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| 05:14 |
paramat |
lighting bug at y = 63 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2759 which is of course 16 nodes above y = 47 =/ |
| 05:14 |
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| 05:15 |
paramat |
http://i.imgur.com/hI0kMSY.png experimenting with a new type of biome blend https://github.com/paramat/minetest/tree/noiseblend |
| 05:17 |
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| 05:22 |
hmmmm |
much nicer biome blending |
| 05:22 |
hmmmm |
excellent in fact |
| 05:22 |
hmmmm |
btw what mapgen is that? it looks really nice imo |
| 05:23 |
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| 05:24 |
paramat |
mgv7! hehe |
| 05:24 |
Wayward_Tab |
I like it as well |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
you're kidding |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
oh yeah i can see it now that i look at the bottom where the river is |
| 05:24 |
paramat |
with some crazy surface nodes to show up the borders |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
wow mgv7 actually turned out to be really nice |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
i'm surprised |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
still experimenting and tuning the biome blend |
| 05:25 |
hmmmm |
when i was working on it i always thought it looked like dogshit |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
heh |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
the new parameters are in |
| 05:25 |
hmmmm |
yeah your tweaks helped a lot |
| 05:25 |
hmmmm |
it's good to know that it wasn't fundamentally flawed, i guess |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
i also doubled the scale of rivers, they really travel now and are quite epic |
| 05:26 |
paramat |
er spread |
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| 16:53 |
ShadowNinja |
I'll post a news topic about mod security. 'k? |
| 16:53 |
VanessaE |
good idea. |
| 16:53 |
ShadowNinja |
Something like so: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11591735/ |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: you should mention something in there about mods in the "store" not always being up-to-date, that users should defer to the forum posts and their respective repositories. |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE |
also for player_textures, get my fork out of dreambuilder. it's yours with a few minor patches. |
| 16:59 |
VanessaE |
your patch won't work |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE |
line comment added. I think that's the only change needed. |
| 17:03 |
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| 18:16 |
RealBadAngel |
hi guys |
| 18:16 |
est31 |
hi RealBadAngel, hmmmm |
| 18:16 |
RealBadAngel |
any comments on: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-06-04#i_4278019 |
| 18:17 |
est31 |
I like it |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
i think it's fine the way it was |
| 18:18 |
VanessaE |
hey RBA. |
| 18:18 |
RealBadAngel |
and having 16px default normal textures? https://imgrush.com/w5iCWW1HuC-V.png |
| 18:18 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, you like it being so dark? |
| 18:18 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: the problem with the leaves thing is that it'll get un-done next time someone optimizes the textures |
| 18:19 |
VanessaE |
otherwise I agree that they look better your way than with black. |
| 18:19 |
est31 |
why does it get undone? |
| 18:19 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, honestly i dont understand that optimizing a few hundreds of bytes thing |
| 18:19 |
VanessaE |
est31: because image optimizers usually set 100% transparent pixels to black. |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
textures do not have alpha chan, have to be converted to work on them |
| 18:20 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: nor do I, in the case of minetest_game anyways. |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
more like pain in the ass than real gain |
| 18:20 |
VanessaE |
in a larger project, the differences add up |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
we do count gigabytes nowadays, not bytes for christ sake |
| 18:20 |
est31 |
VanessaE, which style of image optimizer does that? I mean then alpha is just simply broken then? |
| 18:21 |
VanessaE |
est31: they all do, afaik. |
| 18:21 |
VanessaE |
and it's not that the alpha is broken |
| 18:21 |
RealBadAngel |
color space is fucked up, its indexed |
| 18:21 |
VanessaE |
it's that #xxxxxx00 pixels get set to #00000000 |
| 18:21 |
RealBadAngel |
so before you can do anything to the image you have to convert it to rgb space |
| 18:21 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: yeah, that's a pain in the ass especially when dealing with texture overlays |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
and all that for saving like 50 bytes on disk |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
while single allocation unit is not less than 4kb |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
sounds like a joke |
| 18:22 |
kahrl |
it's also about how long it takes to connect to a server. |
| 18:23 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: like I said, it adds up in larger projects. I think in homedecor it shaved off around 500k the first time I did it |
| 18:23 |
est31 |
its bad to design a game only for boxes with > 4GB RAM |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
est31 i do have 4gb and im using 256tp with normal |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
so you have shot god's window with that argument |
| 18:24 |
est31 |
hehe |
| 18:24 |
hmmmm |
for what it's worth |
| 18:24 |
hmmmm |
I designed the optimized perlin noise maps with the explicit speed/space tradeoff in mind |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
we are not making 1kb demo where each byte counts :P |
| 18:25 |
RealBadAngel |
in memory those textures are expanded anyways |
| 18:25 |
RealBadAngel |
and about sending them, what is the minimal packet size? |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
but wait a sec, as usual starting topic went wild |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
i was asking about something else |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
<RealBadAngel> and having 16px default normal textures? https://imgrush.com/w5iCWW1HuC-V.png |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
thats 16x16 texture used |
| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
i can mimic that on the fly, but it will be very costly |
| 18:29 |
RealBadAngel |
imho having well hand made normals (such small files!) is better |
| 18:29 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: unknown nodes seem to make minetestmapper veeeeeeery slow (1024x1024: 51,2s instead of 4,9s) |
| 18:30 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: ouch |
| 18:30 |
est31 |
10x increase... |
| 18:30 |
kahrl |
the python or C++ one? |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
c++ |
| 18:31 |
est31 |
is the python one still developed? |
| 18:31 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 18:33 |
RealBadAngel |
<VanessaE> RealBadAngel: like I said, it adds up in larger projects. I think in homedecor it shaved off around 500k the first time I did it -----> but it didnt save any disk space both for server and the client. it didnt saved any used memory too because of the allocation size. what about sending them over net? idk, but propably the same |
| 18:34 |
est31 |
it did save disk space, didnt it? |
| 18:35 |
est31 |
500k |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
if allocation unit is 4kb, 1byte file will occupy the same as 4kb |
| 18:35 |
est31 |
ah |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
your calculations wont change that |
| 18:36 |
est31 |
yes thats right |
| 18:36 |
VanessaE |
between optimizing images and reducing the total number of images in the modpack, close to 1MB saved I think. |
| 18:36 |
VanessaE |
but yeah, the 4k point stands. |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
your gain is purely imagination |
| 18:36 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: i looks like it's spending a lot of time on inserting unknown nodes into the list |
| 18:37 |
sfan5 |
s/i /it / |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
326,445,300 /build/gcc/src/gcc-5-20150519/libstdc++-v3/libsupc++/dyncast.cc:__dynamic_cast [/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.21] |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
298,935,573 ???:__memcmp_sse4_1 [/usr/lib/libc-2.21.so] |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
270,585,286 ???:std::_Rb_tree<std::string, std::string, std::_Identity<std::string>, std::less<std::string>, std::allocator<std::string> >::_M_get_insert_unique_pos(std::string const&) [/tm |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
p/minetestmapper/minetestmapper] |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
no idea how to make that faster |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE |
well it's not critical - mine was a corner-case anyways |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE |
t'is what happens when you throw up to 16'000 unknown nodes at it ;) |
| 18:41 |
kahrl |
sfan5, perhaps use an unordered_map instead |
| 18:41 |
est31 |
unordered_map is only available in c++11 |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: -DUSE_CXX11=1 (unordered_map) makes it better though: 15,8s -> 13,0s |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
damnit kahrl |
| 18:41 |
kahrl |
yeah |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
can you read minds |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
like |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
i was about to type that |
| 18:41 |
kahrl |
:P |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
also we already have that |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
in mapper one should check if (f->tiledef[0].name != "") |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
air, content ignore and unknown wont have the texture |
| 18:43 |
kahrl |
I don't think ContentFeatures are available in the mapper |
| 18:43 |
sfan5 |
guess what it already does |
| 18:44 |
VanessaE |
like I said, it's not really critical. I just threw a large map and an empty colors.txt at it in hopes of getting a list of all nodes used in the map. I don't think too many others are gonna try that ;) |
| 18:44 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway i think mapper wont be needed in the future |
| 18:44 |
RealBadAngel |
minimap does the same realtime |
| 18:44 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: sure it will - for websites/forum pages |
| 18:44 |
sfan5 |
ooh |
| 18:44 |
sfan5 |
way better |
| 18:44 |
RealBadAngel |
we can add just option to save the data |
| 18:45 |
VanessaE |
a realtime 100-odd diameter map doesn't tell you that there's an interesting structure 1000 nodes away |
| 18:45 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: 1024x1024 51,2s -> 36,3s (-DUSE_CXX11=1) |
| 18:45 |
est31 |
yea, but minimap doesnt map the whole world |
| 18:45 |
est31 |
just a small part |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
minimap is using mapblock minimaps cache atm |
| 18:45 |
est31 |
btw, whats missing for that? |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
it could just save the cache |
| 18:45 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: that doesn't help servers. only clients. |
| 18:46 |
kahrl |
you don't want to have to script the client to automatically produce a map of the world when you're a server admin |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
but the code can be applied on the server side too |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
different output client sinde, different servers |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: that's definitely a lot better. so why isn't C++11 used by default anyway? |
| 18:46 |
est31 |
with all the irrlicht deps? |
| 18:47 |
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| 18:47 |
est31 |
celeron55 has found the compromise that c++11 can be used when debian 8 gets released |
| 18:47 |
est31 |
its released now, so we can use it? |
| 18:48 |
RealBadAngel |
doubt that |
| 18:48 |
RealBadAngel |
irrlicht is 1.9 by now and we are still with 1.7 |
| 18:48 |
kahrl |
I thought the decision was to switch to C++11 when Ubuntu 12.04 LTS went out of support |
| 18:49 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: 1.9 is still in nightlies. it isn't "out" yet. |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i know |
| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
but still 1.8 were here ages ago |
| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
i remember arguing bout it like an yr ago |
| 18:50 |
VanessaE |
Irrlicht 1.8.1 released |
| 18:50 |
VanessaE |
November-20-2013 – 9:44 pm |
| 18:50 |
sfan5 |
<RealBadAngel> irrlicht is 1.9 by now and we are still with 1.7 |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
how are we "with" irrlicht 1.7? |
| 18:51 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: because the engine still has to be able to run with 1.7? |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
its a bit ridiculous when each next release of engine and a slight change to the mt game is makin a few weeks older builds not to work |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
but still we do care about libs 2 yrs old |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: is backwards compatibility a bad thing? |
| 18:52 |
sfan5 |
why does the engine have to run with 1.7? |
| 18:52 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: no, so long as it doesn't prevent being able to use newer features where available. |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
sfan5, such "compability" sounds a bit like monty python themed |
| 18:53 |
est31 |
http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-01-29#i_4135244 |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
youre forced to get up to date game |
| 18:53 |
sfan5 |
og |
| 18:53 |
sfan5 |
oh* |
| 18:53 |
sfan5 |
because of ubuntu 12.04? |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
(still talking bout c++11) |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
not bout irrlicht |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
um... |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
dunno there |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
I still use 12.04 |
| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
me too |
| 18:55 |
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| 18:55 |
celeron55 |
everything is at 1.8 by now i'd think |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
...oh, except centos 6, which some people still use |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
even the windows builds use 1.8 |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
(mingw at least) |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
centos LTS isn't getting updated still in years and won't get c++11 |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
it's one of the worst offenders of being able to update things |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, we still have some code from 1.8 ported |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
because we wanted to be compatible with 1.7 |
| 18:57 |
est31 |
12.04 has irrlicht 1.7 http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/libirrlicht-dev |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
ubuntu 12.04 sucks |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
remember when i merged l-system trees? |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
snappy and/or leveldb are broken in 12.04 |
| 18:57 |
celeron55 |
current ubuntu LTS is 14.04; nobody has any excuse to use 12.04 |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
vanessa rainbird:~$ apt-cache search irrlicht |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
libirrlicht1.8 - High performance realtime 3D engine |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
some matrices math was ported back from irr 1.8 at that time |
| 18:58 |
est31 |
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libirrlicht-dev&searchon=names&suite=precise&section=all |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
looks to me like 1.8 is available in 12.04 by default (pool/universe/i/irrlicht/libirrlicht1.8_1.8.1+dfsg1-1_amd64.deb) |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and that was like more than 2 yrs ago |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
est31: wrong search key |
| 18:59 |
est31 |
still not here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=precise&section=all&arch=any&keywords=irrlicht&searchon=names |
| 18:59 |
RealBadAngel |
we are more conservative than pope :P |
| 18:59 |
kahrl |
well, that francis guy is quite progressive for a pope :P |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent seen any commits by him yet ;) |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
est31: idk, but it's not in a third-party repo for me, it's in 'universe'. |
| 19:01 |
est31 |
can you run lsb_release -a ? |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
oh fuck me |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
I'm on 14.04 |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 19:01 |
est31 |
:) |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
I totally forgot that I'd updated :D |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, https://imgrush.com/w5iCWW1HuC-V.png what do you think about havin such default shaders effects? |
| 19:03 |
VanessaE |
one can see the layering effect in that screenshot |
| 19:04 |
VanessaE |
(look at the edge of the brick that's just above the dark block at the right end of the hotbar HUD) |
| 19:05 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: i don't like that |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, http://i.imgur.com/qZ6Wp2G.png this neither? |
| 19:06 |
Krock |
wow, what an eye candy! |
| 19:06 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, that because of parallax and too few iterations, relief mapping doesnt have such flaws |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
well that really just adds noise without adding information; i like plain blocks |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
ive already implemented relief mapping, effects are way nicer than with parallax |
| 19:08 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: how about a screenshot without the "generate normalmaps" /edge-detect feature? showing JUST the parallax maps |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
i would be kind of okay with parallax maps IF there was dynamic lighting; but without dynamic lighting there's no point |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
and IF they were made properly and not just generated from existing textures |
| 19:09 |
est31 |
and about unordered_map, what about making a typedef to map if the compiler doesnt support c++11? |
| 19:09 |
RealBadAngel |
you can already compare hand made ones and autogenerated |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
https://imgrush.com/w5iCWW1HuC-V.png hand made map |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
there's beauty in just blocks with textures; it combines a 3d world with traditional pixel art in a way that doesn't usually happen |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
https://imgrush.com/LCf8h8L6otDY.png autogeneration |
| 19:11 |
sfan5 |
est31: this is what i do in minetestmapper https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper/blob/master/TileGenerator.h#L46-54 |
| 19:12 |
est31 |
hrmm should be done in minetest too |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, as you said world is 3d |
| 19:12 |
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| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
why objects in it have to be plain flat? |
| 19:13 |
est31 |
thats still pixel-like, and also just a setting, doesnt have to be default on |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
https://imgrush.com/hz-gt8FqGPOA.png |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
take a look on HD version of it |
| 19:14 |
RealBadAngel |
with dynamic shadows and lightsource (still at (0,900,0) |
| 19:14 |
RealBadAngel |
waiting to be moved ;) |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:40 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: that said, just how "dynamic" do shadows/lighting need to be? moves with the sun? reacts to other light sources too? |
| 19:40 |
celeron55 |
dunno |
| 19:41 |
celeron55 |
but my point is, anything that you do with the current lighting could be just baked into the textures |
| 19:41 |
celeron55 |
which is why it is pointless |
| 19:41 |
VanessaE |
this is true (to a degree). |
| 19:55 |
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| 21:43 |
paramat |
sfan5 or anyone, any advice on the best way to add a common group to the water buckets as requested by PilzAdam here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/528 ? any comments to add? |
| 21:48 |
paramat |
guess i'll try to add a group field to the registration that is backwards compatible |
| 21:51 |
paramat |
hmmmm i assume it's okay to remove the deprecated ore generation code https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/527 |
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| 23:02 |
ShadowNinja |
~tell RealBadAngel Your non-fancy-tree-leaves tweak and custom normalmaps look great! |
| 23:02 |
ShadowBot |
ShadowNinja: O.K. |
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