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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 segfault22 I am not interested in lua mapgen at this time, and I already know somewhat about them - I haven't ever used them though, but I can see what they do and the new voxelmanip stuff
00:01 segfault22 And besides, ore generation is only part of mapgen, it occurs after the terrain generation
00:04 est31 ~tell rubenwardy could you edit the website to point out that only the play store version of minetest and the apk downloads haven't been updated yet? F-droid is updated.
00:04 ShadowBot est31: O.K.
00:06 segfault22 irc bots are an amazing invention
00:07 est31 hmmmm, what again are the points against using html for GUI? Its the most flexible, yet another part we don't have to maintain, and we don't have to reinvent the wheel.
00:08 est31 html is only as laggy as the content makes it.
00:09 segfault22 I read somewhere about buffer overflows and arbitrary command injection,... but that's more like javascript
00:10 est31 segfault22, neither html nor javascript were designed with allowing that in mind
00:11 est31 and every piece of code has security vulnerabilities
00:11 est31 @ least most
00:14 est31 hmmmm, I just dont want to have some self invented technology again thats super hard to handle, and as inflexible as the current one. html has proven itself, and there is lots of material on how to learn it online.
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00:18 paramat segfault22, what octaves and persistence are you using for sheet ore?
00:18 paramat i'm just now starting to understand sheet ore
00:24 paramat try {offset=0, scale=0, spread={x=100, y=100, z=100}, seed=23, octaves=3, persist=0.5} then threshold should be careefully tuned between 0.5 (one 3rd of world area) and 1.0 (very rare)
00:25 paramat once you have a rarity you like, the entire pattern can be enlarged in size by increasing all 3 values of 'spread={x=100, y=100, z=100}'
00:26 paramat 'spread' will be very roughly the average distance between ore pockets (depending on the rarity)
00:29 paramat then finally increase 'scale' to create a wavelike shape to the ore sheet
00:33 paramat if noise has been changed in a way that messes up sheet ore try {offset=0, scale=1, ...} that might help
00:41 segfault22 ?
00:41 segfault22 oh it's spread, not scale, that has the x/y/z parameters
00:42 segfault22 Thank you
00:43 segfault22 oh wow not its everywhere
00:46 segfault22 paramat, its still causing very massive sheets... as if the threshold just doesnt matter
00:50 segfault22 http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/​w597/SegFault22/screenshot_20150826_​204807_zpsgibneapg.png?t=1440550197
00:51 segfault22 I changed the clust_size to 1
00:52 segfault22 paramat
00:53 segfault22 I figured out how to fix the ore generation problems :D
00:54 segfault22 just use blob generation until they fix sheet generation back to what it was before the changes were made to it
00:55 VanessaE paramat: did something change recently (or not so recently) about how perlin noise is "oriented" relative to the terrain?  specifically, jungles appear to have moved at some point, but moved in such a way that biome_lib followed it like nothing had changed.
00:57 segfault22 Whatever they did has totally borkened my sheet ore generation, so now I get to test blob generation for the first time,... considering how nobody else really makes use of it, this will probably be a "first"
01:00 VanessaE paramat: I mean this:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-08-26_20-56-55.png  I regenerated this map yesterday to test some recent changes in biome_lib and moretrees; in blue, jungles I don't recall seeing before with this map seed.  In red, an area that used to almost all-jungle.
01:00 VanessaE (yet the underlying terrain appears unchanged from what I'm used to with this seed)
01:01 segfault22 Cool
01:04 paramat back, was cooking
01:06 segfault22 is num_ores used by blob generation or is it just scarcity, clust_size, and the other parameters except for num_ores
01:07 paramat so i'll test sheet ore to see if something broke
01:07 segfault22 is y_min/y_max the same as height_min/height_max
01:08 paramat a while back there were changes to how offset and scale transformed noise values
01:08 VanessaE ok.  just making sure I was seeing what's intended.
01:08 paramat .. which may cause a bug because of this "The noise is not transformed by `offset` or `scale` when comparing
01:08 paramat against the noise threshold, but scale is used to determine relative height."
01:09 VanessaE I delete and re-generate this map periodically, last time was a couple weeks ago, at most.
01:09 paramat oh that wasn't in response to your question, i'll now read that
01:10 VanessaE oh ok
01:10 paramat segfault22 you're using 'scale = 1'? it might help
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01:11 segfault22 yes
01:11 paramat ok
01:12 paramat VanessaE, if you use mgv6 with the new biome system (snowbiomes) jungles are indeed moved
01:12 VanessaE THAT would explain it
01:12 segfault22 I am using mgv7 is boss
01:12 segfault22 wait
01:12 VanessaE paramat: in fact, I did turn snow biomes last time I re-generated.  Ok.
01:12 segfault22 this keybpard is suck
01:12 * segfault22 goes
01:13 paramat see https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=188275#p188275
01:13 paramat 'is suck'
01:13 VanessaE paramat: got it.  Guess I missed that post before.
01:15 segfault22 okay blob generation is a lie,... it does nothing
01:15 paramat before, mgv6 and the snow mod never made sense concerning biome(heat) and humidity noises. now they do but will be out of sync with biome_lib
01:15 paramat .. and the snow mod
01:15 VanessaE oh that's no worry.
01:16 VanessaE I'll eventually change biome_lib to use the same params as the core mapgen, now that the Snow mod is obsolete.
01:16 paramat blobs are real, see usage in default/mapgen.lua, needs certain parameters to work
01:17 segfault22 Okay
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01:18 paramat and yes ymin/ymax recently replaced heightmin/heightmax
01:21 paramat you can make smaller sheet ore pockets by increasing persist towards 1, and increasing threshold towards 1 also
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01:23 segfault22 blob ores still do not generate even when I use parameters exactly matching what is used to make sand blobs underground
01:23 segfault22 even when I copy the minetest.register_ore() function call that is used, changing only the "ore" and "wherein"
01:24 paramat odd
01:25 segfault22 I am tired of people changing core stuff when they don't even play the game enough to understand what they are doing, then leave and never come back
01:25 segfault22 more worse is how these pull requests get accepted without sufficient testing
01:26 segfault22 No wonder there are already so many forks (like freeminer)
01:26 segfault22 Can someone else test blob generation just to be sure that its not just my installation
01:27 paramat well sheet ore was very rarely used, and not used in mapgen, so easily broken
01:27 paramat yeah i tested blob ore when i added it to mapgen
01:27 paramat should work
01:28 paramat to test it use a core mapgen and look for clay in sand and blobs in caves
01:29 segfault22 nevermind lol I made a new world and forgot to "configure it so that it knows which mods to use"....
01:29 VanessaE technic uses the sheet ore type for its granit and marble, I think
01:29 VanessaE granite*
01:29 segfault22 that feature (you have to configure the world for it to use installed mods) is little more than a farce by the way
01:30 * segfault22 is now AFK
01:31 paramat seems fine to me
01:32 VanessaE segfault22: solution: put your mods in <minetest>/worlds/<your world>/worldmods/
01:32 VanessaE then they'r enabled by default.
01:32 VanessaE they're*
01:33 * segfault22 is back
01:33 paramat btw freeminer is much lower quality =)
01:33 segfault22 All mods in the main /mods/ folder should be enabled by default,... the configuration gui system is still a good thing, but I do not believe that it was implemented properly
01:34 VanessaE I agree that they should be enabled by default, but well... seems others disagree :P
01:35 segfault22 Also, I don't want to have to copy all of the mods into the new world folder after it is created,... I often have to delete testing worlds because I completely ruin them or get lost
01:35 VanessaE you can just delete the world's map file.
01:35 VanessaE (map.sqlite or the map.db dir if you're using levbeldb)
01:35 VanessaE (leveldb*)
01:36 VanessaE that's what I do, anyway :P
01:38 segfault22 cool
01:41 VanessaE paramat: btw, was successfully rebased against minetest_game (up to the "add missing spaces" commit) last night, so now I get to yell at you if anything goes wrong with the base code ;)
01:41 VanessaE er, dreambuilder was*
01:41 VanessaE (so far, no probs)
01:43 segfault22 Okay I got blob generation to work right
01:48 segfault22 Now I can continue adding more metals and all of the stuff, their ore generation, crafting recipes, etc... then it will be ready for public release :D
01:48 segfault22 I am going to commit these changes to the github repository before I continue
01:53 segfault22 I love github :D
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02:04 segfault22 aluminium cannot be processed in the furnace like other metals, because it oxidizes at high temperatures in the presence of oxygen... how should I implement aluminium processing?
02:06 VanessaE require technic alloy furnace, with a custom "nitrogen" (or some other gas) as the secondary ingredient.
02:06 VanessaE also that's not a #minetest-dev question..
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02:07 segfault22 It relates to what kind of machine I'm going to have to make, because I would rather not depend on technic until they make a proper energy-network
02:09 segfault22 I will probably end up making my own energy-network anyways, but that is far in the future. Either it will have to be a smelter that uses nitrogen or some other inert gas for the internal atmosphere, or powder metallurgy
02:11 segfault22 it will cost 10 nuggets worth of powder (10 tiny piles of dust), goes into the sinterer -> returns 1 aluminium ingot and 1 tiny pile of aluminium oxide, which can be electrolyzed into aluminium and releasing free oxygen in the process
02:12 segfault22 Now, to make the sinterer.... that is either going to be a monstrous task, or a container of sorts that is simply thrown in the furnace but seals off the internal chamber from the outside to prevent oxidation
02:15 segfault22 does anyone have any tips for programming a sintering furnace which requires fluid gas to be filled into the internal tank, using a small amount for each operation
02:16 segfault22 I should probably create the fluid system first, which will also make the energy-network a lot simpler (metadata-based internal storage tank FOR TEH WIN)
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02:20 segfault22 welcome backj
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06:48 nrzkt ~tell est: building android release now
06:48 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K.
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06:52 nrzkt ~tell est31: building android release now
06:52 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K.
07:02 nrzkt ~tell est31: Android release build crashes directly on my phone. I need to go to work. It's a fresh git tree on 6a1047d8c116f793890b63427d53f04ceca95d54. Cannot release.
07:02 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K.
07:04 nrzkt ~tell est31: if you want to look at the apk: http://www.unix-experience.fr/wp-cont​ent/uploads/2015/Minetest-release.apk
07:04 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K.
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12:28 Wayward_One ~tell est31 I just tested that apk, it doesn't crash for me but it doesn't seem to have minetest_game in the games folder, preventing world creation
12:28 ShadowBot Wayward_One: O.K.
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13:11 nrzkt Wayward_One, thanks for reporting that
13:12 nrzkt maybe it's due to a ARMv7 EBI change and my phone only support v6 ?
13:12 nrzkt i will add minetest_game this evening and re-package it
13:12 nrzkt on my PC building the release take only 8 minutes from scratch
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14:02 Wayward_One nrzkt: no problem :) I thought you left, otherwise I would have reported it directly to you lol
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14:50 Zeitgeist_ is -DCUSTOM_CUSTOM_EXAMPLE_CONF_DIR the correct way to change the install location of the example minetest.conf?
14:51 Zeitgeist_ it seems to fail for me
14:52 Zeitgeist_ eg the file ends up in the wrong directory
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15:18 Zeitgeist_ i am stupid
15:19 Zeitgeist_ its -DCUSTOM_EXAMPLE_CONF_DIR /facepalm
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17:32 nrzkt ~tell est31: & also Wayward_One: uploaded another apk release with minetest_game included here: http://www.unix-experience.fr/wp-cont​ent/uploads/2015/Minetest-release.apk
17:32 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K.
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18:55 neoascetic hi all. could #3117 be merged asap?
18:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic
18:57 neoascetic After I fix it of course :)
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19:45 paramat nore sfan5 my proposed changes to fire mod are here game#651 still needs some tuning though
19:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/651 -- Fire: Move flame extinguishing to separate faster ABM (WIP) by paramat
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20:07 paramat when creating a normalmap, is pixel colour and alpha important, or is it just pixel 'value' that determines bump height?
20:13 paramat i zoomed a normalmap and it seemed complex, users need to know how to create one fairly easily
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20:41 Sketch2 red blue values
20:42 Sketch2 the average user won't know how
20:42 Sketch2 there's software that fakes it
20:42 paramat aha
20:42 Sketch2 or you can use 3dsoftware to generate them
20:43 Sketch2 but that way you'd need to build models that have the extra data
20:43 paramat why 2 values if bump height seems to need only 1?
20:44 Sketch2 it's trying to cover multiple axis
20:44 Sketch2 you are essentially squashing 3d data onto a 2d surface
20:45 paramat okay thanks
20:46 Sketch2 it's like the red channel is the X and the blue is the Y axis
20:46 Sketch2 I could be wrong on the specifics, but it's something like that
20:47 Sketch2 and how bright it is relates to the Z axis
20:47 paramat ah gimp has methods to do this if you do a websearch
20:48 Sketch2 it's pseudo, but yeah it exists
21:17 paramat okay this explains why our normalmaps often have bump height derived from colour variations of a texture, brick nodes need flat brick faces, so i think i'll create a dedicated 16x16 brick relief texture to derive from
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