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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-12-31

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 gregorycu Well written python code looks very simple
00:00 gregorycu But under the covers it is not
00:01 cmdskp Just don't get me started on COBOL, Fortran or the hideous Prolog language...*shudders*
00:01 gregorycu I've decided to branch minetest and add python scripting support, just haven't got around to it :) (Not expecting this work to be merged into main)
00:01 cmdskp that last one wraps your head up and twists your spinal column inside-out and recurses it backwards...
00:01 kaadmy Malboge anyone?
00:03 paramat now merging to game
00:04 cmdskp happy merging! :)
00:04 cmdskp we really needs some more code holiday spirit...
00:08 paramat merged
00:10 Fixer any news about water over ignore problem?
00:10 red-001 no
00:11 red-001 it's a hard problem
00:11 red-001 there are easy fixes
00:12 paramat ah, gregorycu, hmmmmm isn't active so work on the water-ignore thing would be appreciated if you feel like it
00:12 red-001 but water is just not done well
00:12 gregorycu Bug report?
00:13 paramat the thing you almost started working on before
00:13 gregorycu Fixed, which problem are you talking about?
00:13 red-001 read this discussion https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2977
00:14 red-001 and this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2767
00:14 gregorycu Ok, that one
00:14 paramat yeah 2977, the method suggested by hmmmmm
00:14 gregorycu Jeez, nothing has happened with that
00:14 red-001 when water reaches ignore
00:14 red-001 it flows over it
00:14 gregorycu kwolekr's solution
00:14 gregorycu Yeah
00:15 red-001 well
00:15 red-001 the problem is you how to up date the nodes
00:15 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3493 any oppinions on this one?
00:15 red-001 if the user restart the server
00:16 red-001 so some sort of queue  that gets saved
00:16 red-001 or metadata
00:17 gregorycu Another solution is that when a block is loaded, it simply calls transform liquids on all liquids that are touching that block
00:17 gregorycu (Rather queues them)
00:17 red-001 well appertly that is too reasource hungery
00:17 red-001 to PilzAdam that is
00:18 gregorycu Water is faster than it used to be
00:18 red-001 yeah
00:18 red-001 it is
00:18 gregorycu I made it faster
00:18 gregorycu So maybe that gives us some wiggle room
00:19 gregorycu I think what you suggested isn't exactly what I suggested
00:19 red-001 I will try to do something with this when I have a chance
00:19 red-001 you are welcome to do it if you want to
00:19 gregorycu I am saying that when a block is loaded, queue the water touching that block, to be done by the transform liquids thread
00:19 red-001 yes
00:19 paramat on the subject https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3501 'Liquids: Flush non walkable and buildable_to nodes away'
00:20 gregorycu I think you suggested doing it in the load of the block (on the same thread)
00:20 red-001 on the subject of PR If was told to show this to you
00:20 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/667
00:21 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/602
00:21 red-001 paramat
00:22 paramat yeah i've seen, you've posted the links many times :) if i don't comment it's because i'm neutral or too busy to review
00:23 red-001 ok thanks
00:23 gregorycu Before I switch over to this water thing, with regards to the lighting perf, I use a vector instead of a set, a vector will have bad performance if it has to reallocate lots, which may explain why a massive 112^3 chunk may be slow
00:23 red-001 sometimes I wonder are you offline
00:24 paramat ok most schematics are much smaller, so my test is unusual
00:24 gregorycu Apparently something near that is common with mapgens
00:24 paramat no mapgen uses a different faster 'spreadLight'
00:25 paramat in mapgen.cpp
00:25 gregorycu Well, i want to prove this is the cause
00:25 gregorycu If it is, I can simply make the vector reserve the chunk size
00:25 gregorycu Which means 4MB worth of vector in your case
00:26 paramat cool
00:26 red-001 so where does mapblock loading happen?
00:26 gregorycu I know you're busy, what % of the 1.4 million blocks were lights?
00:27 gregorycu Or rather, light sources
00:27 paramat erm 350 of those
00:27 gregorycu Not that much, really
00:28 paramat i've added comments to your PR
00:28 gregorycu Yeah, going through them
00:28 paramat ok
00:28 gregorycu red-001: EmergeThread::run
00:29 red-001 thanks
00:29 gregorycu Servermap::LoadBlock
00:29 red-001 so thats what the server calls when I wants to load a new block into memory?
00:29 red-001 it*
00:30 gregorycu Well
00:30 gregorycu It's the thing that does it
00:30 gregorycu It's async
00:30 red-001 ok
00:30 gregorycu Not sure what code kicks off the process for a block
00:31 * red-001 wish there was a bit more documentation
00:31 gregorycu With regards to the issue, how the hell is this meant to work with oceans
00:31 gregorycu Where the bottom of the ocean may not be loaded
00:31 red-001 yeah
00:32 red-001 thats one of the problems
00:32 red-001 blow up part of an ocean with overpowerd TNT
00:32 red-001 and see how bad liquid bugs get
00:33 gregorycu What is an ocean?
00:33 gregorycu It's whatever the mapgen decides it is
00:33 red-001 :)
00:33 gregorycu A mapgen can cause it to end
00:33 cmdskp that sounds intriguing...
00:33 gregorycu Abruptly
00:33 gregorycu And form a waterfall
00:33 gregorycu Deliberatly
00:34 * red-001 finds overpowered tnt a *bit* too fun
00:34 red-001 well that world is gone now
00:35 red-001 in the name of testing
00:36 gregorycu Actually, I may be wrong here
00:36 red-001 yeah
00:36 red-001 it doesn't look right
00:37 red-001 can't find Servermap::LoadBlock
00:37 cmdskp TNT-making water instead of air?  ;)
00:37 gregorycu ServerMap::loadBlock
00:37 gregorycu line 3361 of map.cpp
00:39 red-001 ?
00:39 red-001 nvm
00:39 cmdskp abort();?
00:40 red-001 the line number in my file were wrong
00:40 gregorycu Sorry
00:40 red-001 it wasn't minetest/master
00:40 red-001 thats why
00:41 red-001 not your fault
00:43 red-001 there are 4 loadblock functions....
00:43 red-001 extreme overloading?
00:46 cmdskp I must be out-of-date - only 3 showing up in the .h file
00:46 gregorycu loadBlock(v3s16 blockpos) calls loadBlock(std::string *blob, v3s16 p3d, MapSector *sector, bool save_after_load)
00:46 red-001 yeah it's 3
00:47 red-001 no 4
00:47 gregorycu I don't know where the other 2 are called
00:48 gregorycu Or other 1
00:48 red-001 I have 2 more
00:48 gregorycu Are you not looking at minetest/master again?
00:48 red-001 yeah sorry
00:48 red-001 my bad
00:49 red-001 void ServerMap::loadBlock(std::string *blob, v3s16 p3d, MapSector *sector, bool save_after_load)
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00:53 red-001 gets called https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/c56d7fe​0eba7905b0a63c4a1cfe909988653c23d/src/map.h#L492
01:04 cmdskp @red-001: typo 'is give'->'is given,' and style-guide, I believe says a space after -- in all comments? https://github.com/red-001/minetest_​game/blob/tnt-api/game_api.txt#L405
01:05 cmdskp "The radius in"->"The radius within"
01:05 cmdskp oh quit =) sorry
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02:19 gregorycu Fuck me more trees has significant perf issues
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02:20 gregorycu <gregorycu> Fuck me more trees has significant perf issues
02:20 VanessaE gregorycu: aside from the mapgen lag added by biome_lib ?
02:20 VanessaE the engine's spawn_tree() call has performance issues in the lighting code.
02:20 gregorycu Signifiant
02:21 gregorycu Damn, this is bad
02:21 VanessaE how bad?
02:21 VanessaE and where exactly?
02:21 gregorycu 33% CPU time spent in std::tree::insert
02:21 VanessaE ah
02:21 gregorycu (Trees are not related... lol)
02:22 gregorycu I
02:22 VanessaE drill down a bit and you'll probably find that it's the lighting updates that are called within the function :)
02:22 gregorycu I can see it's lighting
02:22 paramat gregorycu could you wait a day or 2 before working on transformLiquids? i have a commit for that i'd like to merge first
02:22 gregorycu I think red is working on it
02:22 gregorycu I'll post a screenshot, one moment
02:23 gregorycu (for V, so she can see what I can see)
02:24 VanessaE (and now I've got that damned christmas song in my head :P )
02:25 gregorycu I'll even save the screenshot as a png
02:25 VanessaE heh
02:26 paramat problem is l-system treegen has a lighting update for every tree, so it's meant to be used occasionally after mapgen, not multiple times during mapgen
02:26 VanessaE paramat: actually, it was expressly meant to be used during mapgen
02:26 gregorycu I have a feeling a can improve performance here, drastically
02:26 VanessaE but your point stands.
02:27 gregorycu I can improve *
02:27 paramat i think l-system auto emerges 3x3x5 mapblocks per tree
02:28 VanessaE paramat: you sure?  I Was under the impression it was 1x3x1
02:28 gregorycu http://s27.postimg.org/x0a6dkz8z/perf_wow.png
02:29 gregorycu Look at that shit
02:30 VanessaE ouch
02:30 VanessaE even I can read that
02:30 gregorycu Inclusive samples represent the total CPU time spent doing something
02:30 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/treegen.cpp#L124
02:30 paramat -(1,1,1) to +(1,3,1)
02:30 gregorycu paramat: What does proprigateSunlight do vs spreadLight ?
02:31 paramat propagates light level 15 downwards per column, it's simpler and faster than spreadlight
02:31 gregorycu lol
02:31 gregorycu I beg to differ
02:31 VanessaE we need a whole new propagation and projection method for lighting
02:32 paramat hm it should be simpler, odd
02:33 VanessaE there's no reason that a shadow should be able to, for example, propagate hundreds of meters straight down.  and light should be able to project farther than ~16m or whatever it is (and start out a LOT brighter)
02:33 gregorycu 99.5% of propagateSunlight is std::_Tree<...>::_Insert_nohint
02:33 gregorycu You know what that means
02:33 VanessaE in the real world, light and shadow get more and more diffuse the further they get from the source.  MT needs this somehow.
02:33 VanessaE gregorycu: what?
02:34 gregorycu That was directed at paramat, but a similar optimisation I did to spreadLight could be done to paroagate light
02:35 gregorycu Fuck my spelling today
02:35 VanessaE heh.  well at least you don't have to argue with auto-correct.
02:37 paramat ideally treegen during mapgen would generate multiple trees in the mapchunk then do a single lighting update, if l-system treegen was meant for mapgen it is badly designed
02:37 VanessaE paramat: what about caching the lighting update calls and only committing them when the destination mapblocks change?
02:38 paramat currently it's only suitable for occasional saplings growing after mapgen
02:38 VanessaE cache|sort|uniq --> commit at the next non-equal mapblock that is
02:38 gregorycu Wasn't there an API to hold off lighting updates?
02:38 gregorycu What I need to be able to do is spawn a tree on demand
02:39 gregorycu A big tree
02:39 VanessaE might be, but neither biome_lib nor moretrees can use it as they have no way to know which mapblocks are about to be written to once spawn_tree() is called.
02:40 gregorycu ok
02:40 gregorycu Well, I really want to fix this slowness
02:40 paramat 'spawn_ltree' should spawn a tree on demand
02:40 paramat and use the giant sequoia from moretrees
02:40 gregorycu Is there a way to generate a flat world?
02:41 paramat .. or whatever is biggest
02:41 paramat yes
02:41 paramat in mgv6, 'mgv6_spflags = flat' in .conf
02:42 gregorycu Thank you
02:42 paramat or set that in settings
02:43 paramat propagate sunlight only drops sunlight down each column until a solid node, it should be much faster than spreadLight AFAIK
02:44 paramat perhaps it's broken
02:45 gregorycu prop adds heaps of blocks to a std::set
02:45 gregorycu Which is the slow part
02:45 VanessaE in terms of tallest, I think the jungle tree might *just* squeak past the sequioa.  in terms of most nodes written, that might be the oak.
02:45 gregorycu As I said, apparently 99.5% of the cost of prop
02:47 paramat updateLighting is known to be slow, so any improvement is very welcome
02:48 gregorycu I had to make sure my other lighting fixes are good first
02:49 gregorycu I have
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03:08 paramat if l-system trees were smaller, <16 nodes in any direction, they would fit inside the mapgen's voxelmanip and only the mapgen's own lighting update would be needed. but of course they need to be larger
03:12 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3501 'Liquids: Flow into and destroy airlike drawtype nodes' almost ready i just need to test. bbl
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03:18 gregorycu V: with Lua, how do I call this from my mod? moretrees:grow_jungletree(pointed_thing.above)
03:18 gregorycu V = VanessaE
03:19 VanessaE er
03:20 VanessaE I'm not sure I understand the question
03:20 * VanessaE looks at her code
03:20 VanessaE actually it's more or less just that.
03:21 VanessaE except use a period, not a colon.
03:23 VanessaE and of course make sure you put moretrees? into your depends.txt
03:23 gregorycu Yeah, I forgot that step lol
03:23 gregorycu Hooray, I can spawn trees
03:23 gregorycu I has the power
03:23 VanessaE good deal
03:23 VanessaE oh shit
03:23 VanessaE he has power
03:25 gregorycu Very cool
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04:09 gregorycu hmm...
04:09 gregorycu PropagateSunlight doesn't seem to be as bad with the latest tests
04:24 gregorycu Did est ever fix up the settings?
04:24 VanessaE no idea.
04:25 VanessaE I know, I'm real fricken' helpful huh :)
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04:25 VanessaE it's all HIS fault! ^^^
04:25 VanessaE :)
04:27 paramat it is
04:28 VanessaE just nod and say "ok", paramat  :)
04:28 VanessaE (really though, greg continues to investigate the lighting perf issue)
05:04 hmmmm lol
05:04 * VanessaE looks at hmmmm
05:04 hmmmm add a dynamic hardware light to the scene for sunlight and then you don't ever need to call propogateSunlight() again
05:05 VanessaE true
05:05 hmmmm there's the ultimate optimization - it looks better too
05:05 VanessaE but who's gonna DO it?
05:05 hmmmm the fastest code is code that doesn't run
05:05 hmmmm not me hehe
05:05 hmmmm it's quite easy to do though
05:07 VanessaE well server-side you'd still need the old lighting code wouldn't you?
05:07 hmmmm for mods that rely on it, I guess so
05:08 VanessaE (for that matter, client too if/when client-side Lua comes about)
05:08 hmmmm ugh
05:08 VanessaE is it possible to let opengl do all the work and then query the rendered results?
05:09 VanessaE (assume for the moment that the server has a full opengl stack etc)
05:09 hmmmm instead of holding MT back I'd rather implement light level query by casting a ray
05:09 hmmmm I think so yeah
05:09 hmmmm for obvious reasons that's not plausible however
05:10 gregorycu Wouldn't opengl be doing the work every frame?
05:10 hmmmm hmm
05:10 gregorycu I know it's in hardware
05:10 gregorycu At the moment the work is done in software when there are block changes
05:10 VanessaE well when a mod needs a light leven somewhere, doesn't it generally have to operate on mapblocks that are not just loaded, but being displayed by someone's client?
05:10 VanessaE level*
05:11 VanessaE hm, strike that.
05:11 hmmmm that's possible but what if that part of the scene isn't being rendered by any clients and the mod still needs it
05:11 VanessaE that doesn't account for force-loaded/anchored blocks.
05:11 hmmmm i kinda figured you were going to mention that
05:11 VanessaE yeah, just thought about that.
05:11 hmmmm the only problem with the raycasting light level query would be that you'd need to calculate radiance of all the surrounding materials in the scene to get an accurate light level other than direct sunlight or shadow
05:11 VanessaE besides, you can't trust the client(s) anyway
05:12 hmmmm if you can live with that limitation you should be good to go
05:12 VanessaE RBA was telling me about a hardware-assisted lighting method he found that has unlimited light sources.
05:13 hmmmm eh
05:13 hmmmm it doesn't exist
05:13 hmmmm he's probably talking about lightmaps but that has its own set of technical problems
05:13 VanessaE [12-29 06:52] <RealBadAngel> https://bitbucket.org/entity/ir​rrenderer/commits/branch/master
05:13 VanessaE (lots of discussion surrounding it; the license is compatible with MT and it does apparently build and link okay)
05:15 hmmmm oh i see
05:15 hmmmm the point of irrenderer is that it has deferred shading capabilities
05:15 VanessaE yeah
05:15 hmmmm basically I think what RBA is hinting at is that he wants to do more work in the shaders
05:16 VanessaE [12-29 13:25] <RealBadAngel> http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/forwa​rd-rendering-vs-deferred-rendering--gamedev-12342
05:16 VanessaE hr brogght this up
05:16 VanessaE brought*
05:16 VanessaE oh G*d I can't type
05:16 hmmmm he wants to have everything fully lit and then cast shadows afterwards
05:16 VanessaE well, to be perfectly fair, this IS what shaders were meant for.
05:16 hmmmm eh
05:16 VanessaE though casting shadows and other such things is probably too much right now
05:17 hmmmm well if he can do it and in a non-hacky manner, that's great
05:17 hmmmm i think minetest would benefit more if we were to switch to a more modern graphics engine instead of some custom hacked up irrlicht
05:18 VanessaE others tend to agree
05:18 hmmmm shadow casting isn't going to help do what we want to do though
05:18 VanessaE which reminds me, Zeno is back
05:18 hmmmm the ultimate end game is to have basically infinite dynamic full color lights
05:18 VanessaE not sure if you saw
05:18 hmmmm no I didn't see
05:19 hmmmm right anyway
05:19 hmmmm I feel like a good middle ground for now would be to come up with an algorithm to determine which light sources are the most significant in a given scene, and then trim out any of them that can't be rendered
05:19 hmmmm and just use hardware dynamic lights
05:20 hmmmm that would give us full RGB hardware lighting with a minimal amount of code
05:20 VanessaE that's not the ones that are limited to 8 lights is it?
05:20 hmmmm different cards have different limits
05:20 hmmmm it is though
05:20 VanessaE 8 is some opengl limit
05:20 hmmmm oh that stinks
05:20 VanessaE nevertheless, that'll fail hard, sorry to say.
05:21 hmmmm why..?
05:21 VanessaE I think that sort of lighting was meant for e.g. sun and moon
05:21 hmmmm it's meant to be used sparingly
05:21 VanessaE because in an average Minetest world, there are often hundreds of light sources on screen.
05:21 hmmmm FWIW many games use the strategy I mentioned
05:21 hmmmm of course there are hundreds, but not all of them contribute significantly whatsoever to the scene
05:22 VanessaE well that's kinda iffy really
05:22 VanessaE imagine a street running into the distance, lights every 10 meters
05:23 VanessaE with a moderate view range of 100 meters, you've already got 10-20 sources visible (depending on the construction of the street lights)
05:28 hmmmm it'd probably be the closest 8 or so
05:28 hmmmm again, all i'm proposing is a simple partial solution to our lighting
05:28 VanessaE just doing it for the sun and moon would greatly help I'm sure
05:29 hmmmm what RBA wants to do will work if it's grealy simplified
05:29 hmmmm but if it's to be done the correct way, he'd essentially need to solve the radiosity problem for N light sources 60 times a second
05:29 hmmmm that's hard
05:29 VanessaE yeah
05:34 VanessaE it's weird, as our discussion started from that whole issue surrounding "extruded" plantlike
05:35 VanessaE he tried my/stu's "just stack up a bunch of 2d layers" idea; it works to some degree but isn't good enough in his mind :)
05:41 * sofar walks away from the computer for a bit
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07:52 gregorycu What is G*d ?
07:55 gregorycu Never mind, I just googled it
07:56 gregorycu Just say "God". If that upsets people, they are not adjusted well. If that upsets God, he is not adjusted well.
08:01 VanessaE gregorycu: it's a Jewish custom of obscuring the name so as not to give others the opportunity to deface it.
08:02 VanessaE I spell it G*d instead of the usual G-d because some people mistake the latter for goddamn.
08:02 gregorycu But I can just say "Fuck God"
08:02 VanessaE it's a holdover from written communications.  kinda hard to vandalize a name online :P
08:03 gregorycu If God gets pissy at you because someone vandalized something you wrote, he is a douche
08:03 gregorycu I gotta run, new years festivities and all that
08:03 VanessaE anyway offtopic for here
08:04 * gregorycu &
08:04 VanessaE nohup gregorycu
08:04 VanessaE :)
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11:32 rubenwardy Lol: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=14&amp;t=13821&amp;view=unread#unread
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11:37 RealBadAngel hi
11:37 VanessaE hey RBA
11:38 RealBadAngel deffered rendering (lighting) IS about having unlimited number of lightsources
11:38 RealBadAngel not about shadows at all
11:38 VanessaE er, yeah.  we covered that.
11:38 RealBadAngel in fact it cant do any shadows
11:38 VanessaE but whatever it's for, it has to *work* first :)
11:38 VanessaE (read: compile it into MT and put it into use)
11:39 RealBadAngel also, thats impossible to use opengl renderer to calculate lightlevel as we used to it
11:41 RealBadAngel i m done with irrPP right now, playing with postprocessing, will get into renderer after that
11:43 RealBadAngel effects by now are promising, i do have working blur, fxaa,cel and bloom
11:43 VanessaE but what about basic lighting? :-/
11:44 RealBadAngel i will just start with turning off our vertex lighting, add one dynamic sun lightsource
11:45 VanessaE how will that play alongside other light sources like torches?
11:45 RealBadAngel torches are gonna be added with lightmap
11:45 RealBadAngel or whatever is the way with that renderer
11:45 VanessaE ok
11:52 red-001 rubenwardy
11:52 red-001 100 usd to build minetest
11:52 red-001 thats not enough
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13:52 red-001 what does fgettext() do?
13:52 red-001 is it something to do with translation ?
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15:36 realbadangel__ red-001, yeah
15:38 realbadangel__ if theres no locale you will get original, en, otherwise translated strings
15:39 red-001 t
15:39 red-001 thnaks
15:41 red-001 I noticed a strange bug when I place 5 nodes like this http://imgur.com/yzRKhFc I can climb to the top node
15:42 red-001 Is this a known bug?
15:43 RealBadAngel going straight forward and jump?
15:43 red-001 no I held shift
15:44 kaadmy not surprised
15:44 kaadmy sneakjumping is very glitchy
15:45 RealBadAngel AWWW
15:45 RealBadAngel this is insane
15:46 RealBadAngel sneak gives a rocket in the ass when jumpin
15:46 RealBadAngel who the fuck did that?
15:47 RealBadAngel sneak (crouch) should eliminate ability to jump at the same time
15:47 RealBadAngel who the fuck did that logic??
15:48 red-001 is it called sneak jumping and a setting
15:48 red-001 I thought It was disabled by default
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15:52 RealBadAngel imho such behaviour should not be possible at all
15:52 RealBadAngel this is not quake, rocket jumping should not work here
15:52 red-001 well it sure cause some bugs
15:53 RealBadAngel unless theres another player standing behind you and kick you in the ass ;)
15:54 Calinou <+RealBadAngel> sneak (crouch) should eliminate ability to jump at the same time
15:54 Calinou sneaking is not crouching
15:54 Calinou it's akin to walking in a FPS
15:55 Calinou also, in Quake you can't crouch and jump at the same time, attempting to do so will just uncrouch you
15:55 Calinou this does not apply to Xonotic though
15:55 Calinou (also, Quake 1 had no crouching. only walk/run)
15:56 red-001 in source engine games you jump higher if you crouch in the aor
15:56 red-001 air*
15:56 RealBadAngel Calinou, ok, youre right, but look at this again
15:57 Calinou red-001, exactly, crouching in those raises your legs in the air
15:57 gravgun You don't jump higher tho
15:57 RealBadAngel when youre walking slowly, you jump further irl?
15:57 Calinou makes more sense than lowering head (which is what Quake does when you jump then crouch)
15:57 Calinou (Quake 3 allowed crouching while in air, Quake 2 doesn't)
15:57 Calinou RealBadAngel, no you don't
15:58 Calinou sneaking could make jumping not as high maybe
15:58 Calinou (ideally, should be configurable)
15:58 RealBadAngel not at all
15:59 RealBadAngel making everything configureable is leading us to the same place as keeping eternal backwards compability
15:59 Calinou hardcoding is bad m'kay?
15:59 RealBadAngel clusterfuck
15:59 RealBadAngel clusterm'kay
16:00 RealBadAngel imho some things have to be hardcoded
16:00 Calinou I don't think so, we're supposed to be an extensible engine
16:00 red-001 at some point reading minetest.conf,example will be as hard a complying form source
16:00 RealBadAngel we cant make full, realistic phys engine
16:01 RealBadAngel it already is
16:01 red-001 well not on windows
16:01 red-001 on linux yes
16:01 RealBadAngel even other devs are claimin that some things "are barely useable, becasue not on default"
16:02 RealBadAngel and theyre right
16:02 Calinou why don't we use multiple configuration files? or a configuration file with sections?
16:02 red-001 like source engine config files?
16:03 Calinou like PHP, nginx…
16:03 Calinou we can have a configuration file 1) for client, 2) for server, 3) for common settings
16:03 Calinou most games split by type like this already
16:03 RealBadAngel game shall have settings like this: basic, gimme some more, ouch, hardcore
16:04 red-001 and death
16:04 RealBadAngel without users being able to set fsaa sampling rate
16:04 kaadmy RBA: good idea ;)
16:04 RealBadAngel and it should be up to us to decide what we can enable
16:04 RealBadAngel based maybe on some fast client test
16:05 red-001 isn't that the case now?
16:05 RealBadAngel that shouldnt be any hard to check for whats aviable and how fast the client box is
16:05 red-001 I doubt most users check minetest.conf
16:06 RealBadAngel most of the users cannot edit iot
16:06 RealBadAngel *it
16:06 RealBadAngel thats the real problem
16:06 red-001 what is the use of the mod tab
16:07 red-001 all it does is list what is in /mods
16:07 RealBadAngel we are the elite, something whats obvious for us, is way beyond imagination of typical gamer
16:07 red-001 minetest master race?
16:07 RealBadAngel and this is our problem we cant see it
16:07 RealBadAngel no
16:08 RealBadAngel we are coders
16:08 red-001 true
16:08 RealBadAngel players are not
16:08 red-001 !false
16:09 RealBadAngel within my friends, family, customers i used to run google and keep looking for solutions to their problems
16:10 RealBadAngel regular user is dumb enough to not know how to search google even
16:10 RealBadAngel how could you expect him to edit config files?
16:10 red-001 or what to search for
16:10 red-001 you can
16:11 red-001 can't*
16:11 red-001 or use the new settings tab
16:11 RealBadAngel atm our course is developing a product for same freaks as we are
16:12 RealBadAngel eliminating kids, unexperienced or just plain dumb users at the start
16:12 red-001 and not all of us even play it a lot
16:12 RealBadAngel i do
16:13 RealBadAngel im not typical core dev and you know it
16:13 red-001 yeah I know
16:13 RealBadAngel i code for my own gamin pleasure
16:13 red-001 that's why we have awesome things like the minimap?
16:14 RealBadAngel brb, last time to buy something before new year ;)
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16:37 RealBadAngel red-001, im not coding stuff that i cannot see use in game for
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16:40 red-001 is bultin\settingtypes.txt where settings have to be added to be seen on the settings page?
16:41 RealBadAngel yes
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17:21 cmdskp 'Slip'ping on with: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3506
17:27 red-001 does minetest have a lua profiler ?
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17:58 Krock red-001, yes, there's profiler tool ni the builtin code
17:58 red-001 how to use it?
17:58 Krock builtin/game/mod_profiling.lua
17:59 red-001 ok thanks
17:59 Krock profiling_print_log("", "")
17:59 Krock outputs stats
17:59 Krock alright, there's also a minetest.conf setting: detailed_profiling
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19:47 Wayward1 not sure if it's my fault or not, but lately all my builds are failing with "No rule to make target `/usr/lib/libGL.so', needed by `bin/minetest'."
19:47 Wayward1 any ideas?
19:48 red-001 you need opengl?
19:48 red-001 what os  do you have?
19:49 cmdskp sounds like the path is wrong to libGL in the make
19:51 red-001 the mod tab in main menu is useless
19:51 Wayward1 i've had all the dependencies installed for a while. come to think of it, i did update a few recently...
19:52 Wayward1 linux mint 17.2 btw
19:52 cmdskp probably the updates have moved the lib into a different (sub)folder, perhaps?
19:53 Wayward1 hmm, could be. i'll check
19:55 red-001 You can't even delate mods form it
19:55 cmdskp it's only for turning them(or parts of them) on/off
19:55 cmdskp It would be nice to be able to delete
19:55 red-001 the mods tab?
19:55 red-001 it's in the main menu
19:56 red-001 at the top left beside credits
19:56 cmdskp oh, I see it seems bugged
19:56 cmdskp I usually use the Configure button to access the mods
19:56 Wayward1 cmdskp: that was it, thanks. found it in a system-wide search
19:56 red-001 it just lists mods and there depends and the delate button doesn't work
19:57 red-001 cmdskp
19:57 red-001 so do I
19:57 cmdskp Oh, I get it!  It shows a description and screenshot as well
19:58 red-001 imo it should get merged with the configure opitions
19:58 cmdskp It could become more useful if it looked up a repository of mods and listed them...
19:58 red-001 It used to
19:58 cmdskp similar to how servers tab works
19:58 cmdskp ah
19:58 red-001 the database is gone
19:58 cmdskp that's a pity
19:58 red-001 yeah
19:59 red-001 It looks better then the mod configure options
20:00 red-001 It could be used to replace them
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21:55 cmdskp Is it normal when runnning minetest to have a stream in Visual Studio Output(but not the console window) of exception: SettingNotFoundException at memory location 0x...?
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22:53 RealBadAngel Happy New year!
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23:00 kaadmy happy new year!
23:07 red-001 It's an hour away here
23:15 kaadmy about 9 hours for me ;)
23:23 red-001 what timezone do you live in?
23:25 kaadmy red-001: UTC-8
23:26 * red-001 thought UTC-8 was UTC+8
23:35 red-001 there is a bug that causes minetest to lock the cursor to the center of the screen after loading the client even if the minetest window is not active
23:35 red-001 does this happen to anyone else?
23:36 red-001 there is no way to unlock the cursor
23:36 red-001 but logout
23:37 rubenwardy That happens to me sometimes, but I can pause the game and free the cursor?
23:38 red-001 I can't
23:38 red-001 not usually
23:39 rubenwardy What OS do you use?
23:39 red-001 windows 7
23:40 red-001 are you on linux?
23:40 kaadmy red-001: doesn't happen for me, but I use Linux. I just Ctrl+Alt+F1 and type `kill minetest` :)
23:40 kaadmy after i log in, of course ;)
23:40 rubenwardy Ah. I use the XFCE dekstop environment and ubuntu. So xubuntu
23:40 rubenwardy Linux
23:40 red-001 yeah I rember it happening a few times on linux too
23:41 red-001 at least 'esc' worked there
23:41 kaadmy i also use i3, so I can also just do Mod+Q
23:41 kaadmy actually Mod+Shift+Q
23:42 red-001 what does that do?
23:42 red-001 mod as in 'alt' key?
23:42 kaadmy my mod key is currently the Super/Windows key closes the currently selected window ;)
23:42 red-001 ahh
23:43 kaadmy with my window manager only tho..
23:43 kaadmy on windows, does Alt+F4(i think) work?
23:43 red-001 well I have the multiple virtual desktops so it's ok for me
23:43 red-001 but I don't think a lot of people have that on windows
23:43 kaadmy i have keybindings to do almost everything, so the mouse being captured in an invisible window is trivial ;)
23:44 kaadmy or i can run `xkill`
23:44 red-001 of course
23:47 red-001 well I think I found a way to reproduce it
23:48 red-001 start minetest let it start loading and then leave the window maximized and open an other window
23:51 kaadmy nope, that doesn't happen for me
23:54 red-001 well what distro do you use?
23:55 kaadmy fork of Debian called Kali
23:55 red-001 It happend to me a few times in Mint a ubuntu based distro
23:55 kaadmy with i3 as a WM, Gnome might have the problem though
23:56 red-001 mint uses a clone if Gnome
23:56 red-001 cinnamon
23:58 red-001 happy new year
23:59 red-001 to everyone in GMT

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