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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-12-27

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Time Nick Message
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02:50 sapier1 I wonder if anyone ever tried to use a [crack texture ... because if someone did she/he would've failed completely as documentation is plain wrong
02:51 sapier1 Well to be honest code could be wrong too so not sure what has been broken first
02:52 sapier1 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blame/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L257 sounds like n=number of different crack images p=selected crack image to me
02:52 kaadmy i dunno how it works
02:53 sapier1 I found a way to get it work but imho it's just working around bugs in c++ code
02:54 kaadmy and i still have no idea how digging times work
02:54 sapier1 see mob_miner from mobf
02:54 kaadmy if i use the math in  the lua_api.txt then the diamond pick digs like 80 nodes
02:55 sapier1 just ignore doc and read code
02:55 kaadmy probably a good idea
02:55 sapier1 even after finding out how it works from code I can't tell if doc is correct or not as I'm simply unable to understand it's meaning
02:56 sapier1 https://github.com/sapier/animals_modpack/​blob/mobf_2_5_dev/mob_miner/utils.lua#L20 this is basically doing same in lua as time calculation in c++
02:57 kaadmy ah
03:05 sapier1 I'm not sure if crack texture modifier is correct at least I think doc is wrong ... looks to me as if someone tried to explain multiple things at once missing most important parts ... same as digtime calc ;-)
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03:06 kaadmy yep
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06:23 sofar ehmagherd
06:24 sofar found out why noteblocks are obnoxiously loud
06:49 sofar https://github.com/Jeija/min​etest-mod-mesecons/pull/244
06:49 sofar spotted a few more stereo sounds, so I'll send out some more PRs
06:54 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/757
06:59 everamzah u prolly already know this but file is a great way to tell what's mono/stereo, or 22050 or 44100, etc. even bitrate.
06:59 everamzah file(1)
07:01 sofar $ history | grep file
07:01 sofar 631  find . -name '*.ogg' | xargs file | grep stereo
07:01 everamzah nice
07:01 sofar I practically live in a shell ;^)
07:02 everamzah :D
07:05 sofar I didn't find any other major offenders besides those
07:07 sofar a few in carbone and voxelgarden
07:08 sofar and I didn't realize that unified_inventory plays those day/night break sounds itself...
07:08 sofar that mod does way too much
07:08 sofar I'm beginning to dislike it
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09:10 RealBadAngel sofar, why have u failed with makin normalmaps?
09:12 * VanessaE imagines RealBadAngel holding a gripping hand out in the air, using The Force :P
09:13 RealBadAngel lol
09:18 RealBadAngel VanessaE, that script for generating normalmaps shall be updated imho. it doesnt generate heightmaps at all
09:20 RealBadAngel on the other hand AB provides way better normalmaps than it...
09:20 * VanessaE shrugs
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11:18 lemon Is it possible to change time of a particular player without altering the global time?
11:19 lemon To make timezones mod, for instance?
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12:38 est31 I'd like to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3490 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3491 later
12:38 est31 both very simple PRs
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14:01 Fixer !tell paramat doors_door_close.ogg and doors_door_open.ogg should be in mono to be played in 3D (that is default/doors)
14:01 ShadowBot Fixer: O.K.
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17:25 asl97 @paramat can't you use vm and run calc_lighting to benchmark it?
17:26 paramat celeron55 although it is still in development i was considering adding mgwatershed in hidden form, would this help your work on farmap?
17:27 paramat asl aha i could use the non-mapgen object LVM
17:28 paramat thanks, that enables testing it for a large volume
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17:51 paramat nore sfan5 any approval for https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/744 'Add steel trapdoor'?
17:51 asl97 paramat: i just realize that calc_lighting is to be used only by a vm object from get_mapgen_object... sooo,  what did you figure out?
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17:54 paramat true, but the non-mapgen object LVM uses 'update map' instead, which calls 'spreadLight'
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18:19 paramat i'll merge game 757 later as is trivial https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/757
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18:22 paramat also i might allow mushrooms to grow on tree logs
18:25 cmdskp seems sensible
18:25 kaadmy yeah
18:31 RealBadAngel paramat, when talkin bout mushrooms, they do grow at night, but it doesnt mean you are going to the woods when theres dark ;) imho you should change the light condition to affect only growing, they shouldnt be destroyed by light
18:33 paramat well they are removed only with light 15, which is direct sunlight / open to sky, seems reasonable and realistic
18:35 RealBadAngel have u actually saw mushroms disappearing in sunlight? ;)
18:35 sapier guess it's more like fixing bugs in spawn algorithm ;-)
18:36 sapier you wont recognize them spawning wrong if they're removed immediatly
18:37 paramat yes mapgen does place some under open sky
18:38 RealBadAngel i mean modfying spawning and move there check for light, so they could pop up only night time
18:38 RealBadAngel and mushrooms irl can be found at places with direct sunlight
18:39 RealBadAngel https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/​images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRd2G83TO4hm212Y7​gxXPFZY0XWyASR2nQ7BEEAbjV80zy2nPpo
18:39 sapier spawning is quite a interesting task :-) yet you can do a lot of things wrong without noticing in small scenarios
18:39 RealBadAngel those are champignons
18:39 paramat sure, but apparently they prefer shade and don't like sustained exposure
18:40 RealBadAngel mushrooms grow quite fast, one night is enough to find new young ones
18:41 RealBadAngel after 3-4 days mushroom is old, getting worms and decaying
18:41 sapier well maybe we should discuss what's best for gameplay no what's most realistic ;-)
18:42 RealBadAngel spawn them at night and dont remove imho :)
18:42 RealBadAngel (or just when its dark enough)
18:43 sapier ppl just don't need the full spawning and environment features mobf provides
18:43 sapier I believe this is same in minetest
18:43 sapier not removing will cause worlds to get flood
18:44 RealBadAngel nah, i dont mean spawning as with mobs, modify an abm
18:44 sapier as it's alost happening with flowers atm ... imho it's quite close to the limit
18:44 sapier Imho abm's are still as bad as they've ever been
18:45 sapier I see a lot of abm timeouts in default game when testing mobf ...and mobf doesn't even use abms at all!
18:45 sapier so it's really default game causing it!
18:46 RealBadAngel paramat, btw, thats good idea to let mushrooms grow on tree logs, they do live in symbiosis with trees
18:46 sapier RealBadAngel:  not all of them but I think it's close enough
18:46 RealBadAngel that would allow mushroom farms for example, place some logs, cover them and wait for mushrooms to grow
18:47 RealBadAngel sapier, i think that all of them
18:47 sapier your champignons are the one example for mushrooms not growing on trees those grow on horse ... hmm looking for the english word
18:47 RealBadAngel shit
18:48 RealBadAngel but you got the point
18:48 sapier horse dung
18:48 paramat yes i read up on mushroom farming, logs are often used
18:49 RealBadAngel some kinds are bound to certain trees
18:49 sapier Well at least the mushrooms sold in germany usually are grown on horse dung and hay
18:49 sapier At least those wich are actually farmed and not collected in the woods
18:50 paramat mushrooms have to be placed at mapgen time, not at night, otherwise there would be none the first day and only a very slow increase
18:50 sapier porcini require trees ... but there are more ... and porcini aren't farmed at all
18:50 RealBadAngel 99% of the kinds require trees
18:51 RealBadAngel and theres shitload of eatable ones
18:51 RealBadAngel im picking at least 30-40 kinds here
18:53 sapier well we don't have to discuss about things where we all are right, guess it's different from location to location how and in which extent mushrooms are actually "farmed"
18:53 RealBadAngel in germany you propably know only steinpilze, maroonenpilze, champingnons (2 kinds) and Pfifferlingen
18:53 RealBadAngel most germans do not know other ones ;)
18:53 sapier I've never seen those champignon like mushrooms I loved in newzeeland here in germany ... and considering the amount sold in supermarket I'm quite sure those have been farmed
18:54 RealBadAngel sapier, those you can find on your own are mush more tasty than those farmed
18:54 RealBadAngel i dont buy champignons at all
18:54 sapier Well  I cant tell the english names of our local special mushrooms :-) in fact those become more and more hard to find
18:55 sapier most interesting ones are those who look quite similar to poisonous ones :-) ... quite tasty
18:55 RealBadAngel you have to know what youre picking
18:55 sapier exactly that's the problem my grandfather did know way more mushrooms then I do
18:56 RealBadAngel https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia​/commons/thumb/a/a4/Macrolepiota-proce​ra.jpg/800px-Macrolepiota-procera.jpg
18:56 sapier yea that's the one I'm talking about :-) well I'd have to look at it's bottom side to be sure
18:57 RealBadAngel those for example are my favourite, fried as cutlets
18:57 sapier same for me
18:57 RealBadAngel you will propably be afraid then ;) data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABA​AD/2wCEAAkGBxITEhUTExMWFhUXGBoYGRgYGBgaGRogGhsYG​hgaGxgaHSggGiAlGxgYITEhJSkrLi4uGh8zODMtNygtLisBC​goKDg0OGhAQGy0lICUtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tL​S0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLf/AABEIALcBF​AMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAABBQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAECB​AUGB//EAD0QAAEDAwIEAwcDAwIGAgMAAAECESEAAzESQQQiU​WEFcYEGEzKRobHwQlLRYsHhFCMHM3KCovGywhUkkv/EAB
18:57 RealBadAngel gBAAMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwAE/8QAJBEAAgIDAQACA​gIDAAAAAAAAAAECERIhMQMTQVFhMnEiQrH/2gAMAwEAAhED​EQA/APH7twCBnpStBwBIp1AZUXPTH1pskfbalsLY4svCiAO​nWh3rABDF3mpXUgEsD8+9IpLx0ej0BAJJaHoy1EEaUt1pIt​kDU5DU2gtJYkvnbeg+mAp1AlgTTaVluu3brV3UIY+dJ3wzh​9prWFFEcOpwcmrFqwQSDD0ZOHkxUOHKXAAk7k/Sg2AgbADj​ST0bahI4ZYyJ2q2bpBUTSKwZc+m9a6C0C4m3cLJKc7iki2S​+QMNUlk9T1an95qI5QGjLN880bNQ/uSp5amu8Myc5y9TWpi​QHNK7sXIG8OKW2ZIkm2g9jAemuw3Qb71FCk6sGYA3
18:57 RealBadAngel 862+D8Atqs+9v3SCXKLSA6uxWTCQTt2oNoKjvRh3U6mOp+g​pXbQPrLbVsWfZ0rDJUEnZKuUKgwleAXGFMC4msq/qtK0XLa​wUuGIYg+eKK3wLTI6NKhpS/d/pRBdYjZ3prV12Ol/L+9PcI​VgM3y86whNKzBEHFQvcZjVnypioJZwfSaIhDuwLj93X5VqQ​UAVCXyHEfxRCskZbtTrXkkAf3NQtLKmBAkP8AWsAKjlktQx​MaT6bf4pXjpLmQYEUjddiUzjLOKxhtQDHY/Q7VJN52BLP+C​lcSzAHvsZoPEIJU55S4DbCilsPQmsIhgw3pjczpBA86piC/​xb9Xo4WE7ZAOZFGgD8NxGQTgO9S4S4lVwajG4eGIyKDfIjs​3n/miotAh0nzgVqSMLiFEKIDltwc96ao3bTn4v/IT
18:58 RealBadAngel T0bMC0sN/WiWre5ECiKIzUgT0pbMQU7+dOlWcedS0FRASCo​1fteFkzcIAAwnNC0FKzOUqNJZqhbUl/KA9dAjhEDCR69h3p​jw6R+lPcs32ehmhlBnPqWVDSP8fOiISrIk9B23rcMD4RQ/e​kbTj/FbIbAx3dOkkuR6RvFMgcukwXjv5Vt2ion4PpVnRqAB​HKCCA0DG3Wg50DCznblkswBffU8eb4NTCggO4B8orpFcNrP​OH6zJbr/JmmR4bbA5rbsMyY+cv9Kyn+Q4Wc6rMDuSd3xULx​STIdWYkBq6G94AkFiVJOmQe4hxpED8NBPgCo5xJ+PSySAPN​3ftWzQrizH4e2oktzKMgb/4rY4PwJpuZOUpI85J37Ctfg/D​U2gwAmCpgSfWrw4foHHYP96SUykYV0zrXDpQTptgH
18:58 RealBadAngel sgOwzNS98WYjL7iR3Dwe1aKuHEMThywIAHTv+ZqB4XDjLGMt​1+QqeRRRKPvlM7Klmb60lLJdxB657AP23rS/wBMBsWHfEse+​KirhX3nIjb8FbIOJg8R4XbVLMeoz61k8V4fcT8CSsdoVjcdP​WuyXwxMk/YUJXDltxuaZSJygmcUhQInp+YqNy+rSC5JMPv3r​e8T8HHxoYKdyCWBb7GsG3dfHnHSrKmSlBoZKyGGl3yaSgBgS​BH+KmLZIJUX/O1MoYicdqLEBsFONbTAoJSzhSnHYzVpQkSAx​w2fWhXLKXKlFn/BiiFE0pggMJcHtSRYUf3c26tv4oKyokM0R​9g1EPDrSSNR7h5rBoH/AKfmPQQ9DuyH6R6UYuxBB23mh
18:58 RealBadAngel awww shit
18:58 sapier well there's an additional one I've not found for years now, quite different shape more like porcini but  if you cut it there's a white milk
18:58 RealBadAngel that was a link to the image rotfl
18:58 RealBadAngel http://pu.i.wp.pl/bloog/4672423​9/722689/DSC02016_3O_medium.jpg
18:58 RealBadAngel here you can see one from below
18:59 sapier yes combined to it's smell I'd be quite sure that's the eatable one :-)
19:00 RealBadAngel better than meat
19:00 RealBadAngel pity they cannot be frozen at all
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19:01 RealBadAngel anyway, we can make mushrooms growing a bit more interesting thx to such modifications
19:05 sofar it wouldn't be too hard to have mapgen decorate woods with fallen logs
19:05 sofar and then modify mushrooms to spawn only on wood that's lying flat (not upright) on top of dirt
19:05 sofar that would be ultra-realistic
19:11 cmdskp or only on logs with dirt one block underneath, which allows them to spawn on top of tree stumps(as happens in real-life), but not in mid-air logs or tree tops
19:11 sapier not exactly there are mushrooms growing on tree sides too ;-)
19:12 cmdskp you know, I've yet to see mushrooms in minetest =) So I need to go hunt them out in-game more than in real-life! ^_^
19:12 cmdskp but you are right, mushrooms do like upright tree sides
19:14 cmdskp in particular, bracket fungi
19:16 sofar FYI, if you don't kill mushrooms at light 15, your entire world will get run over by mushrooms slowly night-by-night
19:17 cmdskp March of the Mushrooms!
19:17 sofar the default decorator plants them in all mapgens
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19:17 sofar they can be a bit rare, but the're still somewhere
19:17 RealBadAngel let them grow only on soil in close of tree nodes
19:17 RealBadAngel so it wont march
19:18 sofar I don't think killing them in full light is that bad
19:18 sofar but adding log tweaks sounds like a good idea
19:19 sofar and I'm interested to see if we can use the default decorator to place logs, it would add some nice variety without adding new nodes
19:21 RealBadAngel some game was doing that already, logs, lotsa other plants etc
19:21 RealBadAngel eden?
19:21 sofar yes, moretrees does it
19:21 RealBadAngel something like that
19:21 sofar but that is after mapgen
19:22 RealBadAngel https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s​/9vpwv7u0gz69omc/ImmersiveFun3.jpg
19:22 sofar yup. but if we introduce a game concept based on fallen logs, the default game should also have those placed by the default mapgen
19:23 * sofar takes a stab at it
19:24 sapier hmmm I remembering doing things similar to mobs_redo in mobf some time ago too ... prior switching to generic interfaces which can be reused
19:25 sapier wonder if it's possible to get more then 95% compatibility with a simple definition converter
19:25 sofar a schematic should do fine for logs... can vary the length nicely
19:27 paramat the difficulty would be detecting level ground for the log to rest on, the decoration api is too simple for this, it would have to be a lua mod using 'on generated'
19:28 sofar really?
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19:29 paramat the decoration api would create logs with their centre-point at ground level, depending on slopes the log would be half buried, half in the air most of the time
19:29 sofar that doesn't seem like a problem
19:30 RealBadAngel indeed
19:30 sofar logs fall in any orientation ... I have quite a few myself that are half sticking out of the slope :)
19:30 sofar (I have a 10acre forest property)
19:31 sofar I'm just gonna try something
19:34 paramat i guess it would look ok sometimes, sometimes not, like on sides of steep cliffs. anyway do experiment :)
19:36 sofar I'll have you review my noise_params, I seem to suck at tweaking those
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19:53 sofar paramat: it's putting the logs only ever to the *side*... does the schematic need a dirt block at the base?
19:56 paramat you need the schematic flags 'place centre x' 'place centre z' for the log centre to be at ground level
19:56 sofar I have those already
19:57 paramat force-place flag?
19:57 sofar it's not placing them on flat dirt, only sticking them against the side of exposed dirt sides
19:57 sofar I'm just putting a layer of dirt underneath to see how that looks
19:57 paramat ah schems are placed at ground level, not above
19:57 sofar yes
19:57 paramat perhaps a 2-high schem with air as the lower layer
19:57 sofar yup
19:58 paramat then don't force-place
19:58 sofar well I'll do air, dirt, dirt, air (the outer blocks are lower prob)
19:58 paramat ah yes
19:59 sofar whoah, xyz ordering
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20:01 sofar ok, that doesn't look half-bad
20:01 sofar lets find some slopes
20:02 sofar ... not as pretty
20:02 cmdskp :D
20:03 cmdskp somehow I can visualise that
20:03 sofar tbh it's fine on 45 degree slopes, actually
20:04 sofar vertical cliffs are weird
20:04 sofar http://i.imgur.com/q6qjeim.png
20:05 cmdskp quite nice on the flat
20:05 sofar http://i.imgur.com/lVy8tCH.jpg
20:05 cmdskp give or take an intersection - that rarifying will help the chances of
20:06 sofar http://i.imgur.com/kN2ifWM.png
20:06 sofar yeah I'm planting too many just to make them easy to compare
20:07 cmdskp It's not so bad - quite realistic for fallen logs to project out over edges like that
20:07 Krock sofar, looks like there was a whirlwind a while ago
20:07 sofar Krock: you farted
20:08 Krock No, then wouldn't be any trees be standing
20:09 * paramat looks
20:17 sofar I.... have no clue how to reduce the amount of logs
20:19 paramat use a lower 'fill ratio' or for noise a lower 'scale'
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20:26 sofar ok, I'll just use fill_ratio which works great
20:26 sofar I'll make a PR out of this so people can try
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20:38 sofar hmm, fill_ratio works great except for acacia
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21:00 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/759
21:08 cmdskp now for the mushrooms on top! =)
21:08 kaadmy yum ;)
21:15 sofar cmdskp: yes, the nice thing is that it can be done *in* the same decoration
21:17 cmdskp =D great!
21:17 sofar we just place mushrooms on top of the log in the schematic with a low probability
21:20 * sofar watches snow fall outside
21:22 cmdskp what's 'its' 'probability' at?  I really think I need a higher one here outside.
21:22 sofar probability for snow?
21:23 sofar friends of mine at 1000ft elevation had 3 inches or so, but in the valley here it's almost none
21:23 cmdskp yes, how much is outside - a few flakes, 0.01 or a blizzard 0.1? =D
21:23 cmdskp shame
21:23 sofar big flakes on wet soil, it's not gonna stick much
21:24 cmdskp we had that here on Yule-eve
21:25 sofar http://i.imgur.com/d2rer1p.png - for those following the grass texture PR
21:28 cmdskp I see
21:29 kaadmy grass looks smoother
21:29 kaadmy not rough enough imo
21:34 sofar that's the issue, some people like rough looks, some like smoother looks
21:34 sofar tbh the problem isn't either
21:35 sofar it's just that the default minetest textures are a non coherent set of cobbled up textures with no consistency
21:35 sofar it needs "styling"
21:35 kaadmy i agree
21:35 sofar any "style" will improve it, just as long as it's the same style
21:36 sofar I've been overhauling textures myself
21:36 sofar and just putting in my own style seems to work really well
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23:43 Fixer sofar, ast one looks fuzzy
23:44 VanessaE it lacks "contast" I guess
23:44 VanessaE looks too much like a perfectly-mowed golf green or so
23:47 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3493 ... i remember this bugging me for ages ... now I finaly found out why I couldn't feed mobs with apples
23:47 sapier hmm wait ... argh ... still can#t do it
23:47 sapier well at least I can use bucket to get milk now :-)
23:52 sapier TenPlus1 did rewrite parts of mobf quite close ... converting mobs_redo mobs definitions to mobf on the fly takes less then 1000k lua codelines ... well about 80% of their features ... guess I need to read a little bit more about the combat mode which is in some parts superior to what mobf provides atm
23:53 sapier wait ... not 1000k .... 1k :-)
23:54 cmdskp yeah, I was wondering about that 'cause I looked through mobs_redo recently when I added a new feature =)
23:54 cmdskp It would've taken me much longer at 1000k lua codelines
23:55 sapier well most code was to translate the harvesting things to mobf .. mobf does already provide harvesting by adding a few parameters while you have to implement it in mobs_redo yourself
23:56 sapier evaluating if someone did program this took about 250 lines on its own
23:56 sapier almost everything else is plain resorting of mob definition
23:57 sapier a small amount of features is missing in mobf ... guess I'm gonna add those to mobf 2.6 .. yet those aren't really big things
23:58 sapier it's a pitty such a waste of time to write code doing same ... even the same way
23:59 sofar Fixer: VanessaE: that's the problem with relative perception - it's "less than the current one", but nobody can draw up a style

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