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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-05-30

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Time Nick Message
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02:10 hmmmm too many questions, not enough answers :(
02:11 VanessaE sounds about normal for here.
02:26 hmmmm this is such a load of horseshit
02:26 hmmmm i can't even begin to debug anything because LIBGL_DEBUG is broken
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03:08 hmmmm I GOT IT
03:08 hmmmm omg
03:08 hmmmm moral of the story is never link against GTK libraries before linking against libGL
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06:48 paramat game#523
06:49 est31 the bot is down :((((
06:49 paramat wake up bot!
06:50 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/523
06:51 paramat hmmmm and all, as you might remember i had a hard time adding river water nodes to mtgame, so i would appreciate support for this =)
06:52 hmmmm is it just rivers you want to add the turquoise hue to?
06:53 paramat yes, just default:river_water..
06:53 hmmmm hrm
06:54 paramat details and reasons in description
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06:55 hmmmm no i know
06:55 hmmmm i was just thinking of something
06:55 hmmmm I approve of it, +1
06:55 est31 ok next pr
06:55 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/522
06:55 est31 general attitude to this
06:55 est31 I'm neutral
06:55 hmmmm obviously yes
06:55 paramat thanks
06:55 hmmmm trailing whitespace is literally hitler
06:56 hmmmm +1 to 522
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06:56 est31 he has a similar PR for the engine too
06:56 hmmmm hrmm
06:56 hmmmm actually you know what
06:56 hmmmm lets' not merge it yet
06:56 * paramat pounces on nore
06:57 * est31 looks up "pounce, to" in the dictionary
06:57 hmmmm omnibus commits, i would argue, are frowned upon when not necessary because they either just sit there and rot, or they create merge conflicts
06:58 est31 that's been why I am neutral
06:58 hmmmm they should be done one file at a time or not at all..
06:58 hmmmm and they shouldn't interfere with other PRs
06:58 hmmmm but there shouldn't be this many PRs to begin with
06:58 hmmmm tomorrow's a saturday, do you guys want to have a PR grooming session?
06:58 paramat hi nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/523
06:58 est31 hehe for me its 9 AM saturday...
06:59 hmmmm ahh
06:59 hmmmm well I'll be around all day tomorrow
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07:00 hmmmm in my opinion, we should start at the very back of the queue
07:01 hmmmm not only will they be easier to decide on, but it's... much more fair
07:01 est31 good idea
07:01 nore hi paramat
07:01 paramat O/
07:02 nore hmmmm: ok
07:02 hmmmm with any luck we'll be able to get through a page of PRs.  which is roughly 25 or so
07:02 hmmmm nore: ??
07:02 nore for pr session
07:02 hmmmm yea
07:02 nore (just what time precisely?)
07:02 paramat nore also this https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/520 can push it for you if you want
07:02 hmmmm i have no idea
07:02 hmmmm everybody here is in a different time zone
07:02 paramat i'll join channel when i wake up later
07:02 hmmmm it's a good time for est, for example, but it's 3 AM for me
07:03 hmmmm and paramat is like 8 AM iirc
07:03 paramat yes 8am sat but it's still fri night for me =)
07:03 nore for me it is right now 9 AM, and I won't have time until 17 PM today :(
07:03 Calinou those are my PRs: https://github.com/minetest/​minetest_game/pulls/Calinou
07:03 nore just 12 hour now
07:03 hmmmm ahh
07:04 hmmmm yea no problem
07:04 Calinou it looks like only https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/518 is worth merging, judging by comments
07:04 hmmmm minetest_game PRs are more difficult because they're mostly preferences
07:04 hmmmm i think we need a handful of people in charge of minetest_game who have an actual direction in mind
07:05 hmmmm and care about it :)
07:06 hmmmm hmmmmmmm... Calinou, would you like to be a minetest_game developer?
07:06 OldCoder Isn't Carbone a _game fork?
07:07 hmmmm also, I thought Nore was a committer, guess not
07:07 hmmmm no idea what Carbone is
07:07 nore hmmmm: I am
07:07 hmmmm you're novatux?
07:07 nore yep
07:07 hmmmm ahh okay
07:07 OldCoder He already is a _game developer, hmmmm; he forked minetest_game.
07:07 hmmmm I have no idea man
07:07 OldCoder Carbone is a minetest_game variation; I use it myself. It is fine; just filling in the gap.
07:08 hmmmm do the people in charge of minetest_game want minetest_game to go in the Carbone direction?
07:08 OldCoder I doubt it
07:08 OldCoder Some optimizations, yes
07:08 OldCoder But he is developing a somewhat different _game
07:08 OldCoder Faster, which is positive, but different style
07:09 hmmmm i personally feel that minetest_game should stay somewhat conservative because it is the default bundled game
07:09 OldCoder I would agree
07:09 hmmmm i'm somewhat disappointed nobody ever packaged different games with minetest distributions though
07:09 OldCoder I use Carbone because it is said to be somewhat server friendly
07:09 OldCoder I have
07:09 OldCoder I rather like
07:09 hmmmm well
07:09 OldCoder the idea of a basic default package
07:09 est31 some people do package
07:10 OldCoder and a comprehensive collection
07:10 OldCoder Then people can choose
07:10 hmmmm i think there needs to be a variety of game types
07:10 est31 I think that would be a good idea
07:10 hmmmm minetest_game is the basic minecraft-like
07:10 OldCoder Vanessa's Dreambuilder for example is the upscale version
07:10 est31 without extras like mobs
07:10 OldCoder Yes; basic
07:10 OldCoder Then larger collections with different flavors
07:10 OldCoder Or even different goals
07:11 OldCoder Hungry Games comes to mind as a candidate for the PVP _game
07:11 nore well, what we need it really at least more default games
07:11 hmmmm are there any totally different genres
07:11 hmmmm like any RPGs?
07:11 hmmmm or how about platformers?
07:11 OldCoder Yes
07:11 OldCoder One is very different
07:11 hmmmm some of those too
07:11 OldCoder Totally unique approach
07:11 hmmmm celeron had a dungeon game
07:11 hmmmm throw that on
07:11 OldCoder Taoki and I will make Ghostworld
07:11 hmmmm s/on/in/
07:11 hmmmm strategy games even
07:11 OldCoder Entire play is different
07:12 hmmmm we want to show people that this really isn't just some minecraft clone
07:12 OldCoder There is no distinction between players and mobs; players possess animals or people
07:12 OldCoder Until death
07:12 hmmmm need to display the flexibility we claim minetest has
07:12 hmmmm making it better
07:12 OldCoder I will ask Taoki to stop by sometime. His ghostworld, Vanessa's Dreambuilder, Hungry Games, basic, Moontest
07:12 OldCoder These are quite a range
07:13 hmmmm I thought moontest was an RBA game
07:13 OldCoder And all can be packaged easily as one download
07:13 OldCoder Hm? No...
07:13 hmmmm hmm
07:13 OldCoder It was started by Amaz
07:13 OldCoder and a kid; we hope to make it Solartest
07:13 OldCoder Where you can actually fly to all the planets
07:13 OldCoder With a special mapgen
07:13 OldCoder That puts Venus, Mars, Earth at different levels
07:13 nore maybe Moontest would benefit from VAE (adding some kind of ship :))
07:13 OldCoder We have UFOs
07:14 OldCoder Not ready for general use; I am waiting for Windhero (sp?)
07:14 OldCoder to finish classes and work on the mapgen
07:14 OldCoder But this will be quite unique. You will be able to physically fly
07:14 paramat i think moontest was partially forked from my moonrealm mod
07:14 OldCoder I believe it was
07:14 nore anyway, some diversity would be good
07:14 OldCoder More than partially; you would need to ask Amaz
07:15 OldCoder Proposal: default _game (basic), Vanessa Dreamworld, Hungry Games (my variation or Gunship Penguin's), Moontest (with other worlds added)
07:15 paramat it's been developed a lot though
07:15 OldCoder And Taoki Ghostworld
07:15 OldCoder paramat, moonrealm?
07:15 paramat yes
07:15 OldCoder If you can add provisions for other worlds, I will be delighted to rest
07:15 OldCoder Imagine the fun
07:16 OldCoder Different skybox for each world, physical travel between them
07:16 OldCoder ^ Not a bad concept
07:16 paramat i'd love to, i have several lifetimes of ideas for MT
07:16 OldCoder Let us PM sometime
07:16 OldCoder Taoki's idea is the most original by far; he will explain it in due course
07:16 paramat sure
07:17 OldCoder Everybody is a phantom and you must possess NPCs
07:18 paramat oh sorry, i don't mean moonrealm has been devved a lot, i mean moontest has. moonrealm needs my attention, so much potential..
07:20 OldCoder paramat, either way. We will see what works. If Windhero does not return, I can attempt to learn mapgen and will ask you about this.
07:20 paramat stacked planet realms, each with differing gravity, skyboxes and atmosphere
07:20 OldCoder Exactly ^
07:21 OldCoder And travel by flight as well as travelnet between them!
07:21 paramat yes
07:21 OldCoder This is important; it will open up all sorts of possibilities
07:21 * OldCoder imagines little starships, Tie Fighters, etc. Over Time. Need not to bite off too much to chew.
07:21 OldCoder As Lego grew
07:21 OldCoder Lego, the *original* voxel world
07:22 OldCoder So can this one
07:22 paramat i get overwhelmed by the potential of MT
07:22 * paramat loves LEGO
07:22 OldCoder Then it is simple
07:22 OldCoder One step at a time
07:22 OldCoder We need lego support BTW
07:22 OldCoder Though we must call it something else
07:23 OldCoder hmmmm, excuse any interruption. Wanted to say that a collection of novel _games makes perfect sense.
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07:25 OldCoder paramat, I haven't Githubbed Moontest yet. It is rather different now than Amaz's copy. I'd like to post or email you the current sources sometime.
07:26 paramat okay, let's arrange this later
07:27 paramat nore, thanks for the comments, i'll push the sandstone brick texture later, assuming that's okay to do
07:28 paramat (if no-one else does it first)
07:28 nore ok :)
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07:49 Calinou <+hmmmm> hmmmmmmm... Calinou, would you like to be a minetest_game developer?
07:49 Calinou well, why not
07:49 Calinou <+hmmmm> no idea what Carbone is
07:50 Calinou it's a (no longer actively maintained) subgame by me
07:50 Calinou it tweaked a minetest_game (based on 0.4.9) a lot, back when it was really lacking
07:50 Calinou I now consider minetest_game to be decent, so I don't maintain it much
07:51 Calinou <+est31> without extras like mobs
07:51 Calinou we should have stock mobs somewhen.
07:51 Calinou something basic, like we had in 0.3.1
07:52 Calinou it was enough to scare people and have something to make food of
07:52 Calinou we don't need more than 4-5 mobs for now
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13:02 Krock No longer red screen caused by the environment when damage is disabled: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2740
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13:55 rubenwardy http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-05-30#i_4270443
13:55 rubenwardy hmmmm
13:55 rubenwardy Jump is probably the closest to a platformer
13:55 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9326
13:55 rubenwardy Well, not really
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15:28 daswort Was there a change in dependencies needed to compile MT? I installed the dependencies required, but after the recent git sync it failes.
15:28 daswort http://paste.ubuntu.com/11454597/
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15:40 sfan5 damnit est
15:40 sfan5 daswort: install gmp in the meantimer
15:40 sfan5 --r
15:40 sfan5 keyboard pls
15:46 sfan5 wait
15:47 sfan5 daswort: that shouldn't happen, minetest should only try to use gmp when it's installed
15:48 daswort Which one? libgmp10-dev or libgmp3-dev
15:48 sfan5 no idea
15:49 daswort libgmp10-dev  is a virtual package anyway.
15:49 jin_xi or you could edit src/util/srp.cpp
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15:53 hmmmm instead of working around the symptom, maybe we should figure out why USE_SYSTEM_GMP is set when it shouldn't be
15:53 hmmmm daswort, you're not compiling for android, are you?
15:55 daswort Nope amd64. hmmmm
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15:58 daswort So with gmp it does that. But the is more fun to have with failing builds! http://paste.ubuntu.com/11455040/
15:59 hmmmm session manager?
15:59 hmmmm do you not have libsm6?
16:00 daswort ls /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSM.so.6*
16:01 daswort d
16:01 daswort /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSM.so.6@  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSM.so.6.0.1
16:01 daswort So it exists
16:01 daswort Session Manager is GDM. hmmmm
16:02 hmmmm i have no idea why this is required for minetest, and why it's failing
16:02 hmmmm how did you call cmake?
16:02 hmmmm rather, execute cmake
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16:03 daswort cd ~/.minetest-dev &&  time cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DENABLE_GETTEXT=1 && time make -j2
16:04 hmmmm try make VERBOSE=1
16:04 hmmmm and then paste the output
16:08 daswort nothing enlightening, or did i pass the option in a wrong way? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11455231/ hmmmm
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16:09 hmmmm no no, without any -
16:09 hmmmm just VERBOSE=1
16:09 hmmmm and add that to make's arguments, not cmake
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16:13 hmmmm actually it seems like libSM gets included along with irrlicht
16:13 hmmmm makes sense, I suppose...
16:13 daswort still in the dark. hmmmm  http://paste.ubuntu.com/11455359/
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16:15 daswort But i didn't need it a few days ago with the same Debian Version but XFCE instead of GNOME.
16:15 hmmmm well the reason why it's saying there's no rule to make the target is because it really doesn't have a rule for it
16:15 daswort And Debian does not have any fancy wayland stuff and unpriviledged Xorg yet.
16:15 hmmmm it only attempts to make the target if the target did not exist
16:16 hmmmm check the permissions on those directories
16:16 hmmmm both the symlink and the actual file
16:17 daswort On libSM? the link: lrwxrwxrwx | the file: -rw-r--r--
16:17 hmmmm oh waita  minute
16:17 hmmmm do you have libSM.so
16:17 hmmmm not libSM.so.6
16:18 daswort Oh, no please not again. Indeed there is no file without number suffix.
16:18 hmmmm well that's the immediate problem
16:18 hmmmm you can fix that and build minetest by creating a symlink to .so.6, but that's not really solving anything
16:19 hmmmm is it possible that you're missing a couple -dev packages?
16:20 daswort Yeah, linking works, but then comes libICE over the hill and then the next.
16:20 daswort hmmmm, it is a new system so it is possible. Will check.
16:21 hmmmm try apt-get build-dep mana
16:21 hmmmm erm
16:21 hmmmm mesa
16:21 hmmmm rather no, libgl1-mesa-dev
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16:22 rubenwardy build-essentials ?
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16:25 daswort libgl1-mesa-dev is installed. Everything else from the wiki. Except for libjpeg, but that was renamed some time ago (in jessie). jpeg turbo dev is installed.
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16:26 daswort build-essential is therefore also installed.
16:31 daswort So i installed the dependencies for mesa and linked also libICE and it appears to compile without errors.
16:31 hmmmm sweet
16:31 hmmmm now just hopefully it won't crash when you start it up
16:32 daswort Compile from last week did often, directly after starting. But never while gameplay. :)
16:33 hmmmm i'm joking btw, it shouldn't crash
16:34 daswort But it did.
16:36 daswort But it were the fastest crashes i ever experienced, so there is that. :P
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16:41 daswort Did make clean && make and it works great. A wall of wonderful green text. Thank you very much hmmmm
16:41 hmmmm np
16:41 hmmmm sorry that minetest is like a broken car
16:42 hmmmm i'm not in charge of the debian packaging and i have no idea who is, so it's missing a dependency and i can't really do anything about it
16:47 daswort I didn't bother to try the debian Package.
16:48 daswort But i really like that there are no compiling warnings like in MOST games.
16:52 Calinou -Wnone fixes all
16:56 daswort Oh :(
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16:59 TenPlus1 hi folks
16:59 TenPlus1 ran a gdb session on Xanadu server and it crashed, we have an output
17:03 hmmmm the out of memory crash?
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17:04 TenPlus1 std::bad_alloc error crash, we got this:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2661  (LAST POST)
17:04 hmmmm maybe it would be better if you were able to run massif
17:04 TenPlus1 massif ?
17:05 hmmmm yes, check it out: valgrind --tool=massif
17:07 TenPlus1 gotta find new time to bring server down and run that, we just finished gdb instance
17:07 TenPlus1 server is back up and running normally again
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17:51 TenPlus1 hmmmm, valgrind runs far too slowly on server to be usable for players to crash server
18:04 hmmmm TenPlus1, how slowly valgrind runs highly depends on which tool you are using
18:04 hmmmm are you sure you're using massif?
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18:06 TenPlus1 yes hmmm... typed the command u showed me and server runs sooo slow I cant do anything on it let alone have players join
18:14 hmmmm hmm
18:15 TenPlus1 least gdb caught that one error and filename it was in: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2661
18:15 hmmmm yeah
18:15 hmmmm that output is literally useless though
18:16 TenPlus1 was all it gave me...
18:16 TenPlus1 was expecting a huge error report
18:16 hmmmm maybe run it under gdb again, and then when it crashes, don't just copy the output and close it
18:16 hmmmm instead leave it open and then I'll have you enter in some commands
18:17 TenPlus1 will do that next time owner is aroun
18:17 TenPlus1 d
18:17 hmmmm great
18:24 celeron55 probably setting up a breakpoint to catch the segfault earlier could work, altough sometimes things still just become a horrible mess
18:24 TenPlus1 hmmmm,  which commands shoudl I enter, so I know
18:25 celeron55 running something like "bt __cxa_throw" in gdb before "run" could work
18:25 hmmmm TenPlus1, I'm really not sure right now
18:25 celeron55 that would catch any exception before they are handled
18:25 hmmmm celeron, the exception being thrown isn't the issue
18:25 celeron55 but you'll have to call "continue" every time an exception happens that you don't care about
18:25 celeron55 hmmmm: i know
18:26 hmmmm so then why bother saying that
18:26 TenPlus1 server is overseas and owner isnt tech savvy so ti would be difficult to get an output
18:26 celeron55 hmmmm: by catching it earlier than the abort of the program, you might end up with a better backtrace
18:26 hmmmm this can be done in real-time thanks to the internet
18:26 celeron55 actually i guess the backtrace might have been there
18:27 hmmmm the backtrace is useless
18:27 celeron55 what would you be looking for?
18:27 hmmmm i want to take a look at some random pages allocated in the application and try to guess what the contents might be
18:27 hmmmm I've done this before, but it was a lot easier to find the source of the leak because the beginning of every page looked like a PE file :)
18:28 celeron55 the thing is, this isn't a leak, right?
18:28 hmmmm this is definitely a leak
18:28 TenPlus1 at times the server will crash every few minutes and we think it's a map error causing problems...
18:28 celeron55 ok if it is, then your approach is the best one
18:28 TenPlus1 but during gdb test we had 8 players and it wouldnt vcrash for a while... 8 mins later it vrashed
18:29 hmmmm what would be the best approach would be to use massif but it's too slow
18:29 celeron55 if it isn't, then the backtrace would be where to first look for things
18:29 hmmmm so i have to do this instead
18:29 hmmmm the first backtrace is literally anywhere memory attempts to be allocated
18:29 hmmmm memory gets allocated constantly
18:29 hmmmm if we pick random pages to look at, though, there's a high likelyhood it's going to contain leaked memory
18:30 TenPlus1 still think problem lies in the map... loading a specific area causes std::bad_alloc to happen... it's happened to often in specific areas
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18:30 celeron55 (well if you get an std::bad_alloc while all memory isn't actually being consumed, it's usually some stupid bug causing one huge allocated size that nevertheless would be very hard to find otherwise)
18:31 TenPlus1 ah
18:31 celeron55 i've run into a bunch of those too; it's stupid to leave that out as being too stupid to happen
18:32 celeron55 i'm going to assume something like that is happening until i see a backtrace with the size being allocated shown that proves otherwise
18:33 hmmmm i've seen the backtrace before
18:33 hmmmm it's usually totally random
18:34 celeron55 if you have, then go ahead with assuming it's a leak
18:34 TenPlus1 the fact that many servers are running fine using 0.4.12, but when the map gets to a certain size the crashing begins... I dont get it
18:34 TenPlus1 was running great, then the map got over 50gb in size...
18:36 celeron55 or actually
18:37 celeron55 don't assume it's a leak in the valgrind memcheck meaning of the word
18:37 celeron55 it could simply be memory that isn't leaked but is not being freed at that moment because it's simply kept around for future use
18:37 hmmmm yea that's why i suggested massif
18:37 hmmmm massif is usually more useful than memcheck...
18:37 TenPlus1 and running the server using massif is so slow it's unusable
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18:58 TenPlus1 bye all
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20:30 est31 pushing in 5 minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​b4dfaa3a7a9251cdb0f0867fc29240c808268b1b
20:30 est31 (non functional part of Krock's PR)
20:30 est31 also not related
20:35 est31 pushed
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21:06 jin_xi so its probably not related, but here goes anyway. we're leaking an u32 for every expiring particle spawner. spawner ids are only removed for deleted ones, expiration is not handled.
21:07 est31 ok
21:08 est31 when you make a simple enough PR, I'll merge it right away
21:08 jin_xi pr made long time ago, not sure if best/proper way to handle. #2602
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