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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-09-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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08:42 rubenwardy split default into smaller mods: https://github.com/rubenwar​dy/minetest_game/tree/split
08:42 rubenwardy WIP
08:48 T4im +1 nice
08:50 T4im I always wondered why nyancats were considered a "fallback if nothing better was provided" ;)
08:51 rubenwardy the aim is:
08:51 rubenwardy default_natural for dirt and stone and mapgen things
08:51 rubenwardy default_ores
08:51 rubenwardy mese
08:51 rubenwardy nyancats
08:52 rubenwardy default which includes all the other mods, for backwards compatibility
08:52 rubenwardy furnace
08:52 rubenwardy tools
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08:58 T4im why the dependency from default onto the other things? most mods include the depends on default through copypasta, and as long as it contains the fundamental things that everything really depends on (like constants), I can't see, where you would need it
08:59 rubenwardy you need to (opt)depend on things you're adding to craft recipes, afaik
08:59 rubenwardy I'll test
09:00 rubenwardy It'll make it a lot easier if default can be a functions only thing
09:00 rubenwardy currently I have to use default_util so that default_natural etc can use default* functions, as default is loaded last
09:00 T4im there's no issue with that afaik, as long as the inventory guides filter it appropriately (UI did show recipes with unknown items in the past, not anymore afaik)
09:01 T4im the only thing you end up having is, that the recipes that have the dependency not fullfilled are not craftable (obviously, since you don't have the materials!)
09:02 T4im and perhaps a few exceptional nodes like water might be needed as base
09:02 rubenwardy why?
09:02 rubenwardy what if a mod does minetest.registered_nodes["default:dirt"]
09:03 rubenwardy or minetest.override_item
09:03 T4im aliased properly?
09:03 rubenwardy yeah
09:03 T4im if its not available, you get your typical unknown node
09:03 rubenwardy but it won't be loaded at that point
09:04 rubenwardy say   default  A  default_natural is the load order
09:04 rubenwardy because A depends on default
09:04 T4im might I suggest: use "vanilla" for everything that you can't sort into a clear category, and let that one depend on all the others instead of default
09:04 rubenwardy if A tries to do minetest.override_item then is fails
09:04 rubenwardy if the item is in default_natural
09:04 rubenwardy no, T4im, it must be backwards compatible
09:05 T4im aren't game mods loaded before all non-game mods?
09:06 rubenwardy not sure
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09:06 rubenwardy what if they add a mod to the game?
09:06 rubenwardy anyway, gtg, I'll read the chat
09:06 T4im then they still have the old version without the split
09:06 est31 AFAIK you can add crafts for items that don't exist
09:06 est31 it doesnt work with node ids, it works with strings
09:06 T4im if they update with split, then should also update their dependencies
09:07 est31 and craft guides cant depend on every mod
09:07 est31 what they do instead is to execute code directly after world start
09:07 est31 like minetest.register_globalstep
09:07 T4im yea, that part isn't the issue :D
09:07 T4im actually I don't think there's any issue, but that part was the least
09:07 est31 or minetest.after forgot
09:07 est31 there are some issues however
09:08 est31 effectively its an API break
09:08 est31 but honestly I dont have much problems with it
09:08 est31 after all, its server only code
09:08 est31 so nothing that touches the network
09:09 T4im yea.. you could probably see it as api break.. though only because the vanilla game became api, which it never should have :P
09:09 est31 also its minetest_game, thats less stable than the engine api, as you point out
09:10 T4im it is a reference implementation turned api... turning it back to a reference implementation might be a good thing :)
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09:10 est31 I guess its both
09:10 T4im well,.. ok. yea :D
09:10 est31 but I'm not involved in mtgame development
09:10 est31 I do engine only
09:11 T4im what part mostly btw? what to pester you about? x)
09:13 T4im (ok, I get it, dangerous thing to answer :P)
09:15 est31 lol
09:15 est31 I am mostly familiar with the code I worked with
09:16 T4im :D
09:16 est31 which is mid level network, authentication (including init protocol which was implemented and partly designed by me), crafting (I had a speedup patch in april), some parts of the API, areastore, etc.
09:17 T4im rubenwardy: anyway, if you have game mods run before custom mods, you always have the game mods in a consistent state with whatever you split or do not split, as custom games will have their own split/unsplit version of default/vanilla/whatever
09:18 T4im est31: nice, so more universal than specialized :D
09:18 est31 yea sorta
09:19 T4im hmm.. weren't there some efforts to get crafting recipe removal/deactivation into the engine half a year ago?
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09:19 est31 yes
09:21 est31 the dude made multiple PRs, two crafting related, one, the speedup made it in because I lobbied for it, the other one is still rotting, like so many other changes
09:21 T4im :/
09:21 est31 crafting is one of those things that are highly complicated
09:21 est31 its almost as complicated as inventory movements
09:22 est31 complicated is the wrong term
09:22 T4im and potentially error prone, I guess..
09:22 est31 "hard to change" is a better one
09:22 est31 yea
09:22 T4im many special cases to consider etc
09:22 est31 the moment you touch the code, you have a regression at hand
09:22 T4im I can imagine :(
09:23 est31 later on you get a bug report by an user, and realize a tiny little edge case that triggered it
09:23 est31 then you fix, and the fix has bugs as well
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09:38 celeron55 if someone wants to touch crafting, unit tests can help a lot
09:59 est31 unit tests work well as regression insurance
10:00 est31 e.g. you have a regression, you fix it and add an unit test to never have that kind of regression again
10:00 est31 also partly they work to prevent regressions the first place
10:01 est31 but best is a good userbase which reports bugs quickly :)
10:01 est31 but yeah, minetest should have more unit tests
10:01 est31 especially in lua
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10:05 T4im tgey can also help find yet undiscovered bugs, if you put time into it.. but yea.. even if more people would attach tests to their bugsreports, the testbase would grow sufficient over time
10:05 T4im they*
10:06 * T4im already attaches one to any of his bugreports, if it's testable
10:07 T4im though, there are occasionally some things that would help in doing that, like #3161
10:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3161 -- ScriptApiItem::getItemCallback does not accept __call-able tables
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10:17 T4im or #3162
10:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3162 -- Provide commandline option to set individual settings
10:19 RealBadAngel hi est31
10:38 est31 hi RealBadAngel
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12:22 Megaf hm, cmake doesnt show a message about LuaJIT when it finds it, only when it doesnt, then it says that it will use the bundled one. https://paste.debian.net/plain/311041
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12:35 red1 could It be made more clear that minetest.get node group doesn't work anymore?
12:37 Megaf Little help? https://paste.debian.net/plain/311043 failed related to JSON when linking
12:46 Megaf Perhaps Minetest doesnt support the latest JSONCPP
13:00 Megaf Yep, compiles just fine with bundled jsoncpp
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13:15 T4im red1: what's the issue #? can't find it
13:16 red1 What issue?
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13:17 T4im have you opened an issue on github about this?
13:18 red1 no I thought it  was deprecated. But the wiki and docs weren't updated
13:18 red1 I will open an issue then
13:19 T4im doc indeed states its deprecation, but if it isn't working it should probably either be removed from the doc completetly, or still be aliases to the former
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13:23 red1 well the wiki isn't to clear on it. It says " returns rating. "
13:24 T4im docs/lua_api.txt: * Deprecated: An alias for the former. <-- implies it is working
13:24 T4im its just a minor issue, though, don't expect it to be solved too soon, just open the issue and wait x)
13:25 red1 Also what does get_node_level have to do with groups?
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16:50 paramat sfan5 what do you think about game#666 ?
16:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/666 -- Flowers: Make flowers wave when waving shader enabled by paramat
16:51 VanessaE so you're essentially turning "default" into a mini modpack?
16:51 VanessaE oops, that was old stuff.
16:51 VanessaE rubenwardy: ^^^^^
16:52 rubenwardy basically
16:52 rubenwardy it makes it more modular
16:52 rubenwardy and easier to disable / override certain bits
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19:39 RealBadAngel #3166
19:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3166 -- Send to clients only changed node metadata instad of whole mapblock by RealBadAngel
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