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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-20

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Time Nick Message
01:15 leat joined #minetest-dev
01:27 johnnyjoy joined #minetest-dev
01:38 johnnyjoy Are there any plans to make the screen size of the client visible in lua on that server?
01:39 est31 johnnyjoy, what would be the usecase?
01:40 est31 Tesseract, its ok for me if hmmmm agrees.
01:40 johnnyjoy Same user case as a browser. The UI would be able to adjust to the screen better.
01:40 est31 pixel number doesnt help
01:40 est31 pixels can be different size
01:40 est31 look at retina screens
01:41 johnnyjoy That makes sense.
01:41 johnnyjoy Is there any short cut for full screening something like inventory?
01:41 est31 no, formspecs aren't fullscreen
01:41 johnnyjoy I did not think so.
01:41 johnnyjoy Thanks.
01:42 est31 they take as much as they need, if screen isn't enough, there is a problem
01:43 est31 johnnyjoy, the pr is still not ok with git
01:44 johnnyjoy Wouldn't it be easier for me to delete my repo, and start with a new fork?
01:44 est31 johnnyjoy, it seems you have two "same" commits differing in a detail, and then you made a merge commit
01:44 johnnyjoy I really am not comfortable with using up your time.
01:44 est31 no problem, now i have time
01:45 johnnyjoy What can I do about the 2 commits?
01:45 est31 so first lets find out what the commits differ
01:45 est31 there is the `git diff` tool
01:46 est31 run git diff 05e51c5 f8def41
01:46 johnnyjoy It returned nothing.
01:46 est31 thats good
01:46 johnnyjoy However with that argument, it did.
01:47 johnnyjoy Small change to 2 files.
01:48 johnnyjoy Changes to builtin/game/chatcommands.lua & CMakeLists.txt
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01:57 est31 johnnyjoy, back
01:58 johnnyjoy Glad to see you that you are.
01:58 est31 seems everything in your rebase worked fine except the final step
01:59 est31 putting the "branch pointer" onto it
01:59 est31 one of the two commits is "good" the other one "bad"
01:59 est31 the "bad" one has changes we dont want to include
02:00 johnnyjoy Okay.
02:00 est31 seems the good one is 05e51c5507
02:00 est31 just checkout the branch of your PR, then git reset --hard the commit name
02:01 est31 then push -f
02:01 johnnyjoy Just to be straight, git reset --hard 05e51c5507
02:01 est31 yes
02:03 johnnyjoy It's done.
02:04 est31 nice
02:04 est31 now one thing, the commit's author is "root"
02:04 johnnyjoy That is a positive word. I like where this is going.
02:05 est31 you should perhaps change the author to you again.
02:05 johnnyjoy Will do.
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02:06 johnnyjoy git commit --amend --author="Author Name <email@address.com>" Would something like that work?
02:07 est31 yes :)
02:07 johnnyjoy It's done.
02:41 hmmmm [05:05 PM] <paramat> hi hmmmm another one for your consideration sometime #2935
02:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2935 -- Mgv7: Use density noise + density gradient for mountain terrain by paramat
02:41 hmmmm isn't that sort of like making an entirely new mapgen at this point?
02:41 hmmmm i mean i realize it's as simple as adding a line and changing a multiplication to division, but it completely changes the shape of everything
02:42 hmmmm there are a surprising number of users who like mapgen v7 as it exists right now... i wouldn't do anything too radical with it if i were you
02:42 hmmmm [09:40 PM] <est31> Tesseract, its ok for me if hmmmm agrees.  <--- the threading cleanup?  looking now
02:42 hmmmm [05:34 PM] <Sokomine> i get crashes where gdb reports  in Mapgen::propagateSunlight(i​rr::core::vector3d<short>, irr::core::vector3d<short>) ()      when calling vm:calc_lighting(tmin, tmax) sometimes. am i using it wrong?
02:43 hmmmm sounds like paramat should take a look at this one since he's the last one to modify LuaVoxelManip::l_calc_light ;-)
02:44 hmmmm it's likely that sokomine is providing invalid input, but no lua api should ever crash with invalid input
02:50 hmmmm hmmm,  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2613/​files#diff-8f01816ac62a60ae302d07174b96e5e8R28     why move the standard lib headers to the bottom?  is there a reason in particular?  we never really decided on a formal header include ordering, but I put global includes at the top and then local includes
02:50 est31 hmmmm, all 3 of the cleanups
02:50 est31 network, threads, logging
02:50 hmmmm oh wow I forgot about the network cleanup
02:51 est31 the mod profiler cleanup is very small, but depends on logging
02:53 hmmmm what's up with these
02:53 hmmmm #define ATOMIC_ADD_EQ(T, v, x) return __sync_add_and_fetch(&(v), x);
02:53 hmmmm why the return statement??
02:53 hmmmm in fact, all of those macros look like they need work
02:54 est31 btw, is style class ClassName {
02:54 hmmmm yea
02:54 est31 or is style class ClassName
02:54 est31 {
02:54 hmmmm the first
02:54 est31 ok
02:55 hmmmm the bracket going on the next line is only for functions
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03:04 johnnyjoy est31, please let me know if there is anything else I can do.
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03:32 hmmmm alright I added some comments on the threading cleanup
03:33 hmmmm est31:  merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2828 ?
03:34 hmmmm jenkins-ci/android-nrz is kinda flakey lately
03:34 hmmmm we can ignore that failure
03:36 est31 hmmmm, its because sf.net is down
03:36 hmmmm still!?
03:37 est31 http://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-​infrastructure-and-service-restoration/
03:37 est31 "We’re holding SCM service restoration for last, and will be prioritizing Git service to be first within that process based on its fast verification path. Holding SCM restoration for last allows us to take a cautious approach and to free our staff to interact with developers if any concerns exist when the service is re-enabled."
03:37 est31 still.
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03:39 hmmmm oh man there's so much stuff to review
03:39 hmmmm it could be a full time job
03:58 est31 why do we have InvalidPositionException?
03:58 hmmmm in reference to what?
03:58 est31 most of the times we do a catch(InvalidPositionException &e){} anyways
03:58 est31 its just stupid to bother the exception handler
03:59 est31 its not zero cost when it has to handle exceptions
04:00 est31 but shrug not that important
04:11 Sokomine hmmmm: i provided the edges of the area for which light was to be calculated - and those included the shell. without parameters (and without the shell), it doesn't crash, but lighting is not updated correctly
04:16 hmmmm celeron did go a bit exception-crazy at first
04:16 hmmmm it wasn't until much later it was determined that exceptions are super freaking slow and also hard to deal with effectively
04:17 hmmmm minetest started out as this coding exercise where C++ flavor-of-the-month "best practices" were used everywhere
04:18 est31 well its still around, thanks to the fact that not the "language-of-the-month" was used
04:43 hmmmm honestly, i've found that the best C++ code eschews all features but the STL and classes
04:43 hmmmm there is a lot of crap that's more troublesome than it's worth
04:44 hmmmm in general the rule is to don't listen to what ##C++ tells you to do
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06:05 Hunterz wow too many commits and PRs last weekend... nice
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06:25 est31 Tesseract, time to review my areastore pr?
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07:00 VanessaE paramat:  are you aware that default acacia wood isn't being registered with the stairs mod?
07:08 freemint_ In lua_api.txt i read that minetest can nnot play steroe sounds positionally is this limitation still in place?
07:10 VanessaE it is still the case.
07:10 VanessaE limitation of OpenAL I think.
07:11 freemint_ ok,
07:11 freemint_ thx
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07:40 est31 hmmmm, can you remember discussions about interleaving coordinates for mapblocks?
07:40 est31 aka using z order curves
07:41 hmmmm not really
07:42 hmmmm is this for building your areastore more efficiently?
07:42 est31 no, for loading mapblocks
07:42 est31 if we store them in interleaved manner, the database perhaps aligns them on the disk that way too
07:43 est31 I dont know whether we have that guarantee
07:43 est31 if we have however, z order curves are a fine thing
07:43 est31 esp. on hard disks which have seeking time
07:43 hmmmm no we definitely do not have that guarantee
07:44 hmmmm and Z order curves aren't being used right now
07:44 est31 yes
07:44 hmmmm some insane algorithm that doesn't quite make much sense but somehow guarantees uniqueness is used instead
07:44 hmmmm if it were up to me i'd keep things extremely simple and it would just be the concatenation of each 10 bit value
07:44 hmmmm rather, 12 bit
07:45 est31 z order curves are concatenation too but per bit
07:45 hmmmm right, so X Y and Z are interleaved
07:45 est31 and closeness in the map means also closeness in ids
07:46 hmmmm I see how it works yeah
07:46 hmmmm I'm just wondering whether there would be any tangible benefit from that
07:47 est31 what do databases align the blocks after
07:47 hmmmm whatever they feel like doing..
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07:53 est31 <hmmmm> if it were up to me i'd keep things extremely simple and it would just be the concatenation of each 10 bit value
07:53 est31 isnt it that right now?
07:53 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e​79a7e2e614ea/src/database.cpp#L51
07:53 hmmmm it would seem like that, wouldn't it
07:54 hmmmm consider negative components
07:55 est31 oh
07:56 est31 err
07:56 est31 no
07:56 est31 its casted
07:56 hmmmm exactly
07:56 est31 doesnt that mean "take raw memory value"
07:56 hmmmm well not quite
07:56 hmmmm for x86/64, yes
07:57 hmmmm so consider what (u64)-1 looks like in memory
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08:28 Calinou est31, can I make the website competition topic a sticky?
08:28 est31 yes please
08:28 est31 thanks
08:29 Calinou done
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10:45 rubenwardy http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-20#i_4331860
10:45 rubenwardy Isn't it the second? The logic for braces on new line for functions is that you can't next functions
10:45 rubenwardy oh wait, you can nest classes
10:45 rubenwardy nevermind
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13:05 Routhinator An odd question as I cannot find anything on this. Is there a maximum number of Biomes allowed? Ive been trying to figure out why a few are not generating and trying to rule out "too many biomes" as a possibility.
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13:11 Zeno` I don't think there should be
13:12 Zeno` (well, there would be a limit -- everything has a limit -- but if you're encountering it something would be wrong)
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13:13 freemint_ The Biomes are stored inside a LUA table as long you do not have more biomes then a lua numer (something  like 10^42) you must only fear that your machine has not enough ram
13:14 Routhinator OK so maybe it's my humidity and temp settings. Will have to review them tonight.
13:15 freemint_ maximum number on a 64 bit 5.6* 10^300
13:16 freemint_ humidity and temp are depircated why do you use them?
13:18 Routhinator They are? I was basing my biomes off paramats biomesdev. It's still used in his. If this settings are deprecating then how do you define the humidity and temp of a biome?
13:19 freemint_ this feature was dropped
13:20 freemint_ The weather functions were dropped at Apr 18, 2014. -wiki
13:20 freemint_ http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.get_humidity http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.get_heat
13:21 freemint_ :-) sorry
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13:22 kahrl IANAMD but I'm pretty sure biome generation is still based on two noise maps called "heat" and "humidity"
13:23 kahrl they are/were unrelated to the ex-API functions get_heat and get_humidity
13:23 freemint_ Maybe it is, yes, but these are not exposed to the modding api
13:25 kahrl not directly, but heat_point and humidity_point in a biome def affect it
13:27 freemint_ ok you are rigth, look in the latest chagelog :
13:27 freemint_ Made biome heat and humidity noise parameters user-configurable (kwolekr)
13:27 freemint_ Maybe this helps.
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13:45 est31 Zeno`, you really think #2913 is caused by the pop_front function?
13:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2913 -- Unexplained, random crashes (segfaults, aborts, OOM)
13:46 est31 Yes it appears in all gdb output, but not inside the crashing thread's stack
13:46 est31 hrmm perhaps its zeno humor
13:47 Zeno` est31, I haven't traced it myself
13:47 Zeno` it seems a good place to start though
13:48 Zeno` for several reasons...
13:48 Zeno` that Mutexed thing was reimplemented not all *that* long ago
13:48 nrzkt hi Zeno` !
13:48 Zeno` howdy :)
13:49 Zeno` nrzkt, you reimplemented it :P
13:49 est31 from how I see it, the function is just "lets wait for something to happen on the producer queue"
13:49 Zeno` is pop_front properly protected and checks are in place for empty queue?
13:50 est31 my theory its blocking
13:50 Zeno` est31, possibly
13:50 est31 at least there is sem_timedwait() call from libpthread.so higher in the stack
13:51 Zeno` Why are these hard ones always so hard to reproduce? heh
13:51 Zeno` higher in the stack doesn't mean much
13:51 est31 higher, lower, depends on how you look at it
13:51 Zeno` the function higher in the stack may have been passed an invalid pointer
13:52 est31 you are in australia, everything thats up for me is down for you :)
13:52 Zeno` lmao :) nice :P
13:52 Zeno` est31, have you reproduced that bug?
13:52 est31 nope
13:53 Zeno` damn :(
13:54 est31 most of the crashes are e.g. inside constructors
13:55 est31 sign for that something terrible has happened to the heap
13:55 est31 perhaps the line before, perhaps far away
13:55 Zeno` well my main reasons for suspecting that are: a) it was changed since the last release; b) it seems like a race condition (which point to some kind of mutex fault)
13:56 Zeno` It's hard to say though because I haven't been able to reproduce. It's just a guess
13:56 nrzkt Zeno`, in reimplement what ?
13:57 Zeno` the mutexed queue
13:57 nrzkt oO
13:57 nrzkt where ?
13:57 Zeno` #2913
13:57 est31 I think container.g
13:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2913 -- Unexplained, random crashes (segfaults, aborts, OOM)
13:57 est31 .h*
13:58 Zeno` hmm
13:58 * Zeno` looks at the dumps again
13:58 nrzkt i only switch from std::list to std::queue into MutexedQueue  to have a faster container
13:59 nrzkt you said taht std::queue is thread_safe ?
13:59 est31 no, I dont think we have guarantee for that
13:59 est31 it has to be mutexed I think
13:59 Zeno` I said it was thread safe?
14:00 nrzkt i may have misunderstood what you said
14:00 Zeno` possibly, because I don't believe it would be at all
14:00 nrzkt std::queue is not threadsafe
14:00 Zeno` (language barrier possibly)
14:01 Zeno` nrzkt, I am not pointing the finger at you btw. I don't *know* if that's even the cause. It's just a guess
14:02 Zeno` and even if it was part of that change then I don't care as long as it's fixed :)
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14:02 Zeno` It could be anything. Those traces are not 100% useful because they are from release builds :(
14:02 kilbith est31: you're aware of that simpler implementation of PostGreSQL by SN ? https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=184869#p184869
14:03 Zeno` and I'd rather catch the fault and backtrace manually, but I can't reproduce
14:03 est31 Zeno`, VE does have a debug build
14:03 est31 kilbith, now i am, thanks
14:04 Zeno` hmm
14:04 nrzkt Zeno` no problem :p
14:05 Zeno` it's a tricky one :(
14:05 Zeno` you might be right though, est31
14:06 Zeno` wait time seems a bit high
14:06 Zeno` but... nah
14:06 Zeno` dammit! I will have to pay for a VPS again
14:07 Zeno` seems like the only way to reproduce heh
14:07 Zeno` hold on
14:07 Zeno` data = {vmanip = 0x0, seed = 0
14:07 Zeno` is vmanip a pointer?
14:08 est31 lotsa 0s in there
14:08 est31 vmanip = 0x0, seed = 0, blockpos_min = {X = 0, Y = 0, Z = 0}, blockpos_max = {X = 0, Y = 0, Z = 0}, blockpos_requested = {X = 0, Y = 0, Z = 0}
14:08 Zeno` what's vmanip though?
14:08 Zeno` I don't have the src handy
14:09 est31 I guess its short for "voxel manipulator"
14:09 est31 so most likely a pointer
14:09 Zeno` yeah I know that much, but does that function check for NULL ptr?
14:10 Zeno` or maybe it gets the real manipulator from somewhere else, but then why is it passed as a param?
14:11 est31 hrmm
14:11 est31 data is only declared at line 457
14:11 est31 in theory its out of scope
14:11 est31 (as stack variable)
14:11 est31 "BlockMakeData data;"
14:11 Zeno` wait...
14:12 est31 I guess the compiler did some reorderings
14:12 Zeno` where is BlockMakeData declared?
14:13 Zeno` depending on the size of an object of that type, whacking it on the stack could certainly cause a segfauly
14:13 est31 emerge.h
14:14 Zeno` well it doesn't look all that big :D
14:14 Zeno` we have another queue though...
14:15 est31 also VE's server has tons of RAM
14:15 Zeno` RAM would not matter. Do char array[29402942094]; even if you have the RAM it will segfault
14:15 est31 why
14:16 Zeno` because the stack size is set by the OS
14:16 est31 ok
14:16 Zeno` it's allocated on the stack and not the heap
14:16 Zeno` yeah
14:16 est31 I've thought stack size is unlimited, until stack and heap have a meetup.
14:19 Zeno` pretty sure it's not... write a quick test case ;)
14:23 Zeno` although with -O2 is might mitigate it
14:25 Zeno` same as it mitigates stack overflow for tail end recursion
14:26 est31 kilbith, for the record I think the older implementation is by johnnyojoy, because his copyright headers date to 2014, and his pr wasnt rebased at the start, but he didnt release it until now.
14:26 est31 fwiw
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14:30 Zeno` http://codepad.org/sggxINAq
14:32 Zeno` I doubt the array needs to be *that* large
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14:43 Zeno` maybe the queue pre-allocates some memory (but it'd probably do that on the stack so that's a red herring)
14:43 Zeno` *sigh*
14:44 Zeno` s/on the stack/on the heap
14:44 * Zeno` assigns est31 this bug
14:46 kilbith est31: ok, but SN's one looks cleaner from my standpoint
14:47 est31 what are the points you see SN did better?
14:50 kilbith "It automatically sets up the tables and only requires one extra setting (postgresql_connection_info)."
14:51 est31 yea, thats more appealing
14:51 kilbith also SN is master in polishment :p
14:51 est31 yea
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14:52 nrzkt if prefer SN implementation too
14:52 nrzkt it's very clear
14:52 nrzkt but i hope this use authentication
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14:53 Zeno` night all
14:53 Zeno` I'll be back tomorrow
14:54 kilbith nite
14:54 kilbith i guess SN intends to put it in PR (rebased recently)
14:55 est31 we should make benchmarks, and compare between interleaved, split up like in his pr, or the old "just throw it together" approaches
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14:56 est31 I wonder what SN suggests about doing with storing mod data in the database
14:57 est31 whether to make extra table
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15:00 TBC_x have you tried to compile it with sanitizers?
15:00 est31 nrzkt, #2931 needs second +1
15:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2931 -- Allow random menu images for subgames by sfan5
15:01 est31 gtg
15:04 nrzkt est31: i agree but this is annoying for redis
15:06 nrzkt est31: validated
15:06 nrzkt please note i shutdown the jenkins project for building PR for android because irrlicht source download has a problem
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15:15 H-H-H nrzkt according to the tweets it shouldnt be to long before its back up
15:15 nrzkt H-H-H thanks for the review
15:15 nrzkt does they add spyware into source with the next release ? :p
15:16 H-H-H lol nah just some bloatware instead usually :P
15:16 * H-H-H ducks
15:23 TBC_x what version of irrlicht is the android built against?
15:25 TBC_x I got the zip here http://en.osdn.jp/projects/sfnet_irrlicht/downlo​ads/Irrlicht%20SDK/1.8/1.8.1/irrlicht-1.8.1.zip/
15:25 TBC_x checksum matches with sf zip
15:29 freemint_ minetest.get_voxel_manip([p1, p2]) -- "wiki" what does the [ ] mean in this context? Or is this bullshit in the wiki?
15:36 nrzkt it's the latest if i remember
15:36 nrzkt look at jenkins logs
15:48 jin_xi freemint_: i think its interval notation, meaning its inclusive p1 and p2
15:49 freemint_ How is the usage?
15:51 freemint_ jin_xi {p1, ..... , p2} ?
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16:25 rubenwardy updated #2908
16:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2908 -- Make map limit configurable by rubenwardy
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16:46 TBC_x whoops
16:47 TBC_x double free corruption in network code
16:47 TBC_x coredump lost for some reason
16:47 TBC_x but got libc stack trace
16:48 TBC_x client
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17:30 TBC_x oh boy
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18:31 TBC_x damn: df -h /home
18:31 TBC_x Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
18:31 TBC_x /dev/sda3       274G  260G  385M 100% /home
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19:02 paramat hi sfan5, please can i merge game#582 ?
19:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/582 -- Default: Add biome API tree schematics and enable growing by sapling ABMs by paramat
19:02 sfan5 looks good
19:10 paramat thanks
19:11 paramat also if you have time, comments on game#581 ?
19:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/581 -- New stairs and slabs discussion
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19:30 paramat VanessaE yes i will add acacia to stairs soon, ^ that's the discussion issue
19:33 paramat Routhinator, maximum is 256 biomes in the biome API
19:34 paramat heat and humidity have not been dropped
19:34 hmmmm no, don't tell me somebody wants more than 256 biomes
19:35 paramat what was removed was dynamic weather, which was a dynamic variation of heat and humidity
19:35 hmmmm if so that's just dumb
19:35 hmmmm i will not modify any biome code to accomodate an absurd number of biomes
19:35 paramat no they don't, they were just checking if they had exceeded a low limit
19:35 paramat http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-20#i_4332375
19:35 hmmmm oh ok
19:35 paramat heh
19:36 paramat 256 is more than enough
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20:06 RealBadAngel so, any more comments on #2934?
20:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2934 -- Add wielded (and CAOs) shader by RealBadAngel
20:11 hmmmm i approve
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20:39 nrzkt i looked at environment code and i found a very very strange loop in the code, i don't know exactly why this is like this but i think this loop should be removed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/src/environment.cpp#L1174
20:39 nrzkt i don't see why we need to loop over active blocks multiples times to apply abm
20:41 nrzkt somebody can enlighten me about this loop ?
20:42 nrzkt i removed it from my code into AppleTree server and i didn't notice any problem with many loaded mapblocks with abm (i have many mods, like mobs from tenplus1
20:44 nrzkt hmmmm: have you got an idea ?
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21:32 nrzkt if someone can review #2940 before merge it could be good. It's a minor cleanup in the code
21:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2940 -- Remove profiler.h include where it's not needed and some unreachable code. by nerzhul
21:33 nrzkt if a dev agree, merge it
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21:54 paramat now pushing game#582
21:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/582 -- Default: Add biome API tree schematics and enable growing by sapling ABMs by paramat
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22:01 Tesseract hmmmm: I'm not sure how to fix one of your comments. I have to implement something like this: """(mutex.lock(); T _val = (op); mutex.unlock();, _val)""" (in a macro).  It has to be an expression and has to lock and unlock the mutex before returning the value of "op".
22:02 Tesseract (The return-in-macro comment)
22:03 paramat push complete
22:03 Tesseract I can do something with an inline function call, but I'd like something more concise.
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22:06 nrzkt Tesseract can you review #2940 please ?
22:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2940 -- Remove profiler.h include where it's not needed and some unreachable code. by nerzhul
22:27 Routh hmmmm: No no ridiculous 256 biomes haha, just wanted to see if 18 was too much.
22:27 Routh paramat has me sorted now though, I had too many biomes with similar heat/humidity
22:28 paramat and you can adjust the average size of biomes by adjusting the noise 'spreads' of heat and humidity noises
22:28 paramat by adding lines into .conf
22:28 Routh Gotcha, I'll look into that once I get them all working properly. Lots of tweaking left to do.
22:30 paramat if you want vertically separated biomes to appear vertically aligned they need identical heat/humidity values
22:30 Routh identical heat/humidity but distinct y_min and y_max?
22:31 Routh I was wondering, so that means I can have a 'mountain top' biome?
22:32 paramat yes
22:32 paramat if separated vertically you can use identical biome points
22:32 paramat my systems are based on https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi​a/en/2/29/PrecipitationTempBiomes.jpg
22:33 paramat plus a glacier biome in extreme cold
22:35 Routh Yes I reused some of yours directly, hope you don't mind.
22:36 paramat of course not =)
22:37 Routh The funny thing is this is the easy part of my plan. The City Ruins biome will be the hardest for my subgame, and thus I'm saving it for last.
22:38 paramat nice idea, i like generative architecture
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22:52 hmmmm Tesseract:  Hmm, I see your plight
22:52 hmmmm this might be a good situation for inline functions
22:53 hmmmm but then again you need actual text substitution here
22:57 hmmmm Tesseract:  Oh well, it can't be helped
22:59 hmmmm nrzkt, that is not a loop, it's a silly way to avoid goto
23:00 hmmmm usually whenever you see a do { } while (0) in the actual code (not a macro definition) this is a good candidate to be made into a function
23:44 TBC_x wtf? I just found a 3.2 GB plaintext file on my disk
23:44 TBC_x and it is not a log
23:48 TBC_x it is random sequence of bytes in ascii... looks like xxd output

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