Time Nick Message 00:01 paramat merge complete 00:02 RealBadAngel #3079 should be merged for it too 00:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3079 -- Remove use of engine sent texture tiling flags - theyre no longer needed by RealBadAngel 00:04 paramat yeah 00:12 paramat RealBadAngel, shall i go ahead and merge 642 and we can change tree tops later? or are you now updating that PR? 00:12 VanessaE NOOOOOO 00:12 VanessaE 642 is a no-go 00:13 paramat because of issues stated earlier? 00:13 VanessaE yes 00:13 VanessaE it will break nearly every existing texture pack and some mods as well 00:13 RealBadAngel it doesnt break anything 00:14 RealBadAngel texture packs makers shall update their TPs in order to use engine features 00:15 paramat i don't completely understand the arguments. texture packs without normals means just don't use normalmaps, seems reasonable 00:15 VanessaE no 00:15 VanessaE texture packs without normals means they'll end up using these new default normals 00:16 VanessaE (if the relevant shaders are enabled) 00:16 RealBadAngel VanessaE, your request means effectively disable parallax mapping 00:16 VanessaE where did I say that? 00:16 RealBadAngel it does mean that 00:16 VanessaE supply normals but don't load them if the matching diffuse/color texture is in a different folder 00:16 VanessaE what's so hard about that? 00:17 VanessaE same folder? load them, by all means. 00:17 RealBadAngel ability to replace one map with the other 00:17 RealBadAngel you want to break another feature 00:17 VanessaE better to force those few people to supply copies of the matching texture than to force every texture author to supply 300+ blank normalmap images 00:18 paramat we already have some normalmaps so a few more in 642 doesn't change anything, whether the implementation is right or wrong 00:19 VanessaE then fix the implementation before 0.4.13 goes out 00:20 RealBadAngel fix the feature by disabling it? 00:20 VanessaE ... 00:20 RealBadAngel every tp out there is incomplete 00:21 RealBadAngel i should rather remove autogen from core - because its absurdly costly - than implement your request 00:24 paramat well normalmaps are an optional shader thing, many/most texture pack authors won't be adding normalmaps, using such a pack means players should not enable bumpmaps 00:25 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8714 00:25 paramat certainly the implementation could possibly be improved, we need other's input on this 00:25 RealBadAngel VanessaE, your proposal would mean above impossible 00:26 VanessaE RealBadAngel: so? special handling of certain corner cases is not a bad thing. 00:26 VanessaE that ^^^ is one such place. 00:28 paramat perhaps *ideally* if a texture pack does not supply a matching normalmap for a texture, the normalmap should be set to flat 00:28 VanessaE that' 00:28 VanessaE that's what I was proposing 00:28 VanessaE hence the "same folder" requirement 00:28 paramat yeah agreed 00:29 RealBadAngel while i can agree to use flat normal map i cant for "same folder" 00:31 est31 ok #3081 is out 00:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3081 -- Fix inventory replace bug by est31 00:32 paramat sorting this out may have to wait for 0.4.14, how it is at the moment may not be perfect but also not broken 00:32 paramat (talking about normalmaps) 00:34 paramat i will merge 642 later since it is just extra normalmaps 00:40 paramat back later 00:42 Wayward_One est31: have you seen my latest comment yet? 00:44 est31 Wayward_One, yes 00:44 est31 I can however not reproduce the bug, with that apk 00:44 Wayward_One Hmm 00:44 RealBadAngel ive googled a bit for that 00:45 est31 seems we'll have to hotfix it. 00:45 RealBadAngel looks like its something about texturing 00:46 RealBadAngel http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43774 00:47 RealBadAngel this seems to be related 00:47 est31 VanessaE, can you check the new error message in 3058? 00:57 VanessaE I like the message, but shouldn't you store that in a variable somewhere and print *that* (plus "technical code" bit for the first call)? 00:58 est31 ? 00:59 est31 "that" 00:59 VanessaE you print the exact same message twice, with some add-on text in the first case. 00:59 VanessaE or rather, you supply it twice. 01:00 est31 Perhaps one can argue that as its two different sentences, all languages can separate 01:00 VanessaE shouldn't you do something like msg=""Oooops! Seems that mod list download failed. It might be that this is a problem with the website, caused by the descision to take the mod store offline, or a bug in the game." and then fgettext_ne(msg.." The technical code is: ")..result or fgettext_ne(msg) ? 01:00 VanessaE something like that anyways 01:01 VanessaE ok, fair enough 01:02 est31 refresh 01:02 est31 better now? 01:02 VanessaE right, exactly that 01:03 VanessaE I'm good with that, then 01:03 est31 slightly adjusted the messag 01:03 est31 e 01:04 est31 now waiting for hmmmm to approve 3081 and 3058 01:04 VanessaE better. 01:04 est31 (or any other devs) 01:05 VanessaE he's still taking a shit :) 01:05 est31 long shit 01:05 VanessaE lincoln log ;) 01:35 hmmmm 3081 looks good to me 01:43 est31 seems I'll have to re-apply https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/60f31ad52348c53209701d0112f9f809018f7188 01:43 est31 @ least Wayward_One can reproduce a bug with the method 01:45 hmmmm okay then 01:45 hmmmm that for the blank menu screen bug? 01:46 est31 yes 01:47 hmmmm as for the error message text on 3058 01:47 hmmmm that's "friendly" but it doesn't exactly comfort users 01:47 hmmmm "oops, something went wrong and it could be any number of things" 01:47 hmmmm how about something like 01:48 hmmmm "Oops, something went wrong with getting the mod database list!" 01:48 hmmmm "Try again at some later time." 01:48 hmmmm "If the problem persists, it may be a bug. 01:48 est31 no 01:48 est31 operational issues may be a bug too 01:49 hmmmm do you want error reports up the wazoo 01:49 est31 but "try again at some later time sounds good" 01:49 hmmmm cause this is how you get them 01:49 hmmmm est any modstore PRs are your responsibility from now on 01:49 hmmmm problem reports 01:49 est31 no thank you 01:49 est31 the easiest way to not get error reports is by just not having that button 01:50 est31 the "mod store" button 01:50 VanessaE I tend to agree 01:50 hmmmm well I don't get it 01:50 hmmmm did celeron just decide to get rid of MMDB? 01:50 VanessaE didn't it get lost when xyz gave up hosting the forum? 01:50 est31 VanessaE, yes 01:51 est31 (AFAIK) 01:51 VanessaE plus let's face it, iqual was....rather stubborn about how mods are added and approved. 01:51 est31 iqual? 01:51 VanessaE iqualfragilew 01:51 VanessaE -w 01:51 hmmmm okay 01:51 VanessaE the guy who managed the actual website used for submitting mods to the store 01:51 hmmmm soooooo 01:52 est31 ok 01:52 hmmmm what do you two want to do 01:52 hmmmm are we not confident in the MMDB coming back 01:52 VanessaE cornernote is working on something that should be usable to replace it 01:52 est31 the future of the mmdb is something like that bower thingy 01:52 VanessaE but it's not ready right now 01:52 est31 ea 01:52 est31 yea* 01:52 hmmmm well 01:53 hmmmm disable the button if you want 01:53 hmmmm just remember the entire version is getting shipped like this 01:53 est31 but enabling untrusted mods needs security to be set on by default 01:57 est31 kahrl, sfan5, other devs, your opinions on removing mmdb support entirely? Should mmdb ever come back? VanessaE and me say no. 02:02 est31 Wayward_One, can you try a commit for me? 02:02 Wayward_One Sure 02:03 est31 this one : https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/6452db11706a337124d6c485b4a66478bc8b42e9 02:03 Wayward_One Ok 02:09 paramat RealBadAngel i'll merge 642 in a moment 02:22 paramat now merging game 642 02:26 paramat merge complete 02:27 est31 and, I almost forgot, today's an important date 02:27 est31 the website competition ends 02:27 est31 The astounding number of 0 (zero) entries were officially submitted 02:28 est31 I only have two half-official entries 02:28 est31 one from Calinou 02:29 est31 one from srifqi 02:30 est31 they both lack the "post in topic" requirement 02:30 est31 but its a very formal one, so I guess both can count as submissions 02:39 paramat apparently 3079 can go in now that game 641 is in 02:40 VanessaE #3079 02:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3079 -- Remove use of engine sent texture tiling flags - theyre no longer needed by RealBadAngel 02:41 est31 game#641 02:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/641 -- Add tiling info for grass nodes by RealBadAngel 02:41 est31 why does 3079 have a requirement for 641 to be merged? 02:42 paramat perhaps not, i don't understand the issues 02:44 est31 3079 is unrelated from how I see it 02:44 est31 they both cover tiling flags though 02:44 paramat i misunderstood RBA then 02:45 VanessaE the way I read it, 3079 removes obsoleted code. 02:46 VanessaE and 641 adds in node-def-based flags to replace it. 02:46 est31 also, it seems that 3079 is a speedup 02:46 est31 however, I wonder whether we should merge it so short before a release 02:47 VanessaE may as well 02:47 VanessaE if release has to be put off a day or two as a result, that's not very harmful; it can always be reverted if push comes to shove. 02:49 est31 no 02:49 est31 reverting release commits is no good 05:15 est31 ok plan for today: lets determine what website to chose from the two, then let make celeron55 do the switch, and wait for paramat/other game devs to label the 0.4.13 release 05:15 est31 also, determine whether to ship with mmdb, or whether to fix it, or what the error messages should contain, if not fixing mmdb 05:20 hmmmm i really would prefer for mmdb to stay in minetest 05:27 est31 The current mmdb implementation is very bad. 05:27 est31 e.g. its fullscreen for some reason 05:28 est31 which means the tab buttons are right where the minetest version text is 05:28 est31 also, the mods in mmdb don't reflect the rich set of mods minetest has 05:29 est31 also, we should have a subgame store as well 05:29 est31 chosing mods is hard 05:29 est31 perhaps however the subgames should even be shipped with minetest 05:29 est31 but then people who count every single bit wont like it 05:32 sfan5 est31: mmdb needs a lot of work, but i'm not for removing support entirely 05:34 est31 I don't want to make a release with mmdb not being online. 05:34 est31 at the end of the day celeron55 says he doesnt want to host mmdb, and our users have a non functional button 05:35 est31 hmmmm even fears that we would drown in error messages. 05:36 hmmmm celeron actually said that he's not interested in continuing MMDB? 05:36 hmmmm ugh 05:36 hmmmm dammit 05:37 est31 dunno 05:39 est31 thats part of the things i want to find out 05:39 est31 and get cleared 05:39 nanepiwo who hosts the skins database? 05:39 sfan5 which skin database? 05:40 est31 whats the url again? 05:40 nanepiwo minetest.fensta.bplaced.net 05:41 est31 seems to be an user named "addi". 05:41 est31 you can contact them in the forum thread I guess: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4497 05:42 nanepiwo I see 05:47 hmmmm oh speaking of skins 05:47 hmmmm est31, you know vanessae's skin compatibility problem? 05:47 hmmmm is that a blocker or not? 05:48 est31 yes I know of that backface problem, if it is what you mean 05:48 est31 I dont think it is a blocker 05:48 hmmmm yeah 05:48 hmmmm ok fair enough 05:49 hmmmm i don't either tbh 05:49 hmmmm if you get everything in, we can release tomorrow or whatever 05:50 est31 tomorrow for you 05:50 est31 I hope to release when paramat gets around next, and we have cleared the mmdb issue 05:51 est31 before you go offline: what would be an acceptable message for my fix PR? 05:52 est31 I remember you critizised that the message listed the number of possible reasons 05:53 est31 my motivation to add that was so that I both can say "it can be because we had disabled mmdb" 05:53 est31 and not say "forget mmmdb, we have turned it off" 05:53 hmmmm well 05:54 hmmmm so the main problem we're trying to solve is to let users know that the MMDB does exist, it might not be working *right now*, but try again sometime in the future before filing a bug report about it 05:54 hmmmm so it needs to be reassuring 05:54 hmmmm as well as provide data about real errors if they are real 05:55 est31 yes 05:55 hmmmm I honestly don't know 05:55 hmmmm I agree with your stance against basing the error message off of HTTP error codes now 05:55 hmmmm it could be a legitimate bug 05:56 hmmmm if the user gets a 404 how do we know that's caused by the webserver or a bug in minetest requesting the wrong page 05:56 hmmmm etc. 05:56 hmmmm dare we ask the users to troubleshoot on their own a little bit first before submitting an error report? 05:58 hmmmm "Oops! Unfortunately we are having trouble retrieving the MMDB." 05:58 hmmmm 05:58 hmmmm " - The MMDB could be down temporarily. Try again soon." 05:59 hmmmm " - If you have not been able to load the MMDB after several attempts, check your computer's network connection." 05:59 hmmmm ?? 05:59 hmmmm or something like that 06:01 kahrl how about inserting some comment like into the 404 page for .../mmdb/* 06:01 kahrl which is checked by the client and changes the error message 06:02 est31 thats a good proposal 06:03 hmmmm yeah but we don't control the website 06:04 kahrl we don't? 06:06 est31 celeron55 does 06:06 kahrl yeah, he's been around quite often lately 06:07 est31 we will have to not use mmdb if we want to run a moderation less mod repository 06:07 est31 otherwise people with old clients could install malware with a single click 06:08 kahrl good point 06:09 est31 ok made the official announcement in the forum https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12843&p=187611#p187611 06:14 est31 vote your favourite, you have 7 days 06:49 celeron55 i really can't get the point of srifqi's entry, but Calinou's is surprisingly competent; it's better than the current one in some ways and not awful in others 06:55 celeron55 hmmmm: i haven't said i am not interested in continuing mmdb; not immediately setting it up was a result of many things; but now that it has been away for some time and we are starting to see stuff like minetest-bower, i feel like trying to get mmdb going again is not worth it in the long term 06:55 hmmmm alright, fine 06:56 celeron55 or may not be; the way this is implemented needs to be reconsidered 06:56 hmmmm remove the button 06:57 hmmmm @ est31 06:59 rubenwardy mmdb has been offline for 8 months, i don't think it's coming back 07:00 celeron55 if it is decided that mmdb is indeed the best choice, i can set it up again, seeing that its authentication has been separated from the forum database and some of the other issues fixed 07:01 rubenwardy hmmmm: I'd like to see hotbar selection changes in client side lua. Also CAO control 07:02 hmmmm you'll be able to do some rudimentary CAO manipulations like rotation changes and slight movements 07:02 rubenwardy celeron55 in it's current state mmdb is not practical. It takes too long to add a mod, it takes to long to release a new version 07:04 rubenwardy1 I think that client side lua should focus on client side prediction for mods and visual effects. 07:04 Guest18502 It should be possible to make client only visual objects (like SceneNodes) 07:04 Guest18502 ffs 07:05 RealBadAngel with #3079 tiling flags are still here, buts its enough to set material flags in the engine, no point doing the same using other method in shaders 07:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3079 -- Remove use of engine sent texture tiling flags - theyre no longer needed by RealBadAngel 07:06 RealBadAngel but for the flags to be working, they have to be used in tiles that need that, like dirt with grass - 641 does that 07:07 Guest18502 Minetest is currently too limited as a game engine, really you can only make simple Minecraft clones. I want to see more diverse gameplay. 07:09 celeron55 rubenwardy_: stuff like custom player controls should be possible at some point too 07:09 celeron55 and custom player physics 07:10 celeron55 i mean, i'm not requesting features; just saying this is important in order to support any other things than walking on the ground 07:10 hmmmm my ultimate goal is to make minetest into an FPS 07:12 hmmmm not different games, different genres altogether 07:12 hmmmm we can emulate 2d games by restricting camera angles 07:12 celeron55 emulating 2d games is dumb in my opinion; there's way too much overhead in all the 3d handling for that 07:13 hmmmm we can do RTSes by restricting the camera angle and Y position of the local player 07:13 celeron55 (but i guess it should be possible if somebody insists) 07:13 hmmmm and units can be selected by punching them :p 07:14 celeron55 well, ideally "punching" shouldn't really be a non-removable engine thing 07:15 celeron55 however, by going that way, i feel like minetest will become a worse version of Buildat 8) 07:15 hmmmm maybe 07:16 celeron55 but buildat has way too many design issues as where i left it that using it doesn't make sense either 07:16 celeron55 i guess continuing minetest's iterative history will work out fine enough 07:16 hmmmm right 07:16 hmmmm but the point of the iterations are to work toward a goal 07:16 hmmmm my own personal goal is to have the ultimate flexibility where we can actully tell people it's a game engine with a straight face 07:17 hmmmm and not look stupid 07:17 celeron55 i think that's the only way minetest can stay relevant and interesting in the long term 07:18 celeron55 there's going to be a group of people that still care about punching trees, but it will get very small and be limited to practically only children (because punching trees will always be a new thing to new people) 07:19 celeron55 and big corporations are better at pushing things to children than us 07:19 celeron55 and children are bad contributors anyway, and MT can't live without contributors 07:22 celeron55 hmmmm: when are you planning to have an initial version of client-side lua? 07:22 hmmmm whenever it gets done 07:22 celeron55 because i'm pretty sure i'm going to end up contributing to it once it exists, but i might not necessarily be starting it 07:23 celeron55 or, well, i could start it, if nobody else is planning to 07:23 hmmmm i already started it 07:24 hmmmm i don't know if you read this anywhere yet but it's basically a separate thread that does nothing but runs lua 07:24 hmmmm events are asynchronously added to the event queue and then callbacks are run in lua 07:26 celeron55 sounds interesting 07:26 hmmmm the way lua works on the server side is that callbacks can be used to filter events before they actually happen 07:27 hmmmm this is really nice and clean design but it's dog slow 07:27 hmmmm it's unacceptable for a real time application like a game rendering thread 07:27 hmmmm so you'll get an event such as CSEVT_PLAYER_PUNCH for example which has the pos 07:28 hmmmm and then in that event callback you'll create a particle spawner or whatever that spews out a bunch of sparks 07:29 hmmmm or if you get a CSEVT_INVENTORY_MOVE you'll have to be aware of the fact that this event is telling you that "something happened" rather than "this specific thing is happening" 07:29 hmmmm which means checking the current state of the inventory before modifying it 07:29 hmmmm I'm just using these as dumb contrieved examples 07:32 hmmmm while this does seem like a big problem i don't think it will be too bad in practice because the game rendering loop takes far longer than the lua loop should 07:33 hmmmm i don't doubt you're going to have 33ms screen updates and for the lua callbacks to finish way before then 07:34 hmmmm even if a couple frames do pass by, it's not likely that the object or node or whatever you intend to reference is going to magically disappear within that timeframe 07:34 hmmmm and if it does disappear, then so what 07:34 hmmmm just abort the operation 07:34 celeron55 well, just keep in mind that if you do notice that it will become somehow wonky, this is the time to redesign it 07:35 hmmmm nothing can be wonkier than the way modding currently is 07:35 hmmmm sorry 07:35 celeron55 sorry? 07:35 hmmmm I don't mean to offend you 07:36 celeron55 "sorry" offended me, but nothing prior to that didn't; why do you assume i take this as a personal thing? 07:36 hmmmm because the entire premise behind the way current scripting works is a bad idea 07:36 hmmmm you're relying on incompetent 15 year olds to write code that finishes execution within a finite amount of time 07:36 hmmmm or else the entire server gets hung up 07:37 celeron55 that's not a reason why i would take any comments about the current modding system personally 07:37 celeron55 the current system sucks; but also many other systems will suck 07:37 hmmmm i feel as if this is the least bad 07:38 celeron55 let's consider for example this: how are you planning to allow implementing custom player physics in it? 07:39 hmmmm i haven't considered physics at all 07:39 celeron55 stuff like that probably has to go to be actually invoked from the physics thread (which is the main thread currently) 07:40 celeron55 stuff in for example there can probably be completely separate from the other client-side scripts, or if they need to communicate, they could use the event system 07:41 celeron55 or maybe the global settings or something like that; just anything else than direct calls 07:41 hmmmm physics would have to handle the way a CAO moves 07:41 celeron55 same thing for custom player controls; but that might be practically the same thing as physics 07:42 hmmmm the moment that CAO hits something, that generates an event that that client game scripting can handle 07:42 hmmmm I don't know, maybe the physics thread like you were suggesting can do soft real-time calculations 07:42 hmmmm every so many MS 07:43 hmmmm how about 50 ms 07:43 celeron55 what i'm saying is that there will need to be client-side scripts that have to be called immediately, getting a result from them immedidately; and they will probably have to be a separate thing assuming the bulk of the scripts are run (probably appropriately) in a separate threaad 07:43 hmmmm every 50 ms, the physics script executes for some type of CAO 07:43 celeron55 -a 07:44 hmmmm well what the client side scripts are mostly intended for are things like 07:44 hmmmm player punches something 07:44 hmmmm makes a sound event 07:44 hmmmm err, makes a punch event, which the script thread then starts a sound for 07:44 hmmmm or maybe spawns some particles there 07:44 hmmmm maybe adds a dynamic light 07:44 hmmmm etc. 07:45 celeron55 things like what i am describing will be kind of like the next step up from configuration; like configuration settings that are simple functions instead of static values 07:45 celeron55 maybe they don't have access to anything else than a very strict environment where they can't cause much delays or trouble; but custom player controls and physics probably need those 07:46 hmmmm physics is going to be difficult no matter what model we use 07:47 celeron55 well, frankly, not really 07:47 hmmmm the primary issue is that we're relying on an un-preemptable script that's already dog slow to work in a real time manner 07:47 celeron55 not much more difficult than anything else in this 07:48 celeron55 that script isn't doing any of the world generation or pathfinding that generally kills the minetest server timing 07:48 hmmmm it's okay if the lua scripts process subtracting 10 hp from a player 300 ms later 07:48 hmmmm but it's not okay if 300ms pass when the CAO was supposed to hit the wall and bounce back 07:49 celeron55 in any case, this is a thing that has to be implemnted and you can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist 07:49 hmmmm it would be so much more palatable if this weren't in lua and we could rely on the physics algorithms to be somewhat fast 07:49 celeron55 we can provide a library of fast algorithms to lua 07:49 hmmmm sure, no problem 07:50 hmmmm the problem is the skill of the lua modders 07:50 celeron55 when something becomes popular, it will be optimized 07:50 hmmmm no matter how fast your actual functions that do the real work are, they're going to do something stupid and degrade the entire user experience 07:50 celeron55 those physics things will be rather simple and an easy target to optimization 07:50 celeron55 and an easy target for profiling 07:50 hmmmm well 07:50 hmmmm I noticed that a lot of popular mods are unoptimal right now 07:50 hmmmm because they work well enough 07:51 hmmmm enough of those good-enough mods get piled onto something like vanessae's server and they create something horrifying 07:51 celeron55 you're going to get that kind of problems with the separately threaded ones too; they will block each other from running and cause havoc that way 07:52 celeron55 you can't prevent stupid 07:52 hmmmm in any case 07:52 celeron55 stupid will happen; just make things nice for good modders 07:52 hmmmm we have to deal with the ramnifications of stupid 07:52 celeron55 yes, but don't make that your primary goal 07:52 celeron55 otherwise you'll make Java or something 07:54 hmmmm i feel like custom physics is an entirely different requirement to be honest 07:54 hmmmm it's out of scope for what i'm doing right now 07:54 hmmmm it's nice to keep in mind but if i try to make everything work all at once it's going to fail 07:55 celeron55 you can probably consider it out of scope 07:55 hmmmm any complex system that is in a working state evolved from a once unsophisticated system years ago 07:55 celeron55 just don't try to solve it at all with the separate thread and maybe i'll do it or something 07:55 hmmmm oh, you're interested in minetest again or something? :/ 07:56 celeron55 am i not allowed to? 07:56 rubenwardy client side lua makes Minetest more interesting 07:56 hmmmm you don't develop things you don't use 07:56 hmmmm heh 07:56 celeron55 well what if i would use custom physics and player controls 07:57 hmmmm i'd be really happy for you to start developing once again but you can't flake out like everybody else does 07:57 hmmmm there seriously needs to be more than 1 consistently active developer 07:58 hmmmm else it's going to end up like sapier where half the job got done and then he lost interest and dropped off the face of minetest-dev 07:58 hmmmm also zeno was supposed to abstract away irrlicht and he disappeared 07:59 celeron55 well frankly abstracting away irrlicht is very tedious and difficult 07:59 celeron55 can't blame him 08:00 celeron55 probably almost stupidly tedious and difficult, but i'm not going to tell that to someone who wants to try 08:00 hmmmm everybody seems to follow a pattern where they start off with lots of energy and motivation and end up doing great things for minetest 08:00 hmmmm then they disappear 08:01 hmmmm then they come back and say "hey i'm going to get involved again!" which happens, for two weeks or so 08:02 celeron55 well, MT is kind of overwhelming for any of us 08:05 nrzkt shadowdevs :D 08:06 celeron55 i think one issue is that people are unable to team up with each other to work on a larger feature 08:06 celeron55 and then burn out when trying to get it done in any reasonable amount of time 08:06 celeron55 but that's hard to solve when few people even have enough skills to do anything at all 08:10 celeron55 but clearly it is not worth it on a personal level to contribute something big to minetest 08:13 celeron55 or it might be, but it's so long-term that nobody realizes it 08:14 hmmmm i think we might eventually overtake minecraft in popularity 08:14 hmmmm it's an entire genre, i feel, that's about as permanent as FPSes or RTSes 08:14 hmmmm remember when every FPS was a doom clone in 1993? 08:15 celeron55 i wasn't playing games when i was four years old but i do know that 08:15 celeron55 i'm wondering if people generally hated doom and its clones back then 08:15 celeron55 like they are starting to hate minecraft and its clones now 08:16 celeron55 or, well, years ago actually 08:17 hmmmm yeah 08:17 hmmmm but at the same time doom is considered to be like... the reference for FPSes 08:17 hmmmm and it being open sourced helps a lot 08:18 celeron55 well, people get fed up of something and they move on to something else, and then after 10 years they realize the thing they got fed up actually was good, they just had too much of it 08:18 celeron55 this happens everywhere 08:19 celeron55 altough, minecraft is still ridiculously popular; just not very much among older people 08:19 hmmmm when this second wave of popularity comes around, minetest should be well refined at that point 08:20 hmmmm although at its current trajectory it's more of an OS than emacs is 08:20 celeron55 the "being fed up" is affecting all of us too, of course 08:20 rubenwardy i think we might eventually overtake minecraft in popularity 08:20 rubenwardy It'll take a lot of work 08:21 hmmmm might have to fight this urge to feature creep 08:21 rubenwardy Have you seen this thread? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13061 08:22 hmmmm right 08:22 hmmmm less features, more refinement in general 08:22 hmmmm less emphasis on new features 08:23 rubenwardy we do need both 08:24 celeron55 one of the reasons i'm reluctant in touching minetest is that i'm still not sure what it's supposed to be; it diverged from my original plans so much in 2011 that i haven't been able to define it properly ever since 08:24 hmmmm it's an OS 08:24 hmmmm all we need to do is add preemption to lua threads and there you go 08:24 hmmmm preemption to lua to make threads* 08:25 rubenwardy It's a fully fledged OS, lacking only a good voxel game 08:25 rubenwardy content wise 08:26 celeron55 it's a voxel game and game engine that just lacks a good voxel game and a good game engine 08:26 celeron55 just a regular open source project, that is 08:26 hmmmm i think we're doing okay for a small handful of volunteers 08:27 hmmmm mm okay i can hardly form coherent sentences anymore, i need to go to sleep 08:28 celeron55 well, MT has to do better in order to stay relevant 08:28 celeron55 it's a fact 09:01 johnwayne1986 hey, what about making a kickstarter (or sth) project for making minetest 5.0 with defined goals? ;) 09:18 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/525 09:18 Calinou close maybe? I'm sure there's already an engine issue for it 12:44 RealBadAngel msg NickServ identify angelxx1 12:44 RealBadAngel lmao 12:45 nrzkt epic fail :D 12:45 RealBadAngel indeed ;) 12:48 Donillo huh, you better be using longer passwords 12:48 Donillo :P 12:51 sgtbigman or ssl certs :p 13:25 VanessaE RealBadAngel: your password sucks. :) 13:30 exio4 RealBadAngel: I hope you already changed your password 13:34 RealBadAngel i will change it, i have to ;) 13:34 RealBadAngel anyway i figured out growing of mese crystals 13:35 RealBadAngel first of all farms would work only at certain depth and below, like -1000 13:35 VanessaE I would say underwater, with a mese block as the base and "seed". 13:35 VanessaE and a LOT of heat 13:35 VanessaE such as a lava source under the mese 13:35 RealBadAngel "soil" will be obsidian, turneable to it only by using diamond hoe 13:36 VanessaE but that probably would conflict with the lavacooling code. 13:36 RealBadAngel and lotsa lava around instead of water 13:36 RealBadAngel no 13:36 RealBadAngel abm will be put on obsidian soil 13:37 VanessaE that makes no sense to me, really 13:37 RealBadAngel it will work, believe me :) 13:37 VanessaE why would obsidian generate anything other than silica or somthing? 13:37 VanessaE use a mese block for the seed. 13:37 VanessaE soil* 13:37 RealBadAngel thats about the seed 13:38 RealBadAngel not the ground where it could be planted 13:38 RealBadAngel also a special tool will be needed to cut off a piece of crystal grown 13:39 RealBadAngel pick will dig all the formation at the time 13:39 RealBadAngel same as for formation found grown naturally 13:40 RealBadAngel the tool will reduce growing stage by 1, givin back one crystal 13:40 RealBadAngel but wont remove minimal growing stage 13:42 RealBadAngel and the seed can be also made expensive 13:42 RealBadAngel like 8 mese crystals with obsidian shard in the middle 13:44 RealBadAngel thats gonna bring whole new level to the game. and kinda unique 13:46 Donillo what is mese? what is it's legend on generation? :) 13:47 Donillo pardon my engrish 13:48 VanessaE it's a crystalline artifact of alien origin, somewhat similar to a (very) hard plastic. 13:48 Calinou it's on old Minetest wiki... 13:48 VanessaE electrically conductive, usable as a power source when combined with other materials. 13:48 Calinou it's something related to a Finnish programming community 13:48 Calinou the 8 in 8) and 8D smileys are "Mese glasses" 13:49 VanessaE oh the name? that's a Finnish shorthand for "MSN Messenger" or something 13:50 Calinou yeah 13:51 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/vxfrNtQojkvy.png 13:52 RealBadAngel they do glow, more grown, the brighter 13:52 Donillo aren't first two way too different? 13:52 Calinou we still need glowmap textures :( 13:52 RealBadAngel and comparing to mese_in_stone that looks really nice 13:53 RealBadAngel theyre a bit transparent 13:53 VanessaE Calinou: glowmap? 13:53 RealBadAngel the third map.... 13:54 RealBadAngel you see, modern mapping techniques requitre not just one map 13:54 RealBadAngel but about 5 of them 13:54 Donillo I think crystalls alone can coexist with mese in stone 13:54 RealBadAngel but... that would kill the engine for sure ;) 13:54 Calinou VanessaE, a texture overlaid over the main one, that constantly glows, even in the dark 13:55 Calinou could be coloured optionally 13:55 VanessaE oh 13:55 Calinou RealBadAngel, https://github.com/kmkolasinski/AwesomeBump 13:55 RealBadAngel Calinou, thats the tool im using 13:55 Calinou Diffuse, Normal, Specular, Height, Occlusion, Roughness, Metallic 13:55 Calinou :) 13:56 RealBadAngel diffuse is regular texture 13:56 RealBadAngel occlusion i have no slightest idea what for 13:56 RealBadAngel rest of them are actually useable 13:57 RealBadAngel and normal + height are combined into one 13:57 RealBadAngel that makes 5 13:59 Calinou occlusion is rarely used, yeah 13:59 Calinou you also need a specular map most of the time 13:59 Calinou even though Minetest doesn't use any 13:59 Calinou it's used more often than height, in general 14:04 RealBadAngel Donillo, i dont think that they can coexist 14:05 RealBadAngel ofc they could be made so, but why? 14:05 RealBadAngel mese is special 14:06 VanessaE it used to be. 14:07 VanessaE then diamonds were added, which sorta diminished that 14:26 RealBadAngel diamonds, mese, metals.... 14:26 RealBadAngel theyre not different atm 14:27 RealBadAngel just a different colour 14:27 rubenwardy RealBadAngel, are those diamonds smooth growing? 14:27 RealBadAngel not yer 14:27 rubenwardy are there different nodes? crystal_1, 2, etc 14:27 RealBadAngel yes 14:27 rubenwardy s/diamonds/crstals 14:28 RealBadAngel 4 stages are different nodes and drops 14:29 RealBadAngel stage one gives one crystal 14:29 RealBadAngel most rare stage 4 gives 4 14:29 Brains y 14:29 Brains (wrong window, sorry) 14:30 RealBadAngel crystalline bell will be able to take out one crystal without destroyin the seed 14:35 RealBadAngel you could be able to use it on natural ones, but they wont regrow 14:41 RealBadAngel i do have code almost done, propably will merge it tomorrow 14:41 RealBadAngel its up to mt to get it or not, imho its worth it 16:06 est31 okay I'll push a commit that removes the modstore button 16:07 nrzkt ps ax 16:07 nrzkt oops :p 16:07 rubenwardy missing - as well 16:08 rubenwardy nevermind 16:08 * est31 does ps -Al 16:09 Calinou I'm hardcore, ps a 16:15 rubenwardy ps -aux for me 16:15 nrzkt i don't need users then no u :D 16:16 rubenwardy I don't actually know what each does. I don't need users either 16:17 est31 Wayward_One, have you tested the commit? 16:21 nrzkt Jenkins Android builds will be offline for a moment because i'm migrating my server to a new machine and the Android VM needs some things to be migrated 16:22 est31 ok 16:28 Wayward_One est31: yes, it worked fine 16:37 est31 ok then gonna push the commit then 16:59 est31 okay, mmdb disable commit is pushed 17:23 est31 ok, as we reach the release, we need somebody to write a changelog. 17:23 est31 any volunteers? 17:28 nrzkt Calinou go ! 17:31 * est31 looks at the issues with the blocker label... all fixed. 17:31 est31 seems we can make the release 17:31 sfan5 does this mean that i can make builds soon? 17:32 est31 we need to wait for paramat to make the game release 17:32 est31 last week he expressed his wish that he wants to do it 17:33 est31 but from the engine side everything is ready 17:34 nrzkt then tag the branch now 17:34 nrzkt and do the version modifications 17:35 est31 lets do it. 17:36 nrzkt est31 17:36 nrzkt before tagging 17:37 nrzkt https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5622fb2cee6d86f0220ea5773ec78f5f2f6714c3#commitcomment-12790406 17:37 nrzkt can you do this ? 17:37 nrzkt the translation choosen is very bad 17:39 est31 hrmmm... 17:39 est31 might conflict weblate, dunno 17:40 est31 lets try it 17:41 est31 can you push a fixing commit? 17:41 nrzkt est31 sorry but i'm at work, cannot :s 17:42 kilbith as i said, "JcJ" is a very unclear acronym 17:42 kilbith don't be so nitpicky 17:43 nrzkt JcJ is know by all RPG gamers 17:43 nrzkt known* 17:43 kilbith our players are kids, bear in mind 17:45 est31 lets push two other very trivial prs 17:46 est31 3077 and 3063 17:49 kilbith rubenwardy: can you write the changelog ? 17:49 Donillo what is JcJ? 17:50 kilbith PvP 17:50 kilbith the most efficient option for the changelog would be a selective grep of #minetest bot messages 17:51 est31 you can generate such logs with git too 17:51 est31 the point of a changelog is to filter the list for important changes 17:52 est31 not all commits should appear in changelog 17:52 kilbith ideally it should fill a .txt whenever the bot announces a commit 17:52 est31 also, the bot has been offline during some times, making commits not getting recorded 17:53 est31 and you'll have to filter jeja's mesecon commits out, and other repos that also log to the bot 17:54 kilbith right, and we have no way to sort by level of importance 17:54 est31 nice, the release commit will be the 4900th one :) 17:58 rubenwardy I was considering it, kilbith 17:58 rubenwardy I guess I could 17:59 est31 ok, lets push the button, there were no new blocker issues the last days, everbody had enough time to declare what they deem blocker. 17:59 est31 I'll have to do a clean clone build of minetest, to assure its working as intended 17:59 rubenwardy when was the last release? Feb? 17:59 est31 rubenwardy, yes 18:00 rubenwardy okay, I'll start the changelog 18:00 est31 builders: don't build yet, wait for mtgame to be released 18:03 kilbith est31: meanwhile can you blast that "0.5.0-dev" in releases ? 18:03 est31 ? 18:03 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases 18:04 est31 dunno why nrzkt did that release 18:04 nrzkt i didn't do it 18:04 nrzkt github make a release for each tag 18:04 nrzkt this is automated 18:05 est31 perhaps no tag then? 18:05 kilbith the 0.5 tag existed before nrzkt and there was no such release 18:06 kilbith unless i'm mistaking with flag 18:10 hmmmm oh wait 18:10 hmmmm don't forget to update the contributors 18:10 rubenwardy Are nerzhul's commit messages always too long? 18:11 hmmmm a commit message can never be too long, just too many columns in the same line 18:11 est31 hmmmm, good catch 18:11 est31 hmmmm, can you make a commit? 18:12 est31 otherwise I do it 18:12 hmmmm yeah i'll do it 18:13 est31 RealBadAngel, last chance to be not listed in "previous core developers" 18:13 hmmmm also last call for changes 18:22 hmmmm oh wait a minute 18:22 hmmmm I realize this is probably a moot point because you can just look at the commit logs, but... 18:23 hmmmm do you think it might be a good idea to remove contributors' emails from the credits? 18:23 rubenwardy bored shitless, someone else can continue: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/e9e832cbf6216635b610 18:24 hmmmm I mean, I don't think people who don't look at commit logs are going to email them anything intelligent 18:24 rubenwardy yeah, I say remove it 18:24 hmmmm hehe, my name is so absent from the changelog 18:24 est31 some people only get the binary, and not the source 18:25 est31 but I guess this is the internet age, everybody can find this out 18:25 hmmmm also i thought there were way many more changes than that 18:25 est31 so I'm ok with it 18:25 est31 its incomplete 18:25 hmmmm est31: yeah, like I said.. people who get only the binary probably don't have business emailing anybody 18:26 hmmmm I mean what are they going to say 18:26 hmmmm "Uhhm I really like minetest but you need to add kangaroos to the game" 18:28 hmmmm when I originally re-did the credits tab, I added email addresses because that's what other credits tabs in FOSS do 18:29 rubenwardy hmmmm, most of your changes up to that point are reverts 18:29 hmmmm hah! 18:30 hmmmm serves them right for making bad commits 18:30 rubenwardy I got up to 16th of March 18:30 hmmmm makes sense then, I took a minetest break around that time 18:30 est31 ha lol 18:31 est31 every time hmmmm does a break, things go awry 18:31 rubenwardy true 18:31 hmmmm I remember the last time I returned everything was broken again 18:31 hmmmm FPS regressions, doesn't even compile, etc. 18:31 hmmmm maybe it's just a coincidence that it seems that way because I'm not aware of the current problems 18:34 rubenwardy surely there's an app which allows you to go through a commit list and click "feature", "bug fix", "discard" etc 18:34 rubenwardy "rephrase" 18:35 rubenwardy s/app/program/ 18:36 hmmmm is sokomine a core dev? 18:36 est31 no 18:36 hmmmm hm okay 18:36 hmmmm I lost track 18:36 est31 https://github.com/orgs/minetest/people 18:37 hmmmm yeah the thing about that is you need to hover over everybody's names 18:37 hmmmm there's no plain list 18:37 hmmmm so i hate doing it 18:37 rubenwardy maybe I'll write an app for it 18:37 hmmmm lol 18:39 luizrpgluiz hey devs,I liked the news from minetest release candidate, will put more to this new version? 19:18 est31 hmmmm, before we have asked every dev whether they wanted their email to be mentioned 19:20 est31 so those people might complain now 19:20 est31 e.g. blockmen or paramat 19:22 RealBadAngel my actual email is maciej.kasatkin@o2.pl 19:23 RealBadAngel just for the record ;) 19:23 hmmmm whoops 19:23 hmmmm should we get rid of it 19:23 hmmmm RealBadAngel: that came from the commit log 19:24 hmmmm est, I'll remove blockmen and paramat 19:24 est31 and nrzkt 19:24 est31 & sapier 19:25 nrzkt you can let my mail 19:25 est31 TeTpaAka and gregorycu too 19:25 hmmmm oh 19:25 hmmmm gregorycu isn't around though 19:25 hmmmm we can't ask him so we'll have to assume that's a no 19:26 est31 well, he didn't actually object I think 19:26 nrzkt offtopic: zfs send|zfs recv is gorgeous for cloning a dataset with a bhyve VM on FreeBSD :D 19:27 est31 hrmm RealBadAngel wants to get #3073 fixed before release 19:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3073 -- tileable_{horizontal,vertical} flags cause fps decrease 19:28 hmmmm alright 19:28 hmmmm if it fixes the problem though 19:28 rubenwardy changelog pretty much done: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/0522aebc5265233ea45d 19:28 hmmmm there's so much mixed up information and misinformation 19:28 rubenwardy Just need to go through and check for mistakes 19:28 est31 we can wait a day or two for him to fix the bug, no? 19:28 hmmmm yeah what the hell. 19:29 hmmmm it is a pretty nasty bug. i wouldn't want to release with that. 19:29 hmmmm RealBadAngel, do you want your email updated? 19:29 hmmmm er not updated, changed to the real one 19:32 rubenwardy I used this to sort the commits: http://pastebin.com/LRcUgWMX 19:38 rubenwardy okay, edited this a bit: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/0522aebc5265233ea45d 19:38 RealBadAngel hmmmm, yes i would like it to be changed 19:39 rubenwardy How can I find out who jeanpatrick.guerrero@gmail.com is? 19:39 kilbith its me 19:40 rubenwardy thought so 19:40 Robert_Zenz RealBadAngel, how can I be of help? 19:40 RealBadAngel est31, hmmmm about 3073 im talkin to author of the issue right now 19:40 RealBadAngel Robert_Zenz, lets talk in private 19:41 rubenwardy was utf support actually added, or was just some commits done towards it? 19:46 hmmmm it was added, we use libiconv 19:46 rubenwardy for the record, these commits were discarded from the changelog: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/07f6c105b13b35a3f8be 19:46 est31 rubenwardy, chat isn't done with utf-8 yet, but we added conversion routines 19:46 hmmmm the UTF-8 change commit deprecates wide characters in the chat messages 19:46 est31 also they are used 19:47 est31 not yet hmmmm, unfortunately. 19:47 est31 but some bugs got fixed with encoding issues 19:47 est31 also, the "narrow" encoding which has been system dependent, became utf-8 19:48 est31 proller wants his email to be removed as well 19:49 rubenwardy okay, the change log is done on my end, you may want to go through and remove / modify messages to what you think are relevant 19:50 Donillo about encodings, no more that crap when I can't see russian text from Windows players anymore? 19:50 est31 perhaps unify the "Loic Blot"/"Ner'zhul" 19:51 rubenwardy yeah 19:51 Donillo huh, very nice :) 19:52 rubenwardy done 19:52 est31 wow quite a list 19:53 rubenwardy these didn't make the cut, not sure if you agree with me https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/07f6c105b13b35a3f8be 19:54 rubenwardy yeah, it's pretty big 19:54 rubenwardy I wrote a script to help me through it 19:55 rubenwardy I'm tired, time to go to sleep o/ 19:55 est31 Perhaps translators should be attributed somehow too 19:55 est31 only with a list of their names 19:56 rubenwardy yeah 19:56 rubenwardy and minetest_game needs to be done 19:56 rubenwardy it's a good release when "bug fixes" is longer than "features" 19:56 hmmmm alright 19:56 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/5009d31a333a8e1fff8c97bed69873164c72c600 19:57 hmmmm look good? anybody else want their details in the credits tab modified? 19:57 est31 lgtm 20:01 est31 okay, lets wait one or two days on the engine side for RealBadAngel to fix the fps bug with the tileable flags. 20:09 nore hmmmm: I'd like an update for me on the website if possible (I already updated the credits however) 20:10 hmmmm i can't change the website, sorry 20:10 nore nvm, it's not that urgent 20:11 nore since there is the website competition anyway, I guess it will be easy to change it after the new website is used 20:19 rubenwardy nore, I have access to the website 20:21 rubenwardy is that okay: http://www.minetest.net/contributors 20:21 nore yep, thanks! 20:37 paramat hi nore sfan5 last thing for release game#640 shall we merge something like this? 20:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/640 -- Fire: Slow down spread and reduce lua load by paramat 20:40 hmmmm i want to be able to use fire but it consumes the entire serverthread 20:40 paramat don't forget #3079 20:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3079 -- Remove use of engine sent texture tiling flags - theyre no longer needed by RealBadAngel 20:40 hmmmm would really like to time limit abm processing 20:42 sfan5 paramat: the pr should include a comment why that ABM was disabled 20:42 paramat yes ok 20:43 sfan5 seems good otherwise 20:45 paramat the way sounds are done may be making it heavy too, something to work on after release 20:46 nrzkt ~tell est31: Jenkins slave for android is back. 20:46 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K. 20:56 RealBadAngel paramat, please hold on with 3079 20:57 paramat sure, i was leaving the merge to others anyway 20:57 RealBadAngel theres something wrong with clamping, im workin now with author of the issue https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3073 20:57 RealBadAngel to find out whats wrong 21:11 paramat credits tab is fine for me thanks 21:21 RealBadAngel paramat, i have found the reason, going to update 3079 soon 21:21 paramat ok 21:22 RealBadAngel i will test it for a while if everything is ok now 21:47 RealBadAngel ok #3079 is updated 21:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3079 -- Remove use of engine sent texture tiling flags - theyre no longer needed by RealBadAngel 21:48 RealBadAngel issue 3073 can be closed 21:50 paramat cool 23:23 est31 RealBadAngel, what did you change with #3079? 23:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3079 -- Remove use of engine sent texture tiling flags - theyre no longer needed by RealBadAngel 23:24 RealBadAngel i removed checking tileable flags for constructing fast faces 23:24 RealBadAngel that was a reason for the slowdown 23:25 est31 hrmmm, seems sb will have to test it... 23:25 RealBadAngel i did 23:25 RealBadAngel it is working ok now, theres no drop 23:26 RealBadAngel but first to test will be propably Robert_Zenz, the one who reported it 23:26 est31 yea 23:27 RealBadAngel anyway this PR has to go in .13 23:27 RealBadAngel this is more bugfix than cleanup 23:27 est31 if it does the speedup, I'll merge it. 23:28 RealBadAngel it does by two things 23:28 RealBadAngel fixing a bug and removing obsolete code 23:29 RealBadAngel anyway i do have crystalline bell ready, testing it now :) 23:33 est31 man the new grass is ugly without bumpmapping 23:34 est31 but for the sake of peace, it should be kept this way 23:34 RealBadAngel lol 23:35 RealBadAngel i do really love how grass looks like with bumps and displacement, especially the sides 23:36 RealBadAngel but i do agree its a bit to bright now 23:36 RealBadAngel before it was more juicy green 23:37 RealBadAngel i will propably revert that commit 23:37 est31 its not your fault 23:37 est31 its paramats 23:38 est31 he promised a compromise, what he took was the barf texture 23:38 est31 but lets not talk about it 23:39 RealBadAngel compromises are worth shit 23:40 RealBadAngel you will never fit all the tastes around 23:40 est31 ^ 23:40 est31 oops wrong button :) 23:41 est31 whats again the default for the tileable flags? 23:41 RealBadAngel better to have some1 with good taste to decide whats good lookin 23:41 RealBadAngel seamless is default 23:41 RealBadAngel only some nodes need that flag, like dirt with grass or snow 23:42 RealBadAngel sorry, tiles, not the nodes 23:42 est31 tileable_horizontal = true or false which is default? 23:42 RealBadAngel both true == texture seamless 23:42 RealBadAngel both true are default 23:42 est31 ok 23:43 RealBadAngel you can define true in tiledef but that makes no sence while theyre default 23:43 RealBadAngel so you should do that only with false case 23:43 est31 interesting, I cant reproduce what robert zenz can reproduce 23:43 est31 you know the displacement bug 23:44 est31 what do i have to turn on? 23:44 RealBadAngel parallax mapping 23:44 est31 in the gui whats the option there? 23:44 RealBadAngel parallax mapping ;) 23:44 est31 there is only bumpmapping and parallax occlusion 23:44 RealBadAngel ouch 23:44 RealBadAngel occlussion 23:45 RealBadAngel but thats the same 23:45 est31 ah now I see the bug 23:45 est31 ok 23:45 RealBadAngel its very nature is to move the texture 23:45 est31 around 30 fps 23:45 est31 err 23:45 RealBadAngel if its not seamless, then houston we have a problem ;) 23:45 est31 around 20 23:45 RealBadAngel apply now the patch 23:46 RealBadAngel with lotsa grass around your fps should double basically 23:46 est31 I see 23:46 est31 when the tileable flags are true, I get ~14 fps 23:46 est31 while I get ~30 fps with the tileable flags being false 23:46 RealBadAngel thats not the problem with flags themselves 23:46 est31 err 23:47 est31 other way round 23:47 est31 RealBadAngel, I know 23:47 est31 I only want to see the difference 23:47 RealBadAngel problem was i disabled fastfaces for grass with them 23:47 est31 because thats the bug 23:47 RealBadAngel and that was the mistake 23:47 est31 now lets try your patch 23:49 RealBadAngel btw, parallax occlusion is now rather incorrect 23:50 RealBadAngel we are using relief mapping 23:50 est31 okay your patch works 23:50 RealBadAngel we do have still code for parallax occlusion mapping but i think its obsolete. too low quality of the method 23:51 est31 I agree with you now, we can merge it IMO. 23:52 est31 perhaps also remove the part where the texture flags are sent to the shader? 23:52 RealBadAngel nononono 23:52 RealBadAngel no way :) 23:52 RealBadAngel i need that code 23:52 est31 for what 23:52 RealBadAngel to send to shaders anything 23:52 est31 well thats ok 23:52 RealBadAngel irrlicht lacks of setting vertex attributes 23:53 RealBadAngel ive spent months figuring out working way to do so 23:53 est31 just remove the part where you send the g and b values for the tileability flags 23:53 RealBadAngel this code is an absolute MUST HAVE 23:54 est31 its a very neat trick, but we should send only what we read at the other side 23:54 est31 I dont mean that you should remove all attribute sending code 23:54 est31 only the part that sends the tileability h and v flags 23:54 RealBadAngel so lets leave only R part 23:54 est31 yes 23:54 RealBadAngel i will save a copy of the code 23:55 est31 its in git, nothing is lost :) 23:55 RealBadAngel i prefer my own ways 23:56 est31 no problem with that 23:56 RealBadAngel shall i update the pr then> 23:56 RealBadAngel ? 23:56 est31 yes 23:57 RealBadAngel gimme a few minutes then