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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-02-17

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02:38 Hijiri Are the position arguments for formspec elements image and image_button for specifying the upper left corner?
04:23 RealBadAngel Hijiri, all the forsmspec elements coords does match inventory slots grid
04:23 RealBadAngel and that would be upper left corner
04:37 sofar RealBadAngel: uhhh about halo's
04:37 sofar RealBadAngel: if a 0.4.13 client connects to a -git HEAD server...
04:37 sofar RealBadAngel: the halo turns opaque!
04:38 RealBadAngel sofar, nametags....
04:39 RealBadAngel they screw many things. mostly all transparent stuff
04:39 sofar well the thing is
04:39 sofar it messes up all the halos from there on
04:39 sofar even normal node halos remain opaque
04:40 RealBadAngel yes
04:40 RealBadAngel text scene node is bugged in irrlicht
04:40 sofar oh, if the 0.4.13 client disconnects, it's fixed
04:40 RealBadAngel its not like that
04:41 RealBadAngel when nametag appears in the scene transparent things go mad
04:41 RealBadAngel look at water for example
04:41 RealBadAngel how old is the client doesnt matter
04:41 RealBadAngel its yrs old bug
04:42 sofar huh
04:45 RealBadAngel fact that i needed them to be removed from scene was one thing, most important was to fix yrs old issue
04:46 RealBadAngel since we dont have irr embeeded thats the only solution
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04:48 RealBadAngel ok, i will move nametags to camera, the prs are getting overlapping again
04:48 RealBadAngel i dont really care if they will be in hud or camera, place as good as others.
04:49 RealBadAngel and i still havent fixed sky and clouds
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04:54 paramat here's the PR for fixing disappearing world #3724 if others want to look at it, it edits updateDrawList()
04:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3724 -- Clientmap: Define p_nodes_min/max as v3s32 instead of v3s16 by paramat
05:00 kahrl paramat: the code you edited (v3s16 cam_pos_nodes = ...) is not only in updateDrawList but repeated in renderMap
05:00 kahrl I think it needs to be changed there too
05:00 kahrl or better, moved to a separate function
05:01 paramat ah
05:01 paramat thanks
05:07 paramat getBlocksInViewRange() or something
05:11 RealBadAngel paramat, ive changed fog range again, but i think that it should be drawn a bit earlier than before
05:12 sofar paramat: I have an idea you will like
05:12 sofar paramat: related to ABMs
05:12 RealBadAngel the reson is that before blocks were always shown as whole, now you can see even small part of it (look at appearing blocks with lowest possible range)
05:13 sofar paramat: you know how you dislike all the wasteful ABM's firing with low chance to e.g. grow e.g. wheat to full size?
05:13 RealBadAngel so i used now 0.85 of draw range - it was 0.9 before
05:14 RealBadAngel previously ive used 0.7 and that was indeed too much, altough imho it was blending nicely
05:14 paramat RBA i can understand wanting to do that, but i don't think we should because it's effectively less visible stuff, and it's reasonable as it is. i might try it though
05:14 sofar paramat: what if we replaced them with node timers. Just schedule a node timer for each plant with exactly the amount of seconds remaining for that one seedling (plus some random jitter) and the timer will only fire once for growing the seedling
05:15 RealBadAngel paramat, you can try changed one, will push it in a few minutes
05:15 sofar so if you have a field of 100 wheat with 8 stages
05:15 sofar you'd have 700 node timer events total, ever
05:15 sofar with ABM's you'd have 700 / chance ABMs
05:15 RealBadAngel paramat, im removing now some obsolete variables and calculations
05:16 paramat worth considering, est was intending to make ABMs less heavy
05:16 RealBadAngel btw, im wondering whats that:
05:16 RealBadAngel irr::core::vector3df camera_pos =
05:16 RealBadAngel (startMatrix * *translation).getTranslation();
05:16 sofar I'll do a field test
05:16 sofar to see if it's worth
05:17 sofar it also will make plants not all grow at the same time
05:17 kahrl "field" test
05:17 sofar since it'll be dependent on planting time, and not abm rhytm
05:17 kahrl I see what you did there
05:17 sofar kahrl: :)
05:17 RealBadAngel kahrl?
05:17 paramat for example, if 2 ABMs run in a particular second, do they share a single node search?
05:17 RealBadAngel what are those double * ?
05:18 kahrl RealBadAngel: the first is a multiplication, the second a pointer dereference
05:18 sofar paramat: abm's work per block, one search per abm interval per block
05:18 RealBadAngel ah, indeed theres pointer to translation passed
05:18 sofar node timers are different
05:19 RealBadAngel kahrl, so nvm
05:23 RealBadAngel paramat, ok, ive updated camera PR
05:24 RealBadAngel kahrl, paramat, about nametags, im gonna move them to camera as est31 wants to get things going. question is shall toggling hud disable them or not?
05:25 paramat i'll try it later. perhaps fog at 0.9 will improve FPS because less to 'fog-process'?
05:26 RealBadAngel paramat, i havent thought bout that, but i doubt it (at least with shaders enabled no for sure)
05:26 paramat i would be happy with HUD toggling nametags, others may not be, but they should be toggleable
05:26 paramat ok
05:26 RealBadAngel idk how fog is handled by irrlicht (in case of no shaders enabled)
05:27 RealBadAngel i will check it out by disabling fog at all, hold on
05:27 paramat with changed camera clipping, will nametags only be visible within 'view range'?
05:28 RealBadAngel havent checked that yet, those two are overlapping slightly
05:28 paramat that's ok by me, players can use 'R' to view distant nametags
05:29 RealBadAngel currently i think that theyre not distance dependent
05:29 RealBadAngel but i can easily add such clipping
05:29 paramat we have a 'player transfer distance' setting
05:29 RealBadAngel before nametags wasnt clipped at all
05:30 RealBadAngel that setting was used to load entities of far players
05:30 paramat i have little multiplayer experience, but do think it's weird seeing nametags at huge distances by default
05:30 RealBadAngel i can clip them at 2x view distance or some other factor
05:31 paramat it will probably be wanted as an option, which is why 'R' might be the ideal way to control that
05:32 paramat i'd clip at view range by default, makes sense
05:32 RealBadAngel ok
05:32 paramat need input from others though
05:33 RealBadAngel sure
05:33 paramat ^ VanessaE
05:33 RealBadAngel i will add clipping, we can later decide on clipping distance
05:34 RealBadAngel btw, seems that irrlicht fog have some little impact on performance
05:35 RealBadAngel hard to say, it can be a few fps
05:35 paramat nametag clipping should respect 'player transfer distance' for dervers that set that for a reason
05:35 paramat (servers)
05:36 RealBadAngel i will check in code what that variable really means
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06:16 sofar I just noticed that ABM's are continuously firing for things like fully grown cotton and wheat. ouch.
06:23 RealBadAngel last stage should propably have abm removed
06:25 sofar the ABM is group abm
06:25 sofar I'm just dying to make this into node timers
06:25 sofar no more planting a whole field and seeing wheat that's done, and still seeds next to them
06:25 sofar that never made much sense to me
06:26 sofar I also really don't like the "whooops 20 nodes grew exactly at the same second!" effect every 9 seconds
06:27 sofar node timers will make that all a thing of the past
06:27 sofar it will seem entirely random with properly made timers
06:59 RealBadAngel ha!
07:00 RealBadAngel with nametags stored elsewhere (with their world pos) i can add player dots on minimap now
07:01 RealBadAngel cool
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08:20 paramat PR updated #3724
08:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3724 -- Clientmap: Define p_nodes_min/max as v3s32 instead of v3s16 by paramat
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08:25 kilbith paramat, so have you decided for an approx. date for the feature freeze / release ?
08:27 paramat oh yeah, roughly freeze in a month, around spring equinox time
08:29 paramat devs please let me know (leave a comment in this channel, i'll see it) how much time you need to get your work in order. no fixed dates though this has to be flexible
08:30 paramat but if possible aim to get stuff ready in roughly a month
08:30 kilbith blockers shall be identified as well
08:30 paramat yes
08:30 kilbith the settings tab case is one of them for example
08:31 kilbith i'm quite wondering if BlockMen is going to rebase and merge his PR
08:31 RealBadAngel paramat, what about seeing players on minimap?
08:32 paramat and this is a big problem #2759
08:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2759 -- Shadow bug at y = 63 in mgv5/mgv7/mgflat/mgfractal/mgwatershed
08:32 paramat i'll have to look into that but its mysterious
08:33 paramat RBA meh not bothered either way
08:34 paramat i think, is it needed? but then, minimap is not much needed either. it's more a fun thing
08:34 RealBadAngel gonna code it anyway, always wanted to see players there (and mobs in the future)
08:35 paramat careful not to make minimap too complex and slow stuff down
08:35 RealBadAngel fun? i bet many wont agree with you
08:35 RealBadAngel lately ive profiled minimap, its not that slow at all
08:36 RealBadAngel preparing minimap data is small % of time consumed to prepare mapblock mesh
08:37 RealBadAngel more time is spent actually displaying the minimap texture than preparing data for it
08:38 RealBadAngel and adding a few dots on it wont slow it down at all
08:40 paramat good, it may be popular who knows
08:41 RealBadAngel such thing is a common feature of minimaps
08:41 RealBadAngel thats not my invention
08:44 RealBadAngel lookin at mc minimaps now, they do have also one nice feature
08:45 RealBadAngel minimap could show place where you died
08:45 RealBadAngel but that makes sense with bones or item drop on death
08:46 RealBadAngel so such feature should be moddable, maybe later on
08:47 RealBadAngel anyway, ive moved nametags to camera
08:48 RealBadAngel #3712
08:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3712 -- Move object nametags to camera by RealBadAngel
08:49 RealBadAngel can anybody review/vote on it?
08:50 RealBadAngel hmmmm, kahrl, nore, sfan5 ?
09:08 paramat i'll look later today after sleep
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10:46 est31 RealBadAngel, which editor do you use
10:47 RealBadAngel est31, geany, why you askin?
10:48 est31 I wonder whether it has an option to auto remove trailing spaces
10:48 RealBadAngel it has, but then i will modify whole files im touchin
10:49 est31 thats no problem
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10:50 est31 aand he's gone
10:50 est31 :'(
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10:51 RealBadAngel oops, upgrade day on freenode
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10:51 est31 <est31> thats no problem
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10:51 est31 minetest's files have only very few trailing spaces in them
10:51 RealBadAngel ok, i will try how it works
10:51 est31 and even if you encounter a file with many trailing spaces, once they are gone, nobody will add them
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10:51 RealBadAngel meanwhile you propably asking because ive smuggled some again somwhere?
10:52 est31 yes, I've commented on one of your PRs
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10:52 RealBadAngel hehe ok
10:52 est31 btw, I've changed my opinion about whether HUD is a good place for it or not
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10:52 RealBadAngel and?
10:52 est31 I'm fine with it being inside HUD now
10:52 RealBadAngel im gonna kick your ass now ;)
10:52 est31 the important part was that the nametags were drawn last
10:52 est31 so get displayed always
10:52 RealBadAngel you know why?
10:53 est31 lol dont kick too hard or I change my opinion again :)
10:53 RealBadAngel i just moved everything to camera
10:53 est31 hahhhh
10:53 RealBadAngel see pr
10:54 est31 btw on a side note, found another open source repo with age old PRs: https://github.com/geany/geany/pulls
10:54 est31 minetest not the only ones :)
10:54 RealBadAngel ;)
10:54 RealBadAngel so, what we gonna do now?
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10:55 est31 you decide
10:56 RealBadAngel it doesnt really matter, either cases i have to pass to client gamedef something, be it hud or camera
10:57 RealBadAngel where the code lands is in fact cosmetic
10:57 jin_xi are nametags visible when HUD is turned off? that would be an argument for putting it there, but i agree with RBA it does not matter much
10:58 RealBadAngel HUD imho was more suitable because of plain text usage
10:58 RealBadAngel jin_xi, ive made them toggleable together with HUD
10:59 jin_xi which makes sense
10:59 RealBadAngel also im coding atm player markers visible on minimap
11:00 RealBadAngel est31, shall i make it a part of this pr or make another one?
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11:07 est31 RealBadAngel, better done in another PR
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11:08 est31 it would need more development
11:08 est31 e.g. ability to control from server
11:08 RealBadAngel what? showing markers?
11:08 RealBadAngel servers already control minimap
11:09 RealBadAngel if minimap is disabled you wont see markers neither
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11:16 est31 probably true
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11:44 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Last release: 0.4.13, Aug 20 2015. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
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13:41 Megaf Hello everyone.
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14:44 VanessaE paramat, RealBadAngel:  clip/fade nametags at twice the current view range, but clip the player models right at the range.  Makes it easier to follow someone if they keep going in and out of your view range.
14:45 VanessaE game play implication is none, because the user could just hit 'r' to see distant names if they want, but of course doing that costs massive fps
14:45 VanessaE (having one player follow another at running speed is quite common in multiplayer, "come look at this thing I made" etc)
14:45 RealBadAngel player models got clipped with camera PR
14:46 VanessaE good.
14:46 RealBadAngel nametags are separate, and i can clip them at other distance
14:46 VanessaE ^^ just my opinion on the matter, since paramat pinged me
14:47 RealBadAngel atm im preparing 3rd related PR, show players on the minimap
14:47 VanessaE nice idea.
14:47 VanessaE might require a different max minimap range to be useful though
14:48 RealBadAngel with farmap we can think of greater distances
14:48 RealBadAngel what we do have now is rather maximum
14:48 RealBadAngel btw, on the minimap you will be able to see mobs, if you name them ofc
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14:49 VanessaE meh, farmap is probably dead.
14:49 VanessaE celeron55 waited too long to finish and merge it
14:50 RealBadAngel idk, hope not
15:00 nrzkt2 VanessaE, is back ? :p
15:09 VanessaE not really
15:09 VanessaE I'm trying not to comment too much here anymore
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19:16 kaeza hmmmm, https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=14078
19:19 sofar DungeonGen
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21:07 RealBadAngel oke doke
21:07 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/jVNhbeJ.png
21:07 RealBadAngel what do you think about it?
21:11 kaadmy RealBadAngel: what's different?..
21:11 RealBadAngel look closer ;)
21:12 kaadmy at what -_-
21:13 kaadmy minimap waypoints?
21:13 asl97 i think they are players
21:14 kaadmy maybe?
21:14 RealBadAngel yup, they are players :)
21:14 kaadmy nice
21:18 Fixer RealBadAngel, indicators are too big and need other colour I thinki
21:19 kaadmy is there currently a way to have colored chat without mods?
21:19 RealBadAngel playing now with colors in fact
21:19 kaadmy i don't think so
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21:20 asl97 if it stay the same size when zoomed in, it should be small enough
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21:24 Fixer RealBadAngel, try yellow with smaller size
21:24 RealBadAngel lol
21:24 Fixer RealBadAngel, will there be height indicators?
21:25 RealBadAngel https://i.imgur.com/LymdcM5.png
21:25 RealBadAngel i thought bout yellow a minute before you suggested it :)
21:26 Fixer RealBadAngel, brighter yellow
21:26 Fixer seems faint
21:26 Fixer circles should be slower imo
21:27 sofar a color is suggestive, maybe gray or white instead?
21:27 sofar player names are already white
21:28 asl97 if it's configurable, anything is fine for default.
21:31 RealBadAngel its textureable not configureable
21:31 sofar if it's configurable, the default MUST be the most sane option
21:31 sofar don't give me a polka-dot purple default and tell me "go set it to gray"
21:32 RealBadAngel i think that green is the best
21:32 asl97 RealBadAngel: as long as we can change the size and color somehow
21:32 sofar it's a texture, right?
21:32 RealBadAngel asl97, you can put there naked ass if you wish
21:33 sofar so you can provide a texture to override it
21:33 RealBadAngel at HD 4k
21:33 sofar oooo naked ass
21:34 sofar I'll ask VanessaE to make a minetest-HDX texture pack version for it
21:34 sofar we can use RBA's ass
21:34 RealBadAngel no way, my ass is copyrighted :P
21:34 VanessaE that's okay, I don't have good pictures of other peoples' asses anyway, so HDX is out :P
21:34 sofar not if you publically expose it, then anyone can photograph it
21:38 kaadmy RealBadAngel: can the player markers on radar have an arrow pointing in the player's direction?
21:40 RealBadAngel that would be a visual mess
21:40 asl97 it probably be better if the player markers rotate in the player's direction
21:41 RealBadAngel asl97, what do you mean?
21:41 sofar <O    O>
21:41 asl97 instead of a hard coded arrow point the direction, it just rotate the texture
21:42 RealBadAngel excuse me, but what that would show?
21:42 asl97 (ie, the texture would have or be the arrow)
21:42 RealBadAngel direction the other player is lookin?
21:43 asl97 yea, that's what kaadmy is asking about isn't it?
21:44 RealBadAngel i cant see any sense in this
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21:45 kaadmy could the marker be tinted the color of the player's nametag
21:45 RealBadAngel from point of view of minimap is that important which direction object is facing?
21:46 RealBadAngel and in the end you will end up with shitload of invisible markers
21:46 RealBadAngel guys walking on snow will be using white etc
21:47 RealBadAngel too easy to abuse
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21:47 asl97 just make it multi color
21:49 RealBadAngel Fixer, got ya! https://i.imgur.com/oHZWKkO.png
21:51 RealBadAngel green/red seems to be the best one
21:51 asl97 it isn't that important to find out which direction an object is facing but people like fancy stuff
21:51 RealBadAngel red in the future for hostile mobs
21:53 RealBadAngel i really dont think thats a good idea
21:53 RealBadAngel minimap is small, such things would make just a mess
21:53 Fixer RealBadAngel, green is not bad, but circles could be smaller imo
21:54 sofar RealBadAngel: green... grass...
21:55 RealBadAngel if i make them smaller theyre hardly noticeable at 800x600
21:55 sofar do they zoom with zoom level?
21:56 asl97 they shouldn't zoom
21:57 sofar I'm asking, you are opinioning
21:57 RealBadAngel sofar, https://i.imgur.com/IGnWVFe.png
21:58 RealBadAngel no, their size depends only on screen resolution
21:58 sofar damn that rab1 player, all that grass and he's right next to you :)
21:59 Fixer RealBadAngel, found new bug with camera thing
21:59 RealBadAngel Fixer, yes?
22:01 Fixer RealBadAngel, https://i.imgur.com/whY02rk.jpg
22:02 RealBadAngel pretty funny
22:02 Fixer RealBadAngel, turning full range makes it behind as should be
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22:05 RealBadAngel will check it
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22:13 RealBadAngel damn snow nodeboxes
22:13 RealBadAngel you cant even walk under the trees because of them
22:13 RealBadAngel annoying and slowing down game
22:14 RealBadAngel paramat, cant you change that?
22:15 sofar make them lower so player+snow < 2.0 ?
22:16 Fixer sofar, is new doors destructuble by tnt?
22:16 Fixer are*
22:17 RealBadAngel sofar, idk, but that should be changed
22:17 sofar Fixer: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga​me/blob/master/mods/doors/init.lua#L280
22:18 RealBadAngel for sake of performance those nodeboxes shall be removed, also on leaves (here replaced with leaves with snow, like dirt with grass)
22:18 sofar RealBadAngel: fixed = { {-0.5, -0.5, -0.5, 0.5, -0.25, 0.5}, }
22:19 sofar I think we can just lower it, or even make the player just step through
22:19 Fixer RealBadAngel, i love snow nodeboxes, you can walk under tree with shift
22:19 sofar I like that they're visually higher
22:19 sofar but maybe we can lower the collision box so the player visually sinks into it a bit?
22:20 RealBadAngel logical even
22:20 sofar didn't know about the shift trick
22:20 RealBadAngel snow is not that solid surface
22:21 RealBadAngel maybe collion box half the height of nodebox?
22:21 RealBadAngel you will feel that you step on it still
22:21 sofar just low enough so that you can walk in 2.0 height gap
22:21 sofar I think the player model is 1.8
22:21 ElectronLibre joined #minetest-dev
22:22 sofar so the collision box would be -0.3 height instead of -0.25
22:22 sofar you'll "sink" in 0.05
22:24 Fixer sofar, i definetely remember blowing up other people steel doors in 0.4.12, now i can;t even blow up my steel door o_0 wood door is ok though
22:29 RealBadAngel Fixer, for steel doors maybe one would need C4 not tnt? ;)
22:31 sofar I opted for defaulting to protected = protected
22:31 sofar it makes more sense than to allow blowing it up
22:32 sofar I don't see how providing a protection mechanism goes in hand with "oh but tnt blows it up"
22:32 sofar that's something a specialized subgame should do (door wars!)
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22:37 Fixer sofar, i often see flying doors of completely griefed houses, and tnt is good way to get rid of them
22:38 sofar Fixer: that's up to server admins to solve, I believe it shouldn't be the default
23:17 RealBadAngel ok, looks like i do have minimap addition polished
23:17 RealBadAngel need #3712 to go in for it
23:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3712 -- Move object nametags to camera by RealBadAngel
23:18 RealBadAngel without it i cant even make a PR
23:25 Fixer RealBadAngel, so... camera or hud?
23:26 RealBadAngel est31 agreed on hud, ive moved it meanwhile to camera ;)
23:26 sofar LOL
23:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, moving back to hud?
23:28 RealBadAngel it doesnt really matter
23:29 RealBadAngel i dont wanna rewrite it for 3rd time just for sake of moving
23:31 RealBadAngel while in camera it has acess to some its private stuff
23:31 RealBadAngel no need to pass offset for example
23:32 RealBadAngel also i have next PR build on top of it
23:35 RealBadAngel btw, just a thought, imho theres no need to indicate the players height on minimap. that you can easily find out lookin at nametag
23:41 RealBadAngel BUG: http://i.imgur.com/d0SonWH.png
23:42 kaadmy huuh
23:45 Fixer flying bug
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23:52 johnnyjoy joined #minetest-dev
23:58 RealBadAngel player may be dead, but his spirit (selection box) is still standing still ;)

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