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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-10-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:33 paramat i might merge game#687 later in case anyone wants to look at it (various biome tweaks)
00:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/687 -- Mgv5/7 biomes: Add shallow dirt waters by paramat
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17:26 est31 anybody wants to review #3214
17:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3214 -- Add environment variable MINETEST_WORLD_PATH by SmallJoker
17:26 est31 #3212 is waiting for hmmmm basically
17:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3212 -- get_biome_id lua function by duane-r
17:28 est31 (paramat said "Someone more knowledgeable than me should check", the only one more knowlegeable on mapgen is hmmmm)
17:47 est31 wow 241 abms in dreambuilder
17:47 est31 means whole block gets scanned 241 times
17:47 est31 whole loaded map*
18:04 hmmmm abms are ridiculous
18:04 hmmmm let's see
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18:05 hmmmm heh duane brings up a valid point
18:05 hmmmm or at least so it would seem, but the official way of reading the shadow biome table is not documented
18:06 est31 abms are totally bad, agreed.
18:07 est31 I've promised to implement #3002 and #3003
18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3002 -- ABM scanning is very slow
18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3003 -- Do leafdecay scanning in the engine
18:07 est31 any further ideas on how to speed them up
18:07 hmmmm write a better alternative to ABMs
18:08 hmmmm it's not very possible to make ABMs faster due to their expected behavior
18:08 est31 which is
18:08 hmmmm something that works in bulk first of all
18:08 est31 it is very easy to make them much much faster
18:08 hmmmm how so?
18:08 est31 read the issues
18:09 est31 you can cache the list of nodes, then you dont have to scan everything
18:09 est31 and you can make faster leafdecay scanning
18:10 hmmmm I'm not so sure if adding caching would "fix" abms
18:10 hmmmm guarantees are simply too strong the way they are currently implemented
18:11 est31 can you please tell me actual points
18:11 est31 you said "in bulk" what do you mean with it
18:11 est31 is it this stuff soni suggested
18:11 hmmmm operate on whole mapblocks to begin with
18:11 hmmmm I don't know what soni suggested tbh
18:11 est31 where you register ABMs with passing a table
18:11 hmmmm no idea
18:12 hmmmm lua would get the entire block to work with, possibly using voxelmanip
18:12 est31 voxelmanip?!
18:12 hmmmm sure
18:12 est31 that thing that copies the whole content
18:12 kahrl how about replacing some of the ABMs with something like this: http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Tick#Block_tick
18:12 hmmmm i'd say pass the same voxelmanip around to each ABM call
18:12 hmmmm block tick, yeah
18:12 hmmmm that sounds exactly like what I would do
18:13 hmmmm right now the main issue with ABMs is that the guarantees in behavior are way too strong to effectively optimize
18:13 est31 what do we guarantee?
18:13 hmmmm you can do caching but depending on how you go about it this could break the guarantee
18:13 est31 that there is some method called every now and then, on these loaded blocks
18:14 est31 thats the whole thing
18:14 hmmmm what if an ABM modifies a block in the ABM, therefore modifying the neighbors
18:14 est31 or is there more
18:14 est31 well, if there is an edit, the cache gets invalidated
18:14 est31 and gets reloaded
18:14 est31 have we ever said "we guarantee this"
18:14 hmmmm I dunno man
18:15 est31 and do mods use that guarantee
18:15 hmmmm if it's in the documentation, then yes
18:15 hmmmm and mods definitely do expect a certain behavior
18:15 hmmmm at least I was told it's in the documentation by some people
18:15 hmmmm never actually checked myself
18:15 est31 thats all the documentation says: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modd​ing_book/lua_api.html#abm-activeblo​ckmodifier-definition-register_abm
18:16 est31 please correct me when im wrong
18:18 hmmmm well
18:18 hmmmm I guess it doesn't actually say it...
18:18 hmmmm if you want to modify the ABM behavior be prepared for a shitstorm but you're technically in the O.K. here
18:19 hmmmm lol I love how vague documentation for ABMs are versus documentation for my register_* things
18:20 est31 ahhh typo found!
18:20 est31 "added to minetest.registered_biome with the key of biome.name"
18:20 est31 its registered_biomes right?
18:21 hmmmm yes
18:21 hmmmm wait the key is biome.name!??
18:21 hmmmm no no no way
18:21 hmmmm I made it the numerical index
18:22 hmmmm ohh, maybe I changed it when I added object handles
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18:47 est31 either way, it would be great if doc was fixed
18:50 est31 yeah, seems like its integer indexed
18:54 est31 so #3212 is ok for merge now? you want to merge it?
18:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3212 -- get_biome_id lua function by duane-r
18:55 hmmmm yeah
18:58 * Krock drills the toothpick in pull #3214 : Any other statements?
18:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3214 -- Add environment variable MINETEST_WORLD_PATH by SmallJoker
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21:35 hmmmm Krock:  it looks good to me at first glance
21:36 hmmmm well there's a missing space in a while statement
21:36 hmmmm but i need to take a closer look at it to make sure there aren't any subtle mistakes
21:38 Krock Okay, thanks :)
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22:22 waressearcher2 I'm confused with the word "node" inside source code
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22:23 waressearcher2 I looked inside camera.h and there is that code: "inline scene::ISceneNode* getPlayerNode() const"    and the description is "// Get player scene node. This node is positioned at the player's torso (without any view bobbing)"  does that word "node" here means the same "node" as in world map ? like one "block" you can destroy ?
22:23 hmmmm no not at all
22:23 hmmmm whenever you see the word "node" in relation to something having to do with graphics, that's referring to an Irrlicht SceneNode
22:24 hmmmm you should be able to tell the difference between the two based on the type
22:24 hmmmm ISceneNode vs. MapNode
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23:50 waressearcher2 https://github.com/minetest/​minetest/tree/0.2.20110731_3 is that version the oldest available ? is there even older ?
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