Time Nick Message 03:28 Fritigern Earlier today Fixer shared this pic in #minetest: https://i.imgur.com/S3Toxfh.jpg and I think I know what is causing this. I believe that it's the algorithm that creates the rivers. It continues to carve rivers when it hits a lake or ocean, leading to the formation of these walls. 03:30 Fritigern Oh, forgot to mention, it's the Valleys MG 03:34 Fritigern In this pic you can easily trace the river into the ocean: http://imgur.com/hhKANjq 03:34 Fritigern This one is a little harder, but the river follows the coast for a bit : http://imgur.com/KDwObXh 05:38 paramat Fritigern that will be fixed soon see #3635 05:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3635 -- Mgvalleys: fix riverbeds below sea level by duane-r 05:40 paramat hmmmm can i merge #3630 ? it's fairly simple 05:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3630 -- Mgv5/v7/flat/fractal: Move tunnel noise calculation into generateCaves by paramat 05:41 hmmmm maybe rename bool open to something else 05:41 hmmmm that shadows the function open() 05:42 hmmmm instead of having a comment explaining what it is, why not just make the variable descriptive in the first place? 05:42 hmmmm column_is_open 05:45 paramat ok 05:47 paramat i'll do that now 06:07 paramat hmmmm, done. otherwise good? 06:07 Fritigern paramat: Aw... So I did not make some great discovery? Not solved an enigma that has plagued the devs (well, you)? 06:09 paramat thanks anyway 06:10 hmmmm paramat, yeah, looks good 06:11 paramat thanks 06:11 paramat i'll merge it with the mgvalleys fix 06:13 hmmmm huh 06:13 hmmmm how did duane determine that rangelim -> MYMIN(MYMAX(x, y), z)) is the problem? 06:13 hmmmm ohhhh... 06:13 hmmmm you didn't swap the parameters too 06:14 hmmmm rangelim is rangelim(value, minimum, maximum), whereas MYMIN(MYMAX(... is MYMIN(MYMAX(value, maximum), minimum) 06:18 paramat ok i'll delay merging that 06:18 hmmmm it's not a really big deal, I just wanted to point that out 06:19 hmmmm rangelim is potentially more efficient than MYMIN(MYMAX()) but this might not be the case if the compiler optimizer is smart enough 06:25 hmmmm hmmm okay, I actually checked it out and the answer seems to be that, with -O2 on gcc 4.9.2, MYMIN(MYMAX()) beats rangelim() by one instruction. 06:31 paramat interesting. rangelim is nicer code though. so anyway i'll go ahead and merge it for now 06:31 hmmmm check this website out http://gcc.godbolt.org/ 06:32 hmmmm it's actually pretty convenient for doing comparisons like this 06:32 hmmmm http://fpaste.org/317381/14543947/ 06:33 hmmmm you still need to know how to trick the compiler into optimizing the code you want but not removing it 06:34 paramat now merging 06:44 paramat merged 07:51 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1908 07:51 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/817 07:52 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1843 07:53 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2355 07:56 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3208 07:57 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2738 07:59 Calinou this one is an one-liner, should be merged: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1908 07:59 Calinou :p 07:59 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3309 08:00 Calinou maybe with a less drastic value though 08:00 Calinou 60 should be fine 08:00 Obani It's your PR, do it :p 08:01 Obani I'm posting all this for you don't forget it :p 08:17 red-001 game#602 game#667 game#816 08:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/602 -- Add access privilege that allows players to bypass protection. by red-001 08:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/667 -- Add tnt API. by red-001 08:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/816 -- Make TNT faster by using `VoxelManip()` for removing nodes. by red-001 11:21 * sofar now in .nl 15:57 RealBadAngel paramat, http://i.imgur.com/maEUjob.png 15:57 RealBadAngel i think you have messed something with biome blending 16:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, valleys? there were some changes to make it more like in lua version 16:29 RealBadAngel its valleys, yeah 16:29 RealBadAngel but that piece looks like green vomit spreaded around rather than blending 16:29 Fixer lol 16:30 RealBadAngel not to mention a few jungle trees grown on it ;) 16:32 Fixer i've noticed that :} 16:55 red-001 nodeupdate() seems to be some sort of undocumented function 16:55 red-001 what does it do? 16:59 Calinou red-001, it forces a node update around it 16:59 Calinou eg. for liquid flowing 17:00 red-001 It should be documented 17:00 red-001 doesn't "minetest.remove_node" already update nodes? 17:00 RealBadAngel falling.lua line 187 17:01 RealBadAngel its meant for falling nodes like sand 17:01 red-001 should get added to the wiki 17:01 RealBadAngel i dont think so 17:02 RealBadAngel its internal stuff rather 17:02 red-001 minetest game uses it 17:02 red-001 You can't claim your making an engine and do that 17:03 red-001 does remove_node also update nodes? 17:04 RealBadAngel this is ONLY for falling nodes 17:04 RealBadAngel i cant see any reason why anybody would like to use it externally 17:04 red-001 to update a falling node? 17:05 red-001 fire in minetest game uses it 17:05 RealBadAngel for what the heck?? 17:05 red-001 idk 17:05 RealBadAngel if core.get_item_group(n.name, "falling_node") ~= 0 then 17:06 RealBadAngel it cannot work with anything else but falling stuff 17:06 red-001 default is minetest game too 17:06 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/1d8def5c06346aad7f400156be95f50b67ceee48/mods/default/functions.lua#L304 17:07 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/1d8def5c06346aad7f400156be95f50b67ceee48/mods/fire/init.lua#L239 17:07 RealBadAngel ah i see 17:07 RealBadAngel somebody put there check for attached nodes 17:08 RealBadAngel so if you remove stone for example, torch will fall 17:24 RealBadAngel red-001, hmm it looks like it should be documented 18:34 Fixer !tell paramat never seen anything like that -> https://i.imgur.com/VSrqawQ.png 18:34 ShadowBot Fixer: Error: Spurious ">". You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands. 18:35 Fixer !tell paramat never seen anything like that: https://i.imgur.com/VSrqawQ.png 18:35 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K. 18:35 kaadmy lol 18:35 Obani Fixer, 0.o 18:36 Obani weird xD 19:09 paramat RBA's biome blend screenshot is mgv6, blend distance is the same as original mgv6, that effect happens occasionally when biome noise hovers on a threshold, nothing new 19:13 paramat looks like deco schematic doesn't check for air before placing, and we only now notice because we have 2 tree types in a biome 19:14 paramat might work on that 19:21 RealBadAngel paramat, hmm not sure if it was v6 or valleys anymore 19:22 RealBadAngel anyway it doesnt look nice, dont you agree? 19:22 paramat i agree, but we can't change mgv6. all other mapgens have my new 'blobby' blend 19:24 RealBadAngel cant? why? 19:25 est31 nrzkt, somehow the android build bot seems to do weird things 19:26 est31 e.g. fail builds 19:29 paramat the character of mgv6 has to be preserved (not my decision). this dither can be made rarer but at the cost of blend distance being too small 19:29 paramat it will always happen though 19:29 RealBadAngel please dont mess "character" with bugs 19:30 paramat not a bug 19:30 nrzkt est31 do you got link ? 19:30 RealBadAngel if something looks like shit it deserves "bug" label 19:30 est31 nrzkt, https://jenkins.unix-experience.fr/job/minetest-Android-OfficialRepository/2123/ 19:30 est31 (for example) 19:31 paramat mgv6 has always done this, it's an unavoidable side effect of the blend method 19:31 RealBadAngel and i dont care if its design, character or whatever 19:31 RealBadAngel then fix the method 19:31 paramat i'm not opposed to changing it, i don't think i will be allowed :] 19:31 RealBadAngel then force fixing it 19:31 RealBadAngel youre mapgen guy 19:32 paramat ask hmmmm 19:32 paramat .. if it's allowed 19:32 RealBadAngel we dont ask for bugs being allowed to fix, just fix them 19:32 paramat you haven't noticed this in 4 years? 19:33 hmmmm ?? 19:33 hmmmm what's this bug 19:33 RealBadAngel wanted me for example to not fix wielded item glitch because it was for so long here? and propably folks got used to it? ;) 19:34 hmmmm and v6 output can't be changed anymore to preserve reverse compatibility with everybody's v6 maps 19:34 hmmmm if you change v6 output you'll get cut-off map features 19:34 est31 yeah, I think the change is only minimal 19:34 paramat http://i.imgur.com/maEUjob.png RBA has just noticed this 19:34 RealBadAngel better that, than faulty newly generated ones 19:34 est31 and basically nobody used the feature before 19:35 hmmmm what is the problem in that screenshot 19:35 hmmmm this is the expected output 19:35 est31 ahh thats different 19:35 paramat see logs for our conversation 19:35 est31 I've thought it was still the schematic placing thing 19:35 RealBadAngel youre trying to say thats by design? 19:35 paramat yes c55's design 19:36 est31 tbh I dont see anything wrong with it either 19:36 RealBadAngel will i dare to call that design a shit? 19:36 hmmmm what's in that screenshot? i think it looks bad, but it should be expected given the method used to generate it 19:36 RealBadAngel yeah i think i can do that 19:36 RealBadAngel it looks like shit 19:36 hmmmm and? 19:36 hmmmm so you want to change it and break compatibility? 19:37 paramat all of minetest is 'shit' 19:37 RealBadAngel i wont change it, im asking both of you to fix it 19:37 hmmmm closed as not a bug 19:37 est31 ^ 19:37 RealBadAngel because it simply looks like shit 19:38 RealBadAngel and nobody when starting new game with that mapgen will care about story behind it 19:38 RealBadAngel neither will care bout "compability" 19:39 hmmmm that's the story of all your changes RBA 19:39 hmmmm you don't value compatibility. some others do 19:39 RealBadAngel to some degree i do 19:40 paramat RBA your latest post processing screenshots have potential but have too much DOF, human eyes have a very deep DOF especially at mid to large distance, these make things look miniature. anyway DOF is unusable in-game because it assumes the player only looks at the centre of the screen. players need to look at all parts of the screen, any blur will then stress the eyes 19:41 hmmmm it has to be way more subtle 19:41 RealBadAngel paramat, you havent played with my DoF implementation, just saw a few screenshots. so what really can you tell about it? :) 19:41 hmmmm i agree 19:41 hmmmm RBA, your graphical effects are nice, but you really crank them up way too much 19:41 hmmmm for the bumpmapping you might as well have spikes sticking out of the walls 19:42 hmmmm for the DOF you might as well give the user myopia 19:42 RealBadAngel paramat, and DoF is usable in almost all nowadays games, just because you are "ancient" it doesnt mean we cannot have it 19:42 Fixer DOF effect needs to be realistic 19:42 hmmmm for the minimap you might as well downgrade the end user to an Athlon 64 3500+ 19:42 paramat if others use it that's their error 19:42 RealBadAngel i agree it should be finetuned, ofc 19:42 paramat mainstream != good 19:43 RealBadAngel when it will be in fully working state (i mean whole PP) folks will be able to test it widely 19:43 RealBadAngel then we can set it up properly 19:43 Fixer if a human with +1D vision looks at node from 1 meter away, background will be sharp, at 50cm slightly, and much bigger when 20-10cm... 19:43 RealBadAngel all the math needed is here, just need proper settings 19:43 paramat DOF is okay for screenshots though, to focus attention 19:44 hmmmm not only will realistic DOF look nicer, it'll offer better performance too 19:44 hmmmm less pixels needed for sampling 19:44 paramat but effects for screenshots only are a terasology thing 19:44 est31 where are the screenshots everybody is talking about 19:44 RealBadAngel hmmm, it doesnt work that way... 19:45 paramat http://i.imgur.com/ddaR89K.png http://i.imgur.com/2ZihxAn.png 19:45 RealBadAngel you prepare blurred scene, have focused, and depth map 19:45 RealBadAngel and you pick up to show those in focus (sharp) or out of focus (blurred) 19:45 hmmmm in order to blur you need to sample pixels surrounding the currently shaded pixel 19:45 RealBadAngel theres no sampling at all 19:45 paramat my eyes hurt if i don't look at screen centre 19:45 RealBadAngel no 19:46 hmmmm the bigger the blur effect, the larger the blur radius 19:46 hmmmm the larger the blur radius, the more pixels need to be sampled 19:46 RealBadAngel we prepare whole screen blurred 19:46 hmmmm am I wrong..? 19:46 est31 it can be used with oculus VR or something 19:46 RealBadAngel its faster 19:46 est31 there you know the eye pos 19:46 paramat yeah ok with eye-tracking 19:46 est31 and can do the blur based on where you look at 19:46 hmmmm yes, but I'm saying the strength of the blur has a direct impact on performance 19:46 RealBadAngel hmmm, read that piece, it will explain you the method better 19:46 hmmmm this is how the gaussian blur effect works... 19:46 paramat otherwise unusable in-game 19:47 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/XmMNPuk9 19:48 RealBadAngel Tex1 sampler is depth map for the scene, Tex0 is non blurred (original), Render is gausian blurred one 19:49 RealBadAngel hmmm, there are tricks to process whole screen real fast 19:49 hmmmm yes, but you already gaussian blurred the screen 19:49 RealBadAngel yup 19:50 RealBadAngel thats what we do to make things faster 19:50 hmmmm I know the running average trick, but you can't do that with a shader 19:50 exio4 RealBadAngel: do you have a screenshot that'd show bumpmapping + DOF + all the stuff? 19:50 hmmmm since it works on one pixel at a time 19:50 RealBadAngel split kernel into V and H passes and work on lowered resolution 19:50 RealBadAngel this way we have blurred scene in almost no time 19:50 exio4 paramat: "screenshoot mode" setting ? :P 19:51 hmmmm how can you split the shader into working on passes for entire scripts at once? 19:51 RealBadAngel hmmm, hold on 19:51 paramat i would say effects for screenshots only have no place in MT 19:52 RealBadAngel hmmmm, http://pastebin.com/aCiTA0XY 19:52 hmmmm effect chains? 19:52 RealBadAngel hmmmm, yup 19:53 paramat http://i.imgur.com/m6ZuJBS.png cel shading looks good with toony textures 19:53 hmmmm this is an Irrrenderer thing? 19:53 RealBadAngel part of it, irrPP (PostProcessing) 19:53 RealBadAngel it works on quads 19:53 hmmmm video::EPE_BLUR_V_HIGH 19:53 RealBadAngel quad is here a screen 19:53 hmmmm did you even write the shader for DOF or is that included? 19:54 RealBadAngel some shaders were here, some i wrote 19:54 hmmmm i mean the shader for gaussian blur 19:54 hmmmm not dof 19:54 RealBadAngel it was included 19:55 RealBadAngel but thats basic math, splitting gausian kernel into V and H parts to speed up the process 19:55 hmmmm yes i know that, i've done that before 19:55 RealBadAngel also theres a neat trick used 19:55 hmmmm it's just that i wasn't aware you were able to chain entire strips of pixels together into a single operation 19:55 hmmmm in a pixel shader 19:56 RealBadAngel thats whole point of post processing 19:56 Obani paramat, I don't think those effects are "screenshots" effects, even if they intend to make them prettier 19:56 RealBadAngel the whole chain you can see here is blazing fast 19:57 hmmmm hopefully 19:57 RealBadAngel because most of the work is done by GPU 19:57 RealBadAngel not the cpu 19:57 RealBadAngel with everything enabled im still getting 60fps usually 19:58 RealBadAngel only thing to slow it down are damn leaves 19:58 RealBadAngel but that we can make faster by enabling VBO finally 19:58 Fixer_ and fixing stutter /me runs 19:59 paramat Obani i mean DOF is only usable for screenshots 20:00 Obani paramat, I don't think so 20:00 RealBadAngel paramat, youre totally wrong 20:00 RealBadAngel you have to play with it to understand 20:00 paramat what if you want to look at a part of the screen that is blurred? eye strain, trying to focus but not being able to 20:01 RealBadAngel it gives immerse 3d effect to the world 20:01 paramat yes, if looking at screen centre 20:01 RealBadAngel no 20:01 RealBadAngel you have to play with it to understand 20:02 paramat the player needs to be able to look at every part of the screen and see it clearly, this is obvious without playing with it 20:02 RealBadAngel but anyway, i think i may have the ultimate shader for you 20:03 RealBadAngel lemme prepare a screenshot 20:03 paramat ASCII? 20:03 Fixer_ paramat, except when you looking at something very closely 20:03 paramat no, why assume the player's vision is looking at a certain part of the screen? 20:04 paramat without eye-tracking it's unusable 20:05 paramat but yes it's good for screenshots to focus attention on a certain distance 20:06 RealBadAngel paramat, here you go http://i.imgur.com/dToCnLw.png :) 20:06 paramat but terasology is a screenshot game, it promises much but can't deliver fps 20:06 Fixer_ paramat, place a finger near your eye close to it, look at it, ???, blurred background, that's how I vision it working 20:07 RealBadAngel no fancy shmacny shit, just pure geometry :) 20:07 paramat sure, but that assumes you're looking at the finger 20:08 red-001 wow 20:09 red-001 how hard would it be to add cel shading to that a few seconds after loading the game? 20:09 RealBadAngel lets call it "Paramat's spirits shader" and put there option to use it ;) 20:09 paramat heh. that would look good with a super-simple texture pack, 1px 20:09 RealBadAngel cel shader is on the fly effect 20:09 RealBadAngel you need to just turn it on in options nothing more 20:09 red-001 that could looks so cool 20:10 red-001 I mean can it start will the game is running? 20:10 red-001 as in when the world is already loaded? 20:13 RealBadAngel you could, but we do change settings in menu 20:14 RealBadAngel this is shaders stuff, its on the fly 20:14 paramat yes it's realtime per-frame 20:16 Fixer_ paramat, in MT if + looks at anything beyond 1 node, don't blur anything, but if it looks say at wall at 0.3 node distance, with some view of background -> blur the background 20:17 Fixer_ easy and not aggresive 20:17 Fixer_ looking glass will need some workaground though 20:17 Fixer_ at glass* 20:18 RealBadAngel glass is not a problem 20:18 RealBadAngel depth is taken from surface 20:18 RealBadAngel idc if its transparent or not 20:18 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, from surface? o.O 20:18 RealBadAngel we do have depth map of the scene 20:19 RealBadAngel each pixel processed records its depth to form depth map of the scene 20:19 RealBadAngel we store it for later use, in cel, dof, ssao or other shaders 20:20 RealBadAngel we do also have normals map for whole scene 20:20 Fixer_ it is very hard to find any data about average eye hyperfocal distance, but 1 citation is 25cm, focusing less than that will start to produce blur 20:20 RealBadAngel basically what im doing here is not only postprocessing but deferred rendering 20:21 RealBadAngel DOF is caluculated different way 20:21 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, point is... blur background if game crosshair is pointing < 0.3 nodes away from the camera 20:21 RealBadAngel atm focus point is crosshair 20:21 RealBadAngel then +- 10 nodes distance from it 20:21 Fixer_ too large 20:21 RealBadAngel everything else gets blurred 20:22 RealBadAngel further from focus zone, more blur 20:22 Fixer_ that's just wrong, average humans don't view like that %) 20:22 RealBadAngel can be changed 20:22 RealBadAngel terasology was using +-15 20:22 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, you should get blur only if you are looking with crosshair at something that is closer then 0.3 nodes from camera %) 20:23 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/ddaR89K.png 20:24 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, that one is against optic rules, that effect should kick in <0.3 nodes away %) 20:24 RealBadAngel therre no eye tracking, we cannot guess that 20:24 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, determine by crosshair 20:24 RealBadAngel thats what im doing 20:25 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, right, but blur is superstrong 20:25 RealBadAngel as light as it can be 20:25 RealBadAngel fullsized input, 1 pass 20:26 RealBadAngel theres no less blur possible 20:28 RealBadAngel also please do note that blur is not the same for the whole image 20:28 RealBadAngel it gets mixed with sharp image 20:29 RealBadAngel anyway, fine tuning it should be rather easy, theres only a few variables to control the effect 20:30 RealBadAngel once the code is cleaned i will put there explanations what each one is doing and you will be able to play with settings 20:30 RealBadAngel i wont be propably able to finetune this all on my own alone anyway 20:34 Obani Fixer_, a game might not always represent reality 20:34 Obani We're talking about a world made of voxels 20:39 Fixer_ RealBadAngel, that is artistic blur then, nothing close to reality 20:41 kaadmy then it's artistic 20:41 kaadmy is there anything wrong with some people liking the effects? 20:42 Fixer i have problems with blur... usually, some games has such blurs that my rage level goes over the roof 20:43 Fixer big ass graphics, HBAO, HDAO, rays of sun, bla-bla, and now this out of reality shitty blur 20:43 kaadmy aaand so? 20:43 kaadmy these are easily disableable 20:43 Fixer game ruined by blur 20:44 Fixer hope so 20:44 kaadmy what if say, your favorite game ran at 2 fps because the developer dislikes higher framerates? 20:44 Fixer why you asking me >_> 20:45 kaadmy because you're the one that dislikes it? 20:45 Fixer real life blur is even easier to make imho, main thing is start slight blur when focusing at objects closer tha(e)n 0.3 meters 20:46 Fixer 99% of the game you won't anyway %) 20:46 Fritigern Fixer: RealBadAngel already and repeatedly stated that all the effects are highly configurable, so if you don;t like it, change it.in 23:08 red-001 game#708 <-- would it be ok to save the puncher as metadata and if a puncher isn't set to use the current code? 23:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/708 -- The TNT mod does not use obj:punch(), but obj:set_hp() 23:22 RealBadAngel ive just compared super duper DoF shader with bokeh and extra physics 23:22 RealBadAngel (to simplified one with just one blurred image) 23:22 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/TqaS23H.png -> with bokeh 23:22 RealBadAngel and the one im using right now: http://i.imgur.com/wqWkOZq.png 23:23 RealBadAngel which one is nicer? 23:24 Fixer RealBadAngel, 23H one, and is less glitchy on edges 23:24 RealBadAngel sure 23:24 RealBadAngel now look above 23:24 RealBadAngel at FPS 23:24 est31 yeah 23H is better 23:24 Fixer :( 23:25 RealBadAngel now you get it? ;) 23:25 Fixer RealBadAngel, look at cactuses at left 23:26 Fixer RealBadAngel, whatsup with dirt block? 23:26 RealBadAngel small glitch im working on atm 23:27 RealBadAngel bumpmapping and postprocessing shaders are fighting for the materials used somehow, some problem with callbacks 23:35 paramat red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/799#issuecomment-178884402 23:44 paramat RBA i will support these post-processing shaders, despite my issues with in-game DOF 23:46 paramat i'm much more concerned with making vertextangents optional :}