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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-05-28

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Time Nick Message
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01:38 hmmmmmm something for RBA to take a look at is irr::SIrrlichtCreationParam​eters::DriverMultithreaded
01:38 hmmmmmm also he didn't make map access thread safe at all.  which is really the largest problem here.
01:39 hmmmmmm this is getting frustrating... it'd be quicker for me to fix RBA's code than to tell RBA each and every instance of where multithreaded safety is required
01:41 VanessaE I already gave him something else to fight with ahead of that :)
01:41 VanessaE (another part of minimap)
01:42 hmmmmmm also the texture for the round minimap doesn't have smoothed edges
01:42 hmmmmmm they need to be alpha antialiased
01:42 VanessaE that's because of the mask method he was using
01:43 hmmmmmm hmm
01:43 VanessaE (I guess he isn't using that same method now)
01:43 hmmmmmm and not to mention all the gajillion instances of sloppy code style
01:43 hmmmmmm I'm really not that strict about code style.  but please don't make it look like a 5 year old wrote it
01:44 hmmmmmm ugh
01:44 hmmmmmm again, another thing that would be quicker if i just fixed it myself
01:44 * VanessaE takes away two of hmmmmmm's m's
01:44 VanessaE to be fair though,
01:44 hmmmmmm that means my internet dropped twice
01:44 VanessaE it has been said here on more than one occasion that what you propose should never be done.
01:44 VanessaE ("commit now, fix later")
01:45 hmmmmmm yeah
01:45 hmmmmmm that shouldn't be done..
01:45 hmmmmmm maybe if I add a pull request to his own branch
01:46 VanessaE I'm not against the practice myself - I think it's better to push good, working code into mainline and then work on improving it later, simply because not doing so has a tendency to cause that good code to get lost
01:46 hmmmmmm anyway about the multithreaded stuff, maybe it'd be a good idea to redesign what the minimap thread actually does...
01:46 VanessaE (and then the code never gets revived and added)
01:46 hmmmmmm alright
01:47 hmmmmmm the slow part about the minimap is not creating textures or uploading them or fetching map
01:47 hmmmmmm the slow part is doing all the ground level probes
01:47 VanessaE right
01:47 VanessaE which makes me wonder - I thought the engine already HAD a heightmap
01:48 hmmmmmm so strip out all the rest of the irrlicht crud, add in an actual synchronization method,
01:48 hmmmmmm hm
01:48 hmmmmmm I doubt it
01:48 hmmmmmm that is a very interesting concept though, if it did exist
01:49 hmmmmmm even if it did have that it wouldn't be useful
01:49 hmmmmmm each mapblock has its own mesh
01:49 VanessaE yeah
01:49 hmmmmmm so you'd need to probe each mapblock
01:49 hmmmmmm and then check the mapblock mesh's height or something
01:50 hmmmmmm when each mapblock is only 16 high it's probably a lot faster to just check the node data itself
01:50 hmmmmmm that's at most 16 in-order accesses to some array, vs. some operation of unknown speed
01:52 hmmmmmm actually, I wonder if map access is something we ought to be concerned about
01:52 hmmmmmm there's a lot of copying going on
01:54 hmmmmmm maybe it won't matter as much after the first render, if we cache things intelligently
01:57 zat what did happen to the ability of specifying groups for place_on options of biomes?
01:58 hmmmmmm ???
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02:59 zat hmmmmmm: I'll better ask paramat for I asked him to introduce that feature
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03:20 paramat i never added the feature because there was more important stuff to do =)
03:22 paramat and place_on already accepts a table, although i understand that's not quite as useful as groups
03:28 hmmmmmm place_on for decorations?
03:28 hmmmmmm ermm... it really really should do that already
03:28 hmmmmmm if it doesn't, then it's either a bug or a massive oversight
03:29 hmmmmmm two months ago or so i went on this rampage to clean up mapgen-related-thing interfaces, especially making them orthogonal, i.e. where one piece of syntax works, it'd work everywhere
03:31 paramat aha cool, i was just thinking perhaps it does that already
03:33 hmmmmmm it does
03:33 paramat ^ zat
03:34 hmmmmmm it might be a bug then
03:34 hmmmmmm although I don't see how... groups would need to be broken everywhere
03:39 hmmmmmm hmm, I think I should randomly generate mountains with no grass like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikip​edia/commons/5/57/Sorapis_055.jpg
03:39 VanessaE might look interesting
03:39 hmmmmmm hehe
03:40 hmmmmmm this will be possible using nothing hard coded through the new biome system
03:40 hmmmmmm if i get it working correctly
03:46 paramat nice
03:47 paramat how much overgen will you need for variance calculation?
03:47 hmmmmmm it depends on the radius
03:48 hmmmmmm I think in the common use case the radius will be like 5 or something
03:49 hmmmmmm ooh.. you know what, I don't just need to overgen noise, i need to overgen *terrain*
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04:09 paramat yes a little terrain overgen is extremely useful, especially vertical overgen
04:16 hmmmmmm do you overgen vertically or is that just noise?
04:17 paramat everything, terrain and biome nodes
04:17 paramat but in mgv5/v7 it's only base terrain 1 up 1 down
04:18 hmmmmmm oh you remember the idea about breaking chunk generation up into several stages?
04:18 hmmmmmm i finally recall what needed to be done
04:18 paramat yes to enable blur
04:18 hmmmmmm see the conversation in #minetest
04:18 paramat yep reading
04:18 hmmmmmm the basic jist is
04:20 hmmmmmm requested chunk in the emerge queue isn't generated?  select stage 1 (cave and dungeon only) generation, enqueue stage 1 generation for all of its 26 cubic chunk neighbors as well
04:21 hmmmmmm requested chunk in the emerge queue already has stage 1 generation completed that weren't added by the emergethread internally?  that means its neighbors must have stage 1 completed as well, continue onto stage 2 generation
04:21 hmmmmmm then after stage 2 generation, call on_generated and set the mapblock as not sent
04:25 paramat okay will reread both channels and think on this
04:31 paramat interesting i think im getting it, slowly :)
04:31 hmmmmmm like i said though
04:31 hmmmmmm i'm fearing performance problems and circular dependencies
04:31 hmmmmmm it might be a FUBAR concept altogether
04:32 hmmmmmm maybe instead of explicitly adding the dependencies, a stage 2 block will refuse to generate unless all neighbors satisfy the stage 1 dependency
04:32 hmmmmmm yeah that's a better simplification
04:32 hmmmmmm simpler to code too
04:33 paramat nice idea, worth trying
04:39 hmmmmmm oh also
04:39 hmmmmmm there can be a stage 3 mapgen as well
04:39 hmmmmmm and again, here each of the neighbors need to be at least stage 2
04:40 hmmmmmm stage 3 mapgen is where discrete structures that depend upon generated terrain are placed, i.e. all your trees, uh.. pyramids, etc.
04:40 hmmmmmm we'll call that the decoration stage
04:41 paramat ah like having overgen, anything that needs to know what is in the next mapchunk
04:44 hmmmmmm don't mean to go too wild here but what if stage 3 was biome placement, and then stage 4 was decoration placement
04:44 hmmmmmm huehuehue
04:44 hmmmmmm you can eliminate overgen
04:56 paramat 3 stages makes sense: cave/dungeon, base terrain, next-gen biome system (since you need overgen for that)
05:06 hmmmmmm you're right, stage 4 can be combined with stage 3
05:07 hmmmmmm this sounds incredible though
05:07 hmmmmmm i want to try this out first and see if i can't avoid overgenerating in the same chunk
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06:26 RealBadAngel hmmmmmm, i told you that moving vmanip fill to main thread is not done yet
06:29 RealBadAngel about using driver, i can remove use of it from thread too
06:30 RealBadAngel in fact i can leave in thread only scanning
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06:32 RealBadAngel about using mesh updates: i also had that idea, but  thats a bit problematic. scan range can end in the middle of the block
06:32 RealBadAngel so data calculated for 16 nodes high column wont be useable in this case
06:39 RealBadAngel if we were using mapblock updates for minimap we can have smooth horizontal movement and jumpin by 16 nodes vertical
06:39 RealBadAngel that will feel and look awful
06:40 RealBadAngel thats why i dropped the idea
06:41 RealBadAngel on textures: mask antialiased? mask is for cutting map area we need. frame is displayed as overlay and separate image
06:42 RealBadAngel have to be, minimap and frame irrlicht  materials are different (because of shaders)
06:44 RealBadAngel and what here looks like child's code? :P
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07:16 hmmmmmm yes, leave the thread for scanning only
07:17 hmmmmmm i'm not sure if it's the mask or the frame, vanessa said you took care of it already, i was just saying from what i've seen in a screen shot
07:18 hmmmmmm you have missing indentations everywhere btw, inconsistencies abundant, etc.
07:18 hmmmmmm go over it and fix those things, pleaase
07:18 hmmmmmm check out http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines if you're feeling adventurous
07:22 technomancy is there a good reformatter for lua?
07:25 RealBadAngel hmmmmmm, this is still playground and not yet a pr, i will make it look ok for sure
07:26 hmmmmmm oh didn't realize that
07:26 hmmmmmm sorry
07:26 RealBadAngel im rewriting whole parts of it each day, hard to take care of style during it
07:27 hmmmmmm doesn't your editor have auto-indentation?
07:27 RealBadAngel does, but works sometimes pretty weird
07:27 hmmmmmm how are you able to read your own code when you go to modify it
07:28 hmmmmmm don't you get confused when you have code like:
07:28 hmmmmmm for (foobar ... ) {
07:28 hmmmmmm doThing();
07:28 hmmmmmm do_other_thing();
07:28 hmmmmmm return blah;
07:28 hmmmmmm }
07:29 RealBadAngel nah, thats not a problem for me
07:31 RealBadAngel after some thinkin im going to try again that idea with mapblock mesh updates
07:31 RealBadAngel maybe it wont feel so bad
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07:32 cd2 heyo
07:34 RealBadAngel thx to that full block scan (16*16*16) nodes will be done just on mablock change
07:35 RealBadAngel and in scanner number of scans will be n/16
07:35 RealBadAngel and thats pretty big difference
07:37 RealBadAngel hmmmmmm, but apart from all those technical details, have you tried it ingame?
07:38 hmmmmmm no
07:39 RealBadAngel oh cmon, give it a try :)
07:39 hmmmmmm I can see what it does from the screenshots
07:42 RealBadAngel there are few things dynamic in it, you cant see that on screenshots
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10:24 Megaf gm
10:24 Megaf hm
10:25 Megaf I just tried to compile the latest git for my server and make failed
10:25 Megaf 990a965
10:25 Calinou paste of error message?
10:26 Megaf ^\make[2]: *** Deleting file `src/CMakeFiles/minetestserver.dir/​network/serverpackethandler.cpp.o'
10:26 Megaf make[2]: *** wait: No child processes.  Stop.
10:26 Megaf make[1]: *** [src/CMakeFiles/minetestserver.dir/all] Error 2
10:26 Megaf Quit
10:26 Megaf cmake complained it couldnt find Irrlicht
10:26 Megaf I will update my irrlicht and try again
10:30 Megaf Calinou: I think updating my Irrlicht worked
10:31 Megaf That's weird, spelially because I'm using the dev branch of Irrlich
10:31 Megaf Irrlicht*
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10:32 Megaf Updated to revision 5105
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10:41 Megaf Anyway, working now
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14:31 est31 can sb have a look at #2722 ?
14:31 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2722
14:31 est31 needs second +1
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14:35 RealBadAngel est31, minimap is not yet ready, still some things to code. but its ready to test its funcionality
14:36 est31 I've already tested it, will test it again
14:36 Zeno` Why does return 3?
14:36 est31 ?
14:36 Zeno` err l_get_sky
14:36 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2722/f​iles#diff-9444313da8be4290e9304a4b1faed804R1478
14:37 Zeno` nvm
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14:39 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2722/​files#diff-9444313da8be4290e9304a4b1faed804R34
14:39 Zeno` ^-- I don't like that
14:39 Zeno` But I guess that was already there?
14:40 est31 yes
14:40 Zeno` crappiest function-like macro I've seen in ages
14:40 Zeno` somebody should change it one day :)
14:40 est31 eg here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/b785577f03d00c83236782876def4c900edb​ba4e/src/script/lua_api/l_env.cpp#L38
14:40 Zeno` it's not even function-like... it's just crap
14:41 Zeno` heh
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14:42 Zeno` anyway the PR looks good to me
14:43 est31 fine, it can be pushed then
14:43 Zeno` *nod*
14:44 est31 so I do it?
14:45 Zeno` yeah, I agree so sure
14:46 est31 ("I" as in "I" vs "you")
14:46 est31 ok then
14:46 Zeno` I, we, them, us
14:46 Zeno` heh
14:46 VanessaE split the difference.  zeno pushes half the code, est31 the other half :)
14:47 Zeno` umm
14:47 est31 I push the object tree, zeno the commit message :p
14:47 * Zeno` passes lol
14:47 VanessaE lol
14:50 Zeno` wait!
14:50 Zeno` I changed my mind
14:50 Zeno` lol, j/k
14:52 est31 this is a good speed for PRs to get merged
14:53 est31 ofc, the author also fixes the issues you point out very fast
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14:58 celeron55 this might be of interest: https://hub.github.com/
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16:06 ElectronLibre RealBadAngel, currently, your minimap3 branche causes a crash during minetestserver's make recipe : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11414075/ (fetched about 2 hours ago).
16:07 sfan5 thats not a crash
16:07 sfan5 that a compile error
16:08 ElectronLibre Oops, sorry. I'm too used to mod crashes. Well, in either way, I can't get `minetestserver` with your branch.
16:08 RealBadAngel ElectronLibre, i will update the branch in about half an hour
16:08 RealBadAngel im preparing now update
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17:05 zat hmmmm: that orthogonality thing sounds right
17:06 zat how do I get that feature in though? I had a patch that seemed fine for an older mapgen.cpp version, but seems like things have changed over there.
17:08 hmmmm i don't get what you mean
17:08 hmmmm are you saying that using a group in on_place does not work as of the most up-to-date minetest version?
17:09 zat hmmmm: looks like it is not, should it already?
17:10 hmmmm yes, it should
17:10 hmmmm if it does not work that's a bug
17:11 hmmmm before you file a bug report, make sure you're using the correct group name among other things
17:12 zat hmmmm: I am checking
17:16 zat I get a bunch of 2015-05-28 14:15:05: ERROR[main]: get_biome_list: failed to load biome (index 6)
17:16 zat 2015-05-28 14:15:05: ERROR[main]: register_decoration: couldn't get all biomes
17:18 hmmmm there was some register_decoration with a big list of biomes
17:18 hmmmm and the 6th biome wasn't valid
17:23 zat hmmmm: where do I find the most up to date documentation on registering biomes? neither lua_api.txt or http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_biome seem up to date.
17:23 hmmmm biomes are an undocumented feature of minetest
17:24 hmmmm you can use it if you'd like, but it's not officially supported
17:24 zat I will be reading the source then
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17:25 zat but, who to ask for functionality? I might document it from that.
17:25 hmmmm there are other people who wrote unofficial documentation for register_biome()
17:25 hmmmm ask around on #minetest
17:26 zat hmmmm: I ask you there
17:26 hmmmm i don't write an official one because the biome system is not final at all
17:27 hmmmm it's an experimental feature, and the interface is especially volatile
17:27 hmmmm once something is added to lua_api.txt, it becomes a part of the minetest api where reverse compatibility is guaranteed
17:28 zat hmmmm: I thank that my approach might help to arrive to a final concept for the biomes API but I need it working first.
17:28 hmmmm it's not just an api
17:28 hmmmm the entire way biomes are calculated is subject to change
17:29 zat but its api should be abstract enough to not be affected
17:29 zat may I show you my code somewhere
17:30 hmmmm instead of asking to ask, just ask
17:30 zat I will pastebin
17:32 zat http://pastebin.com/e97u1z5t
17:32 zat http://pastebin.com/fitVFWS0
17:32 zat the idea is pretty self explanatory.
17:34 hmmmm i'm not quite sure what's going on here
17:35 hmmmm it seems to me like you made some kind of translator from your own biome table format to the one in minetest
17:35 zat biomes are registered programatically from a list based in the scientific list of biomes
17:35 zat of real earth biomes
17:36 zat the result was stunning, the landscapes formed are pretty real-life like.
17:36 hmmmm when i mentioned the biome system changing, i mean at a much more fundamental level than this
17:36 hmmmm internally
17:37 hmmmm not just the external interface
17:37 zat what I am interested in is in arriving to a stable Lua interface for it
17:39 zat is node_dust_water now depth_water_top?
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17:41 hmmmm no idea, paramat might've changed it
17:41 zat ;uh ok
17:41 hmmmm but the issue is, there can't be a stable lua interface for something when the system itself fundamentally changes
17:42 hmmmm it's sort of like saying that you're going to design a car's body when you don't know if it's going to be a boat or a truck
17:42 hmmmm maybe you like what's currently existing
17:42 hmmmm i sure don't...
17:43 hmmmm there are major issues or limitations that you might not have encountered yet or otherwise don't know about
17:43 zat hmmmm: the example would be more accurate if it is about the controls to drive it :P
17:45 hmmmm aren't boat controls different from a car?
17:45 hmmmm anyway
17:46 hmmmm right now biomes work just based on what I like to call "climate" characteristics
17:46 hmmmm the Y-value cutoff is a hack
17:46 hmmmm it's difficult to optimize and results in unpredictable biomes, and cannot account at all for biomes with terrain characteristics
17:47 hmmmm a desert right now is an area with a certain amount of heat and humidity, based on which other biomes happen to be registered in the system at that given point in time
17:47 hmmmm whereas in actuality a desert has more to it than that
17:47 hmmmm a desert is mostly flat and dry, away from areas of water
17:48 hmmmm likewise a gently sloping hill cannot be distinguished from a mountain
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17:49 hmmmm there are some fundamental things about biomes that won't change, like the fact that it has a name, and that it has a top node, filler node, and water node, but that's about it
17:49 hmmmm everything else is subject to change
17:51 hmmmm in fact I think I'm going to change what people use as the name right now to display_name, and make name more like a nodename is - "mymod:desert"
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18:02 TeTpaAka #1496 can be closed now.
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18:07 zat hmmmm: there are different kind of deserts
18:12 zat hmmmm: take a look at this
18:12 zat http://biobook.nerinxhs.org/bb/ecolo​gy/biomes/1000px-Lifezones_Pengo.png
18:14 zat with all that variables introduced the biomes can be near perfect.
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19:06 RealBadAngel ElectronLibre, ive updated the branch, you may try now
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19:28 TenPlus1 hi folks
19:28 TenPlus1 am getting an error: "2015-05-28 06:44:50: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=19721 statically but block (994,0,949) already contains 49 objects. Forcing delete."
19:28 TenPlus1 that particular node is underground and stone, no objects or players are nearby... any ideas ???
19:29 ElectronLibre Still getting an error RealBadAngel : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11417426/
19:30 RealBadAngel weird, VanessaE has just built it
19:32 VanessaE TenPlus1: that coordinate is a block address, not a node coord - multiply X, Y, Z by 16 and check again
19:33 TenPlus1 thanks Vanessa, checking...
19:35 TenPlus1 block in question is a quicksand node...  still nothing untoward...
19:35 TenPlus1 is their a limit to how many objects a block area can hold ??
19:36 RealBadAngel ElectronLibre, please try now
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19:40 ElectronLibre The new one : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11417606/
19:41 RealBadAngel ElectronLibre, are getting just patch or compile my whole branch?
19:42 ElectronLibre Compiling whole branch, with make clean && make.
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19:42 VanessaE git reset --hard 43702ec6ac0fae7c8ef04be82bcca72ba9bec017 ; git pull -f ; sleep 5; cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DENABLE_FREETYPE=true -DENABLE_LEVELDB=1 -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr ; make clean; make -j8
19:42 VanessaE this is how I'm compiling it
19:42 ElectronLibre Let's see.
19:43 VanessaE (the commit specified there is just a random commit that predates RBA's code, to ensure I always get exactly what he's pushed, if a force push happens_)
19:43 VanessaE the sleep was to give me time to cancel it before it starts compiling :)
19:45 ElectronLibre You're not compiling server. Are you?
19:45 RealBadAngel ElectronLibre, the branch compiles without any problems
19:46 ElectronLibre Try configuring it with -DBUILD_SERVER=1 and compiling.
19:46 RealBadAngel and  yes, im not compiling server
19:46 ElectronLibre Otherwise, yes, it compiles.
19:46 RealBadAngel you dont need server for minimapper anyway
19:46 RealBadAngel this is only client side feature
19:47 ElectronLibre Yes, but I always compile both to have a local server to do tests with a separated binary.
19:47 ElectronLibre And here is the problem RealBadAngel, it breaks when compiling minetestserver target, so if you don't enable minetestserver binary, you won't get any error.
19:47 RealBadAngel i will fix server issues later today
19:48 RealBadAngel atm just build client and connect to your old server
19:48 ElectronLibre Weird, I still get minetest without my configuration, but it compiles well, whereas using -DBUILD_SERVER=1 breaks.
19:48 ElectronLibre s/minetest/minetestserver
19:48 ElectronLibre That's what I will do, thanks.
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19:56 TenPlus1 is their a limit to how many active objects are allowed inside a map block ??
20:00 sfan5 VanessaE: why sleep 5?
20:00 VanessaE sfan5: it's not needed now, but it was there just to give me time to abort before the compile at the time
20:01 VanessaE (I forget why)
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20:10 TeTpaAka TenPlus1: max_objects_per_block = 49 in minetest.conf.example
20:10 TenPlus1 thanks TeTpaAka
20:10 TeTpaAka np
20:11 TenPlus1 nite all
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23:06 paramat joined #minetest-dev
23:07 paramat zat see https://github.com/paramat/bi​omesdev/blob/master/init.lua
23:08 paramat node_dust_water has been removed. now node_water_top replaces water to a depth of depth_water_top, to enable icesheet with definable thickness
23:09 paramat also node_stone has been added, it will replace all stone in a mapchunk, so you can use desert stone, sandstone..
23:10 zat thx paramat, I was thinking on continuing the development of mod earth but the game runs so slow now
23:10 zat it is almost unplayable
23:10 paramat ? is it your mod that makes it slow?
23:11 zat paramat: it runs super slow alone, with no mods at all
23:12 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
23:12 paramat weird. there is a nasty memory leak at the mmoment that becomes a problem during long sessions
23:12 paramat (moment)
23:13 paramat apart from that MT has been getting faster over the last year
23:13 zat I am running version 0.4.11
23:14 paramat that's a broken version, use 0.4.12
23:15 paramat keep an eye on my 'mapgen news' thread in the forum for updates to biome API etc
23:15 paramat it's fairly settled down now, won't change much
23:15 paramat ..the biome API
23:17 zat I have got some ideas though
23:18 paramat i hope you continue with earth, and compromise on the alloy thing, or get help to code it and submit it
23:19 zat I need support from the core devs more than anything else
23:21 paramat the alloy feature would probably be accepted
23:21 zat I have got an idea for the biomes...
23:21 paramat also, we're understaffed and very busy, need more c++ devs
23:21 paramat tell me =)
23:22 zat how about an average altitude option for biomes
23:22 zat and the altitude is applied with some noise
23:22 zat so it is unequal
23:23 zat maybe I am being confusing...
23:23 paramat to avoid the straight-line borders of ymin, ymax?
23:23 zat look, in real life snow doesn't start at an exact altitude
23:23 zat yes, right
23:24 zat or, a better yet idea
23:24 zat make the heat map be colder the higher.
23:24 paramat aha
23:25 zat so snow in high altitudes will occur naturally looking
23:25 paramat nice idea but high-altitude floatlands should have all biomes available
23:26 paramat it's best to manually do that in biome definitions
23:27 paramat i'll think on the noisy altitude thing though
23:28 zat paramat: wouldn't high altitude float-lands be freezing in real life anyway?
23:28 zat if such lands were possible lol
23:29 paramat yes realistically, humidity would fall also, so they would all be tundra
23:30 paramat i reduced both in my mapgens at first, but decided it's more fun to have all biomes up there
23:30 zat lol
23:32 paramat so you're a member of the forum, but not at github?
23:33 zat Neither, I am not in the forums.
23:36 paramat i know you have your own git server, but joining github to take part in the discussions will increase your influence on features
23:36 paramat forum is helpful for asking questions
23:36 paramat you really should join both
23:42 hmmmm hrmm
23:42 paramat also a good way to build support from others for your suggestions
23:42 hmmmm paramat, ever since that biome cleanup it seems that grass is placed underwater now
23:43 paramat hmmm that happened to me too, fixed in latest biomesdev
23:43 hmmmm ahh okay
23:43 hmmmm did you need to add a new biome or something?
23:43 paramat it was due to defining a biome down to ymin = 1 instead of 2
23:44 paramat now the ocean biomes are ymax = 1, ymin = -31000
23:45 paramat above water biomes have ymin = 2
23:45 zat paramat: there is a serious issue with beaches now.
23:46 zat I made biomes for snowed beached, deserted beaches, beaches that have grass touching the water.
23:46 zat and iced beaches
23:46 zat now all beaches look exactly the same.
23:47 paramat so anyway desert and rainforest used to have ymin = 1, because now the final biome recalc is at water level those above-water biomes were chosen at water level and stayed in force underwater
23:48 hmmmm hmm
23:48 hmmmm does that make the most sense??
23:48 hmmmm it's up to you since I'm abandoning it
23:48 hmmmm that's your biome system now
23:48 paramat zat i would need to see your code
23:49 paramat hmmm indeed possibly biome should be recalculated at every new surface underwater too
23:49 zat paramat: any biome registered for y_max < 5 or 3
23:49 hmmmm another thing, what about biomes such as "deep ocean"?
23:49 paramat exactly
23:49 hmmmm what if an underwater biome changes
23:49 hmmmm due to y coordinate
23:50 zat for cases like this the noisy average altitudes would work too
23:50 zat there can be irregular beaches
23:51 paramat hmmmmm okay i'll work on making that change
23:52 paramat it won't affect performance
23:54 paramat zat looking at your pastes, your above-water biomes, beach biomes, underwater biomes have overlapping ymin/ymax
23:55 paramat should be: above water biome: ymin = waterlevel + beachheight + 1
23:55 paramat underwater biome: ymax = waterlevel - 1
23:55 paramat and beach biomes unchanged
23:56 paramat the biome API has changed recently so dev in latest 0.4.12dev
23:57 zat its no use, there is always a beach overriding what I make
23:59 troller joined #minetest-dev
23:59 zat everything y <= 3 has mapgen_dirt

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