IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-04

Time	Nick	Message
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08:47	TBC_x	man... single-threaded emerging takes forever
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10:22	TBC_x	TSan warnings printed for server running for over 12 hours http://sprunge.us/FGFP
10:23	est31	good old connection.cpp
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10:38	twoelk	just found out that a more recent client seems to have scrambled my account password on a server. after connecting into the old account with a new client I can not connect with an old one, roughly preminimap, anymore
10:39	nrzkt	twoelk: SRP related
10:41	twoelk	whatever - just reporting something that might be considered a sort of compatabilty breackage and therefore might be of importance when regarding the naming of the next stable version
10:46	celeron55	is there no proper error message for that situation?
10:46	celeron55	there should be
10:47	twoelk	it seems to be once you have decided to use a newer client you cannot go back and use an older because you cannot use the same nick-password set anymore
10:49	twoelk	this may be of concern when you use different devices to connect to the same account at different times
10:49	VanessaE	no offense to est31 but SRP needs to be completely disabled (both client and server) by default until stuff like ^^^^ that, and irc_commands compatibility works properly.
10:57	sfan5	yeah
10:58	sfan5	SRP should be disabled until all problems and issues with it are solved
11:00	nrzkt	celeron55, no you only have a login failed because a password mismatch
11:00	celeron55	that's pretty bad
11:01	TBC_x	anyone looked into GNU/Hurd bug? https://lists.debian.org/debian-hurd/2014/10/msg00020.html
11:02	TBC_x	hmm... when I look at the code it looks fixed
11:03	VanessaE	Hurd still exists? :)
11:06	RealBadAngel	im about to fix all the fsaa/non tileable textures issues
11:07	RealBadAngel	question: have we switched to protocol 26 already?
11:07	VanessaE	a wild RBA appears!
11:07	TBC_x	probably, yes
11:07	TBC_x	git log says so
11:08	RealBadAngel	i was waitin for it
11:08	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: note that we're in feature freeze now
11:08	RealBadAngel	thats a bunch of bugfixes
11:08	RealBadAngel	not a feature
11:08	VanessaE	I know.
11:09	VanessaE	just saying you'll have to be extra careful :)
11:09	RealBadAngel	i know i know, valgrind has to show no more errors after my commits ;)
11:10	VanessaE	TBC_x: including some of the harder stuff like address and thread sanitizing?\ :)
11:10	TBC_x	at least address sanitizing
11:10	TBC_x	thread sanitizing makes the code running single-core
11:10	VanessaE	otherwise hmmmm will kick your ass ;)
11:11	TBC_x	and disables OpenGL
11:11	VanessaE	ok so forget that part :P
11:11	TBC_x	I pointed out that we should disable minimap radar mode when it is `broken`
11:12	TBC_x	unless you want to fix it before release
11:12	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, i will fix it
11:12	TBC_x	you got six days
11:12	RealBadAngel	they have deleted too much
11:12	RealBadAngel	in wild hunt for leaks
11:13	VanessaE	I suggesting pushing what you have to your own fork now so that others have time to review
11:13	RealBadAngel	scanner is receiving too few data thx to deleting whatever they thought is not necesary
11:13	VanessaE	there's really no time for your usual "I'm fixing/polishing and will have it out in some days"
11:14	RealBadAngel	minimap is broken thx to sanitizing it
11:14	RealBadAngel	i wont allow minimap in its current state be a part of a release
11:15	RealBadAngel	there should be a rule: dont understand the code, dont touch
11:15	RealBadAngel	ask first for christ sake
11:15	TBC_x	that's bullshit
11:15	RealBadAngel	no its not
11:16	RealBadAngel	breaking a funcionality and fixing leaks are two different things
11:16	TBC_x	introducing `broken` functionality is another
11:16	TBC_x	and I don't like ho mapper utilizes CPU
11:16	TBC_x	s/ho/how/
11:16	RealBadAngel	for the leaks im sorry. for the functionality im not to blame
11:17	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, so you would expect some bunch of magic dwarves doing the scans instead of cpu?
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11:17	VanessaE	strange, I don't see anything wrong with the minimap in HEAD.
11:18	RealBadAngel	radar mode on surface is broken
11:18	TBC_x	at first, mapper shouldn't generate minimap blocks for mapblocks that are not in range
11:18	RealBadAngel	it should look like night vision googles effect
11:18	VanessaE	yeah I see now.
11:18	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, mapper doesnt genereate any blocks
11:18	TBC_x	well... pixels
11:18	RealBadAngel	no
11:19	VanessaE	underground there is another issue - visible mapblock borders
11:19	VanessaE	or rather, chunk borders I think
11:19	RealBadAngel	whatever is loaded is in the cache
11:19	TBC_x	yes
11:19	RealBadAngel	thats not going to change
11:19	TBC_x	even if it never gets to the screen at all
11:20	RealBadAngel	you seems to not understand one fundamental rule
11:20	TBC_x	i listen
11:20	RealBadAngel	block is minimapped on load or on change only
11:20	RealBadAngel	so basically once
11:21	RealBadAngel	factor of calculations needed is reduced by 16
11:21	RealBadAngel	its 8,5kk nodes divided by 16
11:21	RealBadAngel	to get full scan
11:22	TBC_x	you don't have to scan the entire universe when you're making a minimap
11:22	RealBadAngel	ONLY because of that we are able to make it run realtime
11:22	RealBadAngel	i dont
11:22	RealBadAngel	i scan the cache selecting visible blocks
11:23	TBC_x	I don't think that realtime minimap is better than fast minimap
11:23	TBC_x	well... I want to see your results when you're done with your modifications
11:23	RealBadAngel	realtime means it have to be fast
11:23	RealBadAngel	i want to make it even faster
11:24	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: you need to make your modifications available NOW.
11:24	RealBadAngel	but not the way you think
11:24	VanessaE	in your own repo or something
11:24	RealBadAngel	no
11:24	RealBadAngel	its a long term goal
11:24	VanessaE	no
11:24	RealBadAngel	i need to rewrite whole core
11:24	TBC_x	too poor someone pushed your minimap to master
11:24	VanessaE	we don't have time for "long term" here. feature freeze --> release in 6 days.
11:24	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, its not poor. it is fast already
11:25	RealBadAngel	on the other hand theres no code that is perfect from the begining
11:25	TBC_x	you want me to make comparisons?
11:25	RealBadAngel	moreover it will never be propably
11:25	RealBadAngel	i just have an idea how to make things faster
11:25	TBC_x	minecraft minimaps decrease performance just by around 10%
11:26	RealBadAngel	but thats have nothing to do with general algorithm for scanning
11:26	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, you must be joking
11:26	RealBadAngel	i was playing mc
11:26	TBC_x	well, ok 15%
11:26	RealBadAngel	on my box minimap caused like 50% fps drop
11:27	TBC_x	on my box, your minimap caused like 75% fps drop
11:27	RealBadAngel	on mine theres no visible drop :P
11:27	TBC_x	too poor you're not developing on an average supported box
11:28	RealBadAngel	only thing that slows down minimap is not scanning but preparation of textures to be shown
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11:28	TBC_x	and why all textures are so slow anyway?
11:28	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, im developing on a box thats worth circa 250$
11:28	RealBadAngel	dare to call it high end one?
11:29	RealBadAngel	my new tablet cost me way more than that :P
11:29	TBC_x	I'm on a box worth of $400
11:29	TBC_x	eight years ago
11:30	RealBadAngel	have you found it while lookin for some burried treasures?
11:30	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: I'm on a box that cost me $700 (a few years ago) and which is objectively faster than yours, yet as you well know you get better performance than me... so value/cost != speed.
11:30	VanessaE	(not in minetest anyway)
11:31	TBC_x	then you should know what I had before this one
11:31	RealBadAngel	8yrs old computer is worth only throwing away
11:31	TBC_x	it was Toshiba with 486, 32MB RAM and 4GB HDD
11:31	RealBadAngel	its way before dinosaurs :P
11:31	VanessaE	8yrs-old computer is perfectly functional and is what minetest is supposed to be targeted at.
11:31	RealBadAngel	lol
11:32	RealBadAngel	sorry but most of what im coding is targeting nowadays effects
11:32	Calinou	the game can be played without minimap anyway
11:32	RealBadAngel	ofc
11:32	Calinou	if performance is too low, just disable it
11:32	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: that's why you make sure that you have adequate fallbacks
11:32	RealBadAngel	just dont enable it if box is too slow
11:32	RealBadAngel	fallback for minimap is to disable it
11:32	Calinou	also, why not update the minimap less often?
11:33	RealBadAngel	maybe there should be a setting for it in main menu
11:33	TBC_x	not acceptable for other people
11:33	Calinou	wouldn't that reduce resource usage by a lot?
11:33	VanessaE	I mean in general. there's nothing even remotely "nowadays" about a minimap
11:33	TBC_x	that's what I was proposing
11:33	VanessaE	I've seen games on the C64 do that.
11:33	TBC_x	probably in a wrong way
11:33	Calinou	Doom had a minimap, VanessaE :P
11:33	Calinou	very basic one, but then source ports made it textured and such
11:33	VanessaE	Calinou: case in point.
11:34	TBC_x	doom minimap was wireframe
11:34	RealBadAngel	doom didnt have to check 8,500,000 nodes to get single frame :P
11:34	TBC_x	mt minimap does not either
11:34	RealBadAngel	well it does 8,500,000 / 16
11:34	TBC_x	In what order are you processing the mapblocks?
11:34	RealBadAngel	thx to the mapblock_mesh trick
11:35	RealBadAngel	in a column you need to get highest non-air node
11:36	RealBadAngel	you check cached blocks to get that node
11:36	RealBadAngel	for each block stored in cache you have relative height and node stored
11:36	TBC_x	too bad the server don't send mapblocks in such order
11:36	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, what sending has to do with it?
11:37	RealBadAngel	its only client side thing
11:37	RealBadAngel	server is not aware of existence of minimap
11:37	TBC_x	I know
11:37	RealBadAngel	so i can respond after you
11:37	RealBadAngel	bullshit
11:38	TBC_x	but minimap probably doesn't check whether the opaque mapblocks sits beneath unloaded mapblock
11:38	RealBadAngel	you havent spent any time to get the logic behind it and yet comment it
11:38	RealBadAngel	....propably....
11:38	TBC_x	I'm just describing what I see is happening
11:39	RealBadAngel	see the code, then comment it
11:39	RealBadAngel	you dont get how it works at all, sorry
11:39	RealBadAngel	if something is not loaded, its not in cache
11:40	TBC_x	...
11:40	TBC_x	Just finish your minimap already
11:41	TBC_x	at least into release-able state
11:41	VanessaE	TBC_x: what do you mean "opaque-below-unloaded"? you mean like how minetest mapper sometimes shows a lower, stone mapblock where you'd expect grass?
11:41	sfan5	<TBC_x> anyone looked into GNU/Hurd bug? https://lists.debian.org/debian-hurd/2014/10/msg00020.html
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11:41	sfan5	hm
11:41	RealBadAngel	basically i need to move scanning into propably completely new thread
11:41	sfan5	wouldn't s/__MACH__/__APPLE__/ make more sense there?
11:41	TBC_x	VanessaE: yes
11:41	RealBadAngel	main problem with mapblock_mesh updates is that it is triggered way to often
11:42	RealBadAngel	client is flooded with mesh updates
11:42	VanessaE	TBC_x: well honestly I don't see a problem there, since the client can't force the missing block to be loaded.
11:42	TBC_x	then you shouldn't depend on that RBA
11:42	VanessaE	TBC_x: are you suggesting that the entire column below the not-yet-loaded part just not be added to the minimap image?
11:42	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, frankly that was c55 idea
11:43	RealBadAngel	i didnt realized how much often is mesh update thread called
11:43	TBC_x	well, now you see how it runs in practice
11:43	RealBadAngel	on modern pcs, good enough
11:44	RealBadAngel	having 60fps usually with all the gfx settings on, and minimap is quite good
11:44	TBC_x	VanessaE: partly, yes
11:45	RealBadAngel	but anyway, i will make that code faster
11:45	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: again, there's NO time for long-term stuff. you have to fix and push your code to your repo right away or you will miss the release
11:45	RealBadAngel	but please dont push me to do it in a few days. i had a break lately, because of my health
11:46	RealBadAngel	just need some time to finish it
11:46	TBC_x	I thought that in master are allowed only finished features
11:46	RealBadAngel	it is finished
11:47	VanessaE	TBC_x: at this point yes, but generally apparently not :)
11:47	RealBadAngel	but it doesnt mean it cannot be made faster
11:47	RealBadAngel	but its not polishing a piece of code
11:47	RealBadAngel	its rewritting some core parts of it
11:47	TBC_x	RBA: Go search trash cans for a piece of hardware that you can test the minimap on
11:47	RealBadAngel	lol
11:48	RealBadAngel	go play that mc again and check of different mappers how much they cost
11:48	RealBadAngel	before complaining mine is too slow
11:49	RealBadAngel	our is capable of runnin the same frame rate as whole world :P
11:49	VanessaE	stop comparing to MC
11:49	TBC_x	I'm comparing minimaps
11:49	VanessaE	just because A is slower than B doesn't mean B isn't also slow.
11:50	RealBadAngel	so just disable the fuckin minimap for the release :P
11:50	TBC_x	mapblock emerging could also use a culling algorithm
11:50	RealBadAngel	i simply have not enough time before release to make it faster
11:51	RealBadAngel	and get the sticker "486x ready" for 0.4.13 :P
11:51	VanessaE	forget about making it faster!
11:51	VanessaE	just fix whatever bugs it has
11:51	TBC_x	support for 8086 would suffice
11:51	RealBadAngel	meanwhile im fixing the bugs
11:52	VanessaE	faster == feature.
11:52	RealBadAngel	fsaa broken many things
11:52	TBC_x	fix bugs, prepare for release, then make it god damn faster
11:52	VanessaE	TBC_x: echo...echo...echo... ;)
11:52	RealBadAngel	idk yet it will be faster. i just believe it will be
11:52	TBC_x	just setting up RBA's TODO list
11:53	RealBadAngel	what i know theres shitload of things to change
11:53	RealBadAngel	mostly not related to minimap
11:53	RealBadAngel	but bounded to FPS
11:54	RealBadAngel	point is all those changes are effecting how the game overall feels
11:55	RealBadAngel	"luckily" im coding VISIBLE changes, so im the boy to kick his ass when fps drops
11:55	TBC_x	I think I already mentioned what milestones for the next release should be
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11:55	TBC_x	if it is either 0.5.0 or 0.4.14
11:56	RealBadAngel	i can understand kicks when i screw something, like leaks. but not when im adding functionality that requires cpu or gpu power to work
11:56	RealBadAngel	got trashcan pc? just turn them off for christ sake
11:56	RealBadAngel	or buy yourself new box
11:57	TBC_x	If I do that I can't afford food
11:57	TBC_x	hmm
11:57	TBC_x	screw food
11:57	RealBadAngel	keeping compability with 9 yrs old standards is pain in the ass
11:57	RealBadAngel	see opengl 2.1
11:57	TBC_x	opengl 2.1 is ok
11:58	RealBadAngel	no its not
11:58	RealBadAngel	its a museum
11:58	TBC_x	opengl 1.x is not
11:58	RealBadAngel	nothing more than lighting and waving will be supported for <3.0
11:58	RealBadAngel	instructions pipeline is too short in 2.1
11:58	TBC_x	I don't care about reflections and stuff
11:59	RealBadAngel	even parallax wont work there
11:59	RealBadAngel	reflections? forget bout it
11:59	TBC_x	tesselation on 16x16 is creepy
12:00	RealBadAngel	such old gpus are simply not capable to have more than 512 instructions per shader
12:00	RealBadAngel	and loops are unrolled, if you would like to know
12:01	RealBadAngel	same applies to android devices
12:01	RealBadAngel	im not sure yet about android watches and fridges :P
12:01	TBC_x	well If people can't run minetest on their android fridges, we're totally screwed
12:02	TBC_x	you definitely must support android watches and fridges
12:03	RealBadAngel	:)
12:03	RealBadAngel	i will try to do my best ;)
12:03	TBC_x	well then... stop talking and go work!
12:04	TBC_x	;)
12:04	TBC_x	I have at least three data races to fix
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12:12	TBC_x	what is the purporse of RemoteClient::SetBlockNotSent?
12:15	TBC_x	and why are two threads touching it?
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12:25	TBC_x	oh, because the second call don't lock a mutex over it
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12:35	Calinou	<TBC_x> opengl 1.x is not
12:35	Calinou	<leilol> heresy!!!
12:36	Sketch2	there's someone name Faker on Australia Skyblock claiming to be a dev. using a hacked client
12:37	TBC_x	don't you know banhammers in australia?
12:38	Sketch2	he says he's testing for bugs in the game
12:38	TBC_x	haha
12:38	Sketch2	anybody know the admin?
12:39	sfan5	!server skyblock
12:39	ShadowBot	sfan5: server [--{name,address,ip,players,ping,port} <value>]
12:39	sfan5	oh right we have ShadowBot here
12:39	sfan5	Sketch2: this is something for #minetest, not this channel
12:39	sfan5	nothing we can do
12:41	Sketch2	sorry sfan5, I kinda realized that after I typed it. I was originally thinking bcause he claimed to be a dev I'd verify in here first
12:48	RealBadAngel	Sketch2, use a smoked kangooroo to smash that imposter
12:58	RealBadAngel	Sketch2, but it can be that was cornernote, skyblock creator ;)
12:59	Sketch2	lols
13:00	RealBadAngel	was it cornernote?
13:02	RealBadAngel	Sketch2, i was also banned from VE's server a few days ago ;)
13:02	RealBadAngel	was just testing my new tablet lol
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13:09	RealBadAngel	ok. https://imgrush.com/GAIRcVrUFHVf <- after
13:09	RealBadAngel	https://imgrush.com/w0AgWWov1350.png <- before
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13:10	RealBadAngel	i solved fsaa problems, but it requires some lua changes to node defs
13:10	RealBadAngel	same problem as we had before with grass
13:11	RealBadAngel	we do need definition in node def saying if tile is tileable
13:11	RealBadAngel	quite change for mod makers
13:13	RealBadAngel	code is ready for that, just defs in game shall be updated
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13:37	TBC_x	why can't this be for all plantlikes?
13:37	nrzkt	RealBadAngel i want to run minetest on my TI-82, can you fix your minimap please
13:37	Sketch2	that's great
13:37	TBC_x	default
13:39	RealBadAngel	target is to run it on ZX-81
13:41	nrzkt	perfect, thanks :D
13:41	TBC_x	ClientInterface in clientiface.cpp was not designed to be multithreaded
13:41	RealBadAngel	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/ZX81_kit.jpg/220px-ZX81_kit.jpg
13:42	RealBadAngel	thats a pretty decent piece of hardware
13:42	RealBadAngel	just twice as old as open gl 2.1 ;)
13:43	RealBadAngel	nrzkt, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Sinclair_ZX81_Setup_PhotoManipped.jpg/1280px-Sinclair_ZX81_Setup_PhotoManipped.jpg
13:44	RealBadAngel	are you sure our network protocol supports tape recorders? ;)
13:44	TBC_x	it will get rewritten anyway
13:46	Sketch2	I remember my Commodore64 had a 300 baud modem, wonder if that's fast enough to run a server
13:46	TBC_x	we can then add support for pack mules
13:46	TBC_x	that carry packets
13:48	Sketch2	I'd imagine it'd be possible. what print them out, then scan them back in with OCR when they reach their destination?
13:49	Sketch2	wonder what the ping would be on that route
13:49	TBC_x	we'll need to raise timeout a little
13:50	TBC_x	if we make a clever mule deserialization, I think we can skip the OCR part
13:51	RealBadAngel	ive seen c64 running web browser
13:51	TBC_x	and WebGL
13:51	TBC_x	;)
13:51	Sketch2	They were pretty mean little machines
13:54	RealBadAngel	and thats why i do want in the future one in
13:55	RealBadAngel	exactly this one: http://libz80.sourceforge.net/
13:56	RealBadAngel	nowadays pcs are able to make 15yrs old computers in a node
13:56	Sketch2	no kiddin
13:56	RealBadAngel	eloraam made 6502
13:57	RealBadAngel	i want z80 and cp/m
13:57	RealBadAngel	*eloraam is creator of RedPower mod for mc
13:58	RealBadAngel	computers there are fully programmable and able to control logic in the world
13:58	TBC_x	mt should allow native code mods
13:58	TBC_x	at least source-compatible
13:58	RealBadAngel	fully means they are real computers with own IO, RAM and video
13:59	RealBadAngel	once such lib is merged theres no problem
14:00	RealBadAngel	z80lib is open source, compatible with us
14:00	Calinou	native code mods suck
14:00	TBC_x	gpl not lgpl
14:00	RealBadAngel	this wont be a mod
14:00	Calinou	not only it provokes people into making their mods proprietary, they are also a huge pain to make platform-independent
14:00	RealBadAngel	but a feature
14:01	Calinou	people should not be taught into trusting random .dll's and .so's
14:01	RealBadAngel	no
14:01	TBC_x	have you seen c55's buildat?
14:01	RealBadAngel	i mean including the sources
14:01	RealBadAngel	later on you can run whatever z80 soft you like
14:02	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: I removed that ban when you reported it.
14:02	RealBadAngel	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb0Q9htsbBI
14:02	RealBadAngel	VanessaE, i know, thx
14:03	RealBadAngel	TBC_x, watch that vid
14:03	RealBadAngel	its quite old
14:03	TBC_x	i know that, I was playing with RP a lot
14:03	RealBadAngel	its 6502 and forth interpreter build on top of it
14:04	RealBadAngel	point is that this forth is an app
14:04	TBC_x	i know
14:04	RealBadAngel	for an engine feature
14:04	RealBadAngel	z80 is lightweight
14:05	RealBadAngel	as for nowadays cpus
14:05	RealBadAngel	but can be lotsa fun
14:06	RealBadAngel	we do lack such features, like wireing and computers
14:06	RealBadAngel	mods cannot do that properly
14:06	RealBadAngel	we had nearly perfect circuits PR there
14:06	RealBadAngel	even c55 said its brilliant
14:07	RealBadAngel	what happened to it?
14:07	TBC_x	circuits in minetest_game?
14:07	RealBadAngel	no
14:07	RealBadAngel	in core
14:07	RealBadAngel	no game can handle such thing
14:07	TBC_x	like support for connections in core?
14:07	RealBadAngel	not connections
14:07	RealBadAngel	wires logic
14:08	RealBadAngel	how could it be you have not seen that PR?
14:08	TBC_x	core needs generic implementation
14:08	RealBadAngel	there was one
14:08	RealBadAngel	fm took it
14:09	RealBadAngel	guy spent lotsa time on it
14:09	RealBadAngel	SHAME we havent it merged
14:10	RealBadAngel	now rebasing stuff propably could take ages
14:10	TBC_x	we need at least smooth animations, smooth inventory handling and rewrite connection.cpp for next release
14:12	TBC_x	and smarter node selection box that don't cause mesh updates
14:12	RealBadAngel	youre all attempting ass side
14:12	RealBadAngel	while basics are broken you do care bout face lifting :P
14:13	TBC_x	is there a todo list of things to do?
14:13	RealBadAngel	before i could get my ideas to work like parallax it took me over a year to get what ive imagined
14:13	RealBadAngel	after such period you can see results of my work
14:14	RealBadAngel	what i do plan is always long term
14:14	RealBadAngel	even if im making stupid mistakes from time to time
14:15	TBC_x	also... mesh generator needs occlusion culling
14:25	TBC_x	why server thread calls SetBlocksNotSent?
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14:50	TBC_x	it is more intertwinned that I expected
14:58	TBC_x	that's a gordian knot
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15:00	TBC_x	hi hmmmm
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15:46	hmmmm	hey
15:47	hmmmm	looking through the logs
15:47	hmmmm	dammit est
15:47	hmmmm	this is exactly why I wanted unit tests added
15:49	hmmmm	TBC_x: I just looked through your thread sanitizer logs. it seems like shared access of UDPPeer is the only current issue, which we haven't seen because modifications to the UDPPeer list are incredibly incommon network events
15:50	hmmmm	TBC_x: collecting more crash logs isn't going to help diagnose the actual problem sooner, just change the SharedBuffer to Buffer and be done with it
15:50	hmmmm	so at least people won't crash
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15:56	amadin	Please help server crashed every 3-6 hours https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12962
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16:21	amadin	buggest server in the world
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16:57	hmmmm	hrmm
16:58	hmmmm	we should've told him to try disabling mods
16:58	hmmmm	i'm not quite sure how, but it seems like his mod is corrupting Lua's internal state to the point where it has a runtime error attempting to generate a backtrace
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17:43	celeron55	in case someone is following the github code of conduct bullshit and their recommendations for projects to have a CoC, here's a good one for us so this doesn't have to discussed at any point: https://github.com/ciafwywcoc/ciafwywcoc/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT
17:44	sfan5	wtfpl for for CoC
17:44	sfan5	:D
17:44	celeron55	yes; this wins the internet
17:45	sfan5	i like this one too: https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC
17:45	COINTELBRO	nothing cuter than geeks being macho
17:45	celeron55	that works too
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19:06	TBC_x	what is code of conduct about anyways?
19:06	Calinou	"promoting diversity"
19:06	Calinou	and avoiding harrassment
19:06	COINTELBRO	basically a way of eliminating people who are shitheads in public without any further discussion
19:07	nrzkt	where did you see this code of conduct ?
19:07	sfan5	<celeroâ€‹n55> in case someone is following the github code of conduct bullshit and their recommendations for projects to have a CoC, here's a good one for us so this doesn't have to discussed at any point: https://github.com/ciafwywcoc/ciafwywcoc/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT
19:08	COINTELBRO	alternatively, a plot by the united nations to steal our guns and with it our freedoms
19:08	sfan5	>guns
19:08	sfan5	do you live in usa?
19:08	TBC_x	apperntly
19:09	TBC_x	ICAN'T SPEEL
19:09	TBC_x	...
19:17	TBC_x	I don't feel like having a CODE_OF_CONDUCT file
19:18	TBC_x	strlen(CODE_OF_CONDUCT)
19:18	TBC_x	too long
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19:29	TBC_x	looks like setBlocksNotSent is causing the heap corruption
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19:35	TBC_x	how does std::vector<T> copy constructor work? deep copy or shallow copy?
19:39	kahrl	TBC_x: deep in the sense it invokes the copy constructor for each element
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19:39	kahrl	you can make it shallow by making T a pointer type
19:40	TBC_x	changing Server::SetBlocksNotSent(std::map<v3s16, MapBlock >& block) to Server::setBlocksNotSent(std::vector<u16>& clients, MapBlock >& block)
19:41	TBC_x	hmm
19:41	TBC_x	this is inconsistent, type& var or type &var?
19:42	kahrl	what < is closed by the last >?
19:43	TBC_x	std::map<v3s16, MapBlock > &block vs std::map<v3s16, MapBlock >& block
19:44	kahrl	doesn't make a difference to me
19:44	TBC_x	look at & position
19:44	TBC_x	&-space-variable or space-&-variable
19:44	kahrl	that's just code style
19:44	TBC_x	yes
19:45	kahrl	I thought you were fixing the heap corruption
19:45	TBC_x	well... yeah
19:45	TBC_x	but I don't want to mess up code style
19:45	kahrl	the guidelines recommend space-&
19:46	TBC_x	ok
19:46	kahrl	(I personally don't care, not even if it's inconsistent)
19:47	hmmmm	TBC_x: type &var
19:47	TBC_x	kk
19:47	hmmmm	but
19:47	hmmmm	you don't have to change existing code
19:47	hmmmm	just don't use non-const references in new code
19:48	hmmmm	if you're modifying some kind of value, use type *val;
19:48	hmmmm	if you want to do a zero-copy pass of some kind of value, use const type &val
19:48	hmmmm	never use "type &val"
19:48	hmmmm	it's so misleading
19:48	TBC_x	ok
19:49	hmmmm	iirc, most other code standards ban non-const reference parameters as well
19:49	hmmmm	with great reason!
19:50	TBC_x	hmm... should I avoid method overloading?
19:51	TBC_x	because I want to rename a method to setBlocksNotSentToAll
19:51	TBC_x	or just setBlocksNotSentAll
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19:55	RealBadAngel	damn, i hate coding changes to tile.cpp it recompiles then all the shit around ;)
19:57	hmmmm	TBC_x, try to avoid it if you can
19:57	hmmmm	I don't think it's explicitly prohibited
20:01	TBC_x	removing ClientInterface::getClientNoEx
20:02	TBC_x	the mutex in there comes too late
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20:04	TBC_x	damn... the entire thing is wrong
20:04	RealBadAngel	question: fsaa textures fix for plants requires defining if texture is tileable or not. shall i make plantlike non-tileable by default or mods shall have to define that in nodedefs?
20:05	RealBadAngel	the second means all the existing nodedefs will have to be changed to get rid of a glitch
20:05	TBC_x	clients get mutexed, but the whole list does not and clients can be freed at any time while other threads may be working on them
20:06	RealBadAngel	hmmmm, what do you think?
20:06	TBC_x	can't there be any default?
20:07	RealBadAngel	default was tileable
20:07	RealBadAngel	and when it comes to fsaa or any effect that modifies textures thats not so good
20:07	TBC_x	what tileable exactly mean?
20:08	RealBadAngel	that two tiles placed next to each other are tiling seamlessly
20:08	TBC_x	so, every node using drawtypes is wrong?
20:09	RealBadAngel	no, the problem is with just some of them
20:09	RealBadAngel	but all the plants for example
20:10	TBC_x	can't a drawtype define a default tileability?
20:10	RealBadAngel	thats what im asking for, but that could create a mess if some of drawtypes will have another defaults
20:11	TBC_x	what happens when you define all drawtypes nontileable?
20:11	RealBadAngel	without fsaa, mipmapping and parallax - nothing propably
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20:12	RealBadAngel	but with any of the effects above connections between tileable nodes will be broken
20:12	TBC_x	then go and take measurements
20:12	RealBadAngel	i did
20:12	RealBadAngel	^^
20:12	TBC_x	why did you say probably?
20:13	RealBadAngel	well, forget "propably" ;)
20:13	RealBadAngel	for sure
20:13	RealBadAngel	in such case we shall define then which nodes have seamless faces
20:14	RealBadAngel	and that could be even worse imho
20:14	RealBadAngel	because most of the nodes are seamless
20:15	RealBadAngel	http://pastie.org/10330112
20:16	RealBadAngel	^^ above shows whats needed to define which face is not seamless - in case of dirt with grass it cannot tile vertically, but can horizontally
20:17	RealBadAngel	defaults are true - so only one face has to be modified
20:17	RealBadAngel	erm, one tile - it goes for 4 faces in this case
20:21	TBC_x	do Server class really span of several files?
20:29	RealBadAngel	https://imgrush.com/OA94MUbCowIk.png
20:30	RealBadAngel	jungle sapling has defined flags for its tiles
20:30	RealBadAngel	so dirt with grass too
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20:35	RealBadAngel	ive found a bug while playing with those saplings
20:36	RealBadAngel	https://imgrush.com/IF7Gb2fTsbBt.png
20:37	RealBadAngel	accacia tree replaces node below the sapling with trunk node
20:37	TBC_x	unfortunate for skyblockers
20:37	RealBadAngel	not sure about other trees, going to check now
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20:43	TBC_x	which thread handles server packets?
20:46	TBC_x	Server and ClientInterface are pretty messed up
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21:36	RealBadAngel	so, only accacia tree is bugged
21:36	RealBadAngel	rest of the trees seems to be fine
21:37	TBC_x	I wish I had your problems right now
21:37	RealBadAngel	this is not mine but paramat's problem rather
21:38	RealBadAngel	propably the schematic for the tree is wrong
21:49	TBC_x	it is a problem of whoever the tree mod maintains
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22:15	TBC_x	Thos are my changes so far http://sprunge.us/NfEH
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22:18	TBC_x	and I don't know whether it fixes the problem completely
22:19	TBC_x	because EmergeThread may get into its way when Server is handling packets
22:19	TBC_x	fixing that would require a rewrite
22:19	TBC_x	probably
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22:22	TBC_x	hi VanessaE
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22:22	TBC_x	got any new crash reports?
22:23	VanessaE	hey
22:23	VanessaE	looks at stats
22:23	TBC_x	I think I may have partially fixed the problem
22:24	VanessaE	I don't see anything in the past 24h
22:24	TBC_x	partially because to fix it completely it probably will need a rewrite
22:25	VanessaE	( http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html -- 6am is the scheduled restart. The big spike right after is just routine - either minetestmapper or tar'ing up the downloadable worlds, I forget which)
22:25	VanessaE	oh yeah?
22:25	TBC_x	I haven't made a PR yet
22:25	VanessaE	(er 6am my time, 12:00 noon on the graph)
22:25	TBC_x	http://sprunge.us/NfEH
22:25	TBC_x	this is the patch
22:26	VanessaE	you said "partially".. what's missing?
22:26	TBC_x	it is a gordian knot
22:27	VanessaE	heh ok
22:27	VanessaE	patch applied, recompiling now.
22:27	TBC_x	the problem is, that packet handler is modifing client data structures directly
22:28	TBC_x	and emergeThread may step in
22:28	TBC_x	and trample each other's work
22:28	VanessaE	ah
22:28	TBC_x	in an undefined way
22:29	TBC_x	I said `it may`, because I don't have it in logs and I don't believe it
22:29	TBC_x	I mean, I don't believe the code
22:31	TBC_x	I have removed ClientInterface::getClientNoEx because It potentially leaks clients outside of the Interface mutex
22:31	TBC_x	which is happening anyway with the packet handler code
22:32	TBC_x	so the problem still persists
22:32	TBC_x	I just blocked one entry point
22:32	VanessaE	you know, I think I actually understood that :)
22:33	TBC_x	I would like to fix the problem once and for all, but given feature freeze won't allow me to do It without very very very nasty hacks
22:34	TBC_x	and I refuse to be a nasty person
22:34	VanessaE	well to be fair,
22:34	VanessaE	you're fixing a bug here, not adding a feature
22:34	VanessaE	so I'd say it's fair game
22:34	VanessaE	(the real problem isn't the advent of the freeze, it's more the length of it - time required for testing any fixes_)
22:35	TBC_x	yeah
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22:35	TBC_x	but I don't know how others will react to refactored code within freeze window
22:36	TBC_x	on the other side, I don't want to have this bug sitting in the released version
22:41	VanessaE	well if worse comes to worst, extend the freeze window long enough to iron out any new bugs caused by a refactor, seeing as how you'd need to do that ANYway to fix the original bug
22:43	TBC_x	also, a RC could be released instead
22:45	VanessaE	that's a thought
22:45	VanessaE	we haven't done an RC-alike release since....um.. 0.4.0-d1?
22:45	VanessaE	maybe once more since then
22:46	kilbith	no, 0.4.12 had a RC
22:46	kilbith	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11227
22:48	VanessaE	it did?
22:48	VanessaE	huh.
22:48	VanessaE	I'd quite forgotten about those builds.
22:48	VanessaE	still, they weren't actually tagged as -rc in the repo were they?
22:51	TBC_x	does minetest have any vertical content yet?
22:53	TBC_x	except caves
22:53	VanessaE	nope.
22:54	VanessaE	there are mods that add bedrock and some Nether-like region, and a couple that add stuff up in the sky like nyanland and floatlands
22:54	VanessaE	but nothing in-core or in minetest_game
22:54	VanessaE	(excuse me, nyancat heaven I think the first was called)
22:54	TBC_x	I would really welcome something from df universe
22:54	VanessaE	df?
22:54	TBC_x	dwarf fortress
22:54	VanessaE	dwarf?
22:55	VanessaE	right
22:55	TBC_x	hmm
22:56	TBC_x	because I've got heap-use-after-free in my log, I doubt that the patch fixed the problem
22:56	TBC_x	as I said, it fixed single entry point
22:56	* TBC_x	is looking at the logs again
22:57	TBC_x	I've just fixed concurrent write
22:57	TBC_x	from not-a-packet-handler
23:00	TBC_x	expanded template parameter is so unhelpful
23:10	TBC_x	the solution is to remove any RemoteClient *getClient() from ClientInterface
23:10	TBC_x	because that is not how interfaces work
23:19	TBC_x	https://github.com/t0suj4/minetest/commit/3449f8df5592f98c115c3884b6ac74a636feb2cd
23:20	TBC_x	I'm not gonna create a PR from that though
23:20	VanessaE	should I nuke the previous patch and pull ^^^^ that?
23:20	TBC_x	it's the same
23:21	TBC_x	I put it up just for educational purporses
23:21	TBC_x	:)
23:22	VanessaE	oh heh, ok
23:32	TBC_x	ok, lets get hands dirty
23:32	VanessaE	uh oh.
23:56	TBC_x	wtf is setting full_block_send_enable_min_time_from_building?
23:56	VanessaE	an anti-lag measure
23:57	VanessaE	if a player places a node, wait ^^^^ that amount of time before sending new mapblocks to them
23:57	VanessaE	or something similar anyway. not sure if that function still does anything now though
23:58	TBC_x	max_simul_sends_usually is awesome variable name
23:58	VanessaE	hah

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