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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-01-22

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Time Nick Message
00:02 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
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00:15 Fixer !tell paramat on some crazy water bug cases it gives "attempt to index local 'nodedef' (a nil value)
00:15 Fixer "
00:15 ShadowBot Fixer: Error: No closing quotation
00:16 Fixer !tell paramat on some crazy water bug cases it gives "attempt to index local 'nodedef' (a nil value)"
00:16 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K.
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01:12 RealBadAngel oke doke, ive made some more screenies :)
01:12 kaadmy for HDR?
01:12 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/eZD78IV.png http://i.imgur.com/5kU2d5Z.png http://i.imgur.com/1Cc7gwu.png http://i.imgur.com/lpktKDg.png http://i.imgur.com/vmnNOSx.png
01:13 RealBadAngel this time i do have effect chains working
01:14 kaadmy WOW
01:14 kaadmy this is what MT shoulda had years ago
01:14 shadowzone hmm
01:14 RealBadAngel this is bloom with HDR
01:15 shadowzone notbad
01:15 kaadmy nice
01:15 rubenwardy It just looks blurry to me - except the last one, I like that
01:15 kaadmy despite probably not being able to run on my laptop, i like it
01:16 RealBadAngel theres lotsa things to fine tune, i know
01:16 RealBadAngel those are rather lightweight effects
01:16 rubenwardy the last two, I meant
01:16 rubenwardy It looks just weird when the sunset is floating
01:16 kaadmy the 2nd to last looks amazing
01:17 kaadmy yea :(
01:17 rubenwardy Yeah, 2nd to last s the best
01:17 Fixer RealBadAngel, too blurry imo, like after bad sleep
01:18 kaadmy with HDr comes realistic light levels ;)
01:18 kaadmy with the sun about 50x brighter than torches
01:19 rubenwardy This is what I want in Minetest: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=50&t=13758
01:32 RealBadAngel i like how the clouds look like with that
01:33 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/tQx6NDJ.png
01:33 RealBadAngel ive made it sharper now
01:54 kaeza RealBadAngel, is that focal blur?
01:54 kaeza or just the clouds?
01:54 kaeza awesome looking in any case
02:06 frustrat1d my eyes keep trying to focus on the clouds
02:07 frustrat1d the hdr looks pretty sweet
04:28 sofar RealBadAngel: branch? pushed somewhere?
04:28 sofar texture_tear Updated 13 hours ago by RealBadAngel
04:28 sofar hmm
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11:44 RealBadAngel sofar, havent pushed that code yet
11:45 RealBadAngel its far from being finished
11:45 RealBadAngel but i can make a branch for tests
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12:57 paramat will merge game#784 very soon, is trivial
12:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/784 -- Default/mapgen: Remove unused 'mapgen_air' alias by paramat
12:59 VanessaE didn't you JUST add that recently?
12:59 paramat !tell hmmmm how about adding to the liquid queue only the flowing liquids in the lowest node layer of a mapblock, on block load? this might cover most cases of stuck liquids. not adding sources avoids huge amounts of sea being added
12:59 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
13:00 paramat yep, see 2nd comment
13:01 VanessaE hm.. well I guess that's reasonable
13:01 VanessaE but I wouldn't call it "lunar".  better you should make it a mapgen flag, "vacuum" or "noatmosphere" or some such
13:02 VanessaE (calling it "lunar" would seem to preclude making a map of say, Ceres or Pluto :) )
13:03 paramat agreed
13:03 Fixer paramat, i'm playing with liquids ABM, i think you should touch only flowing nodes
13:04 paramat yes my experiments did that
13:04 Fixer paramat, checking lowest node and upper node is sufficient
13:04 paramat but i found ABMs don't always work, it may have to be an engine fix
13:04 Fixer paramat, need to check upper one because there is hanging flowing node glitch
13:05 Fixer paramat, checking only below will still leave ugly flowing water columns
13:05 paramat 'upper one' == top node layer in a block?
13:07 Fixer paramat, i'm checking above flowing liquid and below flowing liquid, like here http://pastebin.com/raw/Fzr4jewg
13:08 * paramat looks
13:08 Fixer paramat, upper one is top most hanging flowing water above which goes air
13:08 Fixer this code is crappy and has bugs
13:08 Fixer index nil value thing
13:09 paramat i see
13:10 Fixer paramat, you should activate flowing liquids that have non-flowing above or below
13:11 Fixer paramat, i made a copy of J-T server world with all kinds of creepy water bugs and experimenting
13:12 paramat cool. yes it seems to be the top or bottom of columns that need updatng
13:12 paramat (needs)
13:12 Fixer paramat, i will post few screenshots now that demonstrate why
13:12 paramat problem is to do that in a reasonable time means a rather heavy ABM
13:13 Fixer paramat, chance 256 and interval 10 is reasonable
13:13 paramat yes, but slow
13:13 Fixer to avoid performance impact
13:14 paramat anyway nevermind, good work keep going
13:15 Fixer paramat, nah, it feels working but has a bug with attempt to index local 'nodedef_below' (a nil value)
13:15 Fixer paramat, too noob to fix it, just experimented with it
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13:16 Fixer paramat, reasons why we need to check uppermost hanging flowing liquid -> https://imgur.com/a/qITQ1
13:16 paramat don't worry about that sometimes 'nodedef' doesn't exist for some reason
13:18 paramat at least your ABM can be used as a mod, even if it isn't added to mtgame
13:19 paramat now merging 784 to game
13:19 Fixer paramat, problem is it exits the game at that error
13:19 Fixer so i need to handle that error
13:19 Fixer but i see other functions below have this and avoid the crash, maybe it is crappy world copy or smth
13:20 Fixer paramat, better to include some activation code in MTG, liquids should flow by default!
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13:23 paramat merged
13:24 paramat i agree, if it can be made reasonably lightweight
13:25 paramat or we could just accept a slow ABM, better than nothing
13:25 Fixer paramat, if you act on flowing only you will avoid a LOT of liquids, then just check if above node or below node is non-liquid and activate somehow
13:25 paramat (slow acting)
13:26 Fixer paramat, 1 node activation per minute is fast enough?
13:27 paramat 'if nodedef and...' might work, it's used in mtgame abms
13:27 paramat yes fast enough
13:28 Fixer maybe
13:28 paramat see grass growing abm in functions lua
13:28 Fixer just this second i see lone water flowing node going down %)
13:30 Fixer found the grass part, ok
13:33 Fixer smth like "if nodedef_above and nodedef_below and (nodedef_below.liquidtype == "none" or nodedef_above.liquidtype == "none") then"
13:35 Fixer !tell paramat negative side effect is ACTION[Server]:  places node default:water_flowing at XXX messages in debug.txt
13:35 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K.
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14:24 Fixer paramat, looks pretty slow acting, causes up to 5fps drop for instant for every 10 sec if heavy processing, but pretty usable, I think it should be fixed in engine and use abm as only last hope
14:25 paramat i agree
14:27 paramat see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/3581#issuecomment-173933401
14:33 Fixer paramat, running it like this http://pastebin.com/raw/YP19SgGt
14:34 paramat ok
14:35 Fixer i go outside, will see how much it goes after 30-60min, hope there will be no index error
14:39 RealBadAngel Fixer, watch out, its cold outside http://i.imgur.com/pSnW5g5.png ;)
14:39 RealBadAngel i think i have it finetuned, what do you think?
14:41 VanessaE RealBadAngel: there's no... "brightness" to the bloom
14:41 VanessaE the image feels "dim"
14:41 RealBadAngel bloom is about blurring
14:42 RealBadAngel whatever is brighter gets a bit blurred
14:43 everamzah will the bloom be adjustable?
14:43 RealBadAngel can be
14:44 RealBadAngel but thats very hard to adjust all the elements
14:44 everamzah a little bloom_setting_here and bloom_setting_there couldn't hurt
14:44 everamzah oh.  oh, i see.  i just remember in quakelive there was a bloom, and the saturation/amount was configurable
14:44 Calinou bloom intensity + resolution (faster bloom on slower PCs, but uglier)
14:44 Calinou everamzah, OpenArena has bloom, Xonotic has… Warsow seems to no longer have it
14:45 Calinou RealBadAngel, bloom is generally additive, screen, or soft light.
14:45 Calinou you can darken the whole scene as compensation, this is what Xonotic does by default.
14:45 Calinou (15% darkening of the screen, and bloom is added afterwards)
14:46 Fixer RealBadAngel, just -6C and tons of snow
14:46 everamzah very interesting.  i'll have to resist the temptation to load any of those three up
14:46 VanessaE we got 14cm of new snowfall this morning.  more on the way.
14:46 Calinou no snow here yet
14:47 VanessaE RealBadAngel: so yeah, looking at this it feels like you're blurring the darker areas also, or your bright-to-bloom threshold is too low
14:47 Fixer paramat, what is funny with those flowing liquid columns from game server, is they seem to unstuck after update -> go down a lot -> stop -> ABM pokes it again and it finally goes down
14:49 RealBadAngel VanessaE, im quite sure i dont blur dark areas at all
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14:49 VanessaE well it looks like it :)
14:49 VanessaE the whole image feels dark and blurry
14:51 RealBadAngel http://imgur.com/a/kSmqV
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14:51 RealBadAngel here you have final effect, non processed, and bloom prepass
14:51 VanessaE why is it so dim compared to plain white on e.g. my text editor background?
14:51 Fixer to be honest: i hate any blur in any games, I turn it off, i do like real HDR though
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14:53 RealBadAngel VanessaE, its postprocessed with Uncharted 2 film tone mapping
14:54 RealBadAngel its not supposed to look like text editor but real scene
14:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: http://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/m​inetest/screenshots/random/Untitled.png
14:55 VanessaE notice how bright #ffffff is compared to your image
14:55 VanessaE you're not even coming *close* to the max brightness here
14:55 VanessaE that's what bloom should do
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14:56 RealBadAngel i can play with white level a bit
14:56 VanessaE it's blur + add on top of original + max out the brightness of the brightest stuff
14:56 VanessaE (I drew the black outline around the top/right/bottom of the white zone to differentiate it from the browser's background)
14:56 RealBadAngel i have lowered it to actually see something on snow surface
14:57 RealBadAngel if i max it out to get your text editor level you propably wont see anything on snow but white plane
14:57 Calinou DoF would be appreciable as well.
14:57 VanessaE RealBadAngel: that's the whole point
14:57 Calinou some Minecraft mods did it as early as January 2011
14:57 VanessaE bloom makes bright stuff so bright that it loses detail at the peaks
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14:58 everamzah my new goal in life is to learn enough c++ to add +zoom to my new favorite game
14:58 Calinou Zoom++
14:59 everamzah heck ya!
14:59 Dragonop Haha
14:59 Calinou motion blur would be nice too. but do it well
14:59 Calinou this does it well: https://github.com/RobertBeckebans/RBDOOM-3-BFG
15:00 VanessaE RealBadAngel: actually I think what's spoiling the effect is that there's clearly a shadow or dimming around the edges of the nodes, probably part of the engine's normal lighting.  you have to override that.
15:01 RealBadAngel thats current lighting system
15:01 VanessaE strike that, no it isn't.
15:01 VanessaE I just realized, you have a "normal" image there below the bloom one
15:01 VanessaE there's no shadowing along the edges
15:02 VanessaE which means you're not doing purely additive.  this is more like hard-light
15:03 VanessaE like the sides of the blocks are dimming the edges of the tops, when it's the tops that should be bleeding over onto the previously dark sides
15:04 RealBadAngel vec4 color = srgbToLinear(texture2D(Render, uv)) + srgbToLinear(texture2D(Tex0, uv));
15:04 RealBadAngel it is additive
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15:05 RealBadAngel but thats barely visible
15:05 paramat i like bloom, but i can't judge these screenshots because it's mixed with another effect that changes the colour of the sky
15:06 RealBadAngel paramat, bloom doesnt make any sense without HDR
15:07 RealBadAngel even more, using bloom is questionable rather than HDR
15:07 paramat the snow seems greener and is slightly darker, however the bloom is quite nice
15:08 paramat sky is greener
15:10 paramat it would be interesting to see just a subtle bloom added to that snowy scene
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15:11 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/RmUnvCf.png
15:12 RealBadAngel raised gamma a bit and changed exposure
15:13 red-001 wow
15:13 red-001 I guess that needs a good GPU?
15:14 RealBadAngel not really
15:14 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/8WzrelC.png
15:15 RealBadAngel you can see bloom on torches
15:15 Calinou what prevents Minetest from getting HDR?
15:15 Calinou RealBadAngel, make the bloom a bit blurrier?
15:15 RealBadAngel its blurried 5 times already
15:15 red-001 RBA how much vram do you need for things like this?
15:16 RealBadAngel i need some other method for single pass
15:16 Taoki RealBadAngel: Holy s**t, yes! Thank you :D
15:16 RealBadAngel red-001, thats posprocessing, ammount of vram doesnt count here
15:16 paramat torch looks good
15:16 RealBadAngel youre working on single texture at the time
15:17 Taoki The only problem I see (first of the two last screenshots) is that the bloom on that snow is darkened and looks weird. It should be white rather than gray.
15:17 red-001 paramat how is opening a .md harder the opening a .txt?
15:17 RealBadAngel well, in case of bloom on two textures
15:17 Calinou red-001, Windows users…
15:17 Taoki But certainly it's an early stage, it does in essence look like it's going great!
15:17 * red-001 sees .lua
15:17 Calinou users don't have to open .lua files
15:17 Fixer could developers review and merge this trivial but very needed rendering fix? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3594
15:17 Calinou however they might want to read the README
15:17 RealBadAngel that will show what it can really do when we will have real lighting
15:17 paramat yeah i can see why a little HDR is needed with bloom
15:18 red-001 Calinou I'm talking about game_api.txt
15:18 Calinou https://lut.im/8yrgRTiFJz/pzWj6Mg6OANQHaik.png
15:18 Calinou https://lut.im/wb859SqxQH/11QxMhXhoH0Gypzm.png
15:18 Calinou awesome, lut.im has a feature to copy all "view" links to clipboard!
15:18 RealBadAngel atm im only postprocessing the images in fact
15:18 Calinou OpenArena with/without tweaked bloom (increased resolution to 512, reduced intensity to 0.6 from 1.3)
15:18 Calinou also, note that OpenArena saturates the bloom layer
15:18 Calinou (oversaturates, in fact)
15:19 paramat red, erm maybe it's just as easy, i could be wrong there
15:19 Taoki RealBadAngel: I think that's the correct approach. Post-processing is meant to be done on the final 2D image. Although, in some cases (like deferred rendering), there can be multiple layers and images to do it on.
15:19 red-001 It is for me
15:19 Calinou >2016 >not using deferred rendering :(
15:19 Calinou (like 85% of FLOSS games, to be frank)
15:19 Taoki Erm... some post-processing at least. For instance, Depth of Field requires depth information, in order to know where to blur. But that's done by using the Z-buffer.
15:20 RealBadAngel Calinou, i do have the renderer merged already\
15:20 Taoki It is 2D at the end of the day however.
15:20 RealBadAngel i just need to learn how to use it
15:20 red-001 I already have to open .lua and .cpp as text
15:21 RealBadAngel atm ive make postprocessing working
15:21 RealBadAngel *made
15:21 RealBadAngel it was a bit easier task ;)
15:21 Taoki Yep. Can't wait for that to be in master, please! :D
15:21 Calinou red-001, but most users don't, and don't know how to assign .md files to the notepad
15:21 Calinou (even though it's pretty easy…)
15:23 red-001 users don't open api docs
15:23 red-001 modders do
15:23 red-001 and they also open .lua files
15:24 RealBadAngel anyway, all those light levels, gamma, exposure, and shitload of other parameters have to be chosen during some tests
15:24 red-001 you could always compile the markdown to html for release
15:24 RealBadAngel and propably each one will have different taste and idea how to adjust them lol
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15:27 Taoki RealBadAngel: If you can, please... try to make Bloom and HDR have the same overall look and feel as this:
15:27 Taoki http://blog.movingblocks.net/wp-content/upl​oads/Terasology-130630003731-3840x2160.jpg
15:27 Taoki http://www.bigplasticfork.co​m/Images/Misc/terasology.jpg
15:27 Taoki http://www.lgdb.org/sites/default​/files/node_images/4879/6570.jpg
15:27 Taoki I've been kinda dreaming of the day when Minetest will look like Terasology. Those warm and colorful tones are amazing!
15:28 RealBadAngel for that we need lights, linear
15:28 Taoki Ah. Yes... Terasology uses dynamic lighting already.
15:29 Taoki Still, the same color tones and bloom levels should be achievable before that.
15:29 Taoki It's mostly to do with color correction and tweaking the brightness.
15:30 red-001 how do you make github create a git patch?
15:30 red-001 I want to test some PRs
15:31 Taoki BTW: Minetest already has some color correction for sun and moon colors, did for as long as I can remember (also SSAO for light level calculation). They could however maybe use some tweaking?
15:31 Taoki Ideally, sun and moon color correction would be made dependent on the tonemap, with strength adjustable as a setting. I didn't think until now that tonemaps don't work with it yet :o
15:32 paramat VanessaE or anyone, can anyone remember why lua_api.txt is kept as a .txt file and not changed to .md?
15:32 VanessaE idk why it's still txt
15:33 paramat ok sorry. i have a vague memory c55 requested it
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15:36 RealBadAngel paramat, here you go: http://i.imgur.com/ZeO4q64.png
15:36 RealBadAngel moar bloom ;)
15:36 paramat ok, perhaps too much bloom :)
15:37 paramat in fact certainly too much
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15:40 red-001 looks like you have snow blindness :)
15:40 Taoki RealBadAngel: Looks good in principle, but a bit too darkened. Perhaps also a bit too long-radius.
15:40 red-001 could work for a realistic subgame
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15:46 Taoki RealBadAngel: Although in a normal circumstance over-brightening is not desired, bloom is an area where it's needed to look good. Basically, when there is bloom, colors close to full white become white themselves. Of course this needs to be done by a very slight amount, otherwise visiblity and quality is ruined.
15:46 Taoki That is however how bloom generally works in most engines.
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16:13 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/Eqsoysg.png
16:13 RealBadAngel i like how things actually glow
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16:22 kaadmy would it be possible for lit objects/outdoor objects to be much brighter?
16:22 kaadmy 2-3x brighter, then have the HDR with eye adjustment?
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16:35 RealBadAngel for that i need real lights
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16:58 Fixer RealBadAngel, is 3391 halted completely, or there is hope?
17:00 RealBadAngel Fixer, i will need that code, no way i can go further without it
17:00 RealBadAngel its just on hold now
17:02 Fixer RealBadAngel, wait a sec, i was talking about wrong, i mean PR about updating only one node, not entire thing
17:03 RealBadAngel hrm, frankly i dont know how to finish it
17:17 red-001 fixer did you need a binary for 3600?
17:18 Fixer red-001, sure, why not
17:21 red-001 https://transfer.sh/%28/TZsii/minetest.exe%29.zip
17:21 red-001 you need a recent version of minetest
17:23 red-001 it's 3600
17:23 red-001 fixer any other PR you want to test?
17:25 Fixer red-001, yes, PR3502 + PR3594 included
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17:27 red-001 together?
17:27 red-001 don't want to build twice
17:27 Fixer together ofc
17:27 Fixer 3502 is farmap
17:27 Fixer 3594 is texture tear fix
17:28 red-001 well I will test that meself as well ;)
17:28 Fixer red-001, are you building full distrib? or just exe?
17:28 red-001 exe
17:28 red-001 do you need full?
17:28 Fixer yes
17:28 Fixer at least libs
17:28 red-001 ok
17:28 Fixer or i can use sfan one's?
17:28 red-001 sure you can
17:29 red-001 as long as it's not too old
17:29 Fixer ah, ok, i will just swap, ok
17:29 red-001 try it anyway
17:32 Fixer red-001, zlibwapi.dll is needed
17:32 red-001 k
17:32 Fixer i do have zlib1.dll
17:33 red-001 all files for /bin https://transfer.sh/%28/TZsii/minetest.exe,/7​6JMK/libogg.dll,/68G8X/libvorbisfile.dll,/VQ7​3f/zlib1.dll,/iIgUh/lua51.dll,/XH4Nd/libcurl.​dll,/8aLDI/zlibwapi.dll,/W00X/openal32.dll,/5​x2BO/libvorbis.dll,/y9Bhs/irrlicht.dll%29.zip
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17:40 Fixer red-001, ty, it works, PR3600 works for me, plants are good
17:40 red-001 good
17:40 red-001 far map has some issues with diff
17:40 red-001 will take sometime to fix
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17:45 everamzah if u have enough configuration settings, you leave these judgements to the user
17:46 everamzah re: bloom
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17:52 Fixer PR3600 fixes the issue for me
17:52 Fixer farmap is very interesting feature and I will be glad to test it
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17:54 Fixer red-001, looks like sofar managed to solve that merge conflict
17:55 red-001 yes it was one comment it seems
17:55 red-001 lets see if it compiles
17:55 red-001 so far it's bad
17:56 red-001 ahh well
17:56 red-001 I guess compiling without mergeing it to minetest master
17:58 red-001 sofar could you tell me how you fixed the merge conflict with 3502?
17:58 sofar it's trivial, just a one liner merge fix
17:58 sofar paramat added an extra param to a function
17:59 red-001 well I'm getting a lot of errors
17:59 red-001 could you upload the fixed diff?
18:00 sofar I blew that branch away already
18:00 red-001 I see
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18:35 red-001 game#794
18:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/794 -- Add an on_burn callback. by red-001
18:36 red-001 I feel this would be very useful for modding.
18:36 rubenwardy Possibly slow
18:37 red-001 I don't know how to do benchmarks in minetest.
18:37 rubenwardy With great difficulty XD
18:37 red-001 any built in system for it?
18:38 red-001 It wouldn't be much worse then tnt on_blast
18:38 Calinou there literally are no benchmarking helpers in Minetest
18:41 red-001 I'm getting errors building #3502 in VS2013
18:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3502 -- Far map rendering and improved map transfer (WIP) by celeron55
18:42 red-001 celeron 3502 doesn't build in vs2013
18:42 red-001 celeron55
18:43 sofar press F6
18:43 sofar tadaa profiler
18:43 red-001 thanks
18:43 sofar red-001: wnat me to rebase it for you again? should take 2 minutes
18:44 sofar 66a5ed2 HEAD@{16}: commit (merge): Merge branch 'far_map_wip_5' of github.com:celeron55/minetest into temp
18:44 sofar I still have it :)
18:48 sofar red-001: pull the 'farmap' branch from my github.com/sofar/minetest tree
18:48 sofar it has a few compile warnings, but other than that it works
18:51 Taoki <+RealBadAngel> http://i.imgur.com/Eqsoysg.png
18:51 Taoki That looks a lot better indeed!
18:51 Calinou looks ok
18:52 Calinou now with motion blur and depth and field… would beat Skyrim by far!
18:52 * Calinou runs
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18:52 * VanessaE hands celeron55 a new ping timer.
18:52 red-001 sofar It still fails
18:53 Taoki [18:19:34] <kaadmy> would it be possible for lit objects/outdoor objects to be much brighter?
18:53 Taoki [18:32:29] <+RealBadAngel> for that i need real lights
18:53 Taoki Unless I'm mistaken, not necessarily: Outdoor objects have a light level of 15, everything else has 14 or less. This is already used to identify areas lit by sunlight or moonlight. However, I don't think brightness needs to peak specifically at this level... it's just useful for some things.
18:53 red-001 atlas.h
18:53 sofar red-001: must be a MSVC problem, sorry, you'll have to attempt to fix yourself
18:53 Taoki Calinou: Yes, DoF and MotionBlur are what I was thinking of too :D
18:54 sofar red-001: to me that's just a compile warning I think
18:54 Taoki Note: Please don't do ghosting based motion-blur! See how games like Need for Speed (>= Carbon) do it. Or in the FOSS department, Stuntrally (the latest versions).
18:56 Calinou Taoki, Stunt Rally and RBDOOM-3-BFG seem to do it fine
18:56 Calinou Sauerbraten and Red Eclipse don't
18:56 Calinou (but who would take code from those projects? ;))
18:56 Taoki Yep
19:00 red-001 tesseract did
19:00 red-001 not that it's a great success
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19:08 kaadmy Taoki: the hdr without dynamic lights is quite simple afaik
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19:32 Fixer RealBadAngel, funny how each liquid flow step rendering goes like heart beat with 23ms low and 43ms high
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20:34 rubenwardy Why do we still not have colored game chat?
20:35 Calinou nobody did a PR that was merged quickly enough to not have a ton of merge conflcts, I guess
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20:46 Taoki rubenwardy: It's a mystery beyond many of us.
20:48 RealBadAngel Taoki, i think i will need to pass some extra data to postprocess shaders then
20:49 RealBadAngel for example i would also want deep blue light sources to glow
20:50 RealBadAngel checkin the brightness of the render (as i do by now) cant give me such info
20:51 Taoki RealBadAngel: For bloom, you should be able to work with just the brightness of the image, nothing more needed. For Depth of Field though, you need the Z-buffer.
20:51 RealBadAngel partially
20:52 RealBadAngel look, when i do have lightsources like torch or meselamp glowing, i also have snow glowing as hell
20:52 Taoki http://i.imgur.com/Eqsoysg.png That looks about perfect to me.
20:52 RealBadAngel yes, but the snow is damn lightsource too :)
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20:53 Taoki Ah... you check if the node is a light source?
20:53 RealBadAngel i think i should
20:53 Taoki Bloom should really just blur and over-brighten parts of the finished image, without using such data.
20:53 RealBadAngel so how to make dark blue lamps to glow?
20:54 RealBadAngel and not have damn snow glowing at the same time?
20:54 Taoki That is an interesting challenge. Normally I'd think they just don't, if they aren't bright enough... but I dunno.
20:55 Taoki I mean a dim blue lamp should glow as much as snow when illuminated by sunlight.
20:55 Taoki It's the brightness that matters I think
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20:56 RealBadAngel hrmmm, yeah, but... damn snow (and sand too)
20:56 Taoki Snow should glow about as much as the lamp in that screenshot :)
20:57 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/YolmN3W.png
20:57 Taoki I can't really think of any game where bloom differentiates based on light source however... it only cares about the brightness of the final image.
20:57 Taoki Lovely :D
20:58 Taoki But well, if you can create an offset for light sources, that might be a good ability to have I guess.
20:58 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/HcooGXC.png
20:58 RealBadAngel ^^ and the damn snow ;)
20:59 Taoki So bloom is 2x stronger on light sources than what's illuminated bt them... based on light level that is.
20:59 Taoki Actually, I like how the snow is bloomed there :)
20:59 Taoki That looks great!
20:59 Taoki Maybe a bit odd in a way, I dunno.
21:00 RealBadAngel well, when you go outside in a sunny day, lookin at snow hurt your eyes
21:00 Taoki Yep. Bloom kinda emulates that.
21:00 RealBadAngel snow is reflecting sunlight as hell
21:00 Taoki So this is correct.
21:00 RealBadAngel lets say thats ok, what about sand?
21:01 Taoki Sand is a bit less bright, but its texture in Minetest is a bit darker too so.
21:01 RealBadAngel well, on sand its barely visible right now
21:01 RealBadAngel but its bright as hell too
21:01 Taoki Screenshot of that?
21:01 RealBadAngel hold on
21:02 Taoki RealBadAngel: My suggestion then is this: Have a base bloom value, applicable to anything that is bright enough... then a modifier for light sources. It should be something like: base_bloom * (lightsource_bloom_modifier * lightlevel)
21:02 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/OiFyJch.png
21:03 Taoki I kinda like that. Maybe a little too much, I guess.
21:03 Taoki I think that's realistic to be honest. Only problem is if some might find it annoying.
21:03 Taoki Bloom could be overall less intense if anything.
21:04 Taoki Maybe just make it a bit less strong altogether, and I think that should do the trick.
21:06 RealBadAngel im trying too, but then i got that on lamps barely visible if at all
21:06 RealBadAngel i think i need kinda tron solution
21:06 Taoki Hmmm
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21:06 Taoki BTW: How does bloom like with HDR also enabled? Quite curious how they work together :)
21:07 Taoki Hoping it might look Terrasology-stique
21:08 RealBadAngel HDR is on all the time here
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21:08 Taoki Ah
21:08 RealBadAngel look at darker things
21:08 RealBadAngel they got nicely saturated even if next to snow
21:09 Taoki I figure color correction might need to be tweaked or added differently, in case it's a wanted feature altogether
21:09 RealBadAngel thx to that filimic filter everything is equally saturated in fact
21:09 Taoki To get that yellow tint outdoor
21:09 Taoki Though it can already be done right now: Color tinting is already done for moonlight and sunlight in the code. It's just not very strong... kinda only used for moon as well.
21:10 Taoki RealBadAngel: Maybe you can try to make sunlight more yellow, using the existing method? Ideally it can follow the tonemaps as well.
21:10 RealBadAngel good idea, lemme try
21:11 Taoki Thanks :) I think a very good appearance can be achieved by making sunlight more yellow.
21:12 Taoki http://testing.pf-control.de/Te​rasology/data/textures/bg1.jpg Something like this is what is stuck in my head.
21:12 Taoki Huh... I just noticed, looking at that image: Negative / dark bloom is possible too?
21:13 Taoki Look at the edges: Trees and dirt have a black bloom around them. Theoretically I'd think that is incorrect, but there it kinda looks nice...
21:13 * Taoki mostly linked that as an example of the warm tones I love about it
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21:17 RealBadAngel warm, you say... lemme chain there another one
21:18 Taoki I think it should overall be based on daytime to some extent. We can do that with the current tinting system somewhat. Trying to put my finger on exactly how it works though
21:19 Taoki Another example: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/terasology/i​mages/1/1a/Javaw_2012-07-27_23-24-38-12.jpg/revi​sion/latest?cb=20120727212832&amp;path-prefix=de For reasons unrelated to just the texture package used, this has a pleasant yellow-ish tint that adds a lot to the features. Funny thing is, I can't tell exactly where and how they do it :)
21:21 Taoki http://i.imgur.com/ecjCw6I.png This is so beautiful too. Modded Minecraft client though... with support for realtime shadows, something for the age of realtime lighting.
21:23 RealBadAngel it makes underground look nice, but outside looks yellowish
21:23 Taoki The idea is for outside to look yellowish too. Not too much however.
21:23 Taoki Just a fraction, to look photorealistic.
21:24 RealBadAngel way tooo much ;)
21:24 RealBadAngel i think it should be done in HDR space
21:24 RealBadAngel lemme check
21:24 * Taoki nods, that sounds like the correct way yes
21:25 Taoki RealBadAngel: Also, another piece of the puzzle, which we can achieve before realtime lighting: Vignette. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Ge0LvXhaw
21:26 Taoki Minecraft does it too without shaders... usually underground or underwater. I think Terasology does it everywhere, but it manages to look good and not distracting.
21:27 Taoki RealBadAngel: Aha! Take a look at this one: http://testing.pf-control.de/Te​rasology/data/textures/bg3.jpg It seems to have the same amount of bloom on sand, but it looks better because it's more saturated. You could try some extra saturation as well on the bloom, the color extraction is a thing that often needs tweaking with it.
21:28 Taoki (sorry, it's a bit less, but about the same)
21:28 * Taoki also notes the more colorful sky
21:29 RealBadAngel the texture is darker
21:30 RealBadAngel which is imho quite good idea
21:30 Taoki True
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21:31 Taoki The default TP of minetest_game isn't too focused on getting colors and brightness right, I noticed. It looks sharp and accurate, but not in a pretty and pleasant way. I always thought we should go with something more artistic for that reason.
21:32 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/crOW2M2.png
21:33 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/A6qosRT.png
21:33 RealBadAngel warm colors filter applied, also changed artificial light a bit
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21:45 Fixer !tell paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3601
21:45 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K.
21:45 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/66WIKCY.png
21:45 RealBadAngel default sand texture needs to be fixed
21:46 RealBadAngel ive tweaked it a bit, it looks way better now
21:46 Fixer RealBadAngel, try slabs ;)
21:46 RealBadAngel what about slabes?
21:47 Fixer RealBadAngel, they have different rendering iirc
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21:48 RealBadAngel Fixer, we are talking about colors now
21:48 Fixer ok
21:48 Taoki Back... my system was taken down.
21:48 RealBadAngel btw, offtopic, new tab invetory is nice
21:48 RealBadAngel but where the fuck is torch?
21:49 RealBadAngel in nodes?
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21:50 H-H-H shouldnt torch be in tools
21:50 Taoki RealBadAngel: Please repost those last two screenshots: The logging system in my client apparently went down even earlier
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21:54 kaeza RealBadAngel, it's registered as a node, so it's reported as a node
21:55 kaeza I'm kinda wondering why doors are registered as craftitems though
21:58 RealBadAngel because of register craft item?
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22:57 sofar because the old door code needed to place 2 nodes, and you don't want to have half the door appear quickly (placement prediction) and the other half a long time
22:57 sofar this is gone when we go to mesh doors
22:57 sofar placement prediction works in favor there, so doors are no longer craftitems
22:58 sofar torches aren't tools
22:58 sofar they don't degrade with use
22:58 sofar they're nodes
22:58 sofar maybe we should have a "blocks" category
22:59 sofar or even a group property
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23:01 sofar red-001: you should try hexchat for windows ;)
23:02 red-001 what would it give me?
23:03 sofar not having to use a third party website to store your passwords and rely on?
23:03 sofar generally hexchat has an excellent interface... I use it on linux, windows etc.
23:04 red-001 well does it use a lot less memory then firefox?
23:05 sofar red-001: heh, that's a low bar ... yes it does
23:06 red-001 well there are git gui's that need opengl3
23:06 sofar hexchat on my comp is sitting at 33m resident memory, while firefox is at 371m
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