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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-01-20

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Time Nick Message
00:00 mangeurdenuage left #minetest-dev
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00:11 * H-H-H watches with interest at the posibility of being able to actually name a book
00:12 * kaadmy burns holes in the screen while staring
00:12 H-H-H even checked the pr and wondered if i dare try to apply it to a local copy and have a play
00:16 RealBadAngel sofar, yeah, but first things first. the metadata stuff
00:17 RealBadAngel but im afraid that too many stuff is using actual system
00:17 sofar Which is why we need a new, opaque storage
00:17 sofar That solves that problem entirely
00:17 sofar And fully backwards compatible
00:18 sofar Just let the old metadata field stay, and deprecate it
00:19 sofar Add itemstack::get_meta()
00:19 sofar Single :
00:19 sofar Note that node meta uses get_meta()
00:20 sofar So that's nicely the same
00:20 RealBadAngel indeed
00:20 RealBadAngel that will make things easier to migrate
00:20 sofar The interface to LuA would be really easy too
00:21 sofar Since ask that code already exists
00:21 sofar All*
00:21 sofar (On my phone... Typo hell)
00:21 kaadmy heh
00:21 RealBadAngel i hate those devices telling me what i had in mind ;)
00:21 kaadmy typosnindeed
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00:26 paramat looks like 3578 is ready, will merge that and 3581 in a moment
00:28 RealBadAngel btw, the inventory looks nice, but, why the hell it changes size between tabs?
00:29 RealBadAngel i mean crafting formspec is different sized than the other ones
00:29 paramat it does
00:29 RealBadAngel even tabs are jumping when switching from one to another
00:30 RealBadAngel so you have to instantly move cursor up and down to hit another tab
00:30 paramat yes, each form is made as compact as possible, perhaps better to keep the tabs stationary
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00:30 paramat job for kilbith
00:31 RealBadAngel main inventory and tabs shall be same sized and displayed at exactly the same positions
00:31 paramat now merging to engine
00:31 RealBadAngel otherwise it looks bad and annoying
00:32 RealBadAngel yeah, 3578 is fine
00:33 sofar Good, then the mesh doors can go in next
00:34 sofar Paramat: there's a few conflicts between some of the door and trapdoor prs
00:34 sofar I'll fix those depending on merge order
00:34 paramat ok
00:39 sofar I'm thinking the chest PR may run into more opposition :)
00:41 sofar speaking of
00:41 sofar I need to see what kinds of nodes are def.walkable
00:47 paramat merged
00:48 RealBadAngel what about 2827?
00:51 sofar seems like it could use a test and another c++ review
00:51 sofar well the code looks simple enough
00:51 paramat 2827 much wanted
00:52 sofar I can maybe test it later, not right now
00:53 RealBadAngel also #1984 needs some fresh air
00:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1984 -- Rename testsounds/ directory to sounds/ by Calinou
00:54 RealBadAngel the /sounds folder shall be also included in sources
00:54 RealBadAngel so users wont have to create it
00:55 sofar that should badly go in fast
00:55 sofar afk some more...
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00:58 sofar Kaea: def.walkable?
00:58 sofar Kaeza?
00:58 kaeza tip: ka<tab>
00:58 kaeza :)
00:58 sofar Mobile
00:59 kaeza I see
00:59 kaeza anyway, if a node is `walkable = false`, it has no collision
00:59 kaeza s/is/has/
00:59 sofar Yes, but e.g. a plant would look weird
01:00 kaeza uh, don't understand
01:01 sofar A lid going through a plant
01:01 sofar E.g. a root that has grown down
01:02 sofar They are climbable, not walkable
01:06 sofar Kaeza: more importantly, as I asked in the PR, what nodes do you think I missed?
01:18 kaeza sofar, my comment about `walkable` is about hidden passage blocks or the like
01:19 kaeza also, in general, I think it's consistent that if a given node lets players pass unimpeded, it should also not block the chest lid
01:20 kaeza in your case, it's unlikely you'd make the "root" node un-walkable
01:23 kaeza key word is "unimpeded". a slab should block the lid, even if the slab thickness is a rounding error
01:24 kaeza (Disclaimer: I'm not on mobile; my english generally sucks)
01:31 paramat left #minetest-dev
01:37 VanessaE kaeza: why not introduce a node property, "mass", scale of 0-255 or something.  if a chest has a node above it and it's less than some amount, the chest opens and nothing special happens.  between that amount and some higher value, the chest opens and causes the item to drop out as an entity.  above the higher value (or undefined), the chest can't open.
01:38 VanessaE (the entity idea being that the chest "knocked" the item off of it)
01:41 VanessaE (might also be useful in case someone wanted to create a subgame with physics)
01:56 kaeza VanessaE, sounds too complex for this feature
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04:35 sofar alright I'm back
04:35 sofar kaeza: so, thinking about hidden passageways
04:36 sofar kaeza: I'm not sure why you want a lid animation to reveal a hidden passage
04:36 sofar well, it's technically not an animation
04:56 kaeza meh, don't care either way
04:57 sofar kaeza: easily adjusted, later, anyway
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05:16 sofar wow
05:16 sofar someone made mumble work in-game
05:17 kaadmy really?
05:17 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=6702
05:45 sofar it does the hardest part - 3d positioning info for mumble
05:46 sofar we should hook it up so that clients automatically get sent the right mumble URL
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06:35 sofar I really, really do not understand why BlockMen's torch mesh model isn't merged
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06:42 Hijiri Is there anything in the mod API to add things to the rollback log, like if a tool allows a player to dig a wide area of nodes at once?
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07:00 sofar Hijiri: I really don't know know anything about rollback, sorry, wish I could help
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08:19 red-001 hijiri minetest.dig_node should work
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08:22 Hijiri red-001: how does it know what player to add to the rollback log?
08:22 sofar RealBadAngel: hey, I'm tired, if you're looking for fancy ideas that are really, really useful, think about animated textures for particle spawners for a bit
08:23 red-001 http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.dig_node
08:23 red-001 it has a digger so I say yes
08:23 Hijiri oh, the version of lua_api.txt I have doesn't have those extra arguments
08:24 Hijiri is that available in 0.4.13?
08:24 * red-001 ?
08:24 red-001 idk
08:24 Hijiri red-001: thanks either way
08:24 red-001 try to use  it and see
08:25 Hijiri oh, it's not in the master lua api doc either
08:26 red-001 game#667
08:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/667 -- Add tnt API. by red-001
08:26 celeron55 holy shit there are like a million robots suddenly power-crawling like every subdomain of minetest.net and the VPS almost can't handle it
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08:26 celeron55 it's like a DoS
08:26 sofar wekk damn
08:27 sofar celeron55: that suck
08:27 sofar s
08:27 red-001 yeah it does
08:27 sofar celeron55: I assume robots.txt is everywhere?
08:28 celeron55 i had pretty bad robots.txt configurations; they are crawling some wiki special pages and stuff
08:28 celeron55 and of course they won't re-read them any time soon
08:28 Hijiri red-001: I found node_dig
08:29 Hijiri it is exactly what I wanted, I think
08:29 sofar celeron55: any idea what crawlers?
08:29 celeron55 i think yesterday it was mostly bingbot
08:29 celeron55 now it's http://ahrefs.com/robot/
08:29 Hijiri I think dig_node is misdocumented on the wiki, because the C++ source looks like it only uses the position
08:29 Hijiri https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob​/master/src/script/lua_api/l_env.cpp#L251
08:30 celeron55 yandex too, actually
08:32 sofar celeron55: start adding
08:32 sofar Crawl-delay: xxx
08:33 sofar 10 is a good starting value
08:33 sofar right under User-Agent: *
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08:39 celeron55 yeah; that just doesn't help now that they already read it and just go with what there was
08:39 sofar it'll help dissipate the problem
08:39 celeron55 i blocked the ahrefs one from the wikis now; they don't need this information anyway
08:39 sofar you have iptables I assume?
08:40 celeron55 ehm, how does that matter?
08:40 celeron55 i obviously don't because that's a linux thing
08:41 sofar ah, sorry, was just about to suggest an iptables rule to rate limit ips
08:41 sofar I have no idea what you run on the servers
08:41 celeron55 well i can rate-limit and block stuff in nginx
08:41 sofar true
08:41 celeron55 i run openbsd on it
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09:06 yunfan celeron55: why not netbsd
09:09 celeron55 because why not openbsd 8)
09:11 everamzah obsd has songs with each release
09:11 everamzah so there's that
09:11 yunfan well netbsd could run on more platform
09:11 yunfan i installed it on my rpi model B
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09:50 nrzkt celeron55, use a rate limiting on PF
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14:03 loggingbot_ joined #minetest-dev
14:03 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Last release: 0.4.13, Aug 20 2015. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
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14:15 red-001 game#667
14:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/667 -- Add tnt API. by red-001
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14:30 red-001 game#602
14:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/602 -- Add access privilege that allows players to bypass protection. by red-001
14:31 red-001 sofar is the commit message ok?
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15:01 sofar_ red-001: yeah, fine
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15:06 H-H-H1 sofar i love the fact that i can now add Title by Owner as a inventory tooltip for books now ty
15:07 sofar that code will all change, though
15:07 dfelinto sneak peak of what I’ve been cooking: https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/CZLA3dVUMAAND_L.jpg:large
15:07 dfelinto basically minetest running with head-tracking + stereo 3d in mesa-3d (a horizontal 3d display)
15:07 dfelinto I still need to solve some culling issues, but overall it’s running fine :)
15:08 H-H-H1 bring on the occulus :P
15:08 dfelinto oculus is the next target. I’ll start looking at it next week :)
15:08 dfelinto it will be an experimental branch though. no committment at ever sending it to master
15:12 H-H-H1 good luck will be interesting to see how you get on
15:13 dfelinto it shouldn’t be too hard now that I figured how to handle and use my own projection matrix in minetest :)
15:13 dfelinto the fact that minetest (or rather: irrlicht) uses directx proj matrices even even running via OpenGL was the hardest thing to debug … living and learning :)
15:15 H-H-H1 sorry sofar was that comment for me?
15:15 sofar H-H-H1: yes
15:16 H-H-H1 oh ok then i just patched my minetest for the benefit of my health then haha
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15:21 red-001 dfelinto wow thats awesome
15:21 red-001 minetest in 3d and not this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAek-eEb490
15:22 dfelinto haha about that … I have a WIP  patch to fix the stereo system adopted by minetest. Now that I figured how to handle the matrices for minetest I should be able to finish it up. it will help even tha anaglyph case
15:23 dfelinto which, if it wasn’t existent, it would have been hell for me to tackle. so, I’m very impressed with minetest so far
15:24 dfelinto (as a developer, as a user I honestly heard about minetest for the 1st time ever last month, so I’m sure there will still be plenty of minetest features that will impress me :)
15:27 red-001 is making a 3d version basically rendering the video output twice and adding so sort of head tracking?
15:30 dfelinto red-001: it depends on what you call 3d. the current implementation of minetest has two renders, each one with the camera rotated towards a target in front of the original view. and each of the “cameras” offseted in relation to the original camera (to simulate the left-right eyes)
15:30 dfelinto this is known as toe-in stereo
15:31 dfelinto what I want to finish later is “off-axis” stereo, where the cameras are offseted from the original camera, but instead of rotated towards a target, they face forawrd and we use a projection matrix shifted towards a convergence plane
15:32 red-001 so the second one also needs eye tracking?
15:32 red-001 in order to get the axis right
15:32 dfelinto not really, it still calculates the stereo based off the original camera orientation
15:33 dfelinto for oculus yes you use head tracking (position and orientation), and infere the eyes positions and the correct projection matrices from it (the Oculus SDK calculates the eye position and the projection matrices for you actually)
15:33 dfelinto for the mesa-3d (the picture I shared) it’s a bit different, but basically yes we track the head position, and assume you are always facing the table/display. so no need for eye tracking
15:34 dfelinto or more specifically: https://github.com/dfelinto/minetest/b​lob/planovision/src/drawscene.cpp#L572 :)
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17:27 red-001 how can I get a wiki account ?
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18:35 RealBadAngel hi guys, whats up?
18:36 sofar joined #minetest-dev
18:36 RealBadAngel btw, im reading "Martian" right now, excellent one
18:36 sofar hey
18:37 RealBadAngel that guy sound like minetest modder most of the time ;)
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18:38 RealBadAngel im screwed, next day he founds the way to make things work again
18:38 RealBadAngel exactly like us lol
18:39 RealBadAngel must read one for every coder or a geek out there
18:40 sofar did you see my animated particle idea yesterday?
18:40 RealBadAngel yeah
18:40 RealBadAngel drop it
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18:40 RealBadAngel irrrenderer comes with native irrlicht particels system
18:41 sofar ok so?
18:41 sofar more code that's more complex?
18:41 RealBadAngel i do have all it code merged alredy
18:41 RealBadAngel i just dont know how to use it
18:42 sofar are you lacking ideas, or the lua side of how to get it working?
18:43 RealBadAngel are you aware that irrlicht have own particles and our way is a workaround?
18:43 kaadmy ^ not surprised
18:43 red-001 wasn't there a PR to fix this
18:43 kaadmy irrlicht is basically an all-in-one gfx library that MT somehow uses poorly
18:43 red-001 I don't think it got merged
18:43 RealBadAngel jinxi tried to do that, i mean let us use them
18:43 sofar RealBadAngel: don't care, I just want to animate particles
18:43 sofar RealBadAngel: so... talk shop
18:44 sofar tell me, what is missing to fix it?
18:44 RealBadAngel start reading its WIP PR
18:44 RealBadAngel he was asking for help to finish it
18:44 RealBadAngel long, long time ago in a galaxy far away... ;)
18:45 red-001 sofar what would animate particles allow to be done?
18:45 sofar just as normal tiles can be animated (torch, furnace)
18:46 sofar you'd set the animation length to e.g. 3 seconds
18:46 sofar and then you'd animate the e.g. TNT explosion particle
18:46 sofar so that it doesn't look lame
18:46 sofar very, very lame
18:46 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2587
18:47 RealBadAngel irrlicht one are way faster than ours
18:47 RealBadAngel WAY
18:48 sofar dammit RBA, let's finish that
18:48 RealBadAngel not my area of expetise
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18:48 RealBadAngel idk shit about them
18:48 red-001 can someone that know more about c++ please tell me what I messed up? https://github.com/red-001/minetest/commit​/19055c335c78dd442b74f31d6bb34405efe124af
18:50 red-001 no matter what I try at most I can get the settings to reset to what they where when I opened the dialog
18:50 sofar I hate these wonderful PR's that go absolutely nowhere
18:50 sofar red-001: I doubt the settings are applied when you close the dialog
18:50 sofar red-001: they're probably changed immediately
18:51 sofar oh, key settings
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18:53 RealBadAngel most wonderful was the integrated logic
18:54 RealBadAngel btw, we had even RGB torches befor
18:54 RealBadAngel +e
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18:58 RealBadAngel but but fuck torches
18:58 red-001 red gree blue?
18:58 RealBadAngel yeah
18:58 RealBadAngel that was nice but lighhting will be better
18:58 RealBadAngel i miss really fast circuits
18:58 sofar pick a thing, fix it
18:58 sofar let's not start 20 PRs and finish none
18:59 RealBadAngel cirucuits are not a single pr or something to fix
18:59 RealBadAngel it was about implementation
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19:00 RealBadAngel we dont have that feature which made mc great
19:00 RealBadAngel mesecons thx to being lua mod are way to slow
19:00 RealBadAngel in mc folks made HUGE CPU's made out of redstone
19:01 RealBadAngel those things were epic
19:01 red-001 yeah
19:01 red-001 they are
19:01 RealBadAngel but more epic is the engine that allows that kind of creative freedom
19:02 RealBadAngel we do suck at it
19:02 sofar core needs fixes more than better ways of doing lua circuits
19:02 RealBadAngel claimin mt is better because we do use lua sucks
19:02 RealBadAngel lua is a bitch
19:02 sofar lua isn't ideal, for sure
19:02 sofar but it's not the problem IMHO
19:03 RealBadAngel ofc not
19:04 sofar many PR's are stranded for no reason
19:04 RealBadAngel mt needs nice gfx (to be modern game) and even nicer physics
19:04 sofar "did someone test this?"
19:04 sofar "code looks good but need 1 more +1"
19:04 RealBadAngel to be real sandbox
19:04 sofar "can you change comment here"
19:04 sofar :)
19:04 red-001 'code style'
19:04 RealBadAngel sofar, welcome to the club
19:04 sofar and meanwhile paramat is going crazy merging stuff by himself
19:05 sofar no offense
19:05 sofar he does a ton
19:05 RealBadAngel more you write, more whites and strange problems are discovered on your pathces
19:05 sofar red-001: code style comments are the best
19:05 sofar red-001: they're the easiest to fix
19:05 red-001 true
19:05 RealBadAngel sofar, paramat is great coder
19:05 RealBadAngel but
19:05 RealBadAngel only when it comes to mapgen
19:06 RealBadAngel we all do have our areas where we are best at
19:06 RealBadAngel im demoscene coder\
19:07 RealBadAngel atm we do fight one another for tabs, spaces and use of some coding styles
19:07 RealBadAngel instead of cooperating
19:08 * red-001 notices a strange pattern in open source projects
19:08 sofar ah really, look how fast I respin my PRs for style or nitpick comments
19:08 sofar you don't need to fuss about it
19:08 RealBadAngel youre quite new to mt
19:09 RealBadAngel im here for almost 4 yrs
19:09 sofar been doing open source since forever, professionally
19:09 sofar so I can probably connect quicker than most people
19:09 RealBadAngel im coding for 30 yrs already
19:10 sofar OSS, though?
19:10 RealBadAngel Zilog Z80, assm
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19:10 sofar but, is that in an OSS community type of setting?
19:11 RealBadAngel no
19:11 RealBadAngel i brought up the platform just
19:12 RealBadAngel we have coded just for fun of coding
19:12 sofar yeah but
19:12 sofar minetest needs people who can collaborate
19:12 RealBadAngel licences? who the fuck have ever heard bout such shit
19:13 sofar being a brilliant code means nothing if you can't constrain yourself to adhere to coding style norms
19:13 sofar or you drop 500 lines of code and walk away
19:13 RealBadAngel thats a pain, i do admit
19:13 sofar I may need to learn irrlicht, and particles, and objects
19:14 sofar but I am well-trained in knowing what it takes to change MT
19:14 RealBadAngel but even hmm said i do my goals with minimal code needed
19:14 sofar yes, I think you get it
19:14 RealBadAngel that was my school
19:14 RealBadAngel code and redo it 100 times
19:14 RealBadAngel to get it faster
19:15 Obani Lol I was making myself a review of MT's PR
19:15 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/817
19:15 RealBadAngel that technique is gone nowadays
19:16 RealBadAngel we were calculating each loop, unrolling them when necessary
19:16 RealBadAngel by hand
19:17 RealBadAngel when i do code something i usually make it work in the first place
19:17 RealBadAngel at all
19:17 RealBadAngel then i do play with the code for a bit
19:18 RealBadAngel to see how it behaves or how can i make it faster
19:18 RealBadAngel when im quite satisfied with results
19:18 RealBadAngel im makin it public
19:18 RealBadAngel because i do know that testers will find holes, so i expect feedback
19:19 RealBadAngel but what is pissing me off, to the bone
19:19 RealBadAngel is closing my PR as celeron did with plants
19:20 RealBadAngel paramat lookin at picture said "its cute"
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19:21 RealBadAngel it wasnt raping his vision of minetest and spirit was silent atm
19:21 sofar I get that
19:21 sofar it's personal
19:21 sofar and it isn't personal
19:21 RealBadAngel then c55 joined the discussion and said hes against
19:22 RealBadAngel so paramat started a crusade against my code
19:22 RealBadAngel and trying to remove everything i made till now
19:23 RealBadAngel we do have best qualitiy relief mapping ( as for our kind)
19:23 RealBadAngel but we dont have now files to support it
19:24 RealBadAngel because paramat doesnt know how to create new maps in case he will change a texture
19:25 RealBadAngel game developer have actually claimed he doesnt know how to make GFX and said its too dificult
19:25 RealBadAngel thats why modern game cannot use modern effects
19:25 RealBadAngel its just too hard
19:25 RealBadAngel L O L
19:26 sofar hey, calm down. this type of logic will just annoy the very same people that are going to review your PRs
19:27 RealBadAngel im not a teenager to change moods twice a day
19:27 sofar but you're old enough to understand that it's self-defeating
19:27 RealBadAngel each normal map took me several hours to polish
19:28 sofar they are very hard to make
19:28 RealBadAngel but either i can be man with a vision or just a piece of material responding to the actual winds around
19:28 RealBadAngel which way would YOU pick?
19:29 sofar visions don't move mountains, the shovel does, though
19:29 sofar you need a little of both
19:29 sofar a goal to work for, and small steps
19:29 RealBadAngel atm im taming myself
19:29 sofar what was it again, the journey of a thousand miles
19:30 sofar afk, meeting :/
19:30 RealBadAngel im so involved with the project that i just dont think i could stop
19:37 RealBadAngel but, look at all the commits history and folks that stopped contributing
19:44 red-001 according to github most people are contributing less in the recent months
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21:07 paramat nore sfan5 here are 3 simple mtgame PRs, should be easy to review, any comments/approval? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/784 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/787 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/790
21:12 red-001 my tnt api pr is on the verge of  experiencing feature  creep..
21:14 paramat sorry for the lack of game devs, the lack of my input is because i feel very neutral about it.
21:21 sfan5 paramat: 787 is ok
21:28 paramat ok
21:39 red-001 is there a way to detect if a node has be removed by fire?
21:45 sfan5 paramat: game#790 is ok too
21:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/790 -- Better trapdoor side appearance. by sofar
21:46 paramat -> #minetest :]
21:46 paramat ok
21:47 paramat i might merge those along with game 791 later then
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22:12 paramat now merging to game
22:13 red-001 paramat 602 is quite trivial
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22:23 red-001 game#794
22:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/794 -- Add an on_burn callback. by red-001
22:24 paramat merged
22:25 red-001 an extremely trivial PR that would allow mods to do a lot of hings
22:25 red-001 things*
22:27 paramat i can't judge 602 because i don't have much server/multiplayer understanding, so i'll leave that to other game devs to judge
22:29 red-001 I understand
22:39 paramat hmmmm or anyone https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3590 this adds an option to mgvalleys to use classic MT large pseudorandom caves and mgv7 3D noise tunnels (currently mgvalleys lacks underground caverns)
22:42 paramat :] spawned inside a tree trunk and couldn't even punch my way out
22:43 red-001 This happened to me a *lot* on android
22:43 red-001 underground, in tree, etc
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23:07 Robert_Zenz Can somebody have a look at minetest#3358 again, sometime?
23:08 Robert_Zenz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3358
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