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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-11-11

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Time Nick Message
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02:27 ShadowNinja celeron55: I discussed it with several other devs, and you only review PRs very rarely.
02:27 ShadowNinja hmmmm: What exactly is the bug?
02:27 ShadowNinja infostream isn't working somehow?
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02:29 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Oh, BTW, I thought of a nice solution to your categories idea that doesn't require massive changes.
02:30 ShadowNinja You could use a scoped object.
02:31 ShadowNinja Eg: server::step() { LogScope("ServerStep"); /* Any stream writes will use the provided category name unless you enter another log scope */ }
02:32 ShadowNinja This should be very helpfull for the debugging case that you had in mind, since you just have to add that line to the top of each function/
02:33 ShadowNinja (but actually assigning it to a variable :-P)
02:36 ShadowNinja Oh, BTW, also note that kwolekr made some modifications to that PR, and est did some after for his console patch, so it's not necessarily my bug.
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04:49 paramat kwolekr == hmmmmm
04:51 * VanessaE wishes hmmmm would just go by kwoelkr here too :)
05:09 paramat hi hmmmm i'd like to merge mgflat soonish if you're able to check it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3313 i'm currently working on adding a choice of 4 formulas to mgfractal
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06:33 paramat i'll merge mgflat in 3 hrs, it was reviewed earlier and i trust myself with the recent changes
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07:30 celeron55 ShadowNinja: it turned out that it probably is not the fault of your code; however, it still is not working
07:30 celeron55 ShadowNinja: i have no idea why; i am even suspecting that libstdc++ 4.9...5.1 is broken
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08:04 hmmmm celeron, maybe it would help if you disassembled the function at that point
08:05 hmmmm ShadowNinja:  the scoped name thing sounds good but you're making the same god damn mistake that sapier, nerzhul, and est all make with temporary objects and their lifetimes
08:05 hmmmm please PLEASE don't do this for something important and subtle like MutexAutoLock
08:05 hmmmm I know you like to generate enormous commits where it's easy for reviewers to miss things like that
08:07 hmmmm paramat:  I guess it looks good at first glance
08:37 celeron55 hmmmm: it might help but i have to use my day for developing this actual feature if i am to ever get it done
08:37 hmmmm you shouldn't rush as much
08:38 celeron55 this is not about rushing; this is about focusing
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08:40 celeron55 even now i'm ending up fixing way more stuff than i would have wanted in the first place
08:41 celeron55 and in any case you don't even want a huge changeset from me that touches every part of minetest just because there were some small nitpicks here and there
08:42 hmmmm i hope it's not too much to ask for
08:43 hmmmm as much as you focus on your actual task at hand, commits should be as focused as possible as well
08:43 hmmmm otherwise what's the point?  might as well just attach a script to your IDE's "save" button that runs git commit -m "WIP"
08:43 celeron55 oh, you want me to explain that? well i'll explain that then
08:44 celeron55 (i didn't think i would have to)
08:44 celeron55 i make three kinds of commits when i am working on a big feature like this
08:44 hmmmm explain what
08:44 celeron55 type 1: a commit that implements or fixes something in an unrelated part of the code
08:46 celeron55 type 2: a commit that i made because i am either switching direction in my design so considerably that i might just forget how many times exactly to undo things to get  where i was, or i am just leaveing my computer and want to know where i was then (often called just WIP)
08:46 celeron55 type 3: a commit where i see that the subfeature that i was making now works; often called something more reasonable and intended to be at least squashed with all the previous WIP commits
08:47 celeron55 but i squash absolutely nothing before i have to, because i would be losing information
08:47 hmmmm so in other words, with your workflow it isn't so difficult to keep the unrelated things separated
08:47 celeron55 i recommend this to everyone, in fact
08:51 celeron55 i know how much attention span i have for this and that is how i budget the unrelated things
08:52 celeron55 it's not something you can choose
08:52 hmmmm shouldn't you be coding instead of talking right now?
08:53 celeron55 well, you were the one asking but i guess i'll go make some breakfast now
09:00 celeron55 you might be under the impression that i'm just making huge meshes on the client, but now i have actually spent days reworking the map sending algorithm so that it can reliably and efficiently support loading and sending this stuff
09:01 celeron55 this is much harder than i thought it would be
09:01 hmmmm what is the map sending algorithm now?
09:01 celeron55 i have ended up with the server choosing what to sent based on a few parameters periodically updated by the client
09:02 celeron55 it's essentially the same as before but, like, not a prototype made in a few hours like the previous one was
09:02 celeron55 and with these things required for FarBlocks
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09:03 hmmmm that is a rather vague description
09:03 celeron55 ...or i don't know if "essentially the same" is a correct way to put it
09:03 celeron55 ask a detail and i will tell a detail
09:03 celeron55 there are many details
09:04 hmmmm well you say it's essentially the same but then you say that it was a lot harder than you thought
09:04 hmmmm soooo..
09:05 celeron55 the old algorithm was kind of inefficient due to multiple reasons, and this one is less inefficient; and it contained multiple bugs that i had to sort out
09:05 celeron55 FarBlocks require this to be able to first determine what MapBlock and what FarBlock would be sent, and then prioritize between them
09:06 celeron55 then there's the logic that determines when to send a farblock because they are loaded from disk in such small pieces (that are MapBlocks)
09:06 celeron55 stuff like that
09:06 hmmmm just to be clear; FarBlocks are not saved to disk, correct?
09:07 celeron55 yes; i don't intend to save them; they are an in-memory cache (i guess)
09:07 hmmmm cool
09:13 celeron55 overally this is such a dynamic system that it is hard to test; but i have managed to break it apart into more meaningful smaller pieces so that's good
09:14 hmmmm yeah that's another thing I'm concerned about
09:14 celeron55 but the logic has to pull all kinds of information from everywhere in order to do what it needs to do
09:14 hmmmm many things in minetest are not testable due to the lack of separation of concerns
09:14 celeron55 not more than before really, but that was already many things
09:14 hmmmm would people be able to write unit tests for this new code?
09:15 celeron55 if you'd replace some direct references to things with interfaces, then possibly
09:15 celeron55 because the autosend algorithm is now a separate class
09:16 celeron55 instead of being mangled inside RemoteClient
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09:36 paramat now merging flat mapgen https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3313
09:43 paramat merged
09:59 paramat i appreciate the work on farmap, excellent feature, love the screenshots
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10:49 celeron55 i am happy to announce that the emerge system is happily coping with the utterly ridiculous amounts of emerge requests when the new algorithm (which finally works properly) is racing to load hundreds of FarBlocks
10:50 celeron55 well, properly in the speed aspect (in other aspects it's still WIP)
10:51 celeron55 or, well
10:52 celeron55 the only thing now is that the idle sleep is broken so it consumes a lot of CPU but that's easily fixed i suspect and i think i'll do it now
10:53 celeron55 or, not the sleep but the triggering of it... whatever!
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11:38 Megaf https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3357
11:38 Megaf #3357
11:39 thatgraemeguy that was done in _game, not in engine
11:39 thatgraemeguy it makes sense too, trees need light to grow
11:40 Megaf oh
11:40 Megaf ok
11:40 Megaf I will close the issue there and open in game
11:41 Megaf thatgraemeguy: minetest is not aobut realism, is about freedom, and that breaks a lot of stuff in my server
11:41 thatgraemeguy don't shoot the messenger
11:42 celeron55 thank god that is not an engine issue; at least something in this design is working 8D
11:44 Megaf celeron55: lol
11:45 Megaf https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/724
11:45 Megaf just moved the issue to the right place
11:47 thatgraemeguy heh, good luck
11:51 Megaf thatgraemeguy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/724#issuecomment-155751466
11:56 crazyR Megaf. You could write a mod to overide it. it wouldnt be that hard
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11:57 Megaf crazyR: I can not, I have no idea how to do that
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12:07 crazyR Il see what i can do if i get some spare time today. as i doubt they will change it back unless a lot of people demand it
12:10 crazyR celeron55 whats the deal with overiding abm's. can it be done, or would not register ?
12:16 crazyR actually scrap that, its not needed :)
12:17 Megaf Calinou: mosh is fantastic, I no longer have to reconnect to my server, it does on its own
12:17 Megaf wrong channel
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15:53 celeron55 the fact that in minetest node id 0 is just a random regular node is actually pretty annoying
15:53 celeron55 you can't just rely on arrays initializing at 0
15:54 celeron55 it's surprisingly hard to spot every place that needs to be explicitly set to CONTENT_IGNORE
15:58 rubenwardy Would it be impossible/difficult to change w/o incompatibility? To set CONTENT_IGNORE=0?
15:59 celeron55 here's some modern art: http://i.cubeupload.com/9gqPHU.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/qtJqfN.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/MtiQPF.jpg
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16:00 celeron55 rubenwardy: that would require looking up a huge amount of version compatibility details
16:01 celeron55 it would work straight away if you dropped old worlds and network compatibility but those are the hard part
16:01 rubenwardy So the CONTENT_IGNORE isn't declared by the server, it's a constant that's always the same
16:02 celeron55 the modern art i just linked is actually quite effective
16:03 celeron55 looking at it makes me almost feel like i'm suffocating
16:03 rubenwardy When a player emerges, does it create a dummy MapBlock whilst it waits for mapgen to work?
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16:06 * VanessaE hopes celeron55 pushes soon... wanna test ;)
16:09 celeron55 the problems in dreambuilder are reproducible, by the way
16:09 celeron55 and i can't figure out what causes them
16:10 celeron55 use less nodes and it works
16:10 VanessaE at least that rules out a hardware or driver fault
16:10 celeron55 i tried looking up some simple-ish errors i might have made but didn't find any (like using u8 in place of u16)
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16:36 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/BQWudzF.jpg
16:36 celeron55 nodetopia and mgv7
16:36 celeron55 it's cute
16:36 VanessaE that actually looks pretty good.
16:36 celeron55 ok i think i'll push now
16:37 VanessaE btw about dreambuilder, does it help you if I mention there are come 16,500 nodes in that game?
16:37 celeron55 i know how many there are
16:37 VanessaE (nodes/items)
16:37 celeron55 too god damn many
16:37 VanessaE lol
16:38 celeron55 pushed https://github.com/celeron55/​minetest/commits/far_map_wip
16:38 celeron55 now there is a setting called "far_map_allow_generate" that defaults to false
16:41 rubenwardy and 90% of those nodes are probably from homedecor ;)
16:41 VanessaE rubenwardy: actually, about half of them come from mods like colored woods, stained glass, etc.
16:42 VanessaE if the engine had in-the-map colorization of nodes, I could probably cut the item count in half.  meta_set_nodedef could improve that further.
16:45 VanessaE celeron55: did you decide if you're going to allow the farmap texture atlas to be used for general non-facedir terrain?
16:45 celeron55 why would it use the same atlas
16:46 VanessaE well you mentioned something along those lines yesterday
16:46 celeron55 well i'm not doing it in a loooong time
16:46 VanessaE no worries.
16:46 celeron55 if that's what you are asking
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16:50 VanessaE seems to work mostly.  one thing though is if the server lags, it loves to load in the farmap data before it loads in the corresponding "detailed" terrain
16:50 VanessaE maybe it shouldn't load either one in that case.
16:51 VanessaE (well, whatever you call the "server half" of singleplayer)
16:51 est31 that "color nodes" or "hardcode slabs into the engine" disscussion doesn't bring much. You still will have to address all those nodes some way, and every system you could think of would be less flexible than the current one.
16:52 est31 ofc, its bad that it pregenerates all the textures for the whole nodedef, but that can be optimized without introducing categories
16:53 est31 just generate them when you want to render a mapblock with that node, and un-generate them when you delete that mapblock from the client's env.
16:53 VanessaE celeron55: here's an example of what I mean by that: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_11-52-52.png
16:53 celeron55 yes; people shouldn't falsely think adding more identifiers alongside the node id and facedirs would make performance better
16:53 VanessaE (as you can see, the edge of the road is only 2 or 3 meters in front of me)
16:53 celeron55 if anything, each of those additions makes it worse
16:54 celeron55 VanessaE: i don't know what you are talking about
16:54 celeron55 or what that screenshot is about
16:55 celeron55 oh, you mean that
16:55 VanessaE celeron55: that screenshot is me running down the road and stopping when the game lagged.  you can see farmap terrain that shouldn't even BE there yet imho.  here's the same scene after letting the lag subside and the terrain load:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_11-54-12.png
16:55 celeron55 well, it's just a priorization system
16:56 celeron55 it can't magically help server lag
16:56 est31 hmmmm's map locking plans would help there I guess
16:56 VanessaE oh I'm not worried about the lag, that's just some inefficient entity-related mod or something
16:56 est31 but thats another discussion
16:56 celeron55 well let me add a thing to the client's configuration that you can use to control the priorities
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17:08 celeron55 okay, added
17:09 celeron55 https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commi​t/05850ce25ec2e0a2ae4bb8382d14d67ba778e817
17:09 VanessaE your timing is impeccable.
17:09 VanessaE not 2 seconds before you said that, I pulled :)
17:09 celeron55 set that lower if you want to prioritize regular map transfers
17:10 celeron55 i think i'll lower the default to 4
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17:10 celeron55 or... maybe 5
17:11 * VanessaE tries it with 4.
17:14 VanessaE 4, with a farmap range of 300 seems good
17:17 VanessaE hm.  note to self:  tell cheapie about the junkyard having been raided.
17:19 VanessaE make that range 200.  I think if you can sort out that "too god damn many" nodes ;-) glitch, you've got something very usable.
17:22 celeron55 use the built-in watershed and be impressed
17:22 celeron55 you want to up the range to like 700
17:23 VanessaE oh I was just keeping the range at 200 because this world just has horrible fps in built-up areas anyway
17:23 * VanessaE tries watershed
17:23 VanessaE hm.  watershed is not offers as a mapgen in the "new" dialog.
17:24 celeron55 (it's not in the menu but there are some ways you can get a world to use it)
17:24 celeron55 i just put it in minetest.conf and start a server at a new world, stop the server and then start singleplayer on it
17:25 celeron55 paramat had some other way
17:26 VanessaE editing map_meta.txt and deleting map.sqlite seems to work
17:27 VanessaE kinda. :P
17:27 VanessaE there we are.  it couldn't find a spot to spawn me, had to fly up to +230 :P
17:28 VanessaE hah, segfaulted :D
17:29 celeron55 it isn't segfaulting for me exactly all the time so you need to get a backtrace
17:29 celeron55 and i've been running it all day
17:29 VanessaE oh I'll grab a bt later
17:29 VanessaE just amused is all :)
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17:35 VanessaE your "topmost node" calculation looks to have an off-by-1 error
17:35 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_12-34-41.png versus http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_12-34-48.png
17:35 VanessaE (minetest_game, unmodified, mgv7)
17:46 Krock http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f324/a​nn1024/DevelopersAreBornBrave_Small.jpg
17:46 VanessaE heh
18:06 celeron55 umm?
18:06 celeron55 off-by-1 based on what?
18:07 celeron55 it doesn't use the leaves unless it has no other choice because leaves propagate light and thus aren't as solid as something else is that it prefers
18:08 celeron55 it desperatetly wants something solid; it's all it's got in life
18:08 celeron55 don't go mocking it like that
18:09 celeron55 also, you are still looking it up too close; it's never going to look good that close
18:10 VanessaE based on height?  what I mean is, why are tree trunks showing when there's nothing but leaves on the top layer (and certainly more of them than trunks)
18:10 celeron55 i just explained that
18:10 VanessaE well I guess
18:11 VanessaE but in practice, you really should be just showing whatever the cube has the most of
18:11 celeron55 that's a much more expensive calculation than to just go throgh one Y column
18:11 celeron55 how many leaves are there on top of that trunk?
18:12 celeron55 inside the farnode
18:12 VanessaE 1 or 2 nodes.
18:12 VanessaE if you flip between the two screenshots, you can see what I was trying to point out.  also look to the left, where you can see a chunk of leaves appear/disappear entirely.
18:15 VanessaE as for being too close, I only got up close to this spot to show the issue; I see this happening 50, 100 nodes away too.
18:15 celeron55 i think it's fine, but let me add a profiling timer in there so people can figure out if they can make it better without making it much slower
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18:26 celeron55 https://github.com/celeron55/minetest​/blob/5f0402b36e2208446250aca25df0aad​c9fbefe57/src/far_map_server.cpp#L98
18:27 celeron55 this is what decides how each FarNode looks like
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18:29 VanessaE yeah, that's the issue then, you only search the center column, so every so often you hit the tree trunk (as in my example), so you get what looks like a block of trunks, even if there are far more leaves.
18:29 celeron55 well, obviously
18:29 VanessaE yeah, in practice I don't think that's gonna satisfy users
18:30 VanessaE you've only got 256 nodes to search (and sort by count) in a block, I'd think the engine could do that in a couple of milliseconds?
18:31 VanessaE ..in a farnode block thingy I mean
18:32 celeron55 in a 1024x384x1024 area of map (which is roughly what you get when you use a range of 500), there are 98304 MapBlocks that the thing has to go through
18:32 celeron55 you don't want it taking a millisecond for sure
18:33 celeron55 that would be two minutes of purely churning that code
18:33 celeron55 currently it takes something like 13-16µs for me which is quite fine
18:34 VanessaE ok well maybe a millisecond or two is an exaggeration
18:34 VanessaE but that said, how long does it take to load that much map data in practice? (assuming it's already been generated)
18:35 celeron55 not as long as you think
18:35 VanessaE by my experience, that's at least 5-10 mins of flying around to get that much map loaded
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18:35 celeron55 i'm testing now
18:35 VanessaE that aside, if it takes 16 uS for one column, then it should take between 250 and 300 uS to search all 16 columns, including time to count and sort it
18:37 celeron55 looks like about 2 minutes
18:38 celeron55 and the average for that function went as high as over 30µs
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18:39 VanessaE oops.
18:39 celeron55 i'm of course using this laptop with a 512GB SSD and a quad core processor running at over 3GHz
18:40 celeron55 and 16GB of RAM
18:40 celeron55 so your values will be worse i guess
18:40 VanessaE yeah, I'm speaking in terms of playing on a server such as VE-Basic
18:47 celeron55 i guess i'll test something
18:49 celeron55 i made a simple implementation for finding what the most common node is and it takes over 400µs on average
18:49 celeron55 that's unacceptable
18:49 celeron55 it's 40 seconds from the total load time of 2 minutes; no way
18:49 celeron55 that would be ridiculous
18:51 celeron55 and this makes all ground be stone
18:51 VanessaE 400 uS is about in line with what I'd expect.
18:52 VanessaE ok so just find only the top nodes
18:52 VanessaE and sort those
18:52 VanessaE at worst, 16 entries to be counted (once found)
18:59 VanessaE and at least with that, you can be sure grass will remain as grass :)
19:03 VanessaE one thing that would be nice, but probably way too expensive, would be to sort each of the 6 sides of the farmap cubes
19:03 VanessaE so e.g grass on top, dirt or stone or something on the sid etc.
19:03 VanessaE side*
19:03 VanessaE not sure if it would actually look good though
19:10 VanessaE this is the part where someone is supposed to pipe up and mention that octrees would be the magic bullet :)
19:10 celeron55 this is way too slow
19:11 celeron55 if i try to do anything fancy in there, it goes to the range of hundreds
19:11 VanessaE (to that end, I remember a couple years ago some minecraft-related blog discussing how to do something like your farmap, but with variable-sized cubes)
19:11 celeron55 i am not interested in technical fancytalk like that; it's never actually useful and is just basically some kind of wankery
19:11 celeron55 if you didn't know
19:12 VanessaE I assumed as much
19:12 VanessaE :)
19:13 celeron55 i can tell you that this looks incredibly boring when the trunks are missing
19:14 VanessaE I'd say boring is fine as long as it looks more accurate
19:17 celeron55 well that's the problem
19:18 VanessaE damn it where is that blog post
19:25 VanessaE I guess the only sane thing to do, once you have an accurate way to "scale down" the terrain data, is to cache it in the map :-/
19:26 Warr1024 if you cache that metadata server-side, you could have the option of sending only that metadata to clients for distant mapblocks, too.
19:26 celeron55 meh; i'll just make it configurable and then everyone can decide by themselves how much time they want to waste in that function
19:26 celeron55 caching this is out of question
19:26 celeron55 on disk that is
19:27 Warr1024 is it going to be a lot of data or something?  or do you just not want to mess with the file formats?
19:27 celeron55 i won't do it, and it won't be accepted because it's not needed and complicates things too much
19:29 celeron55 why are you even suggesting that; it's ridiculous
19:29 VanessaE celeron55: because you're trying to create these meshes in realtime.  why?
19:29 celeron55 i think i got the result you want by checking four Y columns
19:30 VanessaE four?
19:30 VanessaE ok I'm listening :)
19:30 VanessaE (you can be sure you'll never end up with a tree turning into only trunks, for sure)
19:30 celeron55 well it looks almost the same as the other result
19:32 VanessaE if this were normal terrain (rather than voxels), this might have been helpful:  http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131596/​realtime_dynamic_level_of_detail_.php?print=1
19:32 VanessaE (it's not the page I was looking for, though)
19:41 VanessaE another related, http://www.sea-of-memes.com​/LetsCode64/LetsCode64.html
19:42 celeron55 i won't open any of those but if someone is bored, i guess those are fun
19:42 VanessaE just "thinking out loud".
19:43 celeron55 i think i'm going to end up with something that you might be okay with
19:52 VanessaE ok.
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20:17 VanessaE est31: you mentioned before about wanting to rework /clearobjects to get down into the 20 min range.  still going to do that?
20:17 est31 well I have it coded actually
20:17 est31 I just need to tidy it up
20:18 est31 but the question is rather whether its wanted or not
20:18 VanessaE well
20:18 VanessaE given that I tried to do a /clearobjects on VE-survival (local copy) and 8 hours later it was still chewing on it....
20:18 VanessaE 'nuff said? :)
20:19 est31 okay, then I'll tidy it up
20:19 est31 I just wonder how much of minetest's code to re-use
20:20 VanessaE at the time, I was trying to rig up a sort of "optimum test map" - an empty game dir (literally zero mods), so that there'd be nothing in the world but unknown nodes and zero entities.
20:20 VanessaE (basically a sort of "let's find where it is REALLY crapping out map)
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20:54 celeron55 this is fiddly as fuck
20:54 celeron55 nobody is allowed to touch this anymore after i make my next commit; it can only get worse
20:54 VanessaE what's fiddly about it?
20:54 celeron55 there are so many little details the output must conform to in order to be useful
20:55 celeron55 for example, if the area is mostly air, the result still cannot usually be air because it would reveal the underground
20:55 celeron55 but if the area is almost completely air by an arbitrary limit that i had to come up with, it will be considered to be air because otherwise, again, it looks stupid
20:58 celeron55 and i had to make it check 8 Y columns; otherwise it's too fiddly
20:59 celeron55 i mean, otherwise it has a slightly too random output
20:59 celeron55 but with 16 it goes above the time i am going to allow it to take
20:59 celeron55 even now it's taking 20% of emergethread's time
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21:00 celeron55 which is around 100us per MapBlock
21:02 VanessaE too bad your farblock size isn't 5x5, then you could use a 5-column sample (center and corners), which would probably be optimal
21:03 celeron55 that doesn't matter
21:20 celeron55 pushed
21:20 celeron55 i am not happy with this but i cannot make it better
21:20 celeron55 so that's what it will be
21:22 VanessaE actually, that looks pretty good
21:25 VanessaE you got some un-init data happening though:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_16-24-25.png
21:26 celeron55 no, that's just the same old glitch
21:26 VanessaE (mgv7, mt_game, flying into some newly-generated terrain, I think)
21:26 VanessaE oh ok.
21:26 celeron55 it happens in mt_game too during some conditions that i don't understand
21:28 VanessaE well that at least rules out "too G*d damn many nodes" as the cause. :P
21:32 celeron55 it seems that for some reason the mesh ends up with wrong texture coordinates
21:33 celeron55 when you go close to it, different meshes are rendered instead of the large one and then the effect disappears with the large mesh
21:33 celeron55 and stays in it
21:34 celeron55 or, well, a wrong texture atlas texture
21:34 celeron55 all of the textures that end up in them are valid as far as i know; they are just some completely random weird ones
21:35 celeron55 or... well if the atlas texture is switched, then maybe it can also contain some uninitialized areas that the others don't
21:35 celeron55 but i haven't seen such yet
21:39 VanessaE am I seeing this right that you're doing 4^3 at one distance, and then 8^3 further out?
21:40 celeron55 yeah, there's a further LOD level hardcoded to begin at 500
21:40 celeron55 and no, it's not 8^3; it's full MapBlocks at that point
21:40 VanessaE ah
21:41 VanessaE couldn't tell at that distance :)
21:42 VanessaE would it take a lot of resources to do 2^3 and 8^3 also?
21:44 celeron55 dunno, maybe
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21:46 celeron55 that's completely out of scope for me; it's not useful in my opinion compared to any work reequired to make it or any resources it would use
21:47 VanessaE this is actually pretty impressive.  I've got pieces of terrain visible almost 1000 meters away now, with farmap range set to that, and still managing 30 fps with a "detail" view range of 130
21:47 VanessaE (the whole strip between there and where I am is loaded)
21:48 celeron55 it's the power of huge static VBOs and as low level of detail as humanly possible :P
21:48 VanessaE heh
21:48 VanessaE one thing though, the detailed terrain is taking an ice age to load, yet the farmap stuff is loading instantly
21:48 VanessaE (well as instantly as terrain ever has anyway)
21:49 celeron55 that depends on so many factors that the complaint is useless to me
21:49 celeron55 it has always worked for me 100% fine
21:50 celeron55 maybe lower far_map_far_factor even more
21:50 celeron55 i mean
21:50 celeron55 what was it called
21:50 celeron55 far_map_far_weight
21:51 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_16-50-27.png  this farmap area here took 15 seconds to fill in with detailed terrain
21:51 VanessaE normally terrain like this would load in a fair fraction of a second at most
21:52 celeron55 well if there's a farblock nearby that is closer when the distance is divided by far_map_far_weight than those mapblocks, it will be loaded first
21:52 celeron55 is that server running anything laggy?
21:52 VanessaE this is vanilla mt_game on singleplayer.
21:52 VanessaE fresh map, mgv7
21:53 celeron55 did it have to generate it?
21:53 VanessaE yes, but the area you see in the screenshot was generated at least a minute or so before I snapped the shot
21:56 celeron55 i guess the farblock loading could make such an emerge queue that it will trigger the generation of multiple mapgen chunks
21:56 celeron55 and as it is a queue, nothing will get past it
21:57 celeron55 i assume you have far_map_allow_generate set to true
21:57 VanessaE ye
21:57 VanessaE s
21:58 celeron55 it kind of needs to heavily fill up the queue though because otherwise the queue will just run out and things will just idle if the stuff is coming from disk
21:58 celeron55 and then you'd get long loading times for no reason
22:03 celeron55 i guess that can be solved somehow if it ends up being a problem
22:04 VanessaE something of note:"
22:05 VanessaE the minimap indicates that distant terrain that has at least farmap blocks is not actually loaded.
22:06 VanessaE (if the "detailed" terrain isn't showing, that is)
22:06 VanessaE example:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-11-11_17-05-36.png
22:08 * VanessaE tries something..
22:08 celeron55 yeah the minimap doesn't know anything about the farmap
22:09 celeron55 the data is probably reasonably easy to pass there assuming the minimap is fast enough to process all that
22:10 celeron55 but maybe it needs a new interface for pushing low-resolution data into it so that it doesn't need to be upscaled first 8)
22:10 VanessaE something = turning block send distance up to 25 and adding the two "simultaneous block sends" params I use with my servers.  no effect though.
22:12 celeron55 the server only sends the distance that the client requests, and the client only requests the distance that it renders
22:13 VanessaE meanwhile, it's sitting here hammering two cores, but very little is happening on screen
22:13 celeron55 it doesn't push unnecessary mapblocks to clients anymore
22:13 VanessaE that's good
22:13 celeron55 it's probably generating some faraway stuff to be slowly created into farblocks
22:13 celeron55 don't expect to see anything in a good while...
22:14 celeron55 and expect the map size to go up like crazy
22:14 celeron55 that's why there is the setting 8)
22:16 VanessaE that would explain it to some degree then.
22:17 VanessaE in my current view (after a restart), render distance of 81 at 30 fps; minimap needs 128+ to fill it out.
22:18 celeron55 somebody can just implement the farmap-to-minimap thing
22:18 celeron55 i have never found the minimap useful or used it nor did i even want it
22:19 celeron55 so this is easy to prioritize to me
22:19 VanessaE minimap isn't important for this
22:19 VanessaE that's just something I noticed.
22:21 VanessaE interesting thing about that texture coordinate glitch is that it's consistent across restarts.
22:23 celeron55 it seems to me
22:28 VanessaE ok 9 minutes after a restart, without moving or changing yaw, it's still hitting 2 cores solid
22:29 VanessaE overlooking terrain that's long since been generated
22:29 VanessaE though every so often I see something appear in the distance
22:29 VanessaE something new*
22:29 VanessaE (like once a minute or so)
22:31 VanessaE bbl
22:33 celeron55 i pushed some profiler additions to EmergeThread and whatever
22:33 celeron55 now some kind of an average queue size is visible there along with some other useful stats
22:34 celeron55 i found a quite magical place in nodetopia+mgv7
22:34 celeron55 it's a tower of floating islands on top of a thick large forest which grows on the surface of a lake
22:34 celeron55 this is some intense stuff
22:35 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/oxSRUlm.jpg
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22:54 celeron55 hi proller; here is a new screenshot: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=197801#p197801
22:54 celeron55 8)
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22:57 hmmmm lol you're so proud of your farmap thing
22:57 celeron55 it's glorious
22:59 celeron55 actually what is even more glorious than it itself is how it gives new value to all of these generator things
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