Time Nick Message 00:09 hmmmm it really doesn't matter 00:21 est31 fine, now there is only a memory corruption left 00:21 est31 and perhaps dozens of other bugs 00:21 est31 who knows? 00:21 hmmmm heh 00:22 hmmmm requesting testers for linux and windows: https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/5cb19782fee106f8466672f23233cf5083e72e6a 00:22 hmmmm I 100% guarantee I broke shit 00:44 paramat okay as it seems i have enough approval i will push river water soon 01:25 paramat now pushing to game 01:29 paramat push complete 01:30 VanessaE damn it paramat 01:30 VanessaE stop improving minetest_game :) 01:30 VanessaE (you're soon gonna force me to resync dreambuilder :P _ 01:31 paramat ;P 01:42 paramat next i will add river water to the biome api and biome definitions so it can be replaced by chosen nodes 01:51 VanessaE btw, why use inventorycube() for the water nodes? 01:58 paramat erm, dunno i just copied default:water 01:59 paramat i don't like how flowers reproduce into ever-growing constant densities, i think they should drop 1-2 seeds and be manually re-planted like other crops 02:00 VanessaE I think I suggested something like that before too 02:00 VanessaE but don't they at least limit to perlin? 02:01 paramat um.. 02:03 paramat no, they're generated to varying density using perlin 02:03 VanessaE huh. 02:03 paramat but will reproduce to a constant density of 3 flowers per 9x9 node area 02:03 VanessaE ew. 02:04 paramat i plan to add moon-version flowers to my moonrealm mod, they need to be farmable and have seeds 02:05 VanessaE eh, be careful there 02:05 VanessaE there was a "moon flower" debate a while back 02:05 VanessaE (little blue, dimly-glowing flowers as I recall, could be used to make glow dust to be used for light-source recipes) 02:06 VanessaE that debate didn't go well 02:06 paramat yeah i don't mean that =) 02:06 VanessaE oh hell I misread that 02:06 VanessaE heh 02:08 paramat the flower spread abm is very slow so and on a moon you can't just go searching for more 02:08 paramat (remove 'so') 02:08 VanessaE right 02:12 paramat moon cotton too, all this is for dye and coloured wool for carpets and curtains 02:21 paramat hmmmm will you be working on mg_biome or l_mapgen the next couple days? just checking to avoid conflicts 02:41 paramat #2635 will test soon and push later if acceptable 02:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2635 -- Biome API: Add biome-specific river water by paramat 02:48 paramat next i will add the mapgen alias for river water to mtgame 02:55 paramat game#495 02:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/495 -- Default/mapgen: Add alias for river water source by paramat 02:59 paramat now pushing to mtgame 03:02 paramat done 03:06 paramat back later 03:13 est31 if anyone has time please test my SRP PR 03:13 est31 only thing missing now is changing passwors 03:13 est31 passwords* 03:21 est31 About translation PRs, what to do? 03:22 est31 There are currently 2 open PRs for chinese for example 03:22 est31 #1980 and #2634 03:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1980 -- Update Simplified Chinese translation by yyt16384 03:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2634 -- Update chinese translation by fishyWET 03:22 est31 we don't have any way to check them, so rely on the community? Let them rot? 03:23 est31 use google translate and when it doesnt output shit then we merge? 03:26 est31 I mean we just need a standardized way 03:26 est31 best would be some translation cloud or so 03:53 hmmmm paramat: yes I think so 03:54 hmmmm hrmm adding a river water node 03:55 hmmmm paramat, is there any other way to do what you need to? 03:55 hmmmm in minecraft, river is a biome as ocean is a biome 03:57 hmmmm ideally when terrain-base biomes get introduced, we'd be able to distinguish this and just set c_water 03:58 hmmmm also, minecraft stores biome right in their equivalent of a mapblock 03:59 hmmmm so the mapgen can directly override biome selection 03:59 hmmmm maybe we should start thinking about enhancing how biomes work rather than just building upon a system that's rather weak to begin with 04:23 * paramat reads 04:24 paramat what you write seems reasonable. i don't deparately need to add river water to the biome api, as we have whats needed to start work on river mapgens, river water could for now be left as default:river_water 04:25 paramat but it would be nice to have until a new system arrives 04:25 paramat for example in tundra rivers become ice glaciers 04:26 paramat it would just make mapgen development prettier as we could use a full set of biomes 04:30 paramat also, while new mapgens are in development, players can use/test them, for now, with a fully functional biome api. so yeah i would still like to push this 04:31 hmmmm hmmm 04:31 hmmmm see what we have right now is a biome system based on climate only 04:32 hmmmm what i wanted was a biome system based on climate and terrain 04:32 paramat i remember your idea 04:32 hmmmm what you're doing (and you might not even realize it) is adding support for all types of terrain within a single climate biome 04:32 paramat yes 04:33 hmmmm so which direction makes more sense is what I'm wondering 04:34 est31 bye 04:34 hmmmm bye 04:35 hmmmm what do you think, paramat? 04:36 hmmmm should we have the mapgens determine which terrain features are which? 04:36 paramat i have no objection to a new system, and would like to see you experiment with your idea 04:36 hmmmm that would require either saving the output, or effectively running the mapgens each time we want to calculate the biome 04:37 hmmmm honestly the mapgen knows best when it comes to terrain 04:37 hmmmm my algorithmic approaches don't work quite well 04:39 paramat i don't have a strong opinion this, but it's best to try it and see 04:40 hmmmm it's not that easy. effectively, this requires changing the mapblock serialization format 04:40 hmmmm or at least saving (X, Z) along with each block if it doesn't yet exist 04:41 hmmmm http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Anvil_file_format <---- see here, this is the approach that makes sense and is used by minecraft exactly the same way 04:41 paramat until a new system aarives, i feel like using the old system to the full. not having glaciers in tundra while working on a new mapgen will, oddly enough, bug me 04:42 * paramat looks 04:42 VanessaE well a new map format would make your colored lights easier... 04:43 hmmmm a new mapBLOCK format 04:43 hmmmm and colored lights are on the backburner 04:43 VanessaE so I assumed. 04:43 VanessaE minetest has other stuff that must be dealt with first. 04:43 hmmmm christ i have biomes, client-side lua, enhanced emergequeue, all this other stuff 04:44 hmmmm at least there are some people here working on some big things that need work :) 04:44 hmmmm like est31 and SRP 04:44 hmmmm thank you est31. 04:44 hmmmm everybody else sorta pecks at the small stuff or refactoring 04:45 hmmmm also jin xi with the irrlicht native particle spawners 04:46 paramat i'm happy with the current biome system, it's not amazing but okay, don't feel pressure to redesign it all (more work) 04:46 hmmmm well I'll approve of your addition of river water 04:46 paramat okay cool 04:46 hmmmm but this is not going to be the final biome system.. there's not going to be a single biome system 04:47 hmmmm I want there to be multiple versions to encourage experimentation 04:47 paramat multiple systems are my preference 04:47 hmmmm I'm also planning on adding a non-perlin-noise version 04:47 hmmmm blotches like minecraft has 04:47 hmmmm it really does produce boring shapes, but they're at least more consistently big 04:47 paramat "lovely crinkly edges" 04:48 hmmmm with this system you have a tiny thin strip of snow biome sandwiched in between two desert biomes, or something equally whackery 04:48 hmmmm lovely, init 04:48 paramat personally i don't like the MC jigsaw puzzle 04:48 paramat too regular 04:49 paramat but have nothing against the option 04:49 hmmmm I think I have to draw out on paper what shapes I'd like the biomes to be first 04:49 VanessaE only way you're gonna solve that, hmmmm, is by taking elevation *and* Z location into account 04:49 hmmmm and then come up with some way of making it happen, not the other way around 04:49 VanessaE and that'll piss players off, I'm sure. 04:49 hmmmm ?? what do you mean 04:50 hmmmm you mean Y location? 04:50 VanessaE I mean Z. as in the closer to center you get, the more lush the landscape. deserts as you move further out, tundra and ice in the north and south 04:50 VanessaE etc. 04:51 hmmmm that kind of sounds like the addition of the climate noise to the current biome system 04:52 VanessaE I suppose it's similar, bbut like I said it'll piss players off because they'll have huge travel distances to find different biomes 04:52 VanessaE -b 04:52 hmmmm lol I like how MS made GetCurrentDirectory have the same exact parameters and return values as getcwd(), except the switched the two parameters around 04:52 hmmmm jerks 04:53 VanessaE and then of course elevation affects temperature and humidity (or should, idk if it does now) 04:53 paramat large scale climate variation by noise is okay by me, but not linear or determined by centre-edge, or N-S or E-W 04:53 hmmmm agreed 04:53 hmmmm that's why I had it as perlin noise 04:54 paramat i stopped having Y affect temp/humidity in my mapgens because it makes all floatlands tundra, no biome diversity 04:55 hmmmm height should affect temperature, but not by that magnitude 04:55 hmmmm it should be much more subtle 04:55 VanessaE well elevation-dependent, but only up to a point 04:56 hmmmm hmm 04:56 hmmmm does minecraft never have cliffs hanging over rivers? 04:56 VanessaE plus there's the issue of multiple actual realms (i.e. the 1024-node divisions) 04:56 paramat well i always insist on filliing the entire world up to 31000, so even a gentle variation ends up huge at the top 04:57 paramat (filling with rarish floatlands) 04:57 hmmmm you can make an exception for extreme elevations 04:57 hmmmm like making floatland height relative to some baseline 04:57 VanessaE (one doesn't want elevation to turn a realm at +1024 into all snow or whatever) 04:58 paramat we make use of 0 to -31000 but not ~256 to 31000 04:58 paramat so in my lua mapgens i use 3d noise for temp and humidity 05:01 paramat anyway will push my PR soon.. 05:07 paramat now pushing 2635 05:12 paramat complete 05:40 hmmmm alrighty 05:40 hmmmm #2637 passed all its checks 05:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2637 -- Porting: Refactor initalizePaths() by kwolekr 05:41 hmmmm anybody? please review 05:59 paramat i looked but it's beyond me sorry 05:59 hmmmm :/ 06:13 paramat http://i.imgur.com/qAtngOY.png more fractal mapgen 06:16 hmmmm that's the way i thought proller's fractal mapgen was going to look like 06:16 hmmmm this is so much better 06:17 hmmmm and playable 10:22 Calinou website editors, can you add #minetest-fr to the Other channels section? 10:45 kilbith and #minetest-es 10:46 kilbith nvm 12:05 celeron55 Calinou: added 12:08 Calinou thanks 17:52 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/b0fd3aabb04a5c464b51e22803f47ada70368512 17:52 est31 ^ merging in 15 minutes 17:53 est31 see comments on this commit too: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5f0b36b8b70faa36b20343342567471c8f50b7f2 17:53 est31 I've used the same comparison that is used to decide whether to start the server 17:54 Krock est31, "// Only time out if we aren't if we to wait for the server we started" re-phrase pls 17:55 Krock Also, I think that's useless because it's only about a ping answer 17:56 est31 oh 17:56 est31 rephrasing 17:57 est31 I think *address != "" needs explanation 17:59 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/f1a41e4f77ce272e8e454710a7a168d95466742c 17:59 Krock This comit is still not required IMO. Were you able to reproduce this problem? 18:00 est31 So you think it can't be reproduced? 18:01 est31 What they said sounded very likely 18:05 est31 yes I am abled to reproduce 18:05 est31 its a very mean one 18:05 est31 first you have to wait 18:05 est31 then the message comes: timed out. 18:05 est31 so you dont wait 10 secs 18:05 est31 but that time you actually would wait too 18:06 est31 due to single threadedness 18:07 est31 and tested, the commit works 18:07 Krock Well then. Continue. 18:08 est31 pushed 18:09 est31 still thanks for the commit 18:09 Krock s/-it/ent/ 18:10 est31 ? 18:12 est31 bye now 19:08 hmmmm nobody reviews my commits 19:10 VanessaE hmmmm: because you usually code at a level above everyone else :P 19:10 hmmmm http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/tuffguy1979/0gNvwh.jpg 19:10 VanessaE heh 19:11 hmmmm i didn't do anything too radical though.. just made things easier to read and simplified some logic 19:11 hmmmm initializePaths() is one of those things which people only tack onto because they're too scared of breaking other platforms 19:12 hmmmm neoasthetic or whatever broke RUN_IN_PLACE for OS X. as in, he made it read from the cfbundle directory and not relative to the currently running executable 19:12 hmmmm ={ not cool 19:12 hmmmm run_in_place needs to actually mean run_in_place 19:13 VanessaE not good. 19:13 VanessaE of course OS-X is kind of a special case isn't it? seems like "run-in-place" should pretty much never be 0 in that platform.. 19:13 hmmmm i'm not sure 19:13 hmmmm why should run_in_place be different from other unixes? 19:13 VanessaE I always got the impression that on Mac, all programs were basically self-contained in their own folders. 19:14 hmmmm maybe older ones 19:14 VanessaE i.e. none of the usual /usr/* stuff. 19:14 VanessaE oh well maybe 19:14 hmmmm there's a "CFBundle resource location" 19:14 VanessaE my only Mac experience is limited to older ones 19:14 hmmmm executables are stored in /Applications 19:14 hmmmm i think. 19:14 hmmmm I can load up my testing OSX vm 19:15 VanessaE on my old one (runs OS-X 10.4 I think), I seem to recall everything being stored in an Applications folder (wherever that actually is, I never took note), but that each package usually had its own folder therein 19:16 hmmmm osx is such a pain in the ass 19:16 hmmmm everything is like.. different for the sake of being different and it's not necessarily better 19:16 VanessaE it's Apple. 19:16 VanessaE 'nuff said? :) 19:17 hmmmm it's not loading up for whatever reason 19:17 hmmmm uh oh 19:18 VanessaE ? 19:18 hmmmm my VM is stuck on the gray screen with apple logo and the swirly loading animation 20:16 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/493#issuecomment-94309290 20:18 paramat ^ need support for my river water 22:04 hmmmm est31: I just saw that "disable timeout for singleplayer" commit - what's up with that? 22:04 hmmmm why would a lot of mods slow the connection down to that point? localhost connections should be instantaneous 23:22 hmmmm crap, just found two bugs related to noise