Time Nick Message 00:13 hmmmm in any case I'm looking for people to do a second look at that specific chunk 00:13 hmmmm working with the code made me understand all of the changes and the rationale for them a lot more than just looking at the diff in a web browser 00:13 hmmmm but still I might've missed something 02:45 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3248 "ABMs: Make catch-up behaviour optional" by paramat, is tested and ready for review if anyone is able to 06:08 OldCoder date time ERROR[main}: Client::handleCommand_ActiveObjectMessages: caught SerializationError:deSerializeString: couldnt read all chars 06:09 OldCoder hmmmm, kahrl, sfan5 highlighting because the 3 of you might be awake and the person affected deserves help... 06:09 hmmmm yes, it's a pretty standard error 06:09 OldCoder and that is a known core issue. Can any of you comment on the nature of numerous messages of this type and what to do? 06:09 OldCoder 06:10 hmmmm YOU can't do anything 06:10 OldCoder Right. Is the cause known? 06:10 hmmmm it's low priority because frankly it doesn't seem like it affects anybody outside of vanessae and it doesn't actually impact gameplay 06:10 hmmmm no, it's not. 06:10 OldCoder It is affecting me ATM. Apparently 100s of these. But if not known, not known. 06:10 OldCoder Can I simply comment out the message? 06:11 OldCoder The player affected, if it matters, is a 49 year old heart attack patient 06:11 OldCoder This is his therapy 06:11 hmmmm uhh... lol 06:11 OldCoder lol to comment out? 06:11 OldCoder Or therapy? MT is excellent for patients 06:11 OldCoder Socialization, creative outlet, pleasant hobby 06:12 hmmmm anyway if you're getting these errors frequently enough that it's actually causing an impact on gameplay then we should talk 06:12 OldCoder O.K. I will restart. What type of logging could I patch into the core if the problem resumes? 06:12 hmmmm on vanessae's server this only happened in momentary spurts around very specific areas for a short amount of time 06:12 OldCoder Happy to add printf 06:12 OldCoder Useful info 06:12 OldCoder Specific areas? 06:12 hmmmm oh no, you don't want to do that 06:12 hmmmm I tried that already 06:12 OldCoder printfs affect the problem? 06:13 hmmmm the printfs I'd like to add would effectively freeze your server 06:13 OldCoder They are quite volume oriented? 06:13 OldCoder 1M's ? 06:13 OldCoder Heh 06:13 OldCoder MY server is pretty fast 06:13 OldCoder Does that help? 06:13 hmmmm if this is as easily replicatable as you make it sound then I would just comment out that log message for now 06:13 hmmmm i'm sorta busy atm but i would like to solve it as it has been an ongoing problem since 0.4.10 06:14 OldCoder I must find out if it is replicable. It may be specific area. I will report back in 2 days if the problem continues 06:14 OldCoder Is this satisfactory? 06:14 hmmmm OK. 06:14 OldCoder I will restart and ask player to note patterns. We will then see if random or replicable. 06:14 OldCoder Thank you. 06:15 hmmmm I tried capturing this error on vanessae's server before 06:16 hmmmm because of the sheer volume of data it was near impossible to find anything of significance 06:16 hmmmm one thing i did learn is how incredibly inefficient AOMs are 06:17 hmmmm if you have a pipeworks mod enabled with many stacks of nodes or items, it's possible your server could be slowing down to a halt because of all the constant movement messages being sent 06:17 hmmmm slowing to a crawl* rather 06:18 OldCoder Yes 06:18 OldCoder It's pipeworks, is it? hmmmm But thought I saw it on a regular world. 06:19 hmmmm unlikely 06:19 OldCoder I've turned off half of pipeworks on that world 06:19 OldCoder Ah 06:19 hmmmm it's always possible though, but high volume seems to perturb the condition 06:23 hmmmm ShadowNinja: I'm about to push these three commits to upstream/master: https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commits/sncleanup 06:23 hmmmm more to come soon 06:23 OldCoder hmmmm, I'll be asleep in moments, but player reports issue is continuous and returns after restart. It is just his area. 06:24 hmmmm yea, I'm not going to be able to get to this tonight at all. 06:24 OldCoder Conditions may be ideal to debug the problem 06:24 hmmmm sorry. 06:24 OldCoder No sorry, just reporting 06:24 OldCoder Busy for a day or two myself. Noting that conditions may be ideal to debug the problem. 06:24 OldCoder Will comment in a day or two 06:24 OldCoder Zzz 06:26 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Weren't you going to make the none->always change? 06:26 hmmmm yeah that can come later 06:27 hmmmm I think I already messed with your commit enough as-is 07:29 est31 note that parts of the inefficiency comes from the way SAOs get used in pipeworks 07:29 est31 way too much, even used if nobody is there 07:29 est31 and the other part comes from how the server handles it 07:30 est31 AFAIK VE's servers are set up to transmit SAO messages to the whole server 07:30 est31 even if the player is at the other end of the world 07:30 est31 but I might be wrong with this 07:32 est31 so I dont think the problem is the protocol, its more the implementation 07:32 est31 but great work you did hmmmm btw on the logging pr 07:33 est31 finally it got merged 07:35 nrzkt2 est31: yes messages are transmitter to the whole server, like detached inventories in unified inventory, 3d_armor and more... evenif the inventory affect only 1 user 07:37 hmmmm oh it's not done yet 07:37 hmmmm there are literally 5 more commits to go, but these are barely related to logging at all 07:52 est31 hrmmm why is this code even there the first place 07:52 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3248/files#diff-baa4d2d0ffafdec2b86baf065fba252bR587 07:53 hmmmm so it doesn't divide by zero the line below it 07:54 hmmmm or at least that's the rationale 07:54 est31 oh, thats an argument 07:54 est31 perhaps it should be commented 07:54 hmmmm in floating point math, that wouldn't cause an exception, the result would just be infinite 07:54 est31 yeah 07:55 hmmmm the person who wrote this either forgot to remove that when it was changed to a float from an int or didn't understand floating point math 07:55 est31 my initial thought was that intervals is an int, and you jump if the actual_interval is smaller than trigger_interval 07:55 est31 but then i saw "float" 07:57 est31 the general problem I have with the PR is that instead of fixing a problematic feature we just offer a way to disable it 07:57 est31 it should be made real catch up 07:58 hmmmm I don't have a problem with it 07:58 hmmmm notice how it says "simple" catch up 07:58 hmmmm the implication being that there will be a more advanced version in the future 07:58 est31 this is the lua api 07:59 est31 we have to support it for a long time 07:59 est31 and not remove stuff without a good reason 07:59 hmmmm then maybe catchup should be an enumeration instead of a boolean? 08:00 est31 there is no real fast way to do enums in lua 08:00 hmmmm catchup = "none", "simple", "complete", etc. 08:00 est31 thats good old slow strings 08:00 hmmmm "catchup", "mustard", "mayonaise" 08:00 est31 heh 08:01 hmmmm I hate it too trust me 08:01 est31 well, its time spent during registering 08:01 hmmmm at one point I was going to replace all the flags and enums with constants defined in a builtin file 08:01 est31 it can be converted to enum on c++ side 08:01 est31 during parsing 08:01 hmmmm it is 08:01 hmmmm that's how literally all other lua enumerations work :) 08:01 hmmmm getenumfield() 08:04 est31 so yeah i like the enum idea 08:04 est31 generally I think there should be several different kinds of ABMs 08:04 est31 ones which get called upon world load 08:05 est31 and only then 08:05 est31 they would be good for replacing etc 08:05 est31 then ones which get called on newly placed blocks 08:06 est31 and those which get called regularly like we have now 08:06 est31 for the newly placed blocks we can have the lavacooling abm 08:06 est31 (newly placed around) 08:07 est31 but that use case is done much better once abms implement what I propose in #3003 08:08 ShadowBot est31: Error: Delimiter not found in "An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information." 08:08 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3003 08:08 est31 "Do leafdecay scanning in the engine" 08:11 est31 man, this sat around for 2 months now 08:11 est31 and I havent even started 08:12 * est31 lazy 08:26 est31 hrmm, any ideas, I want to rephrase the channel description of #minetest-dev on http://dev.minetest.net/IRC 08:27 est31 so that it includes something like "Development discussion of the core projects like Engine or Minetest Game" 08:27 est31 but that's too long 08:28 est31 (bc its not just about engine here, paramat always announces his game prs here for example) 08:28 nrzkt2 remove like and tell Minetest team projects 09:26 celeron55 i guess there should be an easy option to just turn off the visible error log on the client 09:26 celeron55 i mean, most users can't do anything about errors anyway and they still want to see the chat 09:27 celeron55 (sometimes it just becomes unnecessarily difficult to debug a non-fatal error in a reasonaable amount of time) 13:25 est31 agree celeron55. 13:25 est31 Those who get the errors can't really do anything with them. Other applications usually have error reporting for this / metrics etc 13:26 nrzkt2 +1 13:26 est31 (i dont know whether thats a good idea for us however, I'm neutral here) 13:33 waressearcher2 if someone takes source code of minetest and rewrites it in C, can it be considered a fork and it have to be also under same license or it would be a completely different source code and minetest's license do not apply anymore ? 13:33 VanessaE the license still applies. 13:34 waressearcher2 if its rewritten in any language the license is still applies ? why is it applies because what exactly is the same ? algorithms or variable names ? 13:35 VanessaE because you'd have started with the original source code, and being C++, I'm sure some of it would still work. 13:35 VanessaE now were you to read the sources and describe their operation to someone else who has never seen the source, and that person rewrites it, then it wouldn't be a fork 13:36 VanessaE "clean room implementation" 13:36 VanessaE works for closed-source software too in some cases. 13:36 waressearcher2 what if persone never seen the source but only bunch of videos of gameplay and he write the clone that looks and feel exactly as in video, is that a "clean room implementation" ? 13:36 rubenwardy It does depend on what you mean by rewrite 13:37 rubenwardy also, this isn't dev-like chatter 13:41 VanessaE waressearcher2: yes, as long as the person writing the code has never seen the original sources 13:41 VanessaE why do you ask, anyways? 13:42 VanessaE ruben's right. --> #minetest 17:24 eugd can #3199 get merged? i need to reset my fork. 17:24 ShadowBot eugd: Error: Delimiter not found in "An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information." 17:25 eugd https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3199 19:56 hmmmm I'm not sure what's holding it up 19:57 hmmmm I'll take a look at that PR and do a quick re-review