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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-03-14

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Time Nick Message
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02:43 devmarth http://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=7&t=11472
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05:26 paramat now pushing #2487
05:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2487 -- mg_decoration.cpp: Increase max_y to top of voxelmanip volume by paramat
05:26 hmmmm ohh you don't want to do that
05:28 hmmmm in fact the code that was there has a bit of a problem for decorations > 16 nodes high
05:29 paramat lol
05:30 paramat yeah trees disappear at certain altitudes
05:30 paramat the mapblock shell is surely there to be used to enable <16 nodes high trees?
05:31 hmmmm better than cut-off trees
05:32 paramat the PR will remove any decoration that exceeds the voxelmanip volums, so no cutoffs
05:32 paramat *volume
05:32 hmmmm well the idea was to have this handled by the cutoff placer
05:33 hmmmm so if they may potentially not fit, let the decoration get placed from the cutoff queue
05:33 paramat easier to just use the vm volume we already have?
05:33 hmmmm but i guess that's not valid anymore since it's been deactivated
05:34 paramat all lua mapgens rely on using the full vm volume for trees
05:34 paramat its basic mapgen =)
05:34 hmmmm yeah actually looking at it closer that is valid.
05:35 paramat phew cool
05:35 hmmmm probably a better idea to use mg->vm.MaxEdge.Y instead of MAP_BLOCKSIZE - 1
05:35 paramat ah okay, will do that
05:35 hmmmm remove height, remove max_y, just simplify that into:
05:36 hmmmm if (y + getHeight() >= mg->vm.MaxEdge.Y) { ...
05:36 hmmmm erm... i mean
05:36 hmmmm if (y + getHeight() >= mg->vm->m_area.MaxEdge.Y) { ...
05:38 paramat how about y + getHeight + 1 > .. ? slower?
05:40 paramat yeah i'll add the +1 since it's in the current code
05:41 hmmmm technically speaking it is one less operation
05:42 hmmmm yes, y + getHeight + 1 is minutely slower
05:42 paramat BTW i plan to remove mgv6 lua blob code and replace with 'register blob ore', the same definitions as used in v5 and v7
05:42 paramat v6 blob code is slow
05:42 hmmmm v6 has blobs?
05:42 hmmmm sand and gravel?  aren't those just cuboids?
05:42 paramat yeah i meant cuboids
05:43 hmmmm didn't realize they were slow but yeah... please do get rid of those
05:43 hmmmm I never did get a chance to make use of the blob and vein ores
05:43 paramat then replace v6 lua decorations with c++ decorations
05:43 hmmmm well
05:43 hmmmm maybe
05:43 hmmmm I never did that because I have concerns about how good the decorations work
05:43 hmmmm for example, I can't seem to get the distribution of cacti correct
05:44 paramat the lua decos place stuff in square formations, and use an exponential for density
05:44 hmmmm in any case, the clay ore should be blob
05:45 paramat see https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=172555#p172555 and following post, horrible
05:46 paramat i can do better with c++ decos
05:50 paramat v6addDirtGravelBlobs places 500 blobs twice! (they're not lua blobs, didn't mean that)
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05:56 paramat yes v6 clay is already the new blob ore, did that a while ago
06:05 paramat so v6 has dirt/gravel cubes underground. i was planning to replace those with the blob ore definitions used in v5 and v7, but those also have sand blobs. is adding sand blobs to v6 okay for the sake of consistency across all 3 mapgens?
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06:07 hmmmm you mean the squareness?
06:07 hmmmm like how the cactuses generate in tight groupings
06:10 hmmmm the pseudorandom really sucks, yeah.. i want to add a better pseudorandom
06:12 paramat yeah the squareness seen from above, and the cacti groups. indeed seems we need better PR
06:12 hmmmm it's a pseudorandom problem, not a schematics problem right?
06:13 paramat correct
06:13 hmmmm this could get solved by switching to PCG
06:14 paramat v6 lua PR code places cacti, flowers, papyrus, grasses .. slowly
06:14 paramat i expect big speed gain
06:14 hmmmm wait, huh?
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06:14 hmmmm oh you mean by using the stuff in mapgen.lua
06:15 hmmmm yeah, like I said, I never replaced it because I never was able to get the density of decorations quite right
06:15 hmmmm it's something that could get fixed by playing with the noise params enough
06:15 hmmmm i'm almost sure it's not necessary to use exponents when calculating density
06:15 paramat yeah thats my job =P
06:16 paramat agreed, no exponent needed
06:17 hmmmm though, it is possible to make lua-defined functions really fast through some basic self-modifying code and a polynomial parser, it'd be too platform dependent
06:17 hmmmm if we decide we don't really care for anything apart from x86, x64, ARM, and PPA, it's doable
06:18 hmmmm e.g. calculate "2*noise^3+3"
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06:20 paramat here's the thread and link for my initial work on a set of biomes https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/459
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06:21 hmmmm the .mts files are broken??
06:21 hmmmm was not aware of any problems after I fixed the last thing
06:42 hmmmm i forgot all my statistics knowledge :(  it's one of those things where you have to use it or lose it
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09:59 Zeno` #2489
09:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2489 -- Disable double-click -> ESC translation for main menu by Zeno-
10:03 Zeno` after consideration and testing for a week I think disabling the behaviour for all formspecs, instead of just the main menu, was a usability mistake
10:04 Krock when is m_remap_dbl_click = false? I can't see the use of that variable
10:04 Krock whoops nvm
10:04 Zeno` in the member func... :)
10:05 Zeno` my last patch disabled the behaviour for all formspecs
10:05 Zeno` which is what I think the mistake was (after spending the day playing the game instead of thinking about it hehe)
10:07 Krock Disabling the exit-by-double-click on the mainmenu is okay but I personally don't care about in-game formspecs
10:08 Zeno` yeah I thought I didn't as well
10:08 Zeno` currently in master it's disabled for all formspecs; let me find my previous commit
10:08 Krock e74b8da5
10:08 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/e74b8da54e4443773404f2642916fd2f2b7f625e   <-- that is what I am changing
10:09 Zeno` yep
10:09 Krock ninja'd
10:09 Krock I'm fine with the current master :)
10:10 Zeno` Yeah, it's not a huge back-pedal though... it still remains disabled for main menu
10:10 Zeno` It's also a bit more flexible
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10:45 sfan5 x.x.x.x - - [14/Mar/2015:10:44:17 +0000] "GET /list?proto_version_min=13&proto_version_max=24 HTTP/1.1" 200
10:45 sfan5 why exactly is this sent w/ the request?
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11:01 Krock compatibility checks.
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12:16 nrzkt do we have a contact@minetest.net address ?
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12:19 neoascetic nrzkt let's discuss #2485? :)
12:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2485 -- Simplify custom games packaging by neoascetic
12:20 nrzkt i listen to you ? :)
12:20 neoascetic you are saying "It could be good, but will include all games" like this is something bad :)
12:21 nrzkt yeah, for the regular packaging it's bad
12:21 neoascetic but why?
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12:23 neoascetic If you going to create release, then you anyway should double-check everything
12:23 nrzkt my idea is a release must be proper and doesn't get wrong files automaticly
12:25 neoascetic probably then we should have "make release" target?
12:28 Zeno` release is not a target?
12:29 neoascetic there is "package", but I do not see a "release" targe
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12:37 neoascetic Maybe I am annoying, but, again, what with #2471? :)
12:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2471 -- Standalone bundle for OSX (w/ dependencies!) by neoascetic
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12:48 Zeno` will merge #2489 in 30 minutes or so (trivial change)
12:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2489 -- Disable double-click -> ESC translation for main menu by Zeno-
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13:20 Zeno` no objections?
13:23 nrzkt if it's possible to move the 3e gui* files to client this can be good, because it's the only PR which modify theses files (and don't forget android.mk :p)
13:23 nrzkt 3e -> 3
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13:32 est31 sfan5, it was sent for future-proof-ness when a breaking network change happens: I've added the feature on the public serverlist that clients display non-compatible servers as such. Now, if most servers are newer version, we might remove them from the serverlist in the future. But perhaps this can be done via the user agent too ... so I agree to a removal of that.
13:38 nrzkt ok, guys, i finished the play store work. I sent the app to validation process :)
13:38 est31 wow good
13:39 est31 nrzkt, I have seen that automated build checks aren't shown when logged out
13:39 est31 perhaps make it so that everybody sees it?
13:39 nrzkt logged out from what ?
13:39 est31 github
13:39 nrzkt it's a github feature then, not mine :p
13:42 Zeno` what is play store?
13:43 Zeno` oh, the android thing
13:45 Zeno` I am not moving the gui* files yet. Not until I decide whether or not to raise the subject of replacing formspecs :P
13:45 est31 the question is: what should they be replaced with
13:46 Zeno` est31, well, that is to be established :)
13:47 Zeno` nrzkt, why oh why did you name /src/network/packethandlers/client.cpp (and .h) the same as other files? :(
13:48 Zeno` I know they're distinct because of their path, but it can get confusing
13:48 sfan5 est31: the server list doesn't need to know which protocols are supported, the client should check whether servers are supported
13:49 est31 sfan5, as I said, I agree to a removal.
13:49 est31 it was only to keep all options open in the future
13:50 est31 sfan5, do you also do user agent statistics?
13:50 sfan5 yes
13:50 est31 would be interesting in order to get version distribution
13:50 sfan5 also: "Minetest/gUnknown (Linux/3.4.5 armv7l)"
13:51 sfan5 why does the android version not send the version if there is no git hash?
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13:51 sfan5 est31: i'll maybe make a new one
13:51 est31 ?
13:52 est31 is there an old one somewhere?
13:52 sfan5 yes
13:52 nrzkt i will change this after, network/clientpackethandlers.cpp
13:52 sfan5 est31: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/se​rverlist_stats_2014-09-2014.txt
13:52 nrzkt Zeno` then you are right :)
13:53 nrzkt thanks sfa5
13:53 nrzkt sfan5*
13:53 sfan5 <sfan5> why does the android version not send the version if there is no git hash?
13:53 sfan5 do you know why, nrzkt?
13:54 nrzkt because this doesn't use cmake i think
13:54 Zeno` it most certainly does not use camke
13:54 Zeno` cmake*
13:54 sfan5 correct
13:54 est31 is this in latest master?
13:54 sfan5 it uses it's own huge makefile
13:54 sfan5 est31: what?
13:55 est31 that it doesnt send the version info
13:55 sfan5 yes
13:55 nrzkt yes, sfan5, i will improve it and try to include it in our common build but this take a lot of time :)
13:55 sfan5 est31: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/build/android/Makefile#L746
13:55 sfan5 est31: if it can't determine the version for some reason it sets it to gUnknown
13:56 est31 sfan5, i guess then its dependent on the cwd?
13:57 sfan5 no idea
13:57 sfan5 i don't know how that makefile thing works
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13:58 sfan5 haha
13:59 sfan5 95.130.x.x - - [07/Mar/2015:00:45:54 +0000] "GET /list HTTP/1.1" 200 22129 "http://servers.minetest.net/" "W3C standards are important. Stop fucking obsessing over user-agent already." "-"
14:00 est31 lol
14:00 est31 a proxy?
14:00 sfan5 ?
14:00 est31 either they changed src
14:01 est31 or they made a proxy
14:01 sfan5 no
14:01 sfan5 it's a browser
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14:01 est31 or that
14:01 sfan5 minetest does not send <that http header with the url it came from>
14:02 est31 refferer
14:02 sfan5 there is "http://servers.minetest.net/" though
14:02 sfan5 yes, referer
14:02 est31 sfan5,  there is this: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/587167e940228e52e5df5e4b5e​cb7b5ff1ea1a7b/src/version.cpp#L29
14:02 est31 so as it seems, the githash can be unset too
14:02 est31 when not known
14:03 sfan5 it should be unset then
14:04 est31 yes
14:05 est31 you want to do it or me?
14:05 nrzkt then because android is our client, i think a big communication process must be done to our server admins to talk to their users to tell us to switch to 0.4.12 official version
14:06 est31 nrzkt, if its out in the play store, I will add it to the join message
14:06 nrzkt not now, some hours. Also est31 you are german, no ?
14:06 est31 yes why
14:07 nrzkt to transalte the play store texts :p
14:07 est31 yes I can help sfan5 is german too btw.
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14:07 sfan5 kahrl is german too
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14:09 nrzkt cool :)
14:09 nrzkt http://pastie.org/10025465
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14:09 nrzkt if you have some time to translate this :)
14:10 Wuzzy Anything new to say about <https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/448>?
14:10 est31 btw there are errors in english version
14:10 est31 some native speaker perhaps proofread it
14:10 est31 licenced
14:11 nrzkt it's possible :s what is the problem with licenced ?
14:12 Zeno` licensed
14:12 nrzkt oops ! fixed
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14:16 est31 wasn't it licensed LGPLv2.1+
14:16 est31 ?
14:19 nrzkt http://wiki.minetest.net/Licensing
14:19 nrzkt right
14:20 est31 also perhaps of "infinite-world" say "infinite possibilities"?
14:20 nrzkt i take it from the official website :p
14:21 est31 I'll take infinite possibilities for the translation
14:21 est31 "unendliche-welt" sounds weird
14:21 nrzkt if you want, :)
14:23 est31 nrzkt, do you write formal "you" or informal "you" for french version?
14:23 est31 and what version to take for german? I'm for informal
14:23 Zeno` wait
14:23 nrzkt the formal
14:23 est31 sfan5, kahrl?
14:23 Zeno` is this authorised?
14:23 nrzkt because i talk to multiples persons :)
14:23 est31 <celeron55> i do have an account too
14:23 est31 <celeron55> but as i try to focus on other things i don't have a preference on who's account is used
14:24 Zeno` k
14:24 nrzkt the fr translation: - Explorez, creusez et construisez
14:24 sfan5 est31: informal
14:25 Krock I'd prefer informal if anyone cares
14:26 nrzkt no problem for me :) each language has its own marketing methods :p
14:26 Wuzzy est31: Which translation are you talking about?
14:26 est31 agree nrzkt.
14:26 est31 Wuzzy, german.
14:27 nrzkt question: can i destroy some mapblocks to regen it ?
14:28 est31 ???
14:28 nrzkt on my production server i have generated many useless mapblocks for my tests. I want to regen it properly with new settings, but i don't want to destroy my players building
14:29 nrzkt buildings*
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14:31 celeron55_ minetest doesn't have any built-in utility for that but people have made some ulitities themselves
14:31 sfan5 gUnknow exists since 0.4.11
14:32 sfan5 that means only 24.39% of people that used the serverlist between 4th and 14th mar use 0.4.7 or older
14:32 T4im didn't hmmm add exactly that function?
14:32 celeron55_ (one gotcha is that you have to make sure you delete a full generation chunk, otherwise the mapgen will make weird things)
14:32 est31 nrzkt, i answered your question in #minetest because I thought it was user question.
14:32 celeron55_ (my information can be outdated though)
14:32 est31 celeron55_, no its up to date
14:35 est31 sfan5, how would you translate "Join us". I like it but don't know how to express it best in german.
14:35 sfan5 est31: context?
14:36 est31 "Join us !" thats it
14:36 est31 http://pastie.org/10025465
14:36 sfan5 uh
14:36 sfan5 i dunno
14:36 sfan5 it would just omit it
14:37 nrzkt it's like "Come on guy !" :p
14:40 est31 german translation here: http://pastie.org/10025532
14:41 est31 sfan5, kahrl, T4im, any other german speak, what do you think? english is: http://pastie.org/10025465
14:42 nrzkt little desc is too long. 80 chars maximum allowed
14:42 sfan5 est31: there are some minor things..
14:42 nrzkt i remove "Minetest:" from the short desc
14:42 est31 is the "Minetest" in the little-desc required nrzkt?
14:42 est31 ah ok
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14:43 sfan5 est31: "mine" ist kein Verb, fällt dir eine alternative ein?
14:43 leat joined #minetest-dev
14:44 T4im "bergbaue" ;)
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14:46 sfan5 est31, T4im: how about this? cat game.log | cut -d '"' -f 6-7 | grep -E "^Minetest[/ ]0\.4\.9" | wc -l
14:46 sfan5 oops
14:46 sfan5 est31, T4im: http://pastie.org/10025546
14:46 T4im :D
14:47 T4im better :)
14:48 Zeno` There is a small problem.  I cannot read it
14:48 est31 hehe "verschönern" :D
14:49 est31 sfan5 agree too
14:49 sfan5 est31, T4im: new one http://pastie.org/10025557
14:49 est31 "Blockbasiertes"
14:49 est31 (major letter)
14:49 sfan5 no
14:49 sfan5 it's an adjective
14:50 est31 but start of a sentence?
14:50 est31 how do other apps do it
14:50 T4im also you capitalized the imperatives
14:50 sfan5 est31: it isn't even a sentence
14:50 Krock but verbs are lowercase..
14:50 T4im est31: maybe join #minetest-de? :)
14:50 Krock (Line 14)
14:51 T4im don't want to disturb Zeno` with all that german :D
14:52 sfan5 another new german one: http://pastie.org/10025568
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14:54 Wuzzy So do I understand correctly, you are working on the German translation?
14:55 Wuzzy Because I have failed? xD
14:55 est31 lol
14:55 est31 we translate the google play store page for minetest
14:55 Wuzzy ah
14:56 Krock Ich hätte eher sowas geschrieben: Minetest ist nun offiziell auch als App im Google Play Store verfügbar!
14:56 Krock damn. wrong channel
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15:14 Calinou nrzkt, always use formal in translations
15:14 Calinou I've never seen Xfce or Firefox calling me “tu”
15:17 T4im Calinou: it's a game… not a browser or desktop environment
15:17 Calinou games also use “vous” here
15:17 est31 french != german
15:17 T4im meaning most recipients are either young enough for the informal version to be used, or don't care about being informally addressed as far as surveys showed
15:17 est31 I only know about german
15:18 T4im well true… I assume german informality too here
15:18 T4im we use informality with younger people generally as well… might not be able to apply that everywhere
15:21 T4im we also generally use the informal version in the internet outside of business context… so there's that too :)
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15:37 est31 informal ok for german
15:40 proller joined #minetest-dev
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16:01 Wuzzy RFC: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2490
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16:03 Krock I don't liek >>“<<
16:04 est31 why
16:04 est31 its german
16:05 est31 but also true that we have to distinguish between simple names and real practice.
16:05 est31 germans do use "".
16:05 est31 „” is only called "german"
16:05 est31 such as »« is called french
16:05 est31 both is ok for me btw.
16:06 T4im your client is eating the unicode chards btw
16:06 T4im chars*
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16:06 Krock Hmm? I can see the eaten chars
16:06 T4im his?
16:06 Krock yes
16:07 est31 T4im, yours is eating them
16:07 T4im oh, must be on my side then, sorry
16:07 est31 http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-03-14#i_4185440
16:07 Krock lol, I just thought about adding de_ch and strictly replace all ß with ss :D
16:08 est31 when I do strg+f for "Item definitions...", why does it find it two times????
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16:17 sfan5 est31: you wanted statistics, you get statistics: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/s​erverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt
16:17 sfan5 everyone else: I made new serverlist statistics for this month: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/s​erverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt
16:23 T4im Linux   -> 359995 72.14% \o/
16:23 Krock interesting. I thought Minetest does not support Windoze 5.0 and lower
16:23 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:24 T4im sfan5: how do you know what linux I am running? :o
16:24 Krock most players are on mobile devices - there's a huge potential :D
16:24 T4im or anyone is·…
16:24 T4im could be get an overview about what infos minetest is sending through the net? :o
16:24 sfan5 T4im: x.x.x.x - - [14/Mar/2015:16:24:19 +0000] "GET /list HTTP/1.1" 200 109990 "-" "Minetest/0.4.10 (Linux/3.4.67 armv7l)" "-"
16:24 T4im ah
16:25 T4im so common http stuff, ok
16:25 Krock oh. it's tracking the http headers, not the actual players
16:26 est31 define "player"
16:26 T4im someone still run 2.6.32 :o
16:26 Krock player = someone who joins a server and plays there for a time
16:26 est31 Krock, and when I change the nick, and not do anything else?
16:27 sfan5 Krock: it tracks the server list fetches
16:27 est31 I like it this way, it tracks how often somebody requests the public server list
16:27 sfan5 (GET requests to /list)
16:27 est31 wow: "newest Linux version: 4.0.0-040000rc1"
16:28 T4im wow
16:28 T4im someone likes to live on the bloody edge…
16:28 T4im :D
16:37 nrzkt est31: is there a final german translation ?
16:40 est31 nrzkt, http://pastie.org/10025854
16:40 nrzkt thanks
16:40 nrzkt https://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=org.minetest.minetest
16:40 nrzkt the app is published
16:41 nrzkt please inform your users !
16:41 est31 also update minetest.net
16:41 nrzkt if someone can update minetest.net and minetest wiki
16:41 T4im joined #minetest-dev
16:42 nrzkt http://wiki.minetest.net/Licensing
16:42 Calinou do I make a sticky post, nrzkt
16:42 Calinou heh, “UNIX Experience” author
16:42 nrzkt ... it's my google account... it override the organisation of the certificate... :s
16:44 est31 I'll update wiki
16:44 est31 website also needs bare download.
16:44 est31 apk only
16:45 Calinou “91120 Palaiseau”
16:45 Calinou nice city, nrzkt
16:45 Calinou optic fiber everywhere :D
16:45 nrzkt no problem xD
16:45 nrzkt i have 200Mbps/40Mbps
16:45 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=18&amp;t=11483
16:45 Calinou posted a news
16:45 Calinou nrzkt, Krock, is this OK?
16:46 Calinou anything more to add? I'd like the English description from Google Play, but I don't know how to get it
16:46 nrzkt it's good . I changed the label to my name
16:46 nrzkt i'll give u
16:46 nrzkt http://pastie.org/10025869#6
16:49 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
16:49 VanessaE nrzkt: you should update the description to indicate clearly that that build is the official, upstream, developer-sanctioned version
16:49 sfan5 nrzkt: I'm not seeing the german desc
16:50 nrzkt sfan5: maybe good didn't update it because i publish the application with english and french and add the german translation after
16:50 nrzkt good => google
16:51 nrzkt already set in the short desc VanessaE, but i can add (official) into the Title
16:51 VanessaE "now available officially" is still a little vague :P
16:51 nrzkt doesn't work.... the signature is incorrect, gg google
16:51 nrzkt the app is not instalable from play store
16:52 Calinou nrzkt, in English, there is no space before a ! or ? character
16:52 Calinou a little detail, but it's a frequent mistake by French people
16:52 est31 http://wiki.minetest.net/Li​censing#Minetest_on_Android ok?
16:53 sfan5 Calinou: french has a space between text and a !?
16:53 Calinou yes
16:53 sfan5 thatas
16:53 nrzkt sfan5: yes
16:53 sfan5 thats unusual
16:53 sfan5 <nrzkt> doesn't work.... the signature is incorrect, gg google
16:53 sfan5 can't install it here either
16:54 nrzkt they failed to sign the app... i will look at their reports. First time i have this problem when publish an app on the store...
16:54 sfan5 hm
16:54 sfan5 the minetest icon doesn't look particulary highres
16:54 kilbith Calinou, in most books the punctuation is spaced from the words, matter of readability
16:54 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
16:54 kilbith except the point ofc
16:54 nrzkt Calinou: maybe add "If you are using unofficial builds, you are encouraged to switch to this build" to the forum
16:54 Calinou OK
16:57 VanessaE nrzkt: in the description in the play store
16:57 VanessaE tablet users don't even know what the forum is.
16:57 VanessaE many of them don't even know how to google something (!)
16:58 est31 I think minetest.net website should feature google play version of minetest, and have an alternative apk download way.
16:58 nrzkt when the sign process will be good i'll give you the apk , i must fix it.
16:58 est31 after all minetest is an open source project and we dont want to force people to install proprietary software (google play).
16:59 est31 nrzkt, give it somebody who can edit the website.
16:59 * Calinou can't
16:59 nrzkt which site ?
16:59 Calinou minetest.net
17:00 nrzkt i don't have rights on it
17:01 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_​Minetest#Update_links_on_minetest.net
17:02 * est31 looks at sfan5
17:02 sfan5 *sigh*
17:02 sfan5 what do i need to do?
17:03 est31 tell that minetest is available on play store and publish the apk as alternative download.
17:03 nrzkt wait wait, i need to update the apk to resolve this sign problem
17:03 est31 ko
17:03 est31 ok*
17:14 Sokomine did you also add the android version to the fdroid repository? i think it would be a good place and ought to be present there as well. not only in the main store
17:14 est31 I agree
17:14 est31 but no its not there yet Sokomine
17:15 Sokomine i talked to sapier, and he said that he had some technical trouble getting it up there and had no time to sort it out
17:15 Sokomine so if someone knows how to (or is willing to contact those fdroid-people), that'll help i guess
17:16 est31 when?
17:16 Sokomine uff. a few weeks ago?
17:16 est31 ok...
17:17 est31 I dunno, celeron55_ can minetest be published on f-droid too? Can I give it a try?
17:18 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
17:19 Calinou you don't need permission
17:19 Calinou although F-Droid has a specific build system
17:20 Calinou (well, you'll need permission to call it official)
17:20 est31 I dont need still I want
17:20 est31 also that
17:21 ShadowNinja I'm merging security now (just adding a few tweaks and a few extra tests now).
17:22 Calinou ShadowNinja, did you test with mods like moreblocks, technic, mesecons?
17:22 Calinou and a mob mod
17:23 ShadowNinja Calinou: Yep, I only know of three mods that will break, 2 can be fixed trivially and one just requires an extra installation step.
17:23 Calinou what step? which mod?
17:23 VanessaE ShadowNinja: did you test with Dreambuilder?
17:23 T4im irc mod probably, mtt will probably too, due to the require()
17:24 ShadowNinja VanessaE: No, you can do that if you want, I'm not loading that thing.
17:24 VanessaE chicken. :)
17:25 ShadowNinja VanessaE: You've got ten minutes...  :-)
17:25 nrzkt okay the signature problem was fixed.
17:25 ShadowNinja T4im: What's mtt?
17:25 nrzkt ShadowNinja, wait for commit, i push  a AndroidManifest.xml bump
17:25 est31 minetest-test
17:25 VanessaE ShadowNinja: seriously, test it.  please don't break my game in the name of some security feature.  I have a hard enough time maintaining it as it is.
17:25 est31 ShadowNinja, its a testing suite for minetest. good for checking regressions.
17:25 leat joined #minetest-dev
17:26 nrzkt the problem was simple... with JDK7 the algorithm must be specified manually. I zipalign and sent it to playstore with a version bump
17:26 est31 nrzkt, you mean AndroidManifest template?
17:27 ShadowNinja VanessaE: It breaks UI (trivial fix, already done just have to push), worldEdit (same as UI), and IRC (slightly less trivial, but already done).  Everything else should work.
17:27 VanessaE ok.
17:27 ShadowNinja est31: what does it require?
17:27 nrzkt yes
17:28 est31 ShadowNinja, its a mod for minetest, you start it with a game
17:28 est31 no dependencies I know of
17:28 nrzkt ShadowNinja: commit done
17:28 ShadowNinja est31: Then it doesn't use require()?
17:29 est31 ShadowNinja, this is the only place it needs it https://github.com/t4im/mtt/blob/ba6e224f4e7b6​718766b1b99aa7ad83ae389f0a3/mtt/assert.lua#L1
17:31 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
17:31 est31 I think the require usage can be fixed ShadowNinja.
17:31 ShadowNinja est31: Well that can be fixed in the same way as the IRC mod, and i suspect it's only used by one or two people.
17:31 est31 yes
17:36 Sokomine btw, is origin/master still the correct version to use for the latest development version?
17:37 est31 ?
17:37 nrzkt ... play store for fixing the installation problem i must have regen the key and now i'm unable to upload the new working version. I will contact the support...
17:38 nrzkt or we need to change the package name, it's the only way :s
17:39 est31 yes thats an option
17:39 nrzkt but org.minetest.minetest was good...
17:39 est31 nrzkt, it should be changed to net.minetest.minetest
17:40 est31 because minetest.net is official version
17:40 nrzkt oh yeah, right the package name was wrong :p
17:40 ShadowNinja Uhg, I just found an issue with the path restrictions in my security branch.
17:41 est31 symlinks?
17:41 ShadowNinja open(world_path.."/../mods/foo/init.lua") should work.
17:41 est31 symlinks are ok
17:41 est31 yes that should
17:41 ShadowNinja Becuase of the inexistent path stripping for mkdir()
17:42 est31 it should only then work, when thats also the mods folder
17:42 est31 I mean you can manually specify a world folder
17:42 ShadowNinja est31: That shouldn't work, because if foo is a trusted mod you can break out for the sandbox.
17:43 ShadowNinja of*
17:44 ShadowNinja I'll have to add some other special handling for mkdir.
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17:54 nrzkt okay, i now publish the correct app... hope all will be good now
17:54 nrzkt but the installation is now good on my phone :)
17:55 nrzkt Calinou: can you change org => net in your android link please, idem for other links for other publishers :)
17:55 nrzkt i will tell you when the app will be available. The broken app has been unpublished
17:56 est31 and it is an arcade game
17:56 est31 category is wrong
17:56 Sokomine er. was a "crazily turn the player around after teleport" effect added lately?
17:56 nrzkt all public is not good ? :p
17:57 nrzkt who can edit dev.minetest.net ?
17:58 est31 wow. Multicraft reports "5.000.000–10.000.000 " installations.
17:58 est31 https://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=com.MoNTE48.MultiCraft
17:58 est31 but it has ads
17:59 nrzkt in the screen multicraft show minetest name xD
17:59 est31 lol
17:59 nrzkt somebody can edit http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest ?
18:00 nrzkt i have a release process to show there for Android
18:00 est31 VanessaE can
18:04 ElectronLibre left #minetest-dev
18:06 nore "Active Conributors" <-- typo on minetest.net/contributors
18:07 nrzkt https://play.google.com/store/apps/​details?id=com.MoNTE48.MultiCraft2 10M to 50M...
18:08 est31 and still has minetest in screenshot
18:09 nrzkt yes. It's not normal, i already sent a report to google abuse, but maybe more developpers must do it...
18:10 est31 They publish the source.
18:11 T4im including the adware inclusion?
18:11 T4im or just the minetest one? ;)
18:11 est31 thats true
18:11 est31 that can be a real problem for them
18:11 nrzkt right, but it's our work, in a great majority... and this men earn money on our development.
18:11 T4im because then everyone can include adware? :p
18:12 est31 you can include adware
18:12 kilbith est31, not the original source
18:12 VanessaE what do you need added, nrzkt
18:12 est31 but if you do, you need to publish the source
18:12 T4im nrzkt: that's not the issue… the issue is, that they are breaking copyright laws, and that's all google will react to in that moment
18:12 est31 which ofc doesnt work if you have to package adware libs that are non-free
18:12 nrzkt i tell you in whisp
18:12 est31 so that is violating the license as it seems but IANAL
18:13 T4im I would have to look up that acronym, but I am afraid what I find when I google it, est31
18:13 T4im well search it*
18:13 est31 T4im, its not the next apple product :P
18:14 Calinou nrzkt, fixed link in news
18:14 T4im urban dictionary disagrees on that one
18:14 est31 also I dont know how adware insertion is realized...
18:14 Calinou “not found”
18:14 est31 Calinou, its still waiting for approval.
18:17 nrzkt Calinou: waiting google, but this will be the link
18:17 nrzkt with this release i also tell google to promote our app on Android for Education :)
18:18 nrzkt in France i know many school teachers which use Minecraft/Minetest for their childs
18:20 hmmmm wtf is educational about minetest
18:20 T4im "learn, how you can make ice from cooking snow, and how short (nyan)cats burn"
18:20 nrzkt xD
18:20 Calinou hmmmm, I know someone who does use Minetest for teaching
18:20 Calinou (not IRL)
18:21 est31 hmmmm, do approve to publish minetest on fdroid store?
18:21 hmmmm i have nothing to do with minetest on android
18:22 est31 so you don't object?
18:22 hmmmm i don't object, but i don't have any opinion as well
18:23 nrzkt est31: i will distribute the APK
18:23 est31 nrzkt, thats good, but f-droid is a real app store that enables to update apps too.
18:23 Calinou it has its own build system, with exceptions like Firefox
18:24 Calinou you should probably get in touch with F-Droid devs to understand the system
18:24 est31 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/blo​b/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#merge-requests
18:24 Calinou nrzkt, once you have the APK, give me the link, I'll add it to the news
18:27 nrzkt http://minetest-ftp.unix-experience.fr/Android/
18:27 Calinou thanks a lot
18:28 nrzkt thanks VanessaE for updating http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest :)
18:29 kilbith as for http://minetest.net/download ?
18:29 nrzkt you can link this apk directly from minetest.net, no problem using my bandwidth and i will have download stat in my elasticsearch :)
18:30 nrzkt or we could add it on github, this could be better, no ?
18:30 est31 github has stats too
18:30 nrzkt i know, that's why i said this :p
18:30 est31 ok :)
18:31 nrzkt sfan5: can i add the APK to the 0.4.12 release ?
18:31 nrzkt on github
18:31 sfan5 nrzkt: sure
18:31 nrzkt https://github.com/minetest/​minetest/releases/tag/0.4.12 : done :)
18:31 nrzkt it's better using this than my ftp :p you can now use it Calinou
18:32 Calinou OK
18:33 Calinou updated
18:34 est31 sfan5, for minetest.net/downloads you can take this as example: http://wiki.minetest.net/Li​censing#Minetest_on_Android
18:42 Fritigern joined #minetest-dev
18:45 ShadowNinja There, all my new security tests pass now.  :-)  VanessaE: Did you test dreambuider?
18:50 T4im ShadowNinja:  does request_insecure_environment return success value? so that the mod knows whether it was allowed to continue or explain the situation to the user?
18:50 est31 T4im, it will return non-nil
18:50 T4im or does your change already do that?
18:50 est31 as it seems
18:51 ShadowNinja T4im: It returns the insecure env or nil.
18:51 T4im ok :)
18:51 est31 and that returned variable needs to be stored somewhere
18:51 est31 T4im, I'm fixing mtt ok?
18:51 T4im sure
18:52 T4im :D
18:52 T4im thanks
18:53 T4im oh, debug lib is off limits too? hm.. where did I use that one again *headscratch*
18:56 ShadowNinja T4im: No, debug is alowed, just not dangerous ones like getlocal.
18:56 cib_ joined #minetest-dev
18:57 T4im ah ok, only used getinfo somewhere I think
18:59 est31 ugs luaassert itself uses require too
19:00 T4im multiple times iirc
19:00 est31 as it seems I have to do function require(args) ...
19:01 T4im so the insecure environment is not granted to required modules?
19:01 T4im :/
19:01 T4im wouldn't that break with a lof of libs then?
19:01 est31 we don't solve it by simply overriding
19:01 T4im lot*
19:01 est31 thats no good fix
19:02 est31 rather, require shouldn't be used...
19:02 T4im well even if you somehow dofile luassert, they use it internally quite liberally
19:02 est31 yes
19:03 est31 so I'll implement the function myseld
19:03 est31 myself*
19:03 est31 then they call that
19:03 est31 still this chat doesnt belong in here I guess
19:03 T4im well, question might be, if that should be added to ShadowNinja's pr then :)
19:03 T4im some more liberal require function
19:04 est31 that might be an idea yes
19:05 est31 I'm coding it right now
19:07 ShadowNinja est31: If the module uses require you'll just have to temporarily override the global version, or run the module in the insecure environment.
19:07 devmarth joined #minetest-dev
19:07 ShadowNinja (with loadfile and setfenv)
19:08 est31 ShadowNinja, what about coding "safe" require in lua?
19:09 T4im indeed, we don't require here anything from the system (and neither does the module), just from a subdirectory, and I can imagine, that that's not uncommon for those few minetest mods using it :)
19:10 ShadowNinja est31: That could be done for Lua modules.
19:42 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
19:44 est31 ShadowNinja, context: this doc: http://www.lua.org/manual/5​.1/manual.html#pdf-package.loaders
19:44 est31 as it seems you only need to disable third and fourth loaders?
19:45 ShadowNinja est31: Yes, I'm working on that now.
19:46 ShadowNinja I also have to copy package.loaded though, and it can't be a direct copy because it references the original libs.
19:46 est31 ofc.
19:47 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
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20:18 nrzkt do we provide weekly updates for Android or we wait the release ? Because 0.4.12 is not a very very good release i think :s
20:18 nrzkt current master is better and have less problems
20:19 Calinou stick with stable releases, probably
20:19 Calinou we aren't using rolling release model :)
20:20 nrzkt maybe use intermediate builds can be good to be reactive against forks, and also fight some anoying bugs to our majority of users as it seems. When the app will be published test it, you will see problems. I tester master many of the problem disappears
20:20 VanessaE ShadowNinja: I did not test.  didn't have time.
20:20 VanessaE (still don't)
20:21 est31 I think over android market we have more control than over usual distribution mechanisms
20:21 est31 do they still force-update?
20:24 Calinou I think we should distribute a dedicated server APK
20:24 Calinou so that you can host a server on the go :)
20:24 devmarth_ that would be neat
20:27 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
20:36 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Well you've at least a few hours now that I'm working on require.
20:36 ShadowNinja Or one hour rather.
20:37 est31 VanessaE, which featrues should I test?
20:38 VanessaE est31: just see if it stars and runs without any obvious problems I guess
20:38 VanessaE note that the current build doesn't have ShadowNinja's tweaks to Unified Inventory or Worldedit
20:44 DarkRoses joined #minetest-dev
20:54 ShadowNinja est31: This is going to be a bit ugly because of a stupid internal cache that Lua 5.1 uses.  It uses _LOADED from the registry instead of package.loaded, so if a trusted mod requires something every mod will be ably to require it from package.loaded.
20:55 est31 ShadowNinja, you mean "will be able to require it from _LOADED."?
20:56 ShadowNinja est31: require uses lua_getfield(L, LUA_REGISTRYINDEX, "_LOADED"); instead of loading it from package.loaded.
20:57 ShadowNinja I'll have to add hacky code either way though actually, since it'll still acess the same env.
20:58 ShadowNinja I have to set _LOADED to the insecure version when it's used by a trusted mod.
21:02 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
21:03 neoascetic > Don't use distracting and unnecessary amounts of object orientated abstraction. See Terasology and a certain enterprisey Java coder's conception of perlin noise as examples of what not to do.
21:03 neoascetic Really? :D
21:04 Calinou yeah, this is hmmmm being angry at other devs
21:04 Calinou :(
21:04 Calinou I removed it but he reverted it
21:04 Calinou really, this isn't going to solve developers sounding like grumpy people
21:05 neoascetic I think it's a true, at least for me
21:05 neoascetic Java and lot of classes... That's why I am trying to contribute to minetest and not in Terasology
21:06 neoascetic However, I've built them a website and even in their organisation on github. But terasology simply lags on my notebook :D
21:07 neoascetic Create a mod for minetest is a pleasure. I haven't tried to create one for Terasology, though... because I simply was scared :D
21:07 Calinou oh, you built the website
21:08 neoascetic re-built in fact. That static github-pages hosted terasology.org thing
21:09 est31 being angry is distracting too
21:12 est31 I agree that three levels of abstraction that are only used at one spot aren't neccessary and just distract
21:13 T4im "don't exaggerate anything good or it becomes bad"? ;) no need to step on peoples toes… apropos… what dev is he referring to? D:
21:13 neoascetic I see there is open position on masterserver developer: http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation
21:14 neoascetic Is this true? I do not saw a lot of issues with masterserver
21:15 est31 I think thats more about maintaining. also (as it seems) you have to host it.
21:16 neoascetic btw since lua is used for mods, there is a cool webframework written in lua: http://leafo.net/lapis/ what do you think about write everything web-related using it?
21:19 est31 lua has no efficient and maintained runtime, has it?
21:26 ShadowNinja neoascetic: It's sort of maintained by me and sfan since I rewrote it in Python.
21:27 est31 what was it in before?
21:31 est31 nrzkt, which android ndk version have you used at the end?
21:34 ShadowNinja est31: perl.
21:36 est31 ShadowNinja, and with files I guess?
21:36 nrzkt 9d
21:36 nrzkt oh. Not 9d not my computer
21:36 ShadowNinja est31: Huh?
21:36 nrzkt est31: 10d-3
21:37 est31 ShadowNinja, so the changing requests (those that the servers send) modify a file via perl, and the file is also served?
21:37 est31 using apache
21:38 ShadowNinja est31: Yes to your first line, no to the second (nginx is used).
21:39 est31 ok lol
21:53 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
21:54 est31 yaay https://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=net.minetest.minetest
21:54 est31 only .9 version but still
21:55 est31 sfan5, you can update the website now I guess :)
21:55 VanessaE it STILL doesn't show up in a search for "Minetest"
21:56 est31 one for "Minete" perhaps?
21:56 est31 now its offline again
21:56 est31 weird
21:57 VanessaE "This app is incompatible with your device" (Rockchip P1001A)
21:57 VanessaE nrzkt: ^^^^ regression.  sapier's build was compatible with that chip.
21:58 sfan5 est31: https://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=org.minetest.minetest
21:58 est31 no the net.* is the new one
21:58 est31 sfan5, press f5
21:58 sfan5 there is not net.minetest.minetest
21:58 sfan5 We're sorry, the requested URL was not found on this server.
21:59 est31 I dunno, it was there a short time
21:59 est31 nrzkt, did you take this offline? https://play.google.com/store/apps​/details?id=net.minetest.minetest
21:59 est31 VanessaE can you paste the /proc/cpuinfo?
22:00 VanessaE est31: nope, I don't have the tablet handy at the moment
22:00 VanessaE it's okay though, that tablet is a piece of shit anyway :)
22:00 VanessaE from sapier's compat list:  - Xelio P1000A-BK,          2x1GHz,        Mali-400 MP,   512MB, 1024x600        (POOR)
22:03 nrzkt oh this is available ?
22:03 nrzkt it's not my compat list, it's the list on the makefile i haven't touch it
22:04 VanessaE it isn't urgent or anything, just making a note of it.
22:04 VanessaE I don't play MT on a tablet anyway
22:05 nrzkt no, we are starting from zero :)
22:08 VanessaE hm, sapier typoed that line, it should be P1001A...
22:19 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
22:25 kilbith ~seen BlockMen
22:25 ShadowBot kilbith: I saw BlockMen in #minetest-dev 1 week, 1 day, 3 hours, 55 minutes, and 32 seconds ago saying "ShadowNinja, fixed"
22:42 nrzkt oO
22:42 nrzkt net.minetest.minetest removed from play store
22:42 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
22:42 est31 reason?
22:43 nrzkt we are using some spam keywords :o
22:44 est31 :/
22:44 nrzkt REASON FOR REMOVAL:Violation of the spam provisions of the Content Policy. Please refer to the keyword spam policy help article for more information.
22:44 nrzkt Do not engage in "keyword stuffing" by loading app descriptions with keywords out of context.
22:44 nrzkt Do not use excessive keywords in apps descriptions, titles, or metadata.
22:44 nrzkt Your title and/or description must not attempt to leverage another popular product without permission.
22:44 nrzkt Do not include user testimonials in your app description. They tend to be dubious and are frequently utilized to include references to popular search terms and competitor apps in violation of the policies outlined here. Let your users speak for themselves via Play's comment review system.
22:48 nrzkt if it was removed because of the commercialized app ... fuck off
23:07 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
23:20 est31 hmmmm, any other dev, do you like function pointers in c++ code, or not like it?
23:21 est31 actually defining a function in-function, passing the pointer to another function, and let the called function call the passed one.
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