Time Nick Message 00:02 est31 anyone knows whether rubenwardy is around 00:02 est31 I wonder what the line limit was on the lua_api.txt 00:03 est31 also they should read through my doc for grammatical errors 00:08 hmmmm est31: kind of 00:09 hmmmm NP_MAP_LOCK_REQUIRED is a macro that we add to APIs that don't actually access the map or environment 00:09 hmmmm CURRENTLY at this very moment, it does nothing but profiles those api calls 00:09 hmmmm but that it could do in the future is unlock and relock the map during its execution 00:10 est31 to allow ... what? 00:10 hmmmm if you write APIs that don't need to be envlocked and don't add that, we'll start to lose an accurate picture of how much time could be recovered by using opportunistic locking 00:11 est31 is the busy part of the mapgen the copying to the map? I guess mapgen itself isnt locked, is it? 00:24 est31 ok #2898 is ready for review 00:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2898 -- Add AreaStore data structure by est31 00:43 asl97 est31: `takes up ~ 80% CPU`, this is before or after? 00:45 asl97 i am guessing before, if i am right, it is missing an after 02:02 hmmmm i'll have to take a look 02:04 hmmmm wow @ the CAO code 02:04 hmmmm magic constants ahoy 03:23 est31 what about this http://pasteboard.co/1RVN4OiJ.png 03:23 est31 why is the mese so wrong here? 03:23 est31 is it the texture? 03:23 * est31 looks at the src 03:27 est31 ah its supposed to be a "light source" 03:27 est31 thats why 04:45 hmmmm so, was there any research into what the bottleneck with the current udp protocl is? 05:07 kaeza what would be the best way to implement "dynamic" items (see http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-07-11#i_4316976 ) currently I intend use a special marker in the metadata which if found loads the rest as JSON to get some properties 05:08 hmmmm sounds... inefficient 05:11 hmmmm that's the way that meta_set_nodedef works though, isn't it? 05:12 est31 we have no json for these data, do we? 05:12 est31 hmmmm, what do you mean with bottlenecks? 05:12 hmmmm est31, the whole reason why people want to use enet is because it offers better transfer speeds 05:12 kaeza I also thought about using a new packet to set this data explicitly, but not sure how to "sync" or get the "id" (if that's even possible) of the itemstack so it can be sent to client for modification 05:13 hmmmm kaeza, if you are talking about setting the item description and such for individual itemstacks, then what you're planning on doing seems to be the way to go about it 05:14 est31 doesnt that work already 05:14 est31 I think Tenplus1's books have that feature 05:14 kaeza hmmmm, I'd also want to modify icon and possibly the capabilities; you think this would be sensible? 05:15 hmmmm it'd be really slow 05:15 hmmmm it all depends on how often these attributes actually need to be accessed 05:15 hmmmm when I say really slow, I mean really slow for something so mundane 05:17 kaeza it looks like it would be a tad slow without some kind of caching which will probably get a bit complex :/ 05:17 hmmmm this is primarily why i don't like the idea behind meta set nodedef 05:18 hmmmm (which, as you might predict, has performance problems) 05:18 est31 ^ 05:19 est31 we can have meta set nodedef if some conditions are met 05:19 hmmmm maybe it'd be doable with just the metadata part 05:19 hmmmm like have special "control" metadata fields have some kind of prefix 05:19 hmmmm __description = "foobarbaz" 05:19 hmmmm i.e. skip the json 05:20 est31 so have a "light" approach 05:20 kaeza hmmmm, problem is itemstack meta is a simple string, not a hashtable/map/whatever 05:20 hmmmm a std::map lookup is quite fast... parsing and loading json, then doing even more parsing and loading and lookups, all for some mundane detail like a string of text to be displayed on a tooltip is sorta dumb 05:20 hmmmm oh that's not good 05:20 est31 e.g. you have a certain string in the nodedef, and the mod gives a function that converts the string into a nodedef 05:20 hmmmm is it possible to change the way itemstack meta works without breaking compatibility? 05:20 kaeza hence the JSON hack 05:20 hmmmm right... don't :( 05:20 hmmmm that makes baby jesus cry 05:21 hmmmm why not have the single "string" metadata be some kind of default key 05:21 hmmmm like a blank string 05:21 hmmmm so item_metadata[""] == "the_metadata_the_way_it_is_right_now" 05:21 hmmmm and then item_metadata["__description"] == "custom itemstack description here." 05:21 est31 so the engine then relies on the fact that the function has same results for same input 05:22 hmmmm and then expose the keys to the lua api somehow in some reverse-compatible manner 05:22 hmmmm ? 05:22 hmmmm does that work?? 05:22 est31 ? 05:22 hmmmm this may be just as simple as the json version of the idea FYI 05:23 est31 do we even send over metadata to the client 05:23 kaeza the itemstack serialization would have to be changed (unless I read that wrong) 05:23 hmmmm i don't doubt it 05:23 est31 well thats doable 05:23 hmmmm this is a worthwhile change 05:24 hmmmm it's a crappy inefficient interface to begin with; fixing it is not something to hold back on 05:24 est31 ^ 05:24 kaeza est31, yes (inventory.cpp:127) 05:24 kaeza eh L 149 05:25 est31 so why do we have to change serialisation? 05:26 est31 only for descriptions? 05:26 hmmmm what about images 05:26 hmmmm name 05:26 est31 if I read it right, its only a client side change? 05:26 hmmmm it's not 05:27 est31 why 05:27 est31 you can already access the metadata on the server cant you 05:27 est31 its sent to the client 05:27 est31 so then the only thing that needs to be done is let the client parse the metadata 05:28 est31 and if we see "description" as key, we take the according key. 05:30 est31 or am I wrong 05:44 hmmmm itemstack metadata currently only exists as an amorphous string 05:44 hmmmm the idea is to change it to send key/value pairs 05:45 est31 ah I see 05:47 est31 lets do this thing 05:47 est31 set_metadata(name, value) 05:48 est31 sets value for name 05:48 est31 set_metadata(string) is legacy 05:48 est31 and will set it for some legacy key 05:48 est31 get_metadata() returns that value for the legacy key too 05:49 est31 and get_metadata(key) returns it for the given key 06:12 RealBadAngel hi guys 06:13 RealBadAngel est31, am i right that you have mentioned lately saving data to the database? 06:13 est31 yes 06:13 RealBadAngel imho thats very crucial 06:14 RealBadAngel have you saw mudlet db code for that? 06:15 est31 no 06:16 RealBadAngel http://wiki.mudlet.org/w/Manual:Lua_Functions#Database_Functions 06:17 RealBadAngel such thing would be perfect 06:19 RealBadAngel dont you think? :) 06:21 est31 hrmm 06:21 est31 I had something higher level in mind 06:21 est31 where you just have a key value store 06:22 RealBadAngel this is transparent, you store tables here 06:23 RealBadAngel thats way better when you have to store mods per player data 06:23 RealBadAngel like ui's waypoints for example 06:24 RealBadAngel btw key storage is already done in fm 06:26 RealBadAngel also, wheres mtgame team? 06:27 RealBadAngel is only paramat active there? 06:33 est31 no he isnt mtgame member 06:33 est31 not yet 06:34 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/minetest_game_Development 06:34 est31 " 06:34 est31 Note: To prevent problems with the development like before minetest_game is maintained by only five people (BlockMen, sfan5, nore, PilzAdam, ShadowNinja). 06:34 est31 " 06:38 * VanessaE peeks in 06:57 hmmmm well 06:57 hmmmm I've been looking at ActiveObjectMessages and I can't see yet *where* a corrupted datastring bug might occur 06:58 est31 Activeobjects are like canaries for lower level network bugs 06:59 est31 because they are the only message i think that actually reads the packet size 06:59 hmmmm yeah, a lot of the existing network code stinks. 07:00 hmmmm i would really love to give it The Treatment(tm) one day 07:00 est31 there has been a bug for example where the packet size got larger, creating tons of active object errors in infostream 07:00 est31 only noticed it after ive turned infostream on to test my srp patch 07:00 hmmmm :/ 07:00 hmmmm a lot of errors are going completely unnoticed 07:01 VanessaE hmmmm: no... not the TREATMENT. Anything but THAT! 07:01 est31 thats why im against hiding errors from chat 07:01 est31 its like not building these tiny lamps into your car 07:01 VanessaE est31: the problem with letting errors into the chat is the same problem with not trimming ginormous chat messages - all that text filling the screen will kill the client FPS, sometimes hanging it up entirely. 07:02 hmmmm this is just me, but I sort of doubt this has to do with (de)serialization errors 07:02 hmmmm look at handleCommand_ActiveObjectMessages 07:02 est31 #2636 07:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2636 -- Verbose logging bloated regression 07:04 hmmmm so it creates the istringstream, then goes into this loop where it iterates until it runs out of data to consume 07:04 hmmmm first thing it does is checks if eof, so data with 0 length can't cause an error 07:04 hmmmm next, the ID is read 07:05 hmmmm ahh okay nevermind 07:05 hmmmm this is the problem right here 07:05 RealBadAngel hmmmm, so are you going to do something with mistaken "512" values in minimap? 07:05 RealBadAngel you have messed it badly 07:05 hmmmm tell me how 07:05 hmmmm if there's a bug I'll definitely fix it 07:05 hmmmm no questions asked 07:05 RealBadAngel minimap size and image size are two different cases 07:06 hmmmm well 07:06 RealBadAngel image size is meant to be 512x512 and downscaled 07:06 RealBadAngel but mapsize is max 256 07:06 hmmmm so you're saying there are two cases were the 512s should be different constants? 07:06 RealBadAngel yes 07:06 hmmmm maybe you shouldn'tve put in magic numbers like that which can be confused 07:07 RealBadAngel indeed 07:07 hmmmm like what is "512"? is it the number of stars in the sky? 07:07 RealBadAngel i will remember that lesson 07:07 hmmmm sorry about the bug. 07:07 hmmmm please, when I give feedback in a code review, listen to it 07:07 hmmmm rather than have me do it and possibly do it wrong 07:07 RealBadAngel when images are created ive picked 512x512 image size 07:08 RealBadAngel folks are using big screens so having highres image base is good 07:08 hmmmm est31: okay, so handleCommand_ActiveObjectMessages() seems to be a potential problem. you were right, it was a low-level serialization handling issue 07:09 RealBadAngel but map size is max 256x256 because of the engine limit 07:09 hmmmm est31: I ruled it out earlier because I mistakenly thought the remaining data was checked /before/ the length parameter was extracted 07:09 RealBadAngel it simply doesnt load enough blocks to fill that area 07:13 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8804c47e59b550ec9a533de662f086af623d68c1 07:13 hmmmm jesus.. christ.. 07:17 hmmmm and this 07:18 hmmmm what the FUCK is this supposed to do 07:18 hmmmm u32 msgsize = src.size(); 07:18 hmmmm if (msgsize > 0xFFFFFFFF) { 07:18 hmmmm msgsize = 0xFFFFFFFF; 07:18 hmmmm } 07:18 hmmmm oh my god 07:18 hmmmm no. nerzhul does not get to add enet 07:18 est31 that has been in before 07:18 hmmmm i am going to get people mad at me no doubt 07:18 est31 he copy pasted 07:18 est31 but yes horrible 07:18 hmmmm exactly 07:18 hmmmm he copy pasted 07:18 hmmmm it's like he doesn't give a shit at all 07:19 hmmmm this is some of the most critical code to minetest 07:19 hmmmm there's no care, no consideration, code is flung around like monkeys fling poop 07:19 hmmmm some kind of bug caused by my code? 07:20 hmmmm add a couple of absolutely useless error handlers 07:20 hmmmm that'll fix the problem 07:20 RealBadAngel hmmmm, dont be too strict, mt is not a nasa project ;) 07:20 hmmmm lookit 07:20 crecca :D 07:20 hmmmm i've tried to not be too strict and you know where it gets us? 07:21 RealBadAngel jokin 07:21 crecca not to the moon! 07:21 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/0.4.10/src/client.cpp#L2086 07:21 hmmmm a shitheap of regressions and bugs so large, that nobody can make any meaningful progress because we're too busy playing perpetual clean up 07:21 est31 here it makes even sense 07:21 est31 because its size_t 07:21 RealBadAngel but seriously, when dozens of folks have messed with a function such situations will happen no matter what 07:22 RealBadAngel and each one next will say "wtf" 07:23 hmmmm and we can't let that happen 07:23 hmmmm that needs to end - as it stands right now I'm embarassed to have my name associated with this project 07:23 hmmmm there's no quality 07:23 hmmmm the only thing worse than minetest is freeminer 07:23 RealBadAngel lol 07:24 RealBadAngel actually proller made a few good things we dont have 07:24 hmmmm .. i think i'll pass 07:24 RealBadAngel please no 07:25 RealBadAngel was just jokin 07:25 RealBadAngel quality is good 07:25 RealBadAngel and youre right person to make the pressure on us 07:26 hmmmm i don't want to be required to put pressure on everybody else 07:26 hmmmm everybody else should have the same attitude 07:26 RealBadAngel should but will never have 07:26 RealBadAngel we are not the same 07:26 hmmmm right, because of the kinds of coders this project attracts 07:26 hmmmm it's just a silly game 07:26 hmmmm silly kids play and code the game 07:27 hmmmm it's broken? who cares, it's just a game 07:27 RealBadAngel we are not silly 07:27 RealBadAngel and thats not nasa project 07:27 RealBadAngel its our hobby 07:27 hmmmm it certainly seems that way when a user encounters some retarded error caused by not using any care whatsoever in writing code and then decides that "lol this minetest thing sucks. gonna go try out terasology" 07:28 hmmmm there are many minecraft clones out there 07:28 est31 there are many people in the minetest modding world who only know lua and would wish to contribute to the c++ code too, but dont have the knowledge to do so 07:28 RealBadAngel so we shall learn from it 07:28 hmmmm :( 07:28 hmmmm lots of C++ beginners 07:28 RealBadAngel im learning from your comments to my code 07:28 RealBadAngel really 07:29 est31 me too, I've learnt alot from you hmmmm. 07:29 hmmmm :( 07:29 hmmmm jesus christ what kinds of coders do we have on this project 07:29 hmmmm oh well 07:29 hmmmm i'll turn you into C++ machines 07:30 RealBadAngel hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2897/files#diff-8b1361a90a460ea33ecf3db026997f8aR2077 07:30 RealBadAngel see? :) 07:30 hmmmm :) 07:31 RealBadAngel thats all because of you ;) 07:31 hmmmm don't mean to be naggy but 07:31 RealBadAngel yes? 07:32 hmmmm first of all, "bool normalmap_present = tile->normal_texture ? true : false;" isn't necessary 07:32 hmmmm you can make that 07:32 hmmmm bool normalmap_present = tile->normal_texture 07:32 hmmmm or if you want to make the conversion to from a pointer type to bool explicit, "bool normalmap_present = !!tile->normal_texture; 07:33 hmmmm then, to add a single character to a std::string, you could use push_back() 07:33 est31 interesting trick 07:33 est31 the !! one 07:33 RealBadAngel pushback is not as obvious as += 07:33 hmmmm so you can turn tname += normalmap_present ? strue : sfalse; into tname.push_back(normalmap_present ? '1' : '0'); 07:34 hmmmm or if you want to feel extra clever 07:34 hmmmm tname.push_back('0' + normalmap_present); 07:34 RealBadAngel that is what i mean 07:35 RealBadAngel from just taking a look one wont know what the code does 07:35 RealBadAngel too tricky 07:37 est31 '0' + normalmap_present is bad style agree 07:38 RealBadAngel so, hmmmm dont push that ;) 07:38 hmmmm well i did say, if you're feeling extra clever 07:38 hmmmm being clever is not necessarily a good thing 07:39 RealBadAngel anyway, push for me feels like using a stack 07:39 hmmmm it's the only way to append a single char onto a std::string 07:39 hmmmm append() only has a std::string variant 07:39 hmmmm and operator+ is a wrapper for append 07:39 RealBadAngel += "a" also appends one 07:40 hmmmm i suppose so, it converts that "a" into a std::string and does a lot of other unnecessary things too though 07:41 RealBadAngel but gain in speed is not worth it imho 07:42 RealBadAngel i can fight for changes that can save us lotsa time 07:43 RealBadAngel but not such small things, that have impact next to nothing 07:44 RealBadAngel hmmmm, other thing. how about client side lua? 07:44 RealBadAngel are you doing something in this direction? 07:44 hmmmm what about it 07:44 hmmmm yes 07:44 RealBadAngel cool 07:44 hmmmm i am working on a bunch of bugs then going to start on client side lua 07:44 RealBadAngel we definitely need it 07:45 est31 how again can i make a for loop in lua that does for(i = 0; i < n; i++) 07:45 RealBadAngel when im done with current shaders issues, i do plan to work on drawtypes 07:46 RealBadAngel i plan to make wires, tubes, signs and terminals 07:46 RealBadAngel all those things that make number of nodedefs grow insanely 07:46 hmmmm oh god 07:47 hmmmm NetworkPacket has a huge security hole in it 07:47 RealBadAngel can we get a virus through it? ;) 07:48 hmmmm well, you can definitely cause a crash 07:48 est31 thats category "security" then 07:48 Calinou est31, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lua+for+loop&ia=qa :) 07:48 * RealBadAngel can almost see buch of chineese hackers exploiting that hole to get control over all mt servers in the world ;) 07:49 RealBadAngel brb, going out for shopping 07:49 hmmmm :/ 07:50 hmmmm honestly I'd rather rewrite NetworkPacket than deal with all of these security problems 07:51 hmmmm the entire thing is a giant security flaw 07:51 hmmmm checkReadOffset() is cute, but it doesn't really help the case where a read of a size is requested larger than there is data available 07:52 hmmmm and then all of the string functions/operators don't even have checkReadOffset() 08:10 est31 ~ping 08:10 ShadowBot pong 08:10 est31 both kwolekr and RBA have ping timeout? 08:10 est31 and no netsplit? 08:11 est31 w31rd ... 09:16 VanessaE what'r the odds? oOoooooOOoooOOOooOOO 09:16 VanessaE :) 09:16 Krock huh? 09:17 VanessaE late response to est31 09:47 RealBadAngel i am rising the PR once again 09:47 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1651 09:47 est31 wow thats old 09:47 RealBadAngel how can it be that modern game does not have a music 09:47 RealBadAngel are all devs deaf? 09:48 RealBadAngel we can use decent free of charge music source 09:50 RealBadAngel atm, since always, minetest seems like being developed by a bunch of deaf guys 09:51 RealBadAngel "farting" issue when flyin even proves that 09:52 RealBadAngel hmmm, intel cpu, and others just do not care about sounds 09:53 RealBadAngel but folks that download our game do 09:53 RealBadAngel we are half naked 09:53 crecca there is also large room for improvement with sound effects 09:54 RealBadAngel ofc there is 09:54 RealBadAngel but stubborns like PilzAdam are blocking everything 09:54 crecca the sound of nature should be the music in-game 09:55 RealBadAngel mt is able to play client cached music since always 09:55 RealBadAngel it doesnt even have to be sent by server 09:56 RealBadAngel i cannot see any single fucking reason we are not using that 09:56 RealBadAngel except for PilzAdam's being stubborn 09:56 crecca stubborn in what way? what does he say about it? 09:56 RealBadAngel show me single fucking game without music 09:57 RealBadAngel even sudoku on mobile has music 09:57 RealBadAngel crecca, he just refuses it 09:59 RealBadAngel not the particular score, but using music at all 09:59 crecca menu music can work but in most games it doesn't and sounds awful 09:59 crecca but if it works it's worth it 09:59 RealBadAngel have you heard the scores i proposed? 09:59 crecca good example of good menu music is worms 09:59 crecca I'm about to 10:00 crecca but where can I find it? 10:00 est31 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/menu_music/sounds/main_menu.ogg 10:01 RealBadAngel thats fuckin right 10:02 crecca It's a nice score 10:02 crecca although bit serious 10:02 RealBadAngel this is imho piece that promises chalenghe, fun and mystery 10:03 crecca but sets a mood for medieval themes, with those horns and big drums 10:03 RealBadAngel we are serious 10:03 RealBadAngel so theme should be 10:03 RealBadAngel its a bit cinematic, and i love that way 10:04 RealBadAngel anyway, that guy have produced hundreds of pieces for freely usage 10:05 RealBadAngel most of them are decent 10:05 crecca yeah it should be cinematic, evoke images of some story going on, but minetest have many different themes depending how you play 10:05 RealBadAngel we are just dumb not using them 10:05 crecca it is a sandbox after all 10:05 crecca after hearing this music you feel obliged to build a castle :D 10:05 RealBadAngel above was picked for main menu only 10:06 crecca but it is not all-medieval, only a little bit 10:06 crecca i think it should be a little bit medieval, a little bit electronic, a little bit field recording... 10:07 RealBadAngel i will make a repo now 10:07 RealBadAngel hold on 10:07 crecca descent (old game, if you can remember it) also had good score 10:08 crecca cinematic yes, but choosing a music for a game is more difficult than for a movie, imho 10:08 VanessaE RealBadAngel: regarding issue 1328, you should add something indicating why you've closed it. 10:08 est31 #1328 10:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1328 -- Add 3D torches by BlockMen 10:08 VanessaE I was avoiding that... 10:09 est31 I wanted a clickable link 10:09 est31 still thinking that 2d torches are stupid 10:10 RealBadAngel est31, VanessaE these were outdated 10:10 VanessaE ok 10:10 RealBadAngel extruded ones are way better 10:10 est31 but need more polygons, no? 10:10 RealBadAngel extruded are animated 10:11 RealBadAngel yes they do 10:11 VanessaE RealBadAngel: homedecor "3dforniture" torches 10:11 VanessaE FAR fewer faces than would be created by extruding, and still animated nicely imho 10:11 RealBadAngel we need to pick up one way 10:12 RealBadAngel blockmen's one was wrong 10:12 RealBadAngel more like a hack than a solution 10:13 RealBadAngel not to say we do have too many issues open 10:13 RealBadAngel ive closed a few that i can judge 10:19 kahrl_ please do not use this main_menu.ogg. If I ever rewatch kurtjmac's season 4 intro, I don't want to be reminded of the formspec mess that minetest's main menu is 8) 10:19 RealBadAngel kahrl_, repo of the music aviable from that guy is HUGE 10:20 RealBadAngel i am uploading now repo with selections, picked of how i feel them 10:20 kahrl_ most of the "epic" themed music is pretty overused though 10:20 RealBadAngel please hold on 10:21 RealBadAngel but anyway 10:21 RealBadAngel i am mt contributor, only app i do run is mt 10:22 RealBadAngel except for developing tools 10:22 RealBadAngel i did turned on my speakers on for the very first time since half a yr or something 10:23 RealBadAngel mt doesnt offer anything to your ears simply 10:23 RealBadAngel its a deaf game 10:23 RealBadAngel sounds used are annoying and to be skipped just 10:25 RealBadAngel theres no such situation like in mc that i was lookin for mob drop (a record) to get a piece of music and play it at my base 10:25 RealBadAngel shame on US 10:26 RealBadAngel not only lunatics but deaf lunatics :P 10:28 VanessaE on another note, 10:29 VanessaE kilbith suggested that the "lite" mode I added to Unified Inventory be used, with some polishing, as a built-in replacement for the existing inventory display. 10:29 est31 yea like no worldedit or trash buttons 10:29 VanessaE that's easily done. 10:30 kahrl_ RealBadAngel: I wasn't really serious :P I'm not against music in the main menu or the game, although I won't vote for or against particular pieces (since I would probably disable them anyway) 10:30 VanessaE the worldedit button is actually added by that mod 10:30 VanessaE the trash button is supposed to only be visible in creative mode 10:30 RealBadAngel kahrl_, one can have speaker off, or disable that 10:31 RealBadAngel but modern game without music is unacceptable at all 10:31 kahrl_ I'd disable them because music in games tends to get repetitive (except in story driven games where the music is composed to directly fit some cutscene, I guess) 10:31 kahrl_ but yeah, I guess it's expected that there is some 10:31 * est31 ^ 10:31 est31 (to the first statement) 10:31 RealBadAngel kahrl_, im uploading now about 30 picked pieces of music 10:32 RealBadAngel grouped them in folders where they could fit imo 10:33 RealBadAngel its several hours of continous playtime 10:35 RealBadAngel some of them are "peace of mind" some hardcore 10:35 VanessaE RBA: were these those tunes from...Skaven I think? or were they from that guy who had like hundreds of tunes of various genres? 10:37 kahrl_ VanessaE: main_menu.ogg is from incompetech.com by Kevin MacLeod 10:37 VanessaE that's the latter option then :) 10:37 RealBadAngel VanessaE, no 10:37 RealBadAngel Kevin's 10:38 VanessaE yeah, that's what I meant 10:38 VanessaE couldn't remember the site 10:38 RealBadAngel hes allowing freely usage 10:39 RealBadAngel but imho when we decide to use his tunes we shall put there a link with his paypal 10:39 RealBadAngel his tunes are worth it 10:40 kahrl_ well attribution is required by the license anyway 10:40 RealBadAngel i will personally send him a few bucks for a few beers 10:40 RealBadAngel howgh 10:42 RealBadAngel 97%, should end shortly 10:43 Calinou <+RealBadAngel> hes allowing freely usage 10:43 Calinou we need a free license, more than just "free usage" 10:44 kahrl_ Calinou: it's CC-BY 3 10:44 Calinou ok 10:48 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic 10:48 kahrl_ so how is the main menu music chosen by the engine? is it a fixed file or does it depend on the chosen subgame? 10:48 RealBadAngel uploaded 10:48 RealBadAngel kahrl_, asfair i coded that games can force own scores 10:49 kahrl_ ah good 10:49 RealBadAngel so theyre able to override mt main one 10:50 kahrl_ I don't think the engine should come with music 10:50 kahrl_ it should be part of minetest_game 10:50 RealBadAngel it should 10:50 RealBadAngel with one for where theres no game 10:50 RealBadAngel or no picked one yet 10:51 RealBadAngel our score, an embleem 10:51 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blob/master/server%20/Our%20Story%20Begins.mp3 10:51 RealBadAngel listen to this 10:52 RealBadAngel that could fit 10:53 kahrl_ it's nice but you can't ensure it will fit all subgames or all servers 10:54 kahrl_ 1:25 10:54 kahrl_ that's way too short 10:55 kahrl_ while the user is still browsing the server list, the music will restart and the user will get annoyed at the repetitive music 10:56 RealBadAngel there are many scores 10:57 RealBadAngel my selections are due to the feel of them 10:58 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blob/master/menu/The%20Descent.mp3 10:58 RealBadAngel this is imho the best for menu 10:59 RealBadAngel i do have it in my pocket mp3 player for almost a yr 10:59 RealBadAngel and i would love it to be known as mt main score 11:00 RealBadAngel it reminds me The Rock with Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage 11:00 RealBadAngel its the same style 11:04 kahrl_ I still don't see the problem with making it a part of minetest_game 11:05 kahrl_ people that use the official builds will have minetest_game 11:07 kahrl_ people that don't have it by default are mostly power users and can decide for themselves if they want to have it or not 11:12 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blob/master/server%20/Our%20Story%20Begins.mp3 could be used for world loading 11:12 RealBadAngel yes, but 11:12 RealBadAngel whos gonna vote for it? 11:12 RealBadAngel mt game team? 11:12 RealBadAngel theres no such team 11:13 RealBadAngel its dead 11:13 RealBadAngel theres only paramat active 11:13 RealBadAngel stubborn PA 11:13 RealBadAngel and no one else 11:14 RealBadAngel and even paramat is not formally a mtgame dev 11:14 kahrl_ that would be a reason to fix the issue with minetest_game development, not a reason to add music to the engine where it doesn't belong 11:14 RealBadAngel those are two separate things 11:15 RealBadAngel altough havin no active mt game team exludes such changes being merged 11:15 RealBadAngel lets put it other way 11:16 RealBadAngel im active dev for 2 yrs or so already 11:16 RealBadAngel do i deserve to hear a piece of music in my project or not? 11:16 RealBadAngel do i have to patch the sources constantly? 11:17 kahrl_ being active for that long means you should know we don't want to have content in the engine 11:17 kahrl_ instead it's defined by subgames 11:17 RealBadAngel read the patch 11:17 RealBadAngel it allows games to play music 11:18 RealBadAngel but any way, we dont have any 11:18 kahrl_ the patch is adding music to the engine 11:18 RealBadAngel and the games 11:19 RealBadAngel main score for the engine and switcheable for games 11:21 * RealBadAngel is walkin currently in desert biome: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blob/master/desert/Tabuk.mp3 11:23 RealBadAngel kahrl_, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYMAuPEiE8 11:24 RealBadAngel you know this? 11:26 kahrl_ no 11:26 kahrl_ but well 11:26 kahrl_ it's a medieval themed game 11:26 kahrl_ but the minetest engine has no theme 11:26 RealBadAngel its a piece that i love since 15 yrs 11:27 RealBadAngel made by Paul Romero 11:27 RealBadAngel i do play HOMM3 since it was released, all the time 11:27 RealBadAngel never turned the music off 11:28 VanessaE bbl 11:28 RealBadAngel be it medievelal or whatever 11:28 RealBadAngel its a piece to love and remember 11:29 RealBadAngel yet our project has little reasons to turn the speaker on... 11:29 RealBadAngel do you get my point? 11:30 RealBadAngel atm you could as well disable all the sound in game 11:30 RealBadAngel its a fucking noise, nothin more 11:33 kahrl_ sound effect quality is a different issue 11:33 kahrl_ although still minetest_game ;) 11:34 kahrl_ I do agree that the current sounds are bad 11:36 RealBadAngel you know what? 11:36 RealBadAngel lets make it this way 11:37 RealBadAngel until this https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blob/master/menu/The%20Descent.mp3 11:37 RealBadAngel goes as main menu score, i am hanging all coding for mt project 11:37 kahrl_ extortion? 11:37 kahrl_ yay 11:37 RealBadAngel and i mean it 11:38 Calinou we do need more sound effects 11:38 kilbith RealBadAngel: have you ever listened musics from 0ad or Hedgewars ? 11:38 Calinou we don't even have pain/death sounds 11:38 RealBadAngel so do it 11:38 RealBadAngel my way is in effect since now 11:39 RealBadAngel no more code for mt if this is not merged 11:39 Calinou we could as well have respawn/teleport sounds, and lava/water ambient sound 11:41 kilbith RBA, your musics sound like the intro of action movies 11:42 kilbith this is epic theme that doesn't suit that game 11:42 RealBadAngel kilbith, menu should be an ivitation to adventure 11:42 kilbith there is not enough challenge in MT 11:42 RealBadAngel and a piece for what you will remember the app 11:43 kilbith even optionally, challenges are shit compared to MC 11:43 RealBadAngel yes, mt is lacking this 11:43 RealBadAngel we dont have reasons for users to remember our game 11:43 kilbith the only existing challenge is griefing and attacking ppl 11:43 RealBadAngel time to change that 11:43 kilbith exciting* 11:44 RealBadAngel i am coding AV stuff 11:44 RealBadAngel since now i wasnt allowed to change anything realated to this "A" 11:44 kilbith i'd prefer a polished VBO patch now, honestly 11:44 kilbith rather than a music 11:45 RealBadAngel you will 11:45 kilbith let that stuff to the artists 11:45 RealBadAngel when the music will be merged 11:45 RealBadAngel not any minute sooner 11:45 RealBadAngel until then i will not code anything more 11:45 kilbith it's blackmail ^ 11:46 RealBadAngel yes it is 11:48 RealBadAngel i do earned that right i think 11:49 RealBadAngel if all of you think different way, maybe its a good time for me to make my fork 11:49 RealBadAngel and say goodbye 11:49 RealBadAngel for this time, i am serious and i really mean it 11:50 kilbith i think you need a good nap :) 11:51 RealBadAngel music pr was here for long enough 11:51 RealBadAngel you want AV coder? let him code things 11:51 crecca sound effects define how the game sounds, not the menu music 11:52 crecca the menu music should come last, so it finds with the sound design used in-game 11:52 RealBadAngel im off by now, bbl 11:52 crecca so it fits* 11:53 crecca for example there are already bird-songs in-game, I think it should be developed, it is very cool. 11:53 crecca I've heard sounds of the wind on some servers, albeit really crappy ones, it is a good idea. 11:53 crecca Echoing caverns is another thing that can add to the mood. 11:54 crecca In a world like this, a full-band classical orchestra coming out of nowhere doesn't make sense 11:55 crecca you have to be Stanley Kubrick to pull that off 11:55 kilbith agreed 11:55 crecca but that is a problem with many games and movies seem to repeat over and over again... 11:56 kilbith more generally that's bad idea that devs replace the work of the artists 11:56 kilbith it's like if my garagist would be self-improvised carpenter 11:56 crecca at least wear an artist cap... 13:48 est31 whats av stuff 13:50 H-H-H audio visual ? 13:51 est31 ah thats the a part 15:45 H-H-H ok need to do some diffing lol just built the fdroid repo source tgz for android and the sound works fine on my devices yet with master built the same way it doesnt 16:06 crecca Is the majority of minetest development done on GNU/Linux? 16:07 crecca I mean minetest core and minetest_game 16:07 crecca is the development on Windows even viable? 16:08 * H-H-H gave up on winblows and switced to linux yrs ago 16:29 sfan5 crecca: you can do minetest development on windows 16:29 sfan5 cmake works on windows 16:30 sfan5 you can use either visual studio or mingw 16:30 sfan5 git also works on windows 16:30 crecca yeah i was thinking that 16:30 sfan5 but most of the core devs use linux 16:31 crecca I'm asking just to know if the familiarity with unix is a requirement or just an option for the stubborn 16:33 sfan5 requirement for what? 16:34 crecca for being able to work on minetest code 16:34 sfan5 it's not a requirement 16:35 sfan5 it would probably even be an advantage to use windows for development 16:35 sfan5 a lot of code is written but not tested on windows 16:36 Krock yeah, just ask me when a windows tester is needed .. 16:38 crecca sfan5: okay that's good then that the game can be developed on windows too 16:39 crecca although you can use VM for the purpose of testing and debugging 16:41 H-H-H also the game is lua so can be developed on anything that can read/write txt files :P the engine is a different beast entirely 16:41 crecca H-H-H: right 17:25 paramat hi sfan5 please could you review game#562 ? currently the favourite seems to be asl97's 2nd subtle edit of gambit's texture 17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/562 -- Default: New ice texture by Gambit by paramat 17:27 sfan5 paramat: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4752645/8611487/62282e18-26f4-11e5-8c66-67ade8065c74.png this one? 17:44 paramat yes asl97's most recent edit 17:45 paramat so yes that one 17:47 Hunterz hi paramat, try create something like volcano biome... 17:49 paramat that's difficult, they would be tiny 17:49 paramat i might try adding large ones in a future mapgen though 17:50 paramat sfan thanks for attending to game, it's really neglected recently 17:53 paramat now i need a 2nd +1 from the team *sigh* (waits to pounce) 18:04 sloantothebone Hello, can you add in-game .conf editing? 18:04 sloantothebone I know you have /set but I'd like to see a gui in the menu that opens when you first open minetest 18:05 sloantothebone with a settings button 18:05 sloantothebone Do you need more detail 18:05 est31 its doable in a mod 18:05 sloantothebone You can change the menu with mods? 18:06 est31 ah you mean main menu 18:06 est31 no 18:06 sloantothebone Yeah main menu 18:06 sloantothebone Is the main menu written in lua? 18:06 est31 yes 18:06 sloantothebone Ok how do I edit .conf in lua 18:07 est31 its hte Settings object read it up 18:07 est31 the* 18:07 paramat 'setting set' i think 18:08 paramat see lua_api.txt 18:18 sloantothebone Lua_api.txt? 18:19 crecca there is also menu_lua_api.txt 18:20 sloantothebone Is it possible to delete the map for a world in lua? 18:20 crecca although it might be only in the development version 18:21 sloantothebone I might want to add a checkmark under "creative mode" and "damage enabled" called "hardcore mode" where it deletes the map when you die in a world 18:22 paramat these modding questions are best asked in the other channel 18:22 sloantothebone Ok 18:25 est31 well its mainmenu modding 18:41 est31 I spoke with celeron55 about a new website design 18:41 est31 idea is we hold a contest of designs 18:42 crecca est31: woah, awesome 18:43 est31 new page will be hosted at github pages and will be static 18:45 crecca not so awesome... 18:46 crecca (the github part) 18:47 paramat sorry sloantothebone i may be wrong about moving the subject to the other channel, so forget what i wrote =) 18:48 celeron55 crecca: can you explain why that wouldn't be awesome? 18:48 crecca celeron55: github is not a free platform 18:48 sloantothebone Oh 18:48 celeron55 it's the only lightweight way to make a site editable by many members of the community but still have a flexible lightweight-to-make visual style 18:49 H-H-H set up gitlab thats free iirc 18:49 hmmmm I don't think there should be music in minetest 18:49 crecca celeron55: yes that is true 18:49 hmmmm everybody would just turn it off and listen to their dedicated music player anyway 18:49 est31 github only demands money from people who want to hide their source from the world 18:50 hmmmm if it does happen though, I propose we change the main menu music to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnHm4ro_l8s 18:50 celeron55 crecca: feel free to suggest something else though 18:50 celeron55 crecca: the current site is hosted by me and is a dokuwiki instance with a custom template 18:50 celeron55 making those templates can get kind of clumsy 18:53 sloantothebone Is the Lua compiled? 18:54 est31 sloantothebone, yes if you activate LuaJIT 18:54 sloantothebone and if it is, would certain mods run faster in singleplayer if parts of it were ran client-side (when the api has that capability)? 18:54 sloantothebone Can I make minetest run faster with luajit? 18:54 est31 it wont be faster, but will have less lag and less load on multiplayer servers 18:54 est31 yes definitely 18:55 sloantothebone Why isnt luajit included with minetest? 18:55 crecca celeron55: yup I understand; the github pages service is a good one, if you don't want to pay for hosting it will be hard to find an alternative that is on par 18:55 crecca at least the last time I checked 18:55 est31 sloantothebone, we dont include everything, only whats required for a "minimal" game experience 18:55 est31 and even that has been softened i think 18:55 est31 after all we dont ship sqlite anymore 18:55 hmmmm luajit is specific to x86/64 18:56 est31 no 18:56 crecca If I'll have anything I'll let you know 18:56 est31 but platforms are limited yes 18:56 sloantothebone Can you make a reccomendation for luajit on the download page? 18:56 est31 hmmmm, http://luajit.org/luajit.html 18:56 hmmmm oh it seems they have arm, ppc, e500 and mips too 18:56 hmmmm what is e500? 18:56 sloantothebone I'm trying to find a deb to install it 18:56 hmmmm ah, another PPC variant it seems 18:57 sloantothebone Unless all I need are build-essential to compile it 18:57 hmmmm no SPARC? 18:57 hmmmm :/ 18:58 hmmmm so I'd be able to theoretically run luajit on everything except my HP 9000 and the SunBlade 18:58 hmmmm and the VaxStation of course 18:58 hmmmm lol minetest on a vaxstation 18:58 est31 im not sure whether all platforms support actual JIT 18:58 est31 or only can use the assembler written parser 19:00 hmmmm heh I bet minetest would be too buggy to play on the more obscure platforms 19:00 hmmmm e.g. i caught a bunch of instances where people wrote code like... "int foobar = some_u16_value_here" 19:00 est31 yea 19:00 est31 even c_converter.h has that issue 19:00 est31 you have getintfield_default 19:01 est31 not well defined at all 19:01 hmmmm unfortunately you can't fix stupid 19:01 hmmmm i've been realizing lately that no matter how many polices, rules, etc. you put into place, there is no substitute for pure competence in terms of making code good 19:01 Calinou supa 1337 indeed 19:02 est31 you sorta have to live the culture hmmmm i think 19:02 hmmmm I can't force would-be core developers to read CERT C secure coding standards 19:02 hmmmm or read K&R 19:03 hmmmm so this is why you get cargo culted code like "u32 foobar = blah; if (foobar > 0xffffffff) ..." 19:04 hmmmm we would be a huge advantage if we made developers explain exactly the reason why every single line of code they write is necessary to be there 19:04 hmmmm "so why did you write this line? uhh.." 19:04 hmmmm "lol i dunno because the other thing did it" 19:04 crecca maybe if you don't use the extension modules in your luajit code, you can just run good ol' lua parser, instead of luajit 19:05 crecca or maybe I'm completely wrong 19:05 hmmmm aren't the only extension modules FFI and BitOp? 19:06 crecca http://luajit.org/extensions.html 19:06 crecca few more 19:06 hmmmm hmm 19:07 est31 luajit btw does have a fix for valgrind you only have to recompile it with another config option 19:09 sfan5 im not sure whether all platforms support actual JIT 19:09 sfan5 every modern processor can support JIT 19:09 sfan5 no matter which architecture 19:10 est31 well not a harvard one 19:10 sfan5 crecca: also you can build minetest with standard lua, luajit is not required 19:11 est31 but my point was more directed towards whether luajit supports it 19:11 sfan5 is there any modern proccessor with havard arch.? 19:11 est31 not jit in general 19:11 celeron55 crecca: well i mean, if github pages goes paid or starts doing something that we don't like, i can just implement some kind of a repo puller on my VPS 19:11 est31 no, but I think some optimisations have weaked up von neumann 19:11 celeron55 crecca: but as long as github pages exist for free, it's not worth it to build the same thing oneself 19:11 est31 but you wont see anything performance wise i think 19:12 crecca celeron55: yeah that's why it's a minor issue, hosts can always be changed, if the situation changes 19:12 celeron55 we just have to make sure we aren't using any fancy stuff that's hard to implement on another host 19:12 celeron55 not sure if they offer anything like that right now 19:12 crecca it's just not "awesome" 19:13 crecca it's the service that is the most convenient, not the actual technical functionality 19:14 crecca (and github totally understood this when they introduced github pages) 19:16 crecca sfan5: I just realized I don't have luajit installed lol 19:18 * crecca recompiles 19:18 sfan5 you possible need to delete CMakeCache.txt and CMakeFiles to make cmake redo library detection 19:18 sfan5 possibly* 19:20 sloantothebone I need help with troubleshooting, my chat is laggy 19:20 sloantothebone So is the inventory 19:20 crecca yeah good call 19:20 sloantothebone I get messages in irc before I get them in minetest 19:21 sfan5 that doesn't automatically mean that your lagging 19:21 sfan5 also please discuss this in #minetest 19:45 Calinou seriously, can someone fix the glitches where a respawned player is not really teleported? 20:06 hmmmm is there an issue on github for it 20:13 Calinou nope 20:14 est31 is it that "moved too fast -- resetting position" thing 20:14 Calinou it is not related 20:14 Calinou it happens on servers with anticheat disabled 20:15 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2903 20:15 est31 doesnt it give any logging message? 20:16 est31 I see the hunger games creators have "fixed" it by teleporting players every second to the starting positions during countdown 20:17 Calinou nothing happens in logs IIRC 20:19 sfan5 est31: i think thats a seperate feature not a fix for that bug 20:20 est31 sfan5, its both 20:20 est31 perhaps accidental fix 20:20 est31 dunno 20:20 est31 im not the author :) 20:27 paramat hey mtgame team, can anyone give the ice texture the second necessary +1? Tesseract? 20:28 kilbith this is so cosmetical stuff that you don't need to IMO 20:33 est31 Tesseract, you also are one of the few engine devs to have the knowledge required to review #2898 20:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2898 -- Add AreaStore data structure by est31 20:34 est31 (and you are the areas mod author, to where I've sent another PR) 20:34 paramat sfan5 how about my approval counting since i added the snow biomes myself? 20:34 sfan5 it's a texture issue 20:34 sfan5 biome does not matter 20:35 sfan5 (or who added it) 20:40 paramat yes that's what i thought =) 21:36 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1908 21:36 Calinou makes sprinting feel much better, still automatically merge-able 21:37 hmmmm i hate these parameter adjustment CLs 21:37 hmmmm can we please stop doing them 21:38 hmmmm if you want to change something, write some actual code to make it adjustable and then set the /default/ to what you think is better 21:42 Calinou do we really need a minetest.conf setting for this? 21:42 Calinou this is not DarkPlaces, we don't want ~2500 settings :P 21:44 hmmmm it's vastly more productive than making a PR to change some numerical constant whose effect is up to the creator's subjective tastes 21:44 hmmmm we want code, not opinions 21:45 sfan5 what a shitty way to do discussions 21:45 sfan5 saying something and then leaving irc 21:45 hmmmm didn't notice that 21:45 hmmmm oh well, he can see the logs 21:52 hmmmm can anybody point me to the issue on github for the flat player glitch? 22:03 * VanessaE peeks in 22:05 VanessaE hmmmm: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2524 22:05 VanessaE sort of. only reference I could find. 22:07 hmmmm have you been able to readily reproduce it 22:10 hmmmm unrelated: https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/473af3f6d58dfebb05e4ca221291d441607f6583 22:10 hmmmm PTAL 22:11 VanessaE "readily" is not quite the right word, rather "frequently". Happens a lot on VE-C. 22:11 * VanessaE looks.. 22:13 VanessaE interesting unit test. :) 22:13 VanessaE I'll go ahead and put that in the servers' build and see what it bre--er does. :) 22:14 hmmmm i'll have to spend some time on your server 22:15 hmmmm do i not need to do anything special 22:15 VanessaE nope, just sign on. and try again, and again, and... :) 22:15 hmmmm just keep joining and leaving until I see players 22:15 hmmmm with the bug 22:15 hmmmm okay 22:15 VanessaE VE-Creative is the worst of them, where the flat glitch, 0,0,0 glitch, and so forth happen. VE-Survival is where the serialization error happens most often 22:16 VanessaE OH, you can see the flat glitch for yourself too 22:16 VanessaE press f7 after sign-on 22:16 VanessaE s/for/on/ 22:16 hmmmm what does F7 do? 22:16 VanessaE third-person view 22:16 hmmmm ahh okay 22:16 hmmmm sweet 22:26 hmmmm so describe to me exactly what i'm looking for here? 22:27 hmmmm the green guy shows up sometimes, and other times the player model texture is messed up 22:27 VanessaE that's it. 22:27 hmmmm how much of a % would you estimate each happens on VE-Creative? 22:27 hmmmm of each player viewed 22:27 VanessaE if you look close, "messed up" also correlates to a flat sprite image 22:27 VanessaE um 22:27 VanessaE on a bad day at least 75% of the time the skin will turn up flat or green-guy 22:27 hmmmm in any case I'm guessing that the model parsing fails or something like that and it 'falls back' to the flat guy 22:28 hmmmm and i'm also guessing it's due to file transfer corruption, possibly 22:28 hmmmm or a screwed up parameter serialization 22:28 hmmmm who knows 22:29 VanessaE I would assume param serialization, as it happens to veteran users with full caches (including the model and skin) also 22:29 hmmmm that sounds more like it, seeing as how this happened with nerzhul's change which did not modify the transport layer of the protocol (mostly serialization/deserialization of command-specific data) 22:30 VanessaE hm. just looked at this week's overview map for VE-Vanilla ... weren't we supposed to have v6 snow biomes? 22:30 hmmmm i'm just throwing out nonsensical ideas that might be possible 22:30 hmmmm yes.. they're not enabled by default 22:30 hmmmm do you want your already existing map to start adding them in? 22:31 VanessaE well consider this: VE-Survival gets that huge, sometimes-screenfull serialization error as in that other bug report. maybe the fix you provided will help both? 22:32 VanessaE nah, there's no reason right now to turn snow biomes on. Someone had just asked me if there was a way to get ice, which prompted me to look at the overview in case there were new biomes showing up. 22:33 VanessaE (at least, no reason to turn them on for an existing world. I see nothing wrong with turning them on by default for new worlds though, if the settings and such are stable) 22:35 VanessaE one tool I need to get off my ass and write is a "strip the map down" program, something that'll delete mapblocks if they don't contain anything more than the standard mapgen stuff 22:43 VanessaE um, is this normal? http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-07-11_18-41-32.png 22:43 VanessaE (specifically the distant caves visible between the two loaded sections of map) 22:43 VanessaE (the two separately-loaded sections is fine - I teleported around a bit) 22:53 paramat Vanessa those 'distant caves' are under the far section of terrain, so seem okay 22:54 VanessaE ok. I don't teleport around much, particularly where there'll be unloaded map in my view, so I wasn't sure. 22:55 paramat v6 snow biomes are enabled by default for new worlds 22:55 VanessaE that's what I thought 22:56 VanessaE hmmmm: let me know when you've sufficiently tested your connection to VE-Survival (30001), and I'll deploy that patch. 22:58 paramat game#550 has a new leaves texture and seems ready to go 22:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/550 -- Default: Add savanna nodes, crafting and fuels by paramat 23:00 VanessaE interesting look 23:00 VanessaE you should use my l-system acacia trees :) 23:03 VanessaE oh I see why you didn't. 23:04 paramat it's the 'umbrella thorn' 'acacia tortilis' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vachellia_tortilis 23:04 paramat big pale thons 23:04 paramat *thorns 23:06 paramat and wide flat canopy. l-system is slower 23:07 VanessaE that's the model I was going for also 23:08 VanessaE damn it, why did you have to point to that page. It has good imagery of the tree and now I have to add HDX support :P 23:09 crecca will there be gnus on the savanna? 23:10 paramat lol 23:10 VanessaE haha 23:16 hmmmm vanessae: sure 23:16 hmmmm i'm starting on it now 23:16 VanessaE ok. 23:17 hmmmm so to make sure 23:17 VanessaE hmmmm: one thing that seems to help cause it is if you run several additional client instances in singleplayer, enough to drag down the responsiveness of your machine, while you're focused on the one you're connecting to VE-S with. 23:17 hmmmm PlayerSAO is the object that players are represented with, which is the thing that actually contains m_prop.textures() 23:18 hmmmm m_prop being an ObjectProperties 23:18 hmmmm so you think it's a race condition 23:18 VanessaE could be. at this point I'm utterly clueless 23:19 hmmmm i can't help but wonder if this could be caused by the serialization error 23:20 VanessaE possibly. I say the above because ordinarily I don't see the serialization error -- but the one time I decide to run several client instances at one (for that 11-client stress test for example), is the one time that connecting to VE-S almost guaranteed a serialization error, until cheapie teleported me away from the spawn area out to the middle of nowhere 23:20 VanessaE while others, cheapie included, get those errors pretrry regularly, with only their one client instance 23:20 VanessaE pretty* 23:20 hmmmm does your creative server not have 11 clients on it regularly? 23:21 VanessaE 11 clients refers to 11 instances of minetest on my box, each connected to a different server. 23:21 VanessaE but no it doesn't usually have much traffic these days. most of the time it is idle, or maybe 1 or 2 players. 23:25 hmmmm my guess is that ObjectProperties::deSerialize is failing but the SerializationError is ignored 23:25 hmmmm this code is plain retarded 23:25 VanessaE lol 23:25 hmmmm it's never okay to ignore errors like this 23:27 hmmmm of course it's not even possible to get a serializationerror because nothing throws them 23:27 hmmmm I wonder how much of a shitstorm minetest would have if I started actually throwing serializationerrors on a bad read in readU* and related functions 23:30 VanessaE my guess is it would be a total clusterfuck. 23:30 VanessaE :) 23:36 hmmmm which one is your creative server again? 23:36 hmmmm nevermind used the public serverlist 23:36 VanessaE 30000 23:36 VanessaE ok. 23:37 VanessaE that's the one you're gonna play hell connecting to 23:37 hmmmm llo 23:37 VanessaE at least if it's acting up 23:37 hmmmm "my username is jibberish" 23:37 VanessaE lol 23:37 VanessaE yeah, anything longer than 5 chars is tested against sfan5's anti-gibberish filter 23:37 hmmmm oh ffs 23:37 hmmmm what is not gibberish? according to sfan5? 23:37 VanessaE I got tired of people signing on as dhjeqiupfhiupsehfsa :P 23:38 VanessaE anything that's remotely pronouncable 23:38 VanessaE or you can just use 'hmmmm' as you do here, that should fit. 23:39 hmmmm hmm 23:39 hmmmm 2015-07-11 19:38:53: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.digitalaudioconcepts.com/creative-survival-media/index.mth not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 404) 23:39 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1466 23:40 VanessaE I use the flat-folder method, rather than the filenames-by-hash method (which would supply that ^^^ file) 23:44 hmmmm ermm 23:44 hmmmm i can't see the other instances of my clients 23:48 VanessaE weird. 23:49 VanessaE maybe related though 23:49 VanessaE you sure you didn't get hit by the "player delete" bug? 23:49 VanessaE when it happens, it's usually immediately after connecting 23:49 VanessaE you get like half a dozen mapblocks' worth of world and then, nothing. 23:50 VanessaE I can see your sign-ons though, from IRC anyway 23:56 hmmmm yeah i dunno 23:56 hmmmm this is so screwed up 23:56 hmmmm and laggy to boot 23:56 VanessaE yep 23:56 VanessaE meanwhile VE-V is nice and spritely 23:56 hmmmm they get stuck in this half-emerged state where I see a gray background but only players 23:56 hmmmm and then i can't chat from it 23:56 hmmmm and i don't get others' chats 23:56 VanessaE yep, that's another manifestation of it. 23:57 hmmmm lots of "got message for object blah blah blah that doesn't exist" 23:57 hmmmm and now the players are fucking flashing 23:57 hmmmm what the hell 23:57 hmmmm how can you stand this? 23:57 VanessaE I can't. 23:57 VanessaE I've been bitching about this for a while now 23:57 VanessaE but I don't have the heart to shut the server down 23:58 hmmmm i would quit minetest altogether this is so horrible 23:58 VanessaE I'm stubborn :) 23:59 hmmmm but people would rather focus on adding new cool features instead of making this shit work 23:59 VanessaE mmhmm 23:59 VanessaE THIS is why I called for a multi-week feature freeze 23:59 hmmmm i really am going to get flack for saying this but i thin k