Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-02-07

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 roniz__ joined #minetest-dev
01:02 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
01:16 twoelk joined #minetest-dev
01:49 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
02:26 gregorycu joined #minetest-dev
02:29 gregorycu_ joined #minetest-dev
02:30 gregorycu_ Is anyone on linux here, I want to see if something causes a crash
02:33 gregorycu joined #minetest-dev
02:34 gregorycu__ joined #minetest-dev
02:39 chchjesus joined #minetest-dev
02:39 gregorycu With regards to the perf issues, is a solution simply to make sure that the render loop only processes a single mesh per loop?
02:39 gregorycu Or every couple of loops?
02:42 gregorycu Can we please not use TCP for communications
02:54 Wayward_One i'm on linux
02:54 Wuzzy2 joined #minetest-dev
03:04 gregorycu Wayward_One: Would you be able to paste in a unicode character into chat
03:04 VanessaE paste into minetest doesn't generally work in Linux.
03:05 gregorycu Oh... ok
03:05 gregorycu Um...
03:05 VanessaE copy-out usually does.
03:05 gregorycu How many people on your server Vanessa?
03:05 VanessaE meh, they're quiet today
03:06 VanessaE only a couple of people on Survival at the moment, the others are idle
03:06 VanessaE (that's normal for the weekend)
03:07 gregorycu I want to connect and send a unicode character
03:08 VanessaE go ahead.
03:08 VanessaE just pick one that's not occupied if you don't mind
03:09 chchjesus joined #minetest-dev
03:09 VanessaE the "Vanessa/Nore Mapgen" should do
03:09 VanessaE +server
03:10 gregorycu Sure thing
03:18 gregorycu (Sorry, heard shouting next door, went to check it out)
03:23 Gerold55 joined #minetest-dev
03:37 VanessaE gregorycu: ok, I see you onm the server..
03:37 VanessaE on*
03:37 hmmmm hey guys
03:37 VanessaE hi
03:38 gregorycu :)
03:38 gregorycu Found me
03:38 VanessaE BOO!
03:38 VanessaE ok, shoot.
03:38 gregorycu Ok, let me get a unicode string
03:39 VanessaE 22:39:09: ACTION[ServerThread]: CHAT: <Gregorycu> Character conversion failed!
03:39 VanessaE and nothing happened on my client.
03:39 book` joined #minetest-dev
03:39 hmmmm are there any other blockers?
03:39 gregorycu Maybe a bad character
03:39 VanessaE guess my servers are built without gettext
03:39 hmmmm also is there any proof that scenes get rendered multiple times on singleplayer?
03:40 VanessaE hmmmm: until the guy/formspec and HUD scaling issues are solved, I don't think 0.4.12 should go out
03:40 gregorycu Another failure
03:40 VanessaE gregorycu: here it just keeps saying "character conversion failed"
03:40 hmmmm guy/formspec?
03:40 hmmmm oh gui
03:40 VanessaE gui/formspec*
03:40 hmmmm alright
03:40 gregorycu Yeah, I can see that locally
03:40 VanessaE damn I've been typo'ing all day :-/
03:41 hmmmm formspec scaling you mean?
03:41 VanessaE yeah
03:41 hmmmm I'm gonna have to take action on this myself
03:41 hmmmm there's no other way things are getting done
03:41 hmmmm so tell me more about this
03:41 VanessaE hmmmm: when sapier put his fonts-scale-with-window-size stuff in, formspecs started scaling with.
03:41 hmmmm what's exactly wrong, how do I replicate, what counts as the issue being solved, or maybe just point me to an issue on github with all the relevant information
03:42 VanessaE after much hair-pulling and yelling, fonts are back to normal but formspecs still scale with window size.
03:42 hmmmm VanessaE:  wasn't that present in 0.4.11?
03:42 VanessaE no, not as far as I remember
03:42 VanessaE and it certainly wasn't in 0.4.10 and prior
03:42 VanessaE and now the HUD no longer scales with window size
03:42 hmmmm also isn't there a "scaled" parameter for formspec?
03:42 VanessaE 22:42:35: ACTION[ServerThread]: CHAT: <Gregorycu> �
03:42 hmmmm that one is definitely easier
03:43 gregorycu Did anyone crash?
03:43 hmmmm believe me i really want to get this release out
03:43 VanessaE hmmmm: supposedly yes, and it defaults to enabled, from what I'm led to understand.
03:43 VanessaE gregorycu: no crash here.
03:43 VanessaE on my client and in my debug log, I see that <?> character
03:43 gregorycu I suppose we'll find out in 30 seconds
03:43 hmmmm VanessaE:  that strikes me as wrong behavior
03:43 hmmmm should it be set by default for android??
03:43 hmmmm so this is a pretty trivial fix actually
03:44 VanessaE hmmmm: for *android*, scale by window size, and scale by screen DPI makes sense
03:44 VanessaE but for desktop, it should be fixed-scaling and scale by DPI (when it can be detected)
03:44 VanessaE the latter part works mostly
03:44 VanessaE the former part does not
03:44 hmmmm scale-by-dpi
03:44 VanessaE yeah
03:44 hmmmm so what do you mean
03:44 hmmmm your windows users have formspec problems, but your linux users do not?
03:44 hmmmm rather, Xorg users
03:45 VanessaE I mean all desktop PC users in singleplayer, any OS, any game, or any server, will display this behavior
03:45 gregorycu VanessaE: I'm going to get something to eat, and study the code for a bit, thanks for your help
03:45 VanessaE gregorycu: sure.
03:46 hmmmm VanessaE:  systems where Xorg is present have their DPI autodetected though
03:46 VanessaE yes
03:46 VanessaE that part works fine afaict.
03:46 hmmmm oh derr
03:46 hmmmm you said scale by screen dpi
03:46 VanessaE but shit that didn't scale before does now, like the Pause menu or the Main menu
03:46 hmmmm and right now the incorrect behavior is the scale by window size
03:46 VanessaE yes, precisely
03:47 hmmmm I thought formspecs were supposed to work that way
03:47 VanessaE they didn't used to.
03:47 hmmmm like they're relative
03:47 hmmmm you specify a decimal number from 0 to 1
03:47 hmmmm that way you skirt around clients having different resolutions
03:47 VanessaE they used to maintain a fixed size on screen regardless of window size
03:47 hmmmm did you specify it in pixels??
03:48 VanessaE eh?
03:48 hmmmm the formspec size and positioning
03:48 VanessaE nope, they're specified as portions of inventory slots
03:48 hmmmm forgive my ignorance, I have never worked with formspec code and I never defined my own formspecs
03:49 VanessaE like 3 would be the width of 3 slots in the 'i' inventory screen
03:49 VanessaE text labels and buttons have a slightly different metric, but they're all relative sizes
03:50 hmmmm ahh
03:50 hmmmm what a shitty system
03:50 VanessaE yeah
03:50 hmmmm who designed this
03:50 hmmmm why did it gain so much traction
03:50 hmmmm everybody should be using the new better way
03:50 VanessaE idk who designed it; sapier and Zefram_fysh tried to bring it under some better method but it didn't take
03:51 VanessaE because it just can't be made to be backward compatible with the tons and tons of old-but-still-functional code out there
03:51 hmmmm it didn't take because the majority of modmakers partake in cargo cult programming
03:51 hmmmm they don't actually understand wtf it is they're doing
03:51 VanessaE true enough
03:51 VanessaE but given the syntax of a formspec, that's understandable.
03:51 VanessaE what you see the main menu built with is not what a mod uses,
03:52 hmmmm do you have any objection to breaking "old" formspec support when client-side modding hits?
03:52 VanessaE mods don't even get the advantage of fstk for example
03:52 hmmmm I hate it and we should blow the old format up
03:52 VanessaE only if by "breaking" you mean it's deprecated and relegated to undocumented history in favor of something that's fully documented and which works better
03:52 hmmmm yup
03:52 hmmmm definitely that'd be the case
03:52 hmmmm the formspec system would be innnnnnncredibly different though
03:52 hmmmm i.e. completely client-side
03:53 VanessaE there's a table-based format available now
03:53 hmmmm yeah, I saw that
03:53 VanessaE poorly documented as I recall, only used by the main menu
03:53 hmmmm great stuff!
03:53 VanessaE and still using the same funky metrics for positioning elements
03:53 hmmmm a lot of stuff in minetest needs work haha
03:53 hmmmm I'm not saying we use what's currently there
03:54 hmmmm but it's going to be entirely table-based, and better in every way imaginable
03:54 VanessaE also main menu (and maybe also one or more of sapier's mods) uses fstk
03:54 hmmmm fstk is the name given to the table format?
03:54 hmmmm FormSpecTableKey?
03:54 VanessaE I think it's a library wrapped around it
03:54 VanessaE formspec toolkit
03:54 hmmmm ahh
03:54 VanessaE I've never looked into it though
03:54 hmmmm you should
03:54 hmmmm well
03:54 hmmmm you shouldn't
03:54 VanessaE heh
03:55 hmmmm depending on how much free time I have, client-side modding might be a reality soon (tm)
03:55 VanessaE nice
03:55 hmmmm in terms of priorities, look:
03:55 hmmmm (in terms of my own priorities):
03:55 hmmmm we got the biome system rework
03:56 hmmmm we got the myriad of mapgen fixes
03:56 hmmmm some misc. work
03:56 hmmmm emergethread performance increases
03:56 hmmmm and then what?
03:57 hmmmm in any case... back onto the original topic
03:57 hmmmm I like how the boolean that controls formspec window scaling is given the super descriptive name "m_lock"
03:58 VanessaE there's a simple way to see the scaling issue - just launch the client and compare the main menu at normal size versus max window size
03:58 VanessaE heh, yeah REAL descriptive :P
03:58 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d1d6a97b1cd05ec34358b6519fc232fc158cf521
03:58 hmmmm this is the thing that did it
03:58 VanessaE yep, that's the one
03:59 hmmmm ...which seems to be 0.4.11
03:59 hmmmm unless I'm mistaken
03:59 VanessaE I believe Zeno reverted it just prior to 0.4.11
03:59 VanessaE then un-reverted it or some such
03:59 VanessaE or rather, *disabled* it
03:59 hmmmm no it's after
03:59 hmmmm yeah I see how it worked out
03:59 hmmmm funny enough
04:00 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
04:00 VanessaE HAH
04:00 VanessaE speak of the devil and he shall appear!
04:00 hmmmm so I don't know... what do you guys want to do, revert that, fix GUI scaling, then release
04:00 hmmmm ?
04:01 hmmmm nope nevermind
04:01 hmmmm what zeno did was disable the font scaling
04:02 Zeno` did I?
04:02 Zeno` Oh, for the workaround?
04:02 hmmmm yeah
04:02 hmmmm vanessae said you reverted zephram's commit that made formspecs scale to window size (unwanted behavior by default)
04:02 hmmmm before 0.4.11
04:02 VanessaE hmmmm: s/reverted/disabled/
04:02 hmmmm but i just looked at the history
04:02 hmmmm it came strictly after 0.4.11
04:03 hmmmm well, changing the default status of this might make some people angry
04:03 Zeno` Yeah I added a workaround just before 0.4.11 until sapier/zephram could work on it more
04:04 hmmmm or wait a tick
04:04 hmmmm i'm confused
04:05 FR^4 joined #minetest-dev
04:05 hmmmm okay it was there before 0.4.11 and then the font scaling part disabled
04:05 VanessaE all right something ain't right here
04:05 Zeno` all that font and gui stuff has that effect on people
04:05 VanessaE why is your commit not showi---
04:05 VanessaE ahhh
04:05 hmmmm but the formspec scaling was there in 0.4.11's release
04:06 hmmmm Zeno`:  what's your opinion?  change the behavior of formspec scaling or leave it?
04:06 hmmmm now that you've had it for a whole version
04:06 VanessaE f7f7fec497f83da0d9f6ea2e83796720484033ff
04:06 hmmmm yeah saw that one
04:06 Zeno` I don't know... it's still a problem?
04:07 gregorycu Crash damn you
04:07 * Zeno` looks at logs
04:08 hmmmm VanessaE says that behavior doesn't make sense for PCs
04:08 hmmmm personally... I'm indifferent
04:08 Zeno` oh being scaled by window size? I don't like that much
04:09 VanessaE I can make for you an extreme example if you want
04:09 VanessaE screenshot that is
04:09 Zeno` I don't know of any other app that changes the sizes of its forms/dialogs when you change the window size
04:09 Zeno` (not on PC anyway)
04:10 hmmmm ?
04:10 hmmmm what about GTK
04:11 Zeno` I don't use GTK :) Does it do that?
04:11 VanessaE I've no objections to using GTK or QT
04:11 hmmmm vanessae:  no I was saying that GTK does that
04:11 VanessaE just, for G*d sakes, anything but Wx :P
04:11 hmmmm it's slot-based
04:11 VanessaE OH
04:11 VanessaE it doesn't scale individual buttons with window size
04:11 VanessaE ir single-line text fields
04:11 hmmmm setting something to an explicit size is a huge pain in the ass
04:11 VanessaE or8
04:11 hmmmm honestly I hate gtk so much
04:11 hmmmm the only saving grace is that it's a C-only api
04:12 Zeno` oh, explicit size is not correct. But... what Vanessa said ^^
04:12 gregorycu Minecraft has an option to scale GUI size to window size
04:12 hmmmm Zeno`:  ya
04:12 hmmmm Zeno`:  I am reading the code right now and data.explicit_size is only set in two places
04:13 hmmmm right before parseSize, and inside parseSize (wtf?  parseSize should return "is size explicit")
04:13 hmmmm it looks TO ME AT FIRST GLANCE like sane behavior:  if the size is specified, disable scaling
04:13 hmmmm if the size is unspecified, enable scaling for that element
04:14 FR^4 joined #minetest-dev
04:14 hmmmm what's wrong with this exactly?
04:15 hmmmm the size was assumed I guess?
04:15 VanessaE hmmmm: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2002062015%20-%2011%3a16%3a14%20PM.png
04:15 VanessaE there's the screenshot I was gonna show you
04:15 hmmmm right
04:15 hmmmm so specify your damn sizes i'd say
04:15 VanessaE upper left: default window size.  lower left, 1600x1200.  behind those, 3200x2400-ish
04:16 hmmmm I'm trying to figure out how the original code handled sizes if a size wasn't specified
04:16 VanessaE originally the code based its button sizes on the height of the text.
04:16 hmmmm can you explain ?
04:16 VanessaE the engine code*
04:16 hmmmm okay
04:16 VanessaE ditto for single-line entry fields
04:16 VanessaE now that's been decoupled
04:16 hmmmm that sounds reasonable
04:17 hmmmm enum FormspecScalingMode { FS_SM_EXPLICIT, FS_SM_WINDOW, FS_SM_TEXT }; ?
04:18 Zeno` In Qt, you give a desired window size; the controls in the window are scaled to accommodate the font and the window resized as appropriate. But never does the window size scale based upon the size of its parent window
04:18 VanessaE it was my argument and perhaps others that the size of a text/button element should be based on the height of its containing text, but it used to be something a bit more than that, which I think is why it's broken now
04:18 hmmmm but is text size determined by DPI?
04:18 hmmmm for formspecs
04:18 VanessaE text size is, yes.
04:18 hmmmm I am not sure what the current state of that is
04:18 VanessaE if sapier were around he'd be able to explain it, but he'd also go ballistic
04:19 hmmmm so scaling by text, in effect, scales by dpi
04:19 hmmmm to a point
04:20 hmmmm well that's okay
04:20 hmmmm we can add additional scaling modes later
04:20 VanessaE bottom line is, formspecs should never scale, not like you see in my screenshots anyway
04:21 VanessaE not unless the formspec author explicitly tells the engine to allow it
04:21 hmmmm agreed
04:21 VanessaE and then single-line fields like that text entry I highlighted should never scale vertically, period.
04:21 hmmmm heh :(
04:22 hmmmm so why would sapier be upset with changing this functionality to something more sane?
04:22 VanessaE because to him, everyone has or will have 4k/retina displays.
04:22 Zeno` maybe in 25 years they will...
04:22 hmmmm a lot more people do have 4k displays for real though
04:22 VanessaE and us luddites with 1600x1200 sub-100-DPI desktop panels don't exist ;)
04:23 VanessaE I know a lot do --- on mobiles.
04:23 Zeno` why can't it work for both 4k and "normal" displays anyway?
04:23 hmmmm I think they buy it because they want the desktop space, though, not because they're obsessed DPI
04:23 VanessaE most desktop PC users don't even have > 1280x1024
04:23 VanessaE (or HD if they have that)
04:23 Zeno` if there are some users that want it and some that don't then it should be an option
04:23 hmmmm right
04:24 VanessaE Zeno`: I believe I advocated for that as well
04:24 hmmmm but we're trying to determine the default behavior I thought
04:24 hmmmm the default behavior of a thing says a lot
04:24 VanessaE let the user decide whether and by how much to scale
04:24 Zeno` but anyway, right now that screenshot Vanessa showed looks wrong to me (i.e. the text input widget)
04:24 FR^4 joined #minetest-dev
04:24 hmmmm thaaat's just naaasty
04:25 hmmmm bet nobody got the reference there
04:25 Zeno` nope
04:25 Zeno` we're all a bit dim
04:25 Zeno` :D
04:26 VanessaE sounds vaguely familiar but nope.
04:29 VanessaE it has been my contention from day 1 that the user must be in full control of things like how big, relative to the window size, an element is -- that's why window managers offer "big" themes and additional scaling options, and they must be able to independently control the font size, and said font must be a consistent size no matter where it appears or how big or small the window is
04:30 VanessaE but the caveat there is that the layout of the UI needs to be able to shift around to try to accommodate very small sizes if it can (formspecs can't though)
04:30 book` joined #minetest-dev
04:31 VanessaE s/an element/a class of elements/
04:46 Niebieski joined #minetest-dev
05:06 Zeno` The water going transparent/opaque when turning your head slightly needs fixing (if possible)
05:07 Zeno` Not a blocker though... it's been like that for ages
05:07 VanessaE related to that, the whole alpha-z-ordering issue
05:07 VanessaE I think, without shaders, it's actually gotten worse recently :P
05:16 Niebieski I want to make an NPC mod, so I think I'll register the NPCs as nodes, but how I'll be able to dress skins to these nodes ?
05:16 VanessaE you'd use mesh drawtype and supply a standard model file
05:17 VanessaE this belongs in #minetest
05:53 Kalabasa joined #minetest-dev
07:36 blaze` joined #minetest-dev
07:40 Niebieski left #minetest-dev
08:00 Anchakor_ joined #minetest-dev
08:12 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
08:31 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
08:39 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
08:41 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
09:01 Krock joined #minetest-dev
09:13 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
09:14 hmmmm guiFormSpecMenu.cpp is the greatest atrocity of minetest
09:15 hmmmm i will have great pleasure exploding the entire thing
09:16 VanessaE heh
09:16 VanessaE see the other parts of the chat/backscroll..
09:17 hmmmm though, honestly, I think the new formspec would look like no more than a lua interface to the Irrlicht GUI functions...
09:21 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
09:32 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
09:35 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
10:08 Kalabasa joined #minetest-dev
10:21 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
11:09 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
11:24 SopaXorzTaker joined #minetest-dev
11:26 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
11:52 Kalabasa joined #minetest-dev
12:18 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
12:19 Zeno` planning to merge #2244
12:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2244 -- Fix rebase bug, make render loop use cache setting by gregorycu
12:50 nore joined #minetest-dev
13:27 nore sfan5, since we haven't seen BlockMen for months, and I currently have very little time, what about making PilzAdam and ShadowNinja able to agree on pull requests (with the 2 dev needed to agree to merge a PR rule as before) ?
13:27 nore (and able to merge them too)
13:32 DFeniks joined #minetest-dev
13:35 Zeno` it'd help wouldn't it
13:35 Zeno` considering it's basically dead :P~
13:36 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
13:37 Aaron1011 joined #minetest-dev
13:58 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
14:09 kilbith obviously agreed with Zeno, and sfan5 seems ignoring the question of nore...
14:12 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
14:13 sfan5 kilbith: i have a real life too, you know
14:14 sfan5 kilbith: also attributing everything to malice is not a good idea
14:14 kilbith that's your usual excuse, but nobody is permanently busy 18h/24.  some things requires few sedonds/minutes to deal that you don't give a shit
14:14 sfan5 nore: yup, that's a good idea.
14:15 nore do we need an official announcement?
14:15 sfan5 kilbith: we're volunteers, not people being paid to do something
14:15 kilbith sfan5: and i never thought you're bad, just lacking of motivation
14:16 sfan5 nore: i guess we don't
14:16 nore anyway, they already have push rights, haven't they?
14:16 sfan5 hm, i think they do
14:17 nore ok, then ~tell-ing them that should be enough
14:17 sfan5 nore: also link them to the mainter guidelines for _game please
14:17 nore hm: where are those?
14:18 sfan5 nore: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest_game_Development
14:18 nore ok
14:18 nore do you have access to the dev wiki to change the names of the maintainers?
14:18 sfan5 yes
14:19 nore perhaps change the 50% to at least two too
14:19 sfan5 kilbith: coming back to find that you have been accused of ignoring things and not giving a shit is not nice
14:20 kilbith sorry, but it's a constatation, nore is forced to shake you weekly for review the PRs and merge them
14:21 nore ~tell ShadowNinja sfan5 and I decided to make you a maintainer for minetest_game, guidelines are here: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest_game_Development
14:21 ShadowBot nore: O.K.
14:21 sfan5 nore: changed the page
14:21 nore sfan5, ok, make the ~tell too
14:21 nore (ah, looks like I've forgotten to /msg the second one)
14:23 sfan5 ~tell PilzAdam nore and I decided to make you a maintainer for minetest_game, guidelines are here: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest_game_Development
14:23 ShadowBot sfan5: O.K.
14:23 nore ^ oops, I wanted to say "made the ~tell"
14:23 nore sorry :)
14:24 sfan5 nore: (you forgot PilzAdam though)
14:24 nore sfan5, nope, but I did it in a /msg
14:24 nore just forgot to do that the second time
14:24 PilzAdam I'm here, why use ~tell?
14:24 sfan5 oh
14:24 nore hm, because it looked like you weren't there :)
14:24 nore and we didn't want you to miss it
14:25 PilzAdam Tesseract is here, too
14:25 Guest2647 joined #minetest-dev
14:25 nore btw: game#419, game#421, game#422 and game#423 look good, thoughts?
14:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/419 -- Clean up trapdoors code and make them more flexible by Jeija
14:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/421 -- Add reverse recipes for hoes while keeping def.recipe compatibility v2 by MT-Modder
14:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/422 -- Fix download URL by blha303
14:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/423 -- make trapdoor better visible when held in the hand by Xanthin
14:26 nore PilzAdam: is Tesseract a core dev? I didn't know that...
14:26 sfan5 nore: Tesseract == ShadowNinja
14:26 kilbith Tesseract == ShadowNinja
14:26 nore ...
14:27 nore ok, I didn't know that
14:27 kilbith was kicked by sfan5: please come back when you have stopped blaming volunteers for wanting some free time for themselves and not being able to respond 24h.
14:29 PilzAdam sfan5, kicking is bad :-/
14:31 celeron55 i don't think that was acceptable
14:31 celeron55 kilbith's concerns are valid and he didn't say them in a personally attacking way
14:32 sfan5 i felt attacked
14:33 blaze` joined #minetest-dev
14:33 celeron55 that really can't matter; otherwise it's unfair from the standpoint of the other person
14:34 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest​_game/pull/415#issuecomment-72365482
14:34 sfan5 i did not kick him because just of this
14:35 sfan5 he has blamed me for not sharing his opinion before
14:35 sfan5 see his link
14:35 sfan5 this*
14:36 PilzAdam a list of PRs that I agree to be merged: game#423, game#422, game#314 (with some tweaks), game#310, game#191 (with param2 instead of param1)
14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/423 -- make trapdoor better visible when held in the hand by Xanthin
14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/422 -- Fix download URL by blha303
14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/314 -- Add protection support to seed placement and hoeing by codeandfix
14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/310 -- Allow overriding papyrus and cactus grow functions by HybridDog
14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/191 -- Make fire permanent when param1 == 1, except when near water by bas080
14:37 celeron55 sfan5: looking at discussions between you two, it seems like both of you make dumb and unproductive statements
14:38 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
14:39 kilbith sfan5, just do the disctinction between personnal attacks and contributor's activity
14:39 sfan5 how is telling someone they don't give a shit about PRs a contributor's activity?
14:40 kilbith i challenge you to find a personal attack against you from me
14:41 sfan5 <kilbith> that's your usual excuse, but nobody is permanently busy 18h/24.  some things requires few sedonds/minutes to deal that you don't give a shit
14:42 celeron55 wasn't that issue solved with the addition of _game maintainers just now?
14:42 sfan5 yes, it was
14:42 celeron55 good
14:44 kilbith i was rude and sorry for this but you simply don't take an initiative at all for the game for review/merge/comment the PRs if someone (nore especially) don't ask you.  volunteering is one thing, but block the dynamics of a project because you have 50% of the decision process is another whereas few seconds or minutes are needed to cares of those pulls
14:45 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
14:45 sfan5 I'm sorry for not having enough time
14:45 kilbith most of time if someone else than nore ask you, you simply don't react whereas you're active elsewhere in the community
14:46 sfan5 left #minetest-dev
14:46 kilbith everyone has 5-10 minutes of free time to alloc on a project
14:46 PilzAdam kilbith, if he doesn't want to deal with dev stuff then he doesn't have to
14:46 PilzAdam stop expecting too much from core devs
14:47 celeron55 frankly one should try to keep out of the way of others if one doesn't have time
14:48 kilbith PilzAdam: sure, nobody is forced, but this project and its lack of maintainers imply some responsabilities (such as delegation of competent people if we really have not enough time)
14:49 celeron55 and the proper way to do that is to assign trusted people to fill the role before you have to assign random persons to do it
14:51 nore that's why we decided to add some more maintainers
14:53 celeron55 (also, we still do have new contributors coming into this project, so everyone should try to push some responsibility to them if they seem to be able to handle it, instead of just giving every task to the same old busy people)
14:55 kilbith sfan5: as for that : https://github.com/minetest/minetest​_game/pull/415#issuecomment-72365482
14:55 kilbith your decision was stupid, not you
14:56 kilbith i don't really understand why you feel attacked just in critizing a decision
14:59 PilzAdam kilbith, on the one hand, you want him to make decisions in "few sedonds/minutes", but on the other hand you criticize his decisions
15:00 PilzAdam making an informed decision on a pull request requires time
15:00 kilbith you have misunderstood
15:02 kilbith pointing out the fact that he feel attacked because i disagree harshly of one of his decision, is unrelated with the overall reactivity
15:02 PilzAdam it's not, thats my point
15:03 PilzAdam if you have only 1 or 2 free hours a day and you bother to look at PRs, then you don't want an environment where people attack you "harshly"
15:04 kilbith "where people attack you "harshly"  -> there you're wrong
15:04 kilbith attacking an idea != attacking a person
15:04 PilzAdam maybe he wants to chill out; and that's not possible in such an environment
15:06 kilbith i read often worse than that for the engine
15:06 kilbith in terms of "harsh" talking
15:07 PilzAdam so what?
15:07 kilbith but anyways, i repeat: attacking an idea is not attacking a person, if you mix clumsily that evident points, better to leave the maintainance
15:08 PilzAdam "@sfan5 wanted to conserve them especially without a legit reason whereas no others textures benefit of alternatives. Such absurdity leads me to close the PR." sounds like a personal attack to me, btw
15:08 kilbith where ?
15:08 kilbith *his decision" was absurd to me
15:09 kilbith damn, that's clear enough
15:09 PilzAdam you clearly question sfan5's ability to reason
15:09 kilbith not at all, that's your axed interpretation
15:10 Aaron1011 joined #minetest-dev
15:10 PilzAdam also closing a PR several times with the comment "I'm heatedly opposed to keep this silly folder." doesn't sound like a friendly environment to me
15:11 kilbith oh, and now saying "silly folder" is a personnal attack too ? 8)
15:11 PilzAdam no wonder sfan5 doesn't want to spend his little free time here
15:12 kilbith oh yeah, very toxic env.
15:12 kilbith ...
15:15 PilzAdam sarcasm doesn't help either
15:15 kilbith demagogy too
15:22 nrzkt if sfan5 doesn't want to spend its free time here, he doesn't need to be a core dev, because it does no dev, only troll
15:25 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
15:40 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
15:44 book` joined #minetest-dev
15:52 roniz joined #minetest-dev
15:52 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
15:55 est31 joined #minetest-dev
16:00 book` joined #minetest-dev
16:14 SopaXorzTaker joined #minetest-dev
16:43 ElectronLibre_ joined #minetest-dev
16:47 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
16:57 Zeno` celeron55, what is "active"?
16:58 Zeno` e.g. I haven't been that "active" lately apart from spending 8 hours a day generating profiles etc etc etc
16:58 Zeno` i.e. bug hunting
16:58 celeron55 that's more than active
16:59 celeron55 active = doing stuff that matters
16:59 Zeno` ok, cool :)
16:59 Zeno` Just wanted to make sure it wasn't related to number of PRs or commits heh. Because I really haven't been doing much in that area because I've been trying to track things down
17:01 Zeno` And I admit defeat
17:01 Zeno` I can't even bisect to a particular commit :(
17:02 Zeno` We thought we had it the other day but it seems that the person who reported the issue still has the issue
17:03 Zeno` regarding nrzkt's refactoring I've been running it for about a month on my server. No problems
17:04 Zeno` I think VanessaE has as well on her servers
17:05 VanessaE I was for a while there
17:06 VanessaE not anymore, but I had no issues with it
17:07 nrzkt Zeno` and VanessaE, second patchset also need to be tested, it's ready to follow the first ^^.
17:10 Zeno` second patchset is client though?
17:10 Zeno` or does it affect server as well? (I haven't looked closely)
17:10 Zeno` oh it probably does affect server because of deserialize
17:11 Zeno` I'll look at it tomorrow and if necessary apply it to my server
17:12 Zeno` From what I remember seeing I don't think there would be problems
17:13 nrzkt no Zeno
17:13 nrzkt second patchset is packet writing
17:13 Zeno` oh, that one
17:13 Zeno` yeah ok
17:14 nrzkt and it works very well, there are no protocol break with second patchset
17:14 Zeno` I did look at them and test them when you opened the PRs. If not for the feature freeze I would have pushed for them to be merged before now
17:14 nrzkt the third will break things, protocol and network, because we must change them together (but i can split the third in two, one for repairing broken packets and one for changing sockets)
17:15 Zeno` sounds scary
17:16 nrzkt ofc, but i will explain in details how i'll change the packet handling from socket to handlers when this PR will come
17:17 Zeno` yep, cool
17:17 nrzkt this PR will simplify the network layer and reduce code
17:37 Selah joined #minetest-dev
17:42 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
18:02 MattJ100 joined #minetest-dev
18:13 younishd joined #minetest-dev
18:38 Krock I think the skybox image should be loaded by default from the local texture pack
18:39 nrzkt at this time it's loaded from where ?
18:39 VanessaE I asked for that ages ago
18:39 Calinou Krock, how to manage day/night transition?
18:39 VanessaE it is not loaded from anywehre
18:39 VanessaE you have to write a mod to load a skybox image
18:40 nrzkt good idea, if community need it i think we must add it
18:40 Krock a mod is not required for a custom skybox IMO
18:40 VanessaE nrzkt: that is to say, skyboxes have no default image names and nothing in the default game creates/loads one, so no texture pack has any hope of relying on some "default" skybox
18:40 Krock it's possible to customize sun and moon but not the sky
18:41 VanessaE idk if you can customize the sun and moon images separately from the skybox
18:41 VanessaE has anyone tried that?
18:41 Krock m_sun_texture = tsrc->isKnownSourceImage("sun.png") ?
18:41 VanessaE yeah, I know that
18:41 VanessaE but I mean if a skybox is *also* in use
18:42 VanessaE i.e. at the same time
18:42 Krock you mean a mod should override it?
18:42 Krock it should be able to override a customized skybox?
18:43 VanessaE I'm saying I don't know what happens currently if a mod supplies a skybox and a texture pack supplies a new sun image at the same time
18:43 Krock I don't know too :3
19:02 celeron55 to those who follow this channel but not the forum: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=3&amp;t=11172&amp;p=169618#p169618
19:03 VanessaE celeron55: saw it.  agree 100%.
19:10 sfan5 joined #minetest-dev
19:13 ElectronLibre_ joined #minetest-dev
19:48 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
20:01 est31 Tesseract: to answer this :http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-02-04#i_4141668
20:01 est31 I guess the move isn't done as luajit doesnt fully support 5.2
20:01 est31 what about adding the bitops library to builtin lua?
20:02 est31 http://bitop.luajit.org/
20:02 est31 its MIT, and luajit supports it
20:02 est31 then we could efficiently solve #2250
20:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2250 -- Extend protection api to allow for protection from specific actions
20:02 Tesseract est31: Lua  5.2 and LuaJIT both include bitops, and 5.3 has actual operators and 64-bit ints.  :-)
20:02 Tesseract But GTG, BBL.
20:03 est31 yes, but move to lua 5.2 != addition of bitops
20:05 est31 as I see, the reason why we cant use bitops, is because its not in builtin lua
20:05 est31 so when we added that lib to builtin lua, we could use them
20:21 hmmmm celeron55:  still nobody could find the singleplayer regression
20:21 hmmmm frankly we're not waiting for it anymore
20:21 MichaelRpdx joined #minetest-dev
20:22 hmmmm but there are two blockers that nobody has stepped up to the plate for... I said if nobody does them I will
20:23 celeron55 i reworded the post a bit to not accuse you of it 8)
20:24 hmmmm eh, it's valid
20:24 hmmmm i haven't been very active
20:26 celeron55 well, i changed it back then, lol
20:29 acerspyro joined #minetest-dev
20:29 hmmmm in the interests of making a release soon, what do you say to temporarily reverting https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d1d6a97b1cd05ec34358b6519fc232fc158cf521
20:34 hmmmm honestly I don't understand how I would make the change I am trying to do while preserving all the quirky behavior that users seem to love
20:36 celeron55 reverting any of that sounds like a permanent change
20:36 celeron55 nobody is going to go back to it
20:36 celeron55 and, i guess it can mean that we have to drop android as it absolutely requires scaling to be usable
20:36 celeron55 it's a very slippery slope
20:37 hmmmm i believe there is value in that commit, but it wreaks havok on PC
20:37 hmmmm right now it's either, you specify an explicit size or the whole thing is scaled by window size
20:37 hmmmm what it used to be is scaled by text size
20:37 est31 we can do the android build with that commit enabled, and the PC build with that commit disabled until we find out how to get it work on both platforms
20:38 hmmmm so naturally you have different formspec scaling modes
20:38 hmmmm explicit, window, text, and i guess DPI (but not right now)
20:39 hmmmm if an explicit size is not specified, then the default scaling mode is either window or text settable by configuration file
20:39 hmmmm and, as you might have guessed, for android the default setting is "use window scaling" and for PC, "text scaling"
20:40 hmmmm so what I am doing right at this very moment is trying to figure out how exactly the scaling works... it doesn't seem like it's per-element
20:40 hmmmm size is read per-element but the decision to use window scaling or explicit size is done for the entire window
20:41 hmmmm I simply do not understand the rationale for a lot of these kinds of things I'm finding
20:41 hmmmm but of course changing it to something sane gets people complaining
20:41 hmmmm or maybe it's genius and I simply can't see the beauty of the design
20:49 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
20:54 hmmmm ah okay, i misunderstood. i didn't realize that there is only one size specifier for the entire formspec
20:55 est31 there is hud_scaling and gui_scaling
20:59 SudoAptGetPlay joined #minetest-dev
21:10 DFeniks_ joined #minetest-dev
21:16 prozacgod joined #minetest-dev
21:16 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
21:28 hmmmm can somebody explain to me wtf this is SUPPOSED to do?  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d1d6a97b1cd05ec34358b6519fc232fc158cf521​#diff-65f34680878a6bd86f3a59ebc0c06c6dL286
21:31 est31 fireglow: can you upload the mapfile?
21:31 fireglow sorry, it's leveldb
21:32 est31 can be uploaded too
21:32 fireglow alpha :: minetest/world » du -h -d 1 map.db
21:32 fireglow 3.9G    map.db
21:32 fireglow :S
21:32 fireglow I can, sure
21:32 * est31 has a 25 mbps line
21:33 fireglow nice
21:33 fireglow let me make a snapshot
21:34 est31 that code on the forums worrks? great gonna deploy it too
21:37 fireglow est31: compressing...
22:11 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
22:13 darkwing_duck joined #minetest-dev
22:21 kahrl hmmmm: the link points to an empty line
22:50 leat joined #minetest-dev
22:51 Eivel joined #minetest-dev
22:53 JZTech101 joined #minetest-dev
23:35 roniz joined #minetest-dev
23:54 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
23:54 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext