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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-12-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 VanessaE sofar: well grass is something of a special case - it really needs some kind of procedural texture
00:00 sofar tbh what needs to be done is a complete overhaul over the entire default texture pack, all at once
00:00 sofar I've been building a texture pack myself, replaced all stone, cobble, grasses, leaves so far
00:00 sofar results are quite good
00:01 sofar if only the normal maps would cooperate, they mess it up
00:01 sofar I'm forced to ship "flat" normalmaps
00:02 sofar VanessaE: I somewhat disagree, dirt and stone textures also need to have the same level of attention to detail as they're found repeating for long lengths everywhere
00:02 sofar but sure, grass flats top it
00:02 VanessaE well those, too
00:03 VanessaE I played hell getting good textures for HDX for those three
00:03 sofar I also think that there's way too many transparent pixes in all the leaves
00:03 VanessaE for the same reason - the more detail and uniqueness the texture has, the worse it looked when tiled.
00:03 sofar so I'm reducing those, and it looks a lot better to me
00:05 sofar http://i.imgur.com/AO33IPe.jpg
00:05 sofar quick shot of what I have now
00:05 sofar my jungle leaves texture and normal leaves texture need a bit more work, but they're getting there
00:06 sofar http://i.imgur.com/1azzdXf.png
00:06 sofar that has my new cobble stone
00:08 sofar http://i.imgur.com/jQVGjdr.png some more stones altogether
00:09 VanessaE leaves are too thick imho
00:09 VanessaE the cobble looks good
00:09 VanessaE about the same as what we already have though
00:09 VanessaE much more definition than before though, which is good
00:10 VanessaE the stone and desert stone are too plain
00:10 VanessaE sandstone also; the stuff I grew up drawing on the sidewalk, for example, looks nothing like what you have there
00:10 VanessaE sand is too "regular".  needs waves or something, like the old sand has
00:10 sofar http://i.imgur.com/MQpkORs.png
00:11 sofar absolutely hate the waving in the current sand texture
00:11 VanessaE *shakes head* don't like those at all really.
00:11 sofar exactly, they're my style
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00:11 sofar all together they do quite well
00:14 sofar http://i.imgur.com/K5K168X.png - grasses & dirts
00:14 VanessaE looks a bit MC'ish
00:14 VanessaE but the dry grass on the left doesn't look dry enough :P
00:14 sofar consequence of adding some styling
00:15 sofar I prefer the pale green to the dead yellow
00:15 sofar dead yellow grass doesn't ever grow :)
00:17 sofar some people will hate it
00:17 VanessaE I hate it ;)
00:17 VanessaE tbh it kinda looks....pukey.
00:18 sofar http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/12/cert​ain-customers-spell-doom-for-new-products/
00:18 sofar you're one of those :^)
00:20 VanessaE :P
00:20 VanessaE meanwhile I develop HDX. :P
00:20 VanessaE so your argument is invalid :)
00:30 sofar the part where some people love it, and some won't still is entirely valid
00:31 sofar I hate hdx textures
00:31 sofar everything is a cube but I can see a worm in the apple texture
00:32 sofar If that's your style, enjoy it
00:32 sofar there's nothing wrong with looking at MC's style either
00:32 sofar they've done a fucking fantastic job styling
00:33 sofar I'd be dumb not to steal some ideas from that
00:33 sofar ;)
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01:42 kaadmy sofar: i still like those textures, but maybe too flat on some textures, and too sharp for some.. the tree trunk end textures look too sharp
01:42 kaadmy doesn't fit with the rest
01:42 sofar right, the square trunk rings don't fit yet
01:43 sofar tbh the default textures for trunk tops are pretty good
01:43 kaadmy and i like the "fuzz" grass, sticking 1+ node high is ugly imo
01:44 sofar sorry, what do you mean by that?
01:44 kaadmy and jungle wood should be greener
01:44 kaadmy for fuzz grass, i meant short grass(1-3 px) that's over the whole node
01:46 sofar the grass_1 texture is still only 3-4 pixels high, if that's what you mean
01:47 kaadmy yes
01:47 kaadmy minetest_game's default grass textures look stiff/rigid
01:48 kaadmy i like the smoother grass style
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02:52 RealBadAngel sofar, what was your problem with normalmaps again?
02:53 sofar making them
02:54 RealBadAngel what are you using to make them?
02:54 sofar well I tried the gimp normalmaps plugin, and the provided shell script in utils
02:54 sofar that doesn't produce anything that makes bumpmapping believable
02:55 RealBadAngel indeed
02:55 sofar frankly I think I'm going to have to paint them by hand
02:55 RealBadAngel you should try Insane Bump or AwesomeBump
02:55 RealBadAngel i prefer AwesomeBump
02:55 RealBadAngel insane is only for win
02:56 RealBadAngel https://github.com/kmkolasinski/AwesomeBump
02:56 sofar found it
02:57 RealBadAngel we are using normal maps in RGB + heightmap in alpha channel
02:57 RealBadAngel so you shall choose combined output
02:57 sofar that's another detail that I had to derive the hard way :(
02:58 RealBadAngel you could just ask me
02:58 sofar yowch, slow clone
03:01 sofar well once it clones I can give that a whirl :)
03:02 RealBadAngel i will wait till you get it working, there are a few tricks you have to know
03:03 sofar just built
03:03 sofar wow this isn't a quick one-off tool
03:04 RealBadAngel you can import there an image by loading or pasting from clipboard, but any case you will see AB pattern in the final image
03:05 RealBadAngel to get rid of it, select diffuse tab, enable preview, click "convert to n-h"
03:06 sofar ic
03:06 RealBadAngel to save file in format we need, select output tab, then next to "save" choose our format
03:07 RealBadAngel when you click save, it will ask for output folder and save there some files
03:07 RealBadAngel the one ending with _n.png is ours
03:08 sofar height as normal alpha?
03:08 RealBadAngel yeah
03:09 sofar so then it saves a _n and a _d png
03:09 RealBadAngel for height black is 0, white is most top (its not inverted heightmap)
03:10 RealBadAngel 2 or 3 files, yeah.
03:10 RealBadAngel we do need only the _n one
03:11 RealBadAngel when trying the map in the app, select shading: bumpmapping and Shader: relief mapping
03:12 RealBadAngel you will get the effect close to what you will see ingame
03:12 RealBadAngel apart from real lights ofc
03:13 VanessaE RealBadAngel: so, when will we have real lighting?
03:13 RealBadAngel also, what is the resolution of source tp?
03:13 RealBadAngel VanessaE, dunno :)
03:13 sofar RealBadAngel: 16x16
03:13 RealBadAngel when its done (tm) ;)
03:14 RealBadAngel sofar, so you have to upscale your tp in the first place
03:14 RealBadAngel at least to 128x, but i advice 256x
03:14 VanessaE RealBadAngel: so, never. :P
03:14 RealBadAngel hey, DN3D was finally out ;)
03:15 VanessaE heh.
03:16 RealBadAngel 16px cant hold enough data for bumpmaping, its per pixel technique, you have to match actual video resolution, not the source tp one
03:16 RealBadAngel thats why your normal maps have to be higher resolution
03:17 RealBadAngel note you will need upscaled textures only for normal map making process
03:18 RealBadAngel when you will enlarging them i suggest not using any filters to do so, just plain upscale
03:19 RealBadAngel sofar, i think the rest is just fiddling with settings and sliders till you get the map you will like :)
03:20 RealBadAngel ah, one more thing, making proper heightmap for some nodes is hard with algorithms, sometimes its better to draw them by hand
03:20 RealBadAngel and import it back to AB via pasting
03:22 RealBadAngel i do that in GIMP, taking source at original 16px, convert to grayscale, raise contrast, remove or add white pixels to correct levels, upscale to desired final resolution, copy paste to AB
03:23 RealBadAngel in AB you can select then in "normal" section the height map to be an input for normal map
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08:01 VanessaE someone REALLY needs to fix minetest often hanging (requiring a SIGKILL) on exit-from-server.
08:02 cheapie VanessaE: Mine hangs sometimes, but always responds to SIGTERM for me.
08:03 VanessaE I usually resort to KILL when it hangs, didn't think to try TERM.
08:04 VanessaE either way, it needs fixed.
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18:38 cmdskp I'm new with Github - when I fork minetest/minetest it gives me older dated files from gregorycu/minetest?  I'm confused.
18:42 cmdskp For example, the 'util' folder is dated 3 days ago, but on my new fork today, it shows as updated: 2 months ago.  Am I only getting the last release version?  Not the latest committed?
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19:10 Robert_Zenz cmdskp, you sure your working copy is on the right branch?
19:10 cmdskp I clicked the 'Fork' button at the top-right of this page: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/
19:11 cmdskp It then takes me to: cmdskp/minetest (and under that says: forked from: gregorycu/minetest)
19:13 asl97 cmdskp: it probably just mean you fork gregorycu repo in the past, just delete it in the settings if you don't need it and use the fork button on minetest
19:13 cmdskp I will retry that
19:14 asl97 i would suggest cloning it as a backup before deleting just in case
19:14 cmdskp I had tried to remove it from my profile, but now I've found where you suggested, under settings.  This looks hopeful!
19:15 cmdskp I never keep my stuff only in the cloud =)  Just too easy to lose stuff or get confused haha
19:17 cmdskp Yes, thank you!  That sorted it out. :)
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20:33 sofar hmm, does anyone know if it's possible to modify mapgen params and change the y_max limit?
20:34 kaadmy which limit?
20:34 sofar y_max
20:34 kaadmy y_max limit for what, the 31000 node?
20:35 kaadmy afaik that's changeable only by recompiling mt
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20:35 sofar I need it to generate only subsurface terrain below 0
20:37 sofar alternatively I'll take a method to manually mark blocks as generated
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20:43 red-001 sofar
20:43 red-001 so you olny want to generate underground?
20:43 sofar I've got an imported/converted map, but it ends at -64
20:43 sofar so I want to generate below that
20:43 sofar mgv7 is generating stuff above the imported landscape
20:44 sofar so that needs to stop, but it needs to continue generating below
20:44 red-001 at what level is the imported part?
20:44 sofar above -64
20:45 red-001 Maybe you should generate the world and then paste it back in with worldedit
20:45 red-001 then It will not get generated over
20:45 sofar it doesn't get generated over
20:46 sofar the generator generates *above* it
20:46 red-001 ok
20:46 sofar above, bad, below, good
20:46 sofar nothing is destroyed by mgv7
20:47 red-001 maybe you could move the landscape to +10 or 0 using worldedit?
20:47 sofar then it would generate stuff at +100 above the imported terrain
20:48 sofar ... not a solution
20:48 sofar I've converted a ~ 3000x3000 minecraft map
20:48 red-001 well you could use mg6
20:48 red-001 or singlenode
20:48 sofar or I can use a lua mapgen
20:48 sofar that would probably work
20:49 red-001 yeah it would
20:49 red-001 It should be too hard to modify a lua mapgen to olny generate below -64
20:50 sofar I'll look into that
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21:22 red-001 game#667
21:24 red-001 can someone take a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/667 ?
21:25 paramat will merge game 757, 761 in a moment
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21:27 paramat i'm kinda busy so i think the other mtgame devs should review that :)
21:27 rubenwardy Another victim of the outdated Ubuntu store: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=3&t=13807&p=202885#p202885
21:27 red-001 0.4.13
21:27 red-001 wow
21:28 red-001 can a client that old even connect to new servers?
21:28 rubenwardy huh?
21:28 rubenwardy I think what it's 0.4.9
21:28 rubenwardy and no, I don't think it can
21:29 rubenwardy #2442
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21:31 Fritigern The version currently in the Wily repos is 4.12, so I'd bet that person has a lot more updating to do than just MT
21:31 paramat nore ShadowNinja any approval for https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/744 'Add steel trapdoor'? code is checked just needs a +1
21:33 paramat crumbs this will be my 100th commit to game
21:36 RealBadAngel here are pr for both engine and the game: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/762 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3496
21:36 RealBadAngel testers and comments are welcome
21:36 paramat ok will look later
21:37 paramat now merging game 757 761
21:40 * sofar dances
21:44 paramat merged
21:44 red-001 I change game#602 so that the priv needed is called access
21:44 Fritigern And I shall pull and rebuild (frst time in months) :-)
21:47 sofar yay one less branch in sofar/minetest_game :)
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21:48 red-001 rubenwardy is 602 ok now?
21:49 paramat you would need to modify core mapgen code to generate only under y = -64, otherwise use a modified lua mapgen
21:50 sofar paramat: yes, I think I'll do just that.
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21:51 rubenwardy_ yes red-001
21:51 rubenwardy_ from my pov
21:53 sofar "access" seems fine, I was thinking "administrator" or "moderator" myself, but "access" isn't bad at all
21:53 rubenwardy_ admin or mod would be a bad pri
21:53 rubenwardy_ v
21:53 rubenwardy_ privs should say what the privs is
21:53 rubenwardy_ not what your level is
21:54 rubenwardy_ for example, I have the privilege "alcohol" not the privilege "adult"
21:54 sofar right
21:54 rubenwardy_ access isn't that good of a name either
21:55 rubenwardy_ But a good name is hard
21:55 red-001 it's nice and short
21:55 rubenwardy_ yeah
21:56 rubenwardy_ although if you're not thinking about locked chests, then it isn't immediately obvious what it's for
21:56 rubenwardy but meh
22:06 red-001 rubenwardy
22:06 red-001 why would the option to chose update info from a diffirent url be a security risk?
22:06 red-001 #2442
22:07 rubenwardy I don't think it would be.
22:07 rubenwardy oh
22:07 rubenwardy heh
22:07 rubenwardy removed
22:14 red-001 I think the client should just something like http://www.minetest.net/currentversion.json
22:15 rubenwardy https://api.github.com/repos​/minetest/minetest/releases
22:15 rubenwardy that's a little hard to interpret, I gues
22:16 red-001 github is a third party not ideal
22:16 paramat hey hmmmm are you still happy with adding a mapgen alias for air, so subgames can use core mapgens to create space or alien realms with vacuum or alien atmosphere nodes?
22:17 red-001 If you host your own file you can also send messages to the user
22:17 red-001 for example if a large update is made
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22:18 red-001 and give an update link/add an ingame updater
22:20 red-001 I think I fixed all style issue with #667
22:27 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/763 'Default: Add mapgen alias for air'
22:30 paramat seems essential considering c55's roadmap posts. thinking of making the corresponding modifications to mgv5 and singlenode first to see what issues arise
22:49 paramat anyway since we agreed on this a while back i'll probably go ahead
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