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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-01-13

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Time Nick Message
00:02 zat joined #minetest-dev
00:02 acerspyro Kodexky: ?
00:03 acerspyro Did you mean ctcp acerspyro version?
00:03 acerspyro oh
00:03 acerspyro I see what it does :P
00:03 Kodexky sorry faulty mouse. once i buy a new one i'll burn this one.
00:04 acerspyro lol
00:04 acerspyro Just buy one already!
00:05 acerspyro Can't be that broke that you have to wait to buy yourself a new mouse!
00:06 Kodexky not broke, just chained to the keyboard trying to avoid a deadline.
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01:53 VanessaE those broken mapblocks can actually look like artsy at times:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2001122015%20-%2008%3a49%3a29%20PM.png
01:53 VanessaE look kinda artsy*
02:07 hmmmm that's because those colored blocks use up so gosh darn much of the content-space
02:07 hmmmm the probability is high it'd be one of those types of blocks
02:09 VanessaE yep, but it looks neat though :)
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02:37 paramat that looks good
02:51 paramat http://cubeupload.com/im/rZWVwm.png lordawe has posted weird mapblocks too, note moretrees is in use in most of these screenshots, perhaps a connection?
03:03 VanessaE paramat: the ones I was posting are caused by the spawn_l_tree call in the engine
03:04 paramat ah that
03:04 VanessaE it pre-allocates space for a tree, but sometimes exceeds it before the map can be fully generated, and the result is garbage mapblocks
03:05 paramat can't see a fixing commit..
03:05 Zeno` Still working on it
03:05 paramat cool =)
03:05 hmmmm that's the theory, at least
03:05 Zeno` it's the theory, yes :)
03:05 hmmmm in practice I can't see any such error
03:06 hmmmm sure the treegen code is extremely sloppy but there aren't any apparent bugs
03:06 paramat hasn't happened here
03:08 Zeno` I know what the bug is (most likely), I just can't reliably trigger it :/
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03:12 paramat new mgv7 caves is almost ready for initial review, PR incoming
03:13 hmmmm WTF is load_if_inexistent anyway
03:14 hmmmm i don't remember writing that
03:14 hmmmm i think the bug is more likely to be in the mapgen
03:14 Zeno` it's confusing I know that much
03:15 Zeno` does CONTENT_AIR ever use param1 and param2?
03:15 acerspyro VanessaE: you know we found glitchiness in your vanilla server earlier?¿
03:15 Zeno` I'm currently testing this: https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commit/689​708693bbb591dfba6502313c512dd67a4985e.patch
03:15 Zeno` I'd rather have memset(new_data, 0, new_size * sizeof(*new_data)); though
03:16 acerspyro oh
03:16 acerspyro That's what you guys are working on...
03:16 * acerspyro retracts himself
03:16 paramat air must use param1 for light?
03:16 hmmmm that's not fixing the bug though, zeno
03:16 Zeno` but why is VOXELFLAG_NO_DATA apparently ignored? I.e. I thought if the flage was VOXELFLAG_NO_DATA then it shouldn't even matter if the "node" is random (unitialised) data
03:17 hmmmm voxelmanipulator flags are kind of stupid in that they're never used
03:17 hmmmm it sounds like a great idea but in the actual usage of voxelmanipulator you simply find yourself not needing it... ever
03:19 hmmmm okay, so apparently I did write load_if_inexistent
03:19 acerspyro Are those garbage blocks produced possible to replicate as an item?
03:19 acerspyro Say, weirdly shaped stuff and smaller blocks
03:21 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/2c0b51795e6fa6747d881f1871c89830abb6e6e8
03:21 paramat do post any new screenshots of these crashy mapblocks, they're amusing
03:22 hmmmm waay back in 0.4.8 i made that
03:22 hmmmm yeah ewh
03:22 hmmmm i remember that bug
03:24 hmmmm so I don't think celeron's original voxelmanipulator inexisting block handling has any place at all within modern day minetest - it caused nothing but problems :(
03:25 acerspyro I had one a while ago
03:25 acerspyro If someone could check the #minetest logs
03:31 Zeno` well since they're never used that's how I introduced the bug. I should have made sure they were used :/
03:31 Zeno` Didn't know I'd need to check that, heh
03:31 hmmmm :/
03:31 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/714a4f85070770e81a1b0280d2c300dade9d3f7d
03:32 Zeno` except it might not be the bug
03:33 paramat hmmmm, #2123 is ready for initial review, the new tunnels look really good
03:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2123 -- Mgv7: New cave system with fewer original large caves and new 3D noise tunnels by paramat
03:33 Zeno` maybe that's it then? Because I removed my fix an added a breakpoint for when that inexistent (is that a word?) is used and I can't see any corrupt blocks (been trying for 30 minutes)
03:34 acerspyro nonexistent
03:35 paramat would it seriously break worlds to reduce lava range to 4? seems more appropriate for a thick liquid and reduces liquid queue overload
03:35 hmmmm Zeno`, I guess it makes sense.  can you explain how data gets initialized there?
03:36 Zeno` initialised where?
03:36 hmmmm in initialEmerge
03:36 hmmmm if the block is nonexistant
03:37 hmmmm blitBackAll disregards all voxelflags
03:37 Zeno` yeah...
03:37 hmmmm if you do an initialEmerge and load_if_inexistent is set to false I don't see how it *wouldn't* write back corrupt data
03:37 hmmmm ..but I personally haven't seen any of these corrupt blocks myself
03:38 Zeno` I meant maybe what you changed is the real issue and I am chasing a red herring
03:38 hmmmm what you changed in your last gist is not solving the problem
03:38 Zeno` apparently not
03:39 hmmmm that just partially undoes some optimization to account for a use of uninitialized data in voxelmanipulator
03:39 Zeno` yep... Zeno`> except it might not be the bug
03:39 Zeno` I should have said "the actual bug"
03:40 Zeno` I just wish I could reproduce (I have once)
03:40 Zeno` but not when I was actually wanting it to happen >.<
03:41 Zeno` looking at the code I think your fix is the more likely the /actual/ error
03:42 hmmmm TODO:  explain to me how there aren't way more corrupt mapblocks than what we're seeing now?
03:44 paramat back in 1hr..
03:44 paramat left #minetest-dev
03:45 Zeno` hopefully paramat is off making a test case that can reproduce the bug
03:47 Zeno` hang on...
03:47 Zeno` what if a schematic is loaded into a inexistent area?
03:47 * Zeno` looks at that area of code
03:48 hmmmm nothing
03:49 hmmmm i fixed the only call to initialEmerge with that optiona boolean set
03:50 Zeno` so is that boolean actually used anywhere else?
03:50 Zeno` maybe it can be deleted hehe
03:51 hmmmm for historical reasons, i wouldn't
03:52 Zeno` maybe. It's only used in 5 places and they (since your fix) all default to true now
03:53 Zeno` 6 places
03:57 Zeno` In any case, you fix *looks* like it should work
03:57 Zeno` s/you/your
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05:56 hmmmm well
05:56 hmmmm i guess we'll come back to this issue in a week or so and see if there are any more reports of the uninitialized mapblock problem
05:57 hmmmm if people think it's as interesting as they say it is, why don't they just make a mod for it... generating blobs of random nodes
06:05 paramat i think Vanessa's mods have so many nodes they colourfully vomit some up
06:06 hmmmm yeah i've always wanted to add a "colorlike" drawtype that stores an index in the available param2 bits to an RGB tint color in content features
06:07 VanessaE I've pulled to HEAD again for the server, so the attempt to fix those corrupt mapblocks will be in place after the restart (~20 mins)
06:07 VanessaE servers*
06:07 hmmmm so for example, stairs have 8 bits available to it but it has facedir which takes up 5, leaving 3 for colorlike.  so you can reduce the 100 nodes of the same exact thing to more like 13
06:08 hmmmm this is super simple it's just that I never did it for some reason
06:08 VanessaE hmmmm: because there are a LOT more than 8 colors, even the base game has 15 or something.
06:08 hmmmm what?
06:09 VanessaE 3 bits for a color spec?
06:09 hmmmm if there's 3 bits available, that's 3 bits more than there used to be
06:09 VanessaE that's 8 colors, unless I'm counting bits wrong...
06:09 VanessaE you couldn't even represent the Wool mod with that
06:09 hmmmm you can reduce 100 different nodes to about 13, that's a pretty huge win in my opinion.
06:09 hmmmm i have literally no clue how you could be bitching about this.
06:10 VanessaE who's bitching?
06:10 hmmmm you...
06:10 VanessaE O_o
06:10 * VanessaE looks over at paramat
06:10 hmmmm you're complaining that this is a horrible stupid idea
06:10 hmmmm because i can only fit 8 possible values in 3 bits
06:10 * paramat stays out of it
06:10 VanessaE I'm saying it's the wrong way to handle it entirely.
06:11 hmmmm what's the right way, pray tell, vanessae?
06:11 VanessaE the only right way is one which I already know you'll reject anyway
06:11 hmmmm erm..
06:11 VanessaE add another byte.  call it param3 and make it multipurpose if you want
06:12 hmmmm having small mapnodes is a huge win over other minecraft-like games
06:13 hmmmm if it weren't for you and sapier crying about mobs, i could have 4 more bits from param1
06:13 VanessaE wat
06:14 hmmmm doubling the size of a mapnode == no
06:15 hmmmm you saw the massif output graphs... the vast majority of the minetest memory usage is MapBlocks
06:15 VanessaE look, the only way those 8 bits are gonna work out in practice is if they point to a palette that's stored in the node's metadata
06:15 VanessaE er 3 bits
06:15 hmmmm you'd double the memory consumption for one
06:15 hmmmm probably double the average map size
06:15 hmmmm double the amount of cache misses
06:15 hmmmm double the amount of time it'd take to blit mapblocks around
06:16 VanessaE 4 bytes to 5 somehow equates to double the map size?
06:16 hmmmm yup...
06:16 VanessaE did I miss a lesson in math?
06:16 hmmmm you did
06:16 VanessaE when I last checked, that was a maximum of 25% more, not 100%...
06:16 VanessaE but that's immaterial now
06:16 hmmmm ugh
06:17 hmmmm you, taoki, and mauvebic seem to keep forgetting that you can't add just *one* more byte
06:17 VanessaE like I already said before I even suggested it, I expected a rejection
06:17 hmmmm i explained this about 10 times
06:19 hmmmm the very VERY least amount of size it would be is 6 bytes in order for things to be aligned in memory and not crash.  but the compiler would most likely round it out to 8 bytes for speed and memory access convenience
06:19 hmmmm so it's like
06:19 VanessaE wait wait wait
06:19 VanessaE you're speaking strictly about in-memory?
06:19 hmmmm have your 5 byte data structure get padded out to 8 and waste 3 bytes?
06:19 hmmmm of course i'm talking about in-memory
06:19 VanessaE I was speaking about the on-disk size.  last I knew, databases didn't align themselves to words/longs/whatever
06:20 hmmmm on disk size is IRRELEVANT
06:20 VanessaE um
06:20 VanessaE it's quite relevant
06:20 hmmmm those parameters will most likely be 0 and compress to almost nothing
06:20 hmmmm what you would notice is the increased memory usage and cpu time
06:22 VanessaE so from 8 MB to 16.  I agree that's not exactly small change, but it's hardly the gigs and gigs you're making it sound like...
06:23 VanessaE wait, strike that, I did the math wrong.
06:23 VanessaE WAY wrong :P
06:24 hmmmm so why doesn't freeminer lead the way and make it 8 bytes
06:24 hmmmm or rather, sorry, 5 bytes :P
06:24 hmmmm see how it works out for proller
06:24 VanessaE at any rate, as I said twice now I expected you'd reject the idea.
06:26 VanessaE so now you're left with those three bits.  the bottom line here is that if you can't even represent the wool mod without splitting it across two nodes, it ain't gonna work, because you're going to create a massive headache for everyone.
06:26 hmmmm bullshit...
06:27 VanessaE ok, you tell me how you'd split the defs in a mod with say 25 distinct textures, in 12 colors each texture.
06:27 hmmmm nodename = "wool:wool_" .. (color_index / 8); hue = color_index % 8;
06:27 paramat use 8 tints to tint a few basic wool colours?
06:29 hmmmm hell - i'll even modify wool to take advantage of it
06:29 hmmmm i'll show you how to do it the right way
06:30 VanessaE ehm..that would not work for the wool mod.
06:30 paramat i can't resist agreeing with hmmmmm, mapnode should certainly not get bigger
06:31 VanessaE there are 15 specific colors in that mod, all the same texture, and they're all named
06:31 VanessaE e.g. wool:pink and so on
06:32 hmmmm obviously there needs to be something added for that
06:32 hmmmm maybe wool:wool^15 could be aliased to a wool node with param2 == 15
06:32 hmmmm or something like that
06:32 hmmmm and then wool:pink can get aliased to wool:wool^15
06:33 TriBlade9 Phew, lots to read
06:33 VanessaE and if you try doing this on a complex mod that supports the unified dyes palette, it's gonna fall down bad.  think 12-15 textures per color times 89 colors, and the palette follows a clearly-defined color spec.
06:36 TriBlade9 Oh, is this a fight?
06:36 VanessaE nope.
06:36 VanessaE just hmmmm and I misreading each other, as usual.
06:36 TriBlade9 Oh oke :3
06:38 TriBlade9 Question. Is there a reason that sounds are unable to by polyphonic?
06:38 TriBlade9 *be
06:38 TriBlade9 I just turned my sound on awhile back, and was surprised that the node-place sound had to finish before playing again. Its a bit disorienting.
06:39 hmmmm sound is fucked
06:39 hmmmm i guess it was a good first start but it needs serious work
06:39 hmmmm try setting a couple trees on fire; openal will run out of sound buffers
06:39 TriBlade9 Got it. There's a lot of things that need refining I guess.
06:40 TriBlade9 *There are
06:40 hmmmm in order for minetest to become acceptable it needs full time developers on it but everybody here has an actual life
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06:42 TriBlade9 Well, it at least needs a solid direction and agreements on what needs to be improved
06:43 TriBlade9 Someone needs to take minetest and start using it to create a playable, publicly acceptable game, and see what needs to change in the engine from there.
06:43 TriBlade9 Perhaps Voxus will help with that.
06:47 hmmmm uhh.... we know EXACTLY what needs fixing
06:47 hmmmm what we need is manpower
06:48 TriBlade9 And maybe a checklist? :P
06:48 * TriBlade9 loves checklists
06:49 Brains I did ask earlier if there was a wiki page about scut work for newbies...
06:49 hmmmm there's not a formal list of tasks... but there's a lot of performance optimization and enhancements needed on the graphics side
06:50 hmmmm sound needs a rework to be less cpu intensive (yes, it's cpu intensive somehow..), combine similar sounds, have multiple sounds play at once, etc.
06:51 * Brains was just passing by...  Sleep is necessary.
06:51 TriBlade9 Sleep is an illusion.
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07:04 Zeno` just reading back through the logs...
07:04 Zeno` what's the problem with adding an additional 8-bit param?
07:06 TriBlade9 Map size apparently.
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07:15 Zeno` err ok
07:22 hmmmm .....no.... read up
07:22 hmmmm reading isn't hard
07:23 Zeno` speak for thyself!
07:23 Zeno` I find reading hard
07:24 Zeno` But what I read...
07:24 Zeno` Wouldn't the extra byte be more of a protocol concern than an optimisation- or memory-related concern?
07:25 Zeno` an additional octet seems fairly "low impact" to me, but perhaps I'm missing something
07:28 Zeno` brb
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07:43 * VanessaE wanders off
07:44 TriBlade9 Bai Vanessa
07:44 VanessaE night :)
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08:02 Zeno` TriBlade9, what's going on with gamma?
08:03 Zeno` TriBlade9, I did have options for adjusting ambient occlusion strength initially. Is that what you're asking?
08:03 Zeno` Or are you asking why I didn't use irrlicht gamma?
08:03 Zeno` I didn't use irrlicht gamma mainly because I wanted to match to the original light table
08:04 Zeno` (for the default setting)
08:04 Zeno` But... this doesn't affect your PR does it?
08:04 TriBlade9 Zeno`, I was just wondering what the precalculated values were for.
08:04 TriBlade9 And if it would cause any trouble to change them
08:04 TriBlade9 Well, I replaced the values.
08:04 TriBlade9 With the configurable strength, which is only slightly different.
08:04 Zeno` you mean the static const float light_amount[4] ... values?
08:05 TriBlade9 Yes, indeed.
08:05 Zeno` I see no need for them to remain as they are
08:05 Zeno` you're pre-calculating them now anyway... they're just not hardcoded
08:05 TriBlade9 Alright. They just seemed to be pretty "magic number"'ish, so I was worried about changing them
08:06 Zeno` I would *guess* they were done in some strange optimisation attempt, but I don't know.
08:06 Zeno` I can't see a problem with the PR
08:06 TriBlade9 I'm also unsure of the relationship/difference between the values.
08:06 TriBlade9 See as I've added -0.1f and -0.3f to try and mimic the magic number differences. Seems to work pretty well
08:07 Zeno` It's only built once
08:07 Zeno` (referring to SN's comment and your question)
08:08 Zeno` I dunno why the magic numbers were used
08:08 TriBlade9 Alright.
08:08 Zeno` they seem to be a pre-calculated gamma of 2.2 but I don't have a calculator handy
08:08 TriBlade9 I suppose I'll play around with things, but for now I think it can't get much better.
08:09 Zeno` Yeah do so. I also played around with this but kinda stopped because 0.4.11 release was too close
08:09 Zeno` "No sense wasting CPU time even on init," I don't agree with that though :P
08:09 TriBlade9 I find the idea of different games having different ao strengths, it would give a sort of subtle difference for each game. <3
08:09 Zeno` "wasting" CPU time on init is fine (IMO)
08:09 TriBlade9 *the idea intriguing
08:10 Zeno` especially since it's a readability vs. magic numbers issue
08:10 Zeno` it's not that expensive on an FPU anyway
08:11 TriBlade9 :/
08:11 TriBlade9 C++ is so tricky to get everything just right.
08:11 TriBlade9 Sometimes I wish minetest was written in Java, then I could actually do some important stuff.
08:13 hintss ^
08:14 Zeno` well, 9 times out of 10 (or more) if you write it the obvious way it's the best way anyhow
08:15 Zeno` modern CPUs are, in a tangential way, kind of optimised for C (and therefore C++ because it has a normative reference of C) so *shrug*
08:15 TriBlade9 Yeah. I suppose this way isn't that un-obvious either.
08:15 Zeno` Well it kind of is... but it's less "magical" than before heh
08:17 TriBlade9 Wat?
08:17 TriBlade9 You silly boi.
08:18 TriBlade9 Okay, it would appear those "magic numbers" help keep the corners from being too obvious
08:18 * Zeno` cries
08:18 TriBlade9 Doing a screenshot comparison
08:19 Zeno` There is a paper on this somewhere
08:19 Zeno` Using the exact algorithm that's implemented
08:19 Zeno` I don't have it bookmarked on this computer though :(
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08:20 Zeno` the old magic numbers or the new magic numbers? :p
08:20 TriBlade9 The difference between both
08:21 Zeno` ahh ok, I see
08:21 TriBlade9 Screenies coming in a sec
08:22 TriBlade9 I think 0.2f/0.4f is best, instead of 0.1f/0.3f
08:22 TriBlade9 Makes the corners a tad darker
08:23 Zeno` just add a comment... even if it's a subjective comment like "this looks best" lol
08:23 TriBlade9 Will do
08:23 TriBlade9 I'd post a screenie, but the internet is almost dead
08:24 TriBlade9 Okay, all settings with no subtraction: https://lut.im/HbYL4rsZ/EfMST1zK
08:25 TriBlade9 0.3/0.1: https://lut.im/zwOadrkp/0pqtWCRj
08:25 TriBlade9 0.4/0.2: https://lut.im/jIMEJEKB/ri2Gi0Y4
08:31 Zeno` hmm I see
08:32 Zeno` the third one seems too strong to me
08:33 Zeno` but the first one seems wrong as well...
08:33 * Zeno` sits on the fence :D
08:35 TriBlade9 So, perhaps the second one?
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08:40 kilbith yes, 2nd one is cool
08:44 TriBlade9 Alright then, no changes need to be made to the PR
09:16 * Zeno` bangs his gravel on the bench. Merge!
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11:40 jin_xi clearly something is wrong: http://i.imgur.com/Vs714T5.png
11:40 jin_xi with luavoxelmanipulator it seems.
11:41 jin_xi also register_decoration always returns nil now? it does register stuff tho.
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12:10 Zeno` gregorycu, why is an extent empty if the two subtractions are -1,-1,-1 ?
12:11 gregorycu Because the extent includes the area it bounds
12:11 gregorycu Um...
12:11 gregorycu The extent is inclusive of the border
12:12 Zeno` is it empty if the result is 0,0,0?
12:12 gregorycu No
12:12 Zeno` ok, can you add a comment?
12:12 gregorycu Ok
12:12 gregorycu I deleted the branch, but I will redo, lol
12:13 gregorycu Does rain stop fires?
12:15 gregorycu (So, in other words, if an area is defined by two points  (1,2,3) and (1,2,3) the block at (1,2,3) is included, so the area is 1 * 1 * 1)
12:16 Zeno` I'm not really debating you, I just want it as a comment :)
12:16 gregorycu Also, I have a feeling I've found a good optimisation for your liquid troubles
12:17 Zeno` what if the subtraction is 0,0,0? what does that mean?
12:18 gregorycu You mean the result?
12:18 Zeno` yeah
12:18 Zeno` what does return MaxEdge - MinEdge == v3s16(0, 0, 0); mean? (if anything)
12:19 gregorycu It means the area is composed only by a single node, that being MaxEdge
12:19 gregorycu (I obviously didn't decided to do it like this, I just transposed the maths to make it simplier)
12:20 Zeno` I know :(
12:20 Zeno` Anyway, once a comment is added I'll merge
12:20 gregorycu It's retarded, and I don't like it
12:20 gregorycu I'll have to redo it, give me a sec
12:20 Zeno` Say it's retarded in the comment then :D
12:21 Zeno` Anyway, without a comment it makes no sense
12:21 Zeno` (although I know it's correct)
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12:33 Zeno` your branch is probably not permanently deleted on github :P
12:34 gregorycu Different PR #2125
12:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2125 -- Change UniqueQueue to use a queue and a set. by gregorycu
12:34 gregorycu No, but I should be able to just take the diff and apply it
12:36 Zeno` merging #2120 soon
12:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2120 -- Fix Android crash on keyboard connection change. by KodexKy
12:54 gregorycu must_reflow concerns me
13:05 gregorycu Zeno`: #2126
13:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2126 -- Add VoxelArea::hasEmptyExtent by gregorycu
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13:10 Zeno` Brand new PR?
13:10 gregorycu Yeah, the other branch is gone
13:11 gregorycu Wouldn't let me modify
13:11 gregorycu You can diff the diffs lol
13:11 Zeno` can't be gone because it's still there on github. I'll ignore that this time :p
13:11 Zeno` is the old PR closed?
13:11 gregorycu There is "gone" and "gone"
13:12 gregorycu Is a PR even a git thing?
13:12 Zeno` The comment needs updating :)
13:13 gregorycu ?
13:13 Zeno` yeah, you could have restored the old branch (I believe). It doesn't matter now
13:13 Zeno` and empty extent
13:13 Zeno` s/and/an
13:13 gregorycu Oh mother fucker
13:13 gregorycu I fixed that
13:14 gregorycu No, I have a pending change
13:14 gregorycu ...
13:14 gregorycu I swear I fixed that before commit
13:14 Zeno` heh
13:15 gregorycu Fuck git
13:16 Zeno` just update it :P
13:16 gregorycu frdoui fghdsfigbdsfgjdsfg
13:16 gregorycu What the fuck
13:17 gregorycu No
13:17 gregorycu Is that better?
13:18 Zeno` git squash -i HEAD~2
13:20 Zeno` I'll cherry pick it I guess
13:21 gregorycu 'squash' is not a git command
13:21 Zeno` eerr
13:21 Zeno` git rebase -i HEAD~2
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13:24 gregorycu What's with the line endings being fucked up?
13:24 gregorycu I assume that is what it is
13:24 Zeno` nah
13:25 Zeno` anyway, I've pushed :P
13:25 gregorycu Sweet, I can go back to coding
13:25 gregorycu You know, the bit that is fun
13:27 Zeno` git is pretty good. Just takes a while
13:29 gregorycu Didn't know you could get coolaid in Australia
13:29 gregorycu Or did you drink it all
13:32 gregorycu ;)
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13:44 TriBlade9 Gawddamnit, I *just* pulled master before you committed that -_-
13:45 gregorycu If it's mine, it's worth refetching
13:45 TriBlade9 :3
13:45 TriBlade9 Wait, was yours the VoxelArea one?
13:46 gregorycu Yes
13:46 TriBlade9 I mainly tweak visuals, so there's probably not much of a difference between them
13:46 gregorycu I'm only kidding, it's a slight perf improvement
13:46 TriBlade9 :P
13:46 gregorycu Bit enough to be noticable
13:46 gregorycu big
13:47 TriBlade9 Really? It didn't seem like that big a deal, at least when I glanced over it.
13:47 TriBlade9 I don't know much about C++ though, much less about optimizing it.
13:47 Zeno` merging 2102
13:47 gregorycu The devil is in the details
13:48 gregorycu The smallest things can give you perf improvements if it happens in important areas
13:48 TriBlade9 Interesting
13:48 TriBlade9 But unsurprising
13:48 TriBlade9 Zeno`, Today is performance fix day eh? :]
13:49 Zeno` I don't really believe #2102 fixes much in the way of performance, but I cannot be bothered changing the commit message :)
13:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2102 -- Performance fixes. by onkrot
13:49 Zeno` merged
13:50 TriBlade9 Damn. Pull time again -_-
13:51 Zeno` ok, no more merges from me tonight :)
13:52 TriBlade9 Oke :)
13:52 Zeno` The other PRs I haven't tested or cannot easily understand :)
13:52 TriBlade9 Wait, it's night time for you too?
13:52 TriBlade9 Which timezone are you in?
13:52 Zeno` #2116 is interesting though
13:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2116 -- Optimize vertex calculations (maths), perf improvement by nerzhul
13:52 Zeno` gmt+10
13:52 gregorycu I am +11
13:53 gregorycu Zeno is further East than me but has a less time offset
13:53 gregorycu Figure that shit out
13:53 * Zeno` looks at the sun
13:53 Zeno` makes sense to me!
13:53 Zeno` You're on DST?
13:54 TriBlade9 Trying to convert CST to GMT right now -_-
13:54 gregorycu Yes
13:54 TriBlade9 Ah, GMT+8 here
13:54 gregorycu Where is here?
13:54 gregorycu Perth?
13:54 Zeno` DST is a world war thing where coal was scarce. The idea was that people would go to bed at the same time and burn less coal. It didn't really work IMO
13:54 gregorycu Sg?
13:55 TriBlade9 China is on a single timezone through the whole country >_>
13:55 Zeno` I.e. the savings were that they would use less energy
13:55 TriBlade9 It centers on Beijing, which makes the east quite weird.
13:55 TriBlade9 *west
13:56 Zeno` gmt+10 is the same as utc+10 isn't it?
13:56 gregorycu Apart from a few seconds :)
13:57 Zeno` or maybe not. I dunno. It's kind of meaningless anyway hehe
13:58 gregorycu Anyway, I found a per improvement
13:58 gregorycu perf
13:58 gregorycu For your water Zeno`
13:58 Zeno` *my* water?
13:58 gregorycu Yep, your water
13:58 * TriBlade9 looks in Zeno`'s cup. Yep, it's quite lazy.
13:59 gregorycu Map::transformLiquids
13:59 Zeno` nope, I want nothing to do with that water/liquid
13:59 gregorycu You love it
13:59 TriBlade9 Put a ring on it perhaps?
13:59 Zeno` I didn't write it. I nothing. I see nothing. In fact, I did not even get up this mornink!
13:59 gregorycu Anyway, I'm gunna try and get some hard numbers now
14:00 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcxGFmYyPs
14:01 Zeno` I must report this!
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16:51 jin_xi hmmmm: lua voxel manipulators in latest git still broken? http://i.imgur.com/a4abRyI.png
16:52 hmmmm what do you mean by "still broken"
16:52 hmmmm they were not broken in the first place... it's not always a bug, sometimes it's the modder's fault
16:53 jin_xi i read commit log about some fix therefore still. maybe i misread. its a mod that worked well and now places blocks of random nodes
16:53 hmmmm after that specific commit?
16:53 jin_xi no also before
16:53 hmmmm sorry, I call bullshit.  there's no logical way for that to happen based on what i changed.
16:54 hmmmm well, maybe the mod is wrong.  why not review the mod code first for errors.
16:54 jin_xi as i said its a new phenomenon for not so new code. another thing is that register_decoration seems to return nil as of recently
16:55 hmmmm maybe shadowninja's register_<mapgenthinghere> wrappers don't pass along the return value
16:56 hmmmm what is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/0fd1ee03808ee8121e7b65e5c7c9ba19599d185e ?? this is a dumb commit name
16:57 hmmmm "Use the std::wstring variant of wgettext in most cases to avoid c string conversion" or something
16:57 hmmmm welp
16:58 hmmmm can't say that this wasn't my fault, he did ask me if it looked good before pushing to upstream
17:01 hmmmm why is register_biome separate from register_ore and register_decoration ...
17:01 hmmmm also this code is broken for clear_registered_biomes etc.
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17:36 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/a4a6cc8eb1197648bce9bec1f0a1aa6aa4b787b7
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17:56 celeron55 "I was wondering if u guys could add horses to the game and was wondering if u could make a ccomplete open source version of minetest one that is easier to edit the code. I'm wanting to make my own version but can't figure out how to."
17:57 hmmmm hah
17:57 celeron55 holy shit these people are insane
17:57 celeron55 (people who email me directly for whatever random reasons)
17:58 hmmmm i used to have a policy of not ignoring people, but how do you even respond to that without lowering your intelligence
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18:00 celeron55 i also got some spam from some advertisement company to the domain contact address
18:01 celeron55 i don't even get what they are trying to sell but... oh well
18:08 rubenwardy So much forum spam :(
18:15 kilbith "We need more moderators" (C)
18:15 kilbith yes, we know
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18:17 rubenwardy Better captcha would be better than more moderators
18:18 kilbith you're constantly requesting for more mods
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18:19 Calinou captcha annoys everyone, it is not a solution
18:19 Calinou report the spam and we deal with it. that's all there is to it
18:24 Krock more spammers = more moderators?
18:31 rubenwardy Captcha: 1. It only needs to be on new users. 2. Moderators are very slow. Different time zones. They're only human. Today there has been 6 posts left on for at least 8 hours. 3. I meant to imply other prevention under 'captcha' such as email checking. 4. I came in on c55 talking about spam, and assumed you were talking about forum spam. ("also")
18:34 Calinou is e-mail checking done currently?
18:35 rubenwardy Don't know. stopforumspam.com is a good resource, there'll be a plugin for phpbb.
18:35 rubenwardy Although don't ban IPs - they change
18:37 Calinou banning spambots is mostly useless
18:37 Calinou we do it when we have time
18:37 Calinou (which is, often)
18:37 Calinou usually spambots only make a few posts and leave, because they know they get banned
19:37 sapier does anyone know nerzhul ?
19:58 Krock omg that pull looks.. interesting. two commits for changing the same thing just in an other way.. they should be squashed
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19:59 sapier yes and coding style is a mess too but the direction is correct
19:59 Krock exactly
20:00 sapier I'm not exactly sure but it even seems to be compatible to old clients/servers
20:01 Krock it requires a good testing be4 anything is merged. I don't have an overview in those codes
20:02 Krock at least the vertex calculation looks ok.
20:22 hmmmm hum
20:23 hmmmm what's the situation with driver types and opengles on irrlicht?  i noticed that the driver config strings are only present in the array being checked against when support is compiled in
20:24 hmmmm does this mean that ogles1 and ogles2 have the same enumeration value when being passed along to irrlicht?
20:24 hmmmm and what if both of them are supported on the same device?  the enumeration ids change then...
20:24 sapier I don't think so
20:25 sapier I meant same enumeration value
20:25 hmmmm yeah but what if _IRR_COMPILE_WITH_OGLES1_ is set but not _IRR_COMPILE_WITH_OGLES2_
20:25 hmmmm then ogles1 will be 5
20:26 sapier can you show me the code you're talking about?
20:26 hmmmm but if the opposite is true, ogles1 is compiled in but not ogles2, ogles2 is the same enum value of 5
20:26 hmmmm i don't know anything about android so i don't know if this is correct, intentional behavior or not
20:27 sapier let me check but for what I remember on android the enum always contains all driver types
20:28 sapier yes the enum doesn't depend on compile with flags
20:28 hmmmm i dunno about you, but my distribution of irrlicht doesn't define opengl es at all
20:28 hmmmm it goes right from EDT_OPENGL to EDT_COUNT
20:28 sapier true that's a change in current irrlicht android branch
20:28 hmmmm this is why i'm confused... the documentation also reports the same
20:28 hmmmm the online documentation
20:28 sapier if they don't merge it that way we have to adjust it
20:29 sapier irrlicht android branch isn't yet merged to main irrlicht code
20:30 hmmmm nothing happens with irrlicht
20:30 hmmmm it's such an incredibly inactive project
20:30 hmmmm probably not as bad as xfce though...
20:30 sapier true but right now we don't have an issue there, do we?
20:31 hmmmm well, no, not if _IRR_COMPILE_WITH_OGLES2_ implies _IRR_COMPILE_WITH_OGLES1_
20:31 hmmmm i don't know if that's true or not though.
20:32 sapier right now we always compile both but you're right that might change. Do we check for those flags on driver detection?
20:32 hmmmm yes
20:33 sapier we shouldn't
20:33 sapier but wait, right now we need to check for it to decide about the enum beeing present at all
20:34 sapier we shouldn't have to check for it but as gles is inofficial that's a workaround
20:34 hmmmm shouldn't irrlicht device creation simply fail if it's passed an enum value unsupported or out of bounds
20:34 hmmmm but we don't even need to bother because the index we scan for the driver name is bounded by EDT_COUNT
20:35 sapier where's the code you could be right about this
20:36 hmmmm it's toward the bottom of main.cpp... i'm changing it anyway, not really a big issue
20:37 sapier ah ... well just remove the ifdefs but add a comment about those id's beeing inofficial
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20:38 sapier wait you have to fix the for loop too
20:38 hmmmm i wanted to split it up into several functions and put it into porting.cpp with the rest of the irrlicht-related things
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20:39 sapier well I guess you don't need my advice on doing so ;-)
20:39 hmmmm so you have a std::vector<irr::core::E_DRIVER_TYPE> getSupportedDrivers() and then g_driver_name[] = { blah blah }
20:39 hmmmm this way it's shared between main and l_mainmenu
20:40 hmmmm and the options config
20:40 sapier I'd suggest adding some poritng::getDriveName(irr::core::E_DRIVER_TYPE) function
20:41 sapier this way you wouldn't have to cast driver type to int to get the name
20:42 hmmmm that's true
20:42 hmmmm i really dislike the way C++ handles enums
20:42 sapier well it's quite consequent ;-)
20:43 sapier a enum ain't an integer
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20:43 sapier I'm not even sure standard requires an enum to start at 0 if it's not manually specified
20:44 hmmmm it does actually
20:44 hmmmm ... in fact i think we went through this already...
20:44 hmmmm or nevermind that was kahrl
20:44 sapier well it doesn't matter
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22:26 ShadowNinja updatepo.sh tweaks, fixes #2053: http://sprunge.us/JGRQ?diff
22:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2053 -- German Ingame-Translation is broken in 0.4.11
22:27 ShadowNinja Also uses long options since they're 10x more readable.
22:28 ShadowNinja I could split it.
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22:57 VanessaE hmmmm: your attempt to fix the corrupt blocks failed.  Unless the reporter is wrong, this is all in new terrain today:  http://imgur.com/0r8whs9
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23:01 TriBlade9 Huh, there's no way in Lua to set the width of an extruded weildmesh is there?
23:02 TriBlade9 I'll have to take a look into that, could be quite useful for items like bricks or lumps.
23:08 TriBlade9 Nvm, there already is apparently.
23:20 VanessaE [01-13 18:20] <xxxxxx> *sigh* i just watched another one appear before my eyes >.<
23:20 VanessaE come on guys, this shit is destroying my maps
23:23 hmmmm oh, let me just magically come up with the solution
23:23 hmmmm we're just not trying hard enough
23:23 VanessaE um.... more like you're not *testing* enough
23:24 VanessaE I've got *one* guy finding these left right and sideways
23:24 hmmmm um.. i am.
23:24 VanessaE then how come he finds them and you don't?  nevermind if you can fix the problem -- I get that -- you keep saying you never even *see* them happening
23:24 hmmmm why don't you do something useful like give us the mods he was using and try instructing him how to isolate the offending mod instead of complaining about how we're not working hard enough
23:24 VanessaE Dreambuilder Game.
23:24 hmmmm that's an entire game.
23:25 hmmmm a game is composed of one or more games.
23:25 hmmmm mods.
23:25 VanessaE he's not "using" a mod.  he's just exploring new terrain
23:25 VanessaE that's all.
23:25 hmmmm you're using a mod if you're exporing new terrain any single one of those mods calls register_on_generated().
23:25 VanessaE so pretty much the only things that kick in at that point are plantlife and moretrees
23:25 VanessaE and those don't use lua-side vmanips
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23:26 hmmmm so then disable moretrees and see if that fixes the problem.  we'd know exactly where to look if it does.
23:26 VanessaE I believe zeno already went down that road
23:27 hmmmm and?
23:27 VanessaE he got it down to just minetest_game + plantlife + moretrees as being enough to at least intermittently cause the failure
23:27 hmmmm how about removing plantlife just to be absolutely sure
23:29 VanessaE impossible.
23:29 VanessaE plantlife does not use vmanip at all.
23:29 hmmmm again:  WHO THE HELL SAID IT WAS VMANIP
23:29 VanessaE um, you did?
23:29 hmmmm i didn't
23:29 hmmmm it could be, it might not be
23:30 hmmmm why does everything have to be an argument with you
23:30 VanessaE well what else can it be?  at this point the only operations being performed that write to the map are set_node() and spawn_tree()
23:30 hmmmm why don't you try doing something different in your life aside from minetest
23:30 hmmmm chill the fuck out.
23:30 VanessaE wat
23:30 hmmmm jeez.
23:30 * VanessaE wanders off
23:30 VanessaE enough of this shit
23:30 hmmmm in any case it could be either spawn_tree() or set_node()
23:30 hmmmm i need to look at both.
23:48 jin_xi hm. i get deco ids starting from -1.
23:49 hmmmm that means registration failed
23:49 jin_xi oh good

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