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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-17

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Time Nick Message
00:20 paramat left #minetest-dev
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02:56 paramat now pushing game#636
02:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/636 -- Default: Change to original long grass textures by Gambit by paramat
03:01 paramat heh actually kilbith suggested doing this, good idea too
03:04 paramat lush merge complete
03:07 VanessaE mmm...
03:07 VanessaE you need to pngcrush them
03:07 VanessaE mods/default/textures/default_grass_1.png | Bin 140 -> 2944 bytes
03:07 VanessaE (and similar)
03:07 VanessaE suggest doing a mass crush on the whole repo after you get the bricks texture up
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06:25 Hunterz where is the best place to add code for server console thread? make console.cpp or add to server.cpp or something else?
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07:12 hmmmm server_console.cpp
07:15 Hunterz thx, Im experimenting with readline library
07:16 Hunterz its best for completion, history etc...
07:19 hmmmm understood, but adding an additional dependency is a pretty big deal
07:19 hmmmm just keep that in mind
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07:23 Hunterz without history, completion is not console :)
07:24 Hunterz readline is multiplatform or not?
07:24 hmmmm i don't know if it is, but it should definitely be optional
07:24 hmmmm gnu libraries are notoriously difficult to get working on windows
07:26 Hunterz I made some years ago adventure game engine with readline, works fine on linux, mac ond windows too
07:27 Hunterz http://sourceforge.net/projec​ts/textovka/?source=directory
07:28 celeron55 well you will have to re-implement the wanted parts of readline from scratch
07:28 celeron55 readline is GPL anyway so it's no-go
07:29 Hunterz cannot use readline in minetest? gpl is problem?
07:29 celeron55 or maybe https://github.com/antirez/linenoise or http://thrysoee.dk/editline/ or something
07:30 celeron55 dunno really, but GPL is definitely a problem
07:30 hmmmm are the readline functionalities really complex enough to warrant its own library?
07:30 hmmmm unless i'm misunderstanding something, it's downright trivial to implement.
07:32 celeron55 well much of readline and its clones is useless for minetest
07:32 celeron55 they deal with stuff like refreshing parts of a line in a terminal
07:32 hmmmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Re​adline#Implications_of_GNU_Readline.27s_GPL_license
07:32 hmmmm thanks richard
07:33 celeron55 so we can pretty much state right now that we won't be using any library for "readline" functionality
07:33 hmmmm i dunno, the text cursor control may be worth something.
07:34 hmmmm just because it's a pita to implement for both windows and ansi compliant shells
07:34 celeron55 wait what; why would there be a real terminal interface to minetest?
07:35 hmmmm isn't that the point of the server console?
07:36 celeron55 oh this was about a server terminal interface; well then using one of those clones probablby makes sense
07:36 hmmmm hah oh wow
07:36 hmmmm good thing readline isn't being used
07:36 hmmmm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/47​37082/statically-linked-correctly-wor​king-readline-library-under-windows
07:37 hmmmm this ^^^^ this kind of shit right here is why i hate adding dependencies
07:37 hmmmm and some people love adding dependencies because they only compile things on their own machine for their own platforms
07:37 celeron55 well that's why i want a copy of the library to be included in the source like lua is
07:38 celeron55 it's so much easier on non-unix platforms
07:50 OldCoder celeron55, just getting to sleep. Hello o/
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07:56 celeron55 OldCoder: umm... hi
07:57 OldCoder Yes, celeron55, that is what they say in response :-)
07:57 * OldCoder dozes
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08:00 Hunterz is readline unusable for minetest? May I use another library for planned server console?
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08:33 celeron55 Hunterz: yes, readline is unusable due to licensing and rather bad cross-platform support; try one of the small BSD/MIT/LGPL readline clones instead
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09:37 Hunterz ok, thanks
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16:14 paramat hi nore sfan5 please sometime can you consider game#638 game#639 ?
16:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/638 -- Default: New stone brick and desert stone brick textures by paramat
16:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/639 -- Boats: Fix sinking through boat when detaching, by CProgrammerRU by paramat
16:16 paramat that's possibly the last stuff to go in for release
16:36 RealBadAngel no, not rly ;)
16:37 paramat oh oops
16:37 RealBadAngel i have 3 patches for ya rdy, need to go back home for it
16:37 paramat cool
16:37 RealBadAngel ive speeded up shaders a bit thx to tiling flag in core
16:38 RealBadAngel the second is tiling lua stuff
16:38 RealBadAngel and the third is shitload of normal maps
16:39 RealBadAngel i do also have almost done mese crystals and farming of the crystals done, but that wont propably go in here
16:39 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/iaPcgC05OMOG.png
16:40 RealBadAngel but new maps for grass etc are imho very nice: https://imgrush.com/ZKDxQekDpoUO.png
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16:53 Krock amazing graphics :D
17:10 sfan5 paramat: isn't that rather hacky?
17:12 sfan5 (that = game # 639)
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18:02 paramat sfan5 perhaps, i welcome input on the implementation
18:02 paramat not my area of expertise
18:03 paramat however it works
18:10 paramat the player sinking through the boat is embarassing so i feel this should be fixed for release
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18:28 paramat perhaps set_detach() can take a position argument?
18:31 paramat nope
18:48 Wayward_One Hmmmm, have you seen Antarctica (http://supertuxkart.sourcefo​rge.net/Antarctica:_Overview ) yet? It seems to have many of the features we've been wanting for Minetest, like shadows and dynamic lighting among others. Just wondering, would it be worth it, or even plausible, to switch to Antarctica without a major rewrite? I'm assuming because it's based on Irrlicht that it shouldn't be too hard, but I'm really not too kn
18:49 hmmmm I don't know
18:49 Wayward_One Although, upon further consideration, the OpenGL 3.1 requirement might be a problem...
18:49 hmmmm in theory once Zeno` is done with the abstraction layer we should be able to switch between engines relatively painlessly
18:49 hmmmm yeah, I want OpenGL 2 to be the bare minimum
18:49 hmmmm OpenGL 2.1 rather is the lowest I'm willing to go
18:49 hmmmm the newest
18:50 Wayward_One I see
18:50 hmmmm so a couple words about shadows and dynamic lighting
18:50 Wayward_One That abstraction layer sounds interesting
18:50 hmmmm this is not trivial at all for minetest
18:51 hmmmm we use vertex lighting because it works for our needs
18:51 hmmmm not because it's the best we can do
18:52 Wayward_One Ah, ok
18:52 hmmmm the alternative would be to generate lightmaps along with the meshes but there's absolutely no benefit to that over vertex lighting since our lighting occurs in a regular grid
18:52 Calinou generating lightmaps is slow
18:52 hmmmm dynamic lighting is not an answer to our problems either because there are only a finite number allowed on the screen at any given moment
18:52 hmmmm on some older cards this number might be as low as like... 4
18:53 hmmmm and they are very resource intensive
18:53 hmmmm the Sun might be good as a dynamic light but all the other node-sourced lighting aren't
18:54 hmmmm lights*
18:55 hmmmm a lot of other block games have those RGB lights and fancy effects, but they're using dynamic lights for those too
18:56 hmmmm it looks fantastic in screenshots but they can't dodge the reality of the hardware limitations
18:57 Wayward_One Hmm
19:05 hmmmm i do plan on adding an option for a global environment dynamic light, but i reckon that should come along sometime after client side modding
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19:30 est31 ~tell Hunterz for the case you want a server console, i have an experimental branch already set up, using the curses library: https://github.com/est31/mi​netest/tree/ncurses-console
19:30 ShadowBot est31: O.K.
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19:43 est31 paramat, I'm against removing pine aliases, for the same reason as VanessaE
19:43 est31 many servers already had pines since 0.4.12
19:44 paramat yep i agree now, all aliases are in and staying
19:45 est31 Donillo, yes you cannot login with an older client if your password is set with a new client.
19:46 est31 but when we release 0.4.13 for android, you can connect with android again
19:46 est31 just ask an admin to reset your password, you will be abled to login with old client again
19:46 est31 then only change your passwords with old clients
19:46 Donillo admin is me :)
19:47 Donillo thanks, I will keep it in mind
19:48 est31 /clearpassword or /setpassword
19:48 est31 both set it compatible with old clients
19:49 Donillo I've already resorted to small lua script which restricts my account only to my IP addresses, I login without password
19:49 est31 well, thats a way too
20:03 Donillo what's wrong with 'pinewood'?
20:04 paramat nore do you still prefer the darker needles? game#637 you have a deciding vote
20:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/637 -- Use the lighter moretrees pine needles texture
20:06 paramat Donillo nothing, it's used in language, but separated words are clearer, consistent with acacia and other node names
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20:14 MoNTE48 Hello friends! I've noticed that on some Android-powered device has a problem with sqlite3 db. Just leveldb has great performance, IMHO
20:14 paramat unfortunately some block names have crept in in combined form, so i added a comment to nodes.lua starting a node name convention
20:15 MoNTE48 Is there a way to disable the assembly and use sqlite3 for Android? To use only LevelDB.
20:16 Calinou "hello, how can I make more money"
20:16 Calinou how I read it ^
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20:24 Donillo beds mod from minetest_game set spawn permanently, even if bed itself was removed
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20:36 paramat will merge game#638 very soon
20:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/638 -- Default: New stone brick and desert stone brick textures by paramat
20:40 MoNTE48 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2997
20:40 MoNTE48 good improve for 0.4.13!
20:57 paramat now pushing game 638
21:01 paramat merge complete
21:03 paramat thanks for the input
21:11 RealBadAngel rotfl
21:11 RealBadAngel and rotfl again
21:11 RealBadAngel "Too much FPS"
21:12 nrzkt RealBadAngel: ?
21:12 * RealBadAngel is still rolling around the whole floor
21:13 RealBadAngel nrzkt, somebody have just complained that mt is TOO FAST
21:13 RealBadAngel and it causes droid device to be hot :)
21:14 MoNTE48 I use this card progruzki works better. None of the "experimental" have not seen a difference when using MultiCraft 30, 40 and 50 FPS
21:15 VanessaE MoNTE48: mobile devices are not meant for 3d gaming of this nature
21:15 VanessaE if they overheat, blame their manufacturers.
21:16 VanessaE NEVER slow a program down just because some device overheats when running it
21:16 MoNTE48 My Galaxy S6 Edge can keep 60 FPS! But then it is very hot and completely discharged in 1 hour!
21:16 MoNTE48 On 30 FPS everything is fine
21:17 paramat hehe
21:17 MoNTE48 Galaxy S6 Edge - 70k in Antutu
21:17 VanessaE so change your settings.
21:17 VanessaE you can soft-limit the fps in your .conf
21:18 MoNTE48 Only a very powerful devices may FPS> 30. But it means a fast discharge and fever. What for?
21:18 VanessaE again, change your minetest.conf to limit it to 30 fps or whatever.
21:18 VanessaE max_fps = 30
21:18 MoNTE48 Conventional players do not know this. Excuse me, but they are stupid. :)
21:18 VanessaE wanted_fps=30
21:18 VanessaE then put it in your default.conf that comes with your package.
21:19 MoNTE48 wanted_fps = max_fps? LoL.
21:19 VanessaE yes, both the same
21:19 VanessaE wanted = what you want it to get up to by adjusting view range
21:19 VanessaE you could in theory limit it to say 20 wanted, 30 max
21:19 VanessaE but players don't like inconsistent fps
21:19 VanessaE so set both the same
21:20 VanessaE that'll get the effect you want without engine changes,
21:20 MoNTE48 My version is very well demonstrated in testing. You argue, but experience has shown that the game began to work better and more satisfied players.
21:21 MoNTE48 On the small screen is not necessary FPS> 30! You just do not see the difference. Try it yourself.
21:21 VanessaE well no one here is going to entertain the idea of hard-limiting FPS in the engine just for android if the same can be achieved by adjusting the .conf that you supply with your apk
21:24 MoNTE48 My game is very popular, you understand :)
21:24 MoNTE48 I'm only doing what's good my players. Many of which are 8-12 years. They meet for the first time Minetest!
21:31 VanessaE FIX. YOUR. DEFAULT. CONFIG.
21:34 nrzkt STOP CAPS LOCK
21:38 MoNTE48 VanessaE, for me?
21:50 VanessaE :P
21:51 VanessaE MoNTE48: yes for you.  ship your package with a minetest.conf that is tailored to your FPS preference.
21:51 VanessaE nrzkt: no caps lock here - I ripped that fucker off my keyboard on day 1.  merely judicious use of 'shift'.
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21:52 nrzkt then stop having a heavy finger on SHIFT
21:52 VanessaE sorry just a little pissed off right now.
21:53 celeron55 i don't think a good conclusion can be made on the android fps limit thing unless many people that actually use minetest on android devices that are capable of running it at over 30fps come and tell their preferences
21:54 celeron55 minetest already has platform-specific defaults; implementation is not an issue; the issue is whether people actually want or even need that
21:54 MoNTE48 See also other configs.
21:55 MoNTE48 I have Note 4, S6 Edge, Zenfone 2 (4GB RAM) and LG G4. +30 FPS and my phone very high temp
21:56 VanessaE changing tracks:  since we have what appears to be a working limit on loaded blocks, I think the VBO idea should be implemented before release.
21:56 VanessaE (seeing as how that was the reason it never went in - meshes not being freed)
21:57 celeron55 it is true that VBOs should be re-evaluated now
21:59 VanessaE RealBadAngel: you had some code for that didn't you?
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22:00 hmmmm hell no
22:00 hmmmm no more new features
22:00 hmmmm we're so close to release time
22:01 * VanessaE shrugs
22:02 VanessaE I never really thought of that as a "feature", as much as a GPU setting that never got turned on
22:02 celeron55 i mean, probably not for this release, but otherwise
22:02 VanessaE along with that should be celeron55's idea of putting texture atlases back into use.
22:03 VanessaE one argument for VBO-before-release is it gives you something really tangible to crow about (the FPS boost).
22:03 celeron55 things like that are nearly always a bad idea
22:03 celeron55 because they are nearly always broken
22:03 celeron55 maybe not completely but at least subtly
22:04 celeron55 maybe 0.4.14 is a rendering performance release, who knows
22:05 VanessaE perhaps.
22:06 VanessaE there was another three-letter option someone mentioned forever ago, sounded similar to VBO. keep thinking it has something to do with framebuffer
22:07 nrzkt VanessaE: disagree, VBO not ready for this release and needs some test. The 0.4.13-dev window is better
22:07 VanessaE ok.
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22:24 paramat next, after release, i intend to tame the fire mod
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22:24 VanessaE I didn't know it was wild. :P
22:25 Donillo currently fire can spread infinitely?
22:25 Donillo or what?
22:28 Niebieski Minetest was removed from the wiki's list, and I misteriously can't login to my accout. :/
22:29 Niebieski Does Minetest support Arabic text ?
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22:52 RealBadAngel hmmmm, i can test now VBO code, i do have valgrind and c++11
22:52 RealBadAngel but i do agree that this is not for the current release
22:52 RealBadAngel too much doubts
22:54 RealBadAngel why folk with polish nick ask for arabic texts?
23:21 Niebieski RealBadAngel: I'm not polish. ^^
23:25 RealBadAngel so why you are using polish nick>
23:27 RealBadAngel this is adjcective, blue coloured
23:28 RealBadAngel very specific construction
23:30 Niebieski I just like it.
23:31 RealBadAngel so be just blue then ;)
23:31 Niebieski Google translate said it means 'blue'. Didn't know it's an adjective.
23:31 Niebieski I like the sound of Niebieski. :D Silly, I know.
23:31 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc
23:33 Niebieski Yeah, I know this one. but it's not uplifting. :D
23:33 Niebieski Blue is a good color.
23:34 RealBadAngel but sad somehow ;)
23:36 Niebieski Lets chat at #minetest so we don't be yelled at.
23:38 VanessaE before release, this crash-on-exit-to-menu needs fixed.
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