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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-01-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 kilbith sapier, tested your fixes. 1.0 scaling (still too big) : https://mediacru.sh/5d8b9692bfbb
00:11 kilbith at 0.85, the GUI scaling is nice (should be set by default) but the fonts still too skinny : https://mediacru.sh/04d769827be2
00:14 sapier don't bother to do any testing kilbith I'm already about to revert it
00:14 kilbith hmm no, i revert what i said. At 800x600 resolution and 0.85, the GUI scaling is not OK : https://mediacru.sh/GN_fmixLJCvy
00:14 sapier I'll switch android port to a new improved interpreter and you pc only guys can do what you want on it I don't care any longer
00:14 ShadowNinja sapier: GUI scaling is fine.  Font scaling just has to be static.
00:15 sapier You can fix it later I'm tired about having everyone tell different things
00:15 sapier btw I already reverted this part about 6h ago it still wasn't enough
00:15 kilbith the chat bug seems to be fixed, though
00:15 sapier that's been when I decided it's not worth continueing
00:15 ShadowNinja sapier: Are fonts scaled to points now?
00:16 ShadowNinja If so, it should be fine now.
00:16 sapier read logs sfan5 still wasn't ok with it at all
00:17 ShadowNinja I'll check it myself soon.
00:17 ShadowNinja sapier: I noticed that I can't select servers in your latest android build.
00:18 ShadowNinja Quick fix or should I make an issue?
00:18 sapier don't waste your time I'm switching pc version back to old broken version, of course everyone will be free to use the fixed  interpreter there too but only android will default to it
00:19 sapier I don't know I'm gonna handle it once I completed the formspec rollback
00:19 ShadowNinja Just disable it in the non-Android build for now.
00:20 sapier it's not a feature you can disable
00:20 ShadowNinja sapier: #ifdef __ANDROID__
00:20 sapier it's a major modification to positioning and I'm not gonna mix up both stypes of positioning
00:21 sapier pc formspecs would still react to dpi, a thing they didn't on 0.4.9
00:21 sapier so the only way to get identical result is switching everything back to old code
00:24 ShadowNinja sapier: I thought you said it was needed for Android.
00:24 sapier that's why I'm gonna place the fixed interpreter in parallel
00:24 ShadowNinja sapier: With ifdefs?
00:24 sapier no
00:24 ShadowNinja sapier: How then?
00:24 sapier I'm gonna use the formspec version
00:25 sapier version 2xxx will be automatically routed to new interpreter
00:25 ShadowNinja Er, that's a server-side server-wide field.
00:25 sapier well it is now
00:25 sapier if you don't agree to this I can just add a new field formspec_type=interpreterv2
00:26 sapier or interpreter_version
00:26 ShadowNinja sapier: I'm not entirely convinced that this can't be done without breaking everything.
00:27 sapier it can be done it's less work then continuing to try to make everyone happy as I don't longer believe this task is possible at all
00:28 ShadowNinja sapier: Anyway, do you know of any other GUI description languages that we can implement?  HTML would be good because it's pretty complete, but I don't know if that's even possible with Irrlicht.
00:29 sapier ShadowNinja even if I did know I'm tired about discussing this topic any serious attempt to rewrite formspec will cost about 4 weeks of fulltime develomplent and then everyone will be against it
00:31 sapier and html is still only half of it you need event processing ... at least html form handling design would match our current way of handling forms
00:32 ShadowNinja sapier: Just provide a PR / pull and wait a bit before you do anything drastic.  HTML seems like a huge ammount of work, if it's even doable.
00:33 ezraanderson not sure how complicated it is, but is it possible to FOB the gui objects to a static size 1280x720 then scale it accordingly. I however think its a non-issue and scaling seems fine the way it is
00:34 sapier I'm gonna provide the pull reverting and moving androud to own interpreter ... that's gonna be my last pull for formspec (maybe except of the android part)
00:34 ShadowNinja Idea: give client-side Lua wrappers around Irrlicht's GUI functions and have it generate forms itself.
00:34 sapier I don't understand how this is supposed to help?
00:34 ShadowNinja That way you don't have to cache formspecs in node meta.
00:34 ShadowNinja sapier: No hacky GUI language.
00:34 sapier sounds like "client theme" to me
00:35 ShadowNinja It will still have scaling issues though.
00:35 sapier it's even more hacky as you'd have to keep bothe consistent theme engine as well as formspec engine
00:35 sapier well we can discuss this once I completed my current task
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02:33 sapier ShadowNinja: I'm gonna have to split simple and mainmenu completely again as the formspecs for them will require different positions
02:46 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2096
02:46 sapier back to 0.4.9
02:46 hmmmm well hey
02:46 sapier I' mgonna fix android once this is merged
02:47 hmmmm i don't see why you need to revert the entire thing to make formspec scaling work the way it used to
02:47 sapier incompatible to current formspec engine but with consistent positioning
02:47 sapier I'm not gonna add compatibility code there but just cut off all ancient things
02:48 hmmmm oh nevermind
02:48 hmmmm i thought you got rid of fontengine which i liked a lot
02:48 sapier hmmmm it's just impossible to make it scale as before but fix the issue "it's not scaling"
02:48 sapier 0.4.9 contained hardcoded offsets and position dependencys to font size
02:48 hmmmm hrmmm
02:48 sapier it's simply not possible to fix this without having to change the formspecs
02:49 hmmmm I'm personally ok with breaking compatibility here
02:49 hmmmm the next version, whatever that may be, i guess could be an era of new stuff that lacks compatibility but works properly with no hacks
02:50 sapier we could get close but obviously close will never be close enough for a couple of ppl so let them have their own broken thing and do a new correct version used on android only ... at least for the time beeing
02:50 sapier no hmmm I'm not gonna put any effort in pc formspec code
02:51 sapier I'm gonna do it right for android but I wont touch the regular mainmenu stuff
02:51 sapier if I did I was in exactly same fight I'm right now
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04:49 paramat yes i really like the new fonts, i hope we keep them, nicely defined instead of fuzzy and rounded as they were before
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05:36 VanessaE jesus fuck.  how hard is it to just make formspecs behave like a regular GUI would?  fonts specified in points, some default size that's similar to 0.4.9, fixed size across the board by default unless a mod explicitly requests a larger size, and not dependent on window size?
05:37 VanessaE G*d this is two days in a row I've missed out on this huge-ass argument
05:37 VanessaE (and both times, someone highlighted me at some point)
05:41 Zeno` You sleep too much, you miss out on the action :P
05:41 VanessaE I was watching movies.
05:56 Zeno` ShadowNinja, how is #2099 related to 2095?
05:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2099 -- server flag icons dont show
05:57 Zeno` Oh, you mean 2095 might fix the issue (after incorporating your comment)?
05:57 ShadowNinja Zeno`: Both involve missing minetest.formspec_escape with paths.
05:58 Zeno` yes I understand now. I thought you meant 2095 caused it. My bad
05:58 ShadowNinja The PR has to be extended to the other images too though.
05:58 Zeno` yeah
06:02 VanessaE hmmmm: we have a serious mapgen problem
06:03 VanessaE I've seen at least two reports of this:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2001102015%20-%2001%3a03%3a25%20AM.png
06:03 VanessaE and now it's happening on MY server also
06:03 VanessaE there is NO code in any of my mods that can possibly do this
06:04 VanessaE (except for the trees and plants on the top, those had to be added after the "corrupt" blocks were generated)
06:04 hmmmm that looks pretty interesting
06:04 hmmmm fun is the word
06:05 hmmmm i've done nothing that could result in that sort of thing.  but it looks like out-of-bounds memory access at first glance
06:06 hmmmm sorry .. i have not seen anything like this
06:06 Zeno` it's... strange
06:08 VanessaE hmmmm: yeah you have,
06:08 VanessaE you showed me a screenshot the other day
06:08 hmmmm ?
06:08 VanessaE diagonal "stripes" of blocks running through the corrupt block
06:08 VanessaE s/blocks/nodes/
06:08 hmmmm that was like a month ago
06:08 VanessaE maybe a month ago then - this isn't an up-to-date build, it's a bit old, fairly close to 0.4.11
06:09 hmmmm that wasn't an existing bug, it was a laughably failed attempt at adding write-without-read LuaVoxelManip functionality
06:09 VanessaE well this looks exactly like that screenshot you showed.
06:09 hmmmm i thought the pattern it made was neat so I pasted it.  that code never made it into minetest
06:09 hmmmm so i uploaded and pasted a link to it*
06:10 VanessaE right
06:10 hmmmm s/pasted/posted/
06:10 VanessaE I wonder if what you saw is indicative of something you *weren't* working on, but merely uncovered?
06:10 Zeno` Another screenshot of the same area but from above: http://i.imgur.com/0adAW4s.jpg
06:11 hmmmm no, it wasn't at all.  that is completely unrelated to what you're seeing.
06:11 VanessaE ok
06:11 hmmmm what would be very helpful is measuring the dimensions of the messed up part, and the coordinates
06:11 VanessaE sure, one moment.
06:11 hmmmm in that second screenshot i can tell it's a mapblock wide but no clue on the rest of it
06:12 VanessaE one corner is at ~10016,78,174
06:12 VanessaE opposite to that is ~9967,63,144
06:12 VanessaE that's for the one that is on the right in my screenshot, left in zeno's
06:12 hmmmm what's the ~ for
06:13 VanessaE approximate - the corners contain a lot of air
06:13 VanessaE lemme see if I can narrow it down
06:13 hmmmm so i'll assume you actually meant 9968
06:14 hmmmm and i think you're wrong about the y dimension
06:14 VanessaE hold, I'll use worldedit to get the exact coords.
06:14 VanessaE there.  9968,64,144 to 10015,80,175
06:15 paramat weird 8)
06:15 VanessaE there's a 1-node variation at the top, might be from mudflow
06:15 hmmmm well the bottom corner is accurate at least 8)
06:15 hmmmm so that's 48x16x32
06:15 hmmmm 3x1x2
06:16 VanessaE no
06:16 hmmmm yeah, beats me..
06:16 VanessaE at least 2 mapblocks thick
06:16 hmmmm =/
06:16 hmmmm 80 - 64 = 16, 16 is one mapblock
06:16 hmmmm don't know how to say it any other way
06:16 hmmmm that's one mapblock
06:16 VanessaE hm, you're right, I miscounted
06:16 VanessaE so yeah 3x1x2
06:17 hmmmm those aren't the right dimensions for being a mapchunk border issue
06:17 VanessaE the other section seems to be 3x1x1
06:17 hmmmm hmm
06:18 hmmmm wonder if this is a mod issue
06:18 VanessaE I don't see how, there are no mods on this server that can create terrain like this
06:18 VanessaE (and plantlife only adds stuff on top of e.g. dirt with grass, as you saw in the screenshot)
06:19 paramat no wonder that tower block is flying with all those rotor blades
06:19 VanessaE paramat: haha
06:19 Zeno` lol
06:20 VanessaE worldedit's //inspect command can't identify the "unknown" nodes in the chunk composed thereof
06:20 VanessaE nor are they identified in the F5 display
06:20 hmmmm yes... because it's garbage data
06:21 VanessaE it's impossible for a mod to write this stuff even *with* a vmanip, isn't it?
06:21 hmmmm that's what i'm trying to figure out right now
06:21 VanessaE ok
06:21 hmmmm obviously it's not impossible because a mod can write anything they want to the vmanip
06:22 VanessaE if it matters, nodes within the mess that produce light are correctly lighted
06:22 hmmmm but it's not possible that the memory is allocated without being initialized in the vmanip
06:23 VanessaE pieces of this were copied from elsewhere on the map, I recognize part of it
06:23 hmmmm well i really can't come to any conclusions at this point.
06:24 VanessaE there are centrifuges here with teleport tubes already connected, this particular configuration is something I know cheapie built near the server's spawn
06:24 VanessaE (it's not something any mod can generate, it has to be hand-placed)
06:26 hmmmm well like i said, that's garbage data
06:26 VanessaE fair enough
06:26 hmmmm it's not unheard of that some of the garbage data it read happened to be leftover from mapblocks it previously had allocated there
06:26 hmmmm i don't think it's significant
06:27 paramat hopefully a very rare but cool occurence, adds interest to a world
06:27 VanessaE ok.  safe to nuke it then?
06:27 hmmmm yeah
06:27 VanessaE all right
06:27 hmmmm the only really important details I can get from this are:
06:28 hmmmm - it's probably a voxelmanipulator related issue, not a mapgen issue
06:28 hmmmm - it's not related to map chunk borders
06:28 hmmmm - it's uninitialized data or data read out of bounds
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07:05 kahrl uh, what is #2099 about
07:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2099 -- server flag icons dont show
07:06 kahrl image_column clearly calls formspec_escape so I don't get it
07:07 hmmmm hrmm, what is the correct way to use FontEngine::getTextWidth() on a wide string
07:08 kahrl hmmmm: what do you mean? > const std::wstring& text
07:08 hmmmm ahhh stupid IDE
07:08 hmmmm that helps
07:12 paramat please could someone review my new PR #2103 ?
07:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2103 -- Lua-api.txt: Document that paramtype=light is essential for a light source to spread its light by paramat
07:15 Zeno` The value stores light with and without sun in its upper and lower 4 bits *respectively*.
07:19 Zeno` looks ok to me, apart from the it's/its that kahrl mentioned, and my above comment
07:26 paramat okay will update PR soon
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12:07 Zeno` will merge #2102 soon
12:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2102 -- Performance fixes. by onkrot
12:08 sapier veto
12:08 sapier it'S gonna collide to formspec font reversion and applying it the other way round is way less work
12:08 Zeno` oh, it conflicts?
12:09 sapier of course whole guiFormspecMenu.cpp is reverted back to 0.4.9 state
12:09 Zeno` yes, of course. ok
12:09 Zeno` but is the font reversion going ahead?
12:09 sapier I can't apply this reversion on top of your new changes but it's almost fine the other way round
12:10 Zeno` They're not my changes :)
12:10 sapier I'm quite sure because I wont continue discussing to all of you guys so live with your broken 0.4.9 way
12:10 sapier android will use the new v2 interpreter I'm preparing right now
12:11 sapier and no it's not gonna be compatible nor will I add any compatibility code there
12:11 Zeno` man, we didn't mean that it should be abandoned completely
12:13 Zeno` I've been so tired lately it's not funny, otherwise I would have been looking at the (current) font code myself to give you constructive suggestions
12:14 Zeno` I dunno. Although I am very opposed to how things currently are I am also kind of opposed to "throwing code away"
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12:53 sapier it's not only you Zeno`except of celeron who does require the fixed formspecs for android too not a single one supporting the fix is there. I'm not throwing the code away I'm just moving it in parallel to get rid of this discussion.
12:56 sapier well except of zenos font scale fixes I didn't ever like that part but accepted it for compatibility reasons ... later one are gone now so no reason to keep it
12:56 sapier -zeno + zefram
13:12 Guest66066 is it okay if I ping celeron
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13:51 apdap CMakeFiles\minetest.dir\objects.a(seri​alization.cpp.obj)serialization.cpp|| undefined reference to `deflate'|
13:51 nore sfan5, what do you think about _game #396?
13:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/396 -- /kill [player] command
13:51 apdap anyone?
13:51 apdap nore, i like the idea
13:52 apdap what about /kick too
13:52 sfan5 apdap: nore was talking about https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/396
13:52 apdap I see
13:53 apdap I'm having issues with zlib stuff, 'deflate' even though it's all linked correctly, can anyone send me their .cbp or whatever?
13:53 sfan5 nore: looks good; can you merge it? (BlockMen has not been there since months, I think we currently need to continue dev. w/o him)
13:53 sfan5 apdap: whats the exact problem?
13:53 apdap undefined reference to `deflate'|
13:53 apdap i had that with gettext too so I removed it
13:54 nore sfan5, btw: what about allowing another dev or two?
13:54 kilbith (yes yes yes)
13:54 sfan5 nore: i have nothing against that but the question is who?
13:54 sfan5 apdap: windows or linux?
13:54 apdap windows
13:55 sfan5 where did you acquire gettext and zlib?
13:55 nore sfan5, I'd say perhaps SN or PA for dev, paramat for mapgen-related things, and kilbith for texturing
13:55 Zeno` sfan5, I don't consider the user name "salt" heheh
13:56 sfan5 Zeno`: maybe it's pepper then ;)
13:56 Zeno` paprika maybe
13:56 apdap sfan5, i don't remember, i did it some days ago, filename "gettext-0.14.4.exe" and "gettext-0.14.4-src.zip"
13:56 apdap and zlib-1.2.5.tar.gz
13:56 apdap i think I got gettext in source forge
13:56 sfan5 apdap: can you try using the libraries the official windows builds use?
13:56 sfan5 apdap: I'll give you a link
13:57 sfan5 nore: PilzAdam for dev and paramat for mapgen things would be a good first addition
13:58 apdap paragenv7 perhaps?
13:58 apdap it's pretty cool IMO,
13:58 sfan5 nah, we won't be integrating a lua mapgen into minetest_game
13:58 nore kilbith does really good texturing too (and it looks like we almost always merged his PRs)
13:58 kilbith well, i'm not sure textures needs a submaintainer
13:59 kilbith Pilz & paramat should be sufficient enough
13:59 sfan5 apdap: 32-bit: https://sfan5.pf-control.de/zlib-1.2.8-win32.zip and https://sfan5.pf-control.de/gettext-0.14.4.zip
13:59 Zeno` there is mapgen stuff in minetest_game now?
13:59 nore about mapgen, perhaps mapgen v7/v5 could be made default for mt_game
14:00 apdap sfan5, is there any benefit in trying compiling it in 64 bits?
14:00 nore Zeno`, yep, biomes defs for v5/7, but I'm not sure snow biomes exist in v6
14:00 sfan5 apdap: 64-bit: https://sfan5.pf-control.de/zlib-1.2.8-win64.zip and https://sfan5.pf-control.d​e/gettext-0.18.2-win64.zip
14:00 sfan5 apdap: it could be faster with 64-bit
14:00 sfan5 nore: v7 is not stable enough
14:00 apdap okay then
14:00 nore and v5?
14:01 sfan5 dunno about v5
14:01 sfan5 it would make sense to at least have biome defs for v5 in _game
14:01 Zeno` v5 has too much floating stuff
14:01 nore I thought v7 was going to be frozen and continue to be developed as v8
14:01 apdap btw, why is the jump gravity so weird?
14:01 sfan5 in short: we support v5, but it's not default
14:01 sfan5 how about that?
14:01 sfan5 apdap: what do you mean by "so weird"?
14:02 sfan5 nore: iirc hmmmm hasn't decided on that yet
14:02 apdap the gravity seems to be weird? i don't know how to explain really
14:02 sfan5 nore: anyway, can you merge _game 396?
14:02 Zeno` apdap, there is no terminal velocity afaik
14:02 kilbith so you're agree about PA & paramat in the _game team, guys ?
14:06 apdap is there any benefit with compiling with luajit instead of lua? better speed?
14:06 apdap i'm using the normal lua lib to compile
14:06 sfan5 apdap: if you use luajit mods run faster, lua mapgens benefit from this the most
14:07 apdap ok
14:07 apdap Zeno`, should I open a feature request on that in github or is it already being worked?
14:13 nore sfan5, yep, doing it
14:14 nore sfan5, btw, what about those from #390 to #395?
14:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/390 -- Repeated right clicking when holding the right mouse button by Jeija
14:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/395 -- Config file on XDG dir on Linux
14:14 apdap i still get CMakeFiles\minetest.dir\objects.a(l​_mainmenu.cpp.obj)l_mainmenu.cpp|| undefined reference to `__imp_libintl_gettext'|
14:17 apdap is it a cmake problem?
14:18 sfan5 nore: #390 yes, #391 looks not ready, #392 yes, #393 yes, #395 will need more review
14:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/390 -- Repeated right clicking when holding the right mouse button by Jeija
14:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/391 -- add lua api call to force save of settings to config file by sapier
14:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/392 -- Fixed two typos in commit 615fd498bc by dannydark
14:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/393 -- Conductive blocks/nodes
14:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/395 -- Config file on XDG dir on Linux
14:18 sfan5 apdap: are you linking to libintl
14:18 sfan5 ShadowBot: ಠ_ಠ
14:18 apdap sfan5, http://i.imgur.com/R9spQQ5.png
14:19 nore ah, about #395, I have not checked the code yet, but from what I've seen in the comments, it is probably more efficient than #200 I created
14:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/395 -- Config file on XDG dir on Linux
14:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/200 -- clouds appear in front of water
14:20 nore ShadowNinja, could you please change ShadowBot so that it links to the moste recently updated PR between _game and mt please?
14:20 sfan5 apdap: the lua vars are only for luajit, they don't support using standard lua installations
14:21 Zeno` libintl.dll.a?
14:21 sfan5 apdap: you can also see that in the output below "LuaJIT not found, using bundled Lua."
14:21 apdap can I force them anyways?
14:21 apdap and what is the problem in cmake? i sent the screenshot
14:22 apdap no idea what might be wrong
14:22 sfan5 i don't see any problem
14:22 sfan5 it seems correct
14:22 Zeno` libintl.dll.a is correct?
14:22 apdap i downloaded it from sfan5
14:22 sfan5 apdap: yes, you can force an external lua if you edit some stuff in the cmake files
14:22 sfan5 Zeno`: yes
14:23 sfan5 apdap: there are other incorrect things
14:23 sfan5 apdap: IRRLICHT_LIBRARY needs to be the .dll.a or .a file for irrlicht
14:23 sfan5 apdap: and you can ignore IRRLICHT_SOURCE_DIR
14:25 sfan5 apdap: try looking at this page: http://dev.minetest.net/CMake_Options
14:25 apdap thx
14:26 apdap sfan5, i saw it now
14:26 apdap gettext is all correct but it doesnt work
14:26 apdap aw
14:27 sfan5 what if you build without gettext
14:27 apdap yeah
14:27 apdap but I thought gettext would be pretty usefu
14:27 apdap s/usefu/useful
14:27 sfan5 thats correct
14:28 apdap i don't have dll.a in my irrlicht folder
14:28 apdap dll.a files*
14:28 sfan5 http://sprunge.us/VOdO?diff <<< pushing this in 5 minutes
14:29 sfan5 apdap: where did you download irrlicht
14:29 apdap http://sourceforge.net/projects/irrlich​t/files/Irrlicht%20SDK/1.7/1.7.3/irrlic​ht-1.7.3.zip/download?use_mirror=ufpr
14:29 apdap I think
14:29 sfan5 does that contain .lib files?
14:31 apdap only for win32-visualstudio
14:34 apdap i'll try to find a full release
14:35 sfan5 apdap: http://sfan5.pf-control.de​/irrlicht-1.8.1-win32.zip
14:43 nore sfan5, what about the cleanup PR too (#376 IIRC) ?
14:43 nore should be merged before it gets unmergeable
14:45 kilbith game#376
14:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/376 -- More cleanup by PilzAdam
14:45 nore oops, sorry, forgot to close the prs :(
14:45 apdap CMakeFiles\minetest.dir\objects.a(co​ntent_cao.cpp.obj)content_cao.cpp|| undefined reference to `__imp__ZN3irr5video16IdentityMaterialE'|
14:45 apdap https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=10468
14:45 apdap is this related
14:45 nore kilbith: O.O... this works?
14:46 apdap uhh I just wanted to ask if you just could zip out your jenkins auto build folder or anything that you use so it's easier, lol
14:46 kilbith yes, game#number
14:46 sfan5 nore: yep, merge that
14:47 nore btw, I wanted to add advanced versions of the grow_* functions (those used in mg, precisely for lua mapgens), thoughts on it?
14:47 Krock the old tree growing function would be nice
14:50 nore ... I was copying all the commits ids...
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15:23 apdap sfan5, can you send me all of the libs and the cbp files if you use codeblock. i'm tired of trying to solve it
15:23 * VanessaE looks in
15:23 sfan5 apdap: I'm not using codeblocks
15:23 apdap all the libs is enough then :P
15:23 sfan5 sure
15:23 apdap zip them up please
15:27 sfan5 apdap: http://meow.minetest.net/mtlibs-2015_01-win32.zip
15:30 roniz joined #minetest-dev
15:43 selat joined #minetest-dev
15:46 apdap LuaJIT found, checking for broken versions... then LuaJIT not found
15:46 apdap hmm
15:46 apdap should I ignore?
15:49 sfan5 apdap: what did you set LUA_LIBRARY and LUA_INCLUDE_DIR to?
15:49 apdap luajit/include
15:50 apdap libluajit.a
15:50 sfan5 can you paste the output
15:51 apdap http://pastebin.com/2bVjx6bz
15:52 sfan5 it think your luajit is broken for some reason
15:53 sfan5 did you set CODEBLOCKS_EXECUTABLE?
15:54 apdap yes
15:55 sfan5 hm
15:55 sfan5 maybe cmake does not support src code compilation the the config stage with codeblocks
15:55 sfan5 just ignore that for now
15:56 Zeno` another screenshot of cmake-gui, please?
15:57 apdap http://i.imgur.com/LgUqsiJ.png
15:57 Zeno` scroll up?
15:58 apdap http://i.imgur.com/HNINFhX.png
15:58 apdap http://i.imgur.com/1A5dUPQ.png
15:58 apdap http://i.imgur.com/Mp44G3B.png
15:59 Zeno` cmake is not using a cache is it?
15:59 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
16:01 apdap Zeno`, no idea.
16:02 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
16:02 apdap CMakeCache.txt?
16:02 Zeno` check ?/minetest/minetest and make sure there a no files there that should not be
16:02 Zeno` yeah delete that
16:03 Zeno` normally I would build binaries in a different directory to the source directory (to solve these kind of potential problems you just delete the build directory and run cmake again)
16:04 Zeno` I don't know if this is your issue though ;)
16:04 Krock I wonder why you use MinGW
16:05 Zeno` Krock, code::blocks I imagine
16:05 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
16:06 Zeno` apdap, after you delete those cache files run cmake again (of course)
16:06 Zeno` also delete the .cbp file (or whatever it's called)
16:07 apdap Zeno`, it regens everytime you generate a new one
16:07 Zeno` yeah, just trying to get back to a "clean" state ;)
16:08 apdap delete anything that starts with CMake or Cpack?
16:08 apdap and Makefiles?
16:08 Zeno` err not really
16:08 Zeno` anything that is not in the original repo
16:14 Zeno` and change the "where to build the binaries". It makes life much simpler
16:19 kilbith nore, this commit : https://github.com/minetest/​minetest_game/commit/047bfb9  is in couple with #2036
16:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2036 -- Builtin: Remove builtin_biome.lua if my simple biome is added to MTgame (MTG pull 392) by paramat
16:20 kilbith "paramat : If added Minetest pull 2036 should be merged to remove the builtin biome."
16:20 nore yep, I know (see paramat's comment on #2036)
16:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2036 -- Builtin: Remove builtin_biome.lua if my simple biome is added to MTgame (MTG pull 392) by paramat
16:20 kilbith hmmmm ^
16:20 kilbith it's up to you
16:21 VanessaE mt_game got said biomes all right, and I brought them into dreambuilder also.
16:25 Zeno` preparing to merge #2102
16:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2102 -- Performance fixes. by onkrot
16:26 Zeno` speaketh now or forever be silent :)
16:29 sfan5 Zeno`: didn't sapier say that conflicts with something
16:29 sapier I did
16:29 Zeno` I want to block him merging his PR :)
16:30 sfan5 also what is "preparing to merge"
16:30 Zeno` Because I don't think reverting all you did, sapier, is necessary at all
16:30 VanessaE sapier: saying it'll block your reversion of the font stuff isn't a good enough reason to veto, imho
16:30 sapier well I'm gonna tell you once anyone of you merges something making me work additional hours to revert it I'm gonna merge the reverte immediatly once it's rebased
16:31 VanessaE sapier: don't revert, just *fix* it
16:31 Zeno` Does it really cause a conflict anyway?
16:31 VanessaE pixels = points/72*DPI ... how hard it is to set every font rendered to this?
16:31 sapier ok in this case I'm gonna merge it in a few minutes because It's plain impossible to "fix" what different guys believe has to be fixed
16:32 sapier I can't make a font smaller and bigger same time ... sorry I just can't do this
16:32 VanessaE sapier: you refuse to listen to us
16:32 Zeno` sapier, why "waste" all your good work when it can (IMO) be fixed?
16:32 VanessaE read me again:
16:32 VanessaE pixels = points/72*
16:32 VanessaE oops
16:32 VanessaE pixels = points/72*DPI
16:32 VanessaE that's IT.
16:32 VanessaE all of it.
16:32 sfan5 VanessaE: s/IT/it/
16:33 sapier that's what already is implemented
16:33 VanessaE sfan5: emphasis.
16:33 VanessaE sapier: clearly it isn't.
16:33 sapier well it is
16:33 VanessaE sapier: if it were, fonts wouldn't change size with window size
16:33 sapier I already removed the autfontscaling for larger formspecs
16:33 sfan5 VanessaE: emphasis is _it_ or using the bold text built into irc
16:34 sapier they don't do change size any longer vanessae
16:34 Zeno` bold text is not part of the original IRC RFC
16:34 Zeno` from 1921
16:34 Zeno` so I won't use it
16:34 VanessaE sapier: let me check again.  my last pull was one or two days ago and it was still broken then
16:34 VanessaE well 2 or 3 days
16:35 Zeno` hang on. If it's no longer broken why are you reverting it?
16:35 sapier the only thing changing the font size is dpi and gui_scaling factor but that's obviously not enough so I just don't se where I am supposed to change additional things
16:35 VanessaE sapier: stop.  okay?  just stop
16:35 sapier because sfan5 already checked the latest version and still doesn't like it at all
16:35 sfan5 Zeno`: i was talking to VanessaE
16:35 sfan5 sapier: the text is just too big
16:35 sapier it's still "broken" as of it's not identical to 0.4.9 which is plain impossible
16:35 VanessaE let me check it, because if sfan5 says it's busted, it probably is.  let me see what he's seeing.
16:35 Zeno` sfan5, I was talking to sapier
16:36 Zeno` oh, you mean the bold text stuff? That was a joke :P
16:36 sfan5 k
16:36 sfan5 next time use /s
16:37 sapier no matter what I'm gonna tune it's not possible to get the new code to look exactly like old one so I'm not willing to spend any additional time for it
16:37 kilbith sapier, "I can't make a font smaller and bigger same time"  wrong, we're all saying that's excessively big
16:37 Zeno` it doesn't have to look exactly the same. The font (size) just needs to be consistent
16:38 VanessaE sapier: what, in standard points is the default font size now?
16:38 VanessaE looks to be close to 13
16:38 sapier obviously if it doesn't look like 0.4.9 different ppl don't like different things and all join to fight against it ... I tried about 5 days to get this fixed it's over
16:39 sfan5 wat
16:39 sfan5 nobody complained about the main menu font (or size) in 0.4.9
16:39 VanessaE for me, fonts are now consistently sized all around, exactly like I was trying to say
16:39 sapier As I said ... pc formspecs will exactly look like 0.4.9 and for android I'm gonna do the real thing
16:39 VanessaE so if you change anything now you will break it
16:39 sfan5 VanessaE: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/M/MshHkghNi31N.png
16:39 VanessaE in other words, it's actually quite perfect.
16:40 VanessaE and to be sure, I made sure all font, scaling, and DPI settings were commented out/removed from my config.
16:40 sfan5 VanessaE: would you call how it looks in my screenshot perfect?
16:40 Krock I love the current font(sizes)
16:40 * Krock hides
16:41 sapier I'm not gonna fix anything on current code any longer the only thing I'm gonna provide is revertion to 0.4.9 then I'll never do anything on formspecs.
16:41 VanessaE sfan5: that looks a little different from my menu, probably because you have longer labels than me due to language difference
16:42 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2001102015%20-%2011%3a42%3a29%20AM.png
16:42 sfan5 VanessaE: the problem i have is that the font is too fat (e.g. the Mods text does not even fit into the tab)
16:42 VanessaE this is me, now, at git HEAD with entirely default font settings.
16:43 sfan5 VanessaE: here's what i uploaded yesterday https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png
16:43 Zeno` ok, the fonts are now consistent (it seems)
16:43 sfan5 VanessaE: (ignore the left thing, it was because i was not at HEAD)
16:43 VanessaE the ESC menu is screwed up though - it's auto-scaling (the formspec, not the fonts - they're fine) with window size.
16:43 sfan5 sapier: is there a way i can make the font not look so fat
16:44 sfan5 ಠ_ಠ
16:44 VanessaE sfan5: use a "condensed" font
16:44 Zeno` I like this much better than before
16:44 sfan5 the formspec looks bad at fullscreen
16:44 sapier change the font
16:44 VanessaE that's the normal name for the kind of typeface you need in your situation
16:44 sapier our font code does only know size and shadows
16:44 sapier no other parameters
16:44 VanessaE your problem isn't a function of font size
16:44 sfan5 which font did we use before?
16:44 sapier same
16:45 sfan5 then the font was made larget
16:45 Zeno` So I'm not sure you should revert anything, sapier
16:45 sfan5 larger*
16:45 VanessaE it's a function of labels being too big for their slots to begin with, the slots were probably originally sized for english text, no?
16:45 sapier just at different sizes. what you see is an effect of rounding errors
16:45 Zeno` just a few more tweaks and all is cool
16:45 sfan5 rounding errors
16:45 sfan5 yeah sure
16:45 sfan5 which font size did we have before?
16:46 sapier I'm not gonna tweak anything. I tried this for about 5 days whith lots of argueing and no noticable result
16:46 sfan5 I'm just asking a question
16:46 VanessaE sfan5: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/van​essa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/S​creenshot_2014-05-11-17-20-50.png
16:46 VanessaE this was on an old android build, sufficient?
16:46 sapier I was answering to Zeno sfan5
16:46 sfan5 VanessaE: this is exactly the font size/family/whatever i like
16:46 VanessaE (note the date:  May 11 last year)
16:47 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
16:47 sapier that timeout schould be an assertion
16:47 sapier once this happens you may have random memory corruption
16:47 VanessaE sapier: ignore that.
16:47 sfan5 the formspec looks bad at full screen: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/z/zWSxSSQdlrf1.png
16:47 VanessaE sapier: I was just getting a text size example
16:47 sfan5 the text is too small (or the buttons too big)
16:47 sfan5 the checkboxes are too small
16:47 VanessaE sfan5: yeah, same here.
16:48 sfan5 and the logo is not where it should be
16:48 sapier sfan5 of course do they look bad because zeno and kill... don't want fonts to scale same as formspec
16:48 VanessaE sapier: ok so it's simple: disable auto-scaling of formspecs for the ESC/Pause menu and main menu and I think you'll solve 99% of complaints
16:48 sfan5 sapier: so.. what font size did we have before?
16:48 sapier VanessaE that's not gonna work because then Zeno will complain that his fonts don't look same
16:49 VanessaE sfan5: we had what was in that android screenshot
16:49 Zeno` what?
16:49 VanessaE Zeno`: what about it?
16:49 sfan5 i mean the font size in numbers, not a visual representation
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16:49 Zeno` I never said they shouldn't scale. I said the font size should be the same no matter the formspec size
16:50 sapier I'm wasting my time, everyone of you want different things
16:50 sfan5 Zeno`: but this looks bad https://cdn.mediacru.sh/z/zWSxSSQdlrf1.png
16:50 VanessaE sapier: stop!  damn it man, just stop
16:50 Zeno` sfan5, was the font a different size depending on formspec before these changes?
16:50 VanessaE sapier: we all want the same damn thing
16:51 sfan5 Zeno`: i don't know, it wasn't this ugly though
16:51 sfan5 Zeno`: lemme make a screenshot
16:51 VanessaE sfan5: I think you're seeing Liberation Sans.  try DejaVu instead?
16:51 sapier no we don't: some want it stay as in 0.4.9 some wanna change this some others that ...
16:51 VanessaE sapier: nononono
16:51 sfan5 VanessaE: what do i put into minetest.conf?
16:52 VanessaE sfan5: I had:  font_path = /home/vanessa/.minetest/fonts/DejaVuSans.ttf
16:52 VanessaE and, mono_font_path = /home/vanessa/.minetest/fonts/DejaVuSansMono.ttf
16:52 VanessaE (both are commented out now)
16:52 VanessaE and those fonts are files I copied from my system
16:53 Calinou default font size was 12 before, I think
16:53 VanessaE sapier: people aren't demanding formspecs look identical to 0.4.9 - they're asking for something roughly equivalent.  that means shit that doesn't change size with window size.  That's all.
16:54 VanessaE and you already got the fonts taken care of.
16:54 VanessaE now just turn off the auto-scaling of formspecs for main menu and ESC menu
16:54 VanessaE the "skinny" font that sfan5 and kilbith are having a problem with is just the default font face, because it's no longer Dejavu Sans like it was with bitmapped fonts
16:55 sfan5 um
16:55 VanessaE when/why that changed, I don't know
16:55 sfan5 it'd the other way around
16:55 sfan5 i have a problem with the "fat" font
16:55 sfan5 i prefer the "skinny" font that was default in older versions
16:55 VanessaE sfan5: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/z/zWSxSSQdlrf1.png  this is a "fat" font?
16:55 sapier I enabled autoscaling because Zeno did require formspecs to be consistent
16:55 sfan5 VanessaE: in contrast to the old font, yes
16:55 sfan5 Zeno`: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/T/TL4VSq0QBR30.png
16:56 VanessaE sfan5: do you mean the vertical strokes are thick, i.e. fat like font hinting?
16:56 Zeno` who cares about the font face?
16:56 Zeno` I don't
16:56 sfan5 i do
16:57 VanessaE Zeno`: you required formspecs to auto-scale?
16:57 Zeno` I just wanted things consistent and with VanessaE's suggestion I think they could be
16:57 Zeno` VanessaE, all I wanted was for a "12 point" font to look the same size in any formspec
16:58 VanessaE sapier: so, you misinterpreted.  clearly he didn't mean autoscaling.
16:58 VanessaE he meant exactly the same thing I did
16:58 VanessaE turn off autoscaling.
16:59 kahrl one thing I noticed: the default font_size still depends on whether minetest is built with TTF support or not, even though the default font face is a bitmap font
16:59 VanessaE kahrl: indeed?
16:59 kahrl sorry if that was already discussed, honestly tl;dr
16:59 VanessaE haha
16:59 Calinou this is why IMO, bitmaps font should just go away
17:00 VanessaE well it does matter, since some people can't use freetype
17:00 sapier I can't change the fact that scaling factor does affect the layout
17:00 sapier if it doesn't scale the layout will be different
17:00 Calinou VanessaE, who can't?
17:00 VanessaE sapier: define "different".
17:00 sapier I can't tell this in detail as it's completely erratic
17:00 VanessaE Calinou: oh, I'm sure there's some weird corner-case out there where freetype doesn't work, or some people just don't liek it
17:00 VanessaE like*
17:00 VanessaE sapier: screenshots then?
17:01 VanessaE let's see the worst-case you've come across
17:01 Calinou “people just don't like it” is a bad argument, as it's a big burden on us to handle two font systems
17:01 Calinou lots of games today have TTF/OTF fonts only, people still play them
17:01 sapier what's so hard to understand about "I wont spend any more time on fixing this code" ?
17:01 VanessaE Calinou: I'm not entirely against getting rid of bitmap font support, but I'm not especially FOR it either.
17:01 VanessaE sapier: what's so hard is that you've been bitching about it for days now and not listening to people clearly enough
17:02 sapier if you believe you can tune it and make others accept it do it, I gave up yesterday
17:02 VanessaE you obviously misinterpreted zeno, and me, and others
17:02 VanessaE and now we're trying to fix that misinterpretation.
17:02 sfan5 VanessaE: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/N/NsXnj117IDOD.png here's what i mean
17:02 sapier and then next one is gonna complain
17:03 sfan5 VanessaE: additionally the 0.4.10 M fits into 12x12 px but the 0.4.11-dev needs 16x16px
17:03 sfan5 maybe it's the hinting
17:03 VanessaE sfan5: that's what I thought.  you're talking about hinting, same as kilbith.  that just needs a different font face is all.
17:03 VanessaE sfan5: apply the lines I gave, just point them to something you like.
17:04 Zeno` hinting is a freetype setting anyway (I dunno about Windows builds... I assume they still use freetype)
17:04 leat joined #minetest-dev
17:04 VanessaE (well mostly hinting, the overall spacing around the M is a different issue.  kerning I guess)
17:04 VanessaE bbiab
17:04 * Calinou used Droid Sans at size 18 for a while, on a 1920×1080 screen
17:05 Calinou the same font I'm using on IRC right now
17:05 Zeno` sapier, do the new changes work on Android?
17:06 sapier I don't know
17:06 Zeno` because if they do, 99% of the issues people are complaining about are fixed. The other 1% should be relatively easy to fix
17:06 sapier I didn't care for android as long as it's not settled on pc
17:08 sapier no Zeno` those 1% sound like design limitations we can't fix thinks that are inherent propertys of the mechanisms we use
17:09 Zeno` such as?
17:09 sapier skinny fonts due to rounding issues
17:10 Zeno` oh, bugger that
17:10 sapier those happen at particular scaling and screen size
17:10 Zeno` that's not one of the 1%
17:10 sapier slightly different formspec layout then for 0.4.9
17:10 sapier we can't fix and stay same
17:10 Zeno` different is not bad; as long as things are consistent
17:10 sapier different non freetype font ... well the old one just didn't have different font sizes
17:11 Zeno` I don't think anyone, really, wants "exactly" the same
17:11 Zeno` they just want consistency
17:11 sapier well everything you guys tell leads to only one conclusion, to get everyone happy the only possible solution is revert ... each of you would accept different changes but wouldn't accept other changes
17:12 Zeno` I don't think that's true. I never said that at least
17:12 sapier I just don't see some subset of changes everyone would accept
17:13 sapier if you can find this subset good luck I hope you do
17:13 Zeno` I don't want to find a subset. I just want to find consistency
17:13 kahrl the subset {revert it} wouldn't be accepted by everyone either :P
17:13 Zeno` and that is so close to being there
17:14 sapier well kahrl that's not my problem
17:15 Zeno` sapier, please. Settle down? You've fixed the major complaints
17:15 Zeno` Now it's just small stuff to fix
17:15 Zeno` Reverting would, IMO, be silly
17:15 sapier exactly I fixed everything I could but it's still not enough that's the point where reverting is the only option left
17:16 Zeno` I don't understand why you're reluctant to tweak though
17:16 sapier well try to tweak it
17:16 sapier it's not gonna solve the issues of everyone
17:16 Zeno` Will VanessaE's suggestions above work (for those particular formspecs)?
17:17 sapier disabling autoscale for main menu?
17:17 sapier and paise
17:18 Zeno` well, yes, autoscale is the main problem
17:18 sapier It's gonna make mainmenu look more like old mainmenu but result in formspec beeing less consistent again
17:18 Zeno` *shrug*
17:19 sapier you'd not notice a difference on 800x600 but on any other resolution result may be good but could be bad too
17:20 Zeno` Sometimes compromises need to be made
17:21 sapier problem about compromises is everyone has to agree to them
17:21 Zeno` That will never happen
17:21 Zeno` you just need a majority
17:22 sapier right now it's always been 1: everyone else
17:22 Zeno` (well, you don't even need a majority but it helps keep the peace)
17:22 Zeno` sapier, and now it's not 1:everyone else
17:23 Zeno` because as far as I can see *most* of the major dislikes have been addressed
17:23 sfan5 VanessaE: it looks like we are using the same font, i just want the hinting configures such that it looks like in .10
17:24 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/de3888ca09a43371d3ef1fa3ff20e5501044d6ef Zeno revert changes in init.lua and game.cpp and you're gonna have the fixed size menu again, try it if you like it merge it
17:25 Zeno` sfan5, hinting is part of freetype. I'm not sure minetest even changes the hinting settings (it might, so correct me if I'm wrong)
17:25 sfan5 Zeno`: why does it look different in the new version if nothing changed?
17:25 sapier as you've been the one why I did change it most likely everyone else will be happy too
17:26 Zeno` because the font is scaled
17:26 sapier if not .. well ... you'll get used to it
17:26 Zeno` sapier, huh?
17:26 sapier I just told you where you can make those changes VanessaE suggested
17:27 sfan5 Zeno`: no, the font looks exactly the same at any resolution
17:27 Zeno` sapier, and how does it look?
17:28 sapier I already told I can't predict this in detail as there's to many dependencys
17:28 sapier try it and see yourself
17:29 sapier fonts most likely will stay same, locations of labels and buttons may vary
17:29 sfan5 hm
17:29 sfan5 this is weird
17:29 sfan5 if i change gui scale to 0.99 the font looks better
17:30 sfan5 but all the tabs still don't fit on the screen
17:31 sapier not weired rounding issue
17:32 sapier if you're at the edge for font size a small change of factor causes the font to change but the other elements may still round to oposit pixel
17:32 Zeno` patch does not apply :(
17:32 sapier come on Zeno there are 9 lines you need to change
17:33 Zeno` why do I feel you're leading me into some kind of trap?
17:33 sapier btw it ain't patch but only what you need to change
17:33 kahrl try: git revert --no-commit de3888ca0; git reset src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp; git checkout src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp
17:33 sapier NO
17:33 sapier he'd revert the revertion of autofontscaling too if he did this
17:34 kahrl huh?
17:34 sapier he just wants to reenable fixed formspecs
17:34 kahrl I'm just restating what you said
17:34 sapier no you miss the only init.lua and game.cpp part ;-)
17:34 kahrl um
17:34 sfan5 hm
17:34 sfan5 font_size needs to be 12
17:34 kahrl that's what the git reset and git checkout is for
17:34 sfan5 then it looks like in 0.4.10
17:35 sfan5 13 i mean
17:35 Calinou it was 12 before, I think
17:35 Calinou but feel free to make it 13 or 14
17:35 Calinou also, it should be changeable in GUI
17:35 sfan5 nope
17:36 sfan5 it was 13 before
17:36 apdap undefined reference to `__imp__ZN3irr5video16IdentityMaterialE'|
17:36 apdap help q.q
17:36 sfan5 apdap: which mingw version are you using
17:37 apdap http://i.imgur.com/gnup58s.png
17:37 apdap uhh
17:37 apdap latest mingw-w64
17:37 apdap lemme check
17:37 apdap 4.9.0
17:37 sfan5 hm
17:38 kahrl yeah, I agree with making the default font size 13 or 14
17:39 sfan5 sapier, Calinou: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/-/-KpzoDItP-qs.png
17:39 VanessaE back
17:39 sfan5 VanessaE: see the screenshot i just posted
17:39 VanessaE the one to Calinou just now?
17:40 sapier 0.4.10 is already non identical to 0.4.9
17:40 VanessaE ok I see it.
17:40 sfan5 sapier: forget the 0.4.9 thing
17:41 kahrl what is LEGACY_SCALING for, btw? (in constants.h)
17:41 sapier well try a different screen size you're gonna have different effects again, same for non freetype font
17:41 VanessaE sfan5: looks okay to me
17:41 kahrl (stuff like this should be commented :P)
17:41 sfan5 *sigh*
17:41 Zeno` seems to be ok, sapier
17:41 VanessaE certainly close enough to 0.4.10 that no one should complain imho
17:41 sapier kahrl: it's been used to make 0.4.10 similar to 0.4.9
17:41 apdap OH
17:41 apdap sfan5, I think the Irrlicht I'm using is 32 bits
17:42 apdap It's probably compiling x64
17:42 sfan5 sapier: i just want it to look like it looked in 0.4.10 with kinda-standard value of 96dpi
17:42 sfan5 apdap: that might the problem
17:42 sapier sfan5 zeno push your changes if you believe them to be ok I'll not stop you
17:42 sfan5 k
17:42 sfan5 anyone against setting default font size to 13?
17:42 apdap sfan5, is there a 64 bits irrlicht?
17:42 sfan5 apdap: yes
17:42 apdap sfan5: preview please?
17:42 sapier you should check non freetype prior merge too
17:43 sapier use_freetype=false
17:43 VanessaE sfan5: no argument from me.
17:43 sfan5 sapier: you realize that non-freetype uses a different size?
17:43 sfan5 sapier: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/constants.h#L102
17:43 kahrl sfan5: let me test it with a few different window sizes / dpi settings
17:43 sfan5 kahrl: sure
17:43 sapier well that's result of reverting the autofontscaling
17:44 sapier autofontscaling did adjust fonts to each other because they've been different in 0.4.9/10 too
17:44 sapier kahrl if you're on linux dpi settings will be ignored
17:44 kahrl hmm
17:45 sapier we do autodetect them from x11
17:45 Zeno` well I dunno. What would you like me to say about the patch, sapier?
17:45 sfan5 http://sprunge.us/CKEP?diff << suggested patch
17:45 sapier I don't want anyone of you to say anything about a patch I'm just telling you where you need to implement YOUR suggestions
17:46 Zeno` no, it's your patch. What do you think is wrong with it?
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17:46 kahrl sapier: you mean it even ignores the dpi settings I set with xrandr?
17:46 sapier sfan5 are you sure loosing float precision is a good idea?
17:46 sfan5 kahrl: it probably won't ignore that
17:46 sapier I don't know if xrandr sets the down to x11 level
17:46 kahrl yeah those seem to be used
17:46 sfan5 sapier: if the code relies on the constant being float it is broken
17:47 sfan5 also it is set as a setting first anyway
17:47 sapier sfan5 integer division != float division
17:47 sfan5 and the code probably uses getfloat
17:47 sapier if you make it an integer you loose more information on divisions then if it's float
17:47 sfan5 it would be stupid if the code did not use floats to get the "font_size" setting
17:47 apdap Can I have a preview on the font size stuff? :)
17:47 sfan5 sapier: listen pls
17:48 sapier You did ask me I did answer if you still wanna do it the integer way do it but don't tell me later I didn't mention it
17:48 sfan5 k
17:48 sfan5 you did not read what i said
17:49 Zeno` sapier, why did you want me to make those changes?
17:49 sapier I did but I know about those large calculations within guiFormspecMenu.cpp and I don't know exactly if there ain't a location where by someone elses mistake a pure integer division occurs
17:49 sfan5 here's a tl;dr for the 4 lines i said: the font code (probably) uses getFloat() to read the font_size setting, changing the constant to an int won't have any effect
17:49 sfan5 ^ sapier
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17:50 sapier but the font code is not the only one using the default font size
17:50 sfan5 if any of the font code uses that constant directly it's broken
17:50 sfan5 it should use the font_size setting
17:50 kahrl ok, font size 13 seems to be fine so far, will check a non-freetype build now
17:50 sfan5 kahrl: it will be a different size (14) w/o freetyper
17:51 sfan5 s/r$//
17:51 sapier maybe yet it wouldn't cause any harm if you did write it as float ... don't ever ask me again if you only wanna hear "it's ok"
17:51 sfan5 sapier: grep only finds something in defaultsettings.cpp and constant.h
17:51 kahrl sfan5: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/89e2e06932ece358152f
17:52 kahrl this is what I did
17:52 sfan5 i see
17:52 sfan5 i think we should do that anyway
17:52 sfan5 for consistency
17:52 sfan5 kahrl: please check that it looks (near) identicaly w/ and w/o freetype
17:53 kahrl well it uses a different font face, so probably not
17:53 sfan5 huh, what font face does it use=
17:53 sfan5 s/=/?/
17:53 sfan5 oh
17:54 sfan5 freetype uses liberationsans, non-freetype uses lucida_sans
17:54 sapier if it was same you'd still get different results as ttf font implementation returns different font parameters
17:54 kahrl nope this is bad http://i.imgur.com/4QIAW8U.png
17:55 sfan5 is that w/o freetype?
17:55 kahrl yeah
17:56 sapier you can distinguish by font shadows, non-ft doesn't have them
17:56 kahrl font_size should be about 10 there, on my setup at least
17:57 sfan5 how does it look with font_size 10 non-freetype?
17:58 kahrl http://i.imgur.com/pGYTBz2.png
17:58 VanessaE wouldn't the correct solution for non-ttf be to re-link the fonts so that referring to 13 or 14 non-ttf gets you something that's close to 13pt ttf?
17:58 VanessaE relink, rename...whatever
17:58 sfan5 that looks ok
17:59 sapier I think the size bug is more at ttf side
17:59 * kahrl has to leave for a bit; back in a hour or so
17:59 sapier non ft-fonts use irrlicht font tool
17:59 kahrl an*
17:59 VanessaE sapier: there's an easy way to check.  set a font to 72 points and display it at gui_scaling = 1.0.  assuming your DPI was displayed correctly, it just has to be 25.4 mm high.
17:59 sapier while ttf fonts are autogenerated with buggy code
17:59 VanessaE if it is, freetype is fine
18:00 sfan5 http://sprunge.us/bKIZ?diff << new suggested patch
18:00 sapier do we have a size 72 non ft font? ;-)
18:00 VanessaE s/displayed/detected/.
18:00 VanessaE sapier: check it with freetype first, since you suspect the problem to be there
18:00 sapier nope
18:01 VanessaE you literally just have to set it to 72 point, display it, and stick a ruler on your screen.
18:01 VanessaE that's it
18:01 sapier I'm not working on this code any longer
18:01 Zeno` Werner Lemberg (freetype) is constantly working on freetype
18:01 Zeno` if the bug is there I'd be surprised
18:02 sapier the code translating the fonts ain't freetype
18:02 sfan5 sapier, Zeno`, kahrl: any remaining issues with the new patch? http://sprunge.us/bKIZ?diff
18:02 sapier it's some piece of rubbish someone sometimes took from somewhere in the internet
18:02 VanessaE sapier: well you're the one who said maybe freetype is wrong.
18:02 VanessaE it's on you to prove it wrong or not
18:03 VanessaE until then, the correct solution is to fix the actual non-ft fonts so that THEIR sizes are similar to freetype, not to fiddle with magic numbers
18:03 sapier well you said the non freetype fonts are wrong first so it's up to you to proove your claim
18:03 VanessaE assuming freetype is actually correct
18:03 VanessaE wat
18:03 VanessaE no, I dod not
18:03 sfan5 hm
18:03 VanessaE did not*
18:03 VanessaE learn to read
18:03 sapier you suggested renaming the non freetype fonts
18:03 VanessaE yes, I suggested it based on what someone *else* said here
18:03 sapier which is only a sane suggestion if they where wrong
18:04 Zeno` freetype is correct. If it was not someone on the mailing list would already have raised an issue
18:04 sfan5 gui_scaling=0.99 and font_size=13 makes 0.4.11-dev look pretty much exactly like 0.4.10
18:04 sapier Zeno`: it's not freetype generating the fonts
18:04 sfan5 except the text is a bit weird
18:04 Zeno` what is then?
18:04 sfan5 anyway
18:04 VanessaE sfan5: 0.99 at least confirms what sapier said about rounding errors.
18:04 sapier we use freetype to generate the fonts but we use our own code to set the parameters for freetype
18:04 VanessaE sapier: I was responding to THIS:  [01-10 12:57] <kahrl> font_size should be about 10 there, on my setup at least
18:05 sapier and that piece of code is what I expect to be wrong
18:05 sfan5 [!!] http://sprunge.us/bKIZ?diff I'll be pushing this in 5 minutes if nobody has any problem
18:06 sapier I agree
18:06 VanessaE if kahrl believes that non-ttf fonts are displaying too big relative to ttf, and ttf is in fact displayed correctly, then the correct solution is to fix the non-ttf fonts *themselves* (either by renaming them or by re-rendering them), assuming also that kahrl's DPI size is consistent with whoever first rendered those fonts.
18:06 VanessaE sfan5: no problem from me, the above aside.
18:07 sapier meaning that irrlichts font generation tool would not generate a 10 px font if you suggest it but something different which sounds as sane as freetype itself generating wrong sized fonts
18:07 Zeno` this has to be one of the craziest conversations I've ever been involved with, lol
18:07 daswort the font is indeed a bit to big for the default window size: http://i.imgur.com/jLQEl92.png
18:09 est31 btw can I simply write i18n pull requests or is there a centralized UI for that
18:09 est31 "Texturen Pakete" is a very bad transl.
18:09 VanessaE daswort: eek.  gevalt
18:10 VanessaE no antialias?  eew
18:10 sfan5 est31: just make a pull; also <Fusl> sfan5: tell minetest devs to change "Sie sind gestorben" to "Du bist gestorben"
18:10 VanessaE ok fuck it, I give up on non-ttf arguments entirely
18:10 VanessaE do whatever you want
18:10 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2096 is still there, no tuning required looking identical to 0.4.9
18:10 VanessaE at least ttf works
18:10 VanessaE someone close that ^^^^^
18:10 sapier not till you guys fixed it
18:10 VanessaE do NOT revert, it's stupid to do so
18:11 Zeno` closed
18:11 sapier open
18:11 Zeno` lol sapier
18:11 Zeno` closed
18:11 daswort VanessaE, "eek. gevalt" ???
18:11 VanessaE daswort: nevermind.
18:11 sapier I'd be carefull what you do next Zeno
18:12 Zeno` Why? You just closed it
18:12 Zeno` and opened it
18:12 Zeno` :)
18:12 sapier javascript update error
18:12 VanessaE just close the fucking thing
18:12 daswort est31, still better than "Tapete ändern"
18:13 sfan5 sapier: your pull does not help any
18:13 sfan5 the problem is solved
18:13 est31 daswort: its more about having a determinativkompositum. Its Aufzug not Auf Zug.
18:13 sfan5 nobody wanted to remove formspec scaling support
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18:14 VanessaE sapier: Principle of Least Surprise
18:14 est31 (perhaps aufzug is no determinativkompositum but that doesnt change "Texturen Pakete" sounds fishy)
18:16 sapier well guys, do what you want
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18:16 daswort How about "Reliefpakete" est31 *duck*
18:17 est31 daswort: why not just "Texturenpakete"?
18:17 sfan5 ^
18:18 daswort Too reasonable. If we call it "Strukturpakete" i can write a mod called "Wirtschaftsaufschwung" for MT. est31
18:18 daswort est31, http://www.dict.cc/?s=texture
18:19 est31 daswort, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki​/Textur_%28Computergrafik%29
18:19 daswort Much better: http://i.imgur.com/UuR97fw.png
18:20 daswort est31, but translations can make a program more interesting and fun: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screens​hots/970x546/2009/02/weltraum1mw1.png
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18:21 sfan5 VanessaE: how it looks as of HEAD: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/0/0rgc9CwnCRUW.png
18:22 est31 fun is for losers
18:22 est31 :P
18:29 VanessaE sfan5: what screen DPI?
18:30 sfan5 VanessaE: 96
18:30 VanessaE lgtm then.
18:39 kahrl back, btw has anyone noticed that the row highlight on the server list isn't clipped properly against the scrollbar
18:40 kahrl it's pretty trivial to fix actually: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/30883cd62f722f2d9344
18:40 VanessaE kahrl: see my screenshot earlier.
18:40 VanessaE I've noticed it
18:41 kahrl which one?
18:41 VanessaE this one:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2001102015%20-%2011%3a42%3a29%20AM.png
18:42 kahrl ah yes
18:42 kahrl well I'll push my fix in a few minutes since it's quite trivial
18:44 VanessaE (10 minutes later) <kahrl> oh fuck, that commit broke X...and Y...and wow you should see Z
18:44 VanessaE ;)
18:45 kahrl are you a wizard? :D
18:45 VanessaE haha
18:45 VanessaE no but some might call me a witch ;)
18:51 ShadowNinja nore: Yes, but it would require a much more complex implementation.  nore, sfan5: Try using game#num.
18:51 ShadowNinja (Or just num without the #)
18:52 nore ShadowNinja, what about just a < 500 check?
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18:55 sapier Zeno` sfan5 kilbith VanessaE so what are you done fixing it now?
18:55 kilbith ?
18:56 VanessaE sapier: I have nothing further to contribute.  I believe the only thing left was for someone to commit the disable-formspect-autoscaling patch you suggested or something similar.
18:56 ShadowNinja nore: Already tried that, people complained that you can't refer to old ones them.
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18:57 sapier I just wanna know if it's been two numbers you guys didn't manage to tell which wasted about 12h of my time which I intended to spend for client side lua (OTTO) ... well now it's to late to start
18:57 ShadowNinja As it is <50 or so is is ignored, for gdb backtraces.
18:58 VanessaE sapier: it's never too late to start on something, but as far as font sizes are concerned, the problem is solved in HEAD now.
18:58 ShadowNinja sapier: Security is essential for that.  I think it will be easier to add security before that.
18:59 sapier client side lua would be a independent engine so you don't need to add security anywhere else
18:59 sapier you can't mix it up to other lua engines as risk to get something in by accident is way to big
19:00 VanessaE sapier: I think he means in the sense of strict sandboxing and the like
19:00 sapier well VanessaE I estimated a prototype to be about 12h of development time ... I don't have this time the next weeks so it's not worth starting it
19:00 VanessaE client-side Lua sent from some server better not be able to read my Email :)
19:01 Calinou client-side Lua could be made to work like extensions
19:01 Calinou ie. server can't download it to client
19:01 Calinou client must install it itself
19:01 Calinou so we can focus on security later
19:01 VanessaE Calinou: naw, bad idea
19:01 VanessaE we'd be in MC territory then
19:01 Calinou this avoids JavaScript trap…
19:01 VanessaE broken/outdated mods all over the place
19:01 VanessaE incompatible mods from server to server
19:01 VanessaE we don't need that
19:01 sapier we already discussed this Calinou resulting in the conclusion if we provide sufficient modding capabilitys it's not gonna provide any security benefit if you have to install it manually
19:04 kilbith sapier, the right scaling fixers are called "HTML" and "CSS" ;)
19:05 sapier I'm not in mood of joking after wasting 12h of development time and beeing attacked by about all core developers just because of 2 numbers.
19:05 kilbith (sowwy)
19:07 VanessaE sapier: we tried and tried every which way to Sunday to explain what was wrong.
19:07 VanessaE it isn't our fault you elected to take the hard route :P
19:07 sapier well see logs zeno did even today claim font scaling is broken just because he didn't even bother to try the latest version.
19:08 VanessaE maybe he just didn't see that there was a new commit?
19:08 VanessaE I didn't, either (hence why I said I better re-check)
19:08 sapier great not even time enough to look at commits but accusing ... that's the the right way of course
19:09 VanessaE as it stands, if this http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-01-10#i_4103710 will sort out the formspec autoscaling issue, then there's nothing left to complain about.
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19:11 sapier just to mention current state ain't finished it's still not sufficient for android and maybe even not enogh for 4k screens ... and I'm out of formspec development I burnt my fingers more then once I'm not gonna touch that code anytime soon.
19:13 sfan5 sapier: we were already done when you said <sapier> well guys, do what you want
19:15 sapier well guess everyone should thing about this discussion and how much went wrong there because discussions like this one is why we lost so many skilled developers in past
19:22 hmmmm ahhh stop the insanity
19:22 hmmmm i feel like i need to get involved with this the longer and longer it goes on
19:24 hmmmm in re: font sizing.  i personally feel like the best way to specify font size is by points
19:24 hmmmm if font sizes get too large, then i see no reason why it shouldn't get cut off by the clipping of the control
19:24 VanessaE hmmmm: um, you're behind...
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19:25 hmmmm but the control sizes should be fit to the DPI of the screen in order to make crap like android work
19:25 hmmmm all of this needs to be optional, with sane defaults
19:25 hmmmm fonts auto-scaling with the DPI makes perfect sense, just not for PC interfaces
19:26 hmmmm one size fits all is simply untrue here
19:26 hmmmm what is the current situation that i'm missing out on?
19:27 hmmmm okay so there's a "set fixed size" option for formspecs.. awesome
19:27 sapier well you're just next one requesting something different ;-P
19:27 hmmmm not requesting, just my own humble opinion on how GUIs should work
19:28 sapier that setting is there since we have formspec mainmenu
19:28 hmmmm if you have something differing from that it may or may not be just as good
19:28 VanessaE hmmmm: right now all that remains is the fixed-size option, see the log link above
19:28 hmmmm yea, I just read that commit vanessae
19:28 VanessaE everything else seems to be pretty much fixed,.
19:28 hmmmm so why is there a difference between builtin formspecs and mod-generated formspecs?
19:29 VanessaE difference in what way?
19:29 sapier because no mod does specify fixed size formspec
19:29 hmmmm from what i read there's a difference now
19:29 hmmmm no mod specifies that *yet*
19:29 hmmmm but the capability IS there, right...?
19:29 sapier for about 2 years noone (except me) did even try it
19:30 hmmmm and now how does all the recent developments affect android?
19:30 hmmmm s/developments/development/
19:30 sapier not at all
19:30 sapier at least not direct
19:30 hmmmm so everything's fixecd
19:30 hmmmm fixed*
19:30 sapier nope
19:31 hmmmm what still needs fixing??
19:31 sapier there's still something wrong with dpi font/formspec aspect
19:32 hmmmm btw i'm surprised irrlicht doesn't have an interface for getting the DPI of the current screen
19:32 hmmmm you only have one defined for Xorg currently.. what about Windows and the rest?  do we need DPI-getting functions for the other platforms?
19:32 sapier there's some code for it in android branch but that one ain't merged yet
19:33 sapier let me check something
19:35 sapier ok so next thing left:
19:35 sapier fixed size formspecs don't work on android
19:35 hmmmm right
19:35 sapier well actually they don't work on any high dpi screen
19:35 hmmmm so I'm coding up a new static formspec
19:35 hmmmm what is the correct way to scale?
19:35 sapier non fixed size would work
19:36 sapier but there fonts are broken
19:36 hmmmm right now what I'm doing is simply g_fontengine->getTextWidth/Height(text) + some padding for selecting the element height and width
19:36 sapier because those don't scale
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19:36 sapier I don't know what you wanna simplify there
19:37 sapier but do it if you believe this to be rigth way
19:37 sapier font engine never was part of the issue
19:37 hmmmm right, sure
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19:37 sapier formspecs are and ppls believe how they're supposed to behave
19:38 hmmmm but I imagine there's a setting in minetest.conf now where you specify font_size = 9 or something like that and all the static formspecs (should in theory) respect this?
19:38 sapier they do
19:39 sapier still I believe the main issue beeing formspecs insane coupling of font sizes to formspec layout
19:39 sapier so unless you fix this you're always have fontsize layout dependencys
19:40 sapier if someone changes the font size the location of labels buttons .. whill change
19:41 hmmmm right now this is what I kind of have:  http://fpaste.org/168173/42091886/
19:42 hmmmm is that wrong?
19:42 VanessaE sapier: nope, you're wrong.  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2001102015%20-%2002%3a42%3a35%20PM.png
19:42 VanessaE that's default size at upper left, "17" at upper right, and "25" at lower right
19:42 VanessaE all three formspecs are identical, to the pixel.
19:43 sapier look at SelectWorld: it's neither at same top nor bottom position.
19:43 sapier maybe it's somewhere in the middle but I'd not bet on this
19:44 VanessaE the buttons didn't move?  the checkboxes seem to be in the same place?  the listbox itself seems to be unmoved?  the overall size of the formspec is the same?
19:44 sapier try it for a non fixed formspec where distances are bigger
19:44 VanessaE that's not a fixed-size formspec.
19:45 sapier hmmmm well it's not wrong for sure I'm just not sure if we need another class in formspec code consisting about 90% overhead code and 10% used code
19:46 sapier fixed size and 800x600 window size are same
19:46 hmmmm it's overhead that could easily get inlined... it's totally worth it to reduce the sheer amount of repetition involved with the GUIs
19:46 VanessaE ok, just checked.  default, 16 (yeah, changed it.  like it better), and 25.  maximized.  the font appears to be positioned just a few pixels up from its baseline.
19:47 sapier I wasn't talking about compiler overhead hmmmm ;-) It's just my personal opinion about readability
19:47 VanessaE the only part of the formspec that changes with font size is the widths (not the heights) of the tabs at the top of the menu
19:47 sapier for things like that I'd prefere a helper function but as I said that's a personal opinion
19:47 hmmmm having less wchar_t *text = wgettext("thing here"); core::rect<s32>(big, long, thing, here, taking, up, 3, lines);  blah blah blah delete[] text;   would be nice
19:48 VanessaE so font-wise, this behaves exactly as it should
19:48 hmmmm the reason why it's a helper class is because when it scopes out it automatically deletes the gettext results
19:49 hmmmm i'd make it into a macro if i could
19:50 sapier As I said It's a personal opinion influenced by the fact that I saw about 5-10 similar classes roundabout formspecs doing almost as less as this one
19:50 hmmmm should probably unify them
19:50 est31 in those .po files
19:50 est31 do the lines with #~ have a meaning
19:50 sapier I haven't tried but I guess most are used way to different
19:50 est31 or are they just comments
19:53 est31 guess first
19:55 hmmmm if somebody here knew the answer they'd tell you :)
19:56 sapier well vanessae the good thing is you're almost right about the font height dependencys
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19:57 sapier the bad thing is this doesn't fix anything for about fixed formspecs don't work on high dpi screens
19:58 sapier hmmmm what issue do you intend to solve with this codeß
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20:05 sapier hmmmm can you apply this? https://gist.github.com/sa​pier/846662f8f8aecaff166a
20:05 sapier it makes menus fixed size again
20:07 VanessaE does that also affect the pause/ESC menu?
20:07 sapier all menus
20:07 VanessaE ok
20:08 sapier unless you're on android of course there only fonts will be broken for uhd displays
20:08 VanessaE gotta go.
20:08 VanessaE bbl
20:09 sapier at least it's only gonna be the high end smartphons which might be broken *ironic*
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20:15 sapier ShadowNinja: do you insist on implmeneting security (your new name for plugins) prior doing the client side lua stuff?
20:16 ShadowNinja sapier: ? What are plugins?
20:16 ShadowNinja sapier: Read my security pull.  It just removes things like os.execute.
20:16 sapier those separated unloadable lua(modules)plugins you're trying to get done for about 2 years ;-)
20:17 sapier oh you've been talking about that one only?
20:17 ShadowNinja sapier: That's more related to my non-global mod namespaces.
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20:18 ShadowNinja sapier: Yes, I haven't written a full-blown plugin patch yet.
20:18 sapier well I'd not have issues with this beeing merged yet as I said I'd not want to use same code as for server side modding as I'd expect this to be to risky
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20:49 luizrpgluiz hi
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21:51 hmmmm sapier:  hah, mitigating risk by shoving the blame for it on me, huh :p
21:51 hmmmm ShadowNinja, that would break some peoples' mods
21:51 sapier nope hmmmm I've just promised I'm not gonna touch forspec code again
21:51 hmmmm they have things like map generators written in native code that they execute
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21:52 hmmmm it's stupid i know
21:52 hmmmm sapier:  ok
21:52 hmmmm although I think it's fine
21:52 luizrpgluiz hi
21:53 sapier well that's what they demanded I don't know why it's so complicated to do it themselfs
21:53 hmmmm luizrpgluiz, do you have anything say in regard to minetest development?
21:53 hmmmm i'm just wondering because you always come in, say hi, then leave, rince and repeat
21:53 hmmmm sapier, you shouldn't let those kind people with pitchforks bother you
21:54 sapier hmmmmm I know yet this time it's not been the usual suspects but basicall everyone ... I'm tired of fighting everyone especially if the most controversial part ain't even my work
21:55 luizrpgluiz for example, the version of minetest 0.5, will add the DirectX9 minetest in the menu?
21:55 hmmmm what?
21:55 sapier drivers are autodetected from what irrlicht tells to be available
21:56 luizrpgluiz in version 0.4.11 not have the option to play with directx
21:56 sapier well in this case irrlicht is compiled without directX support
21:58 sapier didn't buildbot script have issues with directx?
21:59 luizrpgluiz the game does not open with the directx 9
22:00 sapier luizrpgluiz: did you read what I told?
22:00 luizrpgluiz sorry sapier
22:00 sapier if irrlicht is compiled without directx(9) support you're never gonna be able to start it using directx
22:02 luizrpgluiz but because the engine no longer supports the directx?
22:02 kilbith sapier: just stop the self-inflated melodrama, we have just reported what was wrong with the scaling and attached bugs, downstream to your testing requests. not attacked you personnally.
22:03 kilbith if you call that bothering, i won't just report anything to you
22:04 sapier luizrpgluiz: what do you expect from directX9? we neither do use any of it's features nor is it faster
22:04 sapier kilbith: just stop everything is told that had to be todl
22:05 luizrpgluiz I have a friend who rode well with directx out instead of using opengl
22:06 sapier so it's not about directx9 but directx itself?
22:06 sapier that makes sense as directx drivers on windows quite often are better then opengl
22:07 sapier which build did you use luizrpgluiz?
22:09 luizrpgluiz he only changed the minetest.conf and added the line of DirectX and the game became faster
22:10 sapier ok which version?
22:11 Krock interesting. direct3d is slightly slower than opengl on my machine
22:13 sapier Krock: depends on your driver recent drivers do better opengl handling as games use it more
22:13 sapier about 5 years ago opengl was almost not relevant for games
22:14 Krock my driver is from year 2010
22:14 sapier you use drivers that old?
22:14 hmmmm iirc a lot of AAA game developers have said that opengl is technically superior to direct3d
22:14 Krock I use a graphic card which is some years older
22:15 sapier hmmmm I guess that depends on which version
22:15 hmmmm OGL 4 vs. DX11
22:15 luizrpgluiz my drivers is newer
22:16 hmmmm hmm
22:16 luizrpgluiz intel hd graphics
22:16 hmmmm I wonder what minetest does if fullscreen is enabled with a resolution not supported
22:16 luizrpgluiz intel hd graphics ironlake mobile
22:16 sapier well 2 years between directx 11 and opengl4
22:17 Krock drawtime 25 (direct3d9) vs 18 (oppengl 2.1).. seems like opengl got a much better support than direct3d :3
22:17 sapier nice
22:18 sapier still why doesn't luizrpgluiz have directx available in settings menu, the only possible reason is our build is without directx support
22:19 luizrpgluiz ok
22:19 Krock ehm. direct3d10 or 11 is not supported by irrlicht
22:19 Krock of you're talking about that
22:19 Krock *if
22:20 sapier nope 10 or 11 was only mentioned by hmmmm for comparing standards
22:20 sapier it's not relevant for us
22:20 sapier we don't even use dx9 features ;-)
22:20 Krock maybe we should use some
22:21 sapier do you know directx programming?
22:21 sapier you're welcome to help ;-)
22:21 Krock never looked at it :3
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22:21 Krock well, I'll spend some time on it tomorrow. nighty'all
22:22 sapier same for me ... and I don't know anyone who does ;-)
22:22 compunerd joined #minetest-dev
22:32 hmmmm wooh.. surprisingly minetest works well with fullscreen
22:33 hmmmm unlike nearly everything else
22:33 hmmmm it hates my dual monitor setup with the secondary monitor on my left.. nothing works with it
22:35 sapier "well" as in uses only one monitor?
22:35 hmmmm right
22:35 hmmmm that's what I want it to do
22:35 hmmmm it's much better than other games that...
22:35 hmmmm - use the leftmost monitor
22:35 sapier well It'd be nice if it did use all monotors for me ;-)
22:35 hmmmm - reset to windowed mode and spawn itself in the center of my two monitors
22:35 hmmmm - hang
22:36 sapier well I don't have that isssue as I use xinerama
22:36 hmmmm - set the resolution to something lower than the screen size and turn panning mode on
22:36 hmmmm life as a non-windows gamer, ahh...
22:37 sapier I'd have to mess around with fov too to get a good result
22:37 hmmmm yup, you need to manually set fov or disable all monitors but the primary one in order for the aspect ratio to work correctly for far cry 2 and 3
22:38 hmmmm pretty much the standard for the "AAA" type games today
22:40 sapier guess multimonitor would be nice but I don't even wanna know how formspec will look like there
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