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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-17

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Time Nick Message
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03:16 est31 btw, for the record, I have not agreed to have a c++ kick all functionality merged without having a new server ping protocol
03:17 est31 I have agreed that once we have such a protocol, we can kick all legacy clients
03:17 est31 because if you are using legacy you can expect inferior functionality
03:17 est31 but not if you are on latest master/release
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03:28 hmmmm i thought kicking all clients was okay
03:28 hmmmm it only occurs on unhandled C++ exceptions
03:29 hmmmm and only for the serverthread
03:30 hmmmm the only way this can really mess up is if the exception originated while sending packets, at which point nothing would be lost since the worst that can happen is that the packets simply won't get sent, which is the status quo
03:38 est31 I'm concerned about continuity. If players are conditioned that the server doesn't kick them, a crash without a message won't be a very big deal. If however they are accustomed to getting kicked, they will be suprised when a c++ crash occurs.
03:39 est31 either way, I'll make those messages configureable, and cache the wstring, ok?
04:15 est31 this is shit
04:16 est31 I have asked a question yesterday and NOBODY has replied except calinou
04:16 est31 they all just come out of their holes when they think something went wrong
04:16 est31 then they rant "how could you do that"
04:17 est31 seems there is no other way to do something
04:17 est31 than to do it, and check for complaints
04:17 est31 and if there are, ignore them, because then its too late
04:19 est31 http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-15#i_4324844
04:19 est31 hmmmm, kahrl sfan5 Tesseract
04:19 est31 ^
04:20 hmmmm honestly i have no idea about git submodules or subtrees
04:20 hmmmm \(O_o)/
04:20 hmmmm but #1 sounds the best of those
04:31 est31 1. might make it harder for inexperienced people to get translations
04:31 est31 e.g. no git knowledge
04:32 est31 but otoh, they have enough knowledge to compile...
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04:33 est31 hmmmm, what about this: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​ac7894eee12ddd11b738d24f725644114c7d9a46
04:34 est31 I want to make it configureable, so that the owners can display custom messages.
04:34 hmmmm is a setting really needed for that
04:34 est31 e.g. experienced people have auto-restart
04:34 hmmmm hm well why not i guess
04:34 est31 currently we assume every server has auto restart
04:35 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/f9dbec6edf94ce20d52d38569545674cfb742eae​#diff-ad60d65b34e16a3319296bb5d683acd6R505
04:35 hmmmm instead of "the server has crashed. disconnecting all players" maybe make it something like "This server has experienced an internal error.  You will now be disconnected."
04:35 hmmmm sounds more professional imo
04:36 est31 yea
04:37 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​bf7174f3f98f0ac665e093aaa3e332f8bd29b64b
04:38 est31 how many +1 does this need in your opinion?
04:38 est31 also, do you +1?
04:38 hmmmm it's not that controversial
04:38 hmmmm sure, why not.
04:38 hmmmm it looks fine
04:39 est31 pushed
04:41 est31 originally, i have wanted to use nrz's new accessdenied packet
04:42 est31 which sends an u8 reason
04:42 est31 so i'd have added additional reasons
04:42 est31 but then i found out its not future proof at all
04:43 est31 because if a client encounters an "unknown" access denied packet, it sets the message to "unknown"
04:43 est31 thats not nice
04:44 est31 instead, the server should pass a "fallback string" to the client, so that it can use that if it can't take the reason string
04:44 hmmmm indeed
04:44 hmmmm this is why things need lots of review before they get added
04:44 est31 turns out the packet itself already has a field with a string
04:45 est31 its read by the client if the reason equals SERVER_ACCESSDENIED_CUSTOM_STRING
04:45 hmmmm this is really poor design
04:45 hmmmm if you say nerzhul added it, then we can still change it
04:45 hmmmm it's not written in stone until there's a release
04:45 est31 yup
04:45 est31 its only used in protocol 25
05:01 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​a9213fd12c3325f86ac46b2e94a5da701407edf3
05:03 est31 I will make a pr, so that nrz can comment on it.
05:05 est31 #2920
05:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2920 -- Protocol 25: Make access deny packet future proof by est31
05:05 sfan5 est31: >being awake at 05:30
05:05 sfan5 morning
05:05 sfan5 git submodules sound like a good idea
05:05 sfan5 they are also not that hard to use
05:06 sfan5 you either do git submodule init && git submodule update
05:06 sfan5 or specificy --recursive when cloning the repo
05:06 sfan5 it might break existing scripts that rely on the repo being complete as-is though
05:06 sfan5 and we need to push an update commit to master when the translations repo changed
05:07 est31 or on a timed basis, every month or so
05:08 est31 after all, its to reduce commit noise
05:08 sfan5 hm
05:08 sfan5 shouldn't the 'accept the noise' solution be pretty ok if you we only merge translations before a release?
05:13 est31 I dunno
05:16 est31 i dont even know whether you can turn off the "merge upstream into weblate/master" commits
05:16 est31 50% of the weblate commits are these things
05:17 est31 "Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master'"
05:19 est31 ah very fine
05:19 est31 there is a "rebase" button
05:21 est31 to give an image of the "noise": in 10 days we had 7 weblate commits.
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05:23 est31 I'll make a test-push with 3., and see whether people like it
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05:57 RealBadAngel hi
05:57 RealBadAngel whats up?
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06:30 est31 as an example how noisy it can get: https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/commits/master
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06:44 kahrl est31: why do we need a new ping protocol?
06:45 nrzkt for the future
06:45 nrzkt est31 is not here :p
06:45 kahrl I assume he reads the logs
06:45 nrzkt okay
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06:46 nrzkt i discussed about a ping protocol to use when we will use enet  (and also legacy for a time) to disconnect the client in case of server long response time or a server crash
06:47 nrzkt i will propose the PR later
06:48 kahrl yeah but such a protocol is already in place
06:48 kahrl both in our current lower level protocol and (according to its docs) enet
06:48 kahrl all that needs to be done is something like https://gist.github.com/kahrl/f58cce9dd468045c8fa4
06:49 nrzkt the patchs looks good to me
06:49 nrzkt could you provide a PR ?
06:49 kahrl sure
06:52 kahrl #2921
06:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2921 -- Display an access denied message when client detects a server timeout by kahrl
06:59 nrzkt okay, you can merge in 30mins
07:00 kahrl I'd like to hear what est31 says about it first
07:00 nrzkt if you can fix the spaces on the message before your commit
07:00 nrzkt i'm the network maintainer :)
07:01 kahrl yeah but it's exactly the type of stuff he has been doing lately :)
07:01 kahrl so I'd like his input
07:01 kahrl what do you mean about the spaces?
07:02 nrzkt infostream<<"toto" => infostream << "toto"
07:02 nrzkt :)
07:02 kahrl oh, I see
07:04 kahrl pushed
07:07 nrzkt thanks
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07:15 * VanessaE peeks in
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07:24 est31 nrzkt, what exactly is your problem with 2920?
07:25 nrzkt do it properly
07:25 est31 how do you mean it?
07:25 nrzkt add two new codes to the enum
07:25 nrzkt use it when you send the packet
07:25 est31 thats unrelated to the pr!
07:25 nrzkt you talked about kicking player with message when server crash
07:26 est31 I only said that as you asked me which new reasons we could possibly need
07:26 est31 then I brought those as example
07:26 nrzkt what is the goal of the PR then ?
07:26 nrzkt then i give you the solution
07:26 nrzkt your PR is not a solution, it's a unproper protocol solution
07:26 est31 removing complexity from code
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07:27 est31 so that we can easily add new access denied reasons
07:27 est31 without 3 versions to check against
07:27 nrzkt the problem is not to add easily access denied reason
07:27 est31 I agree, we perhaps send more content over the network
07:27 nrzkt it's to define with reasons should be added to core
07:27 est31 but thats a trade to do in my opinion
07:28 nrzkt maybe, but the goal is not to simplify the coder life but to have a proper protocol
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07:28 nrzkt kicking players on shutdown / lua crash should be standardized, i missed to think about it yesterday and you pointed it, it's good :)
07:29 nrzkt we need to see now all reasons which should be added before release on ACCESS DENIED to handle it now for the protocol bump
07:29 est31 we can't just raise the protocol because of every single simple thing
07:29 nrzkt we can. A protocol is not stucked
07:29 nrzkt we just need to handle it and be retrocompat, like other parts of code
07:30 nrzkt and after code maintenance timeout on retrocompat code we remove it
07:30 est31 no timeout
07:30 est31 we should look at what our users use
07:30 est31 and remove retrocompat code based on that
07:31 est31 if less than ten percent use it, remove it
07:31 est31 not until then
07:31 nrzkt i agree with that
07:31 est31 good
07:31 nrzkt based on public server list call
07:31 est31 yea
07:32 nrzkt it's okay for me, 1 year check on public server list versions to know which code should be removed
07:32 nrzkt then, now proper access denied code :D
07:32 nrzkt this is time before release to do this properly, after release this will cause problems
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07:33 nrzkt it's not a huge modification
07:33 Warr1024 it'd be nice to have an indicator in your kick message whether or not rejoining is contraindicated...
07:33 est31 thats why i made it configureable
07:33 Warr1024 ...paving the way for client auto-rejoin in the future...
07:34 est31 server owners which establish auto restart can set it up
07:34 nrzkt Warr1024: then we could handle directly the code to auto restart connection
07:34 nrzkt instead of handling a std::string...
07:35 nrzkt if (access_denied_code == ACCESSDENIED_CRASH) { reconnectClient(); }
07:35 est31 yeah
07:36 nrzkt autorestart is not a bad idea, but we need to send some config to client
07:36 est31 ?
07:36 nrzkt how can the client know he should restart ?
07:36 nrzkt if it's a server side config
07:36 Warr1024 just send a bool
07:36 nrzkt yes, a new packet for client
07:37 nrzkt TOCLIENT_SEND_CONFIGS
07:37 est31 no
07:37 nrzkt this could be useful to send many new config types
07:37 est31 i think there are already packets sent where we could add that
07:37 nrzkt in the INIT ?
07:37 est31 no
07:37 est31 after it
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07:38 est31 we should look at which packet suits well
07:38 nrzkt okay if you find a good packet, else it's not a huge problem to have a custom packet, it permit to change parameters online
07:38 nrzkt if admin set  /config clients disable_autoreconnect => SEND_CONFIGS (auto_reconnect => false)
07:39 nrzkt this could be interesting and extendable
07:39 nrzkt extensible*
07:39 Warr1024 wait, you're talking server-wide?
07:39 nrzkt i think about an api to send some configs t oclients, but yes this could be client side only
07:39 nrzkt with a setting checkbox
07:40 est31 what?
07:41 nrzkt where do you think autoreconnect does be configured ?
07:41 nrzkt client side or server side setting sent to client ?
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07:41 nrzkt i think this could be only a client side setting for this
07:41 Warr1024 clients should be able to turn on/off auto reconn themselves, but it'd be nice to have the server have a veto over it to advise the client to turn it off, if the client is being disconnected for a reason that isn't easily retryable
07:41 est31 yes
07:41 est31 the server should send to clients whether such a mechanism is established
07:41 VanessaE outside of minetest, e.g. for an IRC server there's usually some kind of reconnect rate limiting as well.
07:42 est31 but I wonder what to do for backups
07:42 Warr1024 it could be that the server is shutting down (all clients) or that that one client is unwelcome for whatever reason (specific client only)
07:42 est31 usually, if there is a crash, the server comes back up pretty fast
07:42 est31 but with backups, it can have some downtime
07:42 Warr1024 send an advised wait time?
07:42 est31 thats the next question
07:43 nrzkt if the server crash he cannot advertise client of restauring backup
07:43 Warr1024 or just let the client keep retrying until it either connects or user cancels.
07:43 nrzkt if it's a scheduled downtime, a normal downtime, don't reconnect client
07:43 nrzkt auto-reconnect only on crash
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07:43 VanessaE If there were some way for an outside process to order Minetest to shutdown AND pass an appropriate message, that would be perfect
07:43 est31 thats a good tradeof nrzkt
07:43 VanessaE for example kill -SIGUSR1 or something
07:43 Warr1024 no, I would want to auto-reconnect after backups too.
07:44 VanessaE call it a "special notice" version of the regular shutdown message
07:44 est31 Warr1024, some servers have fast backups, some dont
07:44 Warr1024 mine very doesn't
07:44 nrzkt the backup process with a schedule downtime is not the problem of the cleint, but of the admin communication
07:44 VanessaE plug in your "the server is making backups.  please check back in 'n' minutes" there
07:44 VanessaE nrzkt: no, but it's neither of these
07:45 est31 VanessaE, its sorta possible right now
07:45 est31 you can use the setting like a variable
07:45 nrzkt yes, it's possible atm with a mod
07:45 est31 lemme see how its called
07:45 Warr1024 I don't necessarily want to have to babysit the thing, though, if I'm trying to maintain an idle connection to watch my crops grow...
07:45 nrzkt kick all playyers with a custom message
07:45 est31 kick_msg_shutdown
07:45 VanessaE how would a mod know that the shutdown request was because of a backup versus say, the admin Ctrl-C'ing it?
07:45 est31 set that to "the server is going down for backups"
07:45 nrzkt in Lua custom message is used, you can have a mod which kick all players and shutdown th eserver
07:46 VanessaE in both cases the server gets a SIGINT
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07:46 est31 VanessaE, after the backup you can reset the message to something generic
07:46 nrzkt if you do a SIGINT on server, this is a normal down, there is no reason
07:46 est31 this is nothing minetest can know, only the person controlling it
07:47 est31 nrzkt, see my commit today earlier
07:47 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/bf7174f3f98f0ac665e093aaa3e332f8bd29b64b
07:47 VanessaE est31: you're missing my point - how can a mod possibly know which message should be in effect at any one time?
07:48 nrzkt est31: when we will use a proper code this commit will be useless
07:48 est31 nrzkt, yes
07:48 nrzkt VanessaE: create a mod which kick all clients and shutdown server
07:48 est31 no
07:48 nrzkt this will send the message your want to users
07:48 est31 no
07:48 VanessaE nrzkt: no.
07:48 est31 that will add Reason: Kicked:
07:49 est31 because its appended to the access denied reason
07:49 est31 thats the only function the lua api can access
07:49 VanessaE how does the mod know that the shutdown request was a backup (== 5+ mins downtime) versus an admin-requested shutdown for a quick restart?
07:49 nrzkt Because you type /shutdown "restarting server in 5 minutes"
07:49 VanessaE type?
07:50 nrzkt write
07:50 VanessaE on what?
07:50 nrzkt on the minetest chat
07:50 VanessaE you mean the minetest chat that's not open?
07:50 VanessaE I'm talking about headless control
07:50 Warr1024 you'd need a command pupe or something to control the server externally
07:50 est31 nrzkt means something i have done with the kickall mod
07:50 nrzkt we don't have a console on minetest
07:50 VanessaE Warr1024: exactly
07:50 est31 there you have /kshutdown message to users
07:50 nrzkt est31: this is the right way
07:51 VanessaE my point is I'd like my backup script, which currently issues `kill -INT <pid>` to shut down, to be able to tell the users via some external hook, or signal, or whatever, that the server's shutting down for backups.
07:51 Warr1024 unfortunately, the minetest client doesn't run so great under cron.
07:51 VanessaE MANY users seem to be unaware of the concept of a daily shutdown + backup
07:52 nrzkt kill -INT doesn't have goal to send a custom message to players
07:52 est31 nrzkt, VanessaE you are both right
07:52 VanessaE *facepalm*
07:52 est31 the right way is to do something over the chat
07:52 nrzkt we need a minetestctl shutdown "Reason"
07:52 VanessaE (at nrz)
07:52 nrzkt if you want this goal
07:52 VanessaE nrzkt: yes, exactly
07:52 est31 yes
07:52 VanessaE but it can be a LOT simpler
07:52 nrzkt but atm minetest doesn't have this tool
07:53 nrzkt the problem is not to do it simpler, but do it right.
07:53 est31 nice bash interface
07:53 VanessaE kill -USR1 minetestserver ---> triggers a secondary "special" disconnect message instead of kick_msg_shutdown or kick_msg_crash
07:53 nrzkt no
07:53 nrzkt SIGUSR1 is handled differently on other UNIX systems and isn't named like this
07:53 VanessaE well it doesn't HAVE to be USR1
07:53 est31 what do you mean
07:54 VanessaE that was just the first thing that came to mind
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07:54 VanessaE ANY signal the program can catch that doesn't immediately terminate it
07:54 est31 we need some way of ipc which allows it
07:54 est31 whether its sigusr
07:54 Warr1024 whatb systems don't have a usable USR1?
07:54 est31 or we use dbus
07:54 est31 or pipes
07:54 est31 or a text file
07:54 VanessaE Warr1024: none I've ever heard of.
07:54 VanessaE dbus, G*d forbid :P
07:54 est31 or we just connect to the server at the port, i dont know
07:55 VanessaE "The SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 signals are set aside for you to use any way you want. They're useful for simple interprocess communication, if you write a signal handler for them in the program that receives the signal."
07:55 est31 you know, have it as feature of the protocol, hi server im a client, but i dont want to be spawned into the world, chat and commands only, like irc commands
07:55 VanessaE ( www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_​node/Miscellaneous-Signals.html )
07:55 est31 gnu is not unix
07:56 VanessaE you mean "GNU's Not Unix" ;)
07:56 est31 yes :p
07:56 Warr1024 est31: or maybe an "admin mode" connection that's limited and requires some kind of auth...
07:56 Warr1024 est31: could use the same packet structure and port, though
07:57 VanessaE but I'm *pretty* sure if they're talking libc signals, they're pretty standard :P
07:57 VanessaE Warr1024: too complicated to control from an outside script
07:57 est31 Warr1024, whether to limit it to admins or not isnt the important part here, i think
07:57 est31 VanessaE, you can provide a nice wrapper for it
07:57 Warr1024 if any system doesn't support USR1, then it probably also doesn't support mt already.
07:58 est31 minetest --headless server port passwordfile --chat "/shutdown message"
07:58 nrzkt BSD is not linux VanessaE
07:58 Warr1024 VanessaE: i'm assuming, w/ the proto suggestion, that there'd be a scriptable minetestctl client to interface w/
07:58 est31 ^
07:58 VanessaE I try not to assume :P
07:59 nrzkt okay for a minetestctl but not for this release, it's too short
07:59 Warr1024 also, I run BSD myself, and don't see USR1 as being unusable for this...?
07:59 est31 yes
07:59 nrzkt okay for adding it to next roadmap for me if other devs are okay
07:59 nrzkt BSD is a bad example, we should look at other unixes supported
07:59 est31 I'd like to not call it minetestctl
07:59 est31 reminds me of systemd
07:59 nrzkt minetestctl is UNIX
08:00 nrzkt it's not from systemd but UNIX
08:00 nrzkt look at every BSD
08:00 nrzkt smtpctl, ospfctl, bgpctl, ripctl, ntpctl
08:00 est31 yes, but blablactl is systemd stench
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08:00 nrzkt no
08:00 est31 yes
08:00 nrzkt it's UNIX
08:00 nrzkt systemd only use UNIX named for this
08:00 nrzkt names*
08:00 Warr1024 minetestctl is what it should be called.
08:00 est31 systemd is unix rape
08:00 VanessaE lol
08:01 Warr1024 we can't just let systemd ruin *ctl for everyone.
08:01 nrzkt but systemd named things correctly, unlike many gnu shits
08:01 VanessaE don't sugar-coat it, est31.  tell us what you REALLY think.
08:01 est31 ntpctl: command not found
08:01 est31 lol
08:01 nrzkt you are not on a UNIX
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08:01 nrzkt [1] root@jenkins> ls /usr/bin/*ctl                                                                                                                                                    ~
08:01 Warr1024 if minetestctl ends up colliding with a systemctl script name, I'd consider that a plus :-)
08:02 est31 lotsa whitespace
08:02 nrzkt /usr/bin/iscsictl/usr/bin/rctl/usr/bin/usbhidctl
08:02 nrzkt sorry :p
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08:02 nrzkt on a native FreeBSD
08:02 est31 akonadictl
08:02 est31 balooctl
08:02 nrzkt /usr/bin/alsactl    /usr/bin/coredumpctl  /usr/bin/keyctl      /usr/bin/netctl      /usr/bin/pccardctl  /usr/bin/systemctl    /usr/bin/vde_tunctl
08:02 est31 ^ these things make me hate my distro
08:02 nrzkt /usr/bin/apachectl  /usr/bin/cupsctl      /usr/bin/localectl   /usr/bin/networkctl  /usr/bin/plugctl    /usr/bin/teamdctl     /usr/bin/wdctl
08:03 nrzkt apachectl !!
08:03 est31 akonadi and baloo are search bloat programs whose indexers require 100% CPU and more
08:03 nrzkt if you use KDE it's not my problem, i'm only sorry for u :p
08:04 est31 well regardless how its named, we need it
08:04 nrzkt minetestctl make sense, but we are evading our problem here, the shutdown message :p
08:04 est31 as long as its not called minetest-ctl
08:04 nrzkt i don't agree with -
08:05 nrzkt this is not UNIXlike
08:05 est31 just because the arch package is named that way
08:05 nrzkt no
08:05 nrzkt community/minetest 0.4.12-2 [installed]
08:05 nrzkt Multiplayer infinite-world block sandbox game
08:05 nrzkt community/minetest-common 0.4.12-2 [installed]
08:05 nrzkt Common data files for minetest and minetest-server
08:05 nrzkt community/minetest-server 0.4.12-2 [installed]
08:05 nrzkt Server of infinite-world block sandbox game
08:05 Warr1024 if we use USR1, we can't specify a custom message unless it's pre-set in config, but that wouldn't be a show-stopper, and it'd probably be a good first step to making this usable and seeing how it works in practice.
08:06 VanessaE Warr1024: that's exactly what I was proposing.
08:06 nrzkt okay then
08:06 nrzkt if SIGUSR1 is available on all our supported UNIX systems
08:06 est31 and on windows
08:06 nrzkt server doesn't run on windows ?
08:07 nrzkt there is only the client, no ?
08:07 Calinou the dedicated server runs on Windows, and we intend to keep that.
08:07 Warr1024 if it's not available on a particular system, we could either use a different signal in porting code, or leave the feature off problematic platforms.
08:07 nrzkt okay Calinou
08:07 nrzkt Warr1024, porting make sense
08:07 Warr1024 windows users are not going to script backups anyway.
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08:08 Warr1024 those platforms must surely offer SOME reasonable IPC we can use, though.
08:08 VanessaE default could be,  message_on_sigusr1 = "Server shutdown by Admin request."
08:08 nrzkt then, here is what to do: first => use a proper ACCESSDENIED code for our current use
08:09 VanessaE (vague enough to mean just about anything, but configurable)
08:09 nrzkt second handle the signal which a kick all and custom message
08:09 est31 no
08:09 est31 first we need reconnect
08:09 nrzkt then use proper ACCESSDENIED codes before
08:09 est31 thats why we need the signal the first place
08:09 nrzkt because you will need to handle them
08:10 est31 es
08:10 est31 yes*
08:10 est31 first ACCESSDENIED
08:10 est31 then reconnect
08:10 Warr1024 VanessaE: yeah, or "Server shutting down for maintenance, please reconnect soon(ish)" or "Server restarting" maybe...
08:10 nrzkt and
08:10 est31 then signal
08:10 VanessaE Warr1024: exactly
08:10 nrzkt because we are in a protocol bump est31 i allow a thing on the new ACCESSDENIED_SHUTDOWN : have a suffix with the custom std::string on client
08:10 VanessaE whatever the message is, it should be generic but distinct from the current two
08:10 VanessaE by default.
08:11 est31 we have three accessdenied codes then
08:11 Warr1024 or "Planned shutdown, but you idiot admin forgot to edit this message."  :-)
08:11 est31 heh
08:11 VanessaE lol
08:11 VanessaE that's perfect ;D
08:11 kahrl why bake more behaviour on certain signals into the core?
08:11 kahrl I'd prefer an API to hook signals and let mods do whatever with it
08:11 nrzkt why 3 ?
08:11 est31 becuz lazy
08:11 est31 (to kahrl)
08:12 Warr1024 kahrl: I think the issue here is that it's not readily apparent how external scripts should be able to communicate with mods...
08:12 est31 nrzkt, we need ACCESSDENIED_SHUTDOWN_RECONNECT ACCESSDENIED_CRASH and ACCESSDENIED_SHUTDOWN_NORECONNECT
08:12 est31 perhaps even ACCESSDENIED_CRASH_RECONNECT
08:12 est31 so 4
08:12 Warr1024 kahrl: are you suggesting maybe minetest.register_on_signal(...)?
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08:12 est31 then we dont need that config packet
08:12 kahrl Warr1024: yeah, something like that
08:12 est31 or find another packet
08:13 est31 there is an age old pr for that
08:13 est31 or is it only issue??
08:13 Warr1024 kahrl: actually, yeah, I'm kinda starting to like that idea :-)
08:13 kahrl then we could close #116 too :)
08:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/116 -- Support signals with Lua API
08:14 est31 #116
08:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/116 -- Support signals with Lua API
08:14 est31 yea
08:14 kahrl :P
08:14 est31 :D
08:14 nrzkt est31 merge ACCESSDENIED_SHUTDOWN_RECONNECT & ACCESSDENIED_SHUTDOWN_RECONNECT in ACCESSDENIED_SHUTDOWN (u8 code, std::string custom, bool reconnect)
08:15 est31 nrzkt, perhaps lets make a new packet for this?
08:15 nrzkt not needed there
08:15 nrzkt just add a flag for reconnect into the ACCESS_DENID packet
08:16 nrzkt but just handle it on SHUTDOWN and CRASH
08:17 est31 makes sense
08:17 est31 ok to that
08:18 est31 still i think we should provide a fallback string to make these things possible without raising the protocol version and adding more complexity
08:18 nrzkt perfect, i must work on my real work now, i listen to the chan, but be more slow on responses :p
08:18 nrzkt handle client protocol version to use custom string for <= 25
08:18 nrzkt (if current version is version, didn't remember)
08:19 est31 other's opinion on #2920 ?
08:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2920 -- Protocol 25: Make access deny packet future proof by est31
08:20 est31 (i have the nrz opinon already)
08:20 nrzkt xD
08:21 Warr1024 "future-proof" should almost always be "future-resistant"; there's potentially an awful lot of future, and it can be very persistent.
08:22 nrzkt :)
08:29 Calinou rebuilding Minetest since Debian stretch's libhiredis went from 0.10 to 0.13...
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08:36 est31 nrzkt, so your argument against 2920 was that the overhead created by the server which sends the fallback if not needed is too much?
08:36 est31 well I think the opposite, but i will close the pr for the sake of agreement
08:38 est31 one idea though, to make us not regret this descision: what about adding the client side part of the pr, then we can always decide otherwise in the future
08:38 nrzkt it's not only the overhead, it's a clean protocol use
08:38 est31 ?
08:38 nrzkt can you explain what do you mean with cleint side part ?
08:39 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/pull/2920/files?diff=unified#diff-8​0833cc92bd95c628787db9b919fe87cR220
08:40 nrzkt i don't think it's useful on core side
08:40 nrzkt but i agree for shutdown new codes it could be good
08:40 nrzkt shutdown message is new, we can design it properly then :)
08:41 nrzkt other core messages are fixed and can be translated, this is good for users
08:42 nrzkt then i don't think this PR is useful sorry, the idea is good, but the design doesn't match the packet design
08:44 est31 what about a less intrusive version
08:44 est31 you said the idea is good
08:44 est31 what does that mean?
08:44 est31 I am changeing packet design here yes
08:45 est31 also without providing compatability with older versions in one case yes
08:45 est31 but protocol 25 isn't used that often yet
08:45 est31 its not officially released
08:45 nrzkt yes but it's used :s
08:45 est31 only in git
08:45 est31 also its not a major feature
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08:45 nrzkt you are right, this is a real problem that clients use our development clients
08:46 nrzkt we could add the feature to protocol v 25 and say to clients in protocol v25 on git, upgrade instead of whine
08:46 * H-H-H waits patiently for the irrlicht sf page to come back online
08:46 est31 so i think its consensus that if the change doesnt destroy important things like chat or ability to craft, it can be done without raising protocol verison#
08:47 est31 thats what i think too nrzkt
08:47 nrzkt then it's okay for me
08:47 nrzkt protocol v25 will be stopped at feature freeze
08:47 nrzkt deve*
08:48 est31 so i can push 2920 now? I will make additional PR with the shutdown messages.
08:48 nrzkt no
08:49 nrzkt i'm against it sorry
08:49 est31 so what did you say ok to before?
08:49 est31 please state yourself more clearly
08:50 est31 or did you say ok to the less intrusive client side only verison
08:50 nrzkt i think we should focus on shutdown message handling first
08:50 nrzkt and reconnect
08:50 nrzkt this is the most important feature to add for release
08:51 est31 this should be done before release too
08:51 est31 to allow us not regret it
08:51 est31 to*
08:51 nrzkt later we will re-talk about it
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09:09 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/master-server/pull/6
09:09 rubenwardy server#6
09:09 rubenwardy master-server#6
09:09 rubenwardy nope :P
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09:10 kilbith rubenwardy: you should penalize the old versions as well
09:10 rubenwardy separate issue
09:11 rubenwardy the problem is that we support multiple versions, and the list is sorted globally
09:11 rubenwardy should old clients not see old servers penalised?
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09:11 kilbith yes because they don't give the best image of MT
09:12 kilbith and likely no longer maintained
09:12 est31 we support them, but we dont endorse them
09:12 rubenwardy With that logic, penalise Just Test
09:12 kilbith exactly
09:12 est31 no
09:12 rubenwardy It doesn't give the best image of MT#
09:12 kilbith quality servers should be enthroned on top of the list
09:12 rubenwardy I see what you mean though
09:12 est31 we shouldnt penalize servers based on how often their admin logs in
09:13 est31 the admin's goal with the server is apparently to have it moderator-less
09:13 rubenwardy That's not what I'm saying, Just Test is all stone
09:13 est31 and to have democracy
09:13 kilbith that doesn't mean that the admins are competent if they log often
09:13 est31 there people can vote for kicks
09:13 est31 are you  against democracy rubenwardy ?
09:13 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> That's not what I'm saying, Just Test is all stone
09:13 est31 ??
09:14 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/download/​file.php?mode=view&amp;id=1512&amp;s​id=328c276043563b0052bee789371fc829
09:14 kilbith just test is not worth being under the spotlights at all
09:14 kilbith not constantly
09:14 nrzkt i agree with the penality for old versioned server, but not a big penality
09:14 VanessaE my "Basic" server generally beats out "just test"
09:14 VanessaE so maybe the list is working as intended anyway?
09:15 est31 yes i think
09:15 kilbith VanessaE: your servers would be more favorized with penalization of old clients
09:15 VanessaE case in point, just now it moved to the #1 spot again (it bounces among the top 3 or so, at this time of night)
09:15 est31 perhaps people dont care about the mapgen
09:15 VanessaE kilbith: penalize old *clients*???
09:15 kilbith oops
09:15 kilbith i meant "old versions" sorry
09:16 VanessaE penalizing old server versions I can see an argument for, but that won't affect e.g. just test, it's 0.4.12-dev
09:16 kilbith it is already penalized with guest detection
09:16 kilbith but not enough
09:16 VanessaE *nod*
09:16 est31 we shouldnt penalize 0.4.12 stable, nobody should be blamed for using a stable version
09:17 kilbith sure
09:17 rubenwardy I was going to say that est31, but I thought it was obvious
09:17 rubenwardy * latest stable version
09:17 est31 it is sorta
09:17 VanessaE well right now I count about 5 "gbibberish" names and two guests there
09:17 kilbith but penalizing < 0.4.11 is okay
09:17 est31 yea
09:17 VanessaE -b
09:17 rubenwardy aksi > 0.5-dev
09:17 rubenwardy *also
09:17 VanessaE yeah I guess I could agree with that
09:18 VanessaE and ruben's suggestion too
09:18 est31 there is no 0.5-dev
09:18 VanessaE penalize that which strays too far from "normal"
09:18 rubenwardy http://servers.minetest.net/
09:18 rubenwardy 4.firc.de:300011/25   1/130.5.0-dev, minetest, v6Free mining [EU]Mine here for free
09:18 est31 no
09:18 VanessaE 4.firc.de:300011/25   1/130.5.0-dev, minetest, v6Free mining [EU]Mine here for freeDed Dmg Pwd Rol Far10.0m, 160.1d15, 100
09:18 kilbith show up more quality and less quantitative servers
09:18 VanessaE damn, ninja
09:18 VanessaE 'd
09:18 rubenwardy :P
09:18 est31 we should endorse diversity not ban it
09:19 VanessaE that's the only one in the list though, and it's already near the bottom anyways
09:19 rubenwardy Yeah, diversity should be rewarded
09:19 est31 well the firc.de admin did something weird here
09:19 est31 we dont have 0.5.0-dev
09:19 VanessaE est31: I assumed he pulled from the 0.5-dev branch when it was still being considered.
09:19 rubenwardy He maybe using the 0.5-dev branch
09:19 kilbith pure chaos can be considered as part of diversity ?
09:19 VanessaE and I still see users asking once in a while when 0.5 comes out
09:19 rubenwardy now you ninja'd me
09:20 est31 VanessaE, idk, perhaps we release 0.5 after 0.4.13 perhaps its 1.0.0 or something else
09:20 est31 i have no idea
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09:34 nrzkt -stable and -dev and -wtf shouldn't be a criteria
09:35 rubenwardy actually, the bonus for game_time is limited at 8 months, so there's probably no need to penalise for unrealistic servers
09:35 nrzkt est31, why 0.4.12 and not 0.5.0 ? we have a huge amount of features on this release which can justify 0.5.0
09:36 est31 nrzkt, please dont discuss this with me, i give a shit about which version comes next
09:36 est31 I just want **some** release
09:36 est31 at august 10
09:36 est31 or whenever we have fixed all blocker bugs
09:37 VanessaE 0.5.0 doesn't follow the new versioning scheme we wanted to use
09:37 VanessaE semver or whatever it's called
09:37 est31 but not in two months
09:37 est31 also not in three months
09:37 VanessaE no
09:37 VanessaE 0.4.13 for that one.
09:37 nrzkt est31 okay for a release but it's not a minor release
09:37 kilbith +1 with VE
09:38 nrzkt what is the new versionning scheme ?
09:38 VanessaE but when the time comes to seriously say "it's time for 0.5.0", that's when we go with 1.0.0 instead.
09:38 VanessaE nrzkt: Semantic Versioning
09:38 nrzkt can you be more precise ?
09:38 Calinou semver.org
09:38 VanessaE major.minor.patchlevel
09:38 VanessaE http://semver.org/
09:38 nrzkt okay
09:38 VanessaE bah, ninja'd
09:39 nrzkt i agree with this schem
09:39 nrzkt but here we are in 0.major.minor
09:39 VanessaE more or less
09:39 nrzkt and 13 is not minor on this release
09:39 VanessaE and treating minor as if it's patchlevel
09:39 nrzkt it's major for me
09:39 Calinou If your software is being used in production, it should probably already be 1.0.0. If you have a stable API on which users have come to depend, you should be 1.0.0. If you're worrying a lot about backwards compatibility, you should probably already be 1.0.0.
09:40 nrzkt and for using semver we need to have two branches, because we need to have minor modifications in one branch and patch to another and merge everything to minor
09:40 kilbith does we can afford frequent releases with minor patches ?
09:40 VanessaE I suggested started at 5.0.0 a while back because a lot of users are stupid and think 0.y.z = y.z.0
09:40 nrzkt no
09:40 VanessaE but others here prefer 1.0.0 instead
09:40 nrzkt yes
09:41 est31 ahhh this code si so ugly!!!!
09:41 nrzkt ?
09:41 est31 you know we have Player
09:41 est31 and we have RemotePlayer
09:41 est31 so where do you think do we store peer_id??
09:41 est31 in the remote player you guess
09:41 est31 but no we store it in player
09:41 nrzkt yes
09:42 est31 now, how do we set it=
09:42 est31 ?
09:42 est31 in the constructor?
09:42 nrzkt xD
09:42 est31 nooo that would be too simple
09:42 est31 no, we first pass the peer id to the playersao
09:42 est31 to its constructor to be precise
09:42 est31 then the playersao stores the peer id
09:43 est31 in its constructor
09:43 est31 and it also gets the player object in its constructor
09:43 est31 (i mean a pointer to it)
09:43 est31 so does it set the peer id of the player in its constructor, where it has both values??
09:43 est31 no
09:44 est31 it waits till the addedToEnvironment call
09:44 est31 out of which reason, i dont know
09:44 est31 so, when i now try to add a protocol version field to the player
09:44 est31 i either have to replicate this horrible structure
09:45 est31 or i have to write other horrible code
09:45 est31 which makes a lookup based on the peer id
09:45 est31 i hate this
09:46 jin_xi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70
09:48 nrzkt in fact est31 our session system is a little bit shit
09:48 nrzkt i will work on it when enet will be finished because i will need it
09:48 est31 about enet
09:49 est31 perhaps you should fix some regressions first
09:49 est31 VanessaE has a list of them
09:49 est31 flat player, and so on
09:49 nrzkt i don't know about flat player, i haven't seen this anywhere
09:49 est31 people are angra at you because of those regressions
09:50 nrzkt and i cannot reproduce it
09:50 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2524
09:50 nrzkt i don't say i haven't see the PR
09:51 nrzkt i say i haven't see it in action
09:51 rubenwardy I prefer 5.0.0
09:51 rubenwardy before we were 0.major.minor, now we would be major.minor.patch
09:51 est31 VanessaE, other regressions? this ghost entity thing is it one too?
09:51 rubenwardy anyway: how would you detect diversity for the serverlist?
09:51 VanessaE est31: yes, but that's not caused by any of nrz's code.
09:52 est31 how do you know
09:52 kilbith ghost entities are one the oldest bugs
09:52 est31 ah its no regression since 0.4.12 then
09:52 est31 ok
09:52 kilbith i always saw it (ie. since 0.4.6)
09:52 rubenwardy ~title https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/6d6882db0cbe1b5b24be
09:52 ShadowBot rubenwardy: Server list point checker
09:52 VanessaE because I'm pretty sure it was ShadowNinja's SAO rewrite that started the MAIN problem (the player-ref delete bug)
09:53 VanessaE some of the regressions (like flat player and 0,0,0) just become more visible because you're forced to sign on multiple times.
09:53 est31 our client is shit, our server is shit, what isn't shit.
09:54 nrzkt you forget your pseudo in the list xD
09:54 kilbith but it's free shit
09:54 est31 pseudo?
09:54 nrzkt nickname :p
09:54 VanessaE pseudo?
09:54 VanessaE pseudonym
09:55 est31 ive meant that seriously btw.
09:55 nrzkt i laugh :p
09:55 VanessaE I don't want to necessarily agree with it being "shit" given how capable it is, despite,
09:56 VanessaE but yeah there's a need for improvement in many places.
09:56 nrzkt it's not completely this, it's hard to maintain, that's different
09:56 nrzkt s/this/shit
09:56 est31 ok next idea
09:56 est31 we dont have the kick all method in the environment
09:56 est31 but iterate over the clients instead
09:56 est31 that should work
09:57 est31 andr
09:57 est31
09:57 est31 and require less overhead
09:57 nrzkt can you provide me a patch ?
09:57 nrzkt i keep the same usage as saveAllPlayers i nfact
09:58 VanessaE so long as new connections are no longer possible before the first client is kicked, I don't see a problem with that
10:05 kahrl merging #2921 now since it has 2 agreements, thanks for the tests est31 :)
10:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2921 -- Display an access denied message when client detects a server timeout by kahrl
10:15 est31 btw, why do we have peer ids?
10:16 est31 why not just use pointers?
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10:20 nrzkt you are right
10:20 nrzkt we should have a std::map<u64 peer_id, Player* player>
10:20 nrzkt but it's too late for this release to do this
10:21 nrzkt and we should have a SessionManager, not have this in server or Environment
10:21 VanessaE greetz, RBA
10:21 est31 whatever that makes dealing with it fun
10:21 est31 dealing with this is no fun
10:22 est31 also, i think more important than enet is that we can get multiple servers to cluster together
10:22 est31 then we can do enet
10:22 est31 perhaps both together
10:22 nrzkt cluster ?
10:22 VanessaE est31: oh G*D yes
10:22 nrzkt calm :p we are not at this point :p
10:23 VanessaE clustering ftw
10:23 nrzkt there is many things to do, clustering is useless if minetest design is fixed
10:23 est31 wtf
10:23 VanessaE est31: it's my understanding that Minecraft clients form nodes on some kind of rudimentary cluster also.
10:23 est31 do they
10:23 VanessaE we should look at doing the same if there's any hope of that
10:23 est31 didnt know that
10:23 est31 eiither way, clients must not be trusted
10:23 nrzkt +1
10:23 VanessaE well I can't confirm it of course, but that's what I've heard - supposedly it helps spread the load around
10:24 RealBadAngel hi all
10:24 est31 if, the server owner has to provide the cluster nodes
10:24 est31 call it multithreading, call it clustering, in my opinion clustering is better because it can run on different hosts
10:25 est31 multithreading can be done too, but not too intensely
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10:26 nrzkt don't be too ambitious
10:26 nrzkt there are others things to do before, don't add a new system with new problems atm clustering is complex
10:27 VanessaE nrzkt: I'm pretty sure that's for the future :P
10:27 nrzkt i hope
10:27 kilbith RealBadAngel: you have worked on the VBO patch ?
10:27 est31 no! lets push this in before 0.4.13!
10:27 est31 10 hour code marathon, now!
10:28 RealBadAngel kilbith, theyre waiting in line. atm im working on reenabling shaders for wielded and entities
10:28 kilbith ah ok
10:28 est31 also, who does the minimap fixes?
10:28 est31 me, hmmm, rba, nrz?
10:28 est31 sfan?
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10:28 RealBadAngel i will code a few things for minimap on  weekend
10:29 nrzkt not me, i'm not familiar with that code
10:29 nrzkt i'm mainly focussed on server design and net proto
10:29 RealBadAngel but "better algorithm for scanning" in the issues is quite a joke
10:29 VanessaE oh speaking of entities, I noticed an odd lighting glitch yesterday:  players are starting to ..blink?  that is, vacillate between two brightness steps, even if they're just standing still
10:29 VanessaE s/entities/objects/
10:30 kahrl RealBadAngel: btw, I made a small improvement to the wield extrusion code, https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2902#issuecomment-121843662
10:30 est31 wielded ones? or all items?
10:30 VanessaE not everyone does it, usually it's just one user who sits there shifting brightnesses
10:30 kilbith VanessaE: players are blinking when they lose health normally
10:30 kilbith it's intentional
10:30 VanessaE kilbith: no, I don't mean that
10:31 RealBadAngel kahrl, does it really fix fsaa issue?
10:31 VanessaE I mean an occasional small change in brightness, like some precision error happening somewhere.
10:31 kahrl it fixes the lines way above the wield hand
10:31 kahrl and similar lines for other extruded items
10:31 RealBadAngel kahrl, so i will merge that into my fixes, is that okay?
10:31 kahrl it doesn't fix the lines on the side
10:32 kahrl sure
10:32 RealBadAngel i should have shaders for wielded almos ready
10:33 RealBadAngel by today i mean
10:33 RealBadAngel it will be a separate shader
10:33 RealBadAngel theres no need in wielded shader to support parallax, waving etc
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10:35 VanessaE RealBadAngel: but bumpmap support in the wield would be nice
10:35 VanessaE at least so that it matches the world better
10:35 RealBadAngel yeah, bumpmapping will work without problems
10:37 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/lnYUz6-miqqc.png
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11:40 RealBadAngel i wonder what for we do use light source for wielded
11:41 RealBadAngel i works just faster to set the mesh color
11:41 VanessaE well
11:41 VanessaE I don't know WHY, but it reflecting the light in a given spot has one obscure use:
11:42 VanessaE to see if you're in an unloaded block up in the air
11:42 VanessaE (because the wield turns black then)
11:46 est31 ~ping
11:46 ShadowBot pong
11:46 est31 yey
11:46 est31 (Just testing timeouts)
11:46 RealBadAngel VanessaE, that could mean that lighting never works in fact
11:46 est31 so I am planning the following behaviour
11:46 RealBadAngel that can be achieved only by setting mesh color
11:47 est31 if the server shuts down, and reconnect == false
11:47 est31 the normal errormsg is shown
11:47 RealBadAngel im trying now to use that non-shaders wielded light source, but it simply doesnt work
11:47 est31 if the server shuts down, and reconnect == true, a dialog is shown, with the message, and "main menu", "exit game", and "reconnect"
11:48 est31 perhaps without "exit game"
11:48 VanessaE est31: I like that
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12:01 est31 lol like that "No future without mainmenu"
12:02 VanessaE hah
12:11 est31 wow, this is garbage code
12:19 kilbith hell, MT is really too RAM-greedy - never stops to increase when you fly over the map
12:19 kilbith in MC it's always stable and limited ~250-300 MB
12:21 est31 it is
12:21 kilbith returning to the menu does not clear out the RAM
12:21 est31 paramat said that sometimes it does, sometimes not
12:22 kilbith just flying, go ahead and keep en eye on your task manager
12:22 kilbith never stops to increase
12:22 kilbith as long you have some RAM free available
12:23 est31 all your ram are belong to us!
12:23 kilbith in MC i guess it have a managering from fee-ing the RAM dynamically
12:23 kilbith *free-ing
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12:25 est31 well RealBadAngel the gfx guy says that stuff is deleted, at shitdown
12:25 est31 yes, its shitdown, not shutdown
12:28 kilbith i laugh sometimes when i read that FOSS code is better
12:29 kilbith MT is quality-demo for the opposite
12:30 kilbith same goes for Oad vs Age of Empires
12:30 est31 there is very few foss software out there that has a gui and is better than the closed source alternative.
12:31 est31 because you cant easily build business models around foss software with a gui.
12:31 est31 it works for software without a gui, look at the server market
12:31 kilbith yeah
12:33 Calinou how 'bout Synergy (lol)
12:33 Calinou <kilbith> same goes for Oad vs Age of Empires
12:33 Calinou you saw original, non-decompiled Age of Empires source code?
12:33 Calinou most proprietary games are very monolithic in their design
12:34 kilbith no, i meant AoE III vs Oad
12:34 Calinou in contrast, 0 A.D. is much more modulra
12:34 kilbith 0 A.D. is very CPU/RAM inefficient
12:34 kilbith unlike AoE
12:34 Calinou there are exceptions, eg. Source engine
12:34 Calinou that's because it uses SpiderMonkey for JavaScript
12:34 nrzkt kilbith: as i see it's because every mapblock is load in RAM but never unload after a max view range
12:35 nrzkt est31: a menu at disconnect seems a good idea :)
12:35 kilbith modularity and freedom is good, but i prefer stability and efficience
12:35 kilbith that's a recurrent problem in FOSS games
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12:40 RealBadAngel well, i must admit that lightsource in wieldmanager is an ipressive idea
12:40 RealBadAngel to change level of the light ambient color is set
12:40 RealBadAngel rotfl
12:41 RealBadAngel so the lightsource is here for a reason unknown
12:43 RealBadAngel trashing that code, its useless and has as much common with proper lighting as cow trying to fly
12:43 nrzkt :p
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12:51 est31 nrzkt, in the meantime, do you want to review my chat pr?
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12:55 kilbith will it have a PR-merging session soon ? i see some fixes here and there
12:55 FR^2 joined #minetest-dev
12:55 kilbith especially TeTpaAka's ones
12:56 nrzkt est31: link, i will try to take time
12:57 est31 *nrzkt << #2885;
12:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2885 -- Utf8 based chat by est31
12:58 est31 the other option is that we don't change protocol, but then we have to provide utf-16 conversion utilities on linux.
12:59 nrzkt i like this option to remove wide and have conversion
12:59 nrzkt but don't protocol bump
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12:59 nrzkt as we said before protocol v25 is for this release
13:00 est31 chat is an important feature
13:00 est31 we said before that you dont have to additionally bump protocol when the feature isnt important, or not used often
13:01 est31 so for access denied strings that only happen when a server restarts ---> no big deal
13:02 est31 (old proto 25 clients would have an "unknown" reason for denial)
13:02 est31 thats acceptable
13:02 est31 but when chat isn't working, people will start to complain, and we should bump.
13:02 est31 there is already another feature we can put into protocol 26
13:03 RealBadAngel nrzkt, i also need protocol bump for my code
13:03 RealBadAngel code is sleeping waiting for it
13:03 est31 thats the one i spoke of :)
13:05 nrzkt okay for 26 then
13:05 nrzkt but at release 26 will be fixed
13:05 nrzkt RealBadAngel what do you need in protocol ?
13:06 est31 its all done
13:06 est31 he only needs the define
13:06 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/655fc6010ffd4be7de315be261df2a61d5d4538a​#diff-70868aa6d6b96c0c1623c761500d23c4L123
13:07 est31 the only thing needed is #define LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION 26
13:08 nrzkt oh i see
13:08 nrzkt okay for me too for this v26
13:08 est31 nrzkt, what do you mean with "at release 26 will be fixed"
13:08 nrzkt we couldn't modify the v26
13:08 est31 yes of course
13:09 RealBadAngel going, out bbl
13:09 RealBadAngel move that comma ;)
13:09 nrzkt the protocol version is not a problem, but is this a u8 or a u16 ? :p
13:09 est31 u16 i think
13:10 est31 yes u16
13:11 nrzkt good new
13:12 nrzkt whereas at this speed in 2 or 3 years we will reach max(u8) :p
13:12 est31 heh
13:12 est31 protocol bump every 2-3 months...
13:12 est31 i mean thats only statistics
13:13 est31 we dont hold back a pr "because we already had a bump this moth"
13:13 est31 month*
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13:14 nrzkt :)
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13:20 est31 nrzkt, what do you mean with "Can you add an extra empty line for reading ?"
13:21 nrzkt just add an empty line after the first if
13:21 est31 ok
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15:03 est31 ok, it works!
15:06 nrzkt what ?
15:09 est31 yea sorta
15:09 est31 will make pr, now coding the /shutdown command
15:10 est31 it will be /shutdown request_reconnect reason
15:10 nrzkt std::time is great
15:10 nrzkt good est31, you are crazy :p
15:10 est31 lol
15:10 nrzkt you have the reconnect process ready to review ?
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15:11 est31 no, i will have to polish a bit
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15:15 est31 hmmmm, do you know whether std::string(NULL) is safe? does it produce "", or do i have to check
15:15 hmmmm std::string(NULL) produces an exception
15:15 hmmmm try it out yourself
15:15 est31 ok will make a ternary
15:20 RealBadAngel hmmmm, i am fixing now wielded (and CAOs) shader
15:20 RealBadAngel it will be ready by today
15:20 hmmmm great
15:20 RealBadAngel but some decisions were made
15:21 RealBadAngel some1 made wielded (in hand) using lightsource
15:21 est31 hmmmm, what's better style .empty() or == ""
15:21 RealBadAngel but made it totally wrong.
15:21 hmmmm it really doesn't matter
15:21 RealBadAngel ive switched wield to use our lighting style back
15:22 RealBadAngel when we decide to switch to HW lighting system we will have to do it right way
15:22 RealBadAngel for all scene nodes
15:24 RealBadAngel atm wieldhand having lightsource is comparable to cow trying to fly
15:26 RealBadAngel setting light pos is ok (with lotsa facy cos and sin). then fact that lightsource has no light temperature set and using only diffuse color?
15:27 RealBadAngel slapstick comedy
15:31 RealBadAngel hmmmm, anyway, a screenie: https://imgrush.com/lnYUz6-miqqc.png
15:32 est31 looks n1ce
15:32 nrzkt hmm... normal maps are not very very stable in render i think
15:33 nrzkt RealBadAngel: pass on Apple Tree server and look at the textures :s
15:34 RealBadAngel nrzkt, screenie please
15:34 RealBadAngel i will tell you then what is the problem
15:35 RealBadAngel btw we shall make a thin red line with release
15:35 RealBadAngel and forbid olders to connect
15:36 est31 no
15:36 nrzkt https://lut.im/Rqr4J1Vs/5l7NjjMT & https://lut.im/C29MPb3D/3HiE4w8g
15:36 nrzkt simply move the camera change the render :s
15:36 est31 RealBadAngel, we should maintain compatibility based on what the users use
15:36 nrzkt and some textures which should be flat are.. not flat
15:37 est31 if less than 10% use something we still support, we can remove compat
15:37 RealBadAngel outaded client, case closed
15:37 RealBadAngel next please
15:37 nrzkt 5%
15:37 nrzkt 10% is huge
15:37 est31 ok with 5%
15:37 RealBadAngel display a link with source to get new client just
15:37 nrzkt i think we should remove minetest 0.2 compat layer
15:38 nrzkt xD
15:38 RealBadAngel backwards compability is causing more problems and bugs than anythin else
15:38 nrzkt i think in some parts it's a real problem
15:38 RealBadAngel got the client outaded? move kindly your ass and get one up to date
15:38 nrzkt didn't we have this thing implemented ?
15:38 est31 RealBadAngel, look at 2#508
15:38 nrzkt a message sent by servers
15:39 est31 err
15:39 est31 #2508
15:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2508 -- Pass version information to joinplayer callback by est31
15:39 RealBadAngel we could propably close at least 25-30% of the issues
15:39 est31 its even forbidden to check version to display a nice note
15:39 est31 even that is hated!
15:39 RealBadAngel we have to end that shit
15:40 nrzkt RealBadAngel: i agree, we have a rule 1 year without activity and after a question to sender
15:40 est31 and #1689
15:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1689 -- Add version API by ShadowNinja
15:40 RealBadAngel 1 yr?
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15:40 RealBadAngel are you a sleeping queen or what?
15:40 nrzkt if it was me it will be close after 1 month :p
15:41 RealBadAngel during one yr you can develop whole new game from scratch
15:41 nrzkt but i can't remember if it was 1 year or 3 month
15:41 RealBadAngel its IT
15:41 RealBadAngel now technology of producing hammers
15:41 RealBadAngel 1yr here is ages
15:41 nrzkt you are right, but if you look at my current enterprise methods... it's not agile (and i'm not a developper , i'm a UNIX systems production architect)
15:42 nrzkt everybody isn't agile but it's the best
15:42 nrzkt the problem with MT is distros like Debian which are old
15:42 nrzkt we should support squeeze and wheezy
15:42 RealBadAngel nrzkt, but im sick of resolving issues caused by outdated clients being able to connect
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15:42 nrzkt i agree with you
15:42 nrzkt trash older clients and next :p
15:43 est31 RealBadAngel, you are network maintainer lol?
15:43 RealBadAngel im forced to use technology that is 9 yrs old,  you know?
15:43 RealBadAngel im talkin OpenGL now
15:43 nrzkt RBA: did you look at my part on network it's a pain...
15:43 nrzkt we have retrocompat since the minetest birth xD
15:43 RealBadAngel 2.1 is almost 10 yrs old
15:43 nrzkt sfan5: did you have stats on protocol version ?
15:43 RealBadAngel and even a fridge can run it
15:43 nrzkt xDD
15:44 nrzkt i think we should drop protocol versions under 15
15:44 RealBadAngel is it our fuckin goal to get our project running on every kitchen machine or what?
15:44 est31 RealBadAngel, so whats so hard about having simple shaders?
15:44 RealBadAngel thats a workaround
15:44 est31 also nrzkt removing compat is always a hard job why do it?
15:44 RealBadAngel not a real solution
15:44 nrzkt RBA: it's not my goal, i agree with retrocompat, but i'm not for twenty years compat. 2 years is sufficient for me
15:45 est31 so your "solution" is to tell people to fuck off and use minecraft?
15:45 nrzkt est31: in protocol it's easy, we have protocol version tests everywhere :p
15:45 RealBadAngel my gf is playing online free game
15:45 RealBadAngel HayDay
15:45 RealBadAngel each time game is changing, user are asked to update their clients
15:45 RealBadAngel one can do? ofc he can
15:46 nrzkt the main problem RBA is our protocol is not ready for that...
15:46 RealBadAngel protocol is ready
15:46 nrzkt no
15:46 nrzkt we need to switch to enet before doing that
15:46 RealBadAngel just dont let olders to connect
15:46 est31 protocol is ready
15:46 nrzkt servers owners can do this
15:46 est31 its more a choice
15:46 RealBadAngel and trash all the backwards code
15:46 hmmmm if you want to trash minetest please do it in your own fork, please
15:46 RealBadAngel current one or nothing
15:47 RealBadAngel simple as that
15:47 est31 RealBadAngel, so convince some server owners to do it
15:47 est31 just ask them kindly whether they can do it
15:47 nrzkt or we can switch refuse backward clients to true by default ?
15:47 est31 we can talk again if you have convinced the top 10 from the list
15:47 hmmmm frankly the users' demands are more important than your own, RBA
15:47 RealBadAngel hmmmm, i dont want to trash anythin. i want it to be reliable
15:48 hmmmm sure
15:48 RealBadAngel this is not possible to get everything workin if youre workin on pieces out of sync
15:48 RealBadAngel client, engine, mods
15:49 RealBadAngel each one can have code out of its funny cache
15:49 nrzkt i need protocol version stats
15:49 Calinou <+nrzkt> we should support squeeze and wheezy
15:49 Calinou squeeze? no
15:49 Calinou wheezy? perhaps
15:49 RealBadAngel im tired of reports hey thats broken, horrible, slow etc
15:49 nrzkt squeeze is supported by Debian, yes i know it's old
15:49 Calinou in 2017 we'll add C++11 support
15:50 Calinou (that is, when Ubuntu 12.04 becomes EOL)
15:50 est31 no
15:50 est31 we already have c++11 support
15:50 hmmmm RealBadAngel, trashing compatibility isn't the solution
15:50 nrzkt we can run c++11
15:50 nrzkt but we don't use it
15:50 est31 also, we can already use c++11
15:50 RealBadAngel and hmmmm even you claimed to be working in IT business should know that
15:50 est31 with ifdefs
15:50 RealBadAngel especially you
15:50 est31 but we should not drop pre c++11
15:50 hmmmm RealBadAngel, it sounds to me like a horrible excuse for incompetence
15:51 RealBadAngel rly?
15:51 hmmmm how come *I* can make things stable and reverse compatible?
15:51 nrzkt hmmmm: do you agree < 2 years old versions of protocol support if the stats shows nobody is using it ?
15:51 RealBadAngel keep the client and server in sync
15:51 est31 reverse compatibility and stability are orthogonal imo
15:51 RealBadAngel you smart guy
15:51 hmmmm nrzkt, I guess that sounds reasonable
15:52 RealBadAngel otherwise youre just book learned techican not a real coder
15:52 hmmmm if you have a choice between keeping compatibility or not, though, the former should be preferred
15:52 nrzkt okay, then sfan5: if you have stats, i'm waiting you to do a PR to drop old protocol versions
15:52 nrzkt this will remove spaghettis :p
15:52 est31 nrzkt, why not do you a pr?
15:52 RealBadAngel learned only to watch the whitespaces and trying to find a use for templates
15:52 est31 you want it nrzkt
15:52 est31 also where are spaghettis
15:52 nrzkt because i need to have stats to do the cleanup and know what i should cleanup :)
15:53 hmmmm oh god
15:53 RealBadAngel somebody call for a delivery
15:53 hmmmm like I said
15:53 hmmmm if it presents an actual problem, then sure, remove it
15:53 hmmmm if you just decided you don't like old code, maybe that's not such a good idea
15:53 RealBadAngel hmmmm, most of us are self learned
15:53 hmmmm you shouldn't strive to break things for the purpose of breaking things
15:53 nrzkt est31: spaghettis for me are the horrible many conditions for protocol in some packets, if we could remove somes it could be better :)
15:53 RealBadAngel after many yrs of coding actual things
15:54 hmmmm RealBadAngel, then how come your code is so memory leaky
15:54 hmmmm with all that experience
15:54 hmmmm pfth
15:54 RealBadAngel i should pay more attention to that
15:54 hmmmm i think you should pay more attention to everything
15:54 RealBadAngel nobodys perfect
15:54 hmmmm shit commit in your own project, not minetest, okay?
15:55 hmmmm i get you want to develop new features fast but this isn't the appropriate venue
15:55 RealBadAngel im not doing them fast
15:55 RealBadAngel not since a long time
15:55 Calinou we're not at 1.0 yet, remember
15:55 RealBadAngel im always leaving prs for a long long time open
15:55 Calinou this means we can break compatibility and we have done so successfully in the past, many times
15:56 RealBadAngel even when i do have green light already
15:56 est31 Calinou, give an example pls
15:56 H-H-H is anyone actively working on the android side , i mean as aposed to just doing builds ?
15:56 Calinou est31, 0.3 -> 0.4_20111209 -> 0.4_20120320 -> 0.4
15:57 Calinou one added modding, one made modding use digging groups, one changed a lot of other things
15:57 Calinou (mod namespace, etc)
15:57 est31 sfan5, H-H-H has a sound problem with android, have you talked with each other yet?
15:57 est31 Calinou, did that break the network code?
15:57 nrzkt est31: he doesn't have problem with our daily build
15:58 nrzkt no because old protocol version only add features
15:58 Calinou est31, yes
15:58 Calinou 0.3 servers can't accept 0.4 clients, 0.4 clients can't connect to 0.3 servers
15:58 H-H-H if i build master for androd the sound us fubar
15:58 est31 Calinou, well, there was actually a reason behing
15:58 est31 behind*
15:58 nrzkt oh i should look at 0.3 PROTOCOL_VERSIOn to remove it :p
15:58 est31 and minetest was much smaller back then
15:58 H-H-H but if i build head of stable0.4 itss fine
15:58 H-H-H which is last android release
15:59 est31 H-H-H, can you perhaps make a git bisect?
15:59 nrzkt yes,  we have some master backports for android on it, especially from Zeno`
15:59 nrzkt and what about the daily build H-H-H ?
15:59 RealBadAngel hmmmm, with you i have this usual problem: "hey i think you should use here this and that." for example templates. after some time you admit yourself whenever you spot such place and think the same to yourself, it ends with trashing the idea
16:00 H-H-H nrzkt the daily build for android is built from stable-0.4
16:00 RealBadAngel but yet, fact that you commented my code (thrown some shit on it) stays
16:00 H-H-H its not built from master
16:00 RealBadAngel and you do that all the time
16:00 nrzkt oh ?
16:01 RealBadAngel if you were my manager i would propably kicked you in the ass
16:01 H-H-H est31 i need to do some reading on git bisect
16:01 * H-H-H has never used it
16:01 RealBadAngel and went lookin for another one
16:01 nrzkt you are right H-H-H
16:01 RealBadAngel but luckily its our hobby
16:01 est31 lol "i would propably kicked you in the ass"
16:02 H-H-H :)
16:03 H-H-H anyone know if sf is back up yet
16:03 * H-H-H is waiting to do a svn-git conversion for irrlicht
16:04 est31 H-H-H, it has nothing to do with irrlicht
16:04 H-H-H i know
16:04 est31 we always take latest irrlicht versino
16:04 est31 version*
16:04 est31 make a bisect on the minetest repo itself
16:04 H-H-H but i want to keep a copy of irrlicht on github so when sf goes down it dont matter
16:04 est31 H-H-H, https://github.com/zaki/irrlicht
16:04 H-H-H as a new android build allways d/l it from sf
16:05 est31 https://github.com/svn2github/irrlicht
16:05 est31 meh, you dont need to make new android builds every time
16:05 est31 completely
16:05 H-H-H i know i dont have to
16:06 RealBadAngel hmmmm, btw your code is not that leaky, perfect and all. and we still have floating invisible caves in the air. also to that flying circus lately joined dungeon team.
16:06 est31 yes its more proper your way, agreed
16:06 H-H-H thanks for those links will try them
16:06 RealBadAngel so indeed, youre not leaky. youre from the flying league :P
16:07 est31 that last argument by RealBadAngel is the first one i agree to in a long time
16:07 est31 (in this discussion)
16:08 nrzkt xD
16:10 TBC_x It looks like ~intlGUIEditBox never runs
16:10 est31 TBC_x, why that
16:10 TBC_x the Reference counter is always > 0
16:10 est31 we dont delete it?
16:10 est31 shame on us
16:10 est31 make a pr which deletes it
16:11 TBC_x can't find where it is
16:11 H-H-H thanks for your time guys :)
16:11 TBC_x I'm also tracking leaking MapBlockMesh
16:12 est31 oh yes that has to be fixed
16:12 TBC_x i wrapped it in c++11 pointers and it got worse :P
16:13 RealBadAngel TBC_x, whats leakin here?
16:14 TBC_x MapBlockMesh doesn't get deleted and hangs in memory, but I can't find where
16:15 RealBadAngel i can put in the code count of copies being active
16:15 RealBadAngel i made so to compare meshes and minimap mapblocks
16:15 RealBadAngel havent noticed a leak. but it was a simple comparision of number of loaded ones
16:16 TBC_x i don't care how many, I care where
16:17 TBC_x IMO it is because a container gets deleted without removing the elements
16:17 TBC_x properly
16:18 TBC_x maybe missing a virtual desctructor somewhere
16:19 TBC_x authentication seems to leak memory also
16:19 nrzkt TBC_x the only leak i see it that the player is not unloaded when leaving the player
16:20 nrzkt and not loaded at the next reconnection
16:20 nrzkt i don't think it's the better thing to do, unloading him and reloading is better
16:20 RealBadAngel so, how one can check exact memory usage?
16:20 TBC_x to be clear, I'm looking at client leaks atm
16:21 nrzkt okay TBC
16:21 RealBadAngel i can make a world with just one block that have content and then hunt it down
16:21 RealBadAngel but what should i use to check it
16:22 nrzkt sfan5: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/s​erverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt march stats , i need more detailed about outdated versions if you can , because we have 0.4.7 and older
16:23 TBC_x will be back in an hour or two
16:23 nrzkt i need to have all before 0.4.7 per version found
16:31 RealBadAngel hmmmm, anyway, i hope you dont mind we are fighting and arguing. im learning from others, from you too. Just dont be so strict and call some1's code a shit.
16:33 nrzkt someone know what is the minetest version on iOS ?
16:34 est31 we dont have ios version
16:34 est31 yes, we have mac version
16:34 est31 but no ios
16:34 nrzkt http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/s​erverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt
16:34 nrzkt read that
16:35 est31 its an unofficial fork
16:35 nrzkt oh...
16:35 est31 this is the general problem of minetest
16:35 nrzkt then we don't really care about it, he should updaate its app
16:35 est31 most people connect through official forks
16:36 est31 and we can't force the owners of those forks to update
16:36 nrzkt minetest on play store has 2686 current install and 26000 total installations
16:36 nrzkt no, but if they fork, it's their problem to permit players to play, not our
16:36 nrzkt it's not minetest, it's not us
16:38 nrzkt on android official: 97% users are android 4.0+
16:38 nrzkt 15% 5.0+
16:38 est31 I guess we are in the current situation because nobody cared about getting us more directly to our users
16:38 est31 this is where we are
16:39 nrzkt agree
16:39 nrzkt we miss some communication
16:39 nrzkt we need a community manager
16:39 nrzkt and cleanup this fucking code :p
16:39 est31 we should get a blog
16:39 est31 its read by press people
16:39 est31 press people make articles
16:39 est31 articles are read
16:39 nrzkt USA are our great users (743) followed by german (252) and France (213)
16:39 est31 really?
16:40 nrzkt it's the yesterday Google play store stats, yes :p
16:40 est31 perhaps we should translate the description to russian too
16:40 nrzkt the best connectivity: 4% are using Verizon Wireless
16:40 nrzkt in play store languages: russian < 1.5%
16:41 nrzkt UK 6.6% Brasil 5.4%
16:41 nrzkt oh sorry russia 4.1%
16:41 twoelk dont forget the emerging asian markets
16:42 est31 we should get to the chinese play store alternative
16:42 est31 they have alternatives for everything
16:42 nrzkt they are not in the top of google play store
16:43 nrzkt est31 you published on F-Droid, is there any stats ?
16:43 nrzkt Android upgrade for us is not a problem, 99.89% of our users are up to date
16:43 est31 nrzkt, no stats for f-droid
16:43 twoelk we should get to every store that offers unofficial versions and offer something better (hopefully we have something better)
16:44 est31 nrzkt, here it is #2922
16:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2922 -- Optional reconnect functionality by est31
16:44 est31 im gone
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16:50 RealBadAngel damn i seem to be only one polish, moreover responsible (or to blame just) whatever you can see on the screen ;)
16:54 twoelk polished screen ?
17:04 nrzkt bdb ++ all
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17:40 RealBadAngel ok, i do have shaders for wielded ready. i will make pr with it later today
17:40 RealBadAngel now i do need a nap
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18:07 est31 hmmmm, can you take a look at #2922
18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2922 -- Optional reconnect functionality by est31
18:07 est31 also everybody else who has time
18:08 est31 VanessaE, with the pr people can write mods that shut the server down with a custom message
18:08 est31 there are multiple ways to send a message to a mod
18:09 est31 e.g. you can make a named pipe
18:09 est31 like the mtsatellite mod did
18:09 est31 lets see what the modding community comes up with
18:10 est31 if the pr gets merged at all, seems nrz dislikes a non-functional detail of it
18:10 est31 but i wont merge it without it, sorry.
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18:35 paramat nore, i'll push game#576 (fix for stairs) and game#575 soon
18:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/576 -- Grant multiple tiles on stairs model by kilbith
18:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/575 -- Add items table for give_initial_stuff by Rui914
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18:45 TBC_x how do I link against custom built irrlicht?
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18:49 kilbith TBC_x: https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/blob/master/README.txt#L194
18:49 paramat kilbith yes i'm waiting for the 2nd +1
18:50 kilbith paramat: already have : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/565#issuecomment-122268509
18:51 rubenwardy paramat
18:52 rubenwardy don't merge game#575
18:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/575 -- Add items table for give_initial_stuff by Rui914
18:52 rubenwardy I'm about to submit an improvement
18:52 TBC_x thanks
18:53 paramat okay
18:57 paramat hm okay will push 577 too
19:02 rubenwardy game#579
19:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/579 -- Add items table for give_initial_stuff and Add an API for give_initial_stuff by rubenwardy
19:03 rubenwardy actually, it might be a good idea to get stuff from a setting
19:03 paramat ah nice an api
19:05 rubenwardy 1sec, I'm adding a setting
19:07 paramat perhaps we can do without a setting if we have an api?
19:07 rubenwardy should I submit this: https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/c811be03d917a6bfdef6
19:07 rubenwardy that way you can also do give_initial_stuff.stuff from a mod
19:09 paramat not sure, perhaps start a discussion in the thread for other's input
19:09 rubenwardy that doesn't actually work
19:09 TBC_x I would suggest to have on_account_creation or on_first_world_enter (if there is a plan for multiple worlds in the future) instead of that
19:10 rubenwardy minetest.register_on_new_player
19:11 rubenwardy updated to actually work: https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/c811be03d917a6bfdef6
19:11 rubenwardy missing :trim()
19:12 TBC_x don't mind me, I talk first, then read
19:19 rubenwardy game#579 done
19:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/579 -- Improve give_initial_stuff by rubenwardy
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19:49 paramat now pushing game 576 and game 577
19:57 paramat complete
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20:47 VanessaE another backtrace added to #2913
20:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2913 -- Unexplained, random crashes (segfaults, aborts, OOM)
20:57 RealBadAngel meanwhile im ready with wielded_shader, preparing pr now
21:00 RealBadAngel VanessaE, from the logs it looks like thats something related to latest est31 fixes to threas
21:00 RealBadAngel *threads
21:01 RealBadAngel but im not sure if he touched emerge threads, if not its hmmm's case
21:01 RealBadAngel __PRETTY_FUNCTION__ = "bool JSemaphore::Wait(unsigned int)"
21:05 VanessaE *shrug*
21:05 VanessaE I figure if I add enough backtraces, a pattern will emerge
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21:45 celeron55 VanessaE: try this: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/bdebug
21:46 TBC_x hi c55
21:47 celeron55 it's a weird thing that sometimes might make it easier to collect useful information about memory errors in live environments
21:48 RealBadAngel celeron55, does it slow down build? (like debug one does)
21:48 VanessaE celeron55: ok, added.
21:48 celeron55 RealBadAngel: it won't give you proper backtraces if you're not using a debug build
21:49 RealBadAngel i see
21:50 celeron55 it does two things: it wraps memory allocation in such a way that it is able to always clear out memory both when it is allocated and when it is deallocated (with different patterns), and it will catch segfaults and aborts on its own and print a compact backtrace without a debugger (which is configurable in main.cpp in this case)
21:51 celeron55 i mean, it's usually useless but in case of obscure stuff, it sometimes reveals things you wouldn't see otherwise
21:51 celeron55 and it only works on x86 and x86_64 linux
21:52 celeron55 also this is a cobbled together piece of code from another project so it's exactly that; don't push it upstream
21:53 celeron55 it even enables C++11 for the whole project because that's what it's coded in
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21:55 TBC_x the minimap code needs some tweaking
21:55 RealBadAngel celeron55, rebasing it when needed is a small price when you will nail some bug imho
21:55 RealBadAngel TBC_x, what you have in mind?
21:55 celeron55 VanessaE: you should probably add an abort() somewhere in the code to test how it behaves
21:56 RealBadAngel #2924, some testing welcom
21:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2924 -- Add wielded (and CAOs) shader by RealBadAngel
21:56 TBC_x it apparently generates minimap even for item meshes, or at least initializes memory for the minimap
21:56 TBC_x minimap data to be exact
21:56 RealBadAngel TBC_x, you mean when called to get 1x1x1 item mesh?
21:57 TBC_x I got leaks at MapBlockMesh::MapBlockMesh(MeshMakeData*, irr::core::vector3d<short>) (mapblock_mesh.cpp:1048)
21:57 TBC_x which is m_minimap_mapblock = new MinimapMapblock;
21:57 RealBadAngel TBC_x, hold on a second
21:57 TBC_x and destructor was not updated
21:58 RealBadAngel aw shit
21:58 RealBadAngel youre right
21:59 TBC_x wanna do the pr yourself?
21:59 RealBadAngel we all have forgot that mapblock_mesh is used to get inventory images
22:00 RealBadAngel TBC_x, have you wrote already a fix for that?
22:00 TBC_x not yet
22:00 TBC_x had destroyed the entire code to find that
22:00 TBC_x lol
22:00 VanessaE celeron55: er, FAIL
22:00 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-related/minetest_core$ minetest
22:00 VanessaE bdebug/cmem: Ran out of preinit memory pool
22:00 VanessaE Aborted (core dumped)
22:01 RealBadAngel TBC_x, gimme half an hour, i will fix it then
22:01 celeron55 8)
22:01 TBC_x because I misinterpreted valgrind logs :P
22:01 * kilbith implores the devs on his knees to fix that f-leak : https://lut.im/GJvAiBTc/zuDMcZA1
22:01 celeron55 you'll have to increase a... value
22:01 TBC_x could find it in minutes
22:02 celeron55 VanessaE: bdebug/linux/cmem.c:127
22:02 celeron55 VanessaE: make that value ten times larger or whatever
22:02 TBC_x I was wondering why even stack allocated MapBlockMesh was leaking memory
22:02 celeron55 don't ask what it does; it's a weird system
22:04 RealBadAngel TBC_x, there are two pieces responsible for that
22:04 RealBadAngel itemdef and wieldmesh
22:04 TBC_x yes
22:05 TBC_x I'd refactor that bit
22:05 TBC_x but I think this is not the way things are done here
22:06 RealBadAngel getting a single mesh for a node and using for it thingy that generates a mesh for whole mapblock is more than a hack
22:07 RealBadAngel i would rather code simpler routine to obtain the mesh
22:08 RealBadAngel anyway since im done with wielded shader, i can start coding that right now
22:08 RealBadAngel thanks for investigating and pointing out this issue
22:08 VanessaE celeron55: I'll pass.
22:10 RealBadAngel lol
22:10 RealBadAngel travis just failed, irrlicht pages are down
22:11 RealBadAngel sf looks to be down
22:13 TBC_x I'm not surprised
22:15 TBC_x and Why I am leaking now? :P
22:17 RealBadAngel well, im a bit stuck
22:17 RealBadAngel mapblock_mesh is a kinda swiss army knife
22:18 RealBadAngel thats not any good
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22:23 TBC_x well, better break it apart
22:24 TBC_x will be 'fun'
22:28 RealBadAngel TBC_x, i want to get rid of need to get inv images, so calls to mapblock_mesh will become obsolete
22:28 RealBadAngel but thats a song of a future
22:30 RealBadAngel meanwhile maybe just call to content_mapblock directly, without the need of mapblock mesh would do
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22:52 RealBadAngel kahrl, paramat, can you check wielded/CAOs pr?
22:52 RealBadAngel kahrl, your FSAA fix is in it
22:53 paramat sorry busy at the moment
23:04 TBC_x well... SINGLE leak fixed
23:07 RealBadAngel TBC_x, which one?
23:08 TBC_x missing delete for minimapblock
23:08 RealBadAngel where it was missing?
23:09 RealBadAngel btw, ive coded fix for wielded and itemdef case
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23:09 RealBadAngel about to test it
23:09 TBC_x http://sprunge.us/VjAS
23:10 RealBadAngel im afraid thats wrong
23:10 TBC_x hmm?
23:10 RealBadAngel you cant do that
23:10 RealBadAngel mesh can be deleted if its only air
23:11 RealBadAngel and its being deleted then
23:11 RealBadAngel but minimap mapblock have to stay here
23:11 RealBadAngel and thats not a leak
23:12 RealBadAngel otherwise you will get fucked up radar mode for example
23:13 RealBadAngel one and only case when you can delete minimap mapblock is the case when block gets unloaded
23:13 RealBadAngel or shutdown
23:13 TBC_x minimap mapblocks need refcounting then
23:14 TBC_x yeah, it segfaults, whoops
23:14 RealBadAngel lemme point you the code that takes care of it
23:15 RealBadAngel read client.cpp line 520 and on
23:15 TBC_x is it thread safe?
23:16 RealBadAngel deleting minimap_mapblock?
23:16 RealBadAngel no its not
23:16 TBC_x ok
23:16 RealBadAngel mapper can be running when you are deleting its data
23:17 RealBadAngel deletion is allowed only in minimap thread
23:17 RealBadAngel and on update
23:18 RealBadAngel basically you can easily check if theres a leak. number of loaded blocks have to be the same as minimap mapblocks count
23:19 RealBadAngel there can be a slight delay to get them even (its done in threads)
23:20 RealBadAngel but after triggering an update they should match
23:22 RealBadAngel btw, if you want to delete something you dont have to check if its not null
23:22 TBC_x was not sure on the behaviour
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23:23 RealBadAngel i was thinking the same, but somebody pointed that to me too :)
23:23 TBC_x so client.cpp:536 is useless then
23:24 RealBadAngel indeed
23:24 RealBadAngel also 538 should be not needed
23:24 RealBadAngel delete shall set it to NULL
23:25 TBC_x its minimap block needs to be deleted also, right?
23:26 RealBadAngel line 555?
23:27 RealBadAngel this should be the case of !block
23:27 RealBadAngel ie block is not here any longer
23:28 RealBadAngel and somebody messed it
23:29 TBC_x yeah, I don't think that is doing anything
23:29 RealBadAngel in this case mapper update should be also triggered
23:29 RealBadAngel with empty data
23:30 RealBadAngel mapper shall receive pos and empty data in order to remove stored block from cache
23:35 hmmmm [07:24 PM] <RealBadAngel> delete shall set it to NULL
23:35 hmmmm this is hilariously wrong
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23:41 RealBadAngel hmmmm, so what it does?
23:41 hmmmm why don't you try it before causing double free errors based on completely baseless assumptions
23:43 RealBadAngel i havent tried it yet even
23:43 RealBadAngel it was just a thought
23:44 hmmmm why don't you say "maybe delete sets it to NULL"
23:44 hmmmm no, instead you proudly assert that delete shall set it to null
23:44 hmmmm it's not even a question
23:44 hmmmm you're so cocksure
23:47 TBC_x delete r.mesh in else doesn't delete its minimap block
23:48 RealBadAngel hmmmm, calm down a bit :P
23:48 hmmmm that's because you have me afraid you're going to start adding in subtle, hidden bugs again
23:48 hmmmm jesus christ man
23:49 hmmmm remember the "if (g_settings->getBool("enable_thing")); {" you tried to slip in with something you wanted to make the default?
23:49 RealBadAngel youre starting to code that dont even exists yet :P
23:49 hmmmm that is sly, but thankfully i have good eyesight
23:50 RealBadAngel oh cmon, we are talking here, lookin what can be improved
23:50 TBC_x it looks like sound_enabled = false still initializes audio and stuff
23:51 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  also could you point me to where a block unload event adds a mesh update to the queue
23:56 RealBadAngel hmmmm, whoever added do_mapper_update broke it
23:56 hmmmm why's that, RealBadAngel?
23:57 RealBadAngel line 554 should be a reason to update too
23:57 hmmmm and it is
23:57 RealBadAngel no its not
23:57 hmmmm why not?
23:57 RealBadAngel wait
23:58 hmmmm nice try, but i'm not wrong.
23:58 TBC_x line 555 doesn't even make sense
23:58 RealBadAngel its not my original code, lemme rethink it
23:59 RealBadAngel i will put there debug code and will check it just to be sure
23:59 hmmmm why not just use some logic
23:59 hmmmm use your thinker

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