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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-09-01

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Time Nick Message
00:07 T4im joined #minetest-dev
00:09 est31 hrmm, these rules are a bit outdated, and not like the current consensus: http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines
00:10 est31 We don't have this "subsystem maintainer" thing
00:10 est31 anymore
00:11 RealBadAngel we had it before?
00:12 est31 "You can push something to upstream [1] only if two members of the core team [2] or the subsystem maintainer agrees on it."
00:13 est31 I interpret that so that the subsystem maintainer can push commits without asking
00:13 est31 inside their subsystem
00:13 est31 whether its a small typo fix
00:13 est31 or a 100k line change
00:13 RealBadAngel well, paramat seems to be using it
00:14 est31 paramat, do you use it?
00:14 paramat use the rules?
00:14 est31 from how I see it, paramat always gets agreements from other core devs
00:15 paramat yeah mostly stick to those rules
00:15 RealBadAngel i can remember many times when paramat just informs that hes going to merge something
00:15 est31 usually when I look at the according PRs, they either have a +1 by kwolekr
00:15 est31 or they got it via IRC
00:16 RealBadAngel maybe, but as for me it seems like an easy way ;)
00:16 est31 also paramat is no maintainer
00:17 RealBadAngel but acts like one
00:17 est31 at least not in that table: http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation#Subsystems
00:17 paramat but sometimes if it's sortof trivial and within my own authority (mgv7 artistic stuff) and get no reviews i'll go ahead
00:18 paramat yeah i think i should be a 'deputy mapgen maintainer' there
00:18 RealBadAngel paramat, AV is more artistic stuff and yet i was always one to blame, stop and fuck around
00:18 est31 I have no problems with that <paramat> but sometimes if it's sortof trivial and within my own authority (mgv7 artistic stuff) and get no reviews i'll go ahead
00:19 RealBadAngel and meanwhile you are making more and more controversial changes to the look of the game
00:19 paramat apparently i have part-authority over mgv7, biome api, but try to consult hmmmmm first
00:19 RealBadAngel that brighter grass just sucks big time
00:19 RealBadAngel theres no green in the game anymore
00:19 est31 I don't think we should have large code changes to be entered into git without approval from at least one other dev
00:19 est31 thats my main concern
00:20 est31 and the "who's to blame" thing isn't lived as well
00:20 paramat grass is much better but i'm still not totally happy with it
00:20 RealBadAngel thats what is called grass by now is just something iron washed
00:20 paramat i think the original texture is beyond repair
00:20 RealBadAngel its damn ugly
00:20 est31 almost half of the subsystem maintainers are mostly inactive right now
00:20 RealBadAngel no contrast at all
00:21 RealBadAngel paramat, your run into minimalism is not healthy for the look of the game
00:21 paramat the other game devs are busy, i do get approval from them
00:22 paramat i actually increased the contrast of grass
00:22 est31 RealBadAngel, I agree with your assesment the grass texture, but I've said I dont comment mtgame anymore
00:22 est31 insert "of" somewhere
00:22 RealBadAngel paramat, you have washed it out
00:22 RealBadAngel its not green anymore :P
00:22 paramat it's more classic minetest now, bright and attractive, matched to our previous texture in contrast, hue and brightness
00:23 RealBadAngel and its shit
00:23 RealBadAngel sorry, but true
00:23 paramat hmmmm and celeron couldn't stand the previous texture, rightly
00:23 est31 here we go
00:23 paramat =)
00:23 RealBadAngel celeron doesnt care anymore
00:23 * est31 gets a bag of chips
00:24 paramat i'm happy you don't like it, we have opposite tastes
00:24 RealBadAngel hmmm is flying around in his figthers
00:24 RealBadAngel you call them authorithies?
00:25 RealBadAngel they dont even play the fucking game at all
00:25 est31 *crunch*
00:26 RealBadAngel ask them when they have built something, walked a bit
00:26 paramat minetest and voxel games *are* minimalism, inherently
00:26 RealBadAngel they are not playing MT at all
00:26 RealBadAngel yes
00:27 RealBadAngel thats true, but some do like it nicer
00:27 RealBadAngel without losing voxel look
00:28 RealBadAngel ive managed to make default 16px look like next gen gfx, dont you think?
00:29 RealBadAngel none of voxel games around have such effects
00:29 paramat did you like the 0.4.9 grass? i tried to get it as close as possible. anyway i still don't like it
00:29 RealBadAngel youre an enemy of smooth lighting even
00:29 paramat no i like that now, and use it
00:30 RealBadAngel heh
00:30 RealBadAngel you didnt liked round minimap too:P
00:30 paramat i like that now too
00:30 VanessaE paramat: you like smooth lighting..you mean for the, like, two node types it actually works on? ;)
00:30 RealBadAngel i think i will give you some time to get used to relief mapping ;)
00:31 paramat but don't see the point of a map that shows what you can already see
00:31 est31 you dont have always fly
00:31 est31 and its cool
00:33 paramat it's fun for a few minutes, but i can't see the point, if it built up a map of a gaming session's journey that would be better
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00:34 paramat sorry but i don't like parallax occlusion or bumpmapping, i find fake 3D effects ugly
00:35 RealBadAngel but some do
00:35 est31 they are better than gazillions of polygons
00:35 paramat yeah it's popular
00:35 est31 because this kills fps
00:35 RealBadAngel not all of us are using that intel gpu :P
00:36 RealBadAngel sorry i meant intel "gpu" ;)
00:36 RealBadAngel and smooth lighting for me is something different: http://i.imgur.com/T8wf2tp.png
00:37 RealBadAngel i could make this real long time ago and polish that with some help
00:38 paramat waving water has upper and lower surface bugs, and the motion of waving plants is poor quality, a single frequency smoothed triangle wave
00:38 RealBadAngel waving water is the thing to be removed
00:38 est31 lower?
00:38 paramat i would love realtime shadows though
00:38 est31 I only know upper
00:38 RealBadAngel it was jeija code
00:39 est31 I like waving water
00:39 paramat i seem to remember a lower surface problem
00:39 RealBadAngel when reflections and refractions will come waving water will become just outdated
00:39 est31 #3075 ?
00:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3075 -- [Bug] Interruption of water by waving water shader
00:40 RealBadAngel this code is not to be fixed just to removed imho
00:40 RealBadAngel same as finite liquids, another dead end
00:40 paramat well that issue is the upper, i seem to remember a lower surface bug .. ?
00:41 est31 finite liquids are no dead end
00:41 est31 their implementation was shit
00:41 est31 at least I've heard
00:41 est31 so they got removed
00:41 est31 but having finite liquids is important IMO
00:41 paramat okay shall we remove waving water or leave it to you?
00:41 est31 some games need it
00:41 RealBadAngel it was good enough
00:42 RealBadAngel at least it was working
00:42 RealBadAngel and then it was a good start to make it better
00:42 est31 I wont remove it
00:42 RealBadAngel now mt has lack of shit
00:42 RealBadAngel starved to death? ;)
00:43 RealBadAngel good way to fix things, shot down in the craddle ;)
00:44 RealBadAngel oops sooooooorry, i do remember better example of a feature murdered early
00:44 RealBadAngel circuits simulator
00:44 est31 all of those before my time
00:44 RealBadAngel redstone and red power 2 was two things that kept me playing mc for more than 2 years
00:45 RealBadAngel and mt team just spit on it
00:45 RealBadAngel not all are thinkin sandbox is about to put a dirt on another dirt :P
00:46 RealBadAngel if you do, then you are targeting kiddies :P
00:47 paramat RBA could you make a PR to remove waving water from MT? or should we do it?
00:48 RealBadAngel paramat, no problemo
00:48 est31 but why should we remove it
00:48 RealBadAngel because its ugly and obsolete
00:49 est31 why is it obsolete
00:49 est31 if we would remove all ugly things, we wouldnt have grass on dirt, and no iron or gold blocks
00:49 RealBadAngel geometry of the water surface will handle way better math than that
00:49 est31 RealBadAngel, thats all future
00:49 est31 first get a replacement up and running
00:49 RealBadAngel not really
00:49 est31 then lets talk about removing
00:49 est31 not the other way round
00:50 RealBadAngel heck, that code is here for half a year?
00:50 RealBadAngel or more?
00:50 RealBadAngel same for lava?
00:50 est31 where
00:50 RealBadAngel but masters of the universe dont like it :P
00:51 est31 ah that surface shader pr
00:51 est31 well, shrug, perhaps we should add it
00:51 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3R16QASBY
00:51 est31 but removing options is stupid
00:51 RealBadAngel just an example, its tweakable
00:52 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x6w0wspmPo
00:52 est31 it still has that waving surface, no?
00:53 RealBadAngel no
00:53 RealBadAngel its bumpmapping
00:53 est31 no
00:53 RealBadAngel ouch, in this vid geometry is on
00:53 RealBadAngel sorry
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00:55 RealBadAngel anyway, im aiming for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkskiSza4p0
00:56 RealBadAngel the water you have saw in the first vid is using same math as in this one
00:56 RealBadAngel but had no reflections and refractions
00:57 RealBadAngel those were impossible to make without tangent space
00:59 RealBadAngel so i just tinted the water with a colour
01:01 RealBadAngel anyway, nowadays game without shaders is just a mistake, so i wont code any fallbacks anymore
01:02 RealBadAngel any candie from now on will require shaders in modern version
01:02 RealBadAngel and i wont care about standards from age of dinosaurs
01:03 hmmmm i thought you quit MT
01:03 RealBadAngel really?
01:04 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=13094
01:04 RealBadAngel here you have something brand new ;)
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01:06 RealBadAngel not to mention damn signs im workin on for two weeks or more already ;)
01:06 RealBadAngel and i thought they gonna take me day or two lol
01:11 est31 #3129 hmmmm might interest you
01:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3129 -- Hide minimap if it has been disabled by server by est31
01:11 hmmmm whoops
01:11 hmmmm looks good to me
01:12 est31 ok gonna merge it then
01:14 est31 but testing it first
01:16 RealBadAngel as for now it may work
01:16 RealBadAngel later on that should be just an minimap API function
01:16 RealBadAngel so lua mod can turn it on or off
01:17 est31 well, it has been a quick hack
01:17 RealBadAngel as for now its good enough
01:17 est31 nobody around that time liked my proper way of rolling it
01:17 RealBadAngel when api will come i will just use it
01:18 RealBadAngel i mean ability for example give that right to admin or a player who crafted and is wielding an item
01:18 est31 yeah, this works right now
01:19 est31 but they have to press f9 first
01:19 est31 I would have liked to avoid that
01:19 est31 with my approach
01:19 paramat RBA what do you think about removing the normalmap for treetops? a sawn log needs flat ends
01:19 RealBadAngel i will make them look more flat
01:20 RealBadAngel agree, theyre a bit too much bumped atm
01:20 paramat erm completely flat doesn't need a normalmap
01:20 est31 but we took the hack, because "oh no, its *another* extra packet just for minimap!", and "we are in a freeze, we cant add features"
01:20 est31 well, you can disable it, this is most important
01:20 RealBadAngel paramat, to fit the style they have to be bumped
01:20 est31 rest can come later, we agreed on this
01:20 RealBadAngel anything other will look like from another cartoon
01:21 RealBadAngel something just a bit softer would do i think
01:21 RealBadAngel est31, master branch is development branch
01:21 paramat naw, any relief is wrong and unnecessary graphics load
01:22 RealBadAngel paramat, zero displacement cost the same as max
01:22 paramat any tips for using the normalmap add-on in gimp? i noticed you use transparency, what does this control?
01:22 RealBadAngel forget gimp
01:23 RealBadAngel that plugin is unuseable
01:23 paramat i couldn't get enough 'depth' for the mortar of brick textures
01:23 RealBadAngel results are shit, our autogen is doing way better
01:23 RealBadAngel lemme find the link
01:24 est joined #minetest-dev
01:24 RealBadAngel https://github.com/kmkolasinski/AwesomeBump
01:24 paramat if there is no normalmap, does MT fallback to flat or autogen?
01:24 RealBadAngel to autogen if its enabled
01:25 RealBadAngel if disabled to nothing, so flat
01:25 paramat 'generate normalmaps'?
01:25 RealBadAngel yes
01:25 paramat ah okay
01:25 RealBadAngel but theres something before
01:25 RealBadAngel override_normal.png
01:26 RealBadAngel if you put such file in any of your textures path it will just override anything else
01:27 RealBadAngel est31, ive found AB to be an ultimate tool for creating normal maps
01:27 RealBadAngel its simply awesome ;)
01:29 RealBadAngel paramat, https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=4&amp;t=8714
01:29 RealBadAngel i think that one (or one like that) should become default option
01:30 RealBadAngel using premade map is way less costly than autogen
01:30 RealBadAngel i like autogen code because its producing quite nice effects. but its absurdly costly, even for modern gpus
01:30 paramat and autogen creates incorrect relief too, working with pixel value
01:30 RealBadAngel ofc
01:31 RealBadAngel it cannot recognize shapes
01:31 RealBadAngel or know the meaning of areas
01:31 paramat yep so i agree
01:31 RealBadAngel thats why hand made map for bricks is better
01:31 paramat so, is parallax occlusion needed now there is superior bumpmapping?
01:32 RealBadAngel parallax occlusion is dead code too, its effectively replaced now with relief mapping
01:33 RealBadAngel bumpmapping on the other hand is totally different effect
01:33 RealBadAngel parallax and relief mapping are geometry effects
01:33 RealBadAngel bumpmapping is about light
01:34 RealBadAngel so you cannot say one is better than another
01:35 RealBadAngel you need both of them
01:35 paramat yeah. i guess our parallax occlusion works with autogen maps, can it use dedicated normalmaps?
01:35 RealBadAngel parallax mapping is flawed by its definition
01:36 RealBadAngel it was working ok with low heights and small angles
01:36 RealBadAngel was faster, thats for sure
01:36 RealBadAngel but artifacts produced by using by this method were unacceptable
01:37 RealBadAngel atm mt is defaulted to relief mapping, more costly but not for modern gpus
01:37 RealBadAngel they can do that meanwhile ;)
01:38 RealBadAngel and yes, parallax and relief mapping SHOULD use premade maps
01:39 RealBadAngel autogen is meant rather for shadows, read bumpmapping
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01:39 RealBadAngel geting height from average color is wrong
01:39 RealBadAngel works for some nodes, quite nice but in general for those without a pattern
01:40 RealBadAngel if YOU know that brick should be higher than white mortar... well youre smarter ;)
01:40 RealBadAngel shader have no way even to examine whole image
01:41 RealBadAngel it works by sampling pixels around
01:44 RealBadAngel thats a main reason i started to make maps for the textures
01:44 RealBadAngel i wanted to make the look a bit softer, then make effect more visible
01:45 RealBadAngel but primarily i wanted to expose shapes
01:46 paramat so if autogen is heavy code perhaps it should be removed soon
01:46 RealBadAngel thats a goal
01:47 RealBadAngel but propably should be left just in case
01:47 RealBadAngel we cant support textures for all the mods out there
01:48 RealBadAngel but then, when we have all the basic textures it wont cause so much harm
01:48 RealBadAngel it will be just a fallback
01:48 RealBadAngel before i started to push maps it was a main feature
01:49 paramat ok
01:49 RealBadAngel with more and more maps rdy, it will be more like a fallback
01:51 RealBadAngel but anyway, have you watched closely Tiled texture pack screenshots?
01:53 RealBadAngel this approach, with one chosen map, can provide full relief mapping and bumpmapping experience while using just one texture
01:53 est hmmmm, can you look at it again, I've needed to pass a value to the game https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​d285918598254b2daf7cd723b19cf5c5704dd5c7
01:53 RealBadAngel and thus, it shall be reconsidered to be main feature
01:54 RealBadAngel like "have it all with minimal price"
01:55 RealBadAngel personally i like the Lego version :)
01:55 RealBadAngel without Lego logo on it ofc ;)
01:56 RealBadAngel but dare to say that lego wont fit voxel worlds :)
01:56 paramat yep i looked. i actually love LEGO
01:56 RealBadAngel this map actually looks like lego brick
01:56 est but now hmmmm I've tested it, it works
01:56 RealBadAngel but doesnt have logo on it
01:57 RealBadAngel many cheap toys are using the same shape
01:57 est hmmmm, the pr is #3129
01:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3129 -- Hide minimap if it has been disabled by server by est31
01:57 est gtg
01:57 RealBadAngel so its like using wheel shape or something equally trivial
01:59 hmmmm yeah looks good again
01:59 hmmmm heh
01:59 RealBadAngel paramat, please do note that Tiled was made without displacement
01:59 hmmmm just remove the errorstream << ""
01:59 RealBadAngel its only bumpmapping
01:59 RealBadAngel so, if it was remade, effect would be for sure much nicer
01:59 RealBadAngel hmmmm, howdy
01:59 paramat ok
02:00 hmmmm est:  sorry about the hackiness this requires, but it's a good way to make the minimap disable-able in my opinion, without cementing the interface in stone
02:00 hmmmm once there's a version release we need to maintain that backward compatibility
02:01 RealBadAngel hmmmm, apart from some server maintainers that funcionality is not atm needed, but that code will be useful for the API
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02:02 RealBadAngel its completely client side feature. you can see the very same with your client camera
02:04 RealBadAngel times when one was playing Knight Lore and was drawing the map on a piece of paper are long gone, dont you think?
02:09 paramat hehe i played Knight Lore on my ZX Spectrum
02:11 RealBadAngel ZX was my first comp ever
02:12 RealBadAngel btw, have you saw it reborn?
02:13 RealBadAngel https://www.indiegogo.com/projects​/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega#/story
02:15 paramat yeah
02:17 RealBadAngel when they make it aviable i need to buy it definitely
02:17 hmmmm pass
02:17 RealBadAngel hmmmm, what? it doesnt fly or what? ;)
02:17 hmmmm it's yet another noname ARM quad core thing running a zx spectrum emulator on some type of linux
02:18 RealBadAngel you just dont get it :P
02:18 hmmmm i think what i'd be interested in is an actual ZX spectrum clone, with real hardware
02:18 RealBadAngel look at sam coupe hw then
02:19 RealBadAngel it has hdds, net, soundcards
02:21 RealBadAngel http://www.samcoupe.com/index.htm
02:21 RealBadAngel most powerfull 8bit machine ever
02:21 RealBadAngel and fully compatible with ZX
02:26 RealBadAngel i was looking for coupe in good condition, it costs about 500 pounds
02:29 RealBadAngel http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301716981939?c​lk_rvr_id=892393478238&amp;item=301716981939&​amp;lgeo=1&amp;vectorid=229508&amp;rmvSB=true
02:29 RealBadAngel wow, 749
02:35 RealBadAngel masterpiece
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04:54 paramat now merging game#659
04:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/659 -- Default/trees: Add not-force-placed tree schematics grown from saplings by paramat
04:59 paramat complete
05:01 paramat next i will fix my mistake of acacia leaves not waving
05:14 paramat game#660
05:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/660 -- Default/nodes: Fix acacia leaves not waving by paramat
05:16 paramat now merging
05:19 paramat complete
05:28 paramat game#661 any comments?
05:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/661 -- Flowers don't wave 0/
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10:35 Megaf VanessaE:Are you still suffering with leaks?
10:35 Megaf Minetest client here will easily use all 4 GB of ram, with e erything turned off, opaque leaves, draw distance to 40 meters
10:40 T4im you can't compare client ram usage with server ram usage though
10:48 Megaf I'm not
10:55 T4im ah, pardon, thought you were talking about the recent lua out-of-memories she's experiencing :D
10:56 T4im which btw would be less of a problem from what I read earlier in lua5.2 again :/ that one makes an emergency garbage collection when allocation fails
10:56 T4im which at the very least would give the system a fighting chance in these scenarios
10:57 Calinou -ELUAJIT_DOES_NOT_WANT_5.2
10:57 Calinou sad but true
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11:57 Megaf nrzkt: You there?
11:58 iqual joined #minetest-dev
11:59 nrzkt here
11:59 Megaf Can you join #Minetest please?
12:00 Megaf is not about mt dev
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14:21 RealBadAngel Megaf, whats your problem?
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14:52 neoascetic hi all. someone please merge #3117
14:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic
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16:18 CraigyDavi We should really review the process of pull-request merging. Both in core and in minetest_game. Comments should be left on every pull request explaining what needs to be done for it to be accepted. e.g. - Tabs need to be converted to spaces and 1 more core developer needs to review this. It just gets frustrating for those who want to contribute and have their contributions left in a massive pile with no feedback.
16:19 CraigyDavi neoascetic, you have made a good point here https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/3117#issuecomment-136096242 It shouldn't take 2 days after sometimes is fixed on an active project like this.
16:19 CraigyDavi </rant>
16:20 Calinou CONTRIBUTING.md can do this
16:20 Calinou we need one indeed
16:20 CraigyDavi We could use the GitHub API to automatically add 5 tick-boxes for the 5 requirements. They can then be ticked off by collaborators as outlined here http://dev.minetest.net/Merging​_core_pull_requests_to_upstream
16:20 CraigyDavi Yes that's what we need
16:20 celeron55 we have this from the core developer perspective: http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelin​es#Upstream_pull_requests_and_issues
16:21 celeron55 it's just that nothing forces anyone to look at any pull requests; if people regularly looked at them, those rules would already suffice
16:21 celeron55 and i do not think i can force anyone to do it
16:21 celeron55 nor can we as a team
16:22 celeron55 it's a motivation and time thing
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16:23 CraigyDavi Well those are some good ideas outlined. but I think that there isn't really much motivation needed - the vast majority of pull requests can be reviewed in a matter of minutes.
16:24 celeron55 i can do one thing that will help in this: i can add motivated people to the core team
16:24 CraigyDavi So it's literally 5 minutes of reviewing 1-2 pull requests every 1-2 days by  2 people. Not too much to ask? :)
16:25 celeron55 (adding motivation to existing members is a bit difficult)
16:25 rubenwardy you should spend more than 5 minutes if it's non-trivial
16:26 CraigyDavi That might be a good idea if there are people who are aware of all the guidelines and can check that the contributions meet guidelines
16:28 celeron55 maybe CraigyDavi could be a contributor-focused member of the core team who would poke the people needed to review each new pull request? 8)
16:28 * celeron55 the lazy delegator
16:29 * celeron55 is aware that he is going to be poked too, though
16:30 CraigyDavi I'd be happy to be a poker if people can't poke themselves :)
16:30 celeron55 i'm not sure if this is a good idea, but i'm interested in trying and seeing and throwing it away if it isn't
16:31 celeron55 kahrl_, sfan5, nore, nrzkt, Tesseract: comments?
16:32 nore seems like a good idea to me
16:32 neoascetic let's strart with CONTRIBUTING.md?
16:32 CraigyDavi Neither am I, but at least a few changes need to be made to guidelines/CONTRIBUTING.md so people can be motivated to review a few things once every feww days
16:33 rubenwardy hmmmm and paramat (I think) started this thing of having review sessions once a week, don't know when the last one was.
16:34 rubenwardy Rebase needed can be removed from here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1869
16:34 celeron55 CraigyDavi: you can propose any changes; just tell the details and we'll see
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16:34 nrzkt i don't think it's necessary, i already look at the issues and comment it when i can comment it
16:35 celeron55 (of course no changes will be made if they're not actually necessary or the changes don't actually make sense)
16:37 neoascetic Ok, we have "High priority" labels at #3117 for 4 days and "Blocker" for 2 days. Does it work at all?
16:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic
16:37 celeron55 i think all that is really needed right now for this to happen is that everyone who agrees to being poked by CraigyDavi in this experiment says to him that they want to be poked
16:37 celeron55 (otherwise some people might just get annoyed)
16:37 neoascetic This is a pretty trivial change and all tests passed.
16:38 * nore agrees
16:38 * celeron55 agrees (obviously)
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16:39 neoascetic Okay, and I think it would be great to setup OSX testing. At least breaking changes wouldn't be applied then. I'll try to work on integration
16:41 celeron55 neoascetic: lol, those labels are ridiculous
16:44 celeron55 neoascetic: as i commented to it, it doesn't break OSX, but might break windows; be careful
16:45 CraigyDavi Ok, well my first poke goes to #3128 . Someone should re-run travis / find out why the before_install.sh doesn't work with the commit.
16:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914
16:45 celeron55 CraigyDavi: you can't poke PRs, you have to poke people to make something happen :P
16:46 celeron55 or, well, what am i to say; maybe that's enough
16:46 CraigyDavi I would poke PilzAdam but he hasn't agreed
16:46 celeron55 (...and he's not here)
16:47 CraigyDavi So I'll poke you celeron55, re-run travis please :)
16:47 celeron55 i don't even know how travis works
16:48 rubenwardy you need to push  a new commit
16:48 rubenwardy to that branch to trigger a rebuild
16:49 celeron55 tell that to Rui914, it's his branch
16:49 celeron55 or well i can
16:50 celeron55 or... what do we even do in a case like this
16:50 CraigyDavi celeron55, click restart build here: https://travis-ci.org/minete​st/minetest/builds/78128090
16:50 celeron55 this is obviously fine, who cares about travis
16:51 celeron55 oh yes, looks like i can restart it
16:55 CraigyDavi I think there's a way on GitHub to poke teams in GitHub. Maybe they should be a want-to-be-poked team and then I or someone else can poke them using @minetest/want-to-be-poked
16:55 celeron55 but then it becomes spammy when you poke everyone and the list each person sees grows too long
16:55 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
16:55 CraigyDavi Fair enough
16:56 celeron55 the point really is for someone to act as the middle manager who's only job is to know who needs to see what
16:57 CraigyDavi Ok, well #3128 needs two +1's so I'll poke nore, celeron55 to both review it and comment is something needs changing
16:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914
16:57 CraigyDavi Well 1, if you consider "Looks good" to be a +1
16:58 CraigyDavi Build passed on #3128. Needs reviewing.
16:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914
16:59 celeron55 we consider "Looks good" to be equal to "+1"
16:59 celeron55 maybe we need a glossary of words :D
16:59 CraigyDavi Good idea
17:01 CraigyDavi Ok well I propose we add a CONTRIBUTING.md with this on it. http://dev.minetest.net/Cat​egory:Rules_and_Guidelines seems too much and we need to condense it into one place. Let's be honest - how many contributors have actually read through that?
17:02 CraigyDavi Also, CONTRIBUTING.md shows up a message whenever a PR/issue is made which hopefully means that more people will read it
17:02 celeron55 aw, shit; my local network setup is still broken in some way where minetest singleplayer cannot connect to itself
17:02 CraigyDavi The "glossary" could be added to that.
17:02 celeron55 i can't test anything without separately running a server and blarg
17:02 nore CraigyDavi: looks good
17:02 nore (for 3128)
17:03 celeron55 nore: test it and merge it then; i can't be bothered to fight with this
17:03 CraigyDavi Ok, two +1's that is.
17:03 celeron55 or, actually the network setup is probably fine, but MT can't handle a setup like this with multiple local interfaces where only one is localhost
17:03 * CraigyDavi pokes nore to test and merge
17:03 * nore will do that as soon as he has some more time :)
17:04 celeron55 well in that case i'll just use some hack in MT's network code...
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17:05 est31 these points in here sound good : http://dev.minetest.net/Merging​_core_pull_requests_to_upstream
17:05 est31 but the problem with them is that a core contributor always has to look at it
17:05 est31 and if you intently look at a pr, you also find out all "lower" points like indentation problems
17:06 est31 and I say "looks good", if I havent tested it
17:06 est31 and +1 is either "its so trivial i dont have to test it", or "I have tested it"
17:07 T4im and _not_ "I like it"
17:07 T4im I've had a fix for a vanilla-only crashing bug hang in _game for 3 months during which it also run on a production server (it also fixed 2 other annoying bugs in the process), and 2 core devs did look at that... it was apparently eventually merged in during some cleanup run by a third person...
17:07 est31 that as well of course too
17:07 CraigyDavi Ok, I propose that these terms get added to a contributing.md so we don't have different definitions of what "looks good" means.
17:08 est31 we should clean up the wiki as well though
17:08 celeron55 nore: you should comment in the actual PR though
17:08 celeron55 nore: that's a rule, and for a good reason
17:09 nore oh, sorry :/
17:09 est31 and about #3128, I just dont think it needs much attention, because it seems to not fix anything, except perhaps break stuff
17:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914
17:10 CraigyDavi Yes, the .md file can be a brief overview which can actually be read through within a few minutes. dev.minetest can be more in depth.
17:10 nore est31: it's mainly a cleanup
17:10 est31 CraigyDavi, good idea
17:12 est31 okay will merge #3128 then
17:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914
17:12 est31 about #3123, do people have issues with it, can I merge it too?
17:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3123 -- Make example config more readable by beyondlimits
17:12 CraigyDavi Dare I say, I've never read through the contributing guidelines on the wiki even though I've contributed a bit to _game. I would, however, read through a short file when prompted from the GitHub editor.
17:13 CraigyDavi *GitHub issue editor
17:13 est31 yea, common things could be explained, like commits in present tense, or indentation with tabs
17:16 est31 and about pr merging rules, I'd like to see two core devs (submitter inclusive) for small to medium sized PRs, and three core devs (submitter inclusive) for large PRs
17:17 est31 the "two devs to agree on a pull" rule has been interpreted differently in the past
17:17 est31 either "submitter inclusive" or "submitter doesnt count"
17:17 celeron55 it has always meant "submitter inclusive" when i have written or said it
17:18 celeron55 but submitters sometimes want more reviews than just one in addition to themselves
17:19 celeron55 i mean, of course that only is relevant if the submitter is a core developer
17:20 est31 yea
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17:22 est31 and about things like #2997, I really am not sure if this is the way it should be done
17:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2997 -- Small improvements settings for Android by MoNTE48
17:23 est31 with tons of #ifdef __ANDROID__
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17:24 est31 about  #3109 there the core dev team doesn't have one opinion
17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3109 -- Add of liquid top tile to the mesh when waving shader is enabled by Rui914
17:24 est31 and I dont really know the code there
17:25 est31 #3108 needs testing
17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3108 -- Use CUSTOM_LOCALEDIR if specified by ShadowNinja
17:25 est31 #3104 can be looked at by other devs
17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3104 -- FindJson: use PATH_SUFFIXES jsoncpp to find incdir by ignatenkobrain
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17:25 est31 its a patch needed by fedora
17:27 CraigyDavi celeron55, can you +1 #3123 ?
17:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3123 -- Make example config more readable by beyondlimits
17:27 est31 https://apps.fedoraproject.org/pa​ckages/minetest/sources/patches/
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17:38 sfan5 celeron55: +1 from me
17:39 est31 sfan5, ??
17:40 celeron55 lol
17:48 Siva_AndroIRC joined #minetest-dev
17:51 est31 I've meant which pr have you +1ed?
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17:55 neoascetic celeron55 about your note on #3117
17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic
17:56 neoascetic There already is  _WIN32_WINNT 0x0501 defining and windows.h inclusion a few lines below
17:56 neoascetic I guess this stuff need to be refactored
17:57 neoascetic So my changes doesn't break anything. Am I right?
17:57 celeron55 well my point is, make sure all the windows defines and includes happen in the correct order, and happen to begin with
17:57 celeron55 you might not break OSX but by moving them around you might break some obscure windows set-up
17:58 est31 AFAI can remember the windows API, you define stuff like _WIN32_WINNT 0x0501 before including headers
17:58 est31 its like a variable, used by the included header
17:58 est31 to determine which API to use
17:58 neoascetic And it is already defined at line 31!
17:58 neoascetic So that define is dead code, as I guess
17:59 celeron55 then remove it from the other place
17:59 est31 yea
17:59 neoascetic Ok
17:59 est31 but still its best to have it tested on windows, from krock
18:00 est31 if it builds for krock there is no guarantee it works on all obscure windows setups, but we know it works at least on one :)
18:01 celeron55 travis already builds on windows
18:01 est31 no
18:01 celeron55 well not on MSVC
18:01 est31 travis does cross compile
18:01 neoascetic It's not haskell code anyway ;)
18:03 est31 https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/216
18:04 est31 travis does have native os X builders
18:04 est31 but AFAIK they are heavily limited
18:04 est31 and need manual approve by travis team
18:04 est31 approval*
18:07 est31 @ least it was that way last time I've heard about it
18:07 neoascetic Yes, if you are talking about multisystem builds
18:07 neoascetic Windows still unsupported afaik
18:08 neoascetic but I am always use osx via travis, so it is possible
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18:09 est31 I'd agree to travis PR builds of minetest
18:10 est31 neoascetic, can you try to make a PR?
18:11 neoascetic est31 what are you talking about exactly?
18:11 neoascetic celeron55 I've done with changes in the PR
18:12 est31 neoascetic, you want CI builds for mac, no?
18:12 neoascetic yeah, but this is not simple. I'll try
18:13 neoascetic And I am not sure if it is legal ;)
18:13 sfan5 est31: he asked 2 hours ago
18:13 sfan5 so well
18:13 sfan5 i thought it was still at least a little relevant
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18:14 sfan5 oh which pr
18:14 est31 yea
18:14 sfan5 est31: this
18:14 sfan5 <celer​on55> kahr​l_, sfan5, nor​e, nr​zkt, Tes​seract: comments?
18:15 est31 you mean this then: maybe CraigyDavi could be a contributor-focused member of the core team who would poke the people needed to review each new pull request? 8)
18:15 sfan5 yes
18:15 sfan5 or generally adding motivated people to the coredev team
18:16 est31 well, they need at least some knowledge of the engine's c++ code
18:20 est31 oh, rubenwardy and Calinou are core devs now?
18:21 rubenwardy no, we're website maintainers
18:21 est31 https://github.com/orgs/minetest/people
18:21 rubenwardy we have access to minetest.github.io but not to minetest
18:21 rubenwardy see teams
18:21 est31 https://github.com/orgs/mi​netest/teams/team-minetest
18:21 rubenwardy https://github.com/orgs/minetest/teams
18:21 rubenwardy yeah
18:21 rubenwardy inb4
18:21 est31 ok
18:22 est31 thats good
18:22 rubenwardy I don't have the C++ or core Minetest experience to be a core dev
18:23 est31 perhaps we can have a second "website maintainers" team?
18:24 rubenwardy you mean like https://github.com/orgs/minete​st/teams/minetest-website-team
18:25 est31 yup
18:25 est31 for website maintainers who arent core devs
18:26 rubenwardy ...
18:26 rubenwardy that's what it is
18:26 est31 well, the question is whether to include core devs or not
18:27 rubenwardy core devs can access all repos
18:27 rubenwardy people in the website team are limited to just the website
18:27 est31 okay
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18:43 Tesseract Pushing this is a minute (#2744 with some modifications): http://ix.io/kzG/diff
18:46 rubenwardy #2744
18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2744 -- Enable server when not building client by SmallJoker
18:47 est31 Tesseract, wait
18:47 est31 can it be made in a way so that you get notified every time?
18:47 est31 e.g. setting BUILD_SERVER without saving it?
18:48 Tesseract est31: Nop.e
18:48 rubenwardy MESSAGE?
18:49 est31 looking into the docs now
18:49 Tesseract est31: I don't think that's wanted anyway.
18:50 Tesseract rubenwardy: ?
18:50 rubenwardy nvm
18:50 est31 Tesseract, what's wanted is to build the server when not enabling it
18:50 est31 but it seems it doesnt save it
18:51 est31 hrmm no it does save it
18:51 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L42
18:52 est31 well either way, go on with the merge, fine for me
18:53 est31 the curl warning commit is ok as well
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19:13 paramat hi nore sfan5 game#651 is ready for whenever you have time to check it. a much-improved fire mod
19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/651 -- Fire: Move flame extinguishing to separate faster ABM by paramat
19:14 est31 @ all core devs, I can make you owner for the minetest weblate project, just create an account (you can also log in via github), and provide me with a https://hosted.weblate.org/user/$username url
19:14 est31 e.g. https://hosted.weblate.org/user/est31/
19:21 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
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19:30 est31 I'll write in the wiki how I merge translations.
19:32 paramat left #minetest-dev
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19:53 nrzkt since the irrlicht 1.8.2 upgrade on archlinux minetest doesn't work anymore
19:54 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/Translation#How_t​o_merge_translations_from_hosted_weblate
19:54 est31 ?
20:04 Tesseract nrzkt: SIGSEGV in std::less, or is this a different error I'm seeing?
20:05 nrzkt yes i saw same error Tesseract
20:06 nrzkt the problem is solved now, i recompiled MT... but it's not good for the distro
20:06 nrzkt distro need 0.4.13 compiled with irrlicht 1.8.2 to work
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20:32 Tesseract nrzkt: How'd you fix it?
20:34 nrzkt the client only works with 1.8.1
20:34 nrzkt if i upgrade to 1.8.2 crash
20:34 nrzkt and the server works with both but needs to be recompiled as it seems
20:34 nrzkt http://seblu.net/a/arm/week/community/os/x86_64/
20:34 nrzkt you can find it here, on the rollback machine for arch
20:35 nrzkt http://seblu.net/a/arm/week/community/os/​x86_64/irrlicht-1.8.1-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
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20:41 Tesseract But we're going to have to actually fix this eventually.
20:41 Tesseract It looks like an error in my libc++ to me though.
20:44 nrzkt yes, i have the same problem
20:44 nrzkt but rollbacking glibc doesn't fix the problem, only rollbacking irrlicht
20:45 nrzkt if you look at gdb backtrace you will see some std::maps with stupid content, i noticed that i see a Python Value Error exception in it...
20:45 nrzkt read memory is not process memory
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22:40 paramat any comments for changing to multiple-flower textures? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/661#issuecomment-136646600 this would allow us to make flowers 'waving = 1'
23:11 VanessaE I kinda like those.
23:14 VanessaE the colors of the flower tops are a little too muted though
23:33 est31 joined #minetest-dev
23:40 est31 gonna push #3131 and https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​94961b3364f76d5861913af321e9be6200d080b3
23:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3131 -- Add two missing directories to doxygen by nerzhul
23:40 est31 in 20 mins
23:40 est31 (also deleting the Doxyfix branch nrz created in accident)

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