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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-12-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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10:54 Zeno` hi all
10:54 Zeno` It has been suggested to me that I should have explained why I removed myself as a dev
10:55 Zeno` Some people know, because I sent them a memo
10:55 Zeno` But for those that don't, it can be summed up as that I think: new features should only be added when current features are bug free. I realise that this would upset the users, though
10:55 Zeno` I have no problem with the project or other devs
10:56 Zeno` Mainly, though, I felt trapped chasing bugs
10:57 Zeno` I do think the project is worthwhile though, it's just that at this point in time I can't motivate myself to contribute, so it didn't seem fair that I had commit access
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17:10 est pushing in ~ 20 mins https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​5643b9b9ed3ec39f90e3a7c9bf09bc255e0bcef3
17:10 est can be reverted sooner or later
17:10 est but needing it right now
17:12 nrzkt est: ok
17:12 est can I merge nrzkt?
17:13 nrzkt yes
17:13 est thx
17:15 est wanting to merge this too, if travis works https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3422
17:15 est is that okay?
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18:44 est31 anybody here to look at 2 PRs?
18:45 est31 first
18:45 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3428
18:45 est31 then
18:45 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3417
18:45 est31 both are okay for me
18:46 est31 for the second, the concerns I had and PA had too are fixed now
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20:08 paramat +1 for 3422 and 3428, perhaps i'll merge these later
20:08 paramat oh 3428 needs squashing
20:15 paramat for 3417 i feel someone else should check the code
20:23 VanessaE #3428
20:23 VanessaE damn it ShadowNinja fix the bot
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20:59 paramat i'll also merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3418 later
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21:39 VanessaE paramat: did you say the other day you had some code around you wanted me to try regarding tree lighting bugs in mgv7?
21:46 paramat ugh =) i did but further testing showed the fix broke other stuff, sorry
21:46 VanessaE it's okay
21:46 VanessaE I'll just harass you about it off and on. ;)
21:47 paramat see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3421
21:47 VanessaE it's probably related to the y=+63 glitch you mentioned before
21:47 * VanessaE looks
21:48 paramat no that's independent
21:49 VanessaE "I created a branch with a version of mgv7 without overgeneration and tried the moretrees mod, the shadows were fixed. "  well at least you have a theory
21:49 paramat although having no overgen fixes the moretrees shadows, the issue should be fixed another way by working on lighting code
21:50 VanessaE yeah a lot of folks think the lighting code needs .... revamped.
21:50 VanessaE but that's non-trivial
21:50 paramat also of course moretrees is using l-system during mapgen, which it shouldn't, so it's partly a mod thing. you're lucky it works in mgv6
21:50 VanessaE well
21:50 VanessaE there's a caveat there:
21:51 paramat well delayed a little
21:51 VanessaE moretrees can be configured NOT to grow trees immediatley.
21:51 VanessaE immediately*
21:51 VanessaE (in that alternate mode, it places saplings that trigger spawn_tree() calls 10-20 seconds after mapgen of that block)
21:52 paramat i confirmed that the shadows are fixed if the upper mapchunk is generated first, so if you place saplings grown by ABM a few seconds later that might work
21:52 VanessaE originally I added that feature to reduce mapgen lag, but since my deferred code, it didn't matter.
21:52 paramat aha
21:52 VanessaE OH that reminds me:
21:52 VanessaE moretrees does NOT actually generate *during* mapgen
21:52 VanessaE not since the deferred code.
21:52 paramat yep i know
21:52 VanessaE (including spawn_tree() calls)..  they're done during globalstep
21:52 VanessaE oh ok
21:53 paramat but it's still fast enough that the mapchunk above is not generated first
21:53 VanessaE true
21:53 paramat try the sapling method in mgv7, that might fix the shadows
21:53 VanessaE I'll give it a shot
21:53 VanessaE meanwhile, it almost sounds like you need a more MC-like mapgen method, though maybe not necessarily a full 16 mapblock column
21:54 paramat ideally 'updateLighting' needs work to be more robust
21:54 paramat and a veersion of l-system without a lighting update
21:55 paramat comments in the code show it is a TODO, it was ment to be another decoration type
21:55 VanessaE that might help but there's a problem - it's not possible to know ahead of time when the very last tree in a chunk will be generated
22:00 paramat (version)
22:00 paramat yeah
22:02 VanessaE I suppose it might be feasible to pre-sort biome_lib's registered actions list to group spawn_tree() calls together.  But how would one know when to actually run one of those calls *with* lighting?
22:02 paramat since they are often over 16 nodes tall, it's not ideal to place them as decorations withing the mapgen vm because that has limits at mapchunk edges. best is to grow l-system trees from sapling using an ABM, then each tree gets a vm big enough for it's height
22:02 paramat (within)
22:03 paramat yeah agreed
22:03 VanessaE that's what they do in the alternate mode
22:03 VanessaE they're placed in globalstep, but then an ABM comes around some time later and grows them with spawn_tree()
22:04 VanessaE maybe I could read the mapgen type and enforce the alternate mode if it isn't mgv6 or something
22:04 paramat the version without a lighting update should be the one done as a decoration
22:05 paramat yes all other mapgens other than mgv6 will probably have shadow bugs, so they should use the sapling method
22:07 paramat the big lighting issue is the y = 63 one, i just can't see what it is about non-mgv6 mapgens that causes it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2759 it's bad
22:08 VanessaE yeah, saw the screenshots
22:08 VanessaE it's like those floating shadows caused by I guess "cave air" up high
22:08 VanessaE in that they suck :)
22:09 VanessaE the shadows in your screenshots are easily worse than the moretrees thing.
22:09 VanessaE btw the moretrees glitch even happens with smaller trees like palms, which barely stand one mapblock tall
22:12 paramat yes i think that's because l-system automatically emerges a large and tall volume that would touch the mapchunk top
22:12 VanessaE ah
22:12 paramat 3-4 blocks tall
22:12 VanessaE I recall RBA saying that by default it emerges 3 mapblocks tall
22:12 paramat ha
22:12 VanessaE but I don't remember what he said (if anything) about the horizontal range
22:13 VanessaE what would happen if you tweaked it to force say, 6 mapblocks in height?
22:13 VanessaE clearly it would exceed a chunk boundary every time then
22:14 paramat more chance of shadow i think
22:14 VanessaE hm no, that wouldn't help anyway (what if the bottom of the stack was just below the lower boundary)
22:15 paramat well i don't understand it, thought i did, for a day
22:15 VanessaE it's like quantum mechanics
22:15 VanessaE if you think you understand it, you haven't studied it enough :)
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22:16 paramat for the y = 63 thing, i even made mgv7 as mgv6-like as possible: removed overgeneration and used the exact lighting calculation mgv6 does, but still shadows. mysterious
22:16 paramat ahh it's good to see est here
22:16 VanessaE wb est.
22:16 est31 hi
22:17 est31 updated my pr about luajit detection
22:18 paramat every dev still active is so appreciated currently
22:18 paramat okay
22:18 est31 tbh I'm trusting susnux here, but I doubt they do it badly
22:19 paramat can it be tested?
22:19 paramat well we'll soon know i guess
22:20 est31 the buildbots say its okay
22:22 paramat hmmmm you are much missed
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22:27 harrison oberon event will happen in Boston and Zurich simultaneously on some Saturday in April
22:27 harrison exact date, venue yet to be chosen
22:27 harrison please join g+ group "Oberon/A2/Bluebottle" to submit talk proposals and plan conference/meetup
22:27 harrison i am organizing the Boston half of the event
22:27 harrison and have no experience at all I haven't even ever been to a coding meetup
22:27 harrison please help me
22:28 est31 harrison, its quite likely that the stuff you talk about is off-topic
22:28 VanessaE um.... this is minetest-related how?
22:28 VanessaE ninja'd/
22:30 est31 well, for the case there is sb living near boston wanting to promote minetest, now is your chance, contact harrison.
22:31 VanessaE haha
22:32 harrison i know it is not very relevant to the channel
22:32 harrison i am hoping for genneral advice
22:32 harrison on organizing a coding meetup / informal conference
22:33 harrison like, advise me bro
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23:34 rubenwardy Will sending particle spawners individually to players using playername cause lag problems? http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modd​ing_book/lua_api.html#particlespawn​er-definition-add_particlespawner
23:53 paramat thanks hmmmmm i will make the shadow bool optional
23:53 est31 yea I too think that optional is better here
23:54 est31 but idk about mapgen code design
23:57 paramat yep
23:57 paramat i mean yes optional is best

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