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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-13

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Time Nick Message
00:07 est31 RealBadAngel, what was your idea again to turn off shaders when compilation fails?
00:08 est31 can you make a pr with it
00:09 RealBadAngel ive coded that in fact
00:10 RealBadAngel an i do curse that code when im developing shaders
00:10 est31 ?
00:10 RealBadAngel before there was fail, edit and next try
00:11 RealBadAngel now i have to turn on shaders again ;)
00:11 RealBadAngel real pain in the ass
00:11 est31 we can make it only happen on release builds
00:12 RealBadAngel tommorow i will push fixes for non tileable textures
00:13 RealBadAngel then i will male a pr with shaders fallback, ok?
00:13 est31 ok if you fix what I've said in the github comments
00:13 est31 ok
00:13 RealBadAngel i ve coded by now vertical case
00:13 RealBadAngel need to take care of horizontal too
00:14 RealBadAngel not a problem tho, just swap the axes
00:15 RealBadAngel what was cut on y, shal be cut on x the very same way
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02:10 paramat hmmmm, #2905 seems ready to go
02:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2905 -- Mgv6/treegen: (Re)Add fallback nodes for compatibility with subgames by paramat
02:15 paramat now pushing game#558
02:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/558 -- Add new texture for default:leaves and style simple by RealBadAngel
02:19 paramat complete
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04:46 hmmmm paramat: looks really good
05:21 est31 is it possible that a shadow mapgen bug still exists?
05:21 hmmmm of course
05:21 est31 since VanessaE rebuilt her server with debug mode, I've got two shadow areas
05:22 est31 before none
05:22 VanessaE oh yeah I guess I should have mentioned that :)
05:22 hmmmm the shadow mapgen bug is not going away any time soon
05:22 hmmmm i know what needs to be done with it
05:22 VanessaE I built it in Debug mode and have it running through gdb, and set up so that when it exits, it'll throw a full backtrace into the debug.txt
05:23 hmmmm meh don't bother
05:23 VanessaE (mostly I just wanted to catch these random segfaults I get from time to time()
05:23 hmmmm i know the reason why it happens and i have a rough idea of what i would need to implement to fix it
05:23 VanessaE -(
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05:24 VanessaE and yeah, that old shadow bug exists.  not too big a deal, worldedit works fine to fix them.
05:29 hmmmm fixing the network and data serialization is much higher priority
05:29 hmmmm god this code should not be allowed to exist
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05:29 hmmmm who the fuck wrote this nonsense
05:29 VanessaE eh...well...
05:30 VanessaE I decline to say who most likely did, as it'll just start a shitstorm :P
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08:10 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/08663b05b60f4ef1e72c76cdf05fb0e2d6d65168
08:10 hmmmm night
08:10 * hmmmm &
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09:08 est31 hmmmm, looks good.
09:08 est31 except one if(
09:08 est31 ctrl + f for it :)
09:08 est31 and i cant push it because it bases on another commit
09:08 est31 nore, any judgement yet on my pr?
09:10 RealBadAngel hi est31
09:10 est31 hi
09:10 RealBadAngel im preparing now shaders pr
09:10 RealBadAngel will push that asap
09:11 RealBadAngel the one with grass solution i mean
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09:12 est31 rubenwardy, can you read through the doc changes in #2898
09:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2898 -- Add AreaStore data structure by est31
09:12 est31 checking for grammar errors
09:12 est31 and so on
09:12 rubenwardy sure
09:12 nore est31: areastore.cpp, L253: if accept_overlap is true, you don't need to check AST_CONTAINS_AREA
09:13 nore so you can use a ternary instead
09:14 est31 nore, yea
09:15 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2898/f​iles#diff-1305560bd8befb32862f0feeefabd02eR2602   If `accept_overlap` is true, areas are also returned which have nodes in common with `area`
09:16 rubenwardy so accept_overlap means that areas found don't have to be fully contained, but can extend over the boundaries of the queried area?
09:16 est31 yes
09:17 nore hm... is the commented code normal in the lua api files?
09:18 est31 yea
09:18 est31 dunno whether its ok
09:18 est31 serialisation should be added later
09:18 est31 i had no time to think about it
09:18 est31 libspatial has its own serialisation
09:18 nore hm...
09:18 est31 the one i coded was generalized
09:19 nore serialiazation should be the same regardless of the way data is stored I think
09:19 est31 libspatial has a bulk load mode
09:19 nore (so you can move a world to/from a server with/without libspatial)
09:19 est31 which speeds up loading by 10x or so
09:20 est31 but i think it can only be done if its serialisation is used
09:20 nore I agree it may slow loading
09:20 nore but creating a R*-tree is not that expensive
09:20 est31 agreed
09:20 nore and there will never be more than 10^6 areas in a tree
09:21 est31 also there is a problem in cpp because the size is written directly as size_t
09:21 est31 which is platform dependent
09:21 nore yeah, so a serialiazation format should be decided
09:21 rubenwardy maybe: If `accept_overlap` is false, areas will only be returned if they are fully contained by 'area'.
09:22 rubenwardy but I guess that loses detail
09:22 nore I think it wouldn't be too difficult, given what we already have
09:22 rubenwardy apart from that, it's all good
09:23 est31 nore: https://github.com/libspatialindex/libspatialind​ex/blob/master/include/spatialindex/RTree.h#L88
09:23 est31 those are the three methods
09:23 est31 I'm using the first
09:23 est31 line 79
09:23 est31 also the problem is how to implement forEach
09:23 est31 for libspatial
09:24 est31 perhaps pass an area with HUGE_NUM or how its called
09:24 est31 then make a forEachVisitor
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09:56 RealBadAngel est31, updated, waitin just for travis
09:58 RealBadAngel for the very first time i am removing 2 files from the project :)
10:16 Amaz RealBadAngel, for some reason, with #2897 everything goes red (the normal shaders not working thingy), but before, I've always been able to use shaders without a problem...
10:16 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2897 -- Fix relief mapping issues by RealBadAngel
10:30 Amaz I'm not sure if it would help, but this is the error it gives: http://pastie.org/10289619
10:33 rubenwardy Amaz, what is your opengl version?
10:33 VanessaE OpenGL version "old as shit"
10:33 VanessaE :)
10:34 Amaz 3.0
10:34 VanessaE that's old.
10:34 rubenwardy How would I update OpenGL?
10:34 Amaz ^
10:34 VanessaE however if that's all you got, then the shader code needs patched.
10:34 rubenwardy xubuntu
10:38 Krock <VanessaE>that's old.
10:38 Krock heh
10:38 Krock I can just laught about this with my 2.1.x version here
10:39 VanessaE heh
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11:03 VanessaE RealBadAngel: some players are reporting a "double images" effect on my server now. Probably from parallax maps that don't work for them.  On my screen, they work fine but some of them seem...blurry
11:03 VanessaE (I just git pull'ed from minetest_game before the restart)
11:03 VanessaE specifically, ores
11:04 VanessaE and I note that there only seem to be a small number of such images.  default grass lacks for example
11:04 VanessaE I guess you meant to use these with the "generate normalmaps" feature
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11:09 Amaz I just switched to a propitiatory Ndivia driver, which gave me opengl 3.3, which works :) Sorry to cause more trouble!
11:09 VanessaE actually it matters
11:10 VanessaE because you described a regression
11:10 Amaz Ah, okay :) Glad I could be a help in that case!
11:14 VanessaE RealBadAngel: turning on "bumpmapping" is what's leading to that "blurry" effect, for me.
11:15 VanessaE I am not yet using the "fix relief mapping issues" patch, btw.
11:21 VanessaE anyways, more later.  for now, off to bed.
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13:05 RealBadAngel texture2Lod was the problem
13:05 RealBadAngel i will change it back to regular sampler
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13:29 RealBadAngel Amaz, here?
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13:36 Amaz RealBadAngel, yep
13:36 RealBadAngel Amaz, could you switch drivers back and check the pr again?
13:37 Amaz Okay
13:41 Amaz I need to restart to change graphics driver, right?
13:43 * Amaz goes ahead and restarts. brb
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13:48 Amaz Great, that works brilliantly RealBadAngel!
13:48 RealBadAngel thx
13:49 Amaz np
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15:04 rubenwardy I'd like help with this: #2908
15:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2908 -- Add map limiting (WIP) by rubenwardy
15:05 rubenwardy When I set the map_generation_limit to 80, the map goes from 30,30 to 45,45 roughly
15:05 rubenwardy paramat, hmmmm :P
15:06 nore rubenwardy: the map is generated in 80x80x80 chunks
15:06 rubenwardy yeah
15:06 nore so setting it to 80 will only create the chunks that fit inside
15:06 rubenwardy I'll measure again
15:07 rubenwardy Goes from (-32,-32) to (47,47) - 32+47 = 80
15:07 rubenwardy so that does make sence
15:07 rubenwardy * 32+47 = 79
15:08 rubenwardy So it's 80x80x80, but also offsetted
15:08 nore yes, it is always offset like that
15:09 crazyR could someone point me in the direction for where the list formspec is parsed in minetest core. ive been searching for a while. not had much look. to many references to the word formspec and list lol
15:10 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L300
15:11 rubenwardy or https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L777
15:11 rubenwardy depending on what you mean
15:14 crazyR im trying to find where the event data gets prepared when a list formspec is parsed. i may have over thought it a little thought. as maybe its actually in the "on_player_receive_fields"  section
15:14 rubenwardy Updated #2908
15:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2908 -- Add map limiting by rubenwardy
15:34 RealBadAngel nore, it was you that coded camera offset?
15:35 nore yes
15:35 RealBadAngel is there any chance to achieve the same effect without the offset?
15:36 RealBadAngel offset thingy is blocking (making it slower in any case) the VBO code
15:36 nore hm... I'm not sure there is a way
15:37 nore except forcing irrlicht to have more precision
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15:37 RealBadAngel you know where it should be applied?
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15:40 nore I'm not sure it is even possible :/
15:41 RealBadAngel either the camera offset, or need to resend the meshes to HW buffers on its change
15:42 RealBadAngel if we didnt have the offset VBO could be way more efficient
15:42 nore yeah, you could try without offset at first :)
15:43 jin_xi well, its wrong selection box without, anything else?
15:43 jin_xi i only did quick look
15:43 nore jin_xi: without offset, you get visual problems at large coordinates
15:43 nore flickering nodes, etc
15:44 RealBadAngel worse
15:44 RealBadAngel if we do ignore offset all world meshes are fucked up
15:44 nore what do you mean?
15:45 RealBadAngel if you go more than 200 in each direction, meshes are displaced
15:45 nore that's because offset is not completely disabled
15:45 jin_xi yes, thats the camera offset step, i set it to 1000000000000 or so to try without
15:45 nore ^ that should work better
15:45 nore don't set it too high though, it shouldn't be too large
15:45 RealBadAngel problem is that offset modifies vertices coords
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15:46 nore I guess 15000 is safe for testing
15:46 RealBadAngel if those are changed, mesh have to be re-sent to the buffers
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15:47 RealBadAngel and thats slow, if you move just by one node further and have to wait for all the meshes to be resent
15:47 jin_xi so many weird offset and BS factors to mt
15:47 RealBadAngel btw, proller started to remove BS thing
15:48 jin_xi try helicopter mod, due to limitations of attachement system and coding around those its not save to travel across camera offset steps with it
15:48 nore RBA: offset is not changed enough
15:48 RealBadAngel if this was meant only to make the coords different as c55 said, proller is right
15:48 nore you need to travel 200 nodes to get it changed
15:48 RealBadAngel 201 and 199 border i meant
15:49 nore yes, if you go at 200, then offset is set at 200
15:49 RealBadAngel here you will meet the switch in offset value
15:49 nore and then, you need to either go to 0 or 400 so it gets changed again
15:49 RealBadAngel but imagine just walkin at the border line
15:49 RealBadAngel resending triggered all the time, an overkill
15:50 nore no, if you walk past the border line, the borders get changed
15:50 nore and you need to walk 200 nodes again to cross a border
15:50 RealBadAngel ah i see
15:50 RealBadAngel so its a bit better
15:51 RealBadAngel nore, what do you think about that BS case?
15:51 paramat we need to remember how far out the problems start, i'll dig up the commit
15:51 RealBadAngel we are doing *10 , /10 all the time just for sake coords not to be mistaken
15:52 nore well, I don't know what it is for :)
15:52 RealBadAngel i asked c55 bout that already
15:52 RealBadAngel he said its just for this purpose
15:53 paramat offset every 200 is not needed, perhaps a few thousand is good
15:53 RealBadAngel i wonder how much time we spent on doing those conversions...
15:53 nore paramat: I started noticing problems even with ~1000 y coordinate...
15:53 jin_xi should have been 1 not 10 from the start, but it has leaked into many other places and calculations so its not easy to change
15:53 RealBadAngel paramat, nore, where the problem with the camera starts to happen?
15:54 RealBadAngel 30k?
15:54 nore RBA: IIRC, there are problem near 500 - 1000 that are already noticeable
15:54 jin_xi 1k nodes and visual glitches due to precision sounds fishy
15:54 RealBadAngel i noticed that only with selection lines
15:55 RealBadAngel if they were not so thin that would be propably not noticeable
15:56 RealBadAngel btw. i just spent a few hours lookin for a bug that didnt exists
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15:56 RealBadAngel im talkin bout my last pr
15:57 RealBadAngel i just forgot to include networkprotocol.h with raised protocol number
15:57 RealBadAngel so all my code was inactive lmao
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16:01 RealBadAngel paramat, i will clean the pr again and push it, will need then changes to mt game
16:01 RealBadAngel all the dirt+something node defs will have to be changed
16:02 RealBadAngel i will change the ones that come in minimal game
16:02 RealBadAngel http://pastie.org/10290216
16:08 RealBadAngel paramat, also i have figured out how to tint the grass
16:08 RealBadAngel interested?
16:09 paramat nope hehe
16:11 RealBadAngel why not?
16:11 RealBadAngel we could have grass tinted depending on biome
16:11 paramat tinting is never as good as individual textures, changing the colour usually also needs careful tuning of saturation, brightness, contrast too
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16:11 RealBadAngel have you saw tone maps used in mc for that feature?
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16:11 paramat also only a very few biomes would use it, currently 2
16:12 RealBadAngel i dont think so
16:12 paramat yes i've seen the MC version, don't like it
16:12 RealBadAngel make it depending on humidity or temperature
16:12 RealBadAngel more wet env you get more juicy green
16:12 RealBadAngel hotter it gets, more brown
16:13 RealBadAngel and imho transitions could be nicer thx to it
16:14 RealBadAngel not to mention grass being single nodedef
16:14 paramat cool idea but i don't like smooth variation, hmmmmm may be more interested for v8 and his new biome system
16:17 RealBadAngel also i cannot wait till we have swamps in :)
16:17 paramat perhaps then the camera offset could be around 512?
16:17 paramat yeah all rainforest will dip into water to create swamps
16:18 RealBadAngel paramat, i want the need of resending be as rare as possible
16:18 RealBadAngel so greater the number the better
16:19 RealBadAngel i just dont know what kind of glitches were there apart from selection box lines
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16:20 RealBadAngel so if it was happening at 30k, half the value just
16:20 paramat i remember problems at only 10000, if nore says 500-1000 then we should trust that
16:21 nore (well, when I wrote that code, I used the smallest value for which I didn't notice problems)
16:22 nore but anyway: you can write the code, and then we can test how expensive a resending is
16:22 RealBadAngel code for that is trivial
16:22 nore and change offset step accordingly
16:22 RealBadAngel and you can just feel the border
16:23 RealBadAngel fps drop is noticeable
16:23 nore how much time does it cost? 50ms? 100?
16:23 RealBadAngel basically VBO code doubles the fps
16:24 RealBadAngel when you are at the border fps drops for a while to level as it could be without vbo
16:24 nore except when crossing a border?
16:24 nore ah, so it is no real problem :)
16:24 RealBadAngel its especially noticeable when moving fast
16:24 nore hm...
16:25 RealBadAngel you have a feeling that you have crashed on an ivisible barrier
16:25 Miner_59 Hi, I'm here to ask about my pull request made 8 days ago which I think fixes jumping on bouncy blocks. Link: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2886
16:25 nore well, you could maybe try to raise offset step to 500 or so
16:25 nore but I wouldn't raise it more if I were you
16:25 paramat yeah 500 is good
16:25 RealBadAngel nore, we can get the correct value with some testing
16:26 Calinou Miner_59, it breaks jumping on all bouncy nodes, even if disable_jump is not 1
16:26 nore also: I would advise to make it a number close to a power of 2, but below
16:26 Miner_59 ??? but why, I tested over a week and it clearly works always for me
16:26 nore (not too close, though)
16:28 paramat so 500 is better than 512?
16:28 nore yes, 500 would be a good choice I think
16:29 Miner_59 Calinou, do you have time to test? I have a server for with jumping mod running on ip 80.128.163.64 Port 30.000
16:29 Calinou ok, cloning and compiling your fork
16:29 nore but there would need to be some tests
16:29 Miner_59 ok cool thanks
16:29 paramat okay
16:30 RealBadAngel if choosing between 500 and 512 i would rather pick the second
16:30 Miner_59 if it is too much work you can connect with unmodified client too and watch me jumping
16:30 RealBadAngel pot numbers are always better in this job ;)
16:30 nore no, too close can have problems (the glitch would be easier to trigger I think)
16:31 paramat ah
16:31 nore (because you could place a node past 512 without going there yourself)
16:31 paramat of course because it's precision error
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16:32 RealBadAngel what is creative range for placement?
16:32 nore something like 10?
16:32 Calinou 10
16:32 RealBadAngel what about technic laser?
16:32 RealBadAngel lets make it like 512 - 64
16:32 RealBadAngel just to be sure
16:32 nore (the problem will be there anyway)
16:33 nore (because you can place the node, go back to 0, 0, 0, restart the game and go where the node is)
16:33 nore it's just that it would be a bit less easy to see
16:34 nore and all that because of irrlicht :/
16:35 RealBadAngel nore, mc is not using irr and had same problem ;)
16:35 nore yes, but they can decide to use better precision, we can't :|
16:36 RealBadAngel can irrlicht be forced to use more precise format?
16:36 nore idk
16:37 RealBadAngel we shall investigate it then
16:37 RealBadAngel we are not the only voxel game made on top of irr
16:38 RealBadAngel propably others encountered it too
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16:45 Calinou hmmmm, RealBadAngel, paramat, Miner_59 actually fixed bouncing,
16:45 Calinou his patch is probably ready to merge now
16:45 Calinou jumping on trampolines works as expected
16:45 paramat cool
16:45 RealBadAngel so lets merge it
16:46 RealBadAngel this is bouncing around for too long already ;)
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16:56 Miner_59 Ok thanks again for testing with me Calinou.
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17:10 hmmmm Calinou, you keep saying that but I simply do not see how it's fixed
17:11 hmmmm disabling jumping on a node is not the same as fixing it
17:11 Calinou hmmmm, OKAY
17:11 Calinou connect on Miner_59's server
17:11 Calinou with his client
17:12 Calinou and see how it works.
17:12 Calinou it works perfect
17:12 Calinou you seem to have misunderstood what I said
17:12 hmmmm alright will look
17:12 Miner_59 hi, hmmmm it doesn't disable jumping
17:13 Miner_59 ok, join my server ip 80.128.163.64 Port 30.000
17:17 Miner_59 why removing the code which I did should disable jumping? This was just additional to the normal jumping and it gave the player way too much speed
17:21 hmmmm erm
17:21 hmmmm Assertion failed: (mediaReceived()), function afterContentReceived, file /usr/home/ryan/minetest/src/client.cpp, line 1719.
17:21 hmmmm well this can't be good
17:22 Miner_59 what does this mean?
17:22 hmmmm i think i might be having trouble connecting to your server
17:23 rubenwardy C1ffisme really annoys me :(
17:23 hmmmm trying again
17:23 Miner_59 a player with empty name tried to connect from 130.0.11.193
17:23 hmmmm that's not me, my ip is in the 72 range
17:24 Miner_59 and this:19:21:17: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Couldn't connect to server) (response code 0)
17:24 Miner_59 then can you try with jeija's version of jumping mod, the original one?
17:25 hmmmm nevermind fixing bugs, let's add some new features!
17:25 hmmmm Miner_59, I haven't given up yet
17:25 hmmmm it's still on the Media... part
17:26 Miner_59 oh, I just restarted server now
17:27 Miner_59 here, mod to test with:https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-jumping
17:30 hmmmm eh
17:30 hmmmm too late i got on the server
17:30 hmmmm alrighty where am I going to now?
17:33 hmmmm did you take the server down again?
17:33 Miner_59 it crashed
17:33 Miner_59 sorry
17:34 Miner_59 19:33:20: ACTION[ServerThread]: Server: A mismatched client tried to connect from 72.79.173.196
17:34 Miner_59 19:33:20: ERROR[ServerThread]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: basic_string::_S_construct null not valid
17:34 Miner_59 up again
17:34 hmmmm shoot
17:35 hmmmm somebody somewhere tried to make a std::string with NULL it seems
17:36 hmmmm did it happen again??
17:36 Miner_59 yes
17:37 Miner_59 I get it sometimes, but I havent latest minetest version
17:37 hmmmm i don't recall anything like that getting fixed since 0.4.12
17:39 hmmmm did you get a backtrace after that unhandled exception by any chance?
17:40 Miner_59 no, but I will try to get one maybe
17:40 hmmmm thank you
17:40 Miner_59 can it be because of modifications I did in mapgen source code?
17:40 hmmmm no
17:42 hmmmm i'm going to guess the error exists somewhere within the lua api
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17:45 Miner_59 I'm not sure if it is real not caused by modifications because why then nobody reported it already. I got it first I think a month ago
18:07 Calinou paramat, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/565#issuecomment-120997369
18:07 Calinou please drop the "Mesh ALL the things!" fad
18:07 Calinou mushrooms look better as plantlike than they would with a mesh
18:07 hmmmm drink all the booze! hack all the things!
18:08 hmmmm zero through three, we're in every single ring!
18:09 Miner_59 hmmmm: success I have reproduced the crash with server thread attached in gdb
18:09 hmmmm great
18:09 hmmmm let's see the `bt full`
18:10 Miner_59 ok
18:12 Miner_59 I think i need another thread but here is bt: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11873585/
18:13 hmmmm huh
18:13 Miner_59 Here, threads and bt full: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11873625/
18:13 hmmmm i don't see any crash
18:14 hmmmm it looks like you just pressed ctrl+C
18:14 Miner_59 oh can be, but after error server doesn't respond anymore
18:14 hmmmm oh so it still *lives*?
18:14 Miner_59 yes
18:14 hmmmm but it doesn't respond??
18:15 Miner_59 can you help me what i need to do?
18:15 hmmmm there are like 3 problems here all at the same time
18:15 Miner_59 hmm ok
18:15 hmmmm 1). the exception handling is messed up
18:15 hmmmm 2). there's a std::string(NULL) problem
18:15 hmmmm 3). there's a version mismatch when there shouldn't be any to begin with
18:16 hmmmm but let's ignore all that and work on new features!!! yay!!
18:18 hmmmm wait, is that minetest server you're using compiled as debug or release?
18:19 Miner_59 oh, i think as release
18:19 hmmmm yeah hrmm, i dunno, it could be some strange interaction between gdb and whatnot
18:20 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
18:20 Miner_59 hmm ok
18:20 hmmmm can you restart the server with gdb already attached?
18:20 Miner_59 yeah I had to press Ctrl+C because i cant type anything in gdb
18:21 hmmmm you should be able to catch the assert(0)
18:21 Miner_59 how can I restart it? I think it doesnt respond
18:25 hmmmm try ctrl+D?
18:25 hmmmm if that doesn't work, switch over to a different console and kill -9 `pgrep gdb`
18:27 paramat joined #minetest-dev
18:33 Miner_59 i think i need to attach another thread
18:34 hmmmm if you start it with gdb you won't need to attach anything
18:34 Miner_59 ah ok i will try
18:40 paramat now pushing #2905
18:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2905 -- Mgv6/treegen: (Re)Add fallback nodes for compatibility with subgames by paramat
18:40 RealBadAngel im about to push #2897 and close issue 2815
18:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2897 -- Fix relief mapping issues by RealBadAngel
18:40 hmmmm why not wait for your build to finish?
18:41 RealBadAngel i am waiting
18:41 RealBadAngel anyway, building here ended a few minutes ago
18:41 hmmmm RealBadAngel, are you aware that the code style is to not have any spaces after the function name, right?
18:41 hmmmm it's supposed to be like
18:41 hmmmm void getTextureFlags()
18:42 RealBadAngel are you aware that its not c++? (jokin, will change that)
18:43 paramat RBA im about to push, is this okay?
18:44 RealBadAngel im not touchin the same files, its ok
18:44 paramat okay thanks
18:45 paramat complete
18:47 hmmmm RealBadAngel: out of all that code, is this line     +return intensity(texture2D(baseTexture, clamp(uv, 0.0, 0.999)).rgb);    the one that actually fixes the texture problem?
18:48 RealBadAngel are you jokin?
18:48 hmmmm if that line wasn't there, the texture would wrap around
18:48 RealBadAngel you think ive changed the protocol version because i used clamp somwhere?
18:48 paramat hmmmmm next i will reverse what i did to minimal game, a while back i added some nodes to solve the 'areas of ignore in snow biomes' problem
18:49 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  who did you get approval from with that PR?
18:49 RealBadAngel read the pr
18:50 hmmmm nerzhul +1ed it?
18:50 hmmmm :|
18:50 paramat lol
18:50 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2897/​files#diff-82a77dc39dc952bc7ea07b74b73fc2a5R114
18:50 hmmmm he's practically a yes man at this point
18:50 RealBadAngel this is the core change
18:50 hmmmm don't make me crank the requirement up to 3 approvals
18:50 hmmmm nerzhul +1s everything on the github PR tracker
18:50 RealBadAngel but to get this working i had to get those bools
18:51 RealBadAngel and also i wont be doing anti repetitive tricks inside shaders, forget it
18:52 RealBadAngel code is too sensitive for that
18:52 RealBadAngel you may require that in core, but stop demanding that in shaders please
18:52 hmmmm you just make it into a function
18:52 RealBadAngel no i wont
18:52 hmmmm repetitive code is not just ugly
18:52 hmmmm it's CONFUSING
18:52 RealBadAngel it have to be fast not nice
18:53 RealBadAngel hands off please ;)
18:53 hmmmm other people work on this you realize
18:53 hmmmm right now it just so happens that you're the one modifying the shaders the most
18:53 hmmmm you keep doing this with your code in the core too
18:53 hmmmm it's copy pasted from somewhere else, and it usually has a copy/paste error or two in it
18:53 hmmmm not only that
18:54 RealBadAngel thats copy pasted?
18:54 hmmmm but at some later point in time, you modify one variant of the code ever so slightly but not the other one
18:54 RealBadAngel wtf are you talking about?
18:54 RealBadAngel youre claimin thats not my code?
18:54 hmmmm no...
18:55 hmmmm that is your code, but you copied one instance and pasted it into another portion of the code
18:55 crecca joined #minetest-dev
18:55 hmmmm sorry, I can't get behind that argument that this is somehow safer and somehow better
18:55 hmmmm when code is sloppy, there are usually bugs
18:56 hmmmm if it smells like shit, there's probably shit somewhere nearby
18:56 RealBadAngel you dont even understand the code yet have to comment it
18:56 RealBadAngel your question bout clamp showed that
18:56 hmmmm I'm still reading the code
18:58 RealBadAngel ok
18:58 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest-dev
18:58 RealBadAngel waitin for the comments then
19:05 hmmmm just to make sure i understand this
19:05 hmmmm ds is the distance between the eyes
19:05 hmmmm uv is the left eye, and uv2 is the right eye
19:05 hmmmm ?
19:05 RealBadAngel no
19:06 RealBadAngel ds is displacement, based on eye ray
19:06 hmmmm isn't there supposed to be two eye rays in parallax occlusion
19:06 RealBadAngel uv are texture coords, modified by the displacement
19:07 RealBadAngel uv2 is the modified one, by displacement. if texture is seamless it will become current texture uv
19:07 RealBadAngel when texture is not seamless, we have to check the border cases
19:08 RealBadAngel http://www.cescg.org/CESCG-2006/pa​pers/TUBudapest-Premecz-Matyas.pdf
19:08 RealBadAngel please do read some theory on the effects used
19:10 RealBadAngel both displacement methods we are using are described here
19:13 hmmmm and the displacement is the distance between each intersection probe
19:14 RealBadAngel displacement depends on heightmap
19:14 hmmmm you said ds == displacement
19:14 RealBadAngel when you march a ray, and meet point that should be higher
19:14 hmmmm ds is the step each probe takes to find an intersection
19:15 RealBadAngel then difference beetween an original point and found one will be ds
19:15 Miner_59 Ok, I'm back. Here's a backtrace of all threads of minetest after it displays mismatched client error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11873884/
19:15 hmmmm so i don't quite understand this part
19:15 RealBadAngel displacement is not constant
19:15 hmmmm you have uv -= ds
19:16 RealBadAngel yes
19:16 hmmmm but then you modify uv to be += dist * ds
19:16 RealBadAngel ive modified original method a lot
19:16 hmmmm so doesn't that make all the displacements minus 1?
19:16 hmmmm shouldn't it be (dist + 1) * ds?
19:16 RealBadAngel i do shift texture by maximum possible ds value, thats an offset
19:17 RealBadAngel kinda like i was using inverted heightmaps
19:17 RealBadAngel then add found actual displacement value
19:17 hmmmm Miner_59:  interesting.. the serverthread is not there at all
19:17 hmmmm it keeps dying without breaking into the debugger it seems
19:18 hmmmm this should not happen
19:18 RealBadAngel substracting max value helps to accomodate texture shifts
19:18 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
19:18 RealBadAngel because it mainly depends on view angle
19:19 MinetestForFun_ joined #minetest-dev
19:20 hmmmm hmm
19:20 RealBadAngel i suggest you to see grass texture before and after
19:20 hmmmm i think i understand what your code does well enough, but what does that have to do with leaving part of it repetitive
19:21 RealBadAngel it may look nearly the same but its not the same
19:21 RealBadAngel vertical changes y values, horizontal x
19:21 RealBadAngel the second section is dynamically compiled
19:22 hmmmm I am looking at it and I legtiimately can't see a difference
19:22 hmmmm actually nevermind there is one difference
19:22 hmmmm you compare to 2.0 instead of 1.999 in the second version
19:22 hmmmm i don't think this is intentional though..
19:23 RealBadAngel it is
19:23 hmmmm why
19:23 RealBadAngel values are chosen after heavy tests
19:24 Miner_59 hmmm I think it happens only when the client which tries to connect is build with a rather recent (1-2 month??) minetest version. I can't reproduce it myself when connecting with clients with older minetest version
19:24 RealBadAngel autogen maps are totally different
19:24 hmmmm did you really test the difference between " >= 2.0" and " > 1.999"?
19:24 RealBadAngel ofc, its visible
19:24 hmmmm if the difference is less than 0.0001 then it shouldn't make any logical difference at all
19:25 RealBadAngel not when it comes to normal maps
19:25 hmmmm well, then, don't you think you should add a comment about that?
19:25 hmmmm that seems like a very important detail
19:25 RealBadAngel its black magic anyway
19:25 hmmmm it's not black magic
19:25 hmmmm code is not black magic
19:25 RealBadAngel ofc it is
19:25 hmmmm it needs to be understandable
19:26 RealBadAngel displacement mapping doesnt have such code
19:26 RealBadAngel what we are doing here is a workaround for non existant bug
19:26 hmmmm i don't get it
19:27 RealBadAngel the method assumes that texture has to be seamless
19:27 RealBadAngel got it now?
19:27 hmmmm you're refusing to write a comment about this very minute difference of less than 0.0001 because "it's black magic anyway" and it "solves a non-existent bug"?
19:27 RealBadAngel im not refusing
19:27 hmmmm well
19:27 hmmmm i can't speak for you but
19:27 RealBadAngel im just saying that theres no theory for it, no equations
19:27 hmmmm i want everybody to understand how the shader works
19:28 RealBadAngel values were chosen for textures to look right
19:28 hmmmm this is the reason why I don't just rubber stamp your commit
19:28 hmmmm i am reading about parallax occlusion and actually trying to understand why you coded what you coded
19:29 RealBadAngel i will try make the story short
19:30 RealBadAngel main thing about parallax is that whats gone on one edge appears on the opposite one
19:30 RealBadAngel so displaced texture is continuos
19:30 RealBadAngel in case of grass it caused dirt to be visible on top
19:31 RealBadAngel i just had to stop it while having displacement working
19:32 paramat PR to make minimal minimal again #2909
19:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2909 -- Minimal: Remove recently added unnecessary nodes by paramat
19:35 RealBadAngel hmmmm, have you tried grass before and after?
19:35 hmmmm no
19:36 RealBadAngel how the fuck you want to understand the gfx code without seeing what it does? lol
19:36 RealBadAngel i should hand you my asm demos code and wish you good luck reading ;)
19:37 hmmmm this is why people inveted comments
19:37 RealBadAngel propably with unrolled loops i could hear you cryin even here in poland ;)
19:43 hmmmm okay there's a problem here
19:44 hmmmm I don't know how this happened but the protocol version is not the same as the contentfeatures serialization version
19:44 hmmmm take a look at ContentFeatures::deSerialize()
19:44 hmmmm you get the version from the first byte of a serialized ContentFeatures
19:45 hmmmm I am sort of upset
19:46 hmmmm this isn't your own problem, but the whole concept behind having different serialization versions is all screwed up
19:46 hmmmm really wish we could nuke it and start over again
19:48 hmmmm alright, I finished commenting
19:50 RealBadAngel with dropping the texture i lost it
19:50 RealBadAngel textures are deleted on shutdown, cant do that runtime
19:51 hmmmm okay, that's good to know
19:51 RealBadAngel i could delete them, but i do need them
19:52 RealBadAngel about asserting image creation
19:52 RealBadAngel are you sure that i should check if there were 4 bytes aviable for its creation?
19:52 hmmmm if it's a function from some third party library, you cannot speculate on whether or not it will always succeed
19:53 hmmmm this is how you write robust code
19:53 hmmmm minetest needs more robust code
19:53 RealBadAngel i can add that but i will have to stop the engine then
19:53 RealBadAngel code cannot work without that texture
19:54 hmmmm I dunno if you realized it or not, but lately there's been a lot of buggy behavior caused by fragile code because people don't check all the error cases or some other equally simple thing
19:54 RealBadAngel i see
19:54 RealBadAngel will add check for it
19:54 hmmmm it needs to be absolutely rock solid, not something that'll shatter in a million pieces if I look at it the wrong way
19:54 hmmmm save that for your personal projects maybe
19:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: did you see the comments I made earlier?  about the "double image" effect, and the "blurriness" ?
19:55 RealBadAngel i saw, but i dont get it :)
19:55 RealBadAngel can you explain?
19:56 RealBadAngel whats the "double image" effect?
19:56 VanessaE http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-13#i_4320666
19:56 VanessaE better yet, moment
19:56 RealBadAngel a screnshot maybe?
19:57 RealBadAngel parallax not workin. on which node? whats doubled there?
19:57 VanessaE this is what the guy sees, with just parallax enabled:  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1836​44134/O_o/screenshot_20150713_124748.png
19:57 VanessaE and if he turns on bumpmappint too:  https://dl.dropboxuserconten​t.com/u/183644134/O_o/1.png
19:58 RealBadAngel he has modified client propably
19:58 VanessaE I advised him to just turn those features off for now.  he wasn't reporting a problem before because default textures didn't have included normalmaps in the past.
19:58 RealBadAngel i can see fsaa applied there
19:58 RealBadAngel do you see the hand?
19:58 VanessaE that's not fsaa.
19:58 VanessaE that's some wield mesh glitch
19:59 RealBadAngel caused by fsaa
19:59 VanessaE nope, pretty sure it isn't.  others have had the same problem
19:59 RealBadAngel we havent changed lately anything related to wieldmesh
19:59 VanessaE it's something related to kahrl's wield mesh rework ages ago
20:00 VanessaE so that's an olllllld glitch
20:00 RealBadAngel yet the node textures and the wield mesh seems to be affected the very same way
20:00 VanessaE it's not related at all to the current discussion
20:00 RealBadAngel lemme turn the fsaa on
20:01 VanessaE the guy who reported the issue is on another network now, trying to get him to come here
20:02 hmmmm RealBadAngel, can you explain to me how insertSourceImage and getTexture works?
20:02 hmmmm :)
20:03 RealBadAngel its not my code
20:03 RealBadAngel it just works ;)
20:03 hmmmm you're using something you don't understand?
20:04 hmmmm okay, I have not written much client-side graphics code at all so I could be totally missing something here
20:04 RealBadAngel i know what it does, how it is doing such primitive is not my concern
20:05 hmmmm insertSourceImage, from what it seems, inserts an *image* into the texture source cache
20:05 RealBadAngel thats not possible to understand everything in such big project
20:05 hmmmm so let's just follow this logic for a while
20:05 hmmmm the flags image is created
20:05 hmmmm some pixels get set
20:06 hmmmm you insert this IImage into the source cache
20:06 RealBadAngel yes
20:06 hmmmm then you use this image as the source for a new ITexture
20:06 hmmmm this ITexture is never added into the texture cache
20:06 hmmmm is it?
20:07 hmmmm I am asking you
20:07 RealBadAngel driver handles the textures for me
20:08 RealBadAngel why should i dig the irrlicht engine when im using a simple texture?
20:09 hmmmm because I want to make sure there's no memory leak here
20:09 RealBadAngel texture cache is flushed on shutdown
20:09 hmmmm shutdown of what
20:09 RealBadAngel image used is in cache (original dropped)
20:09 RealBadAngel the engine
20:10 hmmmm the point is
20:10 hmmmm can the TextureSource be destroyed and recreated hundreds of times without recreating the same textures
20:12 RealBadAngel is the TextureSource code point of my PR or what?
20:12 RealBadAngel im just using it
20:12 hmmmm and you might be possibly using it incorrectly
20:12 hmmmm if you use it incorrectly, that makes a memory leak
20:13 RealBadAngel 12 bytes....
20:13 hmmmm i don't give a shit how many bytes
20:13 hmmmm this must be done CORRECTLY
20:13 hmmmm otherwise your code is shit
20:13 hmmmm i am not going to allow memory leaking code to get into the engine
20:13 RealBadAngel show me the proof its shit
20:13 RealBadAngel or something is incorrect here
20:14 hmmmm that's why i'm asking you to go over this with me so that I understand why this code is solid
20:14 RealBadAngel otherewise it looks like youre just WANT to find problems here
20:14 hmmmm look
20:14 hmmmm irrlicht might delete the textures on shutdown
20:14 hmmmm but that's not the point
20:14 hmmmm any program with memory leaks will free the memory on shutdown
20:15 hmmmm if you're making such an assertion that you don't need to worry about allocated memory, you need to understand
20:15 RealBadAngel so where is the leak in your opinion?
20:15 hmmmm - the lifetime of TextureSource
20:15 hmmmm - the ramnifications of irrlicht reference counting
20:15 hmmmm - whether or not your texture or image is being tracked
20:15 hmmmm I am not saying there is a leak
20:16 hmmmm I'm saying the code looks suspicious
20:16 hmmmm and what's even more suspicious is that you don't want to help me understand why it's correct
20:16 hmmmm you want me to gloss over it instead and just give you a rubber stamp
20:16 RealBadAngel check its destructor
20:16 RealBadAngel driver->removeTexture(iter->texture)
20:16 RealBadAngel flushed?
20:16 RealBadAngel end of story
20:17 hmmmm and where is that texture coming from?
20:17 hmmmm you never added it to the texture cache
20:17 RealBadAngel // Insert an image into the cache without touching the filesystem.
20:17 RealBadAngel // Shall be called from the main thread.
20:17 RealBadAngel void insertSourceImage(const std::string &name, video::IImage *img);
20:18 hmmmm an image is not the same as a texture
20:18 hmmmm look at what insertSourceImage does
20:18 UjE joined #minetest-dev
20:19 RealBadAngel it inserts image to cache
20:19 hmmmm which cache
20:19 RealBadAngel get texture grabs the image from cache and return the pointer
20:19 hmmmm does it really
20:21 RealBadAngel i dont care how it does it, waiting for santa's visit with box full of pointers or whatever, but my code gets the stored pointer to the image
20:21 RealBadAngel i havent wrote that code
20:22 RealBadAngel theres no point for me to read whole engine code, be it our own, or irrlicht when using primitives
20:23 hmmmm but you have to understand how to properly use those interfaces
20:23 hmmmm if you don't use it properly, there could be memory leaks or other assorted bugs
20:23 hmmmm you make them, the rest of us fix them
20:25 RealBadAngel who else the fuck you are asking to read and understand the whole engine?
20:27 RealBadAngel also comments like "wtf is this string" "i could wrote that line in different manner" are just plain  stupid
20:27 RealBadAngel since some time youre just jumping on my code
20:28 RealBadAngel also modyfing it without knowledge what it does
20:29 UjE joined #minetest-dev
20:30 UjE .
20:30 RealBadAngel if youre so smart, please write your own code
20:30 hmmmm RealBadAngel, code has to at least look nice too
20:30 hmmmm but seriously
20:30 hmmmm wtf IS the point of strue and sfalse?
20:31 VanessaE ah there he is
20:31 hmmmm I am not asking you to change it necessarily, I'm just asking why did you decide that you needed to do that
20:31 UjE here
20:31 RealBadAngel i just defined a string that im using in many places
20:31 VanessaE RealBadAngel: UjE is the guy with the double-image problem
20:31 selat joined #minetest-dev
20:31 RealBadAngel what else could it be?
20:31 RealBadAngel hi UjE
20:31 UjE hi
20:31 UjE im UjEdwin in the forum
20:31 RealBadAngel UjE, can you pastebin your config in the first place?
20:32 hmmmm you can also do the same with "1" and "0"
20:32 hmmmm have you ever heard of string pooling?
20:32 UjE after load a world or into the server?
20:32 RealBadAngel your game config
20:32 UjE k
20:32 hmmmm in any case, RealBadAngel, the point I wanted to make is that if you had read the code you'd notice that you create twice as many images
20:33 hmmmm one that does get tracked by TextureSource and one that does not
20:33 hmmmm twice as many textures, I mean
20:33 UjE server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 1500
20:33 UjE server_name =Floating Forest O_o
20:33 UjE server_description = Temporary Tiny Server
20:33 UjE motd = hi, say:  help  to teleport to spawn.
20:33 UjE disable_fire = true
20:33 UjE enable_damage = true
20:33 UjE enable_tnt = false
20:33 UjE default_privs =
20:33 UjE --interact, shout, home, protect
20:33 UjE viewing_range_nodes_min = 0
20:33 UjE viewing_range_nodes_max = 80
20:33 RealBadAngel oops ;)
20:33 UjE server_dedicated = false
20:33 UjE remote_port = 30001
20:33 UjE port = 30000
20:33 UjE rc.server = 2.68.32.20
20:33 UjE irc.channel = 3231
20:33 UjE irc.nick = O_o Ser
20:33 UjE irc.password = un1cyc132
20:33 UjE irc.sasl.pass = un1cyc132
20:33 UjE max_users = 8
20:33 UjE static_spawnpoint = -138, 12, 224
20:33 RealBadAngel pastebin.com or pastie.org for example ;)
20:33 UjE disallow_empty_password = false
20:33 UjE creative_mode = false
20:33 UjE enable_pvp = true
20:33 UjE server_address =
20:33 UjE server_announce = true
20:33 UjE ahux1_descends = false
20:34 hmmmm UjE, you sure that was a smart idea to reveal your password to the entire world?
20:34 UjE serverlist_url = servers.minetest.net
20:34 UjE creative_mode = false
20:34 UjE enable_shaders = true
20:34 UjE maintab_LAST = settings
20:34 UjE menu_last_game = minetest
20:34 UjE mg_name = singlenode
20:34 UjE name = O_o
20:34 UjE noclip = true
20:34 UjE doubletap_jump = false
20:34 UjE mainmenu_last_selected_world = 2
20:34 UjE selected_world_path = C:\Users\Edwin\Desktop\minetest\bin\..\worlds\FP
20:34 UjE public_serverlist = false
20:34 UjE sound_volume = 1
20:34 UjE fast_move = true
20:34 UjE fixed_map_seed =
20:34 UjE free_move = false
20:34 UjE enable_rollback_recording = false
20:34 UjE areas.self_protection_max_areas = 3
20:34 UjE areas.self_protection_max_size = 32,32,32
20:34 UjE areas.self_protection_privilege = protect
20:34 hmmmm gahh..
20:34 UjE areas.self_protection = true
20:34 UjE address = breballlove.no-ip.org
20:34 UjE keymap_backward = KEY_KEY_S
20:34 UjE keymap_chat = KEY_KEY_T
20:34 UjE keymap_cmd = /
20:34 UjE keymap_console = KEY_F10
20:34 UjE keymap_drop = KEY_KEY_G
20:34 UjE keymap_fastmove = KEY_KEY_F
20:35 UjE keymap_forward = KEY_KEY_W
20:35 UjE keymap_freemove = KEY_KEY_Q
20:35 UjE keymap_inventory = KEY_KEY_E
20:35 VanessaE EEK!
20:35 UjE keymap_jump = KEY_SPACE
20:35 UjE keymap_left = KEY_KEY_A
20:35 UjE keymap_noclip = KEY_KEY_C
20:35 UjE keymap_print_debug_stacks = KEY_KEY_P
20:35 UjE keymap_rangeselect = KEY_KEY_R
20:35 RealBadAngel omfg :)
20:35 UjE keymap_right = KEY_KEY_D
20:35 UjE keymap_sneak = KEY_LSHIFT
20:35 UjE keymap_special1 = KEY_LCONTROL
20:35 UjE wieldview_update_time = 2
20:35 hmmmm usually we'd kick people who do this
20:35 UjE aux1_descends = false
20:35 UjE wieldview_node_tiles = false
20:35 UjE gui_scaling = 1.00
20:35 UjE client_unload_unused_data_timeout = 600
20:35 UjE world_config_selected_mod = 17
20:35 UjE world_config_hide_gamemods = true
20:35 hmmmm i'm sure it'll end soon though... hopefully
20:35 UjE world_config_hide_modpackcontents = true
20:35 UjE unlimited_player_transfer_distance = true
20:35 UjE cinematic = false
20:35 UjE enable_clouds = true
20:35 UjE anisotropic_filter = false
20:35 UjE bilinear_filter = false
20:35 UjE connected_glass = true
20:35 UjE enable_node_highlighting = true
20:35 UjE generate_normalmaps = false
20:35 VanessaE G*d damn, UjE...
20:35 UjE mip_map = false
20:36 UjE video_driver = opengl
20:36 UjE enable_bumpmapping = true
20:36 UjE enable_parallax_occlusion = true
20:36 UjE trilinear_filter = false
20:36 UjE ill use dropbox
20:36 UjE ?
20:36 UjE how?
20:36 UjE https://dl.dropboxusercontent.co​m/u/183644134/O_o/minetest.conf
20:36 UjE ohh, that was not that pass
20:36 UjE its  dont using that pass somewhere
20:36 VanessaE UjE: you pasted the entire file right into the channel
20:36 UjE i did not really understand how that worked, so i just made one
20:36 VanessaE RealBadAngel: well that confirms that he's not using fsaa.
20:37 VanessaE UjE: it's okay.  next time just do the dropbox thing instead :)
20:37 UjE kk
20:38 RealBadAngel wieldview_node_tiles, whats that?
20:40 RealBadAngel we dont have such setting
20:41 UjE i have no ide
20:41 VanessaE that's probably for the 3d armor modpack
20:41 RealBadAngel can you zip whole game folder? with mods and everythin?
20:41 UjE cash too?
20:42 UjE its about 170mb
20:42 RealBadAngel without cache
20:42 UjE k
20:43 RealBadAngel VanessaE, what was about blurry?
20:43 VanessaE RealBadAngel: moment.  I'll make a screenshot.
20:45 UjE the upload will take a while
20:45 UjE 40mg
20:45 UjE mb
20:46 VanessaE RealBadAngel: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-07-13_16-45-54.png
20:46 VanessaE I distinctly remember normalmaps looking a LOT sharper than this.
20:46 RealBadAngel yes
20:46 UjE the sand stonebrick looks really weird too
20:47 RealBadAngel autogen cannot make softer normalmaps
20:47 UjE https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1836​44134/O_o/screenshot_20150713_133746.png
20:47 RealBadAngel i just made them softer
20:47 VanessaE RealBadAngel: then the "soft" normalmaps you provided for minetest_game have got to be redone.  they look absolutely horrible.
20:47 RealBadAngel horrible?
20:47 VanessaE I'm serious, it feels like the camera is...out of focus
20:48 RealBadAngel when theyre softer?
20:48 RealBadAngel folks were voting bout them
20:48 VanessaE this is a 16px texture you're making them for.  they have to be sharp to match it
20:48 RealBadAngel there were no single voice again the style i was makin them
20:49 RealBadAngel *against
20:49 VanessaE I don't think anyone had time to comment on them
20:49 VanessaE I never even saw that discussion
20:49 RealBadAngel on the other hand, when i made them sharp, folks didnt liked them
20:49 VanessaE wat
20:49 VanessaE they were perfect
20:49 RealBadAngel hey, there were no maps before :P
20:49 VanessaE if you use soft normalmaps with a hard 16ps texture they look horrible
20:50 VanessaE 16px*
20:50 RealBadAngel for the very first time we have some
20:50 RealBadAngel what are you comparing then?
20:50 UjE Done: https://dl.dropboxuserconten​t.com/u/183644134/O_o/MT.zip
20:50 RealBadAngel UjE, thx, downloading it
20:51 VanessaE RealBadAngel: I'm comparing your hand-made normals to the "sharp" effect you get with the auto-generator.  The sharpness MUST match that or it looks awful.
20:51 UjE its win8.1 64
20:52 RealBadAngel VanessaE, we can open a thread on it again
20:52 RealBadAngel so folks can decide
20:52 VanessaE what's to decide?  it looks horrible
20:52 RealBadAngel because its soft?
20:53 * cheapie agrees that it looks horrible
20:53 cheapie MT is supposed to be blocky. These aren't.
20:53 VanessaE RealBadAngel: it's not "soft", it's out of focus.
20:53 VanessaE like you applied a blur filter or something
20:53 RealBadAngel damn it. when there was a pr with everybody liked them :P
20:54 RealBadAngel now you say "its horrible"
20:54 RealBadAngel you have saw the screenshots before, didnt you?
20:54 VanessaE hell, look at your iron normal and compare it to say, the diamond one
20:54 VanessaE https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mine​test/minetest_game/166b1c623add33a0ad4​ba469da30035df5293bca/mods/default/tex​tures/default_mineral_iron_normal.png
20:54 RealBadAngel so?
20:54 VanessaE https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minet​est/minetest_game/166b1c623add33a0ad4ba​469da30035df5293bca/mods/default/textur​es/default_mineral_diamond_normal.png
20:54 cheapie The stone, especially, looks like somebody made the map in MS Paint.
20:55 VanessaE you can see the difference in sharpness between these two alone
20:56 RealBadAngel i made a diamond a bit sharper just
20:56 VanessaE and then compare it to the normal for stone:
20:56 VanessaE https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minet​est_game/166b1c623add33a0ad4ba469da30035df5293bc​a/mods/default/textures/default_stone_normal.png
20:56 crecca oh god, now I'm affraid to look at minetest code knowing RealBadAngel opinions :)
20:56 VanessaE it looks like you actually baked the lighting into the texture here
20:56 RealBadAngel for them not to be lookin exactly the same
20:57 RealBadAngel ok, i will make sharper ones and will upload them to review
20:57 VanessaE I'm sorry RBA but if I had the authority, I'd have blocked your PR here :(
20:57 RealBadAngel but honestly, there was PR with lotsa screenshots hanging there
20:57 cheapie RealBadAngel: OK. I'm looking forward to testing that.
20:57 RealBadAngel why didnt you said anything before?
20:57 RealBadAngel both of you :P
20:57 VanessaE RealBadAngel: because you weren't showing stone.
20:58 VanessaE you were focusing on grass and stuff
20:58 VanessaE at least in the screenshots I DID see.
20:59 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/559
20:59 RealBadAngel "Looks good, although the brick could be a bit more smooth IMO"
20:59 VanessaE these need to be remade to be at least as sharp as what the auto-gen-normals code would have produced given the same amount of info about the image
20:59 RealBadAngel folks even asked to make some more smooth :)
20:59 VanessaE I think by "smooth" he meant the surface of the brick faces.
20:59 VanessaE not the edges
21:00 VanessaE i.e. less displacement among neighboring pixels
21:00 RealBadAngel https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/2177790​/8579768/c9150a68-25b6-11e5-8f75-7cd85cc81bdf.png
21:00 RealBadAngel anyway, can we see stone here?
21:00 cheapie The mese looks horrible in that picture...
21:00 VanessaE yeah, that's the same effect I get.  the stone is terrible.
21:00 VanessaE the mese is okay-ish
21:00 RealBadAngel rotfl
21:01 VanessaE but that sand.  G*D no.
21:01 RealBadAngel mese ok, mese bad, decide you two ;)
21:02 VanessaE I said "okay-ish" :)
21:02 RealBadAngel sand came out to be as you see after several different versions
21:02 cheapie Well, I'm still of the opinion that mese should be a yellow block with "ME SE" hastily scribbled on it...
21:03 RealBadAngel what the mese block has in common with mineral mese texture?
21:03 VanessaE cheapie: well there IS still a mese block and it does generate underground, it just doesn't look hastily drawn anymore; pictured here is mese crystals
21:03 cheapie VanessaE: I know... I've been grumbling about the whole mese crystal thing more or less ever since it got put in.
21:04 RealBadAngel and Vanessa, autogen produces such sharp images because i couldnt apply there blur
21:04 RealBadAngel i made such code but it was damn to slow
21:04 VanessaE RealBadAngel: and thank G*d it can't!
21:04 VanessaE in any case, RealBadAngel you have GOT to revert this commit.
21:04 cheapie RealBadAngel: The sharp images look nice. That's the whole point of this discussion.
21:04 VanessaE "Sharp is safe, dull is dangerous.:
21:04 RealBadAngel what about folks that think softer are nice?
21:05 VanessaE let them make their own normalmaps.
21:05 VanessaE it takes all of 1 minute to apply a guassian filter over an image.
21:05 VanessaE but you can't UN blur the image if it's already done that.
21:05 VanessaE that way*
21:05 RealBadAngel theyre not made with simple gausian filter
21:05 VanessaE you get my point
21:05 sofar bit of a personal opinion, but I like how the sand looks :^(
21:05 VanessaE don't split hairs
21:06 RealBadAngel that is what autogen is doing
21:06 VanessaE well it looks like you did varying amounts of Gaussian blur over an otherwise sharp image
21:06 UjE i like that sand too
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21:07 VanessaE but my point is you can blur the texture if it's too sharp, but you can't UN-blur a fuzzy one to any reasonably good result.
21:07 VanessaE so err on the side of caution and supply sharp textures.
21:13 RealBadAngel UjE, do you have a link for the build youre using?
21:13 UjE this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/​download/0.4.12/minetest-0.4.12-win64-msvc.zip
21:13 RealBadAngel ah i see
21:14 UjE i using win0.1 64
21:14 UjE win8.1
21:14 RealBadAngel for the heightmaps and relief mapping you should use more up to date client
21:14 RealBadAngel youre build is too old
21:14 UjE i have no ide
21:15 RealBadAngel lemme find another build for you
21:15 UjE i looking for new buildes next to everyday, but no newer realesed
21:15 UjE NO, im dump
21:15 UjE here is it
21:15 UjE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&amp​;t=6745&amp;sid=218dc6eb53e1537791d982de4926ac36
21:16 UjE i using dev version
21:16 UjE i for got that
21:17 RealBadAngel i can see your version of shaders
21:17 RealBadAngel theyre totally outdated
21:17 UjE Latest dev build, 0.4.12 version with leveldb support, commit f16ebbfecf, from 26.05.2015.
21:17 RealBadAngel you dont have minimap even
21:17 hmmmm hey when are you going to finish minimap btw
21:18 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/8a85e5e58decf77df27d114574026ff8032b8a45
21:18 RealBadAngel you need a build that with this commit at least
21:18 RealBadAngel hmmmm, whats there to finish?
21:19 RealBadAngel you mean api for it?
21:19 hmmmm no
21:19 UjE should u not make a mpa for a full texture, not only parts?
21:19 hmmmm there's a github issue full of things todo for the minimap
21:19 RealBadAngel UjE, point is that your build doesnt have new relief mapping code
21:20 UjE ohh
21:20 VanessaE RealBadAngel: meanwhile, please revert your normalmaps commit until you can make up better images
21:21 UjE yeah its from 26.05.2015
21:21 RealBadAngel hmmmm,  A better scanning strategy would be more performant. Do you have any better idea? i dont have
21:21 UjE make full pics instand of parts
21:21 RealBadAngel Surface scanning should be done in the minimap thread, not the mesh update thread - completely false
21:21 hmmmm then explain why, in the issue
21:21 RealBadAngel Only the left shift key can be used to change the - whats wrong with left shift?
21:22 UjE i made many nurmal maps for mod to UT3, taht they using nurmalmaps for everything
21:22 RealBadAngel There is an older bug in minetest @VanessaE calls main mesh thread lag, which greatly affects the responsiveness of the minimap. Perhaps it should be fixed. - not belonging here
21:22 VanessaE UjE: that doesn't matter, the maps can combine just fine.  it's the fact that the individual maps are fuzzy is what's so ugly.
21:22 RealBadAngel The buffers have constant size - thats only reasonable
21:22 UjE k
21:23 hmmmm so basically you're saying that you're not going to finish what you started
21:23 hmmmm this is the RealBadAngel way
21:23 hmmmm add a feature
21:23 RealBadAngel i just said im not agreeing with all
21:23 hmmmm make sure it's full of edge-case bugs, overly verbose code, memory leaks, etc.
21:23 hmmmm never finish it
21:24 hmmmm leave that part for other people to worry about
21:24 hmmmm let's just worry about new features
21:24 RealBadAngel in case you havent noticed im hardly trying to fix parallax mapping issue
21:24 hmmmm the thing that you call "not a bug"
21:24 RealBadAngel yet i have to fight with you is using a string "0" and "1" nice or not
21:25 RealBadAngel ofc its not a bug. it just looks bad
21:25 hmmmm the enitre point of your graphical effects is to look nice
21:25 RealBadAngel if it was a bug i could propably fix that in no time
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21:26 hmmmm so
21:26 hmmmm i didn't see a reply to #2844
21:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2844 -- Minimap code and behaviour problems
21:26 hmmmm were you planning on replying to it at all
21:26 RealBadAngel please let me finish what i do have open, ok?
21:27 RealBadAngel i cant work on a few issues at one time
21:27 hmmmm k i just wanted to know if you had ever planned to fix it in the first place
21:27 RealBadAngel last time i was checking that minimap thread there were just 6 "issues"
21:28 RealBadAngel btw,  A better scanning strategy would be more performant - please do compare what we have to what was done in gsmapper
21:29 RealBadAngel it took me a few weeks to make it being so fast as it is now
21:29 RealBadAngel yet you have to make an issue on it :P
21:29 RealBadAngel dont you feel thats just not right?
21:30 hmmmm i'm trying hard to direct minetest development to have a higher level of quality
21:30 hmmmm maybe this new direction isn't what some old devs want
21:31 hmmmm maybe they want to continue shitting out half-assed code that handles no error cases and uses the most naive algorithm possible
21:31 hmmmm with duplicated work
21:31 hmmmm i think the userbase is fed up enough with all this though
21:31 RealBadAngel IF you will have better algorithm for scanning, just let me know
21:31 hmmmm yes
21:32 RealBadAngel atm i managed it to work almost real time
21:32 hmmmm don't scan downward, store the result in a map, and then scan downward a second time
21:32 hmmmm it shouldn't be struggling to do real time
21:33 hmmmm and btw the minimap cache is never evicted, so over time it'll get really large and bogged down
21:33 hmmmm dude let's just put it this way
21:33 RealBadAngel cache is dynamic...
21:33 hmmmm the bar has been raised
21:33 hmmmm will you rise to meet the challenge?
21:34 RealBadAngel you again showed that you dont know the code youre commenting
21:34 RealBadAngel unloading the block is  freeing the cache
21:34 hmmmm and how does that work
21:35 UjE left #minetest-dev
21:36 RealBadAngel sending pos with empty data deletes block from cache
21:36 RealBadAngel ofc if you didnt changed that
21:36 celeron55 i wish RBA would just make code of reasonably quality in the first place...
21:37 celeron55 this is painful to watch
21:37 celeron55 and a waste of everyone's time
21:38 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  so maybe you should have added a note about that instead of mislead people
21:38 hmmmm are you absolutely sure that unloading a block produces an mesh update?
21:38 RealBadAngel hmmmm, actually i was explaining this piece of code to you before
21:38 hmmmm or are you going to say, "I don't need to know how all the rest of the code works"
21:39 hmmmm and then berate me for commenting on code where I might be wrong on some particular detail about it
21:39 hmmmm if I am wrong on some detail about your code that I'm commenting on, there's an opportunity for me to learn more about the code, which is a good thing.  everybody's knowledge increases
21:40 hmmmm scrutinizing code helps a lot.  who cares if we're stuck on some mundane detail about reference dropping for 20 minutes, we all come out more knowledgable after that
21:40 hmmmm and it's not personal
21:43 RealBadAngel im ok with discussing actual improvements. but things like with those strings are just a matter of taste, not even a style
21:43 hmmmm you dismissed every improvement suggested so far
21:43 RealBadAngel and are completely meaningless. yet you flood me with similar things
21:43 RealBadAngel no
21:44 RealBadAngel i am investigating texturesource thing atm
21:44 hmmmm if you really want to define a variable for a constant you should at least define it with the const-qualifier to show your intentions
21:44 hmmmm in regard to the string thing
21:44 hmmmm you really seem hung up on that suggestion
21:44 RealBadAngel it was an example.  already changed that
21:44 hmmmm lol you'd never last at my job
21:45 RealBadAngel tname += normalmap_present ? "1" : "0";
21:45 RealBadAngel tname += tiledef->tileable_horizontal ? "1" : "0";
21:45 RealBadAngel tname += tiledef->tileable_vertical ? "1" : "0";
21:45 hmmmm before I started my current job and worked on a real software development team with real development methodologies, I thought that having a backlog of bugs and memory leaks and all this was common for large projects and par for the course
21:45 hmmmm but it's not
21:45 hmmmm this is not normal at all
21:45 hmmmm minetest really sucks
21:46 sloantothebone https://www.bountysource.com/teams/minetest
21:48 sloantothebone I've been banned from  #minetest for bad connection again :(
21:48 sloantothebone Anybody want to earn some money by contributing to minetest?
21:49 sloantothebone https://www.bountysource.com/teams/minetest
21:52 hmmmm I suppose I can do the text-on-signs one, but any bounties must be donated to the website hosting
21:56 RealBadAngel hmmmm, what makes you think that i do have two copies of generated images?
21:58 hmmmm because I read the code
21:58 hmmmm that code that was too unimportant for you to read
21:59 RealBadAngel instead playing the smartest person in the world, you could just answer
22:00 hmmmm .. I already answered this before
22:01 hmmmm so getShaderFlagsTexture()
22:01 hmmmm on first for that flags texture, you create the image
22:01 RealBadAngel no you havent answered it
22:01 hmmmm write the image
22:01 hmmmm insert the source image into the IMAGE cache
22:01 RealBadAngel yes
22:01 hmmmm then create the texture directly from irrlicht
22:01 hmmmm this is texture instance #1
22:02 hmmmm next time that function gets called, isKnownSourceImage() returns true
22:02 hmmmm so you execute getTexture()
22:02 hmmmm getTexture calls getTextureId()
22:02 hmmmm if the texture ID is not known but the image is, it'll call generateTexture() and then call driver->addTexture
22:02 hmmmm that's copy #2
22:03 hmmmm the difference between these copies are... the one generated in getTexture() is tracked by the TextureSource, and gets deleted on TextureSource destruction
22:03 hmmmm TextureSource has a lifespan of a Game
22:03 hmmmm you can have multiple Games per instance
22:03 RealBadAngel ok, fixed that
22:04 hmmmm so in theory, if you were to keep entering and exiting games, you'll have lots of leaked textures
22:04 hmmmm before you said, "what, it's only 12 bytes!"
22:04 hmmmm oh it's okay guys, I'm only leaking 12 bytes
22:04 hmmmm don't worry
22:04 crazyR would someone be able to add a "warning" log level if they have the time. my C++ skills are virtually non existant or i would add and merge request it myself
22:04 hmmmm crazyR:  that exists in ShadowNinja's log refactoring
22:05 RealBadAngel hmmmm, sorry, you were right. already fixed it
22:05 hmmmm i.e. coming soon
22:05 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  it's okay, I'm only leaking out 4 cc of piss per hour, it's okay
22:05 hmmmm my pants are totally not looking wet
22:06 crazyR hmmmm thanks didnt see that before :D
22:08 Calinou heh http://paulmillr.com/posts/​github-pull-request-stats/
22:08 Calinou C++ projects are untolerating of pull requests
22:31 celeron55 that's not very surprising considering how much easier it is to shoot oneself in the foot with C++
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23:00 crecca hmmmm: are you kwolekr on github?
23:05 RealBadAngel hmmmm, updated my pr
23:33 VanessaE est31:  you remember that in-engine database thing for region storage i.e. Areas mod?  um... we need it worse thant we thought.   my server peaked at 47 users today so far, and that Areas HUD is getting very laggy at that count.
23:38 est31 joined #minetest-dev
23:42 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest-dev
23:43 est31 hmmmm, http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-13#i_4321308
23:43 est31 whats the problem here?
23:43 VanessaE ah, he DOES read the logs :)
23:49 luizrpgluiz it is possible to access the server remotely minetest?
23:49 est31 luizrpgluiz, how do you mean that
23:50 est31 you can start the client, and then you "access the server" :)
23:51 VanessaE I think he means via a remote terminal, ssh or something
23:51 luizrpgluiz yes
23:52 luizrpgluiz because it has a line in minetest.conf called remote_acess
23:54 luizrpgluiz because I was curious if it is possible to access the remote server without being graphically the game
23:54 est31 does it? I can't find it in code
23:54 est31 not yet
23:54 est31 i think hunterz is writing a console, I'm not sure
23:55 est31 it is possible to some extent already, with the irc mod, and the irc_commands
23:56 luizrpgluiz :)

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