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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-12-15

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Time Nick Message
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03:47 paramat will merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3456 'Mgfractal: Add 3D and 4D fractals' in 20+ mins
04:15 paramat now merging
04:23 paramat merged
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05:08 sofar can someone explain to me why the following patch works for X++ but not for Z++:
05:08 sofar https://gist.github.com/sofar/c04e2932967cb9edb768
05:08 sofar connects fencelike drawtype to normal drawtype
05:09 sofar it never paints the bars to the Z++ direction normal node
05:09 sofar but works fine for the X++ direction
05:11 sofar so weird
05:12 sofar wheps, that totally works fine
05:13 sofar must have forgotten to build?
05:19 sofar ahhh what am I getting myself into
05:20 VanessaE you dived into the engine source.  you're screwed now ;)
05:21 sofar if I could compose a xrailuv array by head this patch would be done
05:21 sofar it's slightly more complex, don't want to have the bars extend into the normal node...
05:21 sofar sigh
05:21 VanessaE it might be a good idea to introduce a node property that allows a fence to connect to it when it otherwise isn't a "normal" node.
05:21 sofar I just don't know where to start with this game
05:21 VanessaE (e.g. something made of nodeboxes or a mesh that's still mostly cubical)
05:23 sofar which incedentally are also needed for e.g. itemframes and torches
05:23 sofar can_be_mounted_to
05:23 VanessaE mmhmm
05:24 sofar ugh this sea mod is terrible, hello kitty island adventure meets nyan cat colors in my unified_inventory
05:24 sofar can't find a damn node
05:25 VanessaE haha
05:26 sofar so I started out looking what the problem with underwater plants is
05:26 VanessaE could be worse:  imagine coloredwood mod with moreblocks installed at the same time.  together they generate something like 3500 nodes (!).
05:26 sofar not sure how I got derailed into looking at connecting fences to normal nodes
05:26 VanessaE (thankfully coloredwood isn't in the creative inv :) )
05:26 VanessaE wellm
05:26 VanessaE well,
05:27 VanessaE it's like a youtube or wikipedia clickfest
05:27 VanessaE one moment you're looking at the article on screwdrivers, and 30 mins later you've somehow ended up on an article about cuttlefish.
05:27 sofar my stash of modifications to default is growing as well :/
05:27 sofar lockable trapdoors
05:27 VanessaE submit them as PRs.  maybe they'll be useful to others.
05:27 sofar better looking grass
05:28 sofar keys to lockable objects
05:28 sofar (can really only put that in minetest_game, as a mod won't work)
05:28 sofar a recipe to copy books
05:29 sofar colored carpet
05:29 sofar tossing out spores for mushrooms
05:29 sofar (seriously?)
05:29 DFeniks you know what i always wanted? horizontal fence , so i can build something like axis for wheels
05:30 sofar of course I've patched in 3d torches with nice particles
05:30 DFeniks maybe it even exists? already
05:30 VanessaE spores for mushrooms make at least some sense, since they were also in some other mushroom mods.
05:30 VanessaE DFeniks: a nodebox the size of a fence, turned sideways, would accomplish that
05:30 sofar not a single mushroom grower uses spores
05:30 VanessaE easily done with amod.
05:31 DFeniks yeah
05:31 sofar they spread, you pick all but a few, they spread, you pick all but a few, they spread
05:31 sofar fences for the 3 other wood types
05:31 sofar (that's like 3 lines)
05:31 VanessaE one thing I'd like to see are *diagonal* fences (between any two X/Z-adjacent coords that is)
05:32 VanessaE (darkrose's fork has such)
05:32 sofar that's possible both in core and in a mod
05:32 DFeniks but im thinking on servers where i play , i would need to make mod and make them install it
05:32 sofar I'd rather see walls (Oh hey I made my own wall mod)
05:32 sofar NDT_WALLLIKE
05:33 VanessaE DFeniks: alternately, if a server has streets mod, then there are probably the standard utility poles that it comes with, which can be turned sideways also.
05:34 VanessaE yeah, diagonal fences can be done with a mod, but that means adding several nodes.
05:34 sofar needs to be a meshnode, yes
05:34 sofar very awkward
05:35 sofar I also made a library mod so I can store my books in a lua file
05:35 sofar e.g. /library add
05:35 VanessaE nice.
05:35 sofar adds book in hands
05:35 sofar you can /library give #number
05:35 sofar or /library remove #number
05:35 sofar list
05:35 DFeniks actually , did i ever seen mesh node thats can be rotated? althought probably slopes
05:36 sofar mesh nodes can be rotated
05:36 sofar easily
05:36 VanessaE yeah, they work like any other facedir node
05:36 * DFeniks mostly builds with slabs stairs and fences
05:37 sofar k, maybe I'll try and push some stuff from my queue to minetest_game
05:49 sofar VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/742
05:49 sofar there be first one of tonight
05:50 VanessaE nice idea
05:51 sofar plus, and this took me a while, that shows how you can craft multiple items at the same time
05:52 VanessaE I see it.
05:52 VanessaE (I think)
05:52 sofar frankly others have done that before, but I could never find an example in minetest_game
05:52 sofar this copy method works really well to copy one book a lot of times
05:53 sofar you can put 99 empty books and 1 written one in the crafting table and just click, click, click
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06:31 RealBadAngel sofar, but that patch wont be enough, NDT_NORMAL wont connect to fences, you need to add X- and Z- too
06:32 sofar RealBadAngel: yes, but also we don't want to make bars that poke a hole into the normal node
06:32 RealBadAngel you need to add half of the bar
06:32 sofar so it needs 4 new if (side is normal) { draw bar } sections
06:32 sofar exactly
06:32 sofar other than that it should be a nice visual fix for fences
06:36 VanessaE sofar: see also game #665
06:37 VanessaE (my comment at the end)
06:38 sofar note I replied on that one myself too
06:38 VanessaE I saw.
06:39 sofar I don't like his craft recipes
06:39 sofar mine just adds acacia sticks and whatnot :^)
06:39 sofar (who cares what sticks they were
06:39 sofar plus I like the clutter it creates)
06:39 * VanessaE looks
06:39 sofar I don't have it in git yet
06:40 VanessaE hm
06:40 VanessaE actually,
06:40 VanessaE that's not a bad recipe idea
06:40 sofar I made my API a bit cleaner, I think
06:40 sofar register_fence(name, {def})
06:40 sofar plus I add the sticks needed (and textures for those)
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07:45 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/744 may be the least contentious addition for now...
07:48 sofar VanessaE: one particularly core issue I'd like to see solved is underwater plantlike nodes. now that I wish I had an idea on how to fix (only have seen every underwater mod struggle with hacks to solve drawing issues)
07:49 everamzah mm, water torches
07:49 VanessaE *nod* something like that in-engine could be useful but it would be tricky
07:49 VanessaE (particularly where water surface shaders are concerned)
07:50 sofar I'm wondering if builtin can handle the on_place in water
07:50 sofar but likely it should not
07:50 sofar also, underwater plants gonna dry out if the water disappears?
07:50 sofar not easy to solve
07:52 VanessaE that's easy.  turn it into dry shrub :)
07:52 sofar yes but it'll be in a bubble of fluid
07:54 VanessaE not if you replace it with an ordinary dry shrub node
07:55 sofar true, if the node being "under water" is being handled in content_mapblock.cpp properly
07:55 sofar then an ABM could do just that
07:56 VanessaE well that's something you'd want the engine to switch out the instant the water "runs out" e.g. during the water spread code
08:01 sofar yeah, if there's a flag somewhere that tells the engine to draw this like a normal underwater node, but it's not actually "in a fluid" thent that solves that.
08:05 sofar i think I've ran out of easily mergable minetest_game patches
08:05 sofar the rest gets more complicated, like keys
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08:38 sofar http://i.imgur.com/7DYxc4a.png
08:38 sofar almost done
08:38 sofar just need to fix the UV's
08:38 sofar but, it's late
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13:51 est31 ~tell dfelinto there is an 3d_mode setting for the client, perhaps you'll want that.
13:51 ShadowBot est31: O.K.
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15:53 est31 there seems really no other way to fix the keybindings problem on russian keyboards than to patch irrlicht
15:53 est31 this would mean that we ship our own copy of the engine
15:53 est31 hehe
15:53 est31 or to propose it for 1.9, and then download irrlicht automatically at the build step
15:54 est31 (as the distros wont package a version of irrlicht that isnt officially "released")
15:55 nrzkt irrlicht 1.9 has some crash on some memset
15:55 nrzkt i'm talking with devs about this
15:55 est31 in forums?
15:55 est31 or irc
15:55 nrzkt but yes, it really fix the keyboard issues, i can confirm that my special minetest declinaison fix problems
15:56 nrzkt i'm talking on IRC, but i need to fix some problems to have exactly the piece of code working instead of the whole project
15:57 est31 1.9 fixes them you say?
15:57 est31 in what way
15:58 nrzkt i don't know in what way but it fixes all problems i have with my french keyboard
15:58 est31 there is this obvious mistake with the event keycode not sending an wchar but some utf8 encoded thingy
15:58 nrzkt numpad, + 7 not working + accents etc
15:58 nrzkt and i can connect to my server
15:58 nrzkt but client crash when loading water block texture
15:59 est31 and the other mistake is that the other keycode doesnt work for international keyboads
16:00 est31 they have to apply the keyboard mapping backwards or so
16:00 est31 right now they take the least significant byte I think of the wchar
16:00 est31 totally wrong ofc :)
16:00 est31 so nrzkt you say you can bind 7 for movement?
16:00 est31 e.g. set 7 to move forward
16:04 nrzkt 7 has no effect with current irrlicht/MT
16:04 nrzkt with irrlicht 1.9 7 works like it does
16:04 nrzkt and all numpad too
16:19 Calinou we should bundle Irrlicht perhaps
16:19 Calinou to fix iti ASAP
16:19 Calinou -i
16:19 Calinou after the bugs are fixed
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16:33 Darcidride (someoen told me one time, (i did'nt remember who) he compilates minetest with irrlicht 1.9, it works well for him and he doesn't have anymore the binding problem)
16:33 est31 ha I killed Calinou
16:35 est31 oh offtopic
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18:08 Fixer Calinou, or unbundle ._.
18:19 sofar VanessaE: did you see http://i.imgur.com/7DYxc4a.png ?
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18:20 Krock Bugged visual _<
18:20 Krock *:<
18:20 sofar Krock: as said, I need to fix the uvmaps, then it should be fine
18:21 Krock oh good to hear ^^
18:21 sofar I've never done uvmaps other than in blender, so I didn't have the time before bedtime :^)
18:21 gravgun Meanwhile, in a world with borked Z-ordering...
18:21 Krock > broked
18:21 Krock Lol I even wrote the comment wrong
18:21 gravgun Real english is "broken"
18:21 Krock yeah.
18:22 sofar Krock: should be trivial to fix, but I didn't want to do a half-ass job at bad uvmaps, so I might take some time to fix that
18:22 gravgun http://www.urbandictionary.​com/define.php?term=borked
18:22 Fixer i wonder if "buggen" is possible
18:22 sofar plus I'm going to be travelling for a week or so
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18:22 Fixer sofar, but will they accept that PR?
18:22 gravgun We don't know so far
18:22 gravgun *ba dum tsss*
18:23 sofar the alternative is that everyone has to make nodeboxes in mods
18:23 * gravgun shows himself the door
18:23 sofar which is slow, and proliferates bad implementations
18:23 sofar we have NDT_FENCELIKE
18:23 Fixer last what i've seen is dev defence against that feature
18:23 sofar if it's broken now, we should fix it
18:23 Krock gravgun, I wonder where all those slangs come from o.o
18:23 sofar or just remove it
18:24 gravgun Krock: the interwebs are very, very vast. Much like slang emerges in towns, so does it on the net.
18:25 BlockMen sofar, better provide a common way to define fences
18:26 BlockMen else we need a second type for stonewalls
18:26 BlockMen and a third for xyz
18:26 sofar BlockMen: agreed, very much so
18:26 sofar BlockMen: of course that will have everyone up in arms even more so
18:27 sofar stonewalls are nice, I made some myself. all wood materials -> fence, all stone materials -> stone
18:27 sofar s/wall
18:27 sofar makes for nice villages in theme of local resources
18:29 BlockMen sofar, i did that with a new nodebox type, but dont have the code anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouTtZ1UFDCA :\
18:29 BlockMen so if you want to reimplement, feel invited ;)
18:29 VanessaE sofar: I did now. :)  that's very much like what I was thinking of.
18:30 VanessaE (the screenshot)
18:30 sofar BlockMen: lulz, fence gate
18:31 BlockMen sofar : huh?
18:32 sofar BlockMen: yeah, absolutely, a better NDT_FENCELIKE would be a major improvement
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18:33 VanessaE sofar: acacia, jungle, pine, default wood, .... what material is that fence on the far right?
18:33 BlockMen no, not NDT_FENCELIKE. we already have a drawtype for costum shapes. just add a new type (beside leveled and fixed)
18:34 sofar VanessaE: modified nether mod - added nether fence/brick/stairs
18:34 VanessaE ah.
18:34 sofar BlockMen: would solve compatibility going back/forward, sure
18:35 sofar how about NDT_CONNECTING - something that could be used for e.g. mese circuits, xpanes, etc?
18:35 sofar VanessaE: https://github.com/PilzAdam/nether/pulls
18:35 BlockMen sounds fine for me^
18:36 BlockMen * not the link, your suggestion
18:36 sofar sure
18:36 sofar is pilzadam on a sabbatical or something, btw?
18:36 VanessaE he's here randomly
18:39 sofar 28 days open pull request on his github :/
18:40 sofar one PR open for 6+ months now
18:40 sofar !seen pilzadam
18:40 ShadowBot sofar: I saw pilzadam in #minetest-dev 5 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 14 minutes, and 4 seconds ago saying "my commit count doesn't complain either ;-)"
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19:02 est31 sofar, technic cables would profit from such a mod/change too
19:02 est31 just wondering why it shouldn't be nodeboxes
19:03 sofar could be just planes as well
19:03 sofar client engine can make them far easier without node proliferation
19:03 sofar mods have to rotate them and make all sorts of variants
19:03 est31 you mean these ugly things that can be observed only if looked at from the right angle?
19:04 est31 like plants or torches
19:06 sofar no
19:06 sofar I mean having to define all wall variants as nodes
19:06 sofar whereas the core engine can do it with 1 node
19:06 est31 yeah
19:07 est31 technic cables are about 40 nodes i think
19:08 sofar exactly that
19:08 sofar would all go away
19:08 est31 yeah
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21:08 RealBadAngel is plural from dependecy "dependiences" or "dependencys" >
21:08 RealBadAngel ?
21:09 VanessaE dependencies
21:09 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3454
21:10 sapier why do I always change titles on request of someone just to realize it's been ok before?
21:10 est31 its dependencies yes
21:10 RealBadAngel hehe
21:11 BlockMen sapier use blank titles :P
21:11 RealBadAngel its highlight of the most common way here, comment typos, whities not the code :P
21:12 RealBadAngel btw, sapier, howdy pal
21:12 RealBadAngel where have u been, what have u been doing all this time?
21:12 sapier needed a break
21:12 RealBadAngel i took one too
21:13 sapier and my other hobbies needed some attention too ... doing 3d-printing takes a lot of time
21:14 BlockMen hmmm...probier mal beide zu kombinieren
21:15 est31 3d printing minetest scene
21:15 est31 minetest 3d printer mod
21:16 est31 build it in minetest, it gets then printed by the printer
21:17 BlockMen sound like the question of what was first: chicken or egg
21:19 est31 egg came first, en had sex with chick, chick laid egg out came chicken
21:19 sofar I've been thinking of making a minetest mod that allows me to virtually manipulate openstack nodes
21:19 est31 bad joke
21:19 RealBadAngel im makin now 3d texture nodes
21:19 RealBadAngel kinda related ;)
21:19 sofar what is "3d texture" ?
21:20 RealBadAngel i tried before but i died with plants waving
21:20 sofar oh you explained to me earlier
21:20 BlockMen i guess he means extruding, no?
21:20 RealBadAngel now i do have each pixel to be 1/16th of the full node size
21:20 sofar no, 16x16x16 pixels in a node
21:21 RealBadAngel i mean 16 layers of texture
21:21 BlockMen ah, ok
21:21 RealBadAngel each layer describing 16x16 layer
21:21 RealBadAngel this way inside one node we do have 256 mininodes
21:22 RealBadAngel most simple form is "extruded" plantlike
21:22 RealBadAngel most advanced is l-system plant using it
21:25 RealBadAngel and such node is going to be freely used by mods
21:26 RealBadAngel i mean ability to change a 3d pixel runtime
21:27 RealBadAngel for sake of simplicty i decided to make such pixel be single coloured, not another node in node
21:28 RealBadAngel this way we can make everything we already have (but flat) and make it all 3d
21:38 RealBadAngel anyway, this is kinda long time, i need about 2-3 weeks more to fininish it
21:39 RealBadAngel i do have basics working, but fine tuning is damn hard
21:39 sapier hmm using latest android sdk requires to build for at least android-15 (4.0) atm our minimum requirement is android-10 (2.3)
21:40 RealBadAngel sapier, dont you think we shall include (and fork) irr once and for all?
21:40 sapier no for sure not
21:40 RealBadAngel im listening for cons
21:40 RealBadAngel (tux did it)
21:41 sapier I don't know if it's just for the last days but at least those days it doesn't look like we have tripled our developer count
21:41 sapier we just don't have manpower to create and more important maintain patches
21:41 nrzkt sapier, 3.5% of current minetest app users are using android 2, but for every install not only current installation 11% are android 2.3
21:41 RealBadAngel fightinin with incompatible (or broken) irr releases doesnt help
21:42 sapier I just ported the texture hack for irrlicht and althou this was a 20 line patch it took hours to find out how to match it to recent irrlicht changes
21:42 est31 nrzkt, can you upload screenshot of stats somewhere?
21:42 RealBadAngel 1.8.1 is common and broken
21:42 RealBadAngel at this point we can grab workin one and get it
21:42 RealBadAngel and forget bout irr related problems...
21:43 nrzkt est31: https://lut.im/UiP5O8s59L/Fa9WEFxWsA8Hqxlh.png & https://lut.im/fuzTsQbeN4/RS0jL6K7QoM7OPyO.png
21:43 sapier as I don't see a benefit from switching to recent sdk I suggest staying where we are for the moment
21:43 nrzkt irrlicht 1.8.3 should be used, not 1.8.1
21:43 RealBadAngel sapier, benefit is to stick to working one
21:43 RealBadAngel for starters
21:43 sapier irrlicht is used in the version provided by distribution
21:44 RealBadAngel and that way is fairly wrong
21:44 sapier RealBadAngel: sdk version doesn't have much influence on minetest
21:44 sapier you can even use recent ndk (which does have influence) and combine it with old sdk
21:44 RealBadAngel we shall pick WORKIN version
21:44 est31 yeah
21:44 sapier most of minetest is native code that's why I mention it
21:45 est31 I'm with sapier switching sdk needs a reason
21:45 RealBadAngel not the distromaintainers thought and assumed to be workin
21:45 est31 and right now there is none
21:45 sapier I never saw any compatibility issues with any version
21:45 RealBadAngel because we do now that some of them are NOT workin
21:45 RealBadAngel 1.8.1
21:45 sapier est31, primary reason would be availability AND gcc version
21:45 nrzkt est31, does those images fits to you ?
21:45 RealBadAngel next plz
21:45 sapier recent gcc usually has less bugs
21:45 sapier and does build more optimized code
21:46 est31 nrzkt, yeah, they are good. thanks!
21:47 sapier RealBadAngel: for distributions irrlicht version ain't our decision and on android it's just a matter of deciding between bad options as all ogles irrlicht versions are work in progress
21:47 nrzkt sapier, with clang 3.6 and 3.7 the gap between gcc and clang is a little bit less hig
21:47 est31 sapier, didn't know that the gcc version is fixed for target sdk, interesting
21:47 est31 RealBadAngel, the non working irrlicht version is 1.8.2 btw
21:47 RealBadAngel sapier, when you choose workin one as a platform, you can merge fixes you need
21:47 sapier nope est31 gcc version is part of ndk which I mentioned to be changeable without issues
21:48 est31 ah I see
21:48 RealBadAngel but im not the one to decide
21:48 RealBadAngel im just talkin about the way to avoid some problems, common ones
21:48 sapier nrzkt: did you manage to compile it using clang? I never tried but there's at least beginning of support in it
21:48 nrzkt 1.8.3 or 1.8.1 are good versions, 1.9 is not released and has some anoying crashes. 1.8.2 is buggy
21:48 RealBadAngel we have tried including irr and it works nicely
21:48 nrzkt sapier, i only build with clang on FreeBSD adding more warnings
21:49 nrzkt we have a FreeBSD builder on my jenkins using clang 3.6
21:49 nrzkt or 3.4
21:49 nrzkt if you look at your PR there is a FreeBSD/clang builder :)
21:49 sapier well I meant android, there's a clang option too
21:49 RealBadAngel and theres a reason why tux kart team did it
21:49 nrzkt oh
21:49 sapier but I don't know if our dependencies build with clang
21:49 nrzkt i built only with gcc for the play store
21:50 nrzkt with the last sdk/ndk i think because i'm on archlinux
21:50 nrzkt i have all sdk from 2.3 to 6.0 because i'm developping some android apps
21:51 sapier Still my suggestion is stay at current sdk version and update ndk as far as possible
21:51 est31 as long as it works, fine with me
21:51 nrzkt i do'nt see a reason to upgrade SDK/NDK for android. We don't use specific things in our code linked with android
21:52 nrzkt SDK version is only important for API in the android interface, that we don't care
21:53 sapier exactly but ndk does provide better compiler and as competition between gcc and clang recently resulted in improvements in both of them I'd hope it might help a little bit
21:54 nrzkt yes
21:54 est31 it did?
21:54 est31 didnt know
21:54 est31 market rules even working in open source world
21:54 est31 horray
21:54 nrzkt didn't know and the compiler optimisations will not fix our design which is not adapted for android :)
21:56 sapier I'm trying gcc-4.9 instead of 4.8 now
21:56 est31 sapier, what precisely is that texture hack about?
21:56 sapier there are gpu's out claiming to support GL_BGRA textures but don't really do it
21:57 sapier e.g. my sony xperia M device does
21:57 sapier irrlicht guys download texture to gpu but never ever check for ogl errors
21:57 RealBadAngel with irr fork we can force using it
21:57 sapier I added a check and in case of error try to redownload the texture in GL_RGBA format
21:57 nrzkt look at STK fork before wanting to forking irrlicht please
21:57 est31 RealBadAngel, there is no point in doing a whole FORK when you can just have a patch like now
21:58 sapier if this fails to ... well it'd not be worse then before ;-)
21:58 nrzkt and look at irrlicht 1.9 preview changelog which is so huge
21:58 RealBadAngel est31, lookin at instant crashes report is not any good too
21:59 RealBadAngel better to have the reason in own hands, and dismiss it
21:59 sapier imho a irrlicht fork would be a bad decision maintaining a 3d engine is at least as much work as minetest itself
21:59 est31 RealBadAngel, that's the burden we have to bear as sole users of irrlicht
21:59 est31 or well, perhaps there are other users too
21:59 nrzkt sapier, i agree with you
21:59 RealBadAngel est31, i suggest to see tux project
22:00 sapier RealBadAngel: "in own hands" sounds like different taste of "not invented here"-syndrom ;-)
22:00 est31 but on all distros I've checked, the only package using the irrlicht package is minetest
22:00 RealBadAngel they have learned
22:00 RealBadAngel we dont have to reinvent the wheel
22:00 RealBadAngel we can choose to follow the right path
22:00 sapier I'm gonna leave this discussion now as it's basically at same point it has been last year and the year before ;-)
22:01 nrzkt RealBadAngel, i tested STK embedded into MT this weekend and this was not working out of the box :)
22:01 VanessaE est31: "sole users of" is a bit of a scretch:  http://irrlicht.sourceforge.​net/project-platform/linux/
22:01 VanessaE (and MT isn't even listed there)
22:01 est31 Error 503 Service Unavailable
22:01 sapier unless there are at least two ppl having prooven to be capable of pushing a project in size of irrlicht and who say "yes I'm gonna fork irrlicht and fix all it's bugs" I won't change my opinion ;-)
22:01 VanessaE O_o
22:01 VanessaE reload.
22:02 RealBadAngel nrzkt, yeah, together with me, you forgot to mention ;)
22:02 est31 seems it got slashdotted VanessaE
22:02 VanessaE well, there are ten projects listed on that page ()including SuperTuxKart)
22:02 sapier and if those guys fork it I suggest calling it irrdark and we're just switching from irrlicht to that other project providing binary compatibility without it's bugs ;)
22:03 VanessaE some tank battle game, some sort of puzzle game, couple other things, and a number of library/bindings packages.
22:03 est31 but all not packaged in distros
22:03 RealBadAngel and as one last nail, look at BAW
22:03 VanessaE fair enough
22:04 sapier I guess irrlicht is somehow outdated nowadays but at least I wont spend any time replacing it ... but if someone wants to replace it I'll encourage everyone to do it ... but don't expect others to help ;-)
22:05 VanessaE sapier: zeno was working on that, but he left MT before finishing (or releasing) that code. :(
22:05 RealBadAngel sapier, my point was tux and BAW are using irr too
22:05 sapier I'd suggest talking to pilzadam he did at least a prototype replacement for irrlicht
22:05 nrzkt sapier, irrlicht developpers are working a little bit these days, the project restarted
22:05 sapier but I don't know how far his development ever  progress
22:05 nrzkt https://github.com/zaki/irrl​icht/blob/master/changes.txt
22:05 RealBadAngel we are not at the step we are starting to use an engine
22:06 RealBadAngel we do know what we do want from the engine
22:06 sapier long list of changes
22:06 nrzkt this build works nearly with MT
22:06 nrzkt i have crashes on some memcpy with specific textures, like the water texture, i'm trying to reproduce the MT code outside for the dev
22:06 RealBadAngel we could at least make combined lightin system on top of bundled irr
22:07 RealBadAngel if you all dont see most wanted reason
22:07 sapier the interesting thing is android ogles branch is based on irrlicht 1.9 and doesn't seem to be any less stable then the previous version
22:08 nrzkt sapier, you can try it, connect to my server (AppleTree) and tell me if your client crash due to irrlicht on water texture :)
22:08 nrzkt i only tested master branch
22:08 sapier nrzkt server name?
22:09 nrzkt AppleTree in the serverlsit
22:09 sapier server list on android ;-)
22:09 nrzkt oh yes :D
22:09 nrzkt pts.epixel-game.net 30000
22:10 sapier btw did anyone ever try to use the tree settings on android?
22:10 nrzkt i think we should remove this android special menu to unify menus
22:11 sapier nrzkt there's been a reason for the special menu, original menu wasn't to be changed even a single pixel and it just didn't fit on any screen of any android device I had
22:11 sapier if those constraints have changed feel free to write a new menu ;-)
22:12 sapier but be warned writing a full featured menu (spare time) takes about 3-6 months
22:15 sapier strange I don't get any network connectivity with my current android client
22:16 BlockMen can #3417 get merged?
22:17 est31 if sb +1es it
22:17 RealBadAngel water texture has separate shader
22:17 RealBadAngel hardcoded
22:17 RealBadAngel and not updated for a long time...
22:17 BlockMen est31 : well, i do then
22:17 nrzkt RealBadAngel, the bug wasn't on the shader, the crash was on the water block
22:17 nrzkt when i open the inventory :)
22:17 BlockMen will merge it then :P
22:17 est31 ok
22:18 est31 the thing PilzAdam commented about (including me) has been fixed
22:18 est31 unless he commented about sth different than me
22:18 est31 but I doubt that
22:18 est31 if its proper for you, it can be merged
22:19 est31 he had 13 days to point out the problem if he still has one with it :)
22:21 sapier maybe we can use latest sdk ... could've tested wrong thing before
22:22 nrzkt sapier, last release was done with the android sdk for android 5.0 if i remember
22:23 BlockMen merged
22:23 sapier I'm trying current version, I thought I'd need a system image for arm but that's completely wrong I do only need the sdk platform for android-10 ... which is still available
22:24 BlockMen what about #3393?
22:24 BlockMen hmmm doesnt seem to be interested
22:26 sapier 3393 seems to be right direction
22:27 sapier I would've been glad if I did use a substruct when the automatic face movement property was added
22:27 nrzkt BlockMen, you trigger a protocol break
22:27 sapier ok recent sdk does work
22:28 nrzkt the function is interesting BlockMen except the protocol break
22:28 sapier where's a protocol break?
22:28 BlockMen nrzkt : you mean https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3393/​files#diff-da1e28445fc732755d2b64683bd94ee4R858 ?
22:28 BlockMen yes, needs to be changed back to longstring
22:29 nrzkt yes :)
22:29 sapier ohhh there you're removing things
22:30 sapier thanks nrzkt I didn't see it
22:34 BlockMen fixed
22:36 nrzkt ty
22:37 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3454 anyone here to check android build? I didn't test oldarm mips and x86 by now as due to lack of build parallelity a single full build takes about an hour for me ... and I don't even have devices for thos archs
22:38 nrzkt maybe i could test tomorrow but apk is not working on my phone
22:38 BlockMen sapier: not doing android builds nor owning possible test device, sorry
22:38 nrzkt also i have a gcc 5.3 on archlinux i don't know if it will be used
22:38 est31 no, custom toolchain will be assembled for most things
22:38 BlockMen can someone give here a second approve? #3358
22:39 sapier ci doesn't provide android build support does it?
22:39 BlockMen last time im asking for such a simple thing
22:39 nrzkt i had one
22:39 nrzkt but i had a problem on it and no time to fix it then it's disable atm
22:39 est31 sapier, travis CI has problems because of limited RAM. it crashes while building :)
22:40 est31 sapier, so nrz provided a CI for us :)
22:40 nrzkt only the rolling release is currently running
22:40 nrzkt https://jenkins.unix-experience.fr/job/minete​st-android-OfficialRepository-RollingRelease/
22:40 nrzkt https://jenkins.unix-experience.fr/job​/minetest-Android-OfficialRepository/
22:40 nrzkt a problem on my java home i should fix :p
22:41 sapier hmm maybe I should fix android makefile to not require manual changing it for switching between platforms
22:42 sapier on the other hand if you mix up dependencies using different architectures I don't even wanna see the result
22:43 Robert_Zenz joined #minetest-dev
22:43 nrzkt sapier, if you have time to give a cmake build :p
22:45 sapier for sure not
22:45 nrzkt :p
22:45 nrzkt i added a symlink for JAVA_HOME, we will see if the rolling release android iwll work
22:45 sapier wrapping that huge load of duct tape in makefile format around of android build was more then enough pain
22:46 BlockMen #3393 : protocol break fixed, travis passed, ready to merge
22:49 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3391
22:49 est31 one thing we should change IMO: the list of files should be autogenerated
22:49 est31 perhaps it can be generated by CMAKE
22:50 est31 then make calls cmake to generate the list or so
22:50 sapier come on those android guys are joking ... if you tell them "use clang" but there ain't clang they just fallback to some compiler they find without even complaining
22:54 nrzkt sapier, => https://jenkins.unix-experience.fr​/job/minetest-android-OfficialRepo​sitory-RollingRelease/263/console
22:54 nrzkt rolling release repaired
22:54 nrzkt i re-enable the commit/PR builder
22:54 sapier great :-)
22:55 sapier can you add different build targets there?
22:55 nrzkt i don't have hundreds of CPU :p
22:55 nrzkt but if you need to build multiples target in one job i can
22:55 sapier come one we do  only have 4 build flavours atm ;-)
22:56 nrzkt which target do you want exactly ?
22:56 sapier mips and x86 ... I don't think we do need to test arm (non v7)
22:56 nrzkt i cannot build for mips
22:56 misprint joined #minetest-dev
22:57 nrzkt x86 is a non sense because we have linux/gcc builder and it's same :)
22:57 sapier but ndk does provide everything you need?
22:57 est31 sapier, nrzkt one of you want to review https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3393
22:57 sapier if you do have official ndk+sdk it'd be just a minor change to makefile ;-)
22:57 nrzkt if i correctly understand we can have the nametag of every mob with this ? :p
22:58 est31 yes
22:58 nrzkt it's the official SDK/NDK, non updated on the jenkins since some time
22:58 nrzkt but for the release build done on my pc it's up to date
22:58 sapier sadly I couldn't use it for sure because it most likely conflicts the health bars I use
22:58 sapier but that's not a reason not to merge it
23:00 est31 the advantage of auto-generated lists would be that the android build bug reason #1 gets fixed
23:00 est31 very often stuff works super fine on android
23:00 nrzkt <3 http://pastie.org/10635006 thanks irrlicht 1.9 :D
23:00 sapier what exactly do you mean with "auto-generated lists"=
23:00 sapier ?
23:01 sapier est31 isn't there the actual error missing?
23:02 est31 sapier, the error is that you forget to change the android list
23:02 est31 you add file, you remove file you move file
23:02 sapier ohh the file list :-)
23:03 sapier not sure if there's enough benefit to really justify writing a source tree parser ... especially as those bugs are quite easy to fix
23:04 nrzkt find src -name *.cpp
23:04 nrzkt :p
23:04 sapier nope
23:04 est31 cmake has a whitelist as well
23:04 est31 why not unify both :)
23:05 sapier feel free to implement all the scripts within the current makefile as cmake extensions est31 ;-)
23:06 sapier considering it still works after the original autor (me) didn't touch it for about a year I guess I have done something not tooo bad ;-) ... I'd have expected it to be completely broken
23:06 sofar sadly, cmake makes portability harder, not easier
23:06 sapier well android build is linux only
23:07 est31 yeah, nrzkt tried to do it on freebsd
23:07 est31 and failed :)
23:07 nrzkt :p
23:07 sapier but you're right cmake is almost a all or nothing build mechanizm either everything is cmake or it doesn't work
23:08 nrzkt i didn't retry recently, linux emulation on FreeBSD works great :p
23:08 sapier is there an android sdk for freebsd?
23:08 BlockMen since no one claimed anything anymore im mergin #3393 in 10 minutes
23:09 est31 BlockMen, find a better rule to justify
23:09 est31 like to say "I am a core dev and I approve" est is one too, so we have two core devs who +1 it
23:09 est31 :)
23:11 BlockMen well, now you made it clear that you +1 it, before its was not clear for me
23:11 sapier I wonder if I'll ever encounter a pull where ppl either not comment on any coding style issue or at least tell precise what they believe to be wrong
23:11 BlockMen also, 2 more core devs around here not approving
23:12 sapier BlockMen: could you rebase https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3457 right after your merge? ;-) it's gonna be broken by it
23:12 sapier but I'd expcet automatic rebase to be able to handle it ;-)
23:13 RealBadAngel about my shaders PR, who have tried water surface shaders?
23:13 BlockMen and im sick of this, really. then say: "not now", "i will look next time" or "i dont want to give it +1 for reason <xyz>
23:13 est31 yeah I knew https://apkpure.com/pizzeria-craft​-survival/com.touchapp.freddycraft
23:13 BlockMen RealBadAngel, i will test your PR tomorrow. from look at it it seems fine to me
23:13 est31 yet another rip off
23:13 est31 but doesnt even point it out lol
23:14 RealBadAngel BlockMen, this PR is just a gateway
23:14 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
23:14 RealBadAngel alone it does nothing, absolutely nothing
23:15 bleak_fire_ joined #minetest-dev
23:15 BlockMen its obvious how to test its functionality ;)
23:15 bleak_fire_ hi
23:15 RealBadAngel so please do that
23:15 RealBadAngel i do have 2 shaders rdy, water and lava
23:15 BlockMen [00:13] BlockMen: RealBadAngel, i will test your PR tomorrow.
23:15 sapier well I'd expect you to test the functionallity yourself BlockMen ;-) you wouldn't wanna merge it if it didn't do what you want ;-)
23:16 RealBadAngel BlockMen, oke doke, waitin then :)
23:16 sapier btw blockmen did you think about adding an "offset" parameter too?
23:16 bleak_fire_ i dont know if anyone's been following me on #minetest
23:16 bleak_fire_ but
23:16 sapier e.g. if bounding box is way different then model size
23:16 VanessaE wait, bleak_fire_
23:17 VanessaE until the current conversation is over.
23:17 bleak_fire_ ok
23:17 RealBadAngel btw, im damn proud of water flowing made with shaders, that piece took me a few weeks to polish
23:17 BlockMen sapier, rule is 2 approves. and tested it with different models, was attached correct for me
23:18 sapier I don't think it can be attached correct for all kinds of models but that's not topic of this pull so go ahead
23:18 RealBadAngel i can say thats one of the best lookin effects ive ever made
23:18 sofar RealBadAngel: shots?
23:19 RealBadAngel no shots, you have to see it flowing
23:19 sapier I've had that problem for my health bars in mobf which have different y offset dependent on mob model
23:19 RealBadAngel its damn animation
23:19 BlockMen RealBadAngel: btw shaders. could you get us better waving leaves shaders? they look awkward since paramats change
23:19 sofar RealBadAngel: youtube?
23:19 RealBadAngel BlockMen, im working on completely new waving models
23:20 BlockMen RealBadAngel : +1 :)
23:20 RealBadAngel please hold on with that
23:20 sofar RealBadAngel: animaged gifv? :)
23:20 RealBadAngel sofar, just grab the sources and try
23:20 RealBadAngel im not CNN :P
23:20 sofar I'm at work, lol
23:20 sapier btw as you guys keep adding fancy stuff why didn't anyone ever add a non hacky sign ?
23:21 sofar you mean signs_lib ?
23:21 RealBadAngel sapier i did proper signs already
23:21 sapier not an option
23:21 RealBadAngel but im stopped with 3166
23:21 sapier signs_lib causes way to much texture load
23:21 sofar I'm all for non-hacky signs
23:21 sofar sign lag can be crazy, indeed
23:21 RealBadAngel meta is holding textures generated on field change
23:21 BlockMen still 103 open Prs :\
23:21 sapier we've seen this kill android clients years ago ;-)
23:22 RealBadAngel but the engine is sending each meta change twice for some reason
23:22 sofar client side rendering of sign text?
23:22 sofar I know how to do that
23:22 RealBadAngel its easy
23:22 sofar just like custom tooltip text
23:22 RealBadAngel but i need to get rid of those double updates
23:22 sapier sofar: that's what I meant with "non hacky"
23:22 RealBadAngel no, thats not such easy
23:23 sapier and I could reuse that code for adding a laserpointer to 3d mode too ;-)
23:23 RealBadAngel you have to generate texture on demand, and then flush it
23:23 RealBadAngel runtime
23:23 BlockMen RealBadAngel: what is with nrzkt 's comments, like https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/3166#discussion_r39203778
23:23 sofar a proper fishing rod would be nice
23:23 RealBadAngel we doesnt do that yet at all
23:23 sapier if I had to decide about fishing rod or signs ... welll ... that's hard .... I guess I'd take the signs ;-P
23:24 nrzkt BlockMen, i added fixed on my forked minetest version but this PR still need the fixes if i remember
23:24 RealBadAngel BlockMen, this is outdated, epixel is using the code for like 2 months already?
23:24 nrzkt but this command is really great , for servers and for clients :)
23:24 nrzkt i use a client compatible with it since 2 months and it's better for me
23:24 BlockMen RealBadAngel : if you want it get merged you should update it? ;)
23:25 RealBadAngel no, im asking for help with it
23:25 RealBadAngel there should be a queue to get all the meta changes done in one tick
23:25 RealBadAngel compress it (get rid of doubles in the process) and send them as one packet
23:26 sapier sounds like something to be done out of main server loop
23:26 RealBadAngel not really
23:26 RealBadAngel theres already a loop to process all map edit events
23:27 RealBadAngel but it was built to send or not send blocks
23:27 RealBadAngel idk how to solve the situation
23:27 sapier exactly it's not meant to do other things ;-)
23:27 RealBadAngel but meta is completely other thing
23:27 sapier it might work but you should look quite exactly at it
23:28 RealBadAngel i think that this event should not be done there, completely
23:28 RealBadAngel it shall sent block not sent to clients far away as before
23:28 RealBadAngel or the older ones
23:29 RealBadAngel but for new ones as described before
23:30 sapier sorry don't know about the recent changes in there my knowledge about it might be updated or even missleading
23:30 RealBadAngel the speedup is great, even without grouping meta changes
23:30 RealBadAngel this is really a thing worth polishing
23:30 sapier -updated + outdated
23:30 est31 <RealBadAngel> this is really a thing worth polishing  <----- full agree
23:31 VanessaE agreed.
23:31 sapier bleak_fire_: you did want to tell something?  still there?
23:31 RealBadAngel sapier, are you aware that moving shit in a chest is causing mesh upade for a block and all its neighbours?
23:31 bleak_fire_ yes
23:31 RealBadAngel this PR eliminates that
23:31 sapier RealBadAngel: nope but that might explain the extreme delays
23:31 RealBadAngel yes
23:31 RealBadAngel with complex worlds
23:31 bleak_fire_ i'm having pipeworks crashes
23:32 BlockMen nrzkt : would you like to backport your fixed version from epixel to MT?
23:32 bleak_fire_ usually when people are looking at/placing technic items
23:32 bleak_fire_ "2015-12-15 23:09:46: ERROR[main]: Runtime error from mod 'pipeworks' in callback environment_Step(): /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/item.lua:338: attempt to index local 'dropper' (a nil value)"
23:32 VanessaE bleak_fire_: you mean you're having nil dropper reference crashes in buildin/item.lua
23:32 sapier bleak_fire_: core related crashes?
23:32 RealBadAngel for example, 8 solar arrays, one batbox, one swithichin box, and some cables below
23:32 RealBadAngel all those nodes are causing circa 80 map edit events per tick
23:32 nrzkt BlockMen, if i remember the fix :p
23:32 RealBadAngel half of them doubled for no reason
23:32 bleak_fire_ VanessaE suggested it might be another mod "dropping" something
23:33 VanessaE sapier: my guess on bleak_fire_'s error is that the above referenced code just doesn't know how to deal with a nil 'dropper' as passed to it maybe by pipeworks or something.
23:33 RealBadAngel now imagine whole damn VE's spawning area
23:33 bleak_fire_ i dont understand what that means, and i've never used technic other than the protected chests. other people like it though
23:33 RealBadAngel filled with machines
23:33 sapier why is nil passed to it?
23:33 VanessaE (and 'nil' player objects are undocumented in lua_api afaik)
23:33 VanessaE beats me, I didn't write that code :P
23:33 RealBadAngel each meta change causing mesh regen
23:33 RealBadAngel clients are sitting duck, constantly regenerating meshes
23:34 RealBadAngel because somebody called sending whole mapblock because of one meta change "A FIX"
23:34 VanessaE RealBadAngel: ok ok we GET it.
23:34 VanessaE merge your damn code already
23:34 sapier bleak_fire_: which version are you using?
23:34 nrzkt BlockMen, here are the commits related to this
23:34 bleak_fire_ the latest
23:35 VanessaE or someone else merge it for him, whatever
23:35 bleak_fire_ at github
23:35 bleak_fire_ usually every month or two i try and stay up to date
23:35 RealBadAngel VanessaE, not until somebody will help or code with damn queue
23:35 bleak_fire_ and report bugs as they happen
23:35 sapier line 338 in item.lua doesn't contain "dropper"?
23:35 nrzkt BlockMen, => http://pastie.org/private/do4yrvn3o3e3tthqiasjg
23:35 RealBadAngel atm its half-done
23:35 VanessaE well then will someone PLEASE HELP RealBadAngel finally?
23:35 nrzkt the 4 commits related to this
23:36 nrzkt first is the PR in its original case if i remember
23:36 BlockMen sapier, not upstream version. after that secondary_on_use was added
23:36 bleak_fire_ whoa is everyone pissed off at me?
23:36 nrzkt others are fixed
23:36 VanessaE good call, sapier
23:36 VanessaE bleak_fire_: your minetest is outdated.
23:36 sapier and for any usage of dropper in that file it's checked for nil before usage
23:36 bleak_fire_ 0.4.13?
23:36 BlockMen nrzkt : thx
23:36 VanessaE item.lua has that drop function at line 354, and there it IS protected.
23:37 sapier I see you're using the official build bleak_fire_?
23:37 VanessaE BlockMen: update to a dev build then
23:37 BlockMen nrzkt : why is it necessary to register?
23:37 VanessaE er, bleak_fire_
23:37 nrzkt because epixel is not ready for public usage
23:37 bleak_fire_ http://slackbuilds.org/repo​sitory/14.1/games/minetest/
23:37 bleak_fire_ http://slackbuilds.org/reposit​ory/14.1/games/minetest_game/
23:37 VanessaE bleak_fire_: get it from the minetest repo and build it.
23:37 nrzkt servers works very well, but there are missing features: p
23:37 RealBadAngel bleak_fire_, if you are about to use rolling repo, please do update it on each commit
23:38 nrzkt i will not sell your mail to others :)
23:38 RealBadAngel not once a month or two :P
23:38 VanessaE nrzkt: yeah, like not being able to use leveldb for the map :)
23:38 nrzkt i use postgresql
23:38 nrzkt it's better :p
23:38 BlockMen nrzkt : do it, and give me 50% :P
23:38 bleak_fire_ wait
23:38 nrzkt BlockMen, lol
23:39 bleak_fire_ so i should use the repo version of minetest, rather than the stable?
23:39 BlockMen nrzkt : i dont get it, since ppl that want to look can do it, but meh, your code your rules
23:39 bleak_fire_ do you mean github?
23:39 nrzkt redis is a pain for huge map, we tested on appletree and minetest-france redis is not good for > 5 players connected on non huge memory servers
23:39 sapier bleak_fire_: in your case yes
23:39 VanessaE bleak_fire_: yes, github.
23:39 bleak_fire_ ok
23:39 RealBadAngel bleak_fire_, just compile it whenever you something has changed
23:39 bleak_fire_ got it
23:39 RealBadAngel +see
23:39 nrzkt BlockMen, thanks :)
23:40 bleak_fire_ will it work properly for users with stable versions?
23:40 VanessaE RealBadAngel: well not on EVERY change...  my client and server are both rather out of date now
23:40 VanessaE bleak_fire_: should.
23:40 RealBadAngel usually
23:40 RealBadAngel but sometimes wont ;)
23:40 BlockMen but i have to get some sleep...
23:40 RealBadAngel its dev tree for christ sake ;)
23:40 BlockMen gd night
23:40 VanessaE (I don't actively track HEAD anymore.  more like, just whenever it looks like I need to update)
23:40 VanessaE night, BlockMen
23:41 nrzkt idem good night all
23:41 nrzkt i devel an interserver chatserver for those who are interested :p
23:41 nrzkt i haven't the lua implementation by python implementation and C++ implementation is correct :p
23:41 RealBadAngel im goin to take a nap too
23:41 RealBadAngel tommorow i will polish 3d textures
23:41 nrzkt it's very lightweight and portable :p
23:41 RealBadAngel still lotsa work :)
23:42 RealBadAngel but plants waving are GREAT
23:43 RealBadAngel and im gonna kill paramat if he even starts to think loudly its not enough voxelish ;)
23:44 VanessaE nonono it's PilzAdam who says that ;)
23:45 RealBadAngel both dont like shaders
23:45 RealBadAngel this is gonna be the first time i will restrict an effect to 16px only
23:45 VanessaE well so much for HDX :P
23:45 sapier gd night
23:46 VanessaE night
23:46 sapier left #minetest-dev
23:46 RealBadAngel not really, there will be a way to texture it with higher resolution ones
23:46 RealBadAngel but i mean there will be absolutely no reason to do so
23:47 RealBadAngel default lookin pixel will be lookin good enough
23:47 RealBadAngel its gonna be damn shaded cube on its own
23:48 RealBadAngel atm wielded has one flaw, its flat
23:49 RealBadAngel ive made it out of separate cubes
23:49 RealBadAngel and those cubes are waving
23:50 RealBadAngel so, there are 16 layers of waving micro nodes
23:51 RealBadAngel damn plant is made out of single waving cubes, shaded and bumped
23:52 VanessaE imho something like that is better as a proper surface mesh or something
23:53 RealBadAngel i thought about using meshes for that
23:53 RealBadAngel but better to generate them
23:53 VanessaE it would be WAY fewer polys and it would work with any resolution of textures
23:54 VanessaE keep plants flat, just split their faces up into 16x16 squares, and warp THOSE instead.
23:54 RealBadAngel please wait until you see it live
23:54 RealBadAngel i can just try to describe it, but words here are worth shit
23:54 RealBadAngel same as with water shaders
23:54 RealBadAngel you just have to see it
23:55 VanessaE a youtube link will be sufficient for me :)
23:55 RealBadAngel propably i will make a PR at the end of tommorow's session
23:56 RealBadAngel or at least i will make a branch to test what ive done so far
23:57 RealBadAngel hmmmm, btw, all those candies are possible only thx to tangent space commit

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