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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-01-18

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Time Nick Message
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00:32 * Fixer >_> RealBadAngel
00:33 RealBadAngel Fixer, what?
00:33 Fixer RealBadAngel, waiting for some good news :)
00:34 RealBadAngel ive done 4 out of 6 faces already
00:34 RealBadAngel but definitely that will fix the issue
00:34 Fixer i will test it for sure
00:34 RealBadAngel i know that it works
00:34 Fixer good luck with it
00:36 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/3y2onB1.png
00:36 RealBadAngel as you can see it looks ok
00:37 Fixer RealBadAngel, do you have some kind of AA on?
00:37 RealBadAngel thats upscaling
00:38 RealBadAngel low res render upscaled full screen
00:38 Fixer hmm, looked at my apple, your apple looks right
00:38 RealBadAngel btw, that can be used on slower machines
00:39 RealBadAngel render it in 800x600 for example and upscale to whatever res needed, worse looking but definitely faster
00:40 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/heaYQ8I.png
00:41 Fixer yeah
00:41 lezzy RealBadAngel: is it something easy to maybe add a custom texture to the clouds?
00:42 lezzy like the sun and moon
00:42 RealBadAngel lezzy, propably easy
00:42 lezzy lol rendering is one thing it on trust me i tried a few times
00:42 lezzy thing im lost on*
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05:04 RealBadAngel kahrl, wanna laugh a bit? fix for wielded item is one liner propably. at least it fixes it for me
05:05 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/camera.cpp#L649
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05:06 RealBadAngel setting near to 10 instead of 0.1 does the trick
05:11 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3586
05:11 RealBadAngel needs to be tested ofc
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11:41 RealBadAngel so, anybody here with wielded item glitch?
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13:33 EvergreenTree Is it expected behavior for /revoke to not revoke certain privileges in singleplayer?
13:34 Calinou_ EvergreenTree, yes, because the "name" player gets all privileges and can't be revoked
13:34 Calinou_ except the ones whose "give_to_singleplayer" flag is set to false
13:35 EvergreenTree Is there any way of revoking said privileges?
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15:46 RealBadAngel hi
15:47 RealBadAngel had weekend ended already? ;)
15:47 RealBadAngel kahrl?
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16:17 kahrl RealBadAngel: hi, just came back from work yes
16:18 kahrl is it really just a Z-fighting issue? that would be a bit... disappointing :P
16:18 kahrl but nice since it's so simple to fix
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16:18 RealBadAngel kahrl, nice, but costed me two nights
16:19 RealBadAngel as you can see in #minetest its checked already
16:19 RealBadAngel you can merge it
16:19 Fixer kahrl, weild item bug is fixed for me on Win7 + ATI
16:20 kahrl so I guess the only ones that ran into the problem were those with low Z-buffer bit depth
16:20 kahrl if the fix still doesn't fix it for everyone, another thing we could try is polygon offset
16:22 RealBadAngel kahrl, ive tried everything incuding rewriting extruded meshes from scratch
16:23 kahrl oh wow
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16:23 kahrl btw, (in case you checked:) at what near value does the wield mesh start getting cut off?
16:23 RealBadAngel ive made them able to turn off backface culling
16:23 RealBadAngel so it can be point for another patch
16:23 RealBadAngel oops, turn ON
16:24 RealBadAngel 1.0 is quite enough
16:24 RealBadAngel but you can see then glitches of your mesh
16:24 RealBadAngel x faces edges are sometimes visible on y planes
16:25 RealBadAngel so i moved it further
16:25 RealBadAngel 10 makes the glitches gone
16:25 kahrl ah, with near value = 100 it already cuts off the front of the mesh
16:26 kahrl so 10 is probably the best
16:26 jin_xi is that BS or coincidence?
16:27 RealBadAngel no
16:27 kahrl I'm not sure, the wield mesh has a lot of weird transformations applied to it
16:27 paramat RealBadAngel #3547 have you fixed nerzhul's issue? if so i can merge it once it's rebased
16:27 RealBadAngel i get best result with 100 (near) 1000 (far)
16:27 RealBadAngel but i didnt wanted to push it that far
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16:28 kahrl RealBadAngel: do you? I can't see the whole wield mesh then
16:28 RealBadAngel paramat, i was about to ask you why you have removed "will merge later" comment
16:28 RealBadAngel and yes, its rebased with inlining
16:29 paramat i wasn't sure if you had fixed nerzhul's issue
16:29 paramat ok cool
16:29 RealBadAngel kahrl, transformation are only applied in 3d modes
16:29 RealBadAngel to shift the mesh
16:30 RealBadAngel in regular mode you could delete that code without any side effects
16:30 kahrl RealBadAngel: I meant that scaling by WIELD_SCALE_FACTOR and the rotation, and I can't remember if there's other stuff
16:31 RealBadAngel kahrl, for testing ive made that mesh displayed with smgr
16:31 RealBadAngel not in derrived scene manager
16:32 RealBadAngel also i was testing it with different renderer
16:32 RealBadAngel everything seems fine
16:32 RealBadAngel we do have fixer and rubenwardy reports that fix works in regular enviroment
16:33 RealBadAngel btw, wielded case is the only one that changed "near" value of the camera
16:33 kahrl it was originally drawn in the same scene as everything else, but the problem was that the wield mesh then gets clipped by nearby nodes
16:33 paramat i could merge this too then later
16:33 RealBadAngel default is 1.0
16:34 RealBadAngel when you create scene manager
16:34 RealBadAngel only one that dared to change it is wielded one
16:34 RealBadAngel 1.0 is enough to say that glitch is gone
16:34 RealBadAngel but i wanted to hide wielded mesh faults
16:35 RealBadAngel so 10 works just great
16:35 RealBadAngel ive made about 300 of screenshots, shall i upload them all as a prove?
16:36 kahrl RealBadAngel: what matters is the quotient far / near, and 1000 / 0.1 is really not that far off from the default 3000 / 1
16:36 RealBadAngel kahrl, i can provide you with code to test it
16:36 kahrl it only got problematic because there are many (non-connected) vertices very close to each other in the wield mesh
16:37 RealBadAngel idk what caused problem, ive found out what solves it
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16:38 RealBadAngel ive made even properly mapped extruded meshes with separated materials for each face to test culling
16:38 rubenwardy Wow, that diff: https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/pull/3586/files
16:38 RealBadAngel your design doesnt care about which side should be displayed
16:39 RealBadAngel but as you can clearly see it wasnt the cause for the glitch
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16:44 RealBadAngel 3 reports that bug is fixed
16:45 RealBadAngel shall we wait a few weeks to merge it? ;)
16:45 paramat is kahrl happy with the implementation? if so i'll merge it later
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16:46 kahrl paramat: yeah I gave it a +1
16:46 kahrl it seems to fix it for a large chunk of people, time will tell if it fixes it for everyone
16:47 paramat ok +1 then
16:47 kahrl RBA: good job on finding it btw :)
16:48 RealBadAngel thx :)
16:49 RealBadAngel have i earned 1 feature to be merged for killing two bugs? ;)
16:49 kahrl well you have to ask Megaf
16:49 RealBadAngel lol
16:50 RealBadAngel btw, see my comments on backface culling PR by sofar
16:50 RealBadAngel that PR is not needed
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16:54 paramat is it ok to merge a PR without rebasing first, as long as there are no conflicts? i'm not sure if #3547 needs rebasing
16:55 eliemichel I was wandering on the wiki and found that: http://dev.minetest.net/Formspec_json
16:55 eliemichel Don't know exactly what it is about, but why using a JSON file when you could use directly the lua syntax to serialize data?
16:56 kahrl paramat: how exactly do you merge it?
16:57 paramat clone minetest, wget patch, git am, git push
16:57 kahrl I think git am is pretty much a rebase, so that's ok
16:58 RealBadAngel paramat, get yourself a visual git client
16:59 RealBadAngel paramat, http://i.imgur.com/5EiPPrv.png
17:00 paramat yes the method is known as a rebasing method
17:01 paramat currently i trust when the thread says 'This branch has no conflicts with the base branch' and attempt a merge
17:02 RealBadAngel with this client you can manually exclude even single lines
17:02 RealBadAngel so rebasing conflicting PR is child's play
17:04 paramat ok i will merge 3586 3587 3547 very soon
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17:08 paramat nore sfan5 any comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/784 'Default: Add vacuum node and mapgen_vacuum alias'?
17:16 paramat now merging to engine
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17:26 paramat merged
17:35 paramat simple PR to stop liquids spreading on ignore https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3581 review/approval appreciated
17:39 RealBadAngel paramt, all i can say that those water looks like shit
17:39 RealBadAngel no matter where it stops
17:40 RealBadAngel without shaders and tangent space it will always look so
17:40 RealBadAngel but thats just "btw"
17:41 RealBadAngel that applies also to river flow in valleys
17:42 RealBadAngel good work on making actual flow
17:42 RealBadAngel but gfx representation of it sux big time
17:51 hmmmm hrmm paramat, it doesn't seem like the problem hasn't actually been solved with your PR
17:51 hmmmm it suffers the same issue as the last PR for this
17:53 paramat yes it only stops the ugly spreading, any possible updating abm can be a later commit in game
17:54 hmmmm but that makes it worse
17:54 hmmmm because now the liquid gets stuck
17:54 paramat it got stuck before
17:54 hmmmm sorry, i won't approve of this until there's a full solution..
17:55 hmmmm huh?
17:55 hmmmm it did?
17:55 sofar RealBadAngel: I can't get special_tiles = { "foo.png", backface_culling = true } to work
17:55 paramat is tested, drop water in floatlands
17:55 paramat it spreads and gets stuck, now it doesn't spread and gets stuck
17:56 hmmmm okay
17:56 hmmmm that being said, as long as it doesn't make anything WORSE i'll support it
17:56 paramat ok thanks, to be sure i'll test again
17:57 hmmmm hrmm
17:57 hmmmm flowing_down = true rather than breaking out of the processing loop early
17:58 hmmmm does that actually work, if you have flowing_down = true into a solid block?
17:58 sofar RealBadAngel: no matter where I put backface_culling ... it doesn't do anything for mesh nodes
17:58 paramat with 'flowing down' it acts as if there is air below and doesn't spread, however ignore is not floodable so it doesn't actually flow down
17:59 sofar RealBadAngel: my assumption is that disabling it for mesh nodes in nodedef.cpp is what kills it entirely for mesh nodes
17:59 RealBadAngel sofar, i will test it, but it shout work out of the box
17:59 hmmmm ahh okay then
17:59 paramat currrently the problem is it acts as if ignore is solid
17:59 RealBadAngel anyway, that approch is imho the correct one
17:59 sofar RealBadAngel: just grab the "newdoor" branch from me from minetest_game, since this is all about making the doors work
17:59 RealBadAngel at least we went that direction vefore
17:59 RealBadAngel *before
18:00 RealBadAngel making another same named flag applying to all the tiles will break existing ones
18:02 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L1097
18:02 RealBadAngel see all the water nodes defs
18:05 RealBadAngel if the other approach is bugged imho it shall be fixed rather than introducing new way
18:12 RealBadAngel having it defined per tile (material) allows also meshes built out of different kind of materials
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18:27 paramat hmmmm, in testing: currently water gets stuck when it hits ignore and spreads completely reaching a steady state. if you quickly fly down when you see it start to spread and generate the mapchunk below, the half-spread area of water will start to descend because it's still updating itself
19:15 RealBadAngel idk what you have done atm, but quick idea is to have separate flowing node with abm that will turn again into regular flowing on detection of something placeable beneath
19:21 paramat ah yes, will consider
19:21 RealBadAngel that way you wont have abms on all flowing ones
19:21 RealBadAngel only those that hit the wall
19:22 paramat Fixer talk in channel, is on topic and info might be helpful for others
19:23 Fixer i will copy it to here:
19:23 Fixer "to make metters worse, start two sources (1 lava and 1 water) near each other on the sides (with 1 nodes space i think), let them flow over ignore, ???, even more, ???, disconnect, reconnect, lots of liquid bugs!"
19:24 Fixer " when water and lava flow over ignore they start interacting, creating rocks in layers, thing gets even more complex, i've seen it on actual servers, i will try to recreate it too, lava + water can create huge and bad buggy flows that impossible to remove without worldedit"
19:24 paramat the lack of spreading might help this
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19:36 red-001 ~web title https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/667
19:36 ShadowBot red-001: Add tnt API. by red-001 · Pull Request #667 · minetest/minetest_game · GitHub
19:37 red-001 ~web title https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/602
19:37 ShadowBot red-001: Add access privilege that allows players to bypass protection. by red-001 · Pull Request #602 · minetest/minetest_game · GitHub
19:52 sofar when is special_tiles ever used?
19:53 sofar oh, I see, only glasslike and liquid drawtypes
19:53 kaadmy and torches
19:54 kaadmy animated textures, no backface culling(water, maybe glass)
19:54 kaadmy and iirc it's deprecated
19:54 kaadmy ah, ignore the above ^
19:54 kaadmy it's not deprecated
19:55 RealBadAngel special_tiles are rarely used
19:55 RealBadAngel at the start they were used just for water
19:56 RealBadAngel and didnt have the same count as regular tiles at all
19:56 RealBadAngel ive raised that to hold 6 too
19:57 RealBadAngel most intuitive use of special tiles shall be alternative to regular tiles, switched by param2
19:57 RealBadAngel this way, all nodes that would require two states, will become single nodedef
19:58 sofar which doesn't work for facedir paramtype2
19:58 Fixer paramat, https://i.imgur.com/3U5mvou.png , https://i.imgur.com/jkULszw.png %)
19:58 RealBadAngel sofar, param2 doesnt occupy all the bits
19:58 Fixer paramat, stationary, not moving
19:58 * paramat looks
19:58 RealBadAngel MSB of param2 is free in all cases
19:59 sofar RealBadAngel: yeah, that's not bad. 5 bits for rotation, what bits for special_tiles then?
19:59 RealBadAngel 1
19:59 RealBadAngel MSB just
19:59 sofar &= 128?
19:59 sofar |= 128?
19:59 RealBadAngel that can be common for all the drawtypes
20:00 RealBadAngel MSB == Most Significant Bit
20:00 RealBadAngel so 7th
20:00 paramat messy. i just dropped water and lava using my PR, 2 clean columns that just stop and don't spread, no stone
20:00 Fixer paramat, now, try reactivating it %)
20:01 paramat that's the hard bit
20:01 red-001 paramat what do you mean by what hmmmmm tried?
20:01 RealBadAngel sofar, only glasslike framed is using all the bits, thats why i streched volume params for it
20:01 red-001 hmmmm didn' comment on my PR
20:02 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/2977#issuecomment-171904091
20:02 paramat hmmmmm == kwolekr
20:02 red-001 ohhh
20:02 ShadowBot joined #minetest-dev
20:03 * red-001 thinks thats confusing
20:03 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1601
20:03 sofar unmerged patch
20:03 Fixer paramat, did you watch my link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j63mDfJ5rww go to 0:30 you will see how it can be
20:04 RealBadAngel content mapblock changes are fixes for glasslike framed
20:04 RealBadAngel rest is actual change
20:04 paramat watching
20:04 sofar split the PR up
20:04 RealBadAngel now imagine furnace changing state from active to inactive just by setting a param2 bit
20:04 sofar don't mix a fix and a feature
20:04 paramat OMG
20:04 ShadowBot joined #minetest-dev
20:05 RealBadAngel no more two separate nodedefs and mixing them
20:05 RealBadAngel single code for both states
20:05 RealBadAngel and furnace is just a weak example
20:05 red-001 thats just awesome
20:06 RealBadAngel see number of mesecons nodedefs
20:06 RealBadAngel and cut them by half with a few lines of code
20:06 red-001 how is the connected nodes PR sofar?
20:06 sofar red-001: I think it'll get merged as-is
20:07 sofar there's a few more cleanups but nothing stopping the functionality at this point
20:07 RealBadAngel sofar, i would like to play with it a bit, would you mind?
20:07 sofar after that minetest_game will get new fences and I'll add walls too
20:07 sofar code is up there, please, feel free to play
20:07 sofar there's a gist linked int he PR with lua code
20:07 RealBadAngel ok
20:08 RealBadAngel im more of the modder than the rest of the devs
20:08 red-001 would it be better if beds where a mesh?
20:08 RealBadAngel im lookin at actual usage of the code
20:08 RealBadAngel not the whities
20:08 sofar two beds in minetest_game is kind of silly
20:08 Fixer paramat, that is 0.4.12, but notice how many very weird liquid bugs (like that wide water column hanging like a table or 90deg table), not only over ignore (btw all that rock was made with lava+water iirc)
20:08 sofar I kind of prefer the mesh one
20:09 red-001 It could be just a nodebox right?
20:09 sofar no, it can't
20:09 sofar nodeboxes can't texture outside 1x1x1
20:09 red-001 ohh I forgot
20:10 sofar besides you need to make a decent UV map to make it usable for modders
20:10 red-001 thats something that should be fixed
20:10 paramat well my liquids PR is tested enough i'll merge it later
20:10 sofar can't, really
20:14 Fixer paramat, have you tried catch_up = true ? %) also remove neighbors = {"air"}, maybe that will help
20:14 sofar hmm, does anyone know of a way to share sound files ?
20:17 sofar do we allow CC-BY-NC 3.0 in minetest?
20:19 sofar or CC0?
20:19 sofar damn, I may have to find new sound bites
20:19 Fixer sofar, freesounds?
20:19 Fixer sofar, http://freesound.org/
20:19 sofar that's where I got the sounds from
20:19 sofar but I don't want to share them forever
20:19 sofar just to show them to folks for a sec
20:20 kaadmy CC0 is allowed
20:20 kaadmy iirc ^
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20:20 sofar CC0 == technically public domain, which isn't allowed
20:21 sofar https://clyp.it/fve52azi
20:22 sofar https://clyp.it/zfveubot
20:22 sofar I made those 2 sounds for chest open/close sounds
20:22 kaadmy nice
20:23 red-001 isn't public domain not allowed beacuse it doesn't exist in all country's?
20:23 sofar yeah, I have to remix the two sound bites out that are not appropriately licensed
20:24 sofar I think one will be easy to replace
20:24 kaadmy https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&t=1271
20:24 kaadmy it says CC0 is allowed for mods
20:24 sofar I don't intend to make this a mod
20:24 sofar I intend to merge it into minetest_game
20:25 red-001 walking on snow should be a LOT quieter
20:25 VanessaE CC) is allowed, because "public domain" as a phrase doesn't exist.  so CC0 is an explicit declaration of the equivalent as it's defined in e.g. the US.
20:25 VanessaE CC0*
20:25 kaadmy "must be compatible with LGPLv2.1 if inclusion to upstream is desired: LGPL, BSD, WTFPL, CC0"
20:25 sofar VanessaE: ahhh yes, now I see
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20:25 red-001 currently if you use headphones snow is dangerous to your hearing
20:25 sofar VanessaE: how about the NC?
20:25 VanessaE that's fine too
20:26 VanessaE ND is not allowed though
20:26 sofar red-001: do you suggest making the sound softer?
20:26 red-001 yes
20:26 VanessaE actually, strike that, NC might be disallowed
20:26 red-001 and quieter
20:26 VanessaE (because MT's license was chosen to explicitly allow commercial use)
20:27 sofar VanessaE: yeah, NC kind of goes against lgpl spirit
20:27 sofar VanessaE: I'll replace that one then
20:27 VanessaE ok.
20:27 sofar VanessaE: do you like the sounds in general? I think it'll be nice to have them
20:27 VanessaE I have not listened.
20:27 VanessaE I'll leave that to others.
20:31 sofar grrr, how can I listen to sound bites when my son is watching MC videos next to me XD
20:33 sofar ooo I found a really nice creak sound
20:38 red-001 http://freesound.org/peopl​e/mparsons99/sounds/94619/
20:38 red-001 thats a better snow sound imo
20:38 red-001 it doesn't sound like snow being punched
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20:40 sofar I should have recorder some snow steps last week
20:41 sofar we had 8" of cracky, frozen snow on our forest lot
20:41 red-001 so 20 cm?
20:41 sofar correct :)
20:42 red-001 thats a lot
20:43 red-001 or this http://freesound.org/people/mwirth/sounds/137172/
20:44 sofar that's terrible, lol
20:44 sofar the first one isn't bad
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21:09 celeron55 what if i go out there in the -27°C that we have and record some snow sounds
21:10 sofar celeron55: sounds or it didn't happen!
21:10 sofar ;)
21:10 celeron55 i guess this might be a case where the sounds people expect are not realistic at all and that would be the wrong way of creating them
21:10 sofar celeron55: tbh the current snow sounds imho are fine, maybe we should de-amplify them a bit
21:11 sofar I don't think the sounds should be realistic at all
21:11 sofar they should be *suggestive*
21:11 sofar it's more about the atmosphere
21:13 celeron55 i don't have a world with snow available to me at the moment but IIRC the snow sound in mt_game was fine, maybe too loud like you said though
21:16 sofar hmmm, they're fairly loud indeed
21:16 sofar let's try -3dB
21:20 sofar yeah, that works for me
21:24 sofar red-001: celeron55: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/792
21:24 sofar I think 3dB is enough, more would make them too soft, this takes the "edge" off
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21:33 paramat yes snow is too loud, that needed to be done
21:33 sofar I compared it to an opening door as reference
21:33 sofar it's noticably softer now
21:33 sofar I don't want to make it too soft
21:34 sofar and 3dB is half the sound volume
21:35 paramat why not reduce volume in the node definition?
21:35 paramat gain = 0.15 or something
21:36 sofar hmmm, I never understood the gain value
21:36 sofar but, that's an option
21:36 paramat easier to tweak too
21:37 sofar yeah I'll change my PR
21:38 paramat i like how our sounds are fairly 'cartoony', unrealistic and humourous, like the ice/glass sound 'ping ping ping'
21:38 paramat suits the abstract world
21:41 paramat better quality too to keep the sound file full volume and reduce the gain
21:41 sofar right
21:41 sofar plus the digging sounds were ridic loud
21:41 sofar so, I'll lower those as well
21:43 paramat yes
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22:34 Fixer !tell paramat https://i.imgur.com/jO6dOFT.png notice right side, it hangs in step-like fashion, not even spread out
22:34 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K.
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22:42 red-001 fixer afaik that is casued by how every node calls transforming_liquid_add when it updates it self and then the next node does the same
22:42 red-001 all those nodes are updating each other
22:46 Fixer red-001, updating? they are not moving
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