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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-01-25

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Time Nick Message
01:22 * sofar is just surprised nobody challenged his math skills this afternoon
01:25 RealBadAngel yeah? telll me what is the very last digit of PI then ;)
01:27 jomat pi = 3
01:28 sofar RealBadAngel: your password is in pi
01:28 sofar clearly visible
01:28 sofar to all of us
01:32 RealBadAngel sofar, you have removed that inventory cube stuff for lava?
01:35 RealBadAngel but with my patch or without?
01:36 sofar I removed the inventory_cube lines in minetest_game for those nodes, and ran without your patch
01:37 sofar just to see if we can remove those lines from minetest_game already preemtively
01:37 RealBadAngel i see
01:37 RealBadAngel that means that proper cubes could be here long time before but code was not fixed for it
01:37 sofar the darkness I think is due to lava being light-emitting
01:38 sofar normally it would be full lit
01:38 sofar can we make sure that nodes are fully lit in the inventory mesh?
01:38 RealBadAngel idk, on my client it rendered properl
01:39 sofar I'm on nividia/linux
01:39 VanessaE sofar, also check default:glass
01:39 RealBadAngel me too
01:39 sofar VanessaE: as said in the PR, glass was fine (bright, not dark)
01:39 VanessaE ok.  didn't see that.
01:39 sofar obsidian is just... dark anyway
01:39 RealBadAngel but whats the point in fixing things which my patch is makin obsolete?
01:39 sofar VanessaE: well, the picture showed it was fine :)
01:40 sofar just making sure it doesn't break old clients too much
01:40 VanessaE I didn't see the picture :)
01:40 RealBadAngel code which was used to produce that darkened lava is trashed by my PR
01:40 VanessaE (I only tried the code with otherwise unmodified subgames/mods)
01:42 RealBadAngel this picture show only what user will see if will connect with old client to server that runs modified minetest_game
01:42 RealBadAngel server can be old too, it doesnt matter
01:43 RealBadAngel if newer client will join old server user will see flat lava image
01:44 RealBadAngel if game will be modified, then real cube
01:44 RealBadAngel the PR is only side change
01:45 RealBadAngel *client side
01:45 RealBadAngel but mods can support it
01:51 RealBadAngel btw, any comments on performance? does it affect fps or drawtime?
02:02 RealBadAngel sofar, its kinda same situation like with your stone walls, if you will connect to server that has that mod running, with older clients, do you expect to see the walls at all?
02:04 RealBadAngel in such cases theres no backwards compability or fixing things
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02:49 sofar RealBadAngel: nah, I was hoping it would be prettier, but I can live with it
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05:50 Hijiri When I put an item in a custom group, can the associated values be non-numbers, as long as the users of the group aren't expecting numbers?
05:51 Hijiri and have no bad effects, and be able to retrieve them later
05:51 Hijiri I'm guessing you would be able to, since it's just put in the node definition, but I want to be sure
06:03 sofar I wouldn't do that
06:03 sofar why can't you use numbers?
06:04 sofar put them in a custom field then
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07:26 kaeza is there a formal approval process for translations or should I just go ahead and click "accept" on those I deem correct?
07:26 kaeza on Weblate I mean
07:29 kaeza there are 426 untranslated strings for es ;_;
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08:09 sofar I blow up.... https://youtu.be/ug_Wv6_n3YM have a good night!
08:25 Hunterz nice... its better than minecraft tnt
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08:47 Hijiri sofar: ok, that makes sense
08:48 Hijiri I don't know why I wanted my data in a group instead of just the node definition
08:48 Hijiri it didn't even occur to me to put it somewhere else, lol
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09:42 RealBadAngel wtf is that?? http://i.imgur.com/h3zeZOU.png
09:42 everamzah happens often enough.  it's related to the fetching of the public server list
09:42 everamzah doesn't happen if you have that unchecked.
09:43 everamzah i usually do "t t <enter>" three times to remove it hehe
09:55 RealBadAngel no matter the error, but it looks like shit
09:55 RealBadAngel such things should go to console only imho
09:56 RealBadAngel fps dropped to 5fps with that for quite long moment
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10:45 kaeza the rotating wield items are great
10:46 kaeza err, inventory items
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12:34 lezzy nice tabbed inventory guys :D looks like someone liked my idea and used it in the mainstream
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13:09 everamzah craftingpack did it first, i think
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16:29 RealBadAngel hi
16:29 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3612
16:31 RealBadAngel that kind of effect can be done without postprocessing, so here you go
16:32 RealBadAngel it works unlike others per single pixel, so it doesnt need whole rendered image to work on
16:33 RealBadAngel imho it enhances the gameplay a lot, world seen through HDR eyes is quite different ;)
16:35 kaadmy how difficult would SSAO be?
16:36 Calinou what's the point of SSAO when blocks already have AO?
16:36 kaadmy it's postprocessing tho, can mt handle that?
16:36 Calinou good AO, without noise…
16:36 kaadmy Calinou: nodeboxes, meshes, models?
16:36 Calinou "uncharted2tonemap"
16:37 Calinou RealBadAngel, did you extract it straight from disassembly? at least don't state it…
16:37 Calinou it's illegal
16:37 RealBadAngel no
16:37 RealBadAngel its public
16:37 RealBadAngel everybody around is using it, ask google
16:38 RealBadAngel its called like that because author of the algorithm made it for this game
16:38 sofar you still have two unused vars
16:39 RealBadAngel so we do have tonemaps: Reinhard, Uncharted2 etc
16:40 RealBadAngel its like you were using Gausian blur and was afraid to be sued because you have used something made by Gauss
16:42 sofar do I need to compile with ENABLE_TONEMAPPING?
16:42 RealBadAngel no
16:42 RealBadAngel use setting in menu
16:43 sofar ah shaders
16:43 sofar yes, I did that
16:43 sofar having a hard time seeing effect, tho
16:43 RealBadAngel ENABLE_TONEMAPPING is internal shaders flag used when compiling shaders
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16:43 RealBadAngel open two instances of mt, one by one
16:44 RealBadAngel you will see the differences in contrast
16:44 sofar Oh, no
16:44 RealBadAngel dark and bright things are redistributed equally
16:44 sofar I had tonemapping enabled but shaders disabled
16:44 RealBadAngel oops ;)
16:45 RealBadAngel but, explaining is worth shit
16:45 RealBadAngel you HAVE to see it
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16:48 sofar it's... very subtle
16:49 RealBadAngel open two instances side by side
16:49 RealBadAngel and compare
16:49 sofar I did
16:49 RealBadAngel also fly around a bit in valleys mapgen with new effect
16:49 sofar sorry, maybe it would help if you posted some screenshots as well, so people can see what they're supposed to see
16:49 RealBadAngel then go back
16:49 RealBadAngel you will feel something like loosing focus
16:50 RealBadAngel those effects are about percepting the colors
16:50 RealBadAngel it may vary from one to another
16:50 RealBadAngel i find this a huge difference
16:51 RealBadAngel everything gets right contrast, light seems to be spreading further and smoother
16:51 sofar contrast is improved
16:52 sofar that's the one thing I can see
16:53 RealBadAngel thats the main point
16:53 RealBadAngel to see both dart and light things equally good
16:53 RealBadAngel wrr
16:54 RealBadAngel dark and bright
16:54 RealBadAngel anyway, this one is only the one of the possible to come
16:54 RealBadAngel there are several other methods to pick from
16:55 RealBadAngel personally my eyes found it the best one
16:55 Amaz Both your tonemapping and your inventory meshes pulls are awesome RealBadAngel!
16:55 RealBadAngel maybe you will find another better fitting your eyes
16:56 Amaz (I really like the spinning items)
16:56 RealBadAngel but still, i hardly recomend playing with tonemapping for quite a while
16:56 RealBadAngel and return to non modified
16:57 RealBadAngel i can quarantee you will not want to play without it anymore
16:58 RealBadAngel Amaz, thx
16:59 sofar I saw you fixed the meshes being too light, too
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17:16 Amaz A before/after screenshot of the tonemapping: https://i.imgur.com/imE3POs.png (imo, it's soooo much better now!)
17:18 Calinou difference is not really visible
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17:38 RealBadAngel Calinou, ive added some shots to the PR to compare
17:39 sofar Amaz: very, very subtle difference, I can't see them side to side
17:39 RealBadAngel look at the trees in my post
17:40 RealBadAngel top is effect on/bottom off
17:40 sofar I had to overlay the images in gimp and flick in between them to see
17:41 RealBadAngel best to open both screenshots fullsized and toggle between
17:41 Fixer very subtle difference
17:41 RealBadAngel original one is fuzzy
17:41 Fixer what about caves?
17:41 RealBadAngel thats the whole point, everything gets equal contrast
17:42 RealBadAngel theres a series in caves too
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17:43 RealBadAngel also, theres a paramter i used to compensate snow becoming too bright
17:43 RealBadAngel gamma
17:44 red-001 RBA what does #3016 do?
17:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3016 -- [0.4.13-RC] Bumpy Item Textures
17:44 red-001 I mean #3612
17:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3612 -- Filmic HDR tone mapping by RealBadAngel
17:46 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2350 this issue should probably be closed
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17:51 RealBadAngel red-001, see screenshots and preferably just play with the effect on
17:52 RealBadAngel it changes the perception of the world
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17:59 sofar red-001: fyi I sent fixes to mesecons for the new door API.
18:00 Fixer !tell paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2350 this issue should probably be closed
18:00 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K.
18:15 RealBadAngel Fixer, indeed
18:16 RealBadAngel sofar, btw: http://image.slidesharecdn.com/hablejohnuncharted​2hdrlighting-100331075253-phpapp02/95/hable-john-​uncharted2-hdr-lighting-144-728.jpg?cb=1270022334
18:19 RealBadAngel with the last sentence i can argue, its worth a try
18:30 Fixer RealBadAngel, i'm not sure why it changes my life completely it is very-very subtle difference
18:32 RealBadAngel hehe, it changes the feeling
18:33 RealBadAngel for my eyes, without it, mt is just washed out
18:33 RealBadAngel fuzzy
18:33 RealBadAngel hard to focus on details
18:33 Fixer RealBadAngel, feels more balanced
18:34 RealBadAngel exactly
18:35 RealBadAngel i will later on add more filter defined by other folks
18:35 Fixer RealBadAngel, have you noticed slight difference with snow node rendering behind lone water block here? https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/2177790​/12558742/8aa84d7a-c391-11e5-9b10-09c1b5974c18.png
18:35 RealBadAngel ive picked this one first because its seems to be the most popular
18:36 Fixer RealBadAngel, how much is fps decline?
18:36 RealBadAngel doubt if any
18:36 RealBadAngel code is quite simple
18:37 RealBadAngel i cant see any difference with and without
18:37 sofar we should really have a demo/minebench
18:38 sofar fixed seed, fixed settings, start up and run a certain scene and draw frames
18:38 sofar without vblank
18:38 RealBadAngel yeah
18:38 RealBadAngel that would be useful
18:38 sofar RealBadAngel: great idea! when are you making it
18:38 sofar it was your idea...
18:38 RealBadAngel what? the benchmark?
18:39 sofar yes
18:39 RealBadAngel lol
18:39 RealBadAngel good try
18:39 sofar oh come on, nobody would believe me if I would claim to come up with anything new
18:39 Fixer mt does have --benchmark iirc
18:39 sofar everyone knows I steal code ;)
18:40 Calinou Minetest is a terrible benchmark
18:40 Calinou Fixer, no?
18:40 sofar Calinou: not meant to benchmark hardware, meant to test performance difference of patches to minetest
18:41 Fixer minetest --speedtests
18:41 sofar that doesn't render
18:41 RealBadAngel idea is good, but then you will have to face dev who is using freebsd as a gaming platform
18:42 sofar data is always good, and good data is even better
18:42 RealBadAngel long time i was wondering why hmmmm is getting such small framerate
18:42 Fixer hmmm uses freebsd?
18:42 RealBadAngel yeah
18:42 Fixer ._.
18:42 RealBadAngel there are no real drivers for it
18:43 Fixer there are some progress actually
18:43 RealBadAngel some for nvidia, completely nothing for amd
18:43 Calinou the NVIDIA proprietary driver for FreeBSD is the same as the one for Linux
18:43 Calinou it's just updated less often
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18:43 sofar it's not relevant, even
18:43 RealBadAngel i wont discuss it, googling about it is an answer
18:44 sofar there is no way to measure impact of patches right now
18:44 sofar any way is better than none
18:44 RealBadAngel yes
18:44 RealBadAngel for that we could have sample world
18:44 sofar just pick seed 0
18:44 RealBadAngel fixed database with fly around
18:45 RealBadAngel keep it small
18:45 sofar you may want to generate terrain during the test
18:45 RealBadAngel no need for regular world
18:45 sofar but, a fixed world may be good too
18:45 Fixer fixed seed, emerge blocks, wait a little, fly around a little, ???, profit!
18:45 Calinou a regular world should be used, to be close to real-world conditions
18:45 RealBadAngel it can be pre generated
18:45 sofar hmm
18:45 sofar pre-generated is fine
18:45 RealBadAngel that would be even better
18:45 sofar we can test emerge separately easy enough
18:45 RealBadAngel you wont be measuring mapgen or disk
18:46 sofar can we hard-code a demo path?
18:46 RealBadAngel and as a bonus you can use it as main menu background
18:46 sofar speaking of settings, I'd want it to actually use the current settings
18:46 sofar so you can compare setting performance
18:47 sofar it should even be a UI button
18:47 sofar "TEST ME"
18:47 RealBadAngel put there "fps" stamp and if its ok next one "approved"
18:47 RealBadAngel ;)
18:47 sofar click it and a 60 second demo runs, then displays results
18:47 sofar or have it run permanently
18:47 sofar loop, perhaps
18:47 RealBadAngel if running as background? why not
18:47 sofar you don't want a random path
18:48 sofar it should be hardcoded
18:48 RealBadAngel anything could be better than clouds
18:48 RealBadAngel recorded rather
18:48 sofar first things first, a separate demo mode
18:48 RealBadAngel pretty nice fly by
18:48 sofar a simple map can be quite large
18:48 sofar we may want to package it separately
18:49 sofar can we embed a path into the world?
18:49 sofar so that demos can be downloaded separately?
18:49 sofar e.g. map+path embedded?
18:49 sofar load demo file?
18:50 sofar maybe /demos?
18:51 sofar RealBadAngel: right, scenic hill top flyovers, dive through some river valleys, into a cave
18:51 kaadmy hmm
18:52 kaadmy maybe a flyby of the world to-be with the mapgen?
18:52 kaadmy with the current seed?
18:52 sofar RealBadAngel: could be fun adding manually crafted blocks and making buildings and structures to demo what can be done in minetest and to test various node types
18:52 kaadmy would be interesting but hard to implement afaik
18:53 sofar kaadmy: generating is faster than making another way to to "play" it
19:07 Fixer make benchmark subgame ._.
19:11 sofar Fixer: hmmmm, but subgame can't load a predefined map, that still requires the user to 'play game demo with map demo'
19:11 sofar but yes, that is one way to hack it together
19:12 Fixer will be nice to have option to generate map chanks like in game, to test stutters
19:12 sofar to test that, just test the game
19:13 sofar I really want to test frame rate in an environment where I can eliminate mapgen and network issues
19:15 Fixer problem is that mapgen and network issues have big effect on fps :)
19:16 sofar problem is that we can test those already
19:16 sofar but we have no way to test framerate
19:18 Fixer two options: with mapgen and pregenerated
19:18 sofar I'm also convinced that the buggy minetest.after() implementation currently is causing havoc massively everywhere
19:18 sofar but it seems my PR's to fix it are not getting the right review
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19:30 RealBadAngel taklkin bout reviews, what about film filter?
19:42 Calinou what about Instagram filter?
19:42 Calinou turns everything blue-ish
19:42 sofar hahahaha
19:42 sofar do eeeet
19:47 hmmmm btw
19:47 RealBadAngel you may laugh, but with irrpp theres a filter called I See Red
19:47 kaadmy is it called D3D?
19:47 RealBadAngel guess what is it doing ;)
19:48 hmmmm if you're seriously going to make minetest use a deferred shading strategy, check out far cry 2
19:48 hmmmm they used deferred shading and it works o.k. for the most part, if you're fine with indoor and underground areas looking bad and pixelated shadows
19:50 hmmmm i think, ultimately, we're going to need better heuristics of whether or not something is underground/inside
19:50 RealBadAngel hmmm, thats quite easy and almost done
19:50 RealBadAngel see lightbanks
19:50 hmmmm static landscape games can do this rather trivially by allowing the level designers to set a region around what is supposed to be considered indoors
19:51 RealBadAngel night holds everything artificial
19:51 hmmmm the best we can do, though, is somehow optimize a flood fill algorithm to determine if something is indoor/outdiir
19:51 RealBadAngel day - both
19:51 Calinou hmmmm, shadows being pixelated has nothing to do with deferred rendering
19:51 Calinou some forward renders have shit shadows, like Godot's
19:51 hmmmm shadow mapping?
19:51 RealBadAngel 3rd bank is needed that would hold only sun affected areas
19:51 hmmmm shadows being pixelated has to do with the performance tradeoff necessary
19:51 Calinou good shadow mapping (like Variance Shadow Mapping), when blurred + anti-aliasing, will look great
19:52 Calinou it's fully doable on today's mid-end systems
19:52 hmmmm in any case
19:52 RealBadAngel i can blur + fxaa the final result
19:52 RealBadAngel i do have postrpocessing by now
19:52 hmmmm I'm thinking maybe this flood fill I'm talking about would be done on map generation, and the results would be updated per setnode
19:52 hmmmm maybe we can steal a bit from somewhere
19:52 hmmmm node_is_indoor/outdoor
19:53 RealBadAngel hmmmm, baw is using floodfill too
19:53 Calinou FXAA would be nice to have, though SMAA is better
19:53 hmmmm man I don't care what BAW is doing
19:53 hmmmm a few years later, where are they right now?
19:53 RealBadAngel i know but they are using irr
19:53 hmmmm a heavily modified version
19:53 Calinou BAW?
19:53 hmmmm build-a-world
19:53 RealBadAngel they were in similar situation like us
19:54 hmmmm they modified irrlicht.
19:54 hmmmm that is a lot of work you know
19:54 RealBadAngel not really
19:54 hmmmm maintaining a new package?
19:54 hmmmm of our own
19:54 RealBadAngel for per pixel lighting to work i just need that 3rd exclusive for sun(moon) bank to make it all work
19:55 hmmmm what do you mean 3rd exclusive
19:55 RealBadAngel we do have 2
19:55 RealBadAngel night one is torches
19:55 hmmmm you mean you want to add a third light bank?
19:55 RealBadAngel 2nd is sun + torches
19:55 RealBadAngel i NEED one only SUN
19:55 hmmmm I was thinking of getting rid of the concepts of light banks entirely
19:56 RealBadAngel look
19:56 hmmmm I don't see the value in it
19:56 RealBadAngel problem with HW light ray is that its an fucking xray
19:56 RealBadAngel it shines on everything
19:56 RealBadAngel no mater indoor, surface or cave
19:57 hmmmm that doesn't sound quite right
19:57 RealBadAngel tell me how not to shine the caves with sun then
19:57 RealBadAngel above is my idea
19:57 hmmmm look I don't know, but hardware dynamic lights shouldn't do that as long as the overhead mesh is there
19:58 RealBadAngel no
19:58 RealBadAngel it goes through
19:58 hmmmm why
19:58 RealBadAngel thats how it works
19:58 hmmmm i don't buy it
19:58 hmmmm that's not how it's supposed to work
19:58 RealBadAngel hehe
19:59 RealBadAngel believe it or not, but thats how it works
19:59 hmmmm are you continuously changing the light's position or something..?
19:59 RealBadAngel no matter if i do that or not
19:59 hmmmm ehh..
19:59 hmmmm I'm gonna try it myself
20:00 RealBadAngel only thing that counts is the surface normal
20:00 RealBadAngel when you need to stop the ray, you have to do it on your own
20:01 RealBadAngel thats why i wanted lightlevels
20:01 RealBadAngel if i pass them on vertices i can allow lightsource to act (or deny)
20:01 RealBadAngel btw, HW lighting is about using shaders
20:02 RealBadAngel almost all advanced materials are made with shaders
20:02 hmmmm i'm talking about hardware dynamic lights
20:02 RealBadAngel all the calculations are done in shaders
20:03 RealBadAngel irrlicht support those shaders
20:03 hmmmm really
20:03 RealBadAngel if you or anybody turns off shaders in mt, you think irr is not using them?
20:03 hmmmm so irrlicht has a set of default shaders that it uses when you enable a hardware dynamic light
20:03 RealBadAngel what a suprise ;)
20:03 RealBadAngel yes
20:04 RealBadAngel if you decide to use your own you have to do calculations on your own
20:04 RealBadAngel btw, bumpmapping, parallax are native irrlicht materials
20:05 RealBadAngel those shaders are just built in
20:06 RealBadAngel if you let material to be lit by hw light and dont enable mt shaders, built in engine shaders will do that for you
20:06 RealBadAngel if you enable shaders for your materials, you have to do the math
20:07 RealBadAngel and then lightsource becomes just a moving point, and you need just its position
20:07 RealBadAngel i do have all the math in shaders for the long time already
20:08 RealBadAngel what i dont have (working reliably) is when i should let the sun/moon shine in and when i should deny it
20:08 RealBadAngel in fact current system  is ok, until i lit a single torch
20:09 sofar I wish the moon wasn't in the L2 lagrangian point in minetest
20:10 RealBadAngel i can split them, using Fiat Lux.py lib
20:10 RealBadAngel thats no problem
20:10 hmmmm RBA, are you sure that's how dynamic lights work in irrlicht?
20:11 RealBadAngel yes
20:11 RealBadAngel do you need code to test? screenshots?
20:11 hmmmm http://sourceforge.net/p/irrlicht/code/HEAD/tre​e/trunk/source/Irrlicht/COpenGLDriver.cpp#l3023
20:12 RealBadAngel yes
20:12 hmmmm so where is irrlicht's dynamic light shader code?
20:12 RealBadAngel that just is passing light source pos to shaders
20:12 RealBadAngel then you can read pos ambient etc in shaders
20:13 RealBadAngel grep sources
20:13 RealBadAngel shaders are partially compiled
20:13 RealBadAngel similar to assembly
20:13 hmmmm yes but where are they
20:14 RealBadAngel i will find that for you, but gimme half an hour, cooking now :)
20:14 hmmmm really cause i can't find them
20:15 RealBadAngel make that:
20:15 RealBadAngel enable lighting
20:15 RealBadAngel disable final color blend on both
20:15 RealBadAngel cpu and gpu
20:15 hmmmm i think you're talking out of your ass
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20:15 RealBadAngel really?
20:15 hmmmm yeah sorry man
20:15 RealBadAngel i will just upload my branch
20:15 RealBadAngel you will see on your own
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20:27 RealBadAngel hmmm, the code yuo have pasted from irr, is making this possible: https://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/tut​orials/ClockworkCoders/lighting.php
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20:28 RealBadAngel whatever refers to light, like  vec3 L = normalize(gl_LightSource[0].position.xyz - v);
20:28 RealBadAngel vec4 Idiff = gl_FrontLightProduct[0].diffuse * max(dot(N,L), 0.0);
20:28 RealBadAngel is because of the code you have highlighted
20:29 RealBadAngel theres no black hardware magic for lights
20:29 RealBadAngel there are just shaders :P
20:30 RealBadAngel you have set the material, have moving source
20:30 RealBadAngel its coordinates are passed to shaders
20:30 RealBadAngel be it one, or many, they are processed one by one
20:31 RealBadAngel per each pixel
20:31 RealBadAngel or vertex if you like (that would be very similar to our smooth lighting)
20:44 hmmmm like I said; I don't buy it
20:44 hmmmm you have no idea what's going on at the driver level
20:44 hmmmm on AMD cards this is probably true.  on nVidia, probably not so much.
20:44 RealBadAngel https://github.com/Paulus/Irrlicht/blob/1.7/so​urce/Irrlicht/CD3D8ParallaxMapRenderer.cpp#L21
20:44 RealBadAngel shut up and read example
20:45 hmmmm OpenGL is mostly implemented on the silicon with nvidia cards
20:45 RealBadAngel this is parallax shader with lights
20:45 RealBadAngel and i expect you will say sorry at least
20:45 hmmmm yeah, for d3d8
20:46 RealBadAngel https://github.com/Paulus/Irrlicht/blob/1.7/s​ource/Irrlicht/COpenGLParallaxMapRenderer.cpp
20:46 RealBadAngel here you go
20:46 RealBadAngel wheres the "sorry"
20:46 hmmmm nowhere
20:47 hmmmm you're showing me something completely unrelated and telling me it proves your point
20:47 RealBadAngel "# transform the light vector 2 with U, V, W \n"\
20:47 hmmmm yes, lots of fragment shaders transform light
20:47 RealBadAngel do you think what are the lights here?
20:47 RealBadAngel those are your HW lights
20:48 hmmmm maybe if you're using the parllax map renderer
20:48 RealBadAngel shaders are GPU code, your hardware
20:48 RealBadAngel awww, cmon
20:48 RealBadAngel i thought youre smarter
20:48 RealBadAngel go dig for yourself
20:49 RealBadAngel when go back, we can talk again
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20:49 hmmmm so you admit you can't find the thing you were telling me exists
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20:49 hmmmm in other words you were full of bullshit
20:49 hmmmm it's just that nobody else ever calls you out on it
20:49 RealBadAngel you want regular material
20:49 RealBadAngel ok
20:50 hmmmm I don't think it's too farfetched to believe that hardware lights are implemented in the hardware on at least some cards
20:50 hmmmm others, maybe the driver has the shader code
20:51 ssieb hmmmm: are you saying that "lights" are going to be automatically blocked by geometry without the shader having to do anything?
20:51 hmmmm on at least some nvidia cards there really is dedicated hardware light hardware thogh
20:53 RealBadAngel hmmm, why you cant you just enable lights in minetest and see how it works?
20:53 kaadmy hmmmm: afaik no gfx cards support hw lights yet
20:53 hmmmm that's what I'm doing
20:53 RealBadAngel ok
20:53 RealBadAngel nothing better than find things on your own
20:54 kaadmy hmmmm: so you want mt to have  lighting only on nvidia?
20:54 hmmmm huh?
20:54 hmmmm no i said that nvidia probably has support for hardware dynamic lighting right in the silicon, whereas amd cards implement it with a shader built into the driver
20:54 RealBadAngel btw, i do have lighting working flawlessly, with sun/moon cycle
20:55 hmmmm but it certainly does NOT happen at the level of abstraction that rba is saying it does
20:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: link to the code? :P
20:55 RealBadAngel just cant block reliably the ray to not shine interiors or caves
20:55 hmmmm yeah you keep telling us about it, and you told me that you were going to upload it
20:55 hmmmm but where is it
20:56 hmmmm ssieb, yes, isn't that the point of a dynamic light?
20:56 RealBadAngel its a huge mess with shitload of pieces here and here, gimme hour or two and i will upload essential parts to get it working
20:57 VanessaE translation:  <RealBadAngel> I have a lot of polishing to do, expect it in 1-2 weeks
20:57 VanessaE :P
20:57 RealBadAngel now im going to eat with my wife or she is going to kill me
20:57 hmmmm she'll grind you up and stuff you into a kielbasa
20:57 RealBadAngel VanessaE, please dont mark something partially workin as rdy for PR
20:58 RealBadAngel hmmmm, or worse
20:58 VanessaE RealBadAngel: I'm not.  compileable, runnable code or it's all just a bunch of mockups. :)
20:58 RealBadAngel im outta here, be back a bit later
21:08 ssieb hmmmm: I'm pretty sure that there is no triangle intersection code build into the hardware like that...
21:08 ssieb can you show any evidence for it existing?
21:13 ssieb and assuming that information did get created, how would it get passed to the shader?
21:46 RealBadAngel VanessaE, problem is my playground is a mess, theres irrpp, irrrenderer and some other small things merged
21:46 VanessaE yeah yeah sure ;)
21:46 RealBadAngel im trying to get them all to work
21:46 RealBadAngel but
21:46 RealBadAngel ive sent hmmm a pm with steps to reproduce what i was talking about
21:46 RealBadAngel quite simple ones
21:47 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/54W9ABiP
21:49 RealBadAngel this way you will see when you will modify default irrlicht materials by adding own shaders to them, we do disable irrlicht ligthing
21:50 RealBadAngel also, you will notice that every surface is lit, no matter if something is between
21:54 RealBadAngel Re: Build A World - new massive game, using Irrlicht
21:54 RealBadAngel Postby sodandk » Fri May 02, 2014 6:11 pm
21:54 RealBadAngel Hi. The look of the game is a mix of different things. This is my first 3D game, so at start I thought that each light would just be a hardware light and shadows would automatically be shown... but got wiser :-)
21:54 RealBadAngel First of all, hardware light just goes through everything and shadows are not automatic, and neither is AO (Ambient occulusion) , and the game needed thousands of lights... in case of for example a volcano, each blocks is a light block and there are maybe 50.000 lights ...
21:54 RealBadAngel So, instead this is how its done:
21:54 RealBadAngel Each block and the sun can emit light, and a specialized software floodfill fills around with light and shadow and light are applied to the vertices on the go, and also AO is computed on the fly, so basically most of the light is made by software (maybe we move that code to the GPU with OpenCL). DevSH (user here on Irr) has made a number of Shaders for water, reflections, fire, smoke etc. For the player's headlamp and the rotator lights we d
21:54 RealBadAngel o use hardware lights...
21:55 RealBadAngel This is a fast rough simple description of how light is done in BAW. It might change radically later on, but the real challenge is to have 10.000 lights or 100.000 lights in a scene, and still have it running in realtime.
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22:51 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/​minetest.github.io/issues/57
22:51 Calinou :/
23:06 celeron55 eh what
23:06 celeron55 how did that guy find his way there without finding my email address or something first
23:06 celeron55 that's literally the worst place to post that question
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