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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-10-27

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Time Nick Message
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01:20 paramat trivial game#714 will merge later
01:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/714 -- Default/trees: Clean-up 'can grow' function by paramat
01:49 paramat now merging game 714
01:55 paramat done
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05:54 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/27eed1389b8bece41950c53b47acffb3bb0c83ee
05:54 hmmmm PTAL
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06:27 paramat seems okay can't see any mistakes
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06:56 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/a8cb7ad29aff5b3f9ae67e02c12b3a093e8234aa
06:56 hmmmm PTAL
06:58 hmmmm this is pretty much due to nerzhul ^
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12:01 PilzAdam did nobody notice that the current HEAD does not build?
12:01 nrzkt who broke the build ?
12:02 PilzAdam hmmmm
12:02 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/27eed1389b8bece41950c53b47acffb3bb0c83ee​#diff-a408137ced7567bc503aa6f6386af956L31
12:04 nrzkt hmmmm please do PR like other devs to make the CI verify the commits !
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12:06 PilzAdam or at least try to build it locally
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14:48 Megaf Hi all, minetestserver is not compiling here again
14:49 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/plain/318351
14:49 Megaf Help please?
14:49 Megaf Latest Irrlicht and latest LuaJit
14:52 PilzAdam Megaf, revert to one commit earlier
14:54 Megaf ok, known error https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3296
14:55 PilzAdam https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commi​t/c406438b95e3df181961add56a2511b96bd9d690
14:56 PilzAdam will merge in a few minutes
14:56 Megaf Ok, will wait instead of reverting
14:58 Megaf nrzkt: you there? Need a :+1 for that ^
14:58 Megaf :P
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15:03 PilzAdam hmmmm, you broke stuff
15:03 PilzAdam but no worries, I got your back
15:04 hmmmm oh crap what options were those
15:05 hmmmm could you please fix this the right way by adding <algorithm> to the files that actually use CONTAINS() and not basicmacros?
15:05 PilzAdam basicmacros uses find
15:05 PilzAdam and that needs algorithm AFAIK
15:06 hmmmm no, basicmacros does not use algorithm, files that use contains use algorithms
15:07 PilzAdam that is poor design if you need to always include header dependencies in the file that includes the header
15:10 hmmmm it's either slightly poor design or horribly slow compilation
15:10 PilzAdam if you want fast compilation then precompile the headers
15:11 hmmmm that's not an option for everybody and it ignores the problem of template code bloat
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16:02 luizrpgluiz what kind of developer can participate in minetest?
16:02 PilzAdam luizrpgluiz, everyone
16:03 rom1504 what are developer kinds ?
16:03 Calinou There are 10 kinds of developers in this world: those who understand binary, and those who don't
16:03 luizrpgluiz celeron55 participates in game development too?
16:04 PilzAdam sometimes
16:07 luizrpgluiz I had some ideas for the game would be a little more unlikely to put the game now, such as putting new biomes in the game
16:15 luizrpgluiz in the new version, will put more to 0.4.14?
16:16 VanessaE there are already enough biomes in the default game if you use mapgen v7
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16:31 est31 so,  #3292 already has one approval, but I think it should have a second one before merging
16:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3292 -- Add server side ncurses terminal by est31
16:32 est31 this is a larger patch
16:32 est31 (or a third one, depending on how you count)
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17:44 hmmmm I have to take a look at ncurses terminal for sure
17:44 hmmmm est31:  what is your take on CONTAINS() and #include <algorithm> ?
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17:54 BlockMen is this one needed now or not? https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commi​t/d3a567cf52fcaff57a7a8a9d1611133ec1489bc3
17:54 BlockMen hmmmm ShadowNinja ^
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18:14 ShadowNinja BlockMen: Unless something like that's already been merged, yes.  Just make sure that ServerError is caught somewhere when runnning the dedicated server.
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18:14 est31 hmmmm, about doing #include <algorithm> in basicmacos.h vs doing it in the places it is used, I don't really know. The second option would allow faster compilation, so I guess i'd take that one.
18:17 est31 BlockMen, have you seen 768596927458d4d1d4ae7914526311471d242555
18:22 BlockMen est31, so throw ServerError is not enough, i guess?
18:22 est31 I guess so
18:24 hmmmm yeah me too
18:24 hmmmm BlockMen:  I really don't know
18:24 hmmmm BlockMen:  that doesn't change any actual behavior of a mod crashing on a dedicated server
18:25 hmmmm that being said, nerzhul's original commit changing that behavior is pretty useless
18:26 hmmmm BlockMen:  I think I'll approve of your commit though, +1
18:27 nrzkt hmmmm, your commits breaking master too
18:27 nrzkt but i agree with this commit if it's necessary
18:27 hmmmm nrzkt:  the problem is I don't understand why you made the original commit that changed the behavior in the first place
18:27 nrzkt can't remember, look at the commit log
18:27 hmmmm and I checked, it really doesn't change anything
18:27 hmmmm yes, your commit message doesn't explain.
18:28 est31 well it does change something
18:28 est31 precisely the opposite what blockmen wants to get merged
18:28 hmmmm they still abort the application with SIGABRT
18:28 nrzkt maybe this was necessary when it was done but some recent refactoring hide this
18:28 hmmmm an unhandled exception is SIGABRT, a FATAL_ERROR() is SIGABRT
18:28 est31 it is good to have an unified way to exit the server with an error
18:28 est31 I use it in my ncurses console
18:29 est31 I only have to edit the implementation of FATAL_ERROR() nothing else
18:29 hmmmm actually an unhandled exception in the dedicated server will shut down cleanly without a signal
18:29 nrzkt if i remember, don't catching error generate a core dump
18:29 hmmmm because main() wraps run_dedicated_server() in an exception handler
18:29 nrzkt why did we need a core dump for a lua problem
18:29 hmmmm you don't
18:29 nrzkt if we don't catch this exception then servers will generate core dumps
18:30 nrzkt if enabled. Not on many Linuxes but on every BSD/Solaris
18:30 hmmmm it is caught in main() like I said
18:30 hmmmm FATAL_ERROR() aborts(), yes?
18:30 hmmmm that kills the application with SIGABRT
18:31 hmmmm ohh
18:31 hmmmm I understand what's going on here
18:31 hmmmm the UNHANDLED_EXCEPTION_HANDLER internally calls FATAL_ERROR() as well on a caught exception thanks to est's recent change
18:32 hmmmm VanessaE must have been running a release build which explains why she did not previously see a lua crash abnormally terminate the dedicated server
18:33 hmmmm so VanessaE likes the old behavior better probably because she has it running under gdb
18:33 est31 IIRC gdb had these nice tables about what to do when a signal gets caught
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18:35 est31 https://sourceware.org/gdb/​onlinedocs/gdb/Signals.html
18:43 hmmmm PTAL  https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/f839bdf553bc8221a3b8efcbc58e26a7e9f3e415
18:44 kahrl hmmmm: does that work? I always thought you had to put those under private:
18:45 kahrl (or in C++11, use =delete)
18:45 ShadowNinja ^
18:46 est31 also, shouldn't basicmacros be put in util?
18:47 hmmmm kahrl, yeah they are under private:
18:47 hmmmm est31:  irrlichttypes.h isn't in util
18:48 kahrl ah I see
18:48 est31 basicmacros doesnt use a single irrlicht type
18:48 est31 its generic, isnt it
18:48 est31 so it qualifies for util, no?
18:48 kahrl maybe add a comment above the macro that the caller has to ensure it's in private:
18:49 hmmmm generic doesn't necessarily mean it needs to go into util
18:49 est31 but why have you moved code in util/ back to src/ ?
18:49 est31 thats the wrong direction to move
18:49 hmmmm because why not?
18:49 hmmmm util/ is an extra level of indirection
18:49 est31 move stuff to subdirs, not from subdirs
18:49 hmmmm because of how fundamental these macros are I'd have to argue they belong in the parent directory
18:50 est31 it has to do nothing with fundamentality
18:50 est31 in fact, util is more low level than src
18:50 est31 src is for the application, util is for the helper stuff
18:51 est31 basicmacros consists of helper stuff
18:51 hmmmm then why are irrlichtypes_*.h headers in the top source directory?
18:51 hmmmm util depends on these defs
18:51 est31 well, perhaps they can moved to util as well
18:51 est31 or not, idk
18:53 est31 also, what was the reason the first place to split out to basicmacros.h?
18:53 est31 isn't MAX( a numeric operation?
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18:58 est31 and MIN
18:58 est31 ARRLEN is no numeric macro agreed
18:58 est31 and contains
19:00 est31 but I don't really care about that, I'm sure you had a reason why you did it
19:03 ShadowNinja irrlichttypes.h should probably be split into into itself and int_types.h (which would be based on stdint.h).
19:04 ShadowNinja Th int_types part should probably be in util.
19:11 ShadowNinja I did said split a while ago, but didn't clean it up and prepare it for merging.
19:17 VanessaE hmmmm: not a release build, but yet it is running under gdb.  maybe I just didn't see the SIGABRT in the past; there was a stderr/stdout redirect screwup in my start-server script (which I've since fixed) -- that plus seeing SIGABRT when I didn't expect it threw me off a bit (doesn't explain why the crash happened in the first place though)
19:17 VanessaE s/yet/yes/
19:19 ShadowNinja BlockMen: I think the right way to fix that would be to catch the ServerError properly and print it, and remove the "UNRECOVERABLE ERROR" message to prevent duplicates.
19:29 BlockMen ShadowNinja, so basically i need just to remove the msg from my commit now, since "throw ServerError()" prints it already and does not abort(), right?
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19:31 ShadowNinja BlockMen: I think the ServerError results in FATAL_ERROR being called by a catch(...) when running the dediated server (`minetest --server` or `mineestserver`) .  You should catch the ServerError and handle it so that that doesn't happen.
19:31 ShadowNinja (You should exit, but exit cleanly with an error code)
19:42 BlockMen ShadowNinja, catch it where? Sorry, but this area is complete unknown by me :\
19:43 ShadowNinja BlockMen: Probably in run_dedicated_server.
19:44 est31 but I guess it needs lots and lots of attention
19:45 est31 e.g. we should watch out that we don't kick clients twice
19:45 est31 only close the connection
19:45 est31 so its easy said, but I guess its more work than it seems
19:45 est31 to be really proper
19:46 est31 e.g. should we run on_shutdown callbacks?
19:46 est31 should we not do it?
19:46 est31 e.g. it could save inconsistent state
19:47 est31 so basically one has to look at all destructors of classes the server has and judge whether what they do can be done in the case of an async error
19:47 est31 which gets us to the question: when are async errors thrown
19:48 est31 if c++ unwinds the stack, it runs all destructors
19:49 est31 the next thing are future changes
19:49 est31 you have to watch out what you do in destructors
19:49 est31 and people who review code need to know that
19:50 est31 (c++ doesn't run _all_ destructors, only destructors of objects which live on the stack and whose context is left)
19:52 est31 so, we basically have to answer following questions:
19:53 est31 1. can the map be in an inconsistent state?
19:53 est31 2. should it be saved?
19:53 est31 3. should we run on_shutdown callbacks?
19:54 VanessaE save the map if it's consistent, but don't run lua on_shutdown stuff.
19:55 VanessaE (there's the potential, in the latter case, of throwing another error on the way down, which can confuse things)
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20:05 BlockMen ShadowNinja, ok im out of that. i will happily learn more about that but i think im the wrong person to fix that now.
20:07 paramat PilzAdam game#681 is updated and tested, should i merge later?
20:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/681 -- Fire: Add 'permanent flame' node by paramat
20:08 VanessaE "It is still usable when fire is disabled."
20:08 VanessaE I hope that means it's also properly nerfed
20:09 paramat yes it doesn't spread or ignite or remove anything
20:09 VanessaE ok
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20:11 BlockMen shouldnt it be called "fake fire" then?
20:12 paramat it's closest to maptools' 'permanent fire' because it causes player damage
20:12 PilzAdam paramat, it can be merged, IMO
20:12 paramat ok
20:20 est31 PTAL https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​96c6eaaf9e92958fb653fc101e04823121943064
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20:22 nrzkt est31 please do a pull request
20:24 est31 #3297
20:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3297 -- Environment: Time of day fixes and add serverside getter by est31
20:24 est31 nrzkt, ^
20:26 nrzkt creating commits every where without having pull request is a pure pain, please do pull requests :)
20:26 nrzkt thanks est31
20:27 nrzkt PR permit to build on many platforms. It should not be avoided
20:28 nrzkt at a moment somes spit because master was broken and they need master as a stable branch. Now we see master as a branch which could be broken. What happened ?
20:29 est31 nrzkt, your bot is broken
20:29 est31 https://jenkins.unix-experience.fr/job/minete​st%20-%20FreeBSD%20-%20Official/1768/console
20:29 nrzkt gettext ? :o
20:30 nrzkt http://pastebin.com/VQUCgkDQ
20:30 nrzkt it's installed and the lib is available
20:31 nrzkt did somebody change something on the gettext detection ?
20:32 est31 I don't recall
20:36 est31 so everything builds except freebsd, can I merge?
20:37 nrzkt i added some comments
20:38 est31 why const here?
20:38 nrzkt maybe fix the lower function too
20:38 nrzkt timeofday should be protected from modifications
20:38 est31 ?
20:38 est31 its u32
20:39 est31 u32 is atomic
20:39 est31 its copied when its returned
20:39 est31 if you modify it, the time doesn't get modified
20:39 nrzkt const is not for atomic it's to make variable not modifiable
20:39 nrzkt yeah i know :)
20:39 nrzkt but making it const permit to remove some problems due to incorrect code
20:40 nrzkt const is a best practice in many areas to prevent coding errors on variables which don't need to be modified
20:40 est31 it does need to be modified
20:40 est31 e.g. when I want to split up the time
20:40 est31 into minutes and hour
20:40 nrzkt split up in another variable not in the got variable
20:40 est31 then I do code like
20:41 est31 u32 time = getTimeOfDay()
20:41 est31 u32 minutes = time % 60;
20:41 nrzkt there is no problem due to const there
20:41 est31 time -= seconds
20:41 est31 u32 hours = time / 60
20:42 nrzkt i see the usage you want
20:42 est31 now I do need the -= seconds here because / rounds
20:42 nrzkt floor(time/60) ?
20:43 est31 well yes
20:43 est31 or (time - seconds) / 60
20:43 est31 but I say there are use-cases where having it const makes no sense
20:43 est31 but I'll make it inline
20:43 nrzkt as you want
20:44 PilzAdam <est31> u32 is atomic <- not necessarily
20:44 nrzkt est31: ok
20:44 est31 well yeah
20:45 est31 not atomic in a threading sense
20:47 est31 nrzkt, the whole method needs locking
20:47 est31 it does m_time_of_day_f += 1.0;
20:47 est31 in its last line it does something
20:47 nrzkt m_time_of_day_f++
20:47 nrzkt i see
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21:13 est31 okay, is the pr good nrzkt ?
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21:15 nrzkt yes
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21:18 est31 ShadowNinja, an atomic would work for the getters and setters, but it wouldnt work for stepTimeOfDay I think
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21:26 ShadowNinja est31: Well, use it werever you can.
21:27 est31 the values for these different things are inter dependent
21:27 est31 and I dont want sb to call setTimeOfDay during stepTimeOfDay execution
21:27 PilzAdam hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2145#issuecomment-151648316 seems like mapgen threads kill (server) performance for me
21:30 nrzkt est31 it's the goal of atomic
21:30 nrzkt you don't need mutexes
21:31 nrzkt primitive types can be atomic
21:32 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, wchar_t isn't 16 bit
21:32 PilzAdam it's 32
21:32 est31 no
21:32 nrzkt PilzAdam, it's a problem with locking, server and emerge threads are awaiting each others too many times
21:32 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Hm?
21:32 est31 wchar_t is implementation defined PilzAdam
21:32 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3298/​files#diff-acf4cb47cb3cc77b556b4a87dfc70217R47 this is misleading
21:32 PilzAdam est31, every sane implementation makes it utf-32
21:33 est31 What the fuck
21:33 est31 you really do this ShadowNinja?
21:34 est31 setting f32 to float?
21:34 est31 this is totally against specification
21:34 est31 these things are implementation defined
21:34 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Hmmm.
21:36 est31 windows has 16 bit: https://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/library/w​indows/desktop/aa367308%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
21:38 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Fortunately c16 isn't needed.  I'll just remove it.
21:38 PilzAdam est31, windows isn't sane ;-)
21:38 est31 PilzAdam, agreed, still we support it
21:38 ShadowNinja est31: I suppose it could technically be something other than IEEE 32-bt float.  I'll see if Irrlicht does any better.
21:39 PilzAdam est31, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/43839​46/conflicts-definition-of-wchar-t-strin​g-in-c-standard-and-windows-implementati see first answer here
21:39 ShadowNinja est31: Nope, Irrlicht uses the exact same float typedefs.
21:39 PilzAdam wchar_t should hold any character in a single type
21:40 PilzAdam so using is as utf-16 is invalid
21:41 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, if we don't do it better then why change it?
21:41 PilzAdam (and we should do it better, since we serialize this stuff)
21:42 est31 our float serialisation is very stability focused
21:42 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Because it's much cleaner.
21:43 ShadowNinja est31: That's a very nice way of saying "our float serialization sucks", but I digress.
21:43 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, all these Irrlicht namespace stuff seems much less cleaner than the previous workaround
21:43 est31 ShadowNinja, well its easy to implement minetest on non IEEE 32-bit compatible platforms
21:44 est31 and to implement it so that its fast :)
21:45 PilzAdam btw, all platform builds except linux fail
21:46 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: I disagree.  We used the standard types for u64 only( with old irrlicht), had to include stdint.h for irrTypes.h to work on BSD, imported the irr namespace in its entirety into the global namespace...
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21:47 PilzAdam if you do a proper f32 definition then it may be worth it
21:47 PilzAdam as it is right now, I don't consider it to be good enough to justify the drawbacks
21:48 est31 I haven't made an opinion on the other parts of the PR yet
21:49 est31 okay can I merge #3297 ?
21:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3297 -- Environment: Time of day fixes and add serverside getter by est31
21:50 est31 I originally came there from my ncurses patch, because I want to display the game time in the console
21:50 est31 but then I saw in what a messy state the time locking was
21:51 est31 so I had to clean up :)
21:51 est31 and I dont want to make it part of the ncruses patch because its mostly unrelated. But I want to use its functionality.
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21:53 ShadowNinja est31: Have you addressed nrz's comment?  And can you use atomics?
21:54 est31 yes, nrz agreed that the lock has to be fully scoped
21:54 est31 and about atomics, I don't think they can be used here
21:54 est31 perhaps I could use atomics on a new struct object that contains all type variables
21:55 est31 but that isnt the scope of my pr
21:59 nrzkt if you use mutex, full scope RAII is the better way there, but if atomic is possible, because we are using native float do it
21:59 est31 btw about atomics, can you perhaps find out how to add a compare-and-swap atomic operation ShadowNinja ?
22:00 est31 well, I could make the variables atomic, but behaviour would break if the step is called multiple times simultaneously
22:00 est31 or if set is called while step is running
22:01 est31 so no, I can't use atomics
22:01 est31 at least not without modifying how the code works
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22:03 luizrpgluiz for me the est31 did a great job putting the ncurses in minetest, I hope that all developers agree to put in version 0.4.14, it would be very good this update for the game and so help us as a player and server administrator
22:10 est31 so I guess ShadowNinja merging is ok?
22:14 luizrpgluiz est31: probably he should love you put atomics in the ncurses minetest update package
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22:16 luizrpgluiz est31: ^_^
22:17 est31 haha
22:17 PilzAdam est31, it's good
22:17 est31 ncurses uses alot of mutexed queues they can be easily replaced by atomic queues.
22:17 est31 okay merging
22:52 Gael-de-Sailly What about Autorun #3210 ?
22:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3210 -- WoW-style Autorun by duane-r
23:29 luizrpgluiz est31: if ncurses is very good for server administrators, because the staff ta finding bad without atomics?
23:30 est31 ncurses has nothing to do with atomics
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23:34 luizrpgluiz est31: hehe
23:36 VanessaE pretty sure ncurses operates at the "compound" level (let alone molecular or atomic) :P
23:37 VanessaE (in other words, luizrpgluiz your translator sucks :P )
23:39 luizrpgluiz est31,VanessaE: hehe,google translator ^^
23:39 VanessaE google translator sucks, then
23:39 est31 there is nothing better
23:39 VanessaE true
23:39 VanessaE but it still sucks :P
23:39 luizrpgluiz i am brazilian
23:39 est31 bing translator is worse
23:40 VanessaE doesn't kaeza speak Portuguese also?
23:40 est31 funny how the google translator says "the est31"
23:41 luizrpgluiz VanessaE: he is Spanish
23:41 * est31 confusing translators with nicks
23:41 VanessaE well you ARE the one-and-only
23:41 est twitter is taken
23:41 VanessaE luizrpgluiz: he is from somewhere in South America, Paraguay I think
23:43 luizrpgluiz :)
23:44 est man, I'd really love rust's enums here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3292/​files#diff-52aefc89649ac8ebcb0e79777158a43dR34
23:44 est basically I could spare the whole struct
23:54 Supertanker2 joined #minetest-dev
23:57 luizrpgluiz next daily update minetest for Linux, will have the ncurses? or before will test to see if it works?
23:58 est well I need approval first
23:58 VanessaE est: I take it you've tested its behavior under screen, tmux, etc?
23:59 est no, if you want to do it, you can do it :)

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