Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-03-17

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
00:10 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
00:16 luizrpgluiz left #minetest-dev
00:34 Ritchie joined #minetest-dev
00:34 proller joined #minetest-dev
00:51 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
00:54 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
00:55 Tablet_One joined #minetest-dev
00:56 hmmmm nerzhul:  I don't approve of 5f8e48c at all and I'm sure lots other devs don't either.
00:57 hmmmm how come you didn't seek any approval from anybody else?
00:57 hmmmm now lua errors will abort the application instead of kicking the game back to the main menu.
00:59 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
01:01 hmmmm also I'm not too sure about e7737ff.. reliable_data and unreliable_data are sent in the same exact manner?
01:02 est31 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/commit/e7737ff
01:02 est31 404 4 me
01:02 hmmmm before your changes, I bet they were sent very differently.  there is a reason why it was made like that and I think you should research this before determining it's irrelevant and changing its functionality.  "it looks like this works fine for me" is a bad excuse
01:03 hmmmm est31, e7736ff rather.
01:03 hmmmm nerzhul:  unless you understand the totality of minetest, I don't understand how you can make commits so quickly without prior discussion
01:05 est31 hmmmm, was that commit more than refactoring?
01:05 hmmmm that particular commit, no.  but that piece of code was changed with the huge network changes
01:06 est31 what do you mean with "differently"?
01:07 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/stable-0.4/src/server.cpp#L944
01:09 est31 I see what you mean now
01:09 est31 (with the change)
01:09 hmmmm there is a large difference between reliable and unreliable data
01:09 est31 yes
01:09 Tablet_One joined #minetest-dev
01:09 hmmmm but it just got steamroll'd by nerzhul's large network changes
01:10 hmmmm this qualifies as a regression
01:10 est31 it still works, doesn't it?
01:10 hmmmm I'm willing to bet that all of the unreliable data is now erroneously being marked as reliable
01:10 hmmmm that's irrelevant
01:11 hmmmm if I add Sleep(5000); in the main loop of your GUI application and it freezes for 5 seconds every time you do some kind of action, "it still works, doesn't it?"
01:12 est31 memcpy isn't beautiful either
01:12 est31 ok thats coding style not behaviour
01:13 est31 (reliable/unreliable is behaviour)
01:13 Tablet_One Ok, so I tried to join a server, and I got in, but the app crashed right after. I don't know if it's the app, or if the server is to heavy for a tablet. Here's the debug: http://pastebin.com/3MPPv4pX
01:13 hmmmm est31:  FWIW, *all* of the packets are copied using memcpy before being sent
01:14 est31 I know they are copied
01:14 est31 perhaps memcpy is still used
01:14 est31 but using memcpy in a repetitive style is ugly
01:15 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
01:15 est31 and dangerous
01:15 est31 Wayward_One, I see is no crash in that log
01:22 Ritchie joined #minetest-dev
01:22 Tablet_One Ok, then my tablet must not be powerful enough
01:23 Tablet_One Thanks for clearing that up
01:23 est31 Tablet_One, how did you create the log?
01:23 Tablet_One It was formed automatically in the Minetest folder
01:24 est31 hm, can you check the logcat?
01:24 Tablet_One What is that?
01:25 est31 its android logging mechanism
01:25 est31 every app logs there
01:25 est31 install this: https://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=com.nolanlawson.logcat
01:25 Tablet_One Ok
01:25 est31 only if you have root access. if not, then nvm
01:26 zat joined #minetest-dev
01:26 Tablet_One Nope, I haven't rooted it yet
01:27 est31 you did singleplayer?
01:28 Tablet_One No, I joined BlueLobster Free-4-All
01:28 est31 ok
01:34 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
01:55 Zeno` Looks like the android release went well?
02:05 Wayward_One pretty well, yeah
02:07 est31 there is #2502 ...
02:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2502 -- Shaders on android produce wrong colors
02:08 est31 f-droid process can be tracked here : https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fd​roiddata/merge_requests/639
02:08 est31 but yes it went well otherwise
02:08 est31 already 10-50 installs!
02:08 est31 we'll make our first million in a week :P
02:09 est31 (at this pace)
02:41 Zeno` #2503 (trivial)
02:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2503 -- Minor cleanup: game.cpp by Zeno-
02:42 Zeno` So sfan5 is less upset
02:42 Zeno` I am not going to make GameRunData "global" though (sorry sfan5)
02:43 Zeno` s/"global"/"effectively global"
02:50 Zeno` est31, the only time I've seen "all red" is when shaders are not working
02:54 VanessaE *rubs eyes* hi all.
02:58 Zeno` no chatting! /me throws chalk at VanessaE
02:59 hmmmm hmm
02:59 VanessaE ow.
03:00 hmmmm does PseudoRandom lose its ability to get inlined if I use virtual functions?
03:00 Zeno` hmmmm, I would say so
03:00 hmmmm yeah... shit
03:01 hmmmm I'm not sure how to implement this in a clean manner without reducing performance or bloating code
03:01 Zeno` implement what?
03:02 * Zeno` looks at the logs
03:09 JeDaYoshi joined #minetest-dev
03:10 JeDaYoshi joined #minetest-dev
03:17 hmmmm a non-crappy version of pseudorandom =-]
03:35 Zeno` How does Jenkins work?
03:35 Zeno` There is no config file anywhere?
03:37 Zeno` I don't really "get" it
03:39 hmmmm LEEEEEEEROY!
03:43 Zeno` oh
03:43 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/699d42efc64cb1e317efbdf21dd55fdbef4c108c
03:43 Zeno` that was stupid anyway (using assert())
03:44 Zeno` assert() is not in release builds
03:44 Zeno` Why can't people understand that? :(
03:52 est31 wasn't there this custom assert definition of minetest?
03:53 Zeno` There was before it got removed
03:53 est31 knew you would comment on this
03:54 Zeno` I just don't understand where people got the idea of using assert() for lazy error checking in the first place?
03:54 Zeno` Are universities full of stupid people now?
03:55 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2503/​files#diff-18513665750ef5adf42b5ec29e14162eR68
03:55 Zeno` (the ones teaching I mean)
03:55 est31 is github stupid, or did you really add a # and then a tab?
03:55 Zeno` I added a tab
03:56 est31 at the start or behind the #?
03:56 Zeno` after the #
03:56 est31 why that
03:56 est31 does the preprocessor ignore it otherwise
03:56 Zeno` nope
03:57 Zeno` there was nothing in the style guide and looking at other files I couldn't find a clear way that the MT source code prefers it
03:57 est31 but I understand the idea behind. you shouldn't ident because of #ifdefs
03:57 est31 so you did the pseudoident
03:58 Zeno` you do indent if it's all pre-processor stuff
03:58 Zeno` (you don't have to, but it's easier to read and common practice)
03:59 Zeno` The question is where to place the tab; and that's a style issue
03:59 est31 stupid thing that preprocessor requires newlines.
03:59 est31 in fact, you could spare all newlines in a file if there wasnt the preprocessor
04:00 Zeno` well, you can use # inside the macro so I guess there's no reasonable way around it heh
04:00 est31 I mean, why do we have three kinds of non-printable chars?
04:00 est31 refactor them to one, the space
04:00 est31 its easier to read, without all the downscrolling
04:00 est31 after all, most computer screens are broader than high
04:01 Zeno` you must have a very small screen/terminal if you need to downscroll to see all 3 lines
04:01 Zeno` :)
04:04 Zeno` regarding # at the start of the line followed by tab(s), vs. tab(s) before the #... apparently before ANSI C the # was *required* to be the first character on the line.  So there is some historical reasoning why some projects prefer it always as the first character even if though that's no longer a requirement
04:08 Zeno` we should write a documentary
04:08 est31 ?
04:13 Zeno` The History of Silly Things Inherited from Ancient C Programming
04:40 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
04:52 hmmmm I really wonder how much of a performance hit there would be if I made PseudoRandom next() a virtual function
04:53 hmmmm probably not significant enough to be an issue, but relative to actual operations taking place it might be bad
04:58 est31 joined #minetest-dev
05:01 Zeno` Why's it need to be virtual?
05:02 hmmmm so i can minimize the amount of changes I do to the rest of the code
05:03 Zeno` I guess I'd need to see what you're doing to actually understand that
05:04 est31 joined #minetest-dev
05:05 hmmmm lol
05:05 hmmmm I love how -O2 code is almost always faster than -O3
05:26 paramat joined #minetest-dev
05:27 paramat weird damage bug i just confirmed https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2501
05:30 paramat probably caused by nerzhul's recent damage related commits
05:30 hmmmm i wonder if they were tested...
05:38 paramat ShadowNinja and MTGame team, i'll soon push https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/453 to MTGame, as it's now a mapgen/bugfix/maintenance commit, hope this is okay
05:39 paramat then will also push #2504
05:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2504 -- Mgv6: Remove addDirtGravelBlobs, replaced by registered blob ore in MTGame by paramat
05:40 est31 no apples anymore??
05:41 hmmmm i have an idea of how to do apple trees
05:41 hmmmm it requires a new version of schematics though
05:41 paramat the tree was controversial =) i need to get this pushed
05:41 Zeno` well I've found out the source of the "invisibility" bug that I haven't reported
05:42 paramat when there are trees growing through each other the trunk dissappears on one, i was considering using the probability value to allow per-node control of force-placement
05:43 hmmmm we need to write unit tests for schematics
05:43 hmmmm the code for schematics is waay too fragile
05:44 paramat 255 values of probability are so fine, we can control more with the prob value, perhaps odd = force place, even = not force place, or something
05:44 hmmmm paramat:  you know the schematic replacements field in the lua api
05:45 hmmmm add a probability parameter to that
05:45 hmmmm actually that'd require a fair bit more coding
05:45 hmmmm hrmm, okay...
05:46 VanessaE hmmmm: Ltrees does something very similar to place fruits.
05:46 hmmmm I think this could be a shared field between both DECO_LSYSTEM and DECO_SCHEMATIC
05:46 hmmmm good to note
05:47 paramat placing apples in appletrees doesnt seem a problem though, apart from it being the choice between apple and air, not apple and leaf
05:49 paramat unrelated: now trees are allowed to grow to full_node_max i am having to drop dust from there too, am working on that..
05:49 hmmmm hmmm ...
05:50 hmmmm this is so messy
05:50 Zeno` this is not good
05:50 Zeno` I don't even know what type hp is supposed to be
05:51 Zeno` in some places (most) it's u8, in others 16, and in at least one place s32
05:51 hmmmm maybe it's time to think about shifting discrete structures over to a different system altogether
05:51 hmmmm where it gets placed outside of the map generator
05:51 paramat so hmmmmm what's the issue you see with appletrees?
05:52 hmmmm trying to think of whether to modify Schematic or DecoSchematic
05:53 hmmmm probably DecoSchematic
05:54 hmmmm add a std::map<content_t, std::pair<content_t, u8> > to DecoSchematic
05:54 hmmmm that'll be the replacement probability map
05:54 hmmmm as you could guess, it's original node -> (replacement node, probability value)
05:55 hmmmm have this loaded from place_schematic and register_decoration
05:55 hmmmm and then pass it as a parameter to Schematic::blitToVManip
05:55 hmmmm I guess that makes the most sense here
05:57 hmmmm so this way we'll have one register_decoration using the same schematic as regular trees, it just has a replacements = {{from="default:leaves", to="default:apple", probability=128 }
05:57 hmmmm well that's too high of a probability for apple trees
05:57 hmmmm but you get the idea
05:57 paramat ah i see
06:02 paramat for jungles i need to pack the trees really close, overlapping in fact, so trunks should be force-placed and leaves should not. we could perhaps have 0-127 as probs with no force place, 128-255 as probs with force place
06:05 hmmmm i don't see force-placed probabilities as being particularily useful.  more likely than not you'll end up with swiss cheese of the two node types
06:05 hmmmm and it'll look ugly
06:05 hmmmm as for particular nodes being force placed and others not, that would necessitate a new schematic format.  i don't really have any other ideas
06:08 paramat ah yes. i did think of 255 = force place. 0-254 = no force-place with probability
06:09 hmmmm oh don't assign special meaning to certain probability values
06:09 hmmmm i made that mistake the first schematic format version
06:10 hmmmm do you want to make force placement an attribute of the node itself, or the content type?
06:13 paramat othe node itself
06:13 paramat (-o)
06:14 hmmmm that's going to require much more storage
06:15 hmmmm you'd also need to rewrite MapNode::deSerializeBulk if you do that
06:15 hmmmm well, nevermind that
06:16 paramat maybe i misunderstand. essentially because prob in param1 doesn't really need 255 levels of prob we could encode more information with param1, that was my idea for using it to also control force-place
06:16 paramat anyways it's not urgent, the forests will still 'look' good with hidden chopped trunks
06:17 hmmmm so you want to split param1 between "probability of placement" and "probability of force placement"?
06:18 paramat prob of force place is not needed, that can be yes or no
06:18 paramat we just need to make sure trunks are always force placed
06:19 paramat ..and leaves are not, within one schem
06:19 hmmmm that can be doable by separating it on content
06:19 paramat the problem with MT is, if one becomes too perfectionist one quickly goes insane =)
06:22 paramat back later O/
06:22 paramat left #minetest-dev
06:23 Zeno` hmmmm, #2505 and #2503 if you have a few seconds
06:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2505 -- Fix various damage related bugs (client-side) by Zeno-
06:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2503 -- Minor cleanup: game.cpp by Zeno-
06:23 hmmmm lol what @ 2503
06:23 hmmmm if you wanted to make game.cpp cleaner, a good start would be to separating things into new files
06:23 Zeno` sfan was unhappy the parameter names were not consistent
06:24 hmmmm you misspelled parameter in the commit msg by the way
06:24 Zeno` I know and I planned to do that (split into files and other things) after I refactored the whole file originally but lost steam :)
06:24 Zeno` Oh... I'll fix that
06:24 hmmmm removing unnecessary includes is always good, doubly so if you're removing them from a header :-)
06:25 hmmmm as far as "#    preprocessor_directive"  - I would normally do that in my own code for correctness, but minetest has "     #preprocessor_directive" everywhere already so i figured i'd be consistent
06:26 Zeno` yeah I wasn't sure about the accepted style
06:27 hmmmm it doesn't matter, what is consistent in this entire codebase
06:27 hmmmm heh
06:28 sfan5 Zeno`: why not make GameRunData a class var.?
06:28 hmmmm also GameRunData is a pointer in some places and const ref in another
06:29 hmmmm do the functions where it's passed as a pointer modify it?
06:29 Zeno` sfan5, well that effectively makes it almost global
06:29 Zeno` hmmmm, not all of them
06:29 Zeno` oh as a pointer always
06:29 sfan5 almost global?
06:29 hmmmm if you ever looked at google code style this is a thing
06:30 Zeno` if not it's passed as a const reference
06:30 Zeno` sfan5, the class is huge
06:30 hmmmm they have a rule that things should usually be passed as pointers, but you could pass it as a const ref instead if it's not being odified
06:30 hmmmm modified
06:30 hmmmm void processUserInput(VolatileRunFlags *flags, GameRunData *rundData,
06:30 hmmmm rund data
06:31 Zeno` hmmmm, and that's what I use as well... pointer for stuff to be modified and const ref. otherwise
06:31 hmmmm lol you propogated the typo throughout the function
06:31 hmmmm was that on purpose to piss off sfan
06:31 Zeno` shit
06:31 sfan5 lol
06:31 Zeno` nah, it's my stutter
06:31 hmmmm otherwise LGTM +10000
06:32 Zeno` sfan5, I can explain the history (if you want it) behind the parameters if you want it ;)
06:32 Zeno` see... I stuttered again
06:33 hmmmm so why does spawning into lava cause invincibility
06:33 hmmmm when you respawn don't you become un-dead and it starts hurting you?
06:34 hmmmm also i'm not sure what the difference is between being dead and having zero hp
06:35 Zeno` I'll give the brief history. When I refactored the_game() it was originally a 3400 line function. So, I broke that giga-function into many smaller functions; it was not a class at all. So that the GameRunData didn't have to be an object with file scope I naturally used parameters.  Then, after that someone suggested (or asked, I can't remember) that it be made a class instead.  After changing it to a class I figured that it would be nice (still) to
06:35 Zeno` know which functions changed the rundddData so I left them
06:35 Zeno` hmmmm, there is no difference
06:36 Zeno` hmmmm, and I don't know why spawning into lava makes you never lose health. It's related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/64ff966bae99813229dff6629fd9131a91ba7484
06:36 Zeno` and the client and server being out of sync somehow
06:36 hmmmm oh
06:36 Zeno` server version doesn't matter
06:36 Zeno` just connect to any server with the current client...
06:37 sfan5 Zeno`: function d needs GameRunData, it is called like this function a -> function b -> function c -> d; i now need to change at least 8 lines of code to get that variable into my function
06:37 sfan5 and you won't <Zeno`> know which functions changed the rundddData
06:37 sfan5 because function a, b and c need the runData arg too
06:38 Zeno` teleport into lava; you die; teleport back into lava; /sethome if the server has it; and from then on whenever you /home you become invincible (e.g. you can skip the dying part)
06:38 sfan5 whats so bad about making it 'almost global' anyway?
06:38 Zeno` if you don't have teleport you need to be able to type /sethome really quickly but it's still possible
06:39 Zeno` sfan5, what's so bad about having everything global (or file scope)?
06:39 sfan5 I'm not talking about having everything global
06:40 sfan5 but having something that is needed by many functions and just passing that along w/ every one of them is inefficient
06:40 Zeno` What I'm saying is that class is way too large anyway I guess... so in this case it probably doesn't matter
06:40 * sfan5 bbl
06:41 Zeno` But that's kind of explained by the historical events (it was not a class at the beginning)... I guess I'm not particularly scared of passing arguments.
06:41 Zeno` sfan5, it's not a moral issue :)
06:42 Zeno` does function d need everything inside runData?
06:42 Zeno` oh, sorry... missed the bbl
06:46 Zeno` The majority of the existing functions don't need runData
06:46 Zeno` One day I'll get back to my original plan of continuing to clean up game.cpp
06:47 Zeno` Maybe I should just make GameRunData smaller for a start
06:48 Zeno` it's a pretty large struct
06:50 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
06:51 Zeno` I may split that class into two as well... if not classes then files where I can expose GameRunData in another way. I remember why I did it that way (in addition to them all originally being functions and not member functions). You can see the pattern by looking at the functions where GameRunData is currently passed to
06:52 Zeno` (i.e. they are all related to processPlayerInteraction)
06:52 Zeno` apart from the single gui one
06:54 Zeno` hmmmm... I might do that tomorrow
06:54 Zeno` s/hmmmm/hmm
06:56 Zeno` especially now we have a client/ directory
07:05 hmmmm about tht
07:08 hmmmm I wanted to reorganize the directories
07:08 hmmmm it might help if we do it all at once, like ripping off a bandaid
07:09 hmmmm if more people are on board with this, I'd like to go through all current pull requests over the course of a few days
07:10 hmmmm and merge, or at least give a comment on why it's not merged yet, or close it if it's been old and abandoned
07:11 hmmmm things that are really specific to client go in client/, really specific server things go into server/, common things stay in src/, then each client/ and server/ has a script/ directory
07:12 hmmmm network is too small of a directory to bother maintaining anymore and the source files in there should be split between client/ and server/
07:12 hmmmm third party libraries should go into a directory called third_party or something
07:12 hmmmm jthread and util stay in src/
07:15 hmmmm I like directories for organizing things, but we should be very careful about going overboard because I don't want to turn into a C++ version of terasology
07:25 Zeno` oh great
07:26 Zeno` my fix causes a lag before damage is updated on-screen
07:32 Zeno` well, actually... you see the damage flash but the hearts don't update straight away
07:34 Ritchie joined #minetest-dev
07:37 Zeno` I'm pushing this: http://dpaste.com/2BRZXH0   (minor bug fix)
07:37 paramat joined #minetest-dev
07:39 paramat will push game#453 very soon
07:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/453 -- default/mapgen.lua: Fix biomes, register blob ores in mgv6 to replace addDirtGravelBlobs by paramat
07:40 celeron55 "Hi I like the game multicraft, but can you make a world with unlimited blocks and objects? Also I've been meaning to ask you if you can make beds and lamps for the miners so they don't have to go out and look for wool and stuff that will save them slot of time,thanks for reading."
07:40 celeron55 enjoy this yet another nonsense email
07:41 Zeno` umm. Thanks?
07:41 Zeno` heh
07:42 Zeno` A good employer would supply beds and lamps for their miners
07:42 Zeno` All employees should have a bed for quick naps
07:42 celeron55 if i didn't think that person is completely retarded, i would be angry of him asking me to add something to a minetest android ripoff
07:43 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
07:45 paramat okay now pushing 453 to game ..
07:45 celeron55 that particular one seems to have something like 350 000 installs
07:46 nrzkt then for 5f8e48c63baf12930430d5d8fc07495021599e61 we have two choices: catch the exception on server side and exit. Use a ifdef SERVER and do the way i propose else do the throw for the client.
07:46 Zeno` for what?
07:46 nrzkt this crash i fixed which isn't well handled for client running embedded server: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/5f8e48c63baf12930430d5d8fc07495021599e61
07:46 Zeno` anyway, as usual for this time of day I go away for a few hours :) See you soon
07:47 Zeno` oh that one. Yes, and assert() was no good either :P
07:47 nrzkt yesterday i experienced a problem with this throw which isn't catched on server then server crashes because of this without warn me about the error
07:47 Zeno` read logs. will be back an a few hours
07:47 nrzkt i already read logs
07:47 Zeno` k :)
07:47 nrzkt then we must fix this crash. The error isn't handled on minetestserver.
07:47 paramat ugh whitespace errors, will push this later
07:48 Zeno` sorry, just rushing to get off before I get involved in yet another conversation... hehe been trying to do what I have to do for 30 minutes now
07:49 nrzkt hmmmm: your suggestion was what i was suggest and if i remember you rejected it :)
07:49 nrzkt and for network, don't touch the directory now, because some files will be added when i will work on sessions
07:50 paramat actaully, i'll fix my whitespace errors right now, continuing with push ..
07:50 nrzkt for third_party we can use a well known name: contrib/
07:50 hmmmm that sounds better
07:50 hmmmm nrzkt:  your version of the suggestion I thought you wanted to make common a separate library
07:51 hmmmm i don't agree with that part at all
07:51 hmmmm i don't want common source files to be in a separate directory either...
07:51 nrzkt yeah, no problem for this it's only a compilation comfort :). Also for common no problem for me
07:51 hmmmm making it a library would ruin whole program optimization
07:52 nrzkt can you explain me really what is the problem with libraries and optimization, i'm not very familiar with this
07:52 hmmmm there's this feature on all modern optimizing compilers called Whole Program Optimization
07:53 hmmmm basically you know how each compilation unit (.cpp file) is its own self-contained module of compiled code?
07:53 hmmmm well if it has several of these it can figure out ways to optimize the code across each file when making the resulting binary
07:53 nrzkt okay, i see
07:53 hmmmm but if it's a library this causes problems with that and it won't attempt this optimization with any calls to the common library or vice versa
07:56 nrzkt okay, thanks for the explanation
07:57 paramat (push complete)
07:59 nrzkt #2495 seems good for me. hmmmm, paramat ?
07:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2495 -- Save creative_mode and enable_damage setting for each world in world.mt by fz72
07:59 hmmmm yes, agreed
07:59 hmmmm let me look at the implementation...
08:00 sofar_ joined #minetest-dev
08:00 paramat yeah cool
08:01 hmmmm without testing, it looks good to me
08:01 hmmmm I trust that it works though
08:02 nrzkt i will test it another time to be sure, and push it if okay, agree ?
08:03 hmmmm yes
08:03 leat joined #minetest-dev
08:03 paramat what hmmmmm said
08:03 hmmmm night
08:05 est31 joined #minetest-dev
08:08 nrzkt strange; i create a branch and i have this issue: unable to find rule to make: po/timestamp/minetest.po
08:11 nrzkt i can make minetest and minetestserver targets without problems
08:14 est31 timestamp is for android, isnt it?
08:14 est31 nrzkt, have you done an android build with that repo before?
08:17 nrzkt you are right, i do it :)
08:17 nrzkt okay fixed, thanks for the tip; i have never let my android builds before :)
08:18 nrzkt sorry, not fixed
08:18 nrzkt make clean_all on android build doesn't fix the thing
08:18 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
08:19 nrzkt then, no problem i set the targets in my command, i'll look at this later
08:22 FR^2 joined #minetest-dev
08:35 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
08:37 nrzkt will push the reliable/unreliable fix for unreliable send regression to master now
08:37 nrzkt packet: TOCLIENT_ACTIVE_OBJECT_MESSAGES
08:40 paramat left #minetest-dev
09:03 Dartmouth joined #minetest-dev
09:17 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
09:43 nrzkt guys, new stats on sunday: 39 Minetest installations on android
09:43 selat joined #minetest-dev
10:05 Dartmouth joined #minetest-dev
10:06 est31 so, what is the best method to point players to the app...
10:06 est31 I want to add a message on join
10:06 nrzkt i don't know. I add a hardcoded patch which check the client version at join
10:06 nrzkt which does a sendchatmessage to client if version < 0.4.12
10:07 est31 please not to master
10:07 nrzkt no
10:07 nrzkt it's only for my server
10:07 est31 for master, I can perhaps make a patch...
10:07 nrzkt i have a separate branch with some little core additions :p
10:08 nrzkt i don't think it's a core issue. Admins must do the communication themselves
10:09 est31 yes ofc, but when lua api is extended to enable a simple lua patch, then perhaps more admins will add it.
10:09 nrzkt yes
10:09 est31 there is already register_on_joinplayer
10:09 est31 perhaps add another argument
10:09 nrzkt yes, you can use it
10:09 nrzkt you need to retrieve client version major minor and patch and compare it. Then send a message
10:11 nrzkt here is my message: "*[EN] Server Notification* You client version is outdated. We recommend you to upgrade to 0.4.12 or later.\nIf you are on Android, please use the new free and official version 'Minetest' on the Google Play Store available here:\nhttps://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=net.minetest.minetest"
10:12 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
10:13 Calinou use a short link so that it is easily typable
10:13 est31 yup
10:13 Calinou or point to minetest.net/download
10:13 est31 anyone knows a good url shortener?
10:13 Calinou ur1.ca bans tons of people :P
10:13 Calinou someone needs to update minetest.net/download anyway
10:14 est31 perhaps also with link to the F-droid repo
10:14 est31 when/if it gets there
10:14 Calinou that's why we should point users to minetest.net/download
10:15 Calinou and not Google Play
10:16 nrzkt right, but F-Droid and play store permit to update the apk without user action better for the maintenance
10:17 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
10:17 est31 F-Droid doesnt
10:17 nrzkt oh ? okay :)
10:17 est31 its like apt-get or yum
10:18 nrzkt okay
10:43 nrzkt as discussed with celeron55, i have created a topic on the forum to create a minetest_game enhanced for android users. The basic idea was to improve minetest_game, but it seems it's more reasonable to create a meta-game which include minetest_game and some others mods for our android customers. Everybody can contribute to this topic, adding ideas and argument about which mod add or not add and why. => https://forum.minet
10:43 nrzkt est.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11499
10:43 nrzkt erf... cutted: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=11499
10:47 nrzkt the goal is not to supersede minetest_game; regular clients and servers must continue to use it.
10:47 est31 "est.net"
10:48 nrzkt xD, sorry IRC cut my message :p
11:00 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
11:13 blaze joined #minetest-dev
11:25 Dartmouth joined #minetest-dev
11:36 Tablet_One joined #minetest-dev
11:38 kilbith i'm a bit tired to report 4-10 forum spams everyday, does a captcha solution can be considered ?
11:41 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:42 Calinou captcha annoys everyone
11:43 kilbith typing 4 clear characters is annoying ?
11:44 kilbith report and cleaning posts daily is.
11:45 est31 captchas when you register?
11:45 est31 not at every post
11:45 kilbith yes
11:46 Calinou you're not obliged to report, we eventually notice it :P
11:46 Calinou est31, some users do fail to solve captchas
11:46 Calinou IMO they're a thing of yesterday
11:46 est31 so what do you think is the thing of today?
11:47 kilbith the current caretakers won't be eternally present to monitorize closely the forum - some day it can be drowned by spams
11:48 kilbith not all captchas are equals, some are very hard to decrypt but some not
11:53 kilbith or as another solution, force copying a short phrase in a field
11:54 kilbith well, all that is not painful
12:04 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
12:08 chchjesus joined #minetest-dev
12:22 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
12:45 Dartmouth joined #minetest-dev
12:51 sfan5 ~tell Zeno` the 4 function thing was just an example but it might be exactly that case in the future when somebody works in game.cpp
12:51 ShadowBot sfan5: O.K.
12:54 leat joined #minetest-dev
13:00 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
13:02 Zeno` est31, I have no idea what to make of #2509
13:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2509 -- full version of a client is empty
13:03 nrzkt i'm on it Zeno`
13:03 est31 Zeno`,
13:03 est31 man wrong button
13:03 est31 sry
13:03 Zeno` you are reporting a bug in your own PR that hasn't even been merged?
13:03 est31 its a bug with an internal variable
13:03 est31 but, yes.
13:03 Zeno` :/
13:04 est31 nerzhul wanted it for tracking
13:04 est31 I've pmed it to him first
13:04 nrzkt he points a bug :)
13:04 Zeno` nrzkt, est31, umm why? Why not just fix the PR?!
13:04 est31 because the PR doesnt touch that code
13:04 est31 it only reads it
13:05 Zeno` that's not clear in the issue
13:05 est31 its obviously a bug
13:05 nrzkt Zeno` it's not a PR bug Zeno` :p it's a single bug.
13:05 Zeno` yeah I see that now but the issue is confusing
13:06 est31 sry for that
13:06 nrzkt no problem, i take it :p look at the PR mention in PM :p
13:06 Zeno` ok, onto the second question. Why is the full client version needed by Lua?
13:06 est31 yes
13:07 est31 Zeno`, I want it because I want to enable server owners to show a nice "you have an old version" message. Its totally their choice, and they have to code the function themselves, but I added the functionality
13:07 Zeno` I think you'll have a lot of difficulty getting that accepted
13:08 est31 and why full version ... why do something incompletely
13:08 est31 why?
13:09 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1689 as an example
13:10 nrzkt maybe a dedicated Lua call which gets the playername as parameter and return the client versions is better
13:10 nrzkt this call can be trigger by the original on_register
13:13 nrzkt i push the 2509 fix now
13:15 est31 ok, what about sending the "fork"'s name too?
13:15 Zeno` est31, it already shows that
13:15 est31 where
13:15 Zeno` when you connect if your client is older than the server version it gives some warning
13:16 Zeno` something like "warning this server uses ******* but your client is old and may not support all features"
13:17 selat joined #minetest-dev
13:17 est31 aha
13:21 srifqi joined #minetest-dev
13:21 est31 ok building 0.4.10 and checking that
13:23 est31 connecting with 0.4.10 gave me no such message
13:23 est31 to 0.4.12
13:24 Zeno` it gives it to you in the status text
13:24 Zeno` it'll look like a chat command
13:24 Zeno` chat message*
13:26 est31 no nothing
13:27 nrzkt Zeno` there is no message. My wife uses a 0.4.11 on my 0.4.12 server, no message
13:28 srifqi Zeno`, sorry, but what do you mean? (about: #2480) another dialog?
13:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2480 -- Add mg spflags in dlg create world by srifqi
13:28 srifqi there is no more room
13:28 srifqi have you idea?
13:29 est31 hm on 0.4.3, you can't enter into formspecs
13:30 est31 ha! 0.4.4 has no compat to 0.4.12
13:30 est31 but error
13:30 Zeno` srifqi, not sure actually.  A dropdown with with checkboxes would be idea but can't do that :(
13:31 nrzkt ping Zeno` #2506 #2429 and #2443
13:31 srifqi Zeno`, yes, there is no checkboxes in dropdown, any other idea?
13:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2506 -- Server::step throw is never catched in minetestserver by nerzhul
13:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2429 -- Update credits by Zeno-
13:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2443 -- Make MutexedQueue use std::deque instead of using a std::list member by nerzhul
13:32 est31 0.4.6 has assert errors
13:33 Calinou the protocol did not change between 0.4.11 and 0.4.12
13:34 Zeno` srifqi, I guess what I am saying is that if the person creating the world knows what flags to add in the new text edit your PR creates then they are 99% likely to know how to manually add them anyway
13:35 srifqi so, we need something like helper?
13:36 est31 ok, with 0.4.8 I was abled to generate an error
13:38 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob​/814e55597d3c3c1711825366d4345cee48d8fb87​/src/network/serverpackethandler.cpp#L692
13:38 est31 ^ for reference
13:40 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
13:41 est31 so, nrzkt perhaps your method approach is better than my param approach... but I'll wait for community to input on this
13:42 est31 before I invest more time
13:44 nrzkt no problem :)
13:48 est31 Zeno`, I think part of the criticism was that ShadowNinja suggested to do feature detection by version and not by feature. Thats a very bad thing. User agent strings have shown us where this had led to. However I don't think that this should disable the API completely. after all, mods can already now parse core.get_server_status()
13:56 AnotherBrick joined #minetest-dev
13:56 Zeno` " I want it because I want to enable server owners to show a nice "you have an old version" message. Its totally their choice"
13:56 Zeno` do it in the engine then, rather than using Lua?
13:57 est31 lua allows for a wide variety of options
13:57 est31 and mods can exploit them all
13:58 Zeno` what's the PR again?
13:59 est31 #2508
13:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2508 -- Pass version information to joinplayer callback by est31
13:59 Zeno` yes, but that does the same thing as SN's patch did (in effect)
13:59 est31 one is for the server, one for clients, isn'T it?
14:00 est31 (exploit in a positive sense ofc, for the record)
14:00 Zeno` I must be confused then... there is no client side scripting (well, there is, but there isn't supposed to be)
14:01 nrzkt right. SN => server est => client
14:01 est31 ShadowNinja's patch allows to fetch the version of the server. mine allows to fetch the version of the client.
14:01 Zeno` yeah ok, I see
14:02 Zeno` the same arguments may apply though
14:02 Zeno` (not that I agree with all the arguments presented)
14:04 est31 minetest is no kindergarden for mods to prevent them from doing bad things
14:05 est31 we don't even check identation
14:05 est31 I agree though that the situations of these two PRs are similar
14:06 est31 the fork argument clearly applies
14:06 Zeno` yep
14:06 Zeno` anyway, the PR is new so a day or so of discussion cannot hurt
14:07 Zeno` let's discuss #2462
14:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2462 -- Configurable automatic texture scaling and filtering at load time. by Warr1024
14:07 est31 but the question is: do you want to privilege fork users, who most times use an outdated and ad laden fork which lowers reputation, or do you want to privilege server owners
14:07 est31 agreed Zeno`.
14:08 Zeno` est31, I don't know about that. Which is why I'd like to think more and hear some more opinions. At the moment I'm ambivalent
14:08 Zeno` so... 2462...
14:08 Zeno` I tested it when I made my comment and could see no issues (it looked good on screen -- to me -- actually)
14:09 est31 it should probably be done with setDefaults
14:10 est31 and default off, in mine opinion, after all its a blocky game :)
14:10 Zeno` yeah
14:10 Zeno` so that needs to be added
14:10 est31 not that its looking good
14:10 nrzkt agree for 2462
14:11 est31 (add second not somewhere)
14:12 Zeno` ok, assume I set the default value for "texture_clean_transparent" (if I'm in a good mood), merge?
14:13 Zeno` ugh... I will add a comment
14:13 Zeno` I can't be bothered doing that hehe
14:13 nrzkt i don't find any issue on this PR and it's a good improvement. but don't forget default value for texture_clean_transparent and texture_min_size in defaultsettings.cpp
14:15 Zeno` nrzkt, those are the comments I just added to the PR :P
14:15 nrzkt a oh, my page wasn't up to date :)
14:18 Zeno` 2506 looks better now :)  well, apart from the Jenkins failing
14:18 nrzkt android makefile shit
14:18 nrzkt ndroid NDK: ERROR:jni/Android.mk:ssl: LOCAL_SRC_FILES points to a missing file
14:18 Zeno` ask Jenkins to fix the make file!
14:18 Zeno` heh
14:18 nrzkt this error occurs some times...
14:18 nrzkt not only on jenkins, also on my computer
14:19 Zeno` smae with on mine
14:19 Zeno` it's very irritating
14:19 est31 for i in 1 2 3 do make && break; done
14:19 est31 ugly way of "solving" it
14:19 nrzkt xD
14:19 Zeno` maybe the whole makefile can be rewritten one day
14:19 Zeno` but I don't think I want to do that
14:20 nrzkt yes, i started. But i stopped because it's boring :p
14:20 Zeno` it's all too hacky and I get annoyed looked at it lol
14:20 Zeno` yes, and boring lol
14:20 est31 the -j JOBS setup is wrong too
14:20 nrzkt the first thing will be translate all the commands to cmake calls
14:20 est31 make has an own jobserver for parallelism, you dont need to handle it yourself
14:21 nrzkt right. I will remove this ugly hack this afternoon. This override my freebsd make and it's useless
14:22 est31 and I'm off
14:22 est31 cya
14:22 Zeno` bye :)
14:22 Zeno` sleep"?
14:23 nrzkt then, okay for 2506 N
14:23 nrzkt ?
14:25 Zeno` as far as I can see, yes
14:25 Zeno` looks fine to me
14:25 nrzkt thanks
14:26 nrzkt pushed
14:29 nrzkt #2471 seems good for me, Zeno`, hmmmm ?
14:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2471 -- Standalone bundle for OSX (w/ dependencies!) by neoascetic
14:29 nrzkt as far i know about Mac OSX (last use on mavericks) this is good
14:31 Zeno` yeah I don't understand enough about that one
14:31 Zeno` but it's a bit like translations
14:31 Zeno` sometimes I guess we have to trust our users if we can't understand (for translations) or test (on an OS we don't have)
14:32 Zeno` so as long as it does not break any other builds I'm fine with it
14:32 nrzkt on this PR all paths are correct
14:32 nrzkt and the modification affects only apple products
14:33 Zeno` (I haven't tested it, but I don't see anything obviously wrong)
14:33 Zeno` yep, well I guess it's a case of merge then
14:33 Zeno` I can't test and I don't know any other core dev using OSX either
14:34 Zeno` so, yeah
14:34 Zeno` as long as it only affects osx I would agree to merge.  I meant to raise this PR myself actually
14:37 nrzkt i push it now
14:37 Zeno` k
14:48 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
14:48 nrzkt i will remove the ugly hack for android build
14:48 nrzkt the -j HACK
15:09 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
15:13 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
15:15 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
15:23 hmmmm yeah 2471 looks good
15:24 hmmmm but i don't know if it is good unless i were to install mac os x and test it
15:24 hmmmm :/
15:24 hmmmm I'd have a much higher level of confidence about commits if we had better unit testing, but I'm not sure how to unit test over half the stuff committed
15:25 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
15:25 nrzkt right, this is difficult to add so more unit tests on each platform :(
15:26 hmmmm no, it's just hard in general
15:26 hmmmm how are you supposed to unit test, say, a change to the inventory code?
15:26 hmmmm I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to add autoit scripts to simulate GUI navigation like a user might actually do
15:27 nrzkt you need to test the output result of a classic modification into the inventory
15:27 nrzkt like stacking or destacking items
15:27 hmmmm oh I mean from the GUI point of view
15:28 hmmmm I'm not actually sure, I was just using the android inventory crash bug as an example
15:30 nrzkt i don't experience this problem on my phone, can you give me more information to reproduce it ?
15:30 hmmmm ahh
15:30 hmmmm I was under the impression it was a reliable failure
15:31 hmmmm this was just a report I heard from tablet_one in the channel.  he seems to be testing the android builds a fair bit which is great
15:33 hmmmm [10:48 AM] <nrzkt> i will remove the ugly hack for android build   what is this?
15:33 nrzkt android Makefile add -j <X> instead of letting the user do it.
15:34 hmmmm oh that's sort of dumb
15:34 nrzkt https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/94b3950958c643c39c60b382c85f833593a718d0
15:34 hmmmm i wouldn't call it a hack, though
15:34 nrzkt not really a hack but i haven't any best translation for my own words :p
15:34 hmmmm multithreaded make might result in errors so it's always best to keep it optional
15:35 sfan5 ^
15:35 nrzkt in fact, make -j4 release will do the work properly. Why the makefile want to override my options ? Parallelise is the job of the developper not the makefile :(
15:37 nrzkt it was on the original sapier's file in fact
15:37 MinetestForFun_ joined #minetest-dev
15:39 Calinou make -j$(grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo)
15:39 Calinou automatic detection :)
15:39 nrzkt and if i don't want to use all my CPU because i'm doing something else ? i don't have choice
15:40 Calinou then use arithmetics to substract 1 thread
15:40 nrzkt sorry but this mustn't be done by makefile.
15:42 hmmmm well, I agree with removing -j, but I wish people would have a chance to discuss it like this before it got pushed to upstream
15:43 hmmmm and possibly get approval from at least 2 core developers
15:44 nrzkt this is a trivial change, and i'm the main android packager atm
15:44 nrzkt and it was discussed briefly and pointer by est31
15:44 nrzkt pointed*
15:45 Zeno` In all fairness I was the one who spent over a week fixing the Android bugs
15:45 nrzkt thanks you, hopefully you permit this release :)
15:45 Zeno` Am I the main packager? No. Did I fix the bugs? Yes
15:45 nrzkt you are the main debuguer :D
15:46 Zeno` 2 weeks ago Android build did not display text
15:46 Zeno` that's not a debugging issue :/
15:46 Zeno` nobody cared that Android did not display text
15:47 nrzkt somes parts of our code are abandonned :s like irrlicht engine, lightning issues... :(
15:47 Zeno` So, sorry, I find your comment a bit offensive
15:48 Zeno` I asked for help even... but nobody even offered or could care to look
15:48 nrzkt No problem Zeno`, i understand. I know you use many time to find the Android bugs which permit to have a good Android release (with cherry pick on master)
15:48 hmmmm I'd help but I don't even have an android device :(
15:49 nrzkt you can make a IOS build then ? :D
15:50 proller joined #minetest-dev
15:50 hmmmm I'm not really interested in mobile devices at all
15:50 nrzkt i was laughing :)
15:51 nrzkt https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/issues/2507#issuecomment-82428061 ...
15:52 nrzkt user wants us to recover from LuaError due to a Lua coding error...
15:52 hmmmm it's definitely possible and, if done, needs to be a server option
15:53 hmmmm one that's disabled by default
15:53 nrzkt if a mod trigger a null pointer exception we need to recover from it ? This could trigger unexpected effects
15:53 hmmmm you mean nil access exception?  it's a LuaError
15:53 nrzkt and this permits modder to do code with many problems
15:54 hmmmm absolutely not, if you make it optional and disabled by default
15:54 nrzkt yes, i was talking about that
15:54 nrzkt it's like having a great and ugly while(true) { try { runServer(); } catch (std::exception e) {} };
15:54 hmmmm the people who want their server to ignore the error (which in 99% of cases will be minor and pretty much irrelevant) and the vast majority of other users will still see the problem when minetest crashes
15:55 hmmmm i can see server owners with one errant mod that has one bug in very rare circumstances wanting this functionality
15:55 hmmmm the entire thing doesn't need to go down because of one sandboxed script
15:56 hmmmm hrmm
15:57 hmmmm maybe we can try to guess which mod caused the crash and dynamically unload it
15:57 nrzkt i understand the uptime issue, i agree with it, but mods bugs cannot be found easily if they are not shown to server administrators, who looks debug.txt and send reports to modders ?
15:57 hmmmm that'd be difficult but i'd argue an ideal solution
15:57 hmmmm maybe these kinds of errors should be added to the syslog in addition to debug.txt
15:57 nrzkt and if the recoverable situation generate some missing and mandatory code for a mod which modify the player ?
15:58 nrzkt unrecoverable*
15:58 hmmmm that's a risk the people enabling this would have to understand
15:59 nrzkt many mods users wants working mods, not mods which can corrupt datas :s
15:59 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
15:59 hmmmm want to just try it?  if this causes problems we can just remove the script recover feature later on
15:59 hmmmm I'm willing to bet it's fine in 99% of cases, though
15:59 nrzkt personnaly i don't want to talk with the 1% which have problems if you do it :p
16:00 hmmmm FWIW there's also ignore_world_load_errors
16:01 hmmmm so it's not like ignoring some non-fatal errors is unprecedented
16:01 nrzkt exact... strange thing too, we can corrupt the map with this, no ? if you want to add the switch, i think it's better to let server trigger their errors and if admins wants to turn of the thing, they must be careful and do it
16:01 nrzkt turn off*
16:02 hmmmm you must've misunderstood me earlier
16:02 hmmmm I'm saying this would need to be an option, that is disabled by default
16:02 hmmmm server owners would need to explicitly enable it on their own and be mindful of the risks involved
16:02 nrzkt oh sorry :) i understand the other
16:02 nrzkt in that case i agree then, you can make the modification if you want :)
16:06 nrzkt there are many issues to solve and many PR to check. hmmmm, Zeno` i need a last review with #2443
16:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2443 -- Make MutexedQueue use std::deque instead of using a std::list member by nerzhul
16:06 hmmmm i thought this was merged already
16:06 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
16:07 nrzkt no, because no other core dev agreed, and it's a modification on a sensible object. If you agree i push it :)
16:07 hmmmm hmm I don't get how those changes could cause synchronization bugs
16:09 hmmmm oh nvm didn't read the comments very well
16:09 hmmmm yeah it looks good
16:09 hmmmm i don't understand why people use std::list so much.  it's a very slow data structure.
16:10 nrzkt yes, and i changed many std::list to better std::vector or std::queue
16:10 hmmmm http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5425/An​-In-Depth-Study-of-the-STL-Deque-Container
16:11 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
16:11 nrzkt and as i noticed this improved server performance many times, now i can use nuke mode without any lag
16:11 nrzkt ok i push it to master then
16:12 nrzkt i do a last local test and push
16:13 nrzkt Google now uses PEGI, i answered their form and we are classified as 3+
16:20 nrzkt perfect. Now pushing
16:21 Calinou heh, Minecraft is 7+
16:21 Calinou we are beating them!
16:21 nrzkt i don't know why, we have no drugs, ni violence, no terrorists (except TNT users)
16:37 SopaXorzTaker joined #minetest-dev
16:46 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
16:56 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
16:57 SopaXorzTaker joined #minetest-dev
17:05 celeron55 i think the in-game chat and player-made creations make the age limit higher
17:06 celeron55 where did you get this information?
17:26 VanessaE actually, ESRB rates Minecraft as "E 10+"
17:26 VanessaE http://www.esrb.org/ratings/sy​nopsis.jsp?Certificate=100396
17:37 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
17:40 Calinou it's the equivalent of PEGI's 7+
17:46 Robert_Zenz joined #minetest-dev
17:51 disablec1 joined #minetest-dev
18:00 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
18:05 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
18:12 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
18:16 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
18:20 Krock joined #minetest-dev
18:34 DFeniks joined #minetest-dev
18:37 fz72 joined #minetest-dev
18:39 sfan5 *sigh*
18:39 sfan5 this is exactly why you should not allow users to choose things they'll not want
18:39 sfan5 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=172567#p172567
18:39 sfan5 tl;dr "I get the red screen. The edges are messed up too." >Irrlicht Software Driver 1.0
18:43 Krock oh. he uses the irrlicht driver, that's why it looks to... special xD
18:44 Calinou we can remove drivers other than OpenGL, sfan5
18:44 Calinou even ezQuake removed the software driver :P
18:44 sfan5 ofc we can
18:44 sfan5 the question is why did/do we allow the user to select the software driver in the first place?
18:45 Krock beside to the burningsvideo it's the only driver that works on every graphic card
18:46 Calinou 99,5 % of our user base has working 3D acceleration
18:46 Krock and 99.999% supports opengl
18:46 Calinou I can play Minetest smoothly with Nouveau now
18:46 Calinou it has evolved
18:46 sfan5 hm
18:46 sfan5 Krock: your sentence sounds incorrect while it's completly correct
18:46 sfan5 burningsvideo has nothing to do with video cards though
18:46 sfan5 it just renders the thing
18:46 Krock same with irrlicht's driver
18:46 sfan5 displaying it is the job of the os
19:17 fz72 joined #minetest-dev
19:21 ShadowNinja sfan5: build-cleanup updated, and the man page looks much nicer now :-).  I also combined the largely duplicate man pages and added the --worldname option.
19:21 ShadowNinja I should also make --migrate not require --server, but I'll do that seperately.
19:22 ShadowNinja I addressed all your comments except the endif() one, which I prefer as-is.
19:23 ShadowNinja (And the RUN_IN_PLACE one)
19:29 ShadowNinja sfan5: Good to merge now?
19:30 sfan5 i haven't looked at it again
19:52 ElectronLibre joined #minetest-dev
19:56 ShadowNinja nrzkt: Your server's 503ing.
19:58 rubenwardy sfan5, I remember a case where a user had to use software renderers as they had no other choice
19:59 nrzkt i know ShadowNinja, i'm migrating apache, you need something ?
20:00 ShadowNinja nrzkt: No, I was just checking a build.
20:00 sfan5 rubenwardy: i wouldn't disable software drivers, just not have them in the menu
20:00 sfan5 rubenwardy: also mesa has a way better software driver than irrlicht
20:00 rubenwardy That's true
20:01 nrzkt i need to finish PHP compilation in ~ 20 min to repair my migration from PHP 5.4 to 5.6 on FreeBSD but my repository decided to recompile every packet instead of mod_php5.6 only :( then the varnish cache is the only available atm
20:02 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
20:05 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
20:15 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
20:24 ShadowNinja I'm getting this when attempting to load the server list now: *** Error in `bin/minetest': malloc(): memory corruption (fast): 0x00007fb648120f60 ***
20:24 ShadowNinja The local list segfaults instead.
20:25 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
20:26 ShadowNinja Hmmm, it's somehow an issue with my branch.
20:27 ShadowNinja Don'tcha love obscure bugs that show up in things that you didn't touch? </sarcasm>
20:29 est31 joined #minetest-dev
20:30 ShadowNinja est31: Does https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2491 lower the loading menu clouds FPS?
20:31 est31 no, it increases them
20:31 ShadowNinja est31: O.K., good.
20:32 est31 from [never during that specific phase] to [all 100ms when a whole percent of progress has been made]
20:32 est31 I didn't know how the porting time functions behave e.g. on windows
20:32 est31 and didnt want to call it ~10k times
20:32 est31 so I only call it 100 times
20:33 est31 (then better "all 100 ms" could have been implemented)
20:33 est31 really best would be however to have different threads
20:34 est31 but im not that good at irrlicht, and doubt that it supports the multithreaded access.
20:34 ShadowNinja est31: Hmmm, you should use an FPS limiter and use wanted_fps.
20:34 est31 fps is never larger than 10
20:34 ShadowNinja Yes, it seems like the client loading thread is the main thread.
20:49 Tablet_One joined #minetest-dev
20:58 ShadowNinja Apparently my distros JSONCPP is the problem.
21:00 sfan5 i think we did not use linking systemd-wide jsoncpp because of that exact cause
21:00 sfan5 s/cause/problem/
21:05 est31 what systemd has swallowed jsoncpp too
21:08 est31 btw ShadowNinja satisfied with #2482 ?
21:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2482 -- Fix bug that disabled game-based minetest.conf default setting by est31
21:09 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
21:14 ShadowNinja est31: Yep.
21:22 nrzkt ShadowNinja: jenkins is back
21:23 nrzkt Monday stats on Google play Store: 53 installations
21:28 ElectronLibre left #minetest-dev
21:29 nrzkt est31: #2490 is good ? if you can comment the PR i can't understand german
21:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2490 -- Update and complete German translation and fix mistakes (second try) by Wuzzy2
21:30 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
21:38 ShadowNinja sfan5: I have this patch for the master server.  Look O.K?  http://sprunge.us/hVMW?diff
21:45 ShadowNinja sfan5: And this too: http://sprunge.us/YWRg
21:48 ShadowNinja Above with ping tweaked: http://sprunge.us/WLEe?diff
21:48 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
21:51 ShadowNinja Hmmm, I'll also make it add a penalty for servers with over, say, 16 players, because: 1. It'll start getting laggy with that many.  2. Other servers should get a chance, the top 5 shouldn't have half of the users.
22:00 ShadowNinja http://sprunge.us/IXFj?diff
22:00 ShadowNinja Might remove that guest penalty.
22:03 Sokomine it is confusing that the order servers in the list are shown is constantly changing. and some very good servers are at the bottom, while crowded chaotic ones where building is rather pointless do get top positions
22:03 Sokomine i've also wished for an ignore option for some very few servers
22:03 VanessaE Sokomine: a player rating option added to servers.minetest.net would help that
22:04 VanessaE (but that comes with its own problems like ballot stuffing)
22:04 est31 yup
22:04 Sokomine yes. rating isn't easy either
22:05 ShadowNinja Rating requires a major change in the server list's backend.
22:05 Sokomine you'd get lots of excited kids who think that a pile of bones around spawn is all there could ever be...
22:05 VanessaE ShadowNinja: that too.
22:05 ShadowNinja It'll have to use an SQL database or so to store the servers persistently.
22:06 ShadowNinja Sokomine: I've set it so that more than 16 clients is not beneficial to your score.
22:06 est31 to start with, servers need unique way to identify them
22:07 ShadowNinja est31: IP & port is used currently.
22:07 VanessaE est31: hash the server's name field and IP?
22:07 est31 both name and ip can change
22:08 est31 best is we also do something that might work in the future with encryption
22:08 VanessaE true, but I wouldn't think they'd change particularly often
22:08 Sokomine i've always wished for a tiny picture of the server (or its spawn) provided by the server so that they can be identified more easily
22:08 VanessaE besides, penalize a server that uses dynamic IPs or where they can't make up their mind for their name
22:08 ShadowNinja This discussion should probably go to #minetest.
22:08 VanessaE (i.e. always start with a ranking of 0 or neutral or some such)
22:09 Sokomine admittedly, a local blacklist is rarely needed. it's just sometimes that servers do not match up to expectations, and expectations differ so much that a particular server might not fit at all
22:10 Sokomine shadowninja: good idea
22:10 VanessaE ShadowNinja: no real point to move the conversation if there's nothing else being discussed here :P
22:11 est31 most players dont scroll
22:11 est31 (so yes)
22:11 VanessaE ok ok #minetest
22:13 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
22:19 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
22:22 vlad_ joined #minetest-dev
22:23 vlad_ left #minetest-dev
22:44 ShadowNinja Pushing master-server IPv6 support.
22:53 proller joined #minetest-dev
23:24 Ritchie joined #minetest-dev
23:42 proller joined #minetest-dev

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext