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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-02-25

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Time Nick Message
00:02 nolsen joined #minetest-dev
00:07 paramat merging game#871 is trivial
00:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/871 -- Default/mapgen: Remove unnecessary spaces from log decorations by paramat
00:10 Fixer hate water
00:11 nolsen I might lost my messages since my ZNC went offline for some reason, what packages am I missing again?
00:12 paramat merged
00:14 sofar nolsen: zlib-devel?
00:23 nolsen nevermind.
00:23 nolsen #3784 You're welcome.
00:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3784 -- Added dependencies for Fedora systems in README.md by UltimateNate
00:34 nolsen paramat: ^
00:34 paramat ok
00:40 turtleman joined #minetest-dev
00:46 Fixer anyone can confirm this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3665
00:46 DFeniks joined #minetest-dev
00:50 Fixer it is more gameplay issue with drowning
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00:57 everamzah i dunno Fixer, i seem to be able to drown just fine both locally and on just test
00:57 Fixer everamzah, try logining when in water already
00:57 everamzah ok
00:58 everamzah ye weird, this time i went to go into water and i'm not drowning
00:58 everamzah i didn't relog while understand, i went to water and got in -- no bubbles
00:59 everamzah now i'm joining while underwater, still no bubbles
00:59 Fixer lol
00:59 Fixer yeah
00:59 everamzah but, after i die and get in the water
00:59 everamzah i get bubbles
00:59 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
00:59 Fixer everamzah, yes
00:59 Fixer everamzah, or when you eat apple or take damage
00:59 everamzah how bizarre
01:00 everamzah i seem to get bubbles OK locally, even after relog
01:00 Fixer i've reproduced on 0.4.13 too
01:01 everamzah locally i'm on latest git
01:03 everamzah so on just test i see what you describe, but not on minetest git from today
01:03 everamzah weird weird
01:04 Fixer everamzah, try extreme survival minetest, it has recent git server
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01:04 everamzah okie dokie
01:04 everamzah Extreme Survival Minetest City?  (i know he must have a lot of 'em)
01:04 Fixer yes
01:05 Fixer managed to not drown after few tries
01:05 everamzah neat trick tho
01:05 * everamzah begins to suffocate
01:06 Fixer everamzah, it needs several tries with relogins or some other
01:07 everamzah well that's weird, the bubbles showed for a sec, disappeared, the showed again
01:08 everamzah oh air pocket from bones i picked up must've been
01:08 everamzah so i got bubbles on relog of extreme survival
01:09 everamzah still bubbles even on third login.  so far just just test for me that one time.  but i definitely experienced what u described
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01:15 Fixer everamzah, thanks for your help, i will look more into 0.4.13 bubbles
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01:37 everamzah right now i'm just having a wicked time placing nodes with metadata, chests aren't constructing inventory/infotext
01:39 everamzah 99/100 times
02:17 sofar everamzah: the old chest code can be laggy and I've seen it fail, not sure why
02:17 sofar everamzah: you're not using my chest PR, are you?
02:22 everamzah no, and i'm pretty uncertain about the validity of what i just said
02:29 everamzah heh, obsidian glass door inventory image shows two panes, but the door itself is just one fancy frame
02:29 everamzah nice
02:32 everamzah meshnode doors looking pretty good esp now with recent selection/highlighting fix
02:33 everamzah same with glass door, it has a two-pane inventory image and a one-pane appearance.  looks great tho
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03:00 sofar everamzah: thanks
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08:23 sofar rebased and updated #3503, g'night
08:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3503 -- Nodebox: Allow nodeboxes to "connect" by sofar
08:57 celeron55 OldCoder is suggesting that there should be a midway channel between #minetest and #minetest-dev
08:57 celeron55 are there core devs in here that are not on #minetest but would be on such a channel?
09:03 Hijiri thanks to whoever added 0.4.14 milestone
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09:05 celeron55 the channel would be basically for discussion between the core devs, server hosts and modders
09:06 celeron55 i am interested in knowing whether it would just drop dead after a week like most other extra channels related to minetest
09:10 Hijiri I would probably at least eternally idle in the chat
09:10 Hijiri with maybe some activity
09:10 RealBadAngel can be useable sometimes imho
09:14 OldCoder May I add...
09:14 OldCoder the proposed channel would be moderated (+m) with only vetted people granted +v
09:19 celeron55 the point is that, for years, #minetest has had a way too small signal-to-noise ratio to be useful for engine development and this channel (#minetest-dev) has formed its place as a low traffic channel where no modders or hosts feel comfortable in
09:24 OldCoder We are losing too many people due to a feeling of lack of respect. And this channel is not the venue for it.
09:24 OldCoder A +m channel where core devs meet on equal terms with other members of the community, senior or polite members, will help
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09:34 RealBadAngel celeron55, btw, ive managed to get VBO working
09:35 celeron55 i have noticed
09:35 celeron55 it's great if it's true
09:35 RealBadAngel it is, you were close with PA to get it workin, just slight modifications were needed
09:37 RealBadAngel together with other patches its possible to get more than double fps now
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09:55 everamzah what would you call the channel, OldCoder :>
09:56 OldCoder It now exists. C55 RBA and I are there.
09:56 OldCoder #minetest-project
09:56 OldCoder I am working on a forum post and will put it up shortly
09:56 OldCoder C55 points out that it needs as many non-core devs as core devs
09:56 OldCoder Or it may be pointless. We'll see. I'll try to articulate the point in my forum post.
09:57 OldCoder everamzah, ^
09:57 everamzah oh +m channels don't show on /whois?
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10:01 OldCoder everamzah, I didn't know that
10:08 everamzah oh, i was asking you.  i was curious what the channel name was, so I did /whois OldCoder but it only showed #minetest and #minetest-dev
10:08 OldCoder It's been 2 years since i created my other moderated channel (there are 2 total)...
10:09 OldCoder I'd forgotten about this part. Thank you for the input.
10:09 everamzah heh!
10:09 kaeza everamzah, IIRC, /whois only lists channels in common with the other user
10:09 celeron55 all that behavior depends on the IRC network in question
10:09 everamzah oh neat
10:10 celeron55 i don't know what Freenode does, but for example IRCnet lists every channel that isn't +s
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10:46 OldCoder http://minetest.org/proposal.html
10:46 OldCoder everamzah, cheapie, Taoki, Wayward1, Sokomine ^
10:53 Indohmo OldCoder, do you host minetest.org ?
10:53 OldCoder Yes
10:53 OldCoder I'll fix up my forum mirror there when time permits
10:56 Indohmo Hey !
10:56 Indohmo You forgot MinetestForFun p
10:56 Indohmo :p
10:57 OldCoder Indohmo, who hosts it and how old is it? PM, this is not core dev stuff obviously
10:57 Indohmo OldCoder, not very old, September 2014, but hugely active modding community
10:58 Indohmo Also some codes have been many times took without credits
10:58 Indohmo By many mods >:(
10:58 OldCoder PM
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11:05 nrzkt celeron55, minetest-staff ? what is this ?
11:06 nrzkt didn't know about it :)
11:08 kaadmy joined #minetest-dev
11:09 OldCoder nrzkt, it was simply senior people in non core dev areas seeking to coordinate a few things
11:10 OldCoder For example, responses to trolling attacks on the forums or IRC channels
11:20 gregorycu joined #minetest-dev
11:20 gregorycu What's the haps?
11:20 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
11:20 Indohmo gregorycu, this http://minetest.org/proposal.html
11:21 gregorycu wow
11:22 rubenwardy most of the servers are the same
11:22 OldCoder rubenwardy, PM
11:23 gregorycu Who is the author of proposal.html?
11:23 Indohmo OldCoder,
11:23 gregorycu I see
11:25 gregorycu Has minetest-dev got that bad in my absence?
11:26 gregorycu lol... * Safe For Work
11:28 gregorycu "The core devs have, historically, been hostile to non-core dev visitors to their channel. "
11:28 gregorycu Who has this been?
11:29 Indohmo hostile doesn't mean being rude :s
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13:05 celeron55 gregorycu: it doesn't actually matter whether there is hostility or not; what matters is that, were it right or wrong, people have that perception
13:09 gregorycu Well, I was asking about a quote, I wasn't stating it
13:09 gregorycu Stop being hostile
13:17 celeron55 lol what
13:18 celeron55 i'm just stating my views on oldcoder's words
13:19 gregorycu (I'm kidding bro - relax)
13:19 gregorycu I have a strange sense of humour
13:19 celeron55 well... you did get a lol out of me
13:29 sofar joined #minetest-dev
13:29 rubenwardy game#579 #3140
13:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/579 -- Add give_initial_stuff API (and a setting) by rubenwardy
13:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3140 -- Cache some settings by rubenwardy
13:30 rubenwardy soon I might have 0 PRs to maintain, so I can start making more!
13:37 gregorycu cache settings looks good :) less contention
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14:58 est31 joined #minetest-dev
15:03 RealBadAngel est31, hi
15:03 est31 hello
15:04 RealBadAngel so, have you played a bit with vbo?
15:04 est31 not yet
15:05 RealBadAngel aw, cmon, its first thing since long time that massively improves performance... i couldnt wait to give it a try ;)
15:08 RealBadAngel est31, btw, i figured out nice and easy way to group metas in one packet
15:08 nrzkt RealBadAngel, is it fast both for client and server ?
15:09 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/master/src/nodemetadata.h#L73
15:09 RealBadAngel im not restricted with it to hold data for single mapblock :)
15:11 est31 nice
15:11 RealBadAngel and it has all the code i need to prepare a packet
15:11 est31 thats cool code reuse
15:11 est31 I think its even already compressed
15:11 est31 thats even cooler :)
15:12 RealBadAngel problem was the old event processing
15:12 RealBadAngel i already solved that
15:12 RealBadAngel i collect all the metas in a list and then process it at once
15:13 est31 ah no it still needs compression https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/mapblock.cpp#L613
15:13 est31 dont forget to do compression like linked above ^
15:14 RealBadAngel i was compressing single changes before already
15:14 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/Eqh4GGNc
15:14 RealBadAngel this is how sending code looks like atm
15:15 RealBadAngel adding now the packet composition and sending
15:15 est31 can anybody have a look I'd like to merge #3652
15:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3652 -- Update Android depends, -O3 optimization, remove old arm config by MoNTE48
15:15 est31 kahrl, nore ^
15:21 RealBadAngel est31, http://i.imgur.com/V03ruVm.png
15:21 RealBadAngel ~90 individual meta changes here, you can see dumped incoming packet size
15:23 RealBadAngel i think technic will become way more friendly for servers with that
15:26 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/6U6swfP.png
15:26 RealBadAngel no mesh updates, single packet incoming once per second
15:31 paramat joined #minetest-dev
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15:35 paramat what do people think about iniviting gregorycu as a core dev, if he would like to? he has been with us a year and has done good work https://github.com/minetest/min​etest/commits?author=gregorycu
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15:36 paramat ^ celeron55
15:36 celeron55 i had to ask him earlier but he was away
15:36 celeron55 i mean, like a month earlier
15:36 celeron55 now he left IRC again
15:37 rubenwardy_ joined #minetest-dev
15:38 celeron55 i like to discuss things on IRC so these things tend to go nowhere in the case of people who don't use IRC
15:38 nrzkt paramat, i would prefer sofar who contribute a little bit more than gregorycu
15:38 est31 I too would prefer sofar
15:38 celeron55 sofar i have asked and informed of the option
15:39 est31 but he has declined so far :)
15:39 sofar I'm happy getting the extra scrutiny
15:39 est31 said something along the lines of "I dont want to be core dev not yet"
15:39 sofar maybe after this release
15:40 nrzkt sofar, wasn't released yet ?
15:40 nrzkt we should wait for sofar v1.1 then
15:40 sofar I think I'm on sofar 7.3 right now :)
15:40 celeron55 cd sofar; git pull
15:42 nrzkt dont' forget sofar submodules, git submodule update --init
15:44 paramat yes i would like sofar as a core dev too
15:44 paramat eventually
15:44 sofar LOL
15:45 sofar that pause
15:45 rubenwardy I think he could make a good one, however it's a big responsibility and he shouldn't be forced/feel required to do it
15:45 paramat heh
15:45 sofar in all seriousness I have had a really rough period and burying myself into a project is something I want to prevent, or at least keep under control
15:45 celeron55 to me it seems the most responsible people try to avoid being core devs
15:46 paramat ^ wise
15:46 celeron55 which might be a sane choice, but still 8-)
15:46 sofar so that's why I'm giving the release date as a good time frame
15:47 sofar I also have a lot of PRs pending right now, and don't want to see them get merged just cuz my status in the project changes
15:47 sofar not that I suspect that to be a risk
15:47 sofar I may also have to travel more, and my job may change a bit in the coming weeks, etc.
15:48 sofar interesting times
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15:50 celeron55 as a core dev you generally have the option to act as if you weren't a core dev though; which is intentional because i know everybody is just people with their own problems
15:51 paramat good approach and essential for sanity
15:51 sofar sure
15:51 sofar well, I gotta drive the kids to school now ;)
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16:04 RealBadAngel est31, slight problem with NodeMetadataList :( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/src/nodemetadata.cpp#L104
16:04 RealBadAngel it is compressing pos
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16:05 est31 I see
16:05 est31 you can however add a bool param to the method
16:05 est31 and if its true you serialize it as normal pos
16:06 est31 defaults to false
16:07 RealBadAngel that can work
16:14 paramat i might test vbo later, then perhaps it can be merged
16:15 RealBadAngel why are you so afraid of testing it? it wont bite ;)
16:16 paramat i like to use the word 'might' to not pressure myself :)
16:16 RealBadAngel hallelujah! its ALIVE!
16:16 RealBadAngel ive finished meta updates PR :)
16:17 RealBadAngel it works as a charm :)
16:18 everamzah good b/c my chests won't open
16:18 paramat good
16:18 RealBadAngel that was damn tough piece of code
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16:26 paramat can anyome else check the code of #2827 ? I would love this feature
16:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2827 -- Allow overriding the hand by TeTpaAka
16:27 paramat needed for space games
16:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, nice one! now we need some server with techinc and stuff / pokes VanessaE
16:28 VanessaE ow.
16:28 RealBadAngel hehe
16:28 VanessaE my Creative server has it.
16:29 RealBadAngel VanessaE, i just finished improved version of the PR, squashing it now
16:29 Fixer VanessaE, maybe it needs reappl*ing
16:29 VanessaE RealBadAngel: cool.
16:29 Fixer still playing with VBO, no problems so far
16:30 VanessaE I'm not even sure what commit my servers are at, though I think they still have celeron55's farmap code.
16:31 RealBadAngel #3775
16:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3775 -- Send to clients only changed node metadata instead of whole mapblock by RealBadAngel
16:31 RealBadAngel its rdy for testing
16:31 celeron55 VanessaE: lol; i guess regardless of the client side stuff's unfinishedness the server side is solid
16:32 RealBadAngel est31, can you take a look at the code?
16:32 VanessaE celeron55: apparently so :P   could you consider finishing that?
16:33 paramat i hope farmap can be revived after release
16:35 RealBadAngel with commits that boost fps a lot AND the farmap, that could be rather revolutionary release...
16:36 RealBadAngel quite new quality
16:41 sofar paramat: I had no trouble rebasing it, but it didn't compile on windows
16:51 VanessaE bbl
16:51 RealBadAngel ok, lets find out now whats wrong with #3770
16:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3770 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by ShadowNinja
16:55 paramat RBA please could you update #3760 to remove the setting from the simple setting menu?
16:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3760 -- Remove new style water by RealBadAngel
16:55 paramat then i think we can merge it
16:56 paramat (with another +1)
17:00 RealBadAngel paramat, i can remove that setting, but the settings are fucked up anyway
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17:01 RealBadAngel theres no "node_highlighting" setting anymore
17:01 paramat ok hmm
17:01 RealBadAngel so maybe another PR to clean it up?
17:01 est31 probably it was removed in order to make space for the advanced settings menu
17:01 paramat yes
17:02 paramat ok can anyone +1 3760? then another PR to fix simple settings
17:03 rubenwardy #3760
17:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3760 -- Remove new style water by RealBadAngel
17:05 RealBadAngel damn, i tried calinou's one liner script to compile mt, and it broke my libs i think
17:05 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/5TEAtKGR
17:05 RealBadAngel everything compiles but fails to link
17:09 est31 what to do with #3784
17:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3784 -- Added dependencies for Fedora systems in README.md by UltimateNate
17:10 est31 should we extend README.txt to include info for all distros that are out there
17:10 est31 or should we put that info to a wiki and then point README.txt there?
17:10 est31 or should we just merge the PR and care about it if more distros want to get their instructions in
17:16 paramat option 3 for me
17:17 nore est31: option 3 for me too
17:20 sofar I'm fine with just merging.
17:21 sofar now that you have 1 deb based and 1 rpm based distro in there, it's going to be pretty straightforward for almost eveyrone else
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17:32 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3026
17:32 RealBadAngel any idea where i should add those flags?
17:33 RealBadAngel im talking bout compiling the game now
17:35 est31 I think its -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS="-std=cxx89"
17:35 est31 man this leveldb abi change causes breakage everywhere
17:36 est31 or API
17:36 est31 dunno
17:36 RealBadAngel i had everything configured then tried calinou's one liner
17:36 RealBadAngel now cant compile anything
17:36 RealBadAngel damn
17:37 est31 thats what you get if you do sudo make install
17:37 est31 it can work, but it can also fuck up your whole system
17:37 est31 thats why I try to never ever do sudo make install
17:37 sofar autoreconf -vif !
17:38 RealBadAngel how to disable leveldb?
17:39 sfan5 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0
17:39 sfan5 probably
17:41 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
17:44 RealBadAngel here comes the guilty one :P
17:44 RealBadAngel Calinou, after using your script i have that: http://pastebin.com/5TEAtKGR
17:48 Calinou compile without LevelDB support
17:48 Calinou some systems don't like it maybe
17:49 RealBadAngel it was ok until i run your script
17:49 RealBadAngel without leveldb it compiles
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18:26 sfan5 RealBadAngel: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3026 probably caused by the default c++ abi
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19:29 blert regarding mapgen objects heightmap and biomemap... are they always 80x80? And voxelmanip emerged... is it always 112x112x112?
19:48 paramat yes, 80x80 or equal to chosen mapchunk size. and yes 112^3
19:48 paramat or (chosen mapchunk size + 32) ^ 3
19:56 blert thank you
20:05 nore hm, just wondering: would it be worth it modifying mapblock_mesh so that nodeboxes make no faces when not needed?
20:06 nore (for example, bottom face of snow, or side of snow when next to another snow node)
20:06 nore it might slow down it a bit though, but I wonder if the performance increase you would get from it would be worth it
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20:07 nore RealBadAngel: thoughts?
20:08 blert joined #minetest-dev
20:29 paramat so blert the correct answer is no, they sometimes, rarely, vary. some people occasionally use alternative mapchuk sizes so a good mod has to calculate mapchunk size and cope with variation. perhaps chunksize should never have been made an option
20:29 paramat (mapchunk)
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20:43 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Last release: 0.4.13, Aug 20 2015. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
20:44 paramat yes
20:46 nore #3784
20:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3784 -- Added dependencies for Fedora systems in README.md by UltimateNate
20:46 nore est31: yes
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21:02 sofar how does the db actually store the data? 1 entry per 16^3 or 1 per 80^3 ?
21:03 est31 1 per 16^3
21:03 est31 one entry per mapblock
21:03 paramat jumping up 45deg slopes is differernt now, there's a visual 'jump' and the player seems to 'teleport' to the node edges
21:05 paramat yeah mapchunks and 'chunksize' are purely the choice of what volume of mapblocks are generated in one go in bulk, 5^3 seems to be near-optimum
21:09 paramat so i'm concerned about the fix for jumping at node edge changing movement
21:17 paramat it's jerky movement, the smooth and fast running up 45deg slopes is gone
21:17 paramat #3773
21:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3773 -- Can no longer jump upwardly on nodes. Shaky movement on small collision boxes.
21:20 nolsen joined #minetest-dev
21:23 Fixer yeah
21:23 paramat changing view range is much faster and smoother now, so god aut range has gone
21:23 paramat (so good auto)
21:24 est31 I dont think it had any effect
21:24 est31 performance wise
21:24 est31 its easier to change viewing range thats true
21:29 paramat it's possible to jump 3 node gaps now, not sure if it was before
21:31 est31 is it?
21:31 est31 not for me
21:32 nolsen #3716 looks easy, going to work on it.
21:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3716 -- Minetest console (F10) should have DATE/TIME:
21:32 est31 i dont think we need it
21:32 nolsen o
21:33 paramat 3 node gap is jumpable if you are walking, not from stationary
21:36 paramat ah it's sometimes possible from stationary
21:38 nolsen est31: I guess I could try one of the bugs, like #3665
21:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3665 -- Player is not drowning when damage is on
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21:39 est31 yeah thats better :)
21:57 sofar timestamp in the chat would be ok, date is too much
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22:07 nolsen Hm, these bugs appear to not work anymore, the one I mentioned is one of them.
22:08 nolsen and #3664
22:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3664 -- Instant resurection problem
22:46 paramat woo 26 to 39 FPS with VBO PR, 50% increase (singleplayer, Intel Haswell Desktop integrated graphics)
22:49 sofar good
22:49 sofar it worked well for my 3rd gen hd4000 as well
22:49 sofar haven't gotten a hold of a nice sky lake desktop just yet
22:51 Fixer i got 20-30% increase with VBO and much-much bigger with superfl shaders
22:52 Fixer VBO + superfl doubles my fps / AMD/ATI HD6870
22:52 paramat flying over landscape memeory use stabilises at only 1GB
22:53 paramat (memory)
22:56 sofar I should shave the rough edges off my camera mod so we can use it to auto-glide and load terrain
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22:56 sofar without using a keyboard, at any speed you want
22:58 Fixer paramat, same for me with and without vbo
22:58 Fixer i usually expect 1gb usage while walking
23:02 paramat so i'll probably merge this later along with 3140 3760 (spacex webcast in 25min)
23:03 Fixer no issues with VBO for me, played with different setting, for some hours few days already
23:05 Fixer main prise for me is superfl shaders
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23:10 Fixer paramat, i wonder if android has vbo?
23:10 Fixer android mazochists will probably benefit from it
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23:24 paramat bbl
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