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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-13

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Time Nick Message
00:09 hmmmm what the f....
00:09 hmmmm RBA quit because people didn't want music directly in the core
00:10 hmmmm and he blames jthread for making his code slow
00:10 hmmmm is this serious
00:10 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you may merge this later on
00:10 RealBadAngel and for the music i waited more than a year
00:11 hmmmm main menu music - sure.  i have no problem with that, i think it's a neat feature
00:11 hmmmm but that's a per-game thing
00:11 RealBadAngel there were also a code for that
00:11 hmmmm i think what you want is to develop a *game* with less lua and more hard coded effects
00:11 RealBadAngel even c55 found it
00:11 hmmmm yes i saw it
00:11 RealBadAngel it was never merged
00:12 hmmmm probably because it says WIP on it
00:12 RealBadAngel lol
00:12 hmmmm if you're telling us it's still a work in progress...
00:12 hmmmm then why would we merge that
00:12 RealBadAngel i was begging for it many times
00:12 RealBadAngel like i should lol
00:12 hmmmm also i read that it breaks something
00:12 RealBadAngel lemme find a link
00:13 hmmmm why not just fix that, make it into a finished product, then merge it
00:13 hmmmm then merge the main menu music into minetest_game
00:13 hmmmm not the core...
00:13 RealBadAngel https://gitlab.unix-experience.fr/epixel/epixel
00:14 RealBadAngel point of the score was the engine having own
00:14 hmmmm RealBadAngel, honestly, I think if you are looking to go into the direction of a monolithic, non-modular game with things hard coded, freeminer or minetest-classic is more your thing
00:14 RealBadAngel and each game overrriding it at will
00:14 * Taoki believes that a patch to allow per-game main menu music should be merged... urgently. Also that 1.5 MB is NOT a big file size... at all. Also that RBA should stay and not leave the project :)
00:14 Taoki Head still hurts after this morning heh
00:15 RealBadAngel i asked legendary comoser of PC demoscene to use his tunes
00:15 RealBadAngel he said ok
00:15 hmmmm yes, I read all of what you said last night
00:15 hmmmm and I can't help but repeat the same counter arguments
00:15 RealBadAngel but you just refused it
00:15 hmmmm because they are indeed valid, imo
00:15 RealBadAngel this case
00:15 hmmmm i didn't even need to tell you no
00:15 hmmmm other people did
00:15 RealBadAngel i felt offended too
00:16 RealBadAngel because im a demoscene coder too
00:16 hmmmm feelings are a personal matter... this is minetest
00:16 Taoki I think we all need better communication to avoid such situations, for one thing.
00:16 RealBadAngel you have spit into my face
00:16 hmmmm the communication is perfect
00:16 hmmmm RBA just wants and gets mad if he does not get
00:16 RealBadAngel thats why im leaving
00:16 hmmmm RealBadAngel
00:16 RealBadAngel i was patient for a year
00:17 hmmmm I don't have qualms about you leaving, but I would suggest you contribute to minetest classic instead
00:17 VanessaE hmmmm: there is one of those arguments from last night that is NOT valid:  that 1.5 MB worth of extra content is somehow excessive.  This is 2015, most people have good enough bandwidth to handle that (it's what, 10 seconds for the slowest of slow DSL's?)
00:17 Taoki hmmmm: Not really. Devs argue sometimes, the atmosphere here hasn't always been that great. I can now see how that risks ruining the project really.
00:17 hmmmm it's probably a better fit of a project for your own style
00:17 VanessaE and it's not as though *clients* have to download that extra data from a server.  they'll already have it as part of their base install.
00:17 RealBadAngel wait a second
00:17 RealBadAngel whos AV maintainer?
00:18 RealBadAngel theres just one to blame for
00:18 hmmmm VanessaE:  okay, point well made, but explain why this cannot be part of minetest_game instead
00:19 VanessaE hmmmm: because the idea here is for between-games music, i.e. when nothing at all is selected at the main menu.
00:19 RealBadAngel because each game can carry own tunes
00:19 VanessaE or when waiting to connect to a server for example.
00:19 RealBadAngel im the only dumb person here?
00:19 hmmmm so why can't there be a mechanism to fall back onto another game's bundled music
00:19 RealBadAngel rotfl
00:19 hmmmm plenty of things rely on minetest_game already
00:20 VanessaE hmmmm: I was going to suggest exactly that, actually.
00:20 hmmmm right
00:20 VanessaE however,
00:20 VanessaE some kind of minimal tune for the main menu should still be provided.
00:20 RealBadAngel anwyay, hmmmm youre free to merge it
00:20 VanessaE (I mean so that the "fallback" doesn't become "the main" tune)
00:20 hmmmm eh
00:20 RealBadAngel you do have my aprroval and Peter Hajba, the composer
00:21 hmmmm I'm not totally convinced on the need for music to begin with
00:21 RealBadAngel sure, turn on tv
00:21 hmmmm if this feature were added, I personally wouldn't ever use it
00:21 RealBadAngel are you deaf?
00:21 VanessaE hmmmm: the need is there as a player perception issue.  The vast majority of games have at least some kind of basic music running in their main menu.
00:22 Taoki hmmmm: Some default main menu music for minetest_game might be okay. Personally I'm interested for support for other games to do it, but really MTG could too.
00:22 VanessaE and to the average user, Minetest is a game, not an engine.
00:22 hmmmm so why can't we have some kind of "tap" sound when a user clicks on a button
00:22 hmmmm so they know it's working
00:22 Taoki Especially becaiuse it's local. The music file doesn't need to be networked, which causes most of the slowness.
00:22 RealBadAngel its a video game production
00:22 Taoki That would be good too!
00:22 RealBadAngel aviable on just a one click
00:22 VanessaE hmmmm: because that only gives the perception of feedback, not "first impression: this is a good game".
00:22 RealBadAngel tap even
00:23 RealBadAngel its fucking 21st century
00:23 VanessaE that's really the point main-menu-no-adventure-selected-yet music
00:23 RealBadAngel and its deaf production
00:23 hmmmm VanessaE:  so how about openarena?
00:23 VanessaE give the player a good first impression of the game they've just launched.
00:23 VanessaE hmmmm: touché
00:23 RealBadAngel you guys are just nuts to not see and understand it
00:23 VanessaE nevertheless, even OA has music once you're in a game
00:23 VanessaE ominous though it may be
00:24 hmmmm yeah and servers can already do that today
00:24 VanessaE yes, but if a server does it, it has to send all that data to every client.
00:24 RealBadAngel anyway, thats not my problem anymore
00:24 VanessaE which will drive server bandwidth counts up and make things slower for players.
00:24 hmmmm see
00:24 RealBadAngel jesus
00:24 RealBadAngel nuts
00:24 hmmmm I have nothing against music
00:24 hmmmm but don't make it a basic part of the core
00:24 hmmmm that's such a per-game thing
00:24 * Taoki worries for who will manage the minimap and shaders code for Minetest now :(
00:25 RealBadAngel just PUT THE FUCKIN FILE IN SOUNDS FOLDER
00:25 VanessaE bandwidth for ME is a non-issue, I have like 10TB a month allowed on my servers, but imagine the average server owner who runs the game from, let's say, a cheap VPS that only gives them 50GB a month or something
00:25 hmmmm honestly I am rpobably going to end up doing that, taoki
00:25 Taoki ok
00:25 hmmmm as a part of client side modding
00:25 RealBadAngel server doesnt have to sent it
00:25 hmmmm anyway
00:26 hmmmm for a discussion such as this one with so many wildly varying opinions, i can't help but think that a poll isn't more appropriate
00:26 VanessaE hmmmm: what RBA is trying to say with that outburst is that the feature is already supported in the core and has been for a long time now.  All that is necessary to enable it, literally, is to supply the necessary ogg file.
00:26 RealBadAngel if sound file is found locally its just used
00:26 hmmmm VanessaE:  celeron said that PR is broken somehow
00:26 VanessaE define "somehow"?
00:26 RealBadAngel R O T F L
00:26 hmmmm i dunno i'm reading the logs
00:26 VanessaE I think c55 is referring to another piece of code/PR?
00:27 hmmmm he's referring to [WIP] Main menu music
00:27 RealBadAngel i just provided media file
00:27 hmmmm 1651
00:27 RealBadAngel thats about EXTRA functionality
00:27 hmmmm 'altough it breaks some functionality in guiEngine.cpp which should be fixed before that is merged, if it will be'
00:27 RealBadAngel and games able to have own tunes
00:28 VanessaE so, here's my thinking:  supply a little 60-120s main menu media file, let it play, and when the user clicks on a game, either cross-fade into whatever is supplied with the clicked-on game=, or just keep the tune playing if there is nothing at all.
00:28 RealBadAngel jesus, this code is older than some of the dinosaurs
00:28 hmmmm make a forum poll on it
00:28 RealBadAngel i wont
00:28 RealBadAngel im not mt dev anymore
00:28 hmmmm look i get it
00:29 hmmmm for somebody who's 42 you're acting awfully immature about this whole thing
00:29 Taoki hmmmm: Sadly, I must agree there. Hope RBA won't hate me for saying it.
00:29 RealBadAngel waiting a yr for a reaction is pretty long time
00:30 VanessaE RBA may be overreacting a bit, but a year indeed is WAY too long to go for something this simple (relatively speaking)
00:30 Taoki I'd rather not lie: The way RBA reacted is mostly what upset me today. Even if I think I actually agree with almost all his points.
00:30 RealBadAngel i had a vision of what i was doing
00:30 hmmmm maybe the reason why it wasn't merged for so long is because it's controversial
00:30 RealBadAngel you have all pissed on me
00:31 Taoki VanessaE: I think he should apologize at least for saying that everyone in the Minetest credits list is a lunatic. I'm also on there BTW... of course I don't mind that implying me, but it's just an idea and principle for me.
00:31 hmmmm if it were brought up as a topic of discussion to me, personally, what i would do is add it (provided it didn't force music as part of the core)
00:31 RealBadAngel controversial is video game without a music
00:31 VanessaE Taoki: he's quoting the main website :)
00:31 hmmmm since it seems to be an enhancement
00:31 Taoki I uderstand RBA felt underconsidered too, however.
00:31 Taoki Which is one reason why I said communication might have not been the best.
00:31 hmmmm there's a clear difference between an added feature/enhancement and a stylistic choice
00:31 hmmmm minetest_game is the place where those stylistic choices go into
00:32 VanessaE hmmmm: the problem is that minetest_game is not always available
00:32 RealBadAngel minetest game can have own music
00:32 VanessaE (though in theory, it *should* be)
00:32 RealBadAngel as each game
00:32 RealBadAngel just update the pr. its simple lua
00:33 Taoki Anyway, if there's a vote, I say include that music file. I don't see it doing any harm.
00:33 hmmmm i'd rather take a closer look at what celeron is talking about before merging something that breaks other functionality
00:33 RealBadAngel lol
00:33 RealBadAngel he found another way to refuse
00:33 hmmmm and not during a feature freeze either
00:33 RealBadAngel im fed up with his shit
00:34 VanessaE I don't advocate merging it during freeze.
00:34 hmmmm so just to be clear:
00:34 hmmmm i approve of pr 1651 if...
00:34 hmmmm - the music file is removed
00:35 hmmmm - the functionality is verified to be working
00:35 hmmmm the critical mass of users or developers or whoever might like the music being right in the core
00:35 hmmmm that's up to them
00:35 hmmmm i'm not going to lie and suddenly say that i want it all of a sudden when i don't
00:36 hmmmm it's the community's choice as a whole, though
00:36 VanessaE hmmmm: so you're basically saying "let's make the code work first and decide on the style of its output, if any, later".
00:36 hmmmm yes basically
00:36 RealBadAngel im not going thiis way
00:36 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  well it doesn't matter, does it?  because you're not a dev any longer
00:37 RealBadAngel ofc
00:37 RealBadAngel for the record
00:37 VanessaE I can't say I disagree with that, with the proviso that if there's a clear consensus on a main menu tune or at least a style thereof, it be added in a separate commit later.
00:38 RealBadAngel at august 18th, Peter Hajba member of Future Crew, alllowed minetest to use his tunes
00:39 hmmmm yes we get it we get it
00:39 RealBadAngel year was 2014
00:39 hmmmm can we move onto another topic already?
00:39 RealBadAngel now i feel offended
00:40 RealBadAngel and he will propably feel the same
00:40 RealBadAngel if some1 will let him know
00:41 RealBadAngel no, we cant move onto another topic
00:41 RealBadAngel this one is already too old
00:43 hmmmm it's not productive to stay on this topic.  we already defined our action items.
00:43 RealBadAngel yes
00:43 RealBadAngel i left and said goodbye
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00:45 Taoki :/
00:45 RealBadAngel and minetest is not allowed to use "Mercury Rain" anymore
00:45 RealBadAngel i get that approval and i am deciding which fork will get it
00:46 RealBadAngel if you have pissed on a legend dont be suprised if some1 will piss on you
00:51 RealBadAngel demoscene was born propably before you hmmm
00:52 RealBadAngel im with all those guys, including Skaven
00:52 RealBadAngel so, begone
00:54 VanessaE O_o
00:56 * Taoki sighs
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01:05 hmmmm lol
01:05 hmmmm he makes it sound like a demoscene group is the mafia
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01:08 Taoki This is being taken way, way too personally...
01:09 RealBadAngel mafia?
01:09 RealBadAngel hehhe, maybe
01:10 RealBadAngel folks are knowing each others
01:10 RealBadAngel going on meetings
01:11 RealBadAngel so you know the other coders for like 20yrs or more
01:12 RealBadAngel you can ask for everything and excuse everting
01:21 hmmmm well, we already explained our position.  basically RBA wants us to unilaterally agree that music will be add it, and add it, or else he's going to hang around here and taunt us until we do
01:21 hmmmm i already explained the route that must be taken in order to see if it will be added or not
01:21 hmmmm there's nothing more to say about this really
01:22 hmmmm s/will be add it/will be added/ whoops
01:23 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you dont get it
01:23 RealBadAngel im not "here" anymore to taunt you
01:24 RealBadAngel i am just kind to let u know whats going on
01:25 RealBadAngel if there will be some problems, or patches needed minetest can get them
01:25 RealBadAngel also i can be of help
01:27 Taoki RealBadAngel: I'm mostly concerned about minimap and shader code. They're your work, and it might be harder for others to maintain them. If you can't develop patches for them in core Minetest any more, this might harm the project a lot.
01:27 Taoki I think and hope that's not something you wish to do.
01:28 RealBadAngel as i said, mt can use my patches
01:29 Taoki Can you still create pull requests? I mean if both core Minetest and your fork are on Github, it should hopefully be easy to exchange wanted updates on each end.
01:29 RealBadAngel theres a shitload of work for shaders upcoming
01:29 RealBadAngel our fork is on git compatible site
01:29 hmmmm our?
01:30 RealBadAngel so you can exchange patches
01:30 Taoki Ok. As long as they make it in core minetest as well, that's good.
01:30 RealBadAngel hmmm just woke up ;)
01:30 RealBadAngel yes, our
01:30 Taoki Perhaps trying to do with your own fork might be a good idea, if you feel it gives you more freedom.
01:30 Taoki Ultimately, it and Minetest will probably exchange most features and changes.
01:31 hmmmm who else is on board with your fork, RBA?
01:31 RealBadAngel c55? lol
01:32 RealBadAngel just jokin
01:35 RealBadAngel hmmmm,  if they feel like in mood to let you know they propably will
01:36 Taoki I just hope the fork has a well set direction and purpose. I... do question at this moment whether you want to fork as a way of taking revenge on c55 and other developers.
01:37 Taoki Which of course would be your right all as much... just probably not as helpful.
01:37 Taoki Realistically speaking, things would be a lot better if everyone could continue down one project... but I guess that matters little now.
01:40 RealBadAngel i had my own vision
01:41 Taoki ok
01:41 Taoki Need to go now. Later, see everyone tomorrow
01:41 RealBadAngel just got tired pissing on my head constantl y
01:42 RealBadAngel cya
01:42 RealBadAngel i also have  lotsa PRs to push tomorrow
01:43 RealBadAngel cya
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04:28 est31 joined #minetest-dev
04:28 est31 how could ever a version of minetest be released with mmdb?
04:36 kaeza I just noticed that the toggling the "double tap space to toggle fly" checkbox in the in-game key config dialog is ignored
04:37 kaeza togglign "use = descend" works, and both also work from the main menu
04:38 hmmmm blatantly ignored settings like that is a blocker for sure
04:39 hmmmm anyway who takes care of the website
04:39 hmmmm is it sfan or somebody else??
04:39 est31 I think celeron55 hosts that domain.
04:39 hmmmm i don't think he does
04:40 est31 kaeza, can you file a bug at github?
04:40 hmmmm last i checked it was xyz and he transferred it to somebody else
04:40 est31 hmmmm, https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611
04:40 kaeza est31, sure
04:40 hmmmm ahh
04:40 hmmmm okay this is good
04:41 hmmmm erm est that post is from the year 2011
04:42 hmmmm if celeron did really host the forums, we'd be okay because he's been semi-active lately
04:42 hmmmm whereas sfan, not so much
04:42 hmmmm so the mmdb by definition relies on an outside source
04:42 est31 Forum is now hosted by celeron55 (report issues here)
04:42 est31 by celeron55 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:39
04:43 hmmmm we can't REMOVE mmdb, if anything maybe hide the tab if the server cannot be contacted
04:43 hmmmm oh whoops..
04:43 hmmmm I read the "Joined" date
04:47 est31 there is a difference between network problems, and total not-hosting of the page.
04:47 est31 but yeah, perhaps better to hide the button "online mod repository"
04:49 hmmmm or why not just have text that says
04:49 hmmmm "Whoops!  It seems like the MMDB is currently down.  Sit tight!" or something to that effect
04:49 hmmmm better than a friggin "AsyncWorkerError: HTTP request returned error code 404"
04:50 * est31 remembers those vimeo "aww fiddlesticks" you got in the past if you didn't have flash, nor h264 html5 support
04:50 est31 you still get them today
04:50 est31 hmmmm, yes, if there is an error shown in the gui,, its ok
04:51 hmmmm it's trendy to make a goofy 404 error page instead of the serious business "not found"
04:51 est31 most people just dont see the debug.txt
04:51 hmmmm on the web interface to the thing I work on for work we have a sad puppy for internal server errors
04:51 hmmmm lol
04:52 est31 zaroo bugs found :)
04:52 hmmmm so just code that up really quick and then I have to fix up delete_area
04:52 hmmmm then we should be okay to release
04:53 * hmmmm crosses fingers
04:53 hmmmm I think we should release like 1 day after we're done with all the blockers instead of waiting out the full 2 extended weeks
04:57 est31 we should wait, for the case 3011 is indeed an engine fault
04:58 hmmmm you know what, I don't think it is
04:59 hmmmm I think what could be happening is that an errant mod goes crazy and accidentally deletes members from the global namespace
04:59 est31 also, we have to wait for mtgame to make a release tag.
05:00 hmmmm then some kind of runtime error happens soon after (of course) and then debug.traceback() has a runtime error when a) debug can't be accessed, b). traceback can't be accessed, or c). any one of the misc. functions it internally uses can't be accessed
05:00 est31 I've learned that the hard way
05:07 hmmmm btw why haven't you merged 3033 yet
05:08 hmmmm well celeron left a comment saying that he'd rather you use g_config->getS32 instead of getFloat
05:10 hmmmm oh by the way est, I looked at the PcgRandom comment a bit better and it is correct, but it demonstrates the math without the divmod optimization
05:10 hmmmm so the comment and the implementation is not 1 to 1
05:11 est31 ok
05:12 est31 getS32 isn't better than getFloat either, no?
05:12 est31 its all below 2^52, so everything goes well precision wise
05:13 hmmmm the max exponent on a float is 2^37
05:13 hmmmm 37 i mean
05:13 hmmmm it's just hacky to use a float where the thing you're using is actually an integer
05:14 est31 modern cpus have fast floats
05:15 hmmmm float to int conversion is very slow
05:16 est31 well its not important at all
05:16 est31 settings are slow already
05:17 est31 i think it takes 10 microseconds to request a key from the settings map
05:17 est31 but i might be weong
05:17 est31 wrong*
05:17 est31 is there no __CLASSNAME__ macro?
05:18 est31 typeid(*this).name()
05:18 est31 too long to be worth it
05:19 hmmmm i don't think that's a static expression
05:19 hmmmm it'd be evaluated on runtime, but even more, it'd force the compiler to use rtti
05:19 est31 this is hardly static
05:20 est31 I see
05:31 sfan5 <hmmmm> whereas sfan, not so much
05:31 sfan5 me not really doing any dev work (except reviewing PRs) is nothing new
05:32 sfan5 also i have been "active" at making minetest builds and maintaining servers.minetest.net
05:36 hmmmm oh
05:36 hmmmm i mean i haven't seen you around lately
05:37 hmmmm in any case, are you able to fix forums.minetest.net/mmdb?
05:37 sfan5 no, c55 hosts that
05:38 sfan5 also i don't really have that much of an idea how mmdb works
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05:51 est31 hmmmm, turns out the texture trick doesnt work
05:52 hmmmm alright then
05:57 est31 I'll prepare a PR then
06:02 est31 hrrmm, our server count is much larger than our player count
06:02 est31 which is good :)
06:23 hmmmm it is?
06:23 hmmmm anyway
06:23 hmmmm est, you know what you have to do to add a hud flag?
06:23 hmmmm i realize that minimap isn't officially part of the hud but it would be cleanest just to use that interface anyway
06:24 hmmmm and set VolatileRunFlags::show_minimap based on the presense of that flag
06:25 est31 hud flags are inflexible
06:25 hmmmm so add a brand new packet why don't you
06:25 est31 well yes one can add all the info as flags for the hug
06:25 est31 hud*
06:25 est31 every bit one flag
06:25 est31 just then you'll need lots of bits
06:26 est31 which means lots of flags
06:26 hmmmm i thought this was just being turned on/off
06:26 est31 thats the blocker part of the issue
06:26 est31 but only because its a blocker doesnt allow us to hack a solution
06:26 est31 instead of doing it properly
06:27 hmmmm we're in a feature freeze
06:27 est31 the problem with adding this as hud flag is that we'll have to support that hack for eternity
06:28 est31 and if people ask why, we'll have to explain that back in 2015 we had a feature freeze
06:28 hmmmm not necessarily
06:28 hmmmm i think it could be implemented as a hud item later on
06:28 est31 and rather did a quick hack than solving it properly
06:28 hmmmm it's better than the alternative (making a new set of packets for a single feature)
06:29 est31 the key press is instantly
06:29 est31 it should not rely on lag
06:29 hmmmm ?
06:29 est31 and if you allow mods to access the f9 key
06:29 est31 then you open the door for even more problems
06:29 hmmmm erm
06:29 est31 they'll code sprint under that key
06:29 est31 just because
06:29 hmmmm I don't get what you mean at all
06:29 est31 and it will be totally laggy
06:30 hmmmm my idea was to add HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE
06:30 est31 hmmmm, you suggest the server turns minimap on/off?
06:30 hmmmm yes isn't that what you wanted??
06:30 est31 the client sends whether there is a keypress
06:30 est31 and the server decides
06:30 est31 thats your solution, no?
06:30 hmmmm erm no
06:30 hmmmm that isn't my solution at all
06:31 hmmmm i have no idea how you interpreted my words that way
06:31 hmmmm here is my idea:
06:31 hmmmm in l_object.cpp, add HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE to es_HudElementType, add it to l_set_flags and l_get_flags
06:32 kahrl <est13> [...] we'll have to support that hack for eternity
06:32 kahrl couldn't we just mark it as // EXPERIMENTAL now and later deprecate it?
06:32 hmmmm then in game.cpp just set flags.show_minimap = !!(localplayer->hud_flags & HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE);
06:33 hmmmm i think that's a 10 line change
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06:33 hmmmm oh of course you'd also have to add a check when F9 is pressed, if hud_flags & HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE == 0, then the server must have disabled it
06:34 hmmmm and so change the message to
06:34 hmmmm "This server has disabled the minimap."
06:34 hmmmm in the amount of time it took me to explain this I could've coded it by now
06:34 hmmmm :|
06:34 est31 we should make it default on, too, IMO.
06:35 hmmmm it is default on
06:35 est31 so HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_DISABLED
06:35 hmmmm no
06:35 hmmmm stop it
06:35 hmmmm you make it default on by setting HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE in the Hud ctor
06:35 hmmmm look at the way all the other HUD things are done already
06:35 est31 but it only works on new servers
06:35 hmmmm don't reinvent things
06:35 est31 I dont reinvent anything
06:35 est31 I just say
06:35 est31 if its sent by the server
06:36 est31 then we have no way to find out whether its default off
06:36 est31 err
06:36 est31 we have no way to find out whether the server is onld
06:36 est31 old*
06:36 est31 or has disabled the feature
06:37 est31 and, no we dont raise protocol version just because of this
06:37 kahrl in Client::handleCommand_HudSetFlags we do hud_flags &= ~mask and hud_flags |= flags
06:37 kahrl so if the server doesn't send a flag it is unchanged
06:39 est31 I see
06:39 est31 ok then
06:39 est31 still, it should be HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_ENABLED rather
06:39 est31 not _VISIBLE
06:39 kahrl yeah I like that better
06:40 hmmmm this only controls the minimap visibility, though.
06:40 hmmmm you can't control if the client had initialized with the mapper
06:40 hmmmm besides, it's the same as all the other hud items
06:40 est31 the visibility is controlled by the client
06:40 hmmmm follow the pattern
06:40 est31 the other hud items are always shown
06:41 est31 except if you turn off the whole hud
06:41 hmmmm yeah
06:41 est31 but you can't say "only show me the inventory bar" on the client
06:41 hmmmm this is something that can be totally fixed in the next version when we would like to expand upon it
06:42 hmmmm as it stands right now, the minimap not being visible is a specific MinimapMode
06:42 hmmmm whereas HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE would control game.cpp's flags.draw_minimap
06:43 hmmmm so in order to see the minimap the user has to:
06:43 hmmmm - have the MinimapMode in a mode other than MINIMAP_MODE_OFF
06:43 hmmmm - have HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE set
06:43 hmmmm if either one of those conditions are false, then the minimap isn't shown to the user
06:44 hmmmm the first one is controlled by the client,
06:44 hmmmm the second one is controlled by the server
06:44 est31 it should put MinimapMode to force  MINIMAP_MODE_OFF on login
06:44 est31 if it sees HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE
06:44 est31 to be not set
06:44 hmmmm sure, it can do that
06:44 hmmmm not necessarily on login
06:44 hmmmm stop putting game logic in weird places
06:44 est31 well, check it at every server step then
06:44 est31 err client
06:45 hmmmm on client draw
06:45 est31 players will love how fast it is
06:45 hmmmm there are obvious solutions to each of these objections of yours if you were to think about it for longer than 5 seconds
06:45 hmmmm stop being so negative
06:47 est31 the root problem is i think that localplayer has no notifications if hud_flags change
06:47 est31 notification*
06:47 est31 changes*
06:47 est31 it was perfectly fine for the other hud elements
06:47 est31 but minimap is special
06:47 hmmmm i think it's perfectly fine as well
06:47 est31 we have to change the minimap mode if its turned off
06:47 hmmmm there is no actual penalty to setting the minimap mode
06:48 est31 well, code it, and then lets talk again
07:01 RealBadAngel btw, last used minimap mode shall be saved and restored imho
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07:19 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/ea88855ecef65e88c3aa92bbf5d75e2d6cb5b719
07:21 hmmmm and then after the release we'll change the game->mapper interface to be hud->mapper
07:22 hmmmm so you can do all the same things with a minimap that you can with the statbar, healthbar, etc.
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08:00 est31 hmmmm, commented on your commit
08:00 est31 otherwise its good
08:01 est31 but please address the remarks before merging
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08:02 est31 but I wonder where the mask gets changed
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08:04 est31 ah I see how it works
08:04 est31 sorry for being a bit rude btw
08:05 hmmmm you seem like you're mad at something
08:05 hmmmm just fyi
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08:12 est31 I'll try to be more kind
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08:40 est31 kaeza, can you double tap jump perhaps a bit faster?
08:40 est31 does that work?
08:40 est31 I can't reproduce #3043
08:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3043 -- In-game key configuration dialog ignores "double tap space to toggle fly".
08:40 est31 the limit is 0.2 seconds
08:42 kaeza nope, it ignores the setting completely
08:43 kaeza i.e. if I disable it and click 'Save' I can still double tap
08:43 est31 ahh
08:43 est31 and if you restart?
08:43 kaeza it works if I restart, yes
08:44 est31 then I'll make the cache update
08:44 est31 that should work
08:44 est31 we'll perhaps get faster settings after 0.4.13
08:44 est31 but right now we have to cache them
08:44 est31 and users think the setting is ignored
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08:55 kilbith so i tested client_mapblock_limit = 10 and the RAM is well restrained now
08:55 kilbith thanks a million, est31
08:55 est31 10 is a bit low
08:56 est31 but you can set it as you want :)
08:56 kilbith i prefer don't reach over 1 GB of RAM
08:56 kilbith simple, light and low-ressource
08:57 est31 I don't think a mapblock takes 1 MB RAM
08:58 est31 it would take at least 500 kb, if you get more than 1 GB ram with client_mapblock_limit = 1000
08:58 kilbith oops, i was watching at the overall OS consumption
08:58 kilbith nvm then
08:59 est31 happy time playing around kilbith :)
09:00 Calinou I set my view range to 256, and don't want to be restricted by that limit :)
09:00 kilbith minetest sticks under <350 MB
09:01 kilbith not as strict as MC, but good enough
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10:07 est31 #3044
10:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3044 -- game.cpp: Update cached settings by est31
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10:28 est31 interesting, our launchpad builds fail on 15.10
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10:53 rubenwardy #3011
10:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- Periodic "Lua: error in error handling" crashes
10:54 rubenwardy I know how mmdb works and I am a developer for it
10:55 rubenwardy Well, contributor with write access
10:55 est31 can you get it back up?
10:55 rubenwardy no, celeron55 has to do that
10:55 rubenwardy there's documentation in the readme
10:56 rubenwardy It's an unrealistic project as it requires every mod to be registered. Minetest-Bower combined with MTPM Lists is much better as it fetches from the forum.
10:56 rubenwardy It also is a pain to update mods on
10:56 rubenwardy an absolute pain
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10:57 est31 rubenwardy, agree.
10:57 est31 so you vote for removing the button?
10:57 rubenwardy (MTPM Lists is a forum parser)
10:57 rubenwardy I don't know, one day it could be made better
10:57 est31 well, as we have sandboxing, we can finally install untrusted mods
10:57 est31 yaay
10:58 est31 for that we have to turn sandboxing on by default
10:58 est31 but all these things are functional changes
11:17 T4im does it supply a secured implementation for require(), btw.? or did that end up blocked now
11:18 rubenwardy T4im, minetest.request_insecure_environment() is the only way
11:19 T4im rubenwardy: I know the workaround, I'm talking about a fix
11:19 T4im ;)
11:19 T4im we talked about that a while ago, just wondered if that was dropped or added
11:22 RealBadAngel bower is an excellent thingy
11:22 RealBadAngel i just fucking love it
11:23 RealBadAngel hail cornerote for it
11:23 T4im last time I checked bower installed dependencies without checking signatures of the installments for any form of injection/manipulation
11:24 T4im hope they fixed that by now :(
11:26 T4im oh wait, you're talking different bower, my bad
11:29 est31 wb T4im :)
11:29 T4im hey est31 :)
11:30 est31 ShadowNinja has supplied a require() impl, but it didnt get merged
11:30 est31 because replicating all the properties of the function is very hard and complicated
11:31 T4im oh ok
11:33 est31 also, we have depends.txt, we dont need require
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11:34 T4im require can be helpful within a mod, or if you still remember mtt when including external libraries that make use of it (that otherwise would go through mod_security, if it weren't for the require)
11:36 kilbith est31: something i don't understand with mapblocks limit, you set the limit to 1000 (1000*16 nodes = half of the map)
11:36 est31 half of the map?
11:36 kilbith but before you needed less than that for overwhelming your RAM
11:36 kilbith with 4 GB of RAM
11:36 kilbith yes, a mapblock = 16^3 nodes
11:37 kilbith 1000 mapblocks = 16000^3 nodes
11:37 est31 no
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11:37 est31 1000 mapblocks == 1000 * (16^3) nodes
11:37 est31 1000 * (16^3) != (1000 * 16)^3
11:38 kilbith this is what i'm saying
11:38 T4im I think it's also a radius, so you have 1000 into each direction from the center, don't you?
11:38 kilbith you allow caching half of the map
11:38 kilbith it's still way too much
11:38 est31 no
11:38 est31 the map is much more
11:39 est31 1000 mapblocks, thats even less than a mapgen chunk
11:39 kilbith 31000/16 = ~1950 nodes
11:39 kilbith oops
11:39 kilbith ~1950 mapblocks
11:41 est31 kilbith, so you say a cubic meter of water has only 10 liters, because one liter is 10 cm ^3 ?
11:41 T4im (62k^3)/16 = ~1.48 * 10^13
11:41 T4im 1.49*
11:42 kilbith when i wrote "31000/16" it means in all dirs
11:44 kilbith so yeah, there around 1950 mapblocks on the map
11:45 kilbith 31000*31000*31000 nodes = 2.9791e+13 nodes
11:45 kilbith 1937*16 * 1937*16 * 1937*16 = 2.9791e+13 nodes
11:46 est31 31000 / 16 * 31000 / 16 * 31000/16 = 7273193359
11:46 est31 thats how many mapblocks exist on the map
11:48 kilbith it's correct
11:48 kilbith 7273193359*(16*16*16) = 2.9791e+13 nodes
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11:51 kilbith well, miscalculation then sorry
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11:57 T4im 58185546875 *
11:58 T4im you only described on of 8 quadrants
11:58 T4im one*
11:58 T4im and I misscalculated too up there by forgetting the cube in the mapblocksize :D
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12:31 amadin can i speak with developer who added redis support to server?
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14:10 paramat nore sfan5 game#620 is ready to go please can you review?
14:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/620 -- Flowers: Add sporeless mushrooms by paramat
14:17 paramat 1000 mapblocks is 1000/125 = 8 = 2^3 mapchunks, a really small volume
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14:27 Wayward_One The latest git keeps crashing without an error message for me
14:27 Wayward_One Tried after a git pull and a fresh clone
14:29 Wayward_One Also, debug.txt is empty
14:33 VanessaE nothing at all on the console?
14:33 rubenwardy gdb?
14:34 VanessaE can you build in debug mode and get a gdb backtrace?
14:34 VanessaE damn it, ninja's
14:34 VanessaE 'd*
14:34 Wayward_One Trying with the console now
14:34 Wayward_One So far, it's only when joining a server
14:34 rubenwardy what to do...
14:35 VanessaE what the...
14:35 VanessaE it doesn't crash for me, but there's ZERO console output now
14:35 Wayward_One Hmm, seg fault for me
14:35 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$ minetest
14:35 VanessaE <let it sit for a bit on the server, then quit>
14:36 VanessaE AL lib: (WW) FreeDevice: (0x3517390) Deleting 51 Buffer(s)
14:36 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$
14:36 VanessaE this is bad.
14:36 rubenwardy explicitly set log level?
14:37 VanessaE my debug.txt has only this:
14:37 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/GJwkJTvB
14:39 VanessaE (however I can hit that URL just fine in a browser)
14:39 rubenwardy doesn't happen to me
14:40 VanessaE Wayward_One: file an issue.  include my paste and comments
14:40 VanessaE (nearly no console output and debug.txt is bad)
14:40 Wayward_One Will do
14:41 VanessaE I mean include my paste/comments secondary to your experience, of course :)
14:41 VanessaE are you able to sign onto SC-Skyblock?
14:41 VanessaE that's where I was when I tried it.
14:42 Wayward_One Hmm, I'll try
14:42 VanessaE ("skyblock server" in the public list, stormchaser3000.noip.me:30001)
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14:43 Wayward_One Yep, seg fault again
14:44 VanessaE ok.
14:45 rubenwardy Wayward_One, use gdb to find the origin :P bt full
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14:59 kilbith i confirm the Wayward_One report and i caught a gdb trace on joining a server
14:59 kilbith here it is : http://pastie.org/10348657
14:59 kilbith est31, if you read me
15:00 Wayward_One https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3047
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15:21 rubenwardy kilbith, bt full ?
15:21 celeron55 i tried this, and reproduced it, but once i ran it in gdb the crash disappeared
15:22 celeron55 hmm i think i just got this when running in valgrind
15:22 celeron55 i mean, memcheck
15:23 celeron55 http://fpaste.org/254808/94793871/
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15:29 est31 ill look @ the regression later
15:29 est31 busy atm
15:31 celeron55 it's probably caused by this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a8e​238ed06ee8285ed4459e9deda3117419837f6?diff=unif​ied#diff-ab005ad9757130721ffb66a09833090aR1502
15:32 celeron55 when mapblock_queue is empty
15:32 celeron55 if i am not mistaken
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15:41 celeron55 can someone test this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/3047#issuecomment-130732141
15:42 celeron55 (i can't trust my tests in a timing-related issue like this)
15:44 celeron55 (or, well it's probably right, but i won't push it without confirmation)
15:50 Amaz celeron55, it seems to work for me.
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15:58 est31 celeron55, even if it doesnt fix the bug, it probably has to be done
15:58 est31 but most likely it will fix the bug
15:59 est31 I have tested my patch
15:59 est31 but might have missed setting the timeout back to default
15:59 est31 so I've tested it so that there is always an element with mapblock_queue.top().block->getUsageTimer() > unload_timeout
15:59 est31 before the end
16:01 est31 +1
16:04 celeron55 pushed
16:05 celeron55 it was actually a bit more than half a year since my previous commit... it sure felt like it too
16:05 celeron55 no, actually a bit less; well whatever
16:07 celeron55 well, i went ahead and closed the issue; it's highly likely that this was the fix
16:08 est31 the crash was most likely in the top method
16:08 est31 it makes very much sense
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16:10 celeron55 the reason why people didn't catch that earlier was probably that it doesn't occur on fast development setups; instead it occurred on slow connections and laggy servers
16:10 celeron55 i guess a fast server tends to push a block to the client before the client runs that code... at least that would make sense
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16:11 VanessaE no negative effect here but console output is still (nearly) dead
16:11 VanessaE (not that your commit had anything to do with that)
16:12 est31 I've explained the reason I didnt catch it above
16:12 est31 also I've only tested singleplayer
16:13 Wayward_One Works for me as well
16:19 BlockMen Do we release a 2nd RC?
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16:22 VanessaE I think paramat has a mushrooms change to go into mt_game, might want to wait for that
16:26 BlockMen VanessaE, k
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16:29 BlockMen could someone test #3041? it should fix all those nodebox-sneaking issues
16:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3041 -- Fix sneaking (fixes #329 and #665) by BlockMen
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16:31 VanessaE shouldn't the player only rise to the top of the collision box they're standing in/on?  rather than just whatever's highest in the whole node?
16:32 est31 thats what I've said too
16:32 est31 take the height at the border
16:32 BlockMen VanessaE, yes. it actually does now. havent updated the desc
16:32 VanessaE oh ok.
16:32 VanessaE you should do that :P
16:33 BlockMen well, at least it worked now when i tested it today
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17:40 est31 Pushing #3044 in 10 minutes if nobody objects
17:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3044 -- game.cpp: Update cached settings by est31
17:40 est31 its fairly trivial
17:40 est31 just lots of code copy
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17:47 paramat nore sfan5 please can i push game#620 ?
17:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/620 -- Flowers: Add sporeless mushrooms by paramat
17:47 est31 why mapgen mushrooms?
17:48 est31 if something grows from the spores, you get the "mapgen" mushrooms too, no?
17:48 nore same question
17:48 nore perhaps mushroom_with_spores_
17:49 nore also, it should have not_in_creative_inventory = 1 in groups
17:49 paramat yes mushrooms growing from spores will be 'mapgen' mushrooms, hm
17:49 paramat i was trying to find a reasonable name, 'unpicked' 'spored' ?
17:50 est31 "with spores" ?
17:50 paramat sure which should be in creative inventory?
17:50 kahrl you could also use the same content id for both but a different param2
17:51 est31 what if we want to make them look differently?
17:51 nore paramat: the one that you can pick in normal gameplay, i.e. the sporeless should be the one in creative inventory
17:51 kahrl then not :)
17:51 est31 also, then the description would then need to be in the meta
17:51 nore kahrl: mushrooms are plantlike
17:51 est31 if it differs between spores and spored
17:52 est31 and it does
17:52 nore so I guess param2 would rotate them
17:52 paramat nore agreed
17:52 kahrl nore, oh yeah
17:53 kahrl it's really confusing that those have paramtype2 = "none" yet the engine still cares about param2
17:53 nore even in paramtype2 is none ?
17:53 kahrl yeah, pretty sure
17:54 nore hm...
17:54 est31 cares in which sense?
17:54 nore I thought there was a plantlike paramtype2, but I must have confused with something else
17:54 kahrl est31: rotation angle
17:54 est31 thats bad
17:55 paramat nore sfan5 also game#622 is nearly ready, just a final tweak to the texture to do
17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/622 -- Default: New grass textures, new footsteps overlay texture WIP by paramat
17:55 est31 I would agree that it stores the param2 in the map, so it doesnt actively ignore it
17:55 est31 but using it for rotation is wrong IMO
17:55 est31 but changing that should be done after the release
17:55 sfan5 game#622 looks goode paramat
17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/622 -- Default: New grass textures, new footsteps overlay texture WIP by paramat
17:55 sfan5 i'll look at 620 later
17:56 VanessaE +1 on 622 also.
17:56 paramat nore sfan5 comments on game#581 ? i suggest steelblock and straw, any others you want in for 0.4.13?
17:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/581 -- New stairs and slabs discussion
17:56 nore 622 looks good to me too
17:56 paramat thanks
17:56 sfan5 paramat: straw?
17:57 nore paramat: straw looks good, for steel I think other metal blocks should have it too
17:58 paramat straw for thatched roofs, i'm not too bothered about straw
17:58 nore but that would bloat creative inventory, so we need a way to fix that
17:59 nore btw, sfan5, paramat: did you look at game#626 ?
17:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/626 -- Add needed tileable flags for grass nodes by RealBadAngel
17:59 sfan5 oh
17:59 paramat okay, but for 0.4.13 just steel, or all metal blocks?
17:59 sfan5 straw = hay
17:59 sfan5 straw slabs hm
17:59 sfan5 I'm not sure
18:00 VanessaE sfan5: cottages mod has various shapes of straw
18:00 VanessaE and I think one of the mods in plantlife also adds some similar nodes.
18:01 VanessaE paramat: all metal blocks.
18:01 paramat yeah 626 has some odd already merged stuff in it, needs redoing
18:01 VanessaE (but not diamond, that'd be as stupid as coal block stairs :P )
18:01 paramat hehe
18:02 paramat finally i will prepare a PR for new junglewood and jungletree top, using Vanessa'a initial 619 texture, plus my dark junglewood shown in #611
18:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/611 -- Animation blending. by blue42u
18:02 paramat arg game#611
18:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/611 -- Junglewood texture too light, boring
18:03 VanessaE paramat: you mean this one:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/611#issuecomment-129258990
18:03 VanessaE or the one right after?
18:04 paramat for new grass i was thinking of making it very slightly lighter fro a closer match to the 0.4.10 texture
18:04 est31 Pushing #3044
18:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3044 -- game.cpp: Update cached settings by est31
18:04 VanessaE nah what you have now seems good to me.  about the footsteps:  make them show some dirt also maybe?
18:04 paramat the initial 619 texture that had approval form 2 devs
18:04 VanessaE ok
18:05 paramat (from)
18:05 paramat i was thinking the footprints could be usable for other materials in future?
18:05 VanessaE of course.
18:05 VanessaE I just meant footprints over grass
18:06 VanessaE you should be able to composite in default dirt using the footprint as a mask layer
18:06 paramat well it's an overlay texture, so if i add dirt pixels it can't be used for sand etc
18:06 VanessaE something like how fence inv is done
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18:08 paramat so there's talk of a release in a few days, i can get game ready to go for the end of the weekend but no sooner, please dont release without talking to me first! =)
18:09 paramat ah 626 is closed by RBA, would be nice to have it though for 0.4.13
18:10 VanessaE paramat: about masking, i mean make the footprints just a translucent greyscale image, use it to clip out some dirt at a very low opacity, overlay that onto the grass.  If used on e.g. sand or snow, you'd just directly overlay the greyscale image without the extra masking step to get a dark footprint.
18:10 est31 game#626
18:10 paramat okay thanks
18:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/626 -- Add needed tileable flags for grass nodes by RealBadAngel
18:10 est31 #626
18:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/626 -- fix memory leak on sound shutdown by sapier
18:10 paramat heh
18:10 luizrpgluiz that strange, for me the release candidate is too good to be launched, the mapgens the v5 and v7 are very good
18:11 nore paramat: it can be merged anyway
18:12 paramat nore game626? commit needs editing and approval from RBA
18:12 nore hm...
18:13 nore RealBadAngel: can we merge game#626 ?
18:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/626 -- Add needed tileable flags for grass nodes by RealBadAngel
18:13 VanessaE paramat: you would need two footprint images though to make it work (one with the totally-transparent perimeter replaced by some solid color that you could chroma-key against dirt, one without, for the plain overlay on sand et al.)
18:13 luizrpgluiz out that on some computers home here could not see the minimap in the game even activating it in the config minetest release canditate
18:13 VanessaE you can figure it out :)
18:14 paramat meh well maybe eventually, for release i'll leave it as is
18:14 VanessaE ok.
18:17 paramat okay i assume i have approval for the mushroom commit once i rename to 'mushroom_with_spores_..' and do the 'not in creative inventory' thing. will push later
18:17 luizrpgluiz VanessaE is right for me common player the game is in good condition, outside the bugs that appeared in the git hub to be arranged also
18:17 VanessaE wat
18:18 luizrpgluiz Paramat just need to fix some bugs mapgen appearing on git hub
18:21 VanessaE can someone please interpret that? :P
18:21 luizrpgluiz hehe,sorry for my english
18:27 luizrpgluiz the Paramat may have tidy bugs before releasing the candidate releace :)
18:27 luizrpgluiz on mapgen :D
18:27 paramat there are some minor mapgen bugs but that's for after release, i'm too busy preparing mtgame
18:28 luizrpgluiz :)
18:30 luizrpgluiz yes, this is good because it is very important to fix bugs in the game map generator
18:31 kahrl nore: IANAL but I think by posting the PR one implicitly releases the code under the project's license, which in the case of copyleft licenses can't be retroactively retracted
18:31 est31 well, you can claim its gpl
18:31 est31 and has been all the time
18:32 est31 and if its new media files, its even easier
18:32 est31 but IANAL too
18:32 VanessaE thing is there is chain of evidence
18:32 VanessaE the commit ID
18:33 VanessaE so posting a PR and getting it merged is an explicit offer to re-license your code if it's not already properly licensed.
18:33 nore kahrl: well, I said that because of PilzAdam's comment
18:33 VanessaE and if someone were to sue, I'm sure github would have no trouble coughing up the commit logs :P
18:33 nore but IANAL either
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18:46 paramat i'll make a stairs mod PR for steel, copper, bronze blocks and straw (not coal, gold, mese, diamond)
18:47 nore paramat: gold could have stairs too
18:48 paramat hm perhaps..
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18:59 paramat okay sure gold too
19:01 VanessaE also check the model itself, I think I noticed a z-fighting issue when "inside" it once (noclip).  same will happen if someone (e.g. Calinou) uses the default model to make say glass stairs (say moreblocks switches to using it)
19:02 VanessaE yep, it does.
19:03 VanessaE solution via RBA:  scale the whole model up just a tiny amount (I'd say to 100.05 percent of current size?) so that the overlapping stair faces get buried under their neighbors.
19:04 VanessaE (I guess at that point, irrlicht or the driver will cull them since they're hidden?)
19:05 VanessaE reference image:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-08-13_15-05-05.png
19:06 VanessaE doesn't happen with slabs since they're not a mesh
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19:31 paramat is it a problem if only seen when inside? seems best to have the exact proper size
19:33 VanessaE for solid textures yeah
19:34 VanessaE but if someone uses the stairs model to produce stairs of any translucent material, it'll be visible from the outside too
19:34 VanessaE maybe just turn on basic backface culling then?
19:35 VanessaE s/translucent/non-opaque/
19:36 paramat i see
19:36 VanessaE (this can be done with the "special tiles" node def option, but not with regular tiles)
19:40 paramat changing stairs to meshes seems to have caused problems, sometimes i think we should go back to the nodebox
19:40 VanessaE nah, the best thing to do is fixed the problems instead
19:41 VanessaE using one mesh means now all mods out there that create stairs can refer to it.
19:41 VanessaE that means less code to plough through,t oo
19:44 VanessaE (I am of course ignoring the stairs mod's API)
19:46 paramat agreed
19:48 VanessaE by the way, is there any kind of ref counting or indexing used to display the same model over and over?
19:49 VanessaE (I mean, for example, is each node in a long staircase its own unique mesh?  or does the driver/library fetch the same block of mesh data over and over for each stair?)
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20:43 hmmmm does anybody know how to use the capturetheflag game?
20:44 hmmmm i put it in games/, create a world in it, start the world, and i get this:   2015-08-13 16:39:22: ERROR[main]: mod "ctf_match" has unsatisfied dependencies:  "ctf" "ctf_flag"
20:44 hmmmm isn't the game supposed to include that?
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20:49 est31 hmmmm, can you add my ideas to the acceptance criteria? https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/3051#issuecomment-130836394
20:49 hmmmm well hold on
20:49 hmmmm zoom is covered under 'mode'
20:50 hmmmm anyway now that RBA isn't around anymore i can speak a little free-er about this... the concept of minimap modes suck
20:50 hmmmm zoom should be its own variable, shape should be its own variable, radar/surface should be its own variable
20:50 hmmmm the way it is now just adds repetitiveness to code
20:50 est31 if its client set, we need to specify it
20:50 est31 its perfectly fine what RBA did
20:50 hmmmm we'll cover all this stuff when we rework the minimap
20:51 est31 well, it seems you agree to what I say then
20:52 hmmmm this story basically boils down to "the minimap needs a lot of work"
20:53 est31 lots of areas need a lot of work
20:53 est31 right now its very limited
20:53 hmmmm yeah
20:53 est31 just like minecraft hardcoding the nodedefs
20:54 est31 we have to get it to minetest niveau
20:54 hmmmm minecraft isn't better than minetest, it just has different problems
20:54 est31 and send the modedefs at connection
20:54 hmmmm I like to think we're doing okay for a bunch of volunteers
20:54 est31 hmmmm, I've meant it the other way, minetest is better than minecraft :)
20:54 hmmmm of course
20:54 hmmmm minecraft seems to have more features and is more polished etc.
20:54 est31 but yeah, it has areas where it shines and we dont
20:55 hmmmm it's easy to do this when everything is hardcoded
20:55 est31 ^
20:55 est31 and when you can hire devs for money
20:55 hmmmm right
20:55 hmmmm if we were working on minecraft, then we'd already be done with the minimap and we'd move onto the next feature
20:56 est31 yea.
20:56 est31 we have the flag, thats all what our users need
20:56 hmmmm it's what they need right now :)
20:57 hmmmm in any case I don't need to really modify my own comment to add on your bullet points... do I?
20:57 hmmmm just add "Additional criteria"
20:57 est31 ok
20:57 kahrl if we were working on minecraft, we'd be randomly shuffling packet ids around each protocol version :D http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Use_Item
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20:57 est31 minecraft is a game, minetest is an engine xD
21:00 est31 and about this error showing on mod list errors hmmmm, it turns out that this stupid code just sets an empty json tree value, on the case an error occurs, and continues
21:00 est31 so the only way to check it is with some emptiness check
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21:00 hmmmm well, however it needs to be done :)
21:00 est31 or to change the whole http json fetching api
21:01 est31 I'd either have to return std::pair<json value, bool success>
21:01 est31 or work with references/pointers
21:01 est31 or use exceptions
21:01 est31 or the easiest, just simply make the emptiness check
21:02 hmmmm right now i'd favor simple solutions
21:02 hmmmm I think that it's okay to add hacks, as long as you make an issue on github to fix it the proper way later on and promise to not forget about it
21:03 est31 I'll look to where that API is used
21:04 est31 I guess not much more than mainmenu lua
21:04 est31 and if there is an error with fetching the data, we just return nil
21:04 est31 and as the second param an error message
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21:31 hmmmm hrm :(
21:31 hmmmm well I am trying my hardest but I can't get delete_area to crash
21:31 hmmmm rubenwardy says the map gets stuck after using it, but the only thing that gets stuck is the serverthread because it's so damn slow
21:31 hmmmm because sqlite
21:32 est31 I got it crash with a sqlite map
21:45 hmmmm so rubenwardy's CTF game wants to delete 9261 blocks
21:45 hmmmm each block takes anywhere from 37 microseconds to 250 milliseconds to even 130 milliseconds (probably when the db flushes to disk)
21:46 hmmmm erm, i mean 25 milliseconds
21:46 hmmmm 130 milliseconds is the max
21:46 hmmmm what he actually wants to do is delete the map
21:47 hmmmm anyway the slowness can be solved by putting sqlite in async mode or just dropping the old db and deleting the file, starting anew
21:47 est31 his usecase would work with deleteing the file I gues
21:47 est31 s
21:48 est31 but the general problem wont be solved
21:48 hmmmm async sqlite could be dangerous
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21:59 rubenwardy hmmmm: the capturetheflag game uses submodules, you need to --recursive
22:00 rubenwardy my VPS uses a SSD and it takes roughly 3 seconds to delete 160^3
22:03 rubenwardy when in the capturetheflag game, you can use /ctf_next to trigger a delete_blocks. Providing you have the ctf_admin priv
22:04 est31 do you have mods there?
22:04 est31 mobs
22:04 est31 sorry :)
22:05 rubenwardy no
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22:07 rubenwardy http://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag for the subgame. Most of the code is in a modpack, which is included as a submodule in the subgame: http://github.com/rubenwardy/ctf_pvp_engine
22:09 est31 can you replicate the crash in singleplayer?
22:13 est31 hrmmm cant reproduce the crash either
22:13 est31 but hmmmm I can remember seeing the crash on a server
22:13 est31 I have issued that delete_area call
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22:16 rubenwardy I'm using the latest dev, and the server hasn't crashed in five days. I've stopped killing it at midnight, so it's been up all that time. The map blocks getting stuck doesn't happen either.
22:16 rubenwardy i stopped the server today when i rebooted my vps to install updates.
22:16 rubenwardy and forgot to restart it
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22:17 rubenwardy well, latest dev as of five days ago
22:17 rubenwardy remember that I posted stack tracebacks of segfaults in V's unexplained crashes thread.
22:19 rubenwardy Anyway, gotta sleep now. I'll read the logs.
22:24 luizrpgluiz in which the file is hosted pvp code of minetest?
22:25 luizrpgluiz it is in some .cpp file or in any file .lua
22:57 luizrpgluiz would be very good in some future update has just enabled pvp in just in one or more areas in minetest
23:26 hmmmm i'd answer but i have no idea what hosted pvp is
23:26 hmmmm est31:  are you sure the delete_area crash wasn't fixed already?
23:32 luizrpgluiz hehe,My idea would be to enable the pvp in certain map areas
23:32 luizrpgluiz or off pvp also in areas determined by the server administrators

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