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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-01-09

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Time Nick Message
00:00 sapier but still if someone sees a way how to fix or even only improve it which I don't see, tell me!
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03:00 ezraanderson so stupid question, you enter CMD through the chat console, correct?
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04:55 VanessaE sapier: (for the logs)  I don't have a preference for font *face*.  I only care that, on PC, fonts are consistently sized across formspecs, chat, etc. like they would be were this, say, a GTK or QT application using the desktop's own font settings.  Making formspec elements scale by window size is questionable on PC, but making fonts scale by window size is stupid.
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05:36 hmmmm agh i wish sapier were around right now
05:43 Zeno` So do I. I suppose I could fix this formspec line input issue myself :(
05:45 hmmmm haha you can't fix anything related to formspec without sapier ... just try
05:45 Zeno` well that's why I've been avoiding it (that and I don't really want to do it myself heh)
05:53 Zeno` I remember this same discussion I had with RBA about 3 months ago
05:53 Zeno` oops, wrong channel
05:53 Zeno` but that's directed at hmmmm
05:54 hmmmm yeah
05:54 hmmmm i dunno \(O_o)/
05:54 Zeno` I'll look through the logs and if needed change that patch, comment it or document it (whichever is more appropriate)
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11:30 Zeno` where is sapier?
11:30 Zeno` formspecs are broken
11:34 Zeno` just reading the logs
11:34 Zeno` sapier: the font (typeface) has *nothing* to do with what's broken
11:35 Zeno` I can type in a formspec (e.g. the "chat" one) and what I type is hidden
11:35 Zeno` the line edit control does not scroll properly to the left so half of what I type is not visible
11:35 Zeno` buttons overlap
11:36 Zeno` nothing fits
11:36 Zeno` it's broken
11:36 Zeno` the size of the font is NOT dependant on the size of a formspec and should not be scaled as such :/
11:37 kilbith also, 0.75 scaling makes the inventory too small : https://lut.im/pVo9OrUA/OuXUp6vI
11:37 Zeno` 0.75 scaling does not fix the broken stuff
11:37 Zeno` e.g. open the "chat box" (I dunno what it's really called)
11:38 Zeno` type in a long sentence. When you get to the end of the "text input widget" it doesn't scroll. So you can't even see what you're typing
11:38 Zeno` Pause menu is broken (text flows outside the buttons)
11:38 Zeno` Inventory is broken (too small)
11:39 Zeno` Custom formspecs are broken, overlapping text, stuff not fitting inside buttons or lists etc etc etc
11:39 Zeno` Why would (should) the font change scale because of the size of the dialog (formspec)?
11:39 Zeno` That makes no sense at all
11:40 kilbith then he will says that's subjective and not precised enough for fixing
11:40 Zeno` If I say I want font size 12 then I want font size 12
11:40 Zeno` and that font size must be the same in every formspec
11:40 Zeno` otherwise it's chaos
11:40 Zeno` it's not subjective at all
11:41 Zeno` if a formspec does not work, it does not work
11:41 Zeno` end of story
11:41 Zeno` so this crap needs to be fixed or reverted :/
11:41 kilbith +1
11:46 Zeno` has anyone even looked at these changes?
11:47 Zeno` They're terrible
11:49 Amaz They are dreadful.
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11:53 Zeno` It's (the client is) basically unusable
12:00 Amaz ^
12:15 celeron55 lol, apparently the apk i made has my complete mods directory in it too
12:15 celeron55 or, that's what people are saying
12:16 celeron55 yeah, looks like it
12:19 celeron55 holy fuck these feedback replies are long
12:19 celeron55 what i asked was a list of blocking issues, not a full review of the god damn game lol 8D
12:30 sfan5 you won't get either of that from google play reviews
12:38 Wayward_One Zeno`, I completely agree
12:38 celeron55 i can't really make much out of this, it seems that there are just infinite small details that should be fixed, and there isn't any way of prioritizing them
12:43 Zeno` Wayward_One, well sapier must fix it or revert it :(
12:44 Amaz How long will that take?
12:44 Zeno` To fix or revert?
12:44 Amaz Either.
12:45 Zeno` To fix... I dunno; I haven't really looked closely
12:45 Zeno` to revert (for non-android) about 30 seconds
12:45 Amaz Right. But sapier has to do it?
12:45 Zeno` He doesn't have to, but it would be preferable
12:45 Amaz Yeah.
12:46 Amaz That's what I though.
12:46 Zeno` If it's still the same in 36 hours I guess I'll disable it for non-android
12:47 Zeno` because it's clearly broken and I don't want to spend the time making things work when I don't even know what he's trying to achieve (because it makes no sense to me)
12:48 Zeno` In the meantime I guess we're stuck with mostly not working formspecs
12:49 Zeno` I can't even chat with other players unless I use the console because the "chat dialog" doesn't work. I can't see what I'm typing if I type more than about 8 words hehe
12:49 gregorycu lol @ formspec worries
12:50 Zeno` gregorycu, it's not a small issue when they're not usable :P
12:50 Zeno` join a server. press / to open the "chat dialog". Type a long sentence
12:51 gregorycu I don't have main
12:51 Amaz Why not t?
12:51 Zeno` or t
12:51 gregorycu There is no low-hanging fruit in Map::spreadLight in terms of optimisation, as far as I can see
12:52 Zeno` gregorycu, it all got eaten :(
12:52 gregorycu Do you seriously have problems with fluids with 4 players exploring?
12:52 Zeno` so, yeah. press t, type a long sentence
12:52 Zeno` gregorycu, it's not only me. It's most servers
12:52 Zeno` (if not all)
12:53 Zeno` I actually only became aware of it because of reports from other server operators
12:53 gregorycu I have, it seems to work properly
12:53 gregorycu Again, I don't have main
12:53 gregorycu Or trunk
12:53 Zeno` main? as in head?
12:54 gregorycu Whatever git calls it
12:54 Zeno` oh yeah, it worked until a day or so ago
12:54 gregorycu Yes
12:55 Zeno` pfft you need to get more gitified :P
12:56 Zeno` we will have to wean you off that terrible MSVC source control system
12:56 Zeno` heheh
12:56 gregorycu Alright, I'm going to get all this sorted for a PR
12:56 Zeno` :-o
12:57 celeron55 this formspec thing is probably a mistake that sapier will fix once he pops up in here next time
12:58 Zeno` yep, I hope so celeron55. I'm just going by the logs where it seemed there was no acknowledgement of the issue at all
12:58 Zeno` hopefully sapier is here soon
12:59 celeron55 the dpi stuff is quite chaotic though, not sure how it should be handled; i'm hoping enough iteration will sort it out
13:03 Zeno` I just don't understand why font size should be modified based upon the dimensions of the current formspec
13:03 Zeno` No GUI does (or ever has done) that
13:04 Zeno` Fair enough setting/scaling the font at the start (setup stage) but after that 12pt should be ... 12 pt
13:05 Zeno` and not change depending on what the formspec is
13:06 Zeno` celeron55, regarding your forum post...
13:07 Zeno` Isn't sapier the android maintainer?
13:07 kahrl Zeno`: I wouldn't say no GUI does that... see http://phlak.github.io/jColorClock/
13:08 Zeno` kahrl, fine :p
13:08 kahrl but it's definitely a strange thing to do :P
13:08 Zeno` pity it doesn't fit in my browser window lol
13:09 Zeno` but now it does
13:09 Zeno` BUG!
13:10 Zeno` gosh I cannot see after looking at that link
13:10 Zeno` I am blinded
13:10 Zeno` Anyway, related the Android. KodexKy does seem to have his head screwed on right
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13:12 Zeno` sapier, I have bad news
13:12 Zeno` formspecs and font scaling are broken :(
13:13 sapier no they aren't they're correct for the first time in minetests history
13:13 Zeno` no, they're broken
13:13 Amaz ^
13:13 Zeno` <Zeno`> so, yeah. press t, type a long sentence
13:13 sapier what exactly do you believe to justify calling them to be broken
13:13 Zeno` I can't even see what I'm typing after about 8 words
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13:14 Zeno` also, the size of the font changes with the formspec dimensions
13:14 sapier first one is a bug
13:14 Zeno` overlapping text, controls, etc, etc, etc
13:14 sapier last one is intended behaviour
13:14 Zeno` how can that be intended?
13:14 sapier overlapping text should only happen if that formspec was broken at 800x600 before
13:15 kahrl sapier, look at the logs
13:15 Zeno` well I can assure you that formspecs that worked before are now broken
13:15 sapier well see by now most of the formspec elements did scale according to window size
13:15 kahrl it seems noone "intends" the font to scale with the GUI
13:15 Zeno` and not custom formspecs either
13:15 Zeno` builtin formspecs
13:15 kahrl (except you)
13:15 sapier ok guys if you insist on this beeing broken the only thing I can do is revert all the font fixes and fork a fixed minetest version
13:16 sapier because I'm not gonna continue to work on this if you insist on half of formspec elements scaling to window half to something else and this particular element for everyone different
13:16 sapier that'd just be ridiculous
13:17 sapier we fixed formspec scaling yes, this causes some formspecs to break yes
13:18 celeron55 Zeno`: sapier has so much other things to do than android that it would really help if someone would focus on that
13:18 sapier still we NOW have formspecs who's layout looks same no matter if screen is 800x600 or 1920x1280
13:18 celeron55 i think sapier himself probably agrees too 8)
13:18 sapier android ain't even involved here celeron55 the font scaling fixes broke it initially too
13:19 celeron55 yes i know that this is not android specific, it just makes my point even stronger :P
13:19 sapier that fix is basicaly a formspec cleanup and I knew it'd cause discussions ... what I didn new is even VanessaE who actually triggered this way of fixing it would complain
13:20 celeron55 it looked to me at some point that maybe the font-ui size ratio is just wrong?
13:20 Zeno` Why wouldn't people complain? It breaks stuff. It makes this inconsistent. A 12pt font (scaled to 7.5 or whatever at the start) should be the same for all formspecs
13:20 celeron55 but i don't even know anymore
13:21 sapier that's what I tried to ask for a couple of hours yesterday ;-) If it's only font ui ratio we can fix it
13:21 sapier BUT
13:21 sapier if someone did assume a fixed font and designed his formspecs this way those will still be broken as with consistent layouts the font increases
13:21 Zeno` It is *only* the size. The size, which can be scaled as part of setup, must remain the same though
13:21 Zeno` no matter the size of the formspec
13:21 sapier yet ... we could solve this by providing a font size property to formspecs
13:22 sapier no zeno because if we assume a pixel fixed font size we cannot provide any autoadjustment to different dpi of screen
13:22 Zeno` yes you can
13:23 sapier no you can't
13:23 Zeno` you adjust the font size at the start
13:23 Zeno` the screen DPI does not change because the size of the formspec changes
13:23 sapier still It's crazy to scale half of formspec to window size but not fonts
13:24 sapier I'm quite sure this is what you guys makes call it broken
13:24 Zeno` font size must be fixed (after scaling).
13:24 sapier then formspec size has to be fixed too
13:24 Zeno` well, no.. formspec size should be the thing that changes and not the font scaling
13:25 sapier NO godamn
13:25 sapier we have formspec positioning set based uppon formspec size
13:25 Zeno` i.e. a) at setup scale the font size to match the screen DPI
13:25 sapier how are you expected to ever do a fixed layout if you don't even know where your elements are placed
13:25 Zeno` wth does formspec size have to do with screen DPI?
13:26 sapier formspec size is related to window size
13:26 sapier same are all positions of formspec elements
13:26 Zeno` yes, and why should fonts change because of that? DPI is constant
13:26 sapier except those where font height is used to adjust this position
13:26 sapier which is crazy true
13:26 kahrl I guess this battle can't be won (by either side) unless a reasonable layout engine is added to formspecs :/
13:27 sapier but it's been implemented this way
13:27 Zeno` sapier, but it does not work
13:27 sapier we have elements whery y position is "y*dpi*gui-scaling + FONT HEIGHT"
13:27 Zeno` If it worked would people be complaining?
13:27 sapier it did not work
13:27 sapier it works for 96 dpi screens only
13:27 Zeno` great
13:28 sapier once you have anything significant different it's broken
13:28 Zeno` and what about those with 72 or 101 dpi screens?
13:28 sapier significant !
13:28 sapier 150 for example
13:29 Zeno` ok.. why is a "12pt" font a different size in different dialogs(forms)?
13:29 sapier because pause menu as well as main menu use fixed size formspecs
13:29 sapier chat might use fixed size too
13:29 Zeno` If I change the size of the Window I am chatting in right now the font does not change size
13:30 sapier as I said our built in formspecs use fixed size formspecs
13:30 sapier they're not gonna scale to window size too
13:30 Zeno` so it's going to be left unusable?
13:31 sapier we're still looking for a way to improve it
13:31 sapier talking about fixed size what about making all formspecs fixed size by default?
13:31 kahrl who is we?
13:32 sapier at least I am still looking for solutions not beeing "just remove the font scaling"
13:32 Zeno` font scaling is fine. Just don't change it based on a formspec size
13:32 Zeno` fix formspecs if that's the issue :(
13:33 sapier godamn Zeno` what's so hard on understand that formspec positioning is related to font size
13:33 Zeno` sapier, nothing
13:33 sapier if you don't scale the font size according to the formspec size the layout is broken
13:33 Zeno` but it's broken now
13:33 Zeno` and it worked before
13:33 Zeno` so something has to be done
13:34 sapier ok I'm reverting all the font fixes I'm sick of it it's useless to keep all this code it it's effectivly unused
13:34 kahrl well... if you absolutely want to keep compatibility, you can compute an "internal" font size (= the current scaled font size) which is only used for positioning formspec elements
13:35 kahrl but don't use this internal "font size" as the actual font size
13:35 Zeno` that might work
13:35 sapier no kahrl formspec positioning is already silly and broken enough I'm not gonna make it even worse. I had a fix where positioning was unchained from font size but as this would've required fixing formspecs at 800x600 VanessaE demanded zefram fyshs version of fixing it
13:37 sapier If I add additional hacks you'll be even less able to use the positions. it's trial and error now because the numbers don't really reflect the positions
13:37 Zeno` can the "fixing" be automated?
13:37 sapier no it can't
13:37 kahrl so use the clean positioning only if formspec version >= X
13:37 sapier because we don't know how the formspec was expected to look like
13:37 kahrl and remove the compatiblity shims for old formspec versions in a year or so
13:38 sapier then we're gonna have this discussion in about a year again
13:38 sapier I see three options
13:38 kahrl yeah but much fewer formspecs that will be broken by the change
13:38 sapier 1) revert this in total
13:39 sapier noone is gonna change the formspecs
13:39 sapier because formspec itself doesn't have a version
13:39 sapier server sends what formspec version level he uses but not each individual formspec
13:40 sapier and in between we had dual code because mixing this up is unmaintainable
13:40 kahrl ah I forgot about that :/
13:41 sapier 2) switch to clean positioning ... fight all the attacks and have it fixed once and for all
13:41 sapier 3) adjust the current fix ... a little bit less fighting but don't have consistent positioning
13:42 sapier well if I did knew how much fighting even 3 was I'd have taken 2 at the beginning
13:42 sapier At least I now understand what problem we have
13:43 sapier Zeno can you show me an example where texts overlapp? I'd wanna know if it's a bug or really a design issue
13:43 sapier kahrl: we could allow users to specify the version manually
13:44 sapier formspec version so your suggestion would be possible
13:44 kahrl yeah that's how I thought it worked
13:44 sapier if we really wanna keep two versions of guiFormspecMenu.cpp
13:45 kahrl it seems strange to me anyway that this is hardcoded in the engine
13:45 sapier but if we do it this way I insist on making the old one read only... no additions, no fixes
13:45 kahrl there are pretty much no formspecs supplied by the engine (except on the client side, and there it doesn't matter)
13:45 kahrl sapier: yeah, fine by me
13:46 sapier well we use it to switch to compatibility mode if new clients connect to old servers which usually have old mods
13:46 sapier but we'd have to tell modders they have to set the correct formspec version thus we need to add this information to each and any formspec descritption
13:47 sapier quite a lot of work for a temporary feature ;-)
13:47 kahrl well I guess it'll be useful for other things too
13:47 sapier for example?
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13:48 kahrl changing the meaning of some formspec element attributes or whatever
13:48 kahrl idk
13:49 sapier I'd not even try to do this knowing what discussions this would cause
13:49 gregorycu Is this a good time to talk about json based formspecs?
13:49 sapier NO
13:49 gregorycu lol
13:49 kahrl gregorycu: there's never a good time for that :P
13:49 sapier unless you wanna be muted forever
13:49 gregorycu I know, but this seemed like an especially bad time
13:49 Zeno` sapier, I was mistaken. All the default formspecs seems fine (apart from the font size changing)
13:49 gregorycu Actually, maybe this is a good time
13:50 gregorycu I'm not being funny
13:50 Zeno` so do formspecs use normalised device coordinates?
13:50 gregorycu old formspec = legacy support,  json formspec = new positioning
13:50 sapier Zeno`: partial
13:51 sapier base is normalized to window size but some of them (not using any scheme) apply font height offset
13:52 gregorycu What I'm trying to say, "clean positioning with json,  old positioning with formspec"
13:52 sapier gregorycu: json formspecs would be same crap as current, it'd be a non standard gui description language. why do same mistake twice?
13:53 gregorycu Is there a standard gui description language?
13:53 gregorycu lol, html?
13:53 sapier there are quite some existing languages
13:53 Zeno` there are a lot of "standards" as well
13:53 sapier well html is one of them you believe it to be too complex for us? look at how formspec grew
13:54 Zeno` just looking at the code, sorry I've gone relatively quiet
13:54 sapier Zeno`: formspec code is ugly and you always ask WHY on reading it but that's historical ;)
13:55 gregorycu I noticed an issue about this
13:55 gregorycu Which is why I bring it up
13:55 sapier the issue please
13:55 Zeno` If it was me I'd redesign formspec entirely and have some kind of conversion to the new spec for older clients (even if the older clients look terrible)
13:56 sapier celeron55: just pushed the gui/hud scaling split
13:56 sapier hopefully ppl can now adjust main menu size on android to match their feel without breaking the controls
13:56 Zeno` It's not an easy thing; I just don't think the current state is good at all
13:57 sapier Zeno`: you're free to redesign it
13:57 sapier just don't write same crap in different format
13:57 gregorycu bb in 5
13:57 Zeno` well I would but I'd rather see the current issues "fixed" somehow first
13:58 sapier well there's no fix not breaking other things
13:58 Zeno` I would not make the same mistake; I've written GUI specs more than once
13:58 sapier best "fix" I can suggest is progressing even further and add font size support
13:58 sapier so everyone can say "this font -3" size compared to exected size
13:59 sapier as I said formspec is prone to redesign but if this is done it's supposed to be done right this time
13:59 sapier meaning it has to contain all those things written in our formspec redesign issue discussion
14:00 Zeno` but what to do in the meantime?
14:01 sapier depends on what you expect to spend that month of full time work to get it done?
14:01 sapier -what + when
14:01 Zeno` I'm sorry... I agree that your changes are in the right direction but I cannot agree that they're "acceptable"
14:01 Zeno` (at the moment)
14:02 sapier well I'm not gonna keep that code in if all of it's result is just thrown away and fixed size is used again
14:02 Zeno` Does it work "as expected" on Android?
14:02 sapier but it's not your turn when do you expect to have that month of work done
14:03 sapier it works same as on pc
14:03 Zeno` I guess there are fewer Android players complaining
14:03 sapier the only difference is on android different screen dpi's are way more common then on pc
14:04 sapier so there the previous issues we had have been way more visible
14:04 Zeno` well, my screen DPI is 101 but I can change that to test with 96
14:04 sapier I don't think 5 dpi difference will cause a lot of change
14:04 sapier actually our gui was designed to 72 dpi ... that's why it did increase when I added support for screen dpi detection
14:07 sapier what about a setting "legacy_formspec_positioning"
14:08 Zeno` that might work
14:08 sapier well it'd not solve any issue as noone would fix the formspecs
14:08 Zeno` you said the server sends a "formspec version"?
14:08 sapier yes
14:09 sapier server formspec version
14:09 kahrl the setting would be too much hassle if you have to check/uncheck it whenever you connect to a different server
14:09 sapier true
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14:09 sapier what about making formspecs fixed size by default?
14:10 sapier yes they'd be different then by now but they'd be no worse then on 800x600
14:10 kahrl I don't know what the implications of that are
14:10 sapier and a moder having fixed them can make it non fixed again
14:10 Zeno` so although formspecs have not changed can the formspec version be bumped anyway? And if new clients use the font scaling then they will use that, otherwise fallback to old behaviour? Errr, that needs more thought actually
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14:11 sapier formspec version is used to switch from exact parameter count checking to relaxed
14:11 sapier if client and server do mismatch client tries to interpret the formspec even if he'd expect more parameters for it
14:11 sapier or less
14:11 sapier eg, someone adds a parameter to an element
14:12 sapier if formspec versions are identical a different parameter count is considered as error
14:12 sapier if client version is different check is only done if all parameters required for client are there
14:13 Zeno` can legacy_formspec_positioning = true be added to the protocol then?
14:13 sapier no
14:13 Zeno` damn
14:13 Zeno` it can't be a parameter?
14:13 sapier it could but it wouldn't solve our main issue
14:13 sapier code duplication
14:14 sapier hmm
14:14 sapier maybe
14:14 Zeno` is code duplication so bad if it's a "transitionary" feature?
14:15 sapier we could do it same as we do for version
14:15 sapier first scan for this parameter then do the formspec evaluation
14:15 sapier but the modders would have to add it to their formspecs
14:15 Zeno` that's what I mean
14:15 celeron55 what is the main issue right now?
14:15 sapier fonts do scale according to formspec size
14:16 Zeno` but it will give them time to update them... especially if the old format is somehow clearly communicated as deprecated
14:16 sapier while modders expect them to keep same size
14:16 celeron55 that is a quite vague explanation
14:16 celeron55 is there a series of screenshots showcasing it in practice?
14:16 sapier Zeno?
14:16 Zeno` the issue is that the font size changes depending on the formspec size
14:17 Zeno` I think there is an open issue
14:17 celeron55 _why_ is it an issue
14:17 Zeno` with screenshots
14:17 Zeno` celeron55, because formspecs that expect a fixed size font have overlapping text, controls, etc, etc
14:17 celeron55 i know what the claimed issue is but i want proof that it actually an issue in some actual usage scenario
14:17 sapier you mean #2077?
14:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2077 -- Disharmonious GUI/Font scaling
14:18 celeron55 why can't the font size be made small enough that most existing formspecs work reasonably?
14:18 celeron55 i have asked this before, but i haven't got an answer
14:18 Zeno` I'll make some screenshots then
14:19 gregorycu New PR #2091
14:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2091 -- Speed up extent calculations by gregorycu
14:19 sapier #2077 doesn't show any critical issue at least for me
14:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2077 -- Disharmonious GUI/Font scaling
14:19 celeron55 looks like i am not getting an answer this time either, come on guys
14:20 celeron55 IS THE FORMSPEC SIZE VS. FONT SIZE RATIO SIMPLY WRONG?
14:20 sapier I'm glad it's not only me not getting answers :-)
14:21 celeron55 i'm not even mad, this is so stupid it's funny
14:21 gregorycu Fixed sized font = monospeced?
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14:21 sapier well ... as long as you're not involved for sure ;-)
14:22 sapier I'm gonna merge #2051 in a few minutes
14:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2051 -- Fix memory leaks due to messed up memory handling for particles as well ... by sapier
14:23 Zeno` Ugh, I have to install more mods
14:23 celeron55 i recommend reading and following this to all core developers: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=50&amp;t=10895
14:24 Zeno` here's one (unfortunately it's not too bad): http://i.imgur.com/F9baJUG.jpg
14:24 celeron55 it's a game that seems to attempt to really step up the quality of things, and it's your work which is going to kill it 8)
14:24 Zeno` VoXus looks amazing
14:24 celeron55 Zeno`: i see in that screenshot that the formspec size is too small compared to font size
14:25 celeron55 assuming that fonts scale with the formspec, it means formspecs are simply too small for fonts
14:25 celeron55 the solution is to change the ratio between them
14:26 sapier I'm not sure about this celeron, I believe the CLear Inventory button has a fixed size
14:26 sapier well maybe numbers could be a little smaller too true
14:27 kilbith 0.75 scaling makes the inventory too small : https://lut.im/pVo9OrUA/OuXUp6vI
14:27 celeron55 this could potentially solve the inventory size too
14:28 sapier so is it really font size <-> formspec size relation?
14:28 sapier that'd not be a big deal to fix
14:29 Zeno` I wish I could remember what server I was playing on earlier today
14:29 kahrl well I just tried it, the font size in the pause menu is huge, the one in the HUD and the option menus is what I'd call normal, and the one in the inventory is tiny
14:30 kahrl it just seems stupid to me to have different font sizes there
14:30 Zeno` I agree with that
14:30 Zeno` I'm just trying to find the form where things were unreadable
14:30 kahrl I didn't find any that was unreadable to me
14:31 sapier kahrl can you tell me what window size?
14:31 sapier it's important ;-)
14:31 sapier hmm ok I see it
14:31 kahrl how can I find out (in xfce)?
14:32 sapier I don't know whenn it changed but it seems to be full screen on 800x600
14:32 sapier full window of course
14:32 sapier it should be same as main menu ... wonder why it ain't
14:33 sapier wait ... we changed this a few weeks ago
14:36 sapier wtf ... I guess we've got overlapping issue shere
14:39 Zeno` http://i.imgur.com/zZQP0TA.jpg
14:39 Zeno` ^ that is not the worst example I've seen but the closet I can find so far
14:40 sapier well this might be ecaclty what I was talking about ... some elements using font height for positioning
14:41 sapier and for the upper line ... yes if the second part of the text was manually placed right behind the first and font size is changed slightly you get overlaps ... well as celeron suggested we could adjust font size to work for this example
14:43 Zeno` the overlapping stuff can probably be easily fixed. What I am most opposed to is font sizes changing based on formspec size
14:43 sapier but the formspec as well as half of it's elements change size too
14:43 celeron55 we don't have dynamic layouting and will not have dynamic layouting; thus we should scale fonts with the UI
14:44 celeron55 it's as simple as that
14:44 Zeno` yes, so the formspec should expand
14:44 Zeno` not the font
14:44 sapier if the formspec gets bigger but not the font the layout changes
14:46 Zeno` but it's not... consistent. Why does the font size change? If any other GUI in the world changed font size just because the window size changed I'd consider them (the developers) crazy
14:46 sapier kahrl the big pause menu is a unwanted sideeffect of some other change I'm gonna fix it
14:46 sapier Zeno`: what you suggest ain't consistent
14:47 Zeno` sapier, open an xterm
14:47 kahrl sapier: why is it not consistent?
14:47 sapier Zeno gui's usually HAVE dynamic positioning, we don't
14:47 Zeno` now use your window manager to change the size of that xterm
14:47 gregorycu Window size is one way of looking at it
14:47 Zeno` yes, but the font size does not change
14:47 gregorycu But another way of looking at it is the resolution changes
14:48 sapier draw an image in gimp then change the image size
14:48 sapier you've two ways to do it
14:48 Zeno` window size has nothing to do with resolution
14:48 sapier add borders
14:48 sapier or scale the image
14:48 sapier by now we did scale the image but keep the fonts somehow positionend while everything else was scaled
14:49 Zeno` sapier, change the window size of your IRC client
14:49 Zeno` does the font size change?
14:49 sapier no but do your icon sizes change on scaling your window?
14:50 sapier for minetest this happens
14:50 gregorycu I know a lot of games where the main menu fonts scale with window size
14:50 sapier any image being part of a formspec hanges it's size but fonts don't is this consistent?
14:51 sapier kahrl could you have a gui_scaling_factor set in your minetest.conf?
14:51 kahrl I don't
14:52 sapier are you sure? because the menus did increase when I did autodetect dpi
14:53 kahrl in fact I just deleted my minetest.conf and it's still the same
14:53 sapier as our menu is designed for 72 dpi it increases on almost anyones 96 dpi screen
14:53 sapier ok
14:53 sapier do you have more then 96 dpi? ;-)
14:53 kahrl no idea, probably not
14:53 sapier can you provide a screenshot?
14:53 kahrl sure
14:54 sapier Zeno`: ? do you get what I'm talking about?
14:55 sapier we don't have autoexpanding formspec components so which one is supposed to use the room you add?
14:55 Zeno` I just took 20 screenshots and opened them all in Gimp. I scaled each of them to 50%. The resulting "font sizes" in each of the rescaled images is the same
14:56 sapier now take tose screenshots and a minetest window if everything works as expected you should get same on increasing decreasing the window size
14:56 Zeno` nah, because I am taking a screenshot of the entire screen
14:56 sapier except of those formspecs using fixed size
14:57 sapier meaning mainmenu, pause, chat
14:57 sapier not sure about inventory but I think that one aint fixed
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15:10 kahrl sapier: http://i.imgur.com/NEozLKP.png
15:10 kahrl sorry for the delay, had to fight with gimp...
15:14 Zeno` you can't have that many torches! CHEATER!
15:14 kahrl :D
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15:19 gregorycu git is fucking up for me, I run a command and it climbs to 4GB memory usage before failing
15:19 gregorycu git is great!
15:22 sapier kahlr looks slightly bigger then for me ... I wonder why
15:23 sapier if you have about 100dpi that's explain it ... sadly that information ain't shown anywhere
15:24 kahrl is there some magic xrandr command for that?
15:24 sapier yes I'm looking for it right now
15:24 sapier xdpyinfo  | grep resolution
15:25 kahrl resolution:    96x96 dots per inch
15:26 sapier ok I've got 95 ... that's most likely not the difference
15:26 sapier unless we're exactly at the turning point
15:27 sapier so we should reduce the fomt size a little bit kahrl?
15:27 kahrl doesn't change (as far as I can see) after xrandr --dpi 95
15:27 sapier you can tell it which dpi to use? really?
15:27 kahrl well my opinion is to make them the same in all formspecs
15:27 kahrl yep
15:28 sapier same font size for all formspecs but images scaling? are you serious?
15:28 kahrl I don't see the problem
15:29 sapier e.g. you have a icon image and a description to it
15:29 kahrl if you just reduce the factor it will be too small in the inventory
15:29 kahrl for me anyway
15:29 sapier while the icon scales up the description keeps small
15:29 kahrl yeah, why not?
15:29 kahrl if it's too far off you change the font size
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15:29 sapier let's say you scale it up by factor 4 because you don't see it on you high dpi screen
15:30 sapier you'll have that small unreadable text next to a nice icon
15:30 kahrl you would have the unreadable font everywhere so you change the font size
15:30 sapier if you change the font size your buttons ext fields etc are moved around
15:30 kahrl but since minetest reads the dpi it can choose a sane default font size
15:31 gregorycu In github, how do I resync my fork to minetest?
15:31 kahrl yeah, that needs to be fixed
15:31 sapier so you really prefere a broken layout to a consistend scaling one?
15:31 kahrl no
15:31 kahrl fix the layout
15:31 sapier I can't
15:31 kahrl we talked about how to do it
15:31 sapier not while keeping everything same
15:32 sapier I could make the positioning font independent yes
15:32 sapier but that's gonna break EVERY formspec
15:32 sapier it'd be the clean way of doing it
15:33 kahrl yeah, that's the reason for making it formspec version dependent
15:33 sapier and you're the one maintaining it?
15:33 kahrl the legacy formspecs get the old layout that only works on ~72dpi or whatever
15:33 kahrl what's there to maintain?
15:34 sapier mixing up old and new positioning is unmaintainable so we'd need to copy it
15:34 sapier thus we'd have two independent implementations in parallel
15:35 sapier unless everyone agrees to not change anything on old version and only work on new I'll not do this
15:35 kahrl if (m_font_size_dependent_layout) { .. blah .. } is unmaintainable?
15:35 sapier yes because the positioning is quite messed up atm by global variables and formspec element dependencys
15:35 hmmmm hrmmm
15:36 sapier I'll not add another variable to check and do even more complicated element positioning
15:36 hmmmm that screenshot kahrl posted is supposed to demonstrate the difference in scaling between formspec GUI and native irrlicht GUI?
15:36 hmmmm er what the lack of scaling vs. scaling does?
15:36 kahrl hmmmm: just the inconsistent font size between different forms
15:37 sapier kahrl that's by design half of these formspecs use fixed size
15:37 hmmmm sound volume isn't formspec though
15:37 kahrl well I made those screenshots from a user perspective
15:37 kahrl they don't know what formspecs and native irrlicht GUIs are
15:38 sapier well maybe we should just make sound volume a formspec ;-)
15:38 kahrl or whether a formspec is fixed size
15:38 hmmmm don't bother
15:38 hmmmm my plan is to eliminate a couple of those menus into one actual options page
15:38 sapier well we could make all of them fixed size
15:38 sapier that's minor
15:39 hmmmm the thing that's been holding me up is figuring out whether it should be scaled, how to scale it, do people even want scaling, etc.
15:39 kahrl sapier: it would still be the same problem with mod-provided formspecs
15:39 sapier What I don't like is this creapy scale some formspec elements but not all
15:40 sapier ok hmmm so I'm not gonna spend time on in game settings
15:40 Zeno` hmmmm, that will only solve the problem ob builtin formspecs
15:40 Zeno` s/ob/of
15:40 sapier ok one suggestion ... I'm gonna revert all those forspec font changes
15:40 sapier add versioning
15:41 sapier copy formspec and fix positioning in there
15:41 hmmmm unrelated question, but is there any way to have irrlicht autoselect the height/width of the element you're adding based on text size?
15:41 sapier AND declare old guiFormspecMenu.cpp read only
15:41 Zeno` err
15:42 sapier Zeno`: ? a little bit more information then "err"
15:42 sapier hmmmm: I don't think so
15:42 Zeno` add the versioning and a fallback for old clients
15:42 sapier nope
15:42 sapier if a formspec has new version there's not gonna be a fallback but an error
15:43 sapier so a mod using new formspec wont show correct on old clients
15:43 sapier I cannot convert formspecs otf
15:43 Zeno` we don't release new clients often enough for that to be a viable solution :(
15:43 kahrl sapier: btw it is already the case that some elements scale and some don't
15:43 kahrl checkboxes
15:43 sapier then there ain't any solution Zeno`
15:44 Zeno` ok, maybe I am misunderstanding. I'll wait to see what you implement
15:44 sapier kahrl: there are plenty of cases that need to be fixed
15:44 sapier we fixed a few of them yet ... font wasn't the last thing
15:44 Zeno` just, please, keep the font size the same across formspecs :/
15:45 Zeno` (for the same point size)
15:45 sapier no because I wont spend a week of development to just have same discussion again
15:45 sapier unless we have a general agreement on doing it this way I won't even start
15:45 sapier of course we'll have to fix things once it's done
15:46 Zeno` look, if I specify "I want a the font size to be 10pt" I expect it to be 10pt (even if it's pre-scaled)
15:46 sapier Zeno I'm gonna keek either everything same size or nothing
15:46 sapier I'm not gonna do this crazy scale something again
15:46 Zeno` I don't expect 10pt in one formspec to look different to 10pt in an different formspec
15:46 Zeno` you don't scale for each formspec!
15:46 Zeno` you scale once
15:46 sapier I'm gonna remove the font size setting as it's not usefull at all
15:47 sapier crap each independent formspec element is scaled
15:47 sapier I'm gonna scale all or none
15:47 sapier not some
15:47 Zeno` what's so hard to understand?
15:48 Zeno` 10pt (after initial scaling) must look the same and be the same size everywhere it's used
15:49 sapier then we need to remove the support for different forms of formspecs
15:49 sapier no fixed autoscale any longer
15:49 sapier I'll be glad to remove this crap
15:49 sapier I never wanted it anyway
15:49 Zeno` it has to autoscale because the "actual" point size of the font is not known until after client init
15:50 Zeno` s/point size/pixel size(width or height)
15:50 sapier non autoscale was initially added because mainmenu did look crazy whith all that "empty" room in between it's elements
15:51 sapier now as we have (almost) all scaling we actually wouldn't have that issue any longer
15:52 sapier zeno you want all fonts to have same size?
15:52 sapier right?
15:53 Zeno` If I want a 10pt font (no matter the final pixel dimensions) I expect it to be the same size wherever it's shown
15:53 sapier so no fixed forms any longer?
15:54 sapier that's crucial becaus font height is tied to layout way to close
15:54 sapier if we fix it we could make font heigth independent
15:54 Zeno` well, check if the form is fixed size
15:54 sapier but that's gonna break almost all formspecs
15:55 sapier no I'm not doing additional checks zeno either we clean it up or revert it ... we're not gonna make it even more messy
15:55 Zeno` well, I can't and won't make that decision
15:55 Zeno` But I will say that I do not like the current behaviour and would revert it
15:56 sapier good because by now we're at a dead end everyone doesn't want something different to not be changed at all
15:56 sapier so we cannot fix anything
15:57 hmmmm oooh controversy
15:58 hmmmm am i like the only one who dgaf about formspec scaling
15:58 sapier "dgaf"?
15:58 n4x don't give a fuck
15:58 sapier ah
15:58 sapier well if I didn't need something consistent for android I wouldn't care too
15:59 sapier but the old way doesn't work and I can't fix it without cleaning it up
15:59 sapier the current way is the most compatible variant to old one we can get
15:59 sapier unless we do two different variants
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16:02 Zeno` which is what I suggested before
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16:03 sapier well I didn't get an anwer till when you expect you redesign to be complete ... not even a rough guess
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16:04 sapier and you didn't answer about my suggestion about the versioning either
16:06 sfan5 >just made a new windows build
16:06 sfan5 >kahrl pushes a new commit
16:06 sapier windows doesn't have auto dpi detection
16:06 sapier so there's another different situation
16:07 kahrl sfan5, while you're busy, can you also setup weblate? :D
16:07 sapier https://gist.github.com/sa​pier/d7561b4c0e3822053bbf Zeno`this should make fontsizes consistent
16:07 ErronousNickname I'm reworking the GUIFormSpecMenu::OnEvent function. I removed the m_rmouse_auto_place for RMB dragging so it always works and implemented the MBR 10 items dragging as proposed. I'd make a bigger change to the function to make it more consistent and implement LMB dragging to split up the whole stack. Does that sound good?
16:07 sfan5 kahrl: uh.. maybe
16:07 kahrl sfan5: jk
16:08 sfan5 >another commit
16:08 sfan5 i think i'll be building a new build in the afternoon
16:08 sapier ErronousNickname: do you have a andorid device to verify these changes don't break it?
16:08 Zeno` sfan5, it does nothing
16:09 Zeno` well, nothing that will affect anything anyway
16:09 ErronousNickname No, that's a problem. Would an Android emulator (like the one from the SDK) work?
16:10 sapier I think so
16:10 sapier wait
16:10 kahrl ErronousNickname: sounds good
16:10 sapier emulators don't have multitouch support so you couldn't even test it
16:10 kahrl ErronousNickname: make sure that dragging onto a different, non-empty stack doesn't cause it to swap
16:11 kahrl (that was an annoying bug in the first version of that feature)
16:11 sapier Zeno`: well with my patch we've a different issue
16:11 sapier hud and gui scale independent
16:11 ErronousNickname Non-empty stack of the sae type?
16:11 kahrl different type
16:11 sapier some fonts are part of hud others of gui
16:12 Zeno` ErronousNickname, that whole function needs refactoring (IMO)
16:13 sapier Zeno`: what about following solution I decouple layout from formspec by using a separate value instead of fontsize
16:13 Zeno` and no, the m_rmouse_button_auto_place is required atm
16:14 sapier that value is set to be correct at 800x600 ... everything else may be broken
16:14 Zeno` sapier, possibly. I am tired and having trouble keeping up now :)
16:15 ErronousNickname Zeno`: Why? It appears to work fine. Right click always places one (or adds one), dragging does the same for any tile I drag over
16:16 Zeno` ErronousNickname, without it there are terrible problems (e.g. moving "mouse" over a non-empty inventory slot will swap whatever you have in your hand with what's in that inventory slot and cause litter)
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16:17 Zeno` There needs to be some "user interaction" to enable "auto drop"
16:17 ErronousNickname I fixed that. RMB dragging over non-empty won't do anything
16:17 Zeno` I may have fixed the "litter" problem, I can't remember
16:18 Zeno` ok, make a PR then
16:18 ErronousNickname PR?
16:18 Zeno` pull request
16:19 ErronousNickname ok, soon. Haven't use github for quite some time
16:20 kahrl ErronousNickname: how do you prevent auto dropping from happening if you mousedown on an item then don't immediately release?
16:21 kahrl that may have been worded strangely, it's hard to express that
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16:22 kahrl well I'll see how it works when the PR is there
16:23 ErronousNickname RMB DOWN on a stack will replace it atm, however dragging over won't. I don't think that's much of a problem but I will keep such things in mind when rewriting the function.
16:23 kahrl I think RMB-dragging over the same kind of stack should drop one item
16:24 kahrl not sure what should happen if you RMB-drag over the same slot twice
16:25 kahrl minecraft doesn't drop anything in that case; but dropping an item again could be useful
16:26 kahrl just to be clear, by "dropping" I mean adding to the target slot, not dropping an item entity
16:26 kahrl (so much confusing language!)
16:27 Zeno` happy new year!
16:28 ErronousNickname RMB draggin over the same kind does add one item, so does dragging ove the same place twice. Dragging over a different type of item won't do anything BUT Mousedown will
16:28 ErronousNickname git is sooo complicated...^^
16:28 kahrl ErronousNickname: yeah that's good
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16:48 sapier crap ... we even have formspec elements using mixed positioning
16:50 ErronousNickname kahrl: I'm really not sure about what I did but I'll just Create the pull request anyway if nobody will be mad if I messed up, ok?
16:51 kahrl sure go ahead
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17:05 rubenwardy sapier
17:05 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2093 I'm gonna merge this in a few minutes ... zephram sorry I tryed to get your work in but ppl are to lazy to adjust to something better and I'm not willing to waste any more time
17:06 rubenwardy Is this the correct way to scale by offset: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2094/​files#diff-af29bcc6c7dda4b2f32c1b2e0c0dba42R177
17:06 sapier offset?
17:06 rubenwardy in HUD
17:07 rubenwardy I don't know how the hud scaling works, so I copied from other code
17:07 sapier no for what  I remember it's displaydensity/96
17:07 sapier density
17:07 sapier and you shouldn't apply it twice of course ;-)
17:08 sapier porting::getDisplayDensity() * 96;
17:08 sapier *96 not / 96
17:08 rubenwardy Is it already applied?
17:11 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minet​est/blob/master/src/hud.cpp#L350
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17:47 sapier kilbith: please check if fonts now fullfill your whishes
17:51 sfan5 oh god
17:51 sfan5 shit
17:51 sfan5 what did you guys do to the fonts
17:51 sfan5 what the fuck
17:51 sapier ok now next one is pissed ... grrr
17:52 sapier I'll never touch any formspec again never never never ... no matter what you do there it's gonna be wrong
17:52 sfan5 well
17:53 sfan5 sapier: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/i/iO65dsaIUS8n.png
17:54 sfan5 the menu fits perfectly on the 1920x1080 screen
17:54 sapier did you ever manually change the gui_scaling factor?
17:54 sfan5 (i still think it's too big in that case, but thats personal preference)
17:54 sfan5 dunno
17:54 sfan5 possibly
17:54 sapier set it to 0.75 that's new default value
17:54 sfan5 nope
17:54 sfan5 i didn't change the gui scale
17:55 sapier is it in minetest.conf?
17:55 sfan5 obviously not
17:55 sfan5 it seems to default to 1.0
17:55 sapier windows or linux?
17:55 sfan5 linux
17:55 sfan5 0.75 is too small
17:55 sfan5 for all tabs to appear
17:55 sapier ohh update your minetest clone it's supposed to default to 0.75
17:55 sfan5 can we please just have the old thing
17:55 sapier that's what 0.75 does
17:56 sfan5 "sapier authored an hour ago"
17:56 sfan5 that explains it
17:56 sapier thought I fixed it yesterday
17:56 sfan5 does it look how it looked before 0.4.10 at HEAD?
17:56 sapier close
17:57 Joooo kahrl: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2092 in case you didn't notice. Is this the kind of PR you meant?
17:58 sapier and going back to pre 0.4.10 implies droping android support ... which just ain't possible without clening up the scaling mess in formspec
17:58 sfan5 what do you mean by "going back"?
17:58 sfan5 sapier: it's too small
17:58 sapier the only way to go back is removing fontengine and everything depending on it
17:58 sfan5 way too small
17:59 sfan5 this sucks
17:59 sapier true ... one tells to small the other one to big
17:59 sfan5 it even scaled the minimal icon to such an extent that the lines aren't visible
17:59 sapier please make a screenshot and show me
18:02 sfan5 sapier: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/RI_7iTtbMX-Y.png
18:02 sapier what scaling factor is set now?
18:02 sfan5 default
18:02 sfan5 (no value set in mt.conf)
18:03 sapier can you do a xdpyinfo | grep resolution and tell me what dpi you have?
18:04 sfan5 96x96 dpi
18:06 sapier ah I see ... removing the font automatic requires removing the gui scaling adjustment too
18:08 sapier please try again
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18:10 sfan5 too big
18:10 sapier rubenwardy: sorry mixed up X and Y .... are you sure you wanna do the fighting?
18:10 sfan5 sapier: my opinion: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png
18:11 sapier Well Zeno didn't want different formspecs to behave different so I disabled the fixed size for mainmenu
18:12 kilbith sapier: compiling but seeing all that shit i think that revert to the 0.4.11 state would be better the best solution and don't care of Android, this isnt playable.
18:12 kilbith 0.4.11-stable state
18:12 sapier 0.4.11 is crap
18:12 sapier it's just having all that font code in but throws away the result and uses something different
18:13 sfan5 sapier: here's what i mean by too big https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png
18:13 sapier sfan do you have freetype?
18:14 sfan5 wtf
18:14 sfan5 ofc i have freetype
18:14 sapier because this doesn't even look similar to what I see
18:14 sfan5 can't you somehow set the gui scale so that the mainmenu looks like it looked in 0.4.9
18:14 rubenwardy It is a bug that needs to be fixed. My PR works at my gui_scaling and DPI.
18:15 sfan5 Minetest 0.4.11-85-g30334b6
18:15 sfan5 Using Irrlicht 1.8.1
18:15 sfan5 Build info: VER=0.4.11-85-g30334b6 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=1 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=1 USE_CURL=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 USE_LUAJIT=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR=.
18:15 Krock was there any image_button releated change? http://i.imgur.com/zh4NhV5.png
18:15 Krock *related
18:15 rubenwardy I just need to know what to times offset.X and offset.Y by
18:15 sapier Krock no
18:15 Krock in-game, those buttons work fine
18:16 Krock strange, this only happens in mainmenu
18:16 sfan5 Krock: what?
18:16 sapier sfan5 your fonts look why more fat then mine
18:16 Krock sfan5, the not-drawing images
18:16 sapier kilbith: would like to have your's ;-)
18:16 kilbith a moment
18:17 sfan5 Krock: does that subgame have an image
18:17 Krock sfan5, all subgames except of redcrab has an image
18:17 sapier how are we supposed to fix this if it looks different for everyone?
18:17 sfan5 Krock: oh, you mean that dunno
18:17 sfan5 sapier: git reset 0.4.9 --hard && git push -f
18:17 sfan5 (jk)
18:18 sfan5 but seriously
18:18 sfan5 just revert the mainmenu to how it looked in 0.4.9
18:18 sfan5 nobody complained
18:18 sfan5 at that time
18:18 sapier if I do this we never can have a android build
18:18 sfan5 then scale the mainmenu for android or whatever
18:19 sfan5 all of this font/android stuff has just been making the looks of formspecs/the mainmenu inconsistent and ugly for everyone
18:19 sapier I can't because it's not scaling but positioning what causes issues ... I'm telling this 200th time now
18:19 sfan5 k
18:19 sapier it's not android it's gonna be relevant for 4k screens too
18:19 sapier 0.4.9 formspec did work at exactly 96 dpi and 800x600
18:19 sfan5 0.4.11 is broken at exactly 96 dpi and 800x600
18:19 sapier for any other resolution and dpi level the result was actually undefined
18:19 sfan5 -dev
18:20 sfan5 for any other resolution and dpi level the result might be better or worse depending on who last touched the font code
18:20 sapier well if you consider a slightly increased menu you could even fix yourself broken then it may be broken
18:20 sfan5 </current situation>
18:20 sfan5 "slightly increased menu"
18:20 sfan5 wat
18:20 sfan5 <sapier> sfan5 your fonts look way more fat then mine
18:21 sfan5 how is that slightly
18:21 sapier but I'm annoyed I'm gonna spend those 5h and revert back to 0.4.9 menu including all it's bugs ... don't anyone ever even ask me about formspec or android I'll just ignore any further request
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18:21 sfan5 gg
18:22 sfan5 guess we won't get a non-ugly mainmenu for 0.4.12
18:22 sfan5 time to switch to terminal interfaces
18:24 kilbith if sapier don't revert his shit, Zeno will do. it's as simple as that.
18:24 rubenwardy Or fix it
18:25 sfan5 so
18:25 sfan5 rubenwardy: link to your pull?
18:25 rubenwardy #2094
18:25 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2094
18:25 Krock ShadowBot!
18:25 rubenwardy ShadowBot ignores me
18:25 rubenwardy So does ShadowNinja
18:25 rubenwardy It seams
18:25 rubenwardy seems
18:25 sfan5 aw
18:26 sfan5 that pull doesn't fix the mainmenu
18:26 rubenwardy :(
18:26 sfan5 i wonder how every other program manages to work with fonts
18:27 Krock I'm not sure if https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2095 is the best soulation but it's one
18:27 sfan5 when it seems so hard to do correctly
18:27 rubenwardy Krock, does that work on all platforms?
18:28 Krock rubenwardy, it replaces double-backslash with '/' and it works on windows - so I guess it also works with linux
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18:33 ezraanderson https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=10924 <-- I though stan5 & sapier were in cahrge of the android version, correct?
18:34 rubenwardy They were the main developers
18:34 rubenwardy But nobody is really in charge.
18:34 rubenwardy afaik
18:35 rubenwardy What is broken about the main menu? Is it the fonts being too small?
18:35 Calinou scaling works strangely
18:37 kilbith welcome to the hate club
18:38 sfan5 ezraanderson: i only did an inital attempt at android, sapier is the android dev
18:38 sfan5 rubenwardy: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png
18:42 ezraanderson is that an 800x600 window?
18:43 Krock sfan5, checkboxes suck
18:43 Krock (old checkboxes)
18:47 sfan5 Krock: the ones with white bg?
18:47 sfan5 ezraanderson: yes
18:47 Krock sfan5, yes, these are ugly IMO
18:48 Calinou white bg is preferable, it's more visible
18:48 rubenwardy A minimalistic menu would be better, one meant for a game. https://jarime.files.wordpre​ss.com/2011/12/terraria6.png
18:49 rubenwardy My Minetest mainmenu draws like this: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/0/0oWP6rTHPJOd.png
18:49 sfan5 rubenwardy: no freetype?
18:49 kilbith yep, no freetype
18:49 sfan5 Calinou: i think that white bg was because of using old irrlicht versions
18:50 rubenwardy no. Should I use freetype?
18:50 sfan5 yes
18:50 sfan5 and no
18:50 sfan5 right now using freetype makes the menu look like https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png
18:50 rubenwardy lol
18:50 sfan5 (as of current HEAD)
18:51 rubenwardy Is sapier, or someone, working on fixing it? Or will it be reverted?
18:51 sfan5 <sapier> but I'm annoyed I'm gonna spend those 5h and revert back to 0.4.9 menu including all it's bugs ... don't anyone ever even ask me about formspec or android I'll just ignore any further request
18:51 sfan5 * sapier (~sapier@p5B02FE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left
18:51 rubenwardy Lol.
18:51 sfan5 i guess that means sapier doesn't want to fix it
18:54 kilbith so it's clear enough, sfan5 has free hand to revert
18:54 sfan5 the problem is that i don't know what to revent to make it non-ugly
18:55 ezraanderson I can't tell if this is sarcasm, joking, or friction among you all
18:56 rubenwardy friction
18:56 rubenwardy probably
18:57 rubenwardy BTW, http://rubenwardy.github.io​/minetest_doc/lua_api.html
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18:58 ezraanderson wow, nice :)
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19:30 ShadowNinja I think font scaling can be fixed simply.  Just use font_size in points so that it displays with the same physical size everywhere!  This will break formspecs only with very big fonts (and that can't be solved without rewriting formspecs from scratch).
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20:44 celeron55 if sapier reverts all those things, then we can just discard the android port too
20:44 celeron55 know what you're getting into, people
20:50 celeron55 i think every solution so far sucks
20:51 sfan5 I'm not talking to reverting all those font things
20:51 sfan5 but making the menu look like it looked under 0.4.9 at 96dpi 800x600 (standard stuff)
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20:53 celeron55 well i full agree with that too
20:53 sfan5 right now scaling or something else is just brokne
20:53 sfan5 broken*
20:53 sfan5 see the screenshots i posted
20:54 ShadowNinja The gui scaling is good, but tying the font size into how other things are scaled is madness.
20:54 celeron55 also it looks like freetype and non-freetype fonts have a size difference
20:54 sfan5 https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png (these)
20:54 ShadowNinja celeron55: I think non-freetype just choses the colsest bitmap font.
20:54 celeron55 this just needs patience from everyone; you can't just go and rant at sapier for all day and expect him to not explode and quit
20:55 sfan5 ShadowNinja: the screenshot rubenwardy posted looks like irrlichts bitmap font
20:55 celeron55 unless you expect him to do that and then proceed to replace his effort
20:56 celeron55 irrlicht's font is smaller i think
20:56 Krock please not irrlicht's default font..
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21:55 sfan5 argh
21:55 sfan5 ShadowNinja: why are you adding low priority labels
21:55 sfan5 everything that is not either of the other priorities is automatically low priority
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22:03 sfan5 38.107.244.xxx - - [09/Jan/2015:22:03:00 +0000] "POST /announce HTTP/1.1" 202 61 "-" "Minetest/0.4.dev-20120122-1-2338-ga86a633-dirty (Linux/3.2.0-4-amd64 x86_64)" "-"
22:03 sfan5 looks like someone also has the bug with git i had a few years ago
22:04 sfan5 (look at the version, it's using a very old tag which is >2000 commits behind)
22:04 n4x what bug
22:04 sfan5 or maybe it's not git
22:04 sfan5 or something else
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22:08 ShadowNinja sfan5: Looks like they have to git pull --tags.
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22:38 ezraanderson https://play.google.com/store/a​pps/details?id=me.c55.wandstep <-- celeron55, what did you write this game in?
22:39 celeron55 html5 with a bunch of crap i have written during the past 18 months
22:40 celeron55 namely https://github.com/8dromeda/h1edpi
22:40 ezraanderson so android version is wrapped in htm5?
22:40 celeron55 yes, with a number of details polished for that specific purpose
22:41 ezraanderson whats your development system? linux,win,osx?
22:42 acerspyro Maybe he's on BSD :P
22:43 celeron55 you don't need to look very far to find an answer to that but linux
22:43 acerspyro ^
22:43 acerspyro I figured that the head dev of an open-source ALTERNATIVE project to something closed-source would be on a free platform.
22:45 ezraanderson I assumed so, but he might be a Vbox fan, for all I know
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22:46 acerspyro lol, to me, using vbox is the equivalent of holding the OS by the tip of the fingers like it's a rotting piece of dog shit.
22:46 celeron55 well that's what i use vbox for
22:46 acerspyro To run Windows in it.
22:46 acerspyro Windows merited that.
22:46 acerspyro :P
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