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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-02-22

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 nolsen #L377 is more specific
00:00 RealBadAngel movement was choking, after restart it got a bit better
00:00 nolsen and #L392
00:00 nolsen and so on
00:02 RealBadAngel btw, what does "Node highlighting" option do in reanimated simple settings menu?
00:02 Fixer highlights node
00:03 RealBadAngel are you completely sure?
00:03 Fixer hold on
00:03 RealBadAngel iirc theres no such setting in game ;)
00:04 Fixer enable_node_highlighting = true
00:04 Fixer hmm
00:04 RealBadAngel node_highlighting = box/halo ....
00:04 Fixer RealBadAngel, it turns halo thing
00:04 Fixer RealBadAngel, at least in stable 0.4.13
00:05 RealBadAngel so this patch was meant for 0.4.13 stable or what?
00:05 Fixer RealBadAngel, it was push now = fix later iirc
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00:06 Fixer RealBadAngel, simple settings will need fixes
00:06 RealBadAngel built again, only minimal, everything seems fine now
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00:08 Fixer https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/pull/3740/files
00:08 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3740/​files#diff-b61e3e14dbe70423022f4ee065fa3f94R215
00:23 RealBadAngel awww, i forgot that paramat removed normal maps from game
00:24 RealBadAngel no wonders, relief mapping on auto gen is damn slow
00:26 sofar I've found that hand-painting normal maps in blender is likely the best way to do it
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00:26 sofar I'm wondering if there's an easy way to do that for lots of textures
00:27 RealBadAngel im using gimp to paint shapes, filter, blur etc
00:27 RealBadAngel and to process maps AwesomeBump
00:28 RealBadAngel more on the autogen if somebody would know: it was meant to genereate a maps only in case regular map is not supplied
00:29 RealBadAngel having it on to make each and every texture out there is plain dumb
00:30 RealBadAngel not to mention that results of autogenerated one is always way behind good hand made one
00:31 RealBadAngel sofar, there are ways to batch it, but results are not any good imho
00:31 sofar I don't think that's a good solution
00:32 sofar did you ever make a default_normalmaps texture pack with *just* the normalmaps that were in minetest_game?
00:32 RealBadAngel auto gens, batching are just workarounds to get support fast and easy
00:32 RealBadAngel but it wont work nor look any good
00:32 RealBadAngel ofc i did
00:33 RealBadAngel 3 yrs ago?
00:33 RealBadAngel but point is normals are not texture packs stuff
00:34 RealBadAngel texturing in games requires having set of textures for one surface
00:34 RealBadAngel up to several ones
00:34 RealBadAngel normal, height, specular etc
00:35 RealBadAngel you cant call one of them to be a single standalone TEXTURE
00:35 RealBadAngel so treating normals the same way as diffuse ones is wrong
00:37 RealBadAngel its like you wanted to separate alpha channel and put all the alpha channel files in texture pack folder ;)
00:48 sofar no, but the normal maps are a function of the texture
00:54 RealBadAngel ideal would be xcf with layers
00:55 RealBadAngel layer 0 - diffuse, 1 normal,  2 specular and so on
00:55 RealBadAngel single file for all the components
00:57 RealBadAngel i wonder how hard would be to add xcf support
01:00 sofar ImageMagick has an XCF reader module
01:01 sofar you could use their library, even
01:02 RealBadAngel that would be really handy
01:03 RealBadAngel and would solve mess with components once and for all
01:05 RealBadAngel will have to take care of it one day, good TODO point
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02:25 RealBadAngel seems like i do have VBO working quite ok
02:26 RealBadAngel since half an hour ive visited a few servers, started few singleplayer worlds, switching through them
02:26 RealBadAngel without closing client ofc
02:28 RealBadAngel ram usage normal, no crashes
02:28 RealBadAngel fps almost all the time at 60
02:29 RealBadAngel at 240 and shitload of trees too :)
02:30 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/dE3nsJU.png
02:34 kaadmy nice
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03:29 RealBadAngel #3763
03:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3763 -- Mapblock mesh: Allow to use VBO by RealBadAngel
03:29 RealBadAngel who wanna test? :)
03:34 sofar what am I looking for?
03:34 sofar oh hmmm
03:38 RealBadAngel adding screenshots atm
03:38 RealBadAngel still havent closed the client
03:38 RealBadAngel its propably 2 hrs already
03:40 sofar what options do I need to enable to see a difference?
03:40 sofar normal maps?
03:40 sofar bumpmapping?
03:41 RealBadAngel theres option to turn it on in ingame/basic
03:41 RealBadAngel enable_vbo
03:42 RealBadAngel client/graphics/ingame/basic
03:43 sofar so I should see a difference without bumpmapping and parrallax disabled?
03:44 RealBadAngel yeah
03:44 RealBadAngel find a place you had low FPS and check the difference
03:44 RealBadAngel or just increase view range
03:45 RealBadAngel and compare FPS with vbo and without
03:47 RealBadAngel VBO is about storing meshes in VRAM, what effects are you using is not that important
03:47 sofar ohhh
03:47 RealBadAngel well, bumpmapping and parallax have impact, tangent space vertices takes more memory
03:49 RealBadAngel sofar, and?
03:49 RealBadAngel any difference?
03:57 sofar seems fps is stuck at 50-60 with 500+ viewing range for me with vbo enabled
03:57 sofar I have to push it to get it down to 30 :)
03:57 sofar but, I suggest running this against ridic. servers like just test
03:59 RealBadAngel i was there for several time last 2 hours
03:59 RealBadAngel see screenies in PR
04:00 sofar significant improvement
04:00 sofar like, 28fps -> 40+
04:01 RealBadAngel i suggest running top in another window and watch memory usage
04:01 RealBadAngel for me its all the time ~2gig
04:02 RealBadAngel with peaks up to 3 (lotsa blocks loaded)
04:04 sofar 2108virt 1261res
04:05 VanessaE it's a small improvement for me.  for my usual Dreambuilder testing world "benchmark" scene (RealBadAngel knows which one), drawtime was 34-36 before with a view range in the high 90's (that build predated the view range auto-tune removal).  Now it's about 27 at 100m (git HEAD as of now, with RBA's PR)
04:06 VanessaE (so 35 fps now.  used to be less than 30 in this scene before)
04:06 RealBadAngel still a gain
04:07 VanessaE not anywhere near the gains I saw with Pilzadam's original VBO code though.
04:07 VanessaE (and the menu indicates VBO is enabled)
04:08 RealBadAngel its hardly different to PA's code
04:08 RealBadAngel either you set it or not
04:08 * VanessaE shrugs
04:08 VanessaE just reporting my findings.
04:08 RealBadAngel there are other factors that have impact on that
04:09 RealBadAngel like tangent vertices/regular ones
04:09 VanessaE not sure which of those modes I'm set for.
04:09 RealBadAngel check shaders enabled/bump/parallax disabled
04:09 VanessaE shaders are enabled, but no effects.
04:09 RealBadAngel only bumpmapping and parallax can trigger tangent space on
04:09 VanessaE default textures.
04:10 RealBadAngel btw, youre still on open source drivers?
04:10 VanessaE nop
04:11 sofar do you need me to test on my Intel HD GFX system?
04:12 RealBadAngel sofar, sure
04:12 RealBadAngel test what you can
04:12 RealBadAngel just be sure youre using OpenGL
04:12 VanessaE using catalyst drivers, Debian 8.  looks like they're v15.20.3
04:12 sofar of course that's using OpenGL, lol
04:13 RealBadAngel i will have to put there condition, so folks wont try it with DX or software for example ;)
04:15 RealBadAngel VanessaE, only difference to c55/PA patch is how i handle removing hardware buffers
04:15 VanessaE I assumed something like that was in play.  good deal.
04:15 RealBadAngel (and when i demand reuploading to VRAM)
04:16 VanessaE btw, turning off shaders GREATLY increases my FPS.
04:16 VanessaE as in 52-53 (draw time of about 17-18) at 100m on the same scene.
04:16 VanessaE 52-53 FPS that is.
04:16 RealBadAngel i know the reason propably
04:17 RealBadAngel theres a code somwhere to fix that
04:17 VanessaE sounds like you need to enable/apply it then
04:18 RealBadAngel thats gregorycu patch about setting shader uniform variables
04:18 RealBadAngel it has to be reworked and merged ASAP
04:18 VanessaE #3534  ?
04:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3534 -- Replace vector with vector by gregorycu
04:19 RealBadAngel filter closed PR by him
04:19 RealBadAngel something "superfluous" and "shaders"
04:19 VanessaE only one result among closed, #2156
04:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2156 -- Optimise MapBlockMesh functions by gregorycu
04:20 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3​Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Agregorycu
04:21 VanessaE @2320
04:21 VanessaE #2320
04:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2320 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by gregorycu
04:21 RealBadAngel 2309 and 2320. later on rubenwardy tried again with this code
04:21 VanessaE wonder why github didn't find that right away
04:21 RealBadAngel i manually edit filters adding author and "closed"
04:23 RealBadAngel this code does the right thing, but is overengineed
04:23 sofar building on my Intel HD4000
04:23 RealBadAngel factories, templates god knows what else
04:24 RealBadAngel i will have to simplify it
04:24 RealBadAngel good that code doesnt milk cows just by the way
04:24 VanessaE fwiw, if I load up a bunch of map in my viewing direction, and go back to the starting point, the 'benchmark' scene still pulls 30 fps at 190m.  that's pretty good, nearly double what I'm used to there.
04:25 VanessaE er 180m
04:25 VanessaE (specifically, that's about an 80 percent speed boost)
04:28 RealBadAngel thats nice
04:28 VanessaE something I noticed btw:  my setup has abysmal 2d performance outside of MT as well, so anything you can do to eliminate 2d drawing events will help.
04:29 VanessaE (it's noticeable in screensavers, for example.  3d performance outside of MT, including there, is fine)
04:29 RealBadAngel theres not much left
04:30 RealBadAngel VanessaE, how about memory usage?
04:30 VanessaE I didn't look
04:30 kaadmy i get abysmal 3d and 2d rendering
04:30 sofar seems to work fine on Intel HD graphics
04:30 sofar no issues, was entirely playable
04:31 RealBadAngel VanessaE, if something went wrong you propably would notice it then quickly
04:31 RealBadAngel for me client is running for >2hrs
04:31 VanessaE RealBadAngel: right after starting the world, looking in the direction of the usual test scene, 1.5 GB with default textures.  (this is a Dreambuilder world).
04:31 RealBadAngel many server joins, shitload of worlds created etc
04:32 RealBadAngel top says 2,4 gig atm, im on just test
04:34 VanessaE about 2.3 GB after loading up a bunch of map.
04:39 sofar My Intel HD gfx box is sitting at 1.0gb virt 450mb res
04:39 sofar at spawn on just test with viewing range 100
04:40 RealBadAngel how about speed?
04:42 sofar 15-20fps, it slows down as more of the map loads
04:42 sofar it starts at 40
04:42 RealBadAngel intel isnt a speed deamon ;)
04:42 VanessaE that just means your view range is greater than your mapblock load range
04:42 VanessaE (which is also why I try to always mention the drawtime as well as FPS)
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04:42 RealBadAngel set distance to 100-150 and compare then
04:42 sofar this is a 2nd gen Intel HD gfx
04:43 sofar I need to get my hands on a 5th gen
04:43 sofar or 6th :)
04:43 RealBadAngel hehehe
04:44 sofar actually it's a 3rd gen core i7
04:44 sofar I can't keep em apart anymore :)
04:44 sofar I have a 4th gen in my NUC and one at work
04:45 sofar the 6th gen NUCs are coming in the office soon
04:45 VanessaE sofar: now try VE-Creative spawn.
04:45 RealBadAngel VanessaE, VBO wont help there much
04:46 VanessaE or better, "Basic" East City spawn
04:46 RealBadAngel instant reloading of meshes :(
04:46 VanessaE RealBadAngel: eh?
04:46 RealBadAngel #3166
04:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3166 -- Send to clients only changed node metadata instad of whole mapblock by RealBadAngel
04:46 VanessaE oh that
04:46 VanessaE why isn't that merged yet?
04:47 RealBadAngel its not finished
04:47 VanessaE ok.
04:48 RealBadAngel have to finish that asap
04:48 sofar :)
04:48 RealBadAngel fuck the water, thats way more important
04:49 RealBadAngel water being visually fucked up have no impact on performance
04:49 RealBadAngel this does.
04:50 RealBadAngel before i go back to coding renderer i have to fix all those bottlenecks
04:50 RealBadAngel i need ALL the power i can get ;)
04:51 RealBadAngel 2 fps here, 3 fps there and voila, time for water reflections found. for example ;)
04:53 VanessaE I could gain another ~10 fps if I turn off desktop compositing, but I kinda need that (alt-mousewheel zooming, very useful for my bad eyes)
04:54 VanessaE you should look into that, if there's a way to gain those 10 fps without disabling compositing.
04:54 VanessaE (i.e. if there's something MT is doing that invokes the desktop compositing code)
04:54 RealBadAngel i will check that
04:56 VanessaE there was at one time something where the engine was rapidly varying the content of the window decorations, to show FPS, which ironically cost FPS by doing so.  Long since removed, but I wonder if MT is doing other, similar stuff that just isn't easily visible.
04:56 VanessaE but that was literally years ago.
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04:57 sofar RealBadAngel: 30 minutes now and my intel box is still only at 1gb virt minetest ram
04:57 RealBadAngel so it looks like VBO doesnt have memory leaks problems anymore
04:58 VanessaE I'll give it my +1, since it works and appears to not have problems (as if that's of any value :P )
04:58 VanessaE but someone more qualified than me will have to review and give it a real +1
05:09 RealBadAngel btw i do know how to make toggle to full screen
05:10 VanessaE ..and make it behave properly with dual-/triple-head? :)
05:10 RealBadAngel thats quite easy
05:10 VanessaE good
05:10 RealBadAngel you just need to restart irr device
05:10 sofar no issues at VE-basic spawn
05:11 VanessaE sofar: in East City ?
05:11 sofar 1700mb virt mem use now tho! :)
05:11 sofar I don't know
05:11 sofar spawn?
05:11 VanessaE (the oldest of old spawns)
05:11 sofar teleport me there, lol
05:11 sofar I don't know the way
05:11 RealBadAngel problem is that device, driver etc are kept by the functions in the code as member variables
05:11 VanessaE go to the current spawn, use the Travelnet booth near there to get to East City Central
05:11 RealBadAngel that has to change
05:12 RealBadAngel device, driver, scene manager etc have to be global
05:12 VanessaE sofar, on my way..
05:12 sofar found it
05:12 RealBadAngel no hiding stuff in the pockets
05:12 VanessaE I see you already did. :)
05:12 RealBadAngel then we just call the global func to shut irr down, restart it and voila
05:14 VanessaE you sure that would work?
05:14 RealBadAngel sure
05:20 sofar hmm OpenGL 3.0
05:20 sofar can't I get more on Intel HD nowadays?
05:25 sofar still under 2gb ram virt. I think that's enough cooking.
05:32 sofar hmm
05:32 sofar it's stuck shutting down
05:32 VanessaE it does that to me too, sometimes.
05:33 sofar oh, there it goes
05:33 sofar #0  0x00007f84e05bd70d in pthread_join () from /usr/lib/libpthread.so.0
05:33 ShadowBot sofar: Error: Delimiter not found in "HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
05:33 sofar #1  0x000000000057c2a8 in Thread::wait() ()
05:33 sofar #2  0x000000000074f050 in httpfetch_cleanup() ()
05:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome
05:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood
05:34 sofar weird, httpfetch timeout at shutdown?
05:34 sofar anyway, my wife just came home from a 4-day trip
05:34 * sofar afk
05:43 sofar github down? losing 100% packets on "xo.net" route parts :(
05:44 sofar entire west-to-east coast link down for me :(
05:44 VanessaE works for me.
05:44 VanessaE wonder what happened
05:46 sofar frontier seattle - chicago link down
05:47 VanessaE yeah, it's showing up in github's status graphs too as a sudden drop in response time
05:47 VanessaE (== less traffic I guess)
05:48 sofar SEA-ATL link is OK
05:49 sofar heh, it was up 2 packets, now down again
05:49 sofar back now
05:50 sofar anyway, afk
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10:08 RealBadAngel n
10:12 nrzkt m
10:13 Indohmo o
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12:45 Indohmo RealBadAngel, would it be possible to make main_menu music continue while the loading ?
12:46 RealBadAngel idk
12:47 Fixer ._.
12:47 Fixer VanessaE, does your benchmark has technic and stuff?
12:47 Fixer VanessaE, also, maybe you are limited by CPU
12:51 RealBadAngel she has 6 or 8 cores cpu, so rather not
12:51 Fixer hmhmh
12:51 RealBadAngel and the gpu is r9
12:52 Fixer iirc r9 is somewhat slow in linux?
12:52 RealBadAngel looks like so
12:52 Fixer one of the best performance was hd 6870 (that i have btw)
12:52 Fixer bad thing is lack of vulkan support but that way off the charts now anyway
12:53 Fixer RealBadAngel, good place to test VBO is LinuxGaming 2
12:53 Fixer RealBadAngel, in 0.4.12 it was eating 6GB of RAM, 0.4.13 - 2GB
12:54 RealBadAngel for servers env i need to finish that meta thingy, im planning to do that today
12:55 RealBadAngel wont go to sleep but i will finish that damn thing
12:55 Fixer RealBadAngel, RAM usage of client*
12:55 Fixer my build is ready
12:56 Fixer will test vbo as much as i can
12:56 RealBadAngel Fixer, i had client with VBO running for a few hours
12:56 RealBadAngel had no problems with memory usage
12:57 Fixer RealBadAngel, RAM usage is key thing to test (but i have 8Gig anyway), thank ctulhu i've update my PC before 2x devaluation
12:58 Fixer RealBadAngel, don't see VBO thing in minetest.conf.example
12:59 Fixer i see it ingame config, enabled by default
12:59 Fixer ok
13:05 RealBadAngel and?
13:05 Fixer RealBadAngel, mapgen stutters are horrible in singleplayer, while fps can be 30-60 at 240 (30 if huge forest)
13:06 Fixer RealBadAngel, RAM usage in huge forest is 1GB (as before)
13:06 Fixer RealBadAngel, will look much more
13:06 RealBadAngel ok
13:08 RealBadAngel going out, be beack in an hour
13:09 Fixer RealBadAngel, lots of stuttering in mp when loading blocks in j-t not far from spawn
13:23 Fixer RealBadAngel, right now from J-T on my usual config got +20% fps boost, on other configs - up to +35%
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13:47 Fixer RealBadAngel, more testing: 17-35% fps boost at this moment
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14:21 Fixer RealBadAngel, why gain is so large in singleplayer? +80% and more
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14:37 Megaf gain?
14:41 Megaf what do you mean Fixer ?
14:48 Fixer Megaf, fps increased
14:57 paramat !tell hmmmm sheet ore PR in case you're interested https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3762 might merge later
14:57 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
15:01 paramat can anyone +1 #3741 ? code is already reviewed just needs a 2nd +1
15:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3741 -- Mgvalleys: Add Dry Riverbeds by duane-r
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15:07 paramat !tell hmmmm PR for PcgRandom https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3746
15:07 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
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15:12 Indohmo paramat, it seems like you are the only one merging all those PRs :(
15:12 Indohmo oh !
15:13 Indohmo mea culpa, est31 does too :p
15:18 paramat nore sfan5 any comments on removing 'dig up' from cacti for this reason? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/847#issuecomment-187224272
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15:18 paramat will merge game#858 later
15:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/858 -- Door protection fix, and fallback compatibility code for mods. by sofar
15:19 Fixer RealBadAngel, posted in 3763
15:20 kaadmy paramat: can't cactuses be attached nodes?
15:20 kaadmy will that break existing worlds?
15:20 paramat will consider it
15:21 kaadmy oh attached nodes can't be placed on each other
15:21 est31 attached nodes?
15:21 kaadmy yeah
15:21 kaadmy like torches
15:21 est31 wats that
15:21 est31 wallmounted
15:21 est31 ah
15:21 kaadmy they pop into drops when dugbup
15:21 Indohmo is #3739 OK ?
15:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3739 -- Add support for Mumble positional audio by ShadowNinja
15:21 kaadmy or unattached
15:22 est31 last time I checked it was WIP
15:30 Indohmo #2375 ???
15:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2375 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by rubenwardy
15:34 paramat i think RBA may be intending to rework that PR
15:36 Fixer why on earth VBO gives so huge fps boost on singleplayer, but very slight in mp :/
15:37 Fixer well 20-35% is not slight, but singleplayer got much more
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15:51 Indohmo What's new with it ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3208
15:55 Indohmo this*
16:20 RealBadAngel back
16:20 RealBadAngel fixer because of metadata issue
16:21 RealBadAngel servers kills clients with it
16:22 RealBadAngel paramat, yes, i have to rework it, its very important pr
16:24 kaeza_ RealBadAngel: long texture strings also cause lots of FPS problems. I haven't looked too much at the code, but can't the texture be cached somewhere?
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16:25 RealBadAngel kaeza_, textures ARE cached
16:25 kaeza_ long as in signs lib long ;)
16:25 RealBadAngel rotfl
16:25 RealBadAngel dont tell me bout signs lib, please
16:25 RealBadAngel this mod is a diseaster
16:25 RealBadAngel total abuse ^2
16:26 kaeza_ yes it is, but what's the alternative?
16:26 RealBadAngel sooner we will have proper signlike drawtype the sooner we can get rid of this monstrous code
16:27 RealBadAngel alternative is the specialized drawtype
16:27 kaeza_ ^[text:foo would be nice
16:27 RealBadAngel theres no other way
16:27 RealBadAngel maybe i will be able to get that working before .14 release
16:28 kaeza_ uh, maybe sspecial_tiles hack?
16:28 RealBadAngel but that depends on that if i can fix 3166
16:28 RealBadAngel no hacks, please
16:28 RealBadAngel we have suffered from hacks too much already
16:28 RealBadAngel see inventory images
16:29 RealBadAngel either this will be made proper way or none
16:29 kaeza_ well, I mean a special tiles mode like we have animations
16:30 RealBadAngel place where u put texture is not important
16:30 RealBadAngel important is what happens to those textures
16:31 RealBadAngel theyre got stacked on client side, never deleted
16:31 RealBadAngel well, they got deleted. on client shutdown
16:32 RealBadAngel proper signlike means drawtype that will get text, render it to texture on client side, keep the texture as long as its needed
16:33 RealBadAngel on update trash the texture and render new
16:33 RealBadAngel generating textures server side and sending them to clients all the time is SICK
16:34 RealBadAngel that mod shall be blocked long time ago
16:34 VanessaE I keep telling you, RealBadAngel, you can't just make it "signlike"
16:34 VanessaE otherwise you have no yard signs, no hanging signs, etc.
16:35 VanessaE it HAS to be something that can be applied to any node/mesh shape.
16:35 RealBadAngel idk if it "has", one thing i know that signs lib shall not exists at all
16:36 VanessaE yes, it has to be.
16:36 VanessaE any replacement has to be able to be a complete superset.
16:37 VanessaE doesn't matter what else it can do if it can't replace the colors, formatting, sign shapes, etc that are possible with signs_lib
16:37 RealBadAngel engine doesnt have to imitate some sick mod
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16:37 VanessaE in fact, yes it does.
16:37 RealBadAngel engine has to provide proper ways of doing things
16:37 VanessaE you don't replace a de-facto standard with an inferior product and expect the replacement to be well-received.
16:38 RealBadAngel proper drawtype is not a replacement
16:38 RealBadAngel and i wouldnt dare calling total abuse a standard
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16:38 VanessaE it's a standard.
16:39 VanessaE most servers have signs_lib I'm sure by now
16:39 RealBadAngel not from point of view of the engine
16:39 VanessaE the engine doesn't define what is, or isn't standard.  the users do..
16:39 VanessaE (or the server owners, to be more exact)
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16:40 RealBadAngel for start i wil write a generic thing
16:41 RealBadAngel we will see of what its gonna be capable
16:41 RealBadAngel but definitely i wont have in mind one mod coding it
16:42 RealBadAngel and definitely it wont be compatible
16:42 VanessaE then it will fail and no one will use it.
16:43 Indohmo https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3208 ?
16:43 RealBadAngel sorry but i cant code another stuff that i know that will kill performance
16:43 Indohmo Would be better than teleporting the player IMO :p
16:43 VanessaE RealBadAngel: no one said anything about performance-killing.
16:43 nrzkt the more important is to have a good design for signs. signs_lib works but the most != the best in this case
16:44 VanessaE the whole damn point is to let the modder put the text anywhere they want, fitting a specific size/shape of bounding box, and color it in any way they want.
16:44 RealBadAngel thats propably how its gonna work, but forget about ANY compability with signlib
16:45 VanessaE signs_lib can be modified to be compatible with the engine's way of doing things.
16:45 VanessaE the point is, don't lose any features.
16:45 RealBadAngel idk if i can code from start any feature that some mod has
16:45 RealBadAngel that wont be even my goal
16:45 VanessaE what?
16:46 VanessaE what's so complicated about letting a mod specify the size, shape, and position of the text bounding box, and put the text there?  With color and very basic formatting?
16:46 RealBadAngel i dont intend even trying to read signs lib code before i made engine code
16:46 RealBadAngel i know whats have to be done and i will just code it
16:47 est31 gonna push this in 10 minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​a26970cdd4aec995416566cd75dd271c6b485f16
16:47 RealBadAngel if modders were so smart to abuse the engine so much to get those signs, they will propably made even more fancy signs with new code
16:47 est31 nrzkt, it should make android jenkins build again
16:48 RealBadAngel and easier
16:48 RealBadAngel est31, nrzkt can you take a look on VBO pr?
16:48 VanessaE RealBadAngel: again, and again, AND AGAIN!  let the modder specify the size, shape, and position of the text bounding box.  Let the engine put the specified text in that space, with color support.  THAT IS ALL!
16:49 VanessaE jesus fuck man, why are you overcomplicating the problem?!
16:49 RealBadAngel you want the custom meshes
16:49 RealBadAngel i want text to texture
16:49 RealBadAngel thats a difference
16:50 VanessaE of course I want custom meshes.  you want to out text in a fixed position with absolutely no variation.
16:50 VanessaE by doing that you guarantee signs_lib will never be obsoleted.
16:50 VanessaE put*
16:50 RealBadAngel just wait for the PR
16:50 nrzkt est31, cool
16:50 RealBadAngel until then discussion is pure academic
16:51 Jeija For some reason https://git.io/v2f6j seems to break request_insecure_environment for me. Calling print("environment:" .. dump(minetest.request_insecure_environment())) directly from init.lua of a secure.trusted_mod gives me nil. Can someone confirm?
16:52 VanessaE greetz, Jeija.
16:52 Jeija Hi VanessaE
16:53 Indohmo #2852 #2827
16:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2852 -- Make players respect makes_footstep_sound in the object properties by TeTpaAka
16:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2827 -- Allow overriding the hand by TeTpaAka
16:53 Jeija I just compared minetest with the commit and without, and it doesn't work with the commit.
16:53 Jeija Tested both LuaJIT and bundled Lua.
16:55 est31 okay then file a bug
16:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: like I said, if the modder can't write a BRAND NEW MOD that creates an ordinary mesh and places a text box somewhere in that node, then it's not going to work and it's not going to obsolete signs_lib.  plus, it has to obsolete his ^^^^ digiline LCD screens too.
16:56 VanessaE the whole point is that it should be possible to reduce signs_lib to just a collection of custom sign models, letting the engine handle everything else.
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16:57 RealBadAngel est31, nrzkt ive put WIP label on the VBO pr but the code is plain dumb. and it looks like i got rid of the flaws old c55/PA VBO patch
16:57 kaeza okay. back on PC
16:58 RealBadAngel there are no memory leaks, i even had client running for several hours connecting all the time to different servers, creating single player worlds all over
16:58 RealBadAngel without closing the client at all, and memory usage was stable
17:01 nrzkt RealBadAngel, i need to merge all you rprevious commits in my branch before looking at this
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17:02 sofar VanessaE: I'd love to create a new SIGNLIKE nodetype that the client can render text on... it requires irrlicht font rendering so it should all be possible
17:02 sofar VanessaE: picking the font will be the hardest part to get through a PR ;)
17:02 RealBadAngel sofar, i do have renderer ready
17:02 RealBadAngel thats not a problem
17:02 est31 it should work on android
17:02 est31 thats my main concern
17:03 VanessaE sofar: well you could always take signs_lib's font and generate a TTF out of it ;)
17:03 sofar you'd have to make a nodebox + text surface nodetype
17:03 est31 and it should not do "meta set nodedef" not yet
17:03 RealBadAngel est31, it will work on any platform
17:03 sofar I think a nodebox drawtype extension "NDT_TEXT" that has a planar surface for text would do fine
17:04 sofar so you can place the text surface on any part of the nodebox
17:04 RealBadAngel sofar, i want it to be more generic
17:04 VanessaE sofar: that's precisely what I've been saying
17:04 RealBadAngel i want a tile property, text instead of texture
17:05 RealBadAngel so you can put the tile on whatever you want
17:05 RealBadAngel even on imported mesh
17:05 kaeza If you're going the TTF rendering way, please provide a facility to add colored text. That is one of the features loved in signs_lib (along with variable width fonts)
17:06 RealBadAngel so you can put that on any model you want
17:06 sofar RealBadAngel: how do you go from tile to 'this is the surface where you should render the text' ?
17:06 RealBadAngel just define tiles as usual, but instead of giving texture, pass there text
17:06 sofar kaeza: should be trivial to add
17:07 sofar RealBadAngel: but, how to tell it where to draw the text?
17:07 VanessaE sofar: RealBadAngel wants a drawtype that a big solid cube with one side dedicated to text display :P
17:07 VanessaE that's*
17:07 sofar and how do you 'change' the text without changing the tiles? is that even possible?
17:07 RealBadAngel how do you define which face is using which tile?
17:07 RealBadAngel same way
17:07 sofar I don't want cubes
17:08 sofar I want arbitrary faces with text
17:08 RealBadAngel meshes are also using tiles
17:08 sofar yes but how do I place the text on one of the mesh faces?
17:09 VanessaE RealBadAngel: show us a proposed node def table.
17:09 RealBadAngel define uv in blender for example
17:09 VanessaE wat
17:09 sofar I guess I don't see how tiles would work. I am missing some coords that I think are needed
17:09 RealBadAngel on a face where do you want sign text
17:09 RealBadAngel and instead of supplying texture for that face, give there text
17:09 RealBadAngel engine will render it
17:09 sofar I also think that this method should be generic and work for both mesh, nodebox and possibly others
17:10 VanessaE and..um..  how does the mod or user change the text?  you can't change a tile after it's defined.
17:10 sofar ^^
17:10 RealBadAngel thats a whole trick ;)
17:10 VanessaE why isn't the text stored in a metadata item instead?
17:10 sofar that's what I think is the proper solution
17:10 VanessaE what sense is there in storing it in a tile slot, when that tile slot is gonna be needed for node textures anyway?
17:11 sofar Q: is it arbitrary node data? A: yes -> node metadata is the proper storage
17:11 RealBadAngel yes, its gonna be stored in meta
17:11 RealBadAngel but now it simply cant be stored
17:11 VanessaE since when?
17:11 RealBadAngel until i fix it
17:11 RealBadAngel since always
17:11 VanessaE what do you think a default sign (no signs_lib) uses to store the sign text now?
17:12 sofar RealBadAngel: the basics are (1) where does the text go (surface, coords), and (2) what is the text content
17:12 sofar (1) I can see multiple solutions
17:12 RealBadAngel moving shit in a chest deletes whole metas of a mapblock
17:12 VanessaE so what?
17:12 VanessaE we're not talking about that.
17:12 RealBadAngel editing one sign too
17:12 RealBadAngel thats a big problem
17:12 VanessaE that's a bit problem for another discussion
17:12 RealBadAngel all your meta is lost
17:12 sofar implementation problem
17:12 VanessaE big*
17:12 sofar not a concept problem
17:13 VanessaE focus on defining what the damn node can store, where the text goes, and what it looks like
17:13 sofar conceptually node metadata is fine
17:13 RealBadAngel its a valid reason why it cannot be done yet
17:13 sofar RealBadAngel: efficiently
17:13 sofar anyway, tea time
17:13 RealBadAngel imagine whole mapblock of signs regenerating their textures
17:13 VanessaE look, if signs_lib can do it, the engine should be able to do it 100 times better.
17:14 RealBadAngel another diseaster
17:14 RealBadAngel dont remind me signs lib all the time please
17:14 RealBadAngel sings are entities in the first place with it
17:14 VanessaE then stop making this sound like it's gonna be one-colored text on one specific shape and size of node
17:14 RealBadAngel we are not talking about entities anymore
17:15 kaeza beetlesigns_lib, beetlesigns_lib, beetlesigns_lib
17:15 RealBadAngel i just said its gonna be generic, to use on any model
17:15 VanessaE RealBadAngel: then tell us HOW damn it
17:15 RealBadAngel havent mentioned colors even :P
17:15 VanessaE I asked for a node def example
17:16 RealBadAngel how can i give you sample nodedef when theres no code yet? lol
17:16 VanessaE um, because you need a plan?
17:16 sofar RealBadAngel: huh, wait
17:16 kaeza RealBadAngel, it's called a "prototype"
17:16 sofar RealBadAngel: the *client* should render the fonts
17:16 sofar RealBadAngel: why would that be a problem?
17:16 sofar <RealBadAngel> imagine whole mapblock of signs regenerating their textures
17:17 kaeza that is a different issue altogether
17:17 sofar designing the API before the implementation is usually a good exercise
17:17 RealBadAngel sofar, that is exactly what was happening to my renderer
17:18 RealBadAngel whole damn meta is deleted all the time by unrelated stuff
17:18 VanessaE RealBadAngel: stop talking about what the client's doing with metadata right now.  we don't care if opening a triggers some regen somewhere else on the map.
17:18 sofar I'm not saying it's going to be correct, but I think it's better than starting coding without a plan
17:18 VanessaE we care about how the fucking thing is to be coded independently of that
17:18 RealBadAngel for sake of damn backwards compability with clients from 0.3 era
17:18 sofar RealBadAngel: well, implement partial per-node meta updates then ;)
17:18 kaeza also, what I meant previously by "caching" a texture is to store an (incref'd) ITexture* somewhere instead of looking up the texture every damn frame
17:18 VanessaE if opening a chest*
17:18 RealBadAngel sofar, 3166 is the code
17:19 sofar kaeza: text should only be rendered on mesh update, not every frame
17:19 RealBadAngel that effectively fixes the problem
17:19 RealBadAngel i need just to polish the code and make it more effective
17:19 sofar I know, 3166 is a good improvement
17:20 RealBadAngel it works already
17:20 RealBadAngel epixel is using it since half a yr or something like that
17:20 sofar there's quite a few PR's like that
17:20 sofar the list predict one is great too
17:20 sofar can't believe it's just sitting there :(
17:20 RealBadAngel i had no time before to finish it
17:21 kaeza sofar, oh wait, I'm thinking of other stuff
17:21 RealBadAngel and its not that easy
17:21 RealBadAngel but hey, ive fixed many old stuff lately
17:22 RealBadAngel vbo was here for yrs already
17:22 RealBadAngel and now you can play with it
17:26 RealBadAngel sofar, but we can work on the signs together once im done with meta
17:27 RealBadAngel maybe we could get together somethign even more generic
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17:27 RealBadAngel two heads are better than one
17:28 sofar fixes schmixes
17:28 sofar they don't count until they merge :)
17:31 RealBadAngel i think i will start on 3166 today
17:32 RealBadAngel all other stuff is merged, vbo needs shitload of testing to be sure
17:32 RealBadAngel i can spend day or two only on meta stuff
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21:00 paramat game#867 (WIP)
21:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/867 -- Default/mapgen: Make forest clearings larger and more common WIP by paramat
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22:19 paramat game#866
22:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/866 -- Remove dig_up() from cactus. by MT-Modder
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