| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
sapier |
but still if someone sees a way how to fix or even only improve it which I don't see, tell me! |
| 00:38 |
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| 01:24 |
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| 02:38 |
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| 03:00 |
ezraanderson |
so stupid question, you enter CMD through the chat console, correct? |
| 03:11 |
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| 03:40 |
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| 03:44 |
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| 03:44 |
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| 04:55 |
VanessaE |
sapier: (for the logs) I don't have a preference for font *face*. I only care that, on PC, fonts are consistently sized across formspecs, chat, etc. like they would be were this, say, a GTK or QT application using the desktop's own font settings. Making formspec elements scale by window size is questionable on PC, but making fonts scale by window size is stupid. |
| 05:05 |
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| 05:36 |
hmmmm |
agh i wish sapier were around right now |
| 05:43 |
Zeno` |
So do I. I suppose I could fix this formspec line input issue myself :( |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
haha you can't fix anything related to formspec without sapier ... just try |
| 05:45 |
Zeno` |
well that's why I've been avoiding it (that and I don't really want to do it myself heh) |
| 05:53 |
Zeno` |
I remember this same discussion I had with RBA about 3 months ago |
| 05:53 |
Zeno` |
oops, wrong channel |
| 05:53 |
Zeno` |
but that's directed at hmmmm |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
i dunno \(O_o)/ |
| 05:54 |
Zeno` |
I'll look through the logs and if needed change that patch, comment it or document it (whichever is more appropriate) |
| 06:37 |
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| 11:16 |
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| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
where is sapier? |
| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
formspecs are broken |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
just reading the logs |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
sapier: the font (typeface) has *nothing* to do with what's broken |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
I can type in a formspec (e.g. the "chat" one) and what I type is hidden |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
the line edit control does not scroll properly to the left so half of what I type is not visible |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
buttons overlap |
| 11:36 |
Zeno` |
nothing fits |
| 11:36 |
Zeno` |
it's broken |
| 11:36 |
Zeno` |
the size of the font is NOT dependant on the size of a formspec and should not be scaled as such :/ |
| 11:37 |
kilbith |
also, 0.75 scaling makes the inventory too small : https://lut.im/pVo9OrUA/OuXUp6vI |
| 11:37 |
Zeno` |
0.75 scaling does not fix the broken stuff |
| 11:37 |
Zeno` |
e.g. open the "chat box" (I dunno what it's really called) |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
type in a long sentence. When you get to the end of the "text input widget" it doesn't scroll. So you can't even see what you're typing |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
Pause menu is broken (text flows outside the buttons) |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
Inventory is broken (too small) |
| 11:39 |
Zeno` |
Custom formspecs are broken, overlapping text, stuff not fitting inside buttons or lists etc etc etc |
| 11:39 |
Zeno` |
Why would (should) the font change scale because of the size of the dialog (formspec)? |
| 11:39 |
Zeno` |
That makes no sense at all |
| 11:40 |
kilbith |
then he will says that's subjective and not precised enough for fixing |
| 11:40 |
Zeno` |
If I say I want font size 12 then I want font size 12 |
| 11:40 |
Zeno` |
and that font size must be the same in every formspec |
| 11:40 |
Zeno` |
otherwise it's chaos |
| 11:40 |
Zeno` |
it's not subjective at all |
| 11:41 |
Zeno` |
if a formspec does not work, it does not work |
| 11:41 |
Zeno` |
end of story |
| 11:41 |
Zeno` |
so this crap needs to be fixed or reverted :/ |
| 11:41 |
kilbith |
+1 |
| 11:46 |
Zeno` |
has anyone even looked at these changes? |
| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
They're terrible |
| 11:49 |
Amaz |
They are dreadful. |
| 11:51 |
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| 11:53 |
Zeno` |
It's (the client is) basically unusable |
| 12:00 |
Amaz |
^ |
| 12:15 |
celeron55 |
lol, apparently the apk i made has my complete mods directory in it too |
| 12:15 |
celeron55 |
or, that's what people are saying |
| 12:16 |
celeron55 |
yeah, looks like it |
| 12:19 |
celeron55 |
holy fuck these feedback replies are long |
| 12:19 |
celeron55 |
what i asked was a list of blocking issues, not a full review of the god damn game lol 8D |
| 12:30 |
sfan5 |
you won't get either of that from google play reviews |
| 12:38 |
Wayward_One |
Zeno`, I completely agree |
| 12:38 |
celeron55 |
i can't really make much out of this, it seems that there are just infinite small details that should be fixed, and there isn't any way of prioritizing them |
| 12:43 |
Zeno` |
Wayward_One, well sapier must fix it or revert it :( |
| 12:44 |
Amaz |
How long will that take? |
| 12:44 |
Zeno` |
To fix or revert? |
| 12:44 |
Amaz |
Either. |
| 12:45 |
Zeno` |
To fix... I dunno; I haven't really looked closely |
| 12:45 |
Zeno` |
to revert (for non-android) about 30 seconds |
| 12:45 |
Amaz |
Right. But sapier has to do it? |
| 12:45 |
Zeno` |
He doesn't have to, but it would be preferable |
| 12:45 |
Amaz |
Yeah. |
| 12:46 |
Amaz |
That's what I though. |
| 12:46 |
Zeno` |
If it's still the same in 36 hours I guess I'll disable it for non-android |
| 12:47 |
Zeno` |
because it's clearly broken and I don't want to spend the time making things work when I don't even know what he's trying to achieve (because it makes no sense to me) |
| 12:48 |
Zeno` |
In the meantime I guess we're stuck with mostly not working formspecs |
| 12:49 |
Zeno` |
I can't even chat with other players unless I use the console because the "chat dialog" doesn't work. I can't see what I'm typing if I type more than about 8 words hehe |
| 12:49 |
gregorycu |
lol @ formspec worries |
| 12:50 |
Zeno` |
gregorycu, it's not a small issue when they're not usable :P |
| 12:50 |
Zeno` |
join a server. press / to open the "chat dialog". Type a long sentence |
| 12:51 |
gregorycu |
I don't have main |
| 12:51 |
Amaz |
Why not t? |
| 12:51 |
Zeno` |
or t |
| 12:51 |
gregorycu |
There is no low-hanging fruit in Map::spreadLight in terms of optimisation, as far as I can see |
| 12:52 |
Zeno` |
gregorycu, it all got eaten :( |
| 12:52 |
gregorycu |
Do you seriously have problems with fluids with 4 players exploring? |
| 12:52 |
Zeno` |
so, yeah. press t, type a long sentence |
| 12:52 |
Zeno` |
gregorycu, it's not only me. It's most servers |
| 12:52 |
Zeno` |
(if not all) |
| 12:53 |
Zeno` |
I actually only became aware of it because of reports from other server operators |
| 12:53 |
gregorycu |
I have, it seems to work properly |
| 12:53 |
gregorycu |
Again, I don't have main |
| 12:53 |
gregorycu |
Or trunk |
| 12:53 |
Zeno` |
main? as in head? |
| 12:54 |
gregorycu |
Whatever git calls it |
| 12:54 |
Zeno` |
oh yeah, it worked until a day or so ago |
| 12:54 |
gregorycu |
Yes |
| 12:55 |
Zeno` |
pfft you need to get more gitified :P |
| 12:56 |
Zeno` |
we will have to wean you off that terrible MSVC source control system |
| 12:56 |
Zeno` |
heheh |
| 12:56 |
gregorycu |
Alright, I'm going to get all this sorted for a PR |
| 12:56 |
Zeno` |
:-o |
| 12:57 |
celeron55 |
this formspec thing is probably a mistake that sapier will fix once he pops up in here next time |
| 12:58 |
Zeno` |
yep, I hope so celeron55. I'm just going by the logs where it seemed there was no acknowledgement of the issue at all |
| 12:58 |
Zeno` |
hopefully sapier is here soon |
| 12:59 |
celeron55 |
the dpi stuff is quite chaotic though, not sure how it should be handled; i'm hoping enough iteration will sort it out |
| 13:03 |
Zeno` |
I just don't understand why font size should be modified based upon the dimensions of the current formspec |
| 13:03 |
Zeno` |
No GUI does (or ever has done) that |
| 13:04 |
Zeno` |
Fair enough setting/scaling the font at the start (setup stage) but after that 12pt should be ... 12 pt |
| 13:05 |
Zeno` |
and not change depending on what the formspec is |
| 13:06 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, regarding your forum post... |
| 13:07 |
Zeno` |
Isn't sapier the android maintainer? |
| 13:07 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: I wouldn't say no GUI does that... see http://phlak.github.io/jColorClock/ |
| 13:08 |
Zeno` |
kahrl, fine :p |
| 13:08 |
kahrl |
but it's definitely a strange thing to do :P |
| 13:08 |
Zeno` |
pity it doesn't fit in my browser window lol |
| 13:09 |
Zeno` |
but now it does |
| 13:09 |
Zeno` |
BUG! |
| 13:10 |
Zeno` |
gosh I cannot see after looking at that link |
| 13:10 |
Zeno` |
I am blinded |
| 13:10 |
Zeno` |
Anyway, related the Android. KodexKy does seem to have his head screwed on right |
| 13:11 |
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| 13:12 |
Zeno` |
sapier, I have bad news |
| 13:12 |
Zeno` |
formspecs and font scaling are broken :( |
| 13:13 |
sapier |
no they aren't they're correct for the first time in minetests history |
| 13:13 |
Zeno` |
no, they're broken |
| 13:13 |
Amaz |
^ |
| 13:13 |
Zeno` |
<Zeno`> so, yeah. press t, type a long sentence |
| 13:13 |
sapier |
what exactly do you believe to justify calling them to be broken |
| 13:13 |
Zeno` |
I can't even see what I'm typing after about 8 words |
| 13:13 |
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| 13:14 |
Zeno` |
also, the size of the font changes with the formspec dimensions |
| 13:14 |
sapier |
first one is a bug |
| 13:14 |
Zeno` |
overlapping text, controls, etc, etc, etc |
| 13:14 |
sapier |
last one is intended behaviour |
| 13:14 |
Zeno` |
how can that be intended? |
| 13:14 |
sapier |
overlapping text should only happen if that formspec was broken at 800x600 before |
| 13:15 |
kahrl |
sapier, look at the logs |
| 13:15 |
Zeno` |
well I can assure you that formspecs that worked before are now broken |
| 13:15 |
sapier |
well see by now most of the formspec elements did scale according to window size |
| 13:15 |
kahrl |
it seems noone "intends" the font to scale with the GUI |
| 13:15 |
Zeno` |
and not custom formspecs either |
| 13:15 |
Zeno` |
builtin formspecs |
| 13:15 |
kahrl |
(except you) |
| 13:15 |
sapier |
ok guys if you insist on this beeing broken the only thing I can do is revert all the font fixes and fork a fixed minetest version |
| 13:16 |
sapier |
because I'm not gonna continue to work on this if you insist on half of formspec elements scaling to window half to something else and this particular element for everyone different |
| 13:16 |
sapier |
that'd just be ridiculous |
| 13:17 |
sapier |
we fixed formspec scaling yes, this causes some formspecs to break yes |
| 13:18 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: sapier has so much other things to do than android that it would really help if someone would focus on that |
| 13:18 |
sapier |
still we NOW have formspecs who's layout looks same no matter if screen is 800x600 or 1920x1280 |
| 13:18 |
celeron55 |
i think sapier himself probably agrees too 8) |
| 13:18 |
sapier |
android ain't even involved here celeron55 the font scaling fixes broke it initially too |
| 13:19 |
celeron55 |
yes i know that this is not android specific, it just makes my point even stronger :P |
| 13:19 |
sapier |
that fix is basicaly a formspec cleanup and I knew it'd cause discussions ... what I didn new is even VanessaE who actually triggered this way of fixing it would complain |
| 13:20 |
celeron55 |
it looked to me at some point that maybe the font-ui size ratio is just wrong? |
| 13:20 |
Zeno` |
Why wouldn't people complain? It breaks stuff. It makes this inconsistent. A 12pt font (scaled to 7.5 or whatever at the start) should be the same for all formspecs |
| 13:20 |
celeron55 |
but i don't even know anymore |
| 13:21 |
sapier |
that's what I tried to ask for a couple of hours yesterday ;-) If it's only font ui ratio we can fix it |
| 13:21 |
sapier |
BUT |
| 13:21 |
sapier |
if someone did assume a fixed font and designed his formspecs this way those will still be broken as with consistent layouts the font increases |
| 13:21 |
Zeno` |
It is *only* the size. The size, which can be scaled as part of setup, must remain the same though |
| 13:21 |
Zeno` |
no matter the size of the formspec |
| 13:21 |
sapier |
yet ... we could solve this by providing a font size property to formspecs |
| 13:22 |
sapier |
no zeno because if we assume a pixel fixed font size we cannot provide any autoadjustment to different dpi of screen |
| 13:22 |
Zeno` |
yes you can |
| 13:23 |
sapier |
no you can't |
| 13:23 |
Zeno` |
you adjust the font size at the start |
| 13:23 |
Zeno` |
the screen DPI does not change because the size of the formspec changes |
| 13:23 |
sapier |
still It's crazy to scale half of formspec to window size but not fonts |
| 13:24 |
sapier |
I'm quite sure this is what you guys makes call it broken |
| 13:24 |
Zeno` |
font size must be fixed (after scaling). |
| 13:24 |
sapier |
then formspec size has to be fixed too |
| 13:24 |
Zeno` |
well, no.. formspec size should be the thing that changes and not the font scaling |
| 13:25 |
sapier |
NO godamn |
| 13:25 |
sapier |
we have formspec positioning set based uppon formspec size |
| 13:25 |
Zeno` |
i.e. a) at setup scale the font size to match the screen DPI |
| 13:25 |
sapier |
how are you expected to ever do a fixed layout if you don't even know where your elements are placed |
| 13:25 |
Zeno` |
wth does formspec size have to do with screen DPI? |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
formspec size is related to window size |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
same are all positions of formspec elements |
| 13:26 |
Zeno` |
yes, and why should fonts change because of that? DPI is constant |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
except those where font height is used to adjust this position |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
which is crazy true |
| 13:26 |
kahrl |
I guess this battle can't be won (by either side) unless a reasonable layout engine is added to formspecs :/ |
| 13:27 |
sapier |
but it's been implemented this way |
| 13:27 |
Zeno` |
sapier, but it does not work |
| 13:27 |
sapier |
we have elements whery y position is "y*dpi*gui-scaling + FONT HEIGHT" |
| 13:27 |
Zeno` |
If it worked would people be complaining? |
| 13:27 |
sapier |
it did not work |
| 13:27 |
sapier |
it works for 96 dpi screens only |
| 13:27 |
Zeno` |
great |
| 13:28 |
sapier |
once you have anything significant different it's broken |
| 13:28 |
Zeno` |
and what about those with 72 or 101 dpi screens? |
| 13:28 |
sapier |
significant ! |
| 13:28 |
sapier |
150 for example |
| 13:29 |
Zeno` |
ok.. why is a "12pt" font a different size in different dialogs(forms)? |
| 13:29 |
sapier |
because pause menu as well as main menu use fixed size formspecs |
| 13:29 |
sapier |
chat might use fixed size too |
| 13:29 |
Zeno` |
If I change the size of the Window I am chatting in right now the font does not change size |
| 13:30 |
sapier |
as I said our built in formspecs use fixed size formspecs |
| 13:30 |
sapier |
they're not gonna scale to window size too |
| 13:30 |
Zeno` |
so it's going to be left unusable? |
| 13:31 |
sapier |
we're still looking for a way to improve it |
| 13:31 |
sapier |
talking about fixed size what about making all formspecs fixed size by default? |
| 13:31 |
kahrl |
who is we? |
| 13:32 |
sapier |
at least I am still looking for solutions not beeing "just remove the font scaling" |
| 13:32 |
Zeno` |
font scaling is fine. Just don't change it based on a formspec size |
| 13:32 |
Zeno` |
fix formspecs if that's the issue :( |
| 13:33 |
sapier |
godamn Zeno` what's so hard on understand that formspec positioning is related to font size |
| 13:33 |
Zeno` |
sapier, nothing |
| 13:33 |
sapier |
if you don't scale the font size according to the formspec size the layout is broken |
| 13:33 |
Zeno` |
but it's broken now |
| 13:33 |
Zeno` |
and it worked before |
| 13:33 |
Zeno` |
so something has to be done |
| 13:34 |
sapier |
ok I'm reverting all the font fixes I'm sick of it it's useless to keep all this code it it's effectivly unused |
| 13:34 |
kahrl |
well... if you absolutely want to keep compatibility, you can compute an "internal" font size (= the current scaled font size) which is only used for positioning formspec elements |
| 13:35 |
kahrl |
but don't use this internal "font size" as the actual font size |
| 13:35 |
Zeno` |
that might work |
| 13:35 |
sapier |
no kahrl formspec positioning is already silly and broken enough I'm not gonna make it even worse. I had a fix where positioning was unchained from font size but as this would've required fixing formspecs at 800x600 VanessaE demanded zefram fyshs version of fixing it |
| 13:37 |
sapier |
If I add additional hacks you'll be even less able to use the positions. it's trial and error now because the numbers don't really reflect the positions |
| 13:37 |
Zeno` |
can the "fixing" be automated? |
| 13:37 |
sapier |
no it can't |
| 13:37 |
kahrl |
so use the clean positioning only if formspec version >= X |
| 13:37 |
sapier |
because we don't know how the formspec was expected to look like |
| 13:37 |
kahrl |
and remove the compatiblity shims for old formspec versions in a year or so |
| 13:38 |
sapier |
then we're gonna have this discussion in about a year again |
| 13:38 |
sapier |
I see three options |
| 13:38 |
kahrl |
yeah but much fewer formspecs that will be broken by the change |
| 13:38 |
sapier |
1) revert this in total |
| 13:39 |
sapier |
noone is gonna change the formspecs |
| 13:39 |
sapier |
because formspec itself doesn't have a version |
| 13:39 |
sapier |
server sends what formspec version level he uses but not each individual formspec |
| 13:40 |
sapier |
and in between we had dual code because mixing this up is unmaintainable |
| 13:40 |
kahrl |
ah I forgot about that :/ |
| 13:41 |
sapier |
2) switch to clean positioning ... fight all the attacks and have it fixed once and for all |
| 13:41 |
sapier |
3) adjust the current fix ... a little bit less fighting but don't have consistent positioning |
| 13:42 |
sapier |
well if I did knew how much fighting even 3 was I'd have taken 2 at the beginning |
| 13:42 |
sapier |
At least I now understand what problem we have |
| 13:43 |
sapier |
Zeno can you show me an example where texts overlapp? I'd wanna know if it's a bug or really a design issue |
| 13:43 |
sapier |
kahrl: we could allow users to specify the version manually |
| 13:44 |
sapier |
formspec version so your suggestion would be possible |
| 13:44 |
kahrl |
yeah that's how I thought it worked |
| 13:44 |
sapier |
if we really wanna keep two versions of guiFormspecMenu.cpp |
| 13:45 |
kahrl |
it seems strange to me anyway that this is hardcoded in the engine |
| 13:45 |
sapier |
but if we do it this way I insist on making the old one read only... no additions, no fixes |
| 13:45 |
kahrl |
there are pretty much no formspecs supplied by the engine (except on the client side, and there it doesn't matter) |
| 13:45 |
kahrl |
sapier: yeah, fine by me |
| 13:46 |
sapier |
well we use it to switch to compatibility mode if new clients connect to old servers which usually have old mods |
| 13:46 |
sapier |
but we'd have to tell modders they have to set the correct formspec version thus we need to add this information to each and any formspec descritption |
| 13:47 |
sapier |
quite a lot of work for a temporary feature ;-) |
| 13:47 |
kahrl |
well I guess it'll be useful for other things too |
| 13:47 |
sapier |
for example? |
| 13:48 |
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| 13:48 |
kahrl |
changing the meaning of some formspec element attributes or whatever |
| 13:48 |
kahrl |
idk |
| 13:49 |
sapier |
I'd not even try to do this knowing what discussions this would cause |
| 13:49 |
gregorycu |
Is this a good time to talk about json based formspecs? |
| 13:49 |
sapier |
NO |
| 13:49 |
gregorycu |
lol |
| 13:49 |
kahrl |
gregorycu: there's never a good time for that :P |
| 13:49 |
sapier |
unless you wanna be muted forever |
| 13:49 |
gregorycu |
I know, but this seemed like an especially bad time |
| 13:49 |
Zeno` |
sapier, I was mistaken. All the default formspecs seems fine (apart from the font size changing) |
| 13:49 |
gregorycu |
Actually, maybe this is a good time |
| 13:50 |
gregorycu |
I'm not being funny |
| 13:50 |
Zeno` |
so do formspecs use normalised device coordinates? |
| 13:50 |
gregorycu |
old formspec = legacy support, json formspec = new positioning |
| 13:50 |
sapier |
Zeno`: partial |
| 13:51 |
sapier |
base is normalized to window size but some of them (not using any scheme) apply font height offset |
| 13:52 |
gregorycu |
What I'm trying to say, "clean positioning with json, old positioning with formspec" |
| 13:52 |
sapier |
gregorycu: json formspecs would be same crap as current, it'd be a non standard gui description language. why do same mistake twice? |
| 13:53 |
gregorycu |
Is there a standard gui description language? |
| 13:53 |
gregorycu |
lol, html? |
| 13:53 |
sapier |
there are quite some existing languages |
| 13:53 |
Zeno` |
there are a lot of "standards" as well |
| 13:53 |
sapier |
well html is one of them you believe it to be too complex for us? look at how formspec grew |
| 13:54 |
Zeno` |
just looking at the code, sorry I've gone relatively quiet |
| 13:54 |
sapier |
Zeno`: formspec code is ugly and you always ask WHY on reading it but that's historical ;) |
| 13:55 |
gregorycu |
I noticed an issue about this |
| 13:55 |
gregorycu |
Which is why I bring it up |
| 13:55 |
sapier |
the issue please |
| 13:55 |
Zeno` |
If it was me I'd redesign formspec entirely and have some kind of conversion to the new spec for older clients (even if the older clients look terrible) |
| 13:56 |
sapier |
celeron55: just pushed the gui/hud scaling split |
| 13:56 |
sapier |
hopefully ppl can now adjust main menu size on android to match their feel without breaking the controls |
| 13:56 |
Zeno` |
It's not an easy thing; I just don't think the current state is good at all |
| 13:57 |
sapier |
Zeno`: you're free to redesign it |
| 13:57 |
sapier |
just don't write same crap in different format |
| 13:57 |
gregorycu |
bb in 5 |
| 13:57 |
Zeno` |
well I would but I'd rather see the current issues "fixed" somehow first |
| 13:58 |
sapier |
well there's no fix not breaking other things |
| 13:58 |
Zeno` |
I would not make the same mistake; I've written GUI specs more than once |
| 13:58 |
sapier |
best "fix" I can suggest is progressing even further and add font size support |
| 13:58 |
sapier |
so everyone can say "this font -3" size compared to exected size |
| 13:59 |
sapier |
as I said formspec is prone to redesign but if this is done it's supposed to be done right this time |
| 13:59 |
sapier |
meaning it has to contain all those things written in our formspec redesign issue discussion |
| 14:00 |
Zeno` |
but what to do in the meantime? |
| 14:01 |
sapier |
depends on what you expect to spend that month of full time work to get it done? |
| 14:01 |
sapier |
-what + when |
| 14:01 |
Zeno` |
I'm sorry... I agree that your changes are in the right direction but I cannot agree that they're "acceptable" |
| 14:01 |
Zeno` |
(at the moment) |
| 14:02 |
sapier |
well I'm not gonna keep that code in if all of it's result is just thrown away and fixed size is used again |
| 14:02 |
Zeno` |
Does it work "as expected" on Android? |
| 14:02 |
sapier |
but it's not your turn when do you expect to have that month of work done |
| 14:03 |
sapier |
it works same as on pc |
| 14:03 |
Zeno` |
I guess there are fewer Android players complaining |
| 14:03 |
sapier |
the only difference is on android different screen dpi's are way more common then on pc |
| 14:04 |
sapier |
so there the previous issues we had have been way more visible |
| 14:04 |
Zeno` |
well, my screen DPI is 101 but I can change that to test with 96 |
| 14:04 |
sapier |
I don't think 5 dpi difference will cause a lot of change |
| 14:04 |
sapier |
actually our gui was designed to 72 dpi ... that's why it did increase when I added support for screen dpi detection |
| 14:07 |
sapier |
what about a setting "legacy_formspec_positioning" |
| 14:08 |
Zeno` |
that might work |
| 14:08 |
sapier |
well it'd not solve any issue as noone would fix the formspecs |
| 14:08 |
Zeno` |
you said the server sends a "formspec version"? |
| 14:08 |
sapier |
yes |
| 14:09 |
sapier |
server formspec version |
| 14:09 |
kahrl |
the setting would be too much hassle if you have to check/uncheck it whenever you connect to a different server |
| 14:09 |
sapier |
true |
| 14:09 |
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| 14:09 |
sapier |
what about making formspecs fixed size by default? |
| 14:10 |
sapier |
yes they'd be different then by now but they'd be no worse then on 800x600 |
| 14:10 |
kahrl |
I don't know what the implications of that are |
| 14:10 |
sapier |
and a moder having fixed them can make it non fixed again |
| 14:10 |
Zeno` |
so although formspecs have not changed can the formspec version be bumped anyway? And if new clients use the font scaling then they will use that, otherwise fallback to old behaviour? Errr, that needs more thought actually |
| 14:10 |
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| 14:11 |
sapier |
formspec version is used to switch from exact parameter count checking to relaxed |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
if client and server do mismatch client tries to interpret the formspec even if he'd expect more parameters for it |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
or less |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
eg, someone adds a parameter to an element |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
if formspec versions are identical a different parameter count is considered as error |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
if client version is different check is only done if all parameters required for client are there |
| 14:13 |
Zeno` |
can legacy_formspec_positioning = true be added to the protocol then? |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
no |
| 14:13 |
Zeno` |
damn |
| 14:13 |
Zeno` |
it can't be a parameter? |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
it could but it wouldn't solve our main issue |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
code duplication |
| 14:14 |
sapier |
hmm |
| 14:14 |
sapier |
maybe |
| 14:14 |
Zeno` |
is code duplication so bad if it's a "transitionary" feature? |
| 14:15 |
sapier |
we could do it same as we do for version |
| 14:15 |
sapier |
first scan for this parameter then do the formspec evaluation |
| 14:15 |
sapier |
but the modders would have to add it to their formspecs |
| 14:15 |
Zeno` |
that's what I mean |
| 14:15 |
celeron55 |
what is the main issue right now? |
| 14:15 |
sapier |
fonts do scale according to formspec size |
| 14:16 |
Zeno` |
but it will give them time to update them... especially if the old format is somehow clearly communicated as deprecated |
| 14:16 |
sapier |
while modders expect them to keep same size |
| 14:16 |
celeron55 |
that is a quite vague explanation |
| 14:16 |
celeron55 |
is there a series of screenshots showcasing it in practice? |
| 14:16 |
sapier |
Zeno? |
| 14:16 |
Zeno` |
the issue is that the font size changes depending on the formspec size |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
I think there is an open issue |
| 14:17 |
celeron55 |
_why_ is it an issue |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
with screenshots |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, because formspecs that expect a fixed size font have overlapping text, controls, etc, etc |
| 14:17 |
celeron55 |
i know what the claimed issue is but i want proof that it actually an issue in some actual usage scenario |
| 14:17 |
sapier |
you mean #2077? |
| 14:17 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2077 -- Disharmonious GUI/Font scaling |
| 14:18 |
celeron55 |
why can't the font size be made small enough that most existing formspecs work reasonably? |
| 14:18 |
celeron55 |
i have asked this before, but i haven't got an answer |
| 14:18 |
Zeno` |
I'll make some screenshots then |
| 14:19 |
gregorycu |
New PR #2091 |
| 14:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2091 -- Speed up extent calculations by gregorycu |
| 14:19 |
sapier |
#2077 doesn't show any critical issue at least for me |
| 14:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2077 -- Disharmonious GUI/Font scaling |
| 14:19 |
celeron55 |
looks like i am not getting an answer this time either, come on guys |
| 14:20 |
celeron55 |
IS THE FORMSPEC SIZE VS. FONT SIZE RATIO SIMPLY WRONG? |
| 14:20 |
sapier |
I'm glad it's not only me not getting answers :-) |
| 14:21 |
celeron55 |
i'm not even mad, this is so stupid it's funny |
| 14:21 |
gregorycu |
Fixed sized font = monospeced? |
| 14:21 |
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| 14:21 |
sapier |
well ... as long as you're not involved for sure ;-) |
| 14:22 |
sapier |
I'm gonna merge #2051 in a few minutes |
| 14:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2051 -- Fix memory leaks due to messed up memory handling for particles as well ... by sapier |
| 14:23 |
Zeno` |
Ugh, I have to install more mods |
| 14:23 |
celeron55 |
i recommend reading and following this to all core developers: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10895 |
| 14:24 |
Zeno` |
here's one (unfortunately it's not too bad): http://i.imgur.com/F9baJUG.jpg |
| 14:24 |
celeron55 |
it's a game that seems to attempt to really step up the quality of things, and it's your work which is going to kill it 8) |
| 14:24 |
Zeno` |
VoXus looks amazing |
| 14:24 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: i see in that screenshot that the formspec size is too small compared to font size |
| 14:25 |
celeron55 |
assuming that fonts scale with the formspec, it means formspecs are simply too small for fonts |
| 14:25 |
celeron55 |
the solution is to change the ratio between them |
| 14:26 |
sapier |
I'm not sure about this celeron, I believe the CLear Inventory button has a fixed size |
| 14:26 |
sapier |
well maybe numbers could be a little smaller too true |
| 14:27 |
kilbith |
0.75 scaling makes the inventory too small : https://lut.im/pVo9OrUA/OuXUp6vI |
| 14:27 |
celeron55 |
this could potentially solve the inventory size too |
| 14:28 |
sapier |
so is it really font size <-> formspec size relation? |
| 14:28 |
sapier |
that'd not be a big deal to fix |
| 14:29 |
Zeno` |
I wish I could remember what server I was playing on earlier today |
| 14:29 |
kahrl |
well I just tried it, the font size in the pause menu is huge, the one in the HUD and the option menus is what I'd call normal, and the one in the inventory is tiny |
| 14:30 |
kahrl |
it just seems stupid to me to have different font sizes there |
| 14:30 |
Zeno` |
I agree with that |
| 14:30 |
Zeno` |
I'm just trying to find the form where things were unreadable |
| 14:30 |
kahrl |
I didn't find any that was unreadable to me |
| 14:31 |
sapier |
kahrl can you tell me what window size? |
| 14:31 |
sapier |
it's important ;-) |
| 14:31 |
sapier |
hmm ok I see it |
| 14:31 |
kahrl |
how can I find out (in xfce)? |
| 14:32 |
sapier |
I don't know whenn it changed but it seems to be full screen on 800x600 |
| 14:32 |
sapier |
full window of course |
| 14:32 |
sapier |
it should be same as main menu ... wonder why it ain't |
| 14:33 |
sapier |
wait ... we changed this a few weeks ago |
| 14:36 |
sapier |
wtf ... I guess we've got overlapping issue shere |
| 14:39 |
Zeno` |
http://i.imgur.com/zZQP0TA.jpg |
| 14:39 |
Zeno` |
^ that is not the worst example I've seen but the closet I can find so far |
| 14:40 |
sapier |
well this might be ecaclty what I was talking about ... some elements using font height for positioning |
| 14:41 |
sapier |
and for the upper line ... yes if the second part of the text was manually placed right behind the first and font size is changed slightly you get overlaps ... well as celeron suggested we could adjust font size to work for this example |
| 14:43 |
Zeno` |
the overlapping stuff can probably be easily fixed. What I am most opposed to is font sizes changing based on formspec size |
| 14:43 |
sapier |
but the formspec as well as half of it's elements change size too |
| 14:43 |
celeron55 |
we don't have dynamic layouting and will not have dynamic layouting; thus we should scale fonts with the UI |
| 14:44 |
celeron55 |
it's as simple as that |
| 14:44 |
Zeno` |
yes, so the formspec should expand |
| 14:44 |
Zeno` |
not the font |
| 14:44 |
sapier |
if the formspec gets bigger but not the font the layout changes |
| 14:46 |
Zeno` |
but it's not... consistent. Why does the font size change? If any other GUI in the world changed font size just because the window size changed I'd consider them (the developers) crazy |
| 14:46 |
sapier |
kahrl the big pause menu is a unwanted sideeffect of some other change I'm gonna fix it |
| 14:46 |
sapier |
Zeno`: what you suggest ain't consistent |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
sapier, open an xterm |
| 14:47 |
kahrl |
sapier: why is it not consistent? |
| 14:47 |
sapier |
Zeno gui's usually HAVE dynamic positioning, we don't |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
now use your window manager to change the size of that xterm |
| 14:47 |
gregorycu |
Window size is one way of looking at it |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
yes, but the font size does not change |
| 14:47 |
gregorycu |
But another way of looking at it is the resolution changes |
| 14:48 |
sapier |
draw an image in gimp then change the image size |
| 14:48 |
sapier |
you've two ways to do it |
| 14:48 |
Zeno` |
window size has nothing to do with resolution |
| 14:48 |
sapier |
add borders |
| 14:48 |
sapier |
or scale the image |
| 14:48 |
sapier |
by now we did scale the image but keep the fonts somehow positionend while everything else was scaled |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
sapier, change the window size of your IRC client |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
does the font size change? |
| 14:49 |
sapier |
no but do your icon sizes change on scaling your window? |
| 14:50 |
sapier |
for minetest this happens |
| 14:50 |
gregorycu |
I know a lot of games where the main menu fonts scale with window size |
| 14:50 |
sapier |
any image being part of a formspec hanges it's size but fonts don't is this consistent? |
| 14:51 |
sapier |
kahrl could you have a gui_scaling_factor set in your minetest.conf? |
| 14:51 |
kahrl |
I don't |
| 14:52 |
sapier |
are you sure? because the menus did increase when I did autodetect dpi |
| 14:53 |
kahrl |
in fact I just deleted my minetest.conf and it's still the same |
| 14:53 |
sapier |
as our menu is designed for 72 dpi it increases on almost anyones 96 dpi screen |
| 14:53 |
sapier |
ok |
| 14:53 |
sapier |
do you have more then 96 dpi? ;-) |
| 14:53 |
kahrl |
no idea, probably not |
| 14:53 |
sapier |
can you provide a screenshot? |
| 14:53 |
kahrl |
sure |
| 14:54 |
sapier |
Zeno`: ? do you get what I'm talking about? |
| 14:55 |
sapier |
we don't have autoexpanding formspec components so which one is supposed to use the room you add? |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
I just took 20 screenshots and opened them all in Gimp. I scaled each of them to 50%. The resulting "font sizes" in each of the rescaled images is the same |
| 14:56 |
sapier |
now take tose screenshots and a minetest window if everything works as expected you should get same on increasing decreasing the window size |
| 14:56 |
Zeno` |
nah, because I am taking a screenshot of the entire screen |
| 14:56 |
sapier |
except of those formspecs using fixed size |
| 14:57 |
sapier |
meaning mainmenu, pause, chat |
| 14:57 |
sapier |
not sure about inventory but I think that one aint fixed |
| 15:04 |
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hmmmm joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:10 |
kahrl |
sapier: http://i.imgur.com/NEozLKP.png |
| 15:10 |
kahrl |
sorry for the delay, had to fight with gimp... |
| 15:14 |
Zeno` |
you can't have that many torches! CHEATER! |
| 15:14 |
kahrl |
:D |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:19 |
gregorycu |
git is fucking up for me, I run a command and it climbs to 4GB memory usage before failing |
| 15:19 |
gregorycu |
git is great! |
| 15:22 |
sapier |
kahlr looks slightly bigger then for me ... I wonder why |
| 15:23 |
sapier |
if you have about 100dpi that's explain it ... sadly that information ain't shown anywhere |
| 15:24 |
kahrl |
is there some magic xrandr command for that? |
| 15:24 |
sapier |
yes I'm looking for it right now |
| 15:24 |
sapier |
xdpyinfo | grep resolution |
| 15:25 |
kahrl |
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch |
| 15:26 |
sapier |
ok I've got 95 ... that's most likely not the difference |
| 15:26 |
sapier |
unless we're exactly at the turning point |
| 15:27 |
sapier |
so we should reduce the fomt size a little bit kahrl? |
| 15:27 |
kahrl |
doesn't change (as far as I can see) after xrandr --dpi 95 |
| 15:27 |
sapier |
you can tell it which dpi to use? really? |
| 15:27 |
kahrl |
well my opinion is to make them the same in all formspecs |
| 15:27 |
kahrl |
yep |
| 15:28 |
sapier |
same font size for all formspecs but images scaling? are you serious? |
| 15:28 |
kahrl |
I don't see the problem |
| 15:29 |
sapier |
e.g. you have a icon image and a description to it |
| 15:29 |
kahrl |
if you just reduce the factor it will be too small in the inventory |
| 15:29 |
kahrl |
for me anyway |
| 15:29 |
sapier |
while the icon scales up the description keeps small |
| 15:29 |
kahrl |
yeah, why not? |
| 15:29 |
kahrl |
if it's too far off you change the font size |
| 15:29 |
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| 15:29 |
sapier |
let's say you scale it up by factor 4 because you don't see it on you high dpi screen |
| 15:30 |
sapier |
you'll have that small unreadable text next to a nice icon |
| 15:30 |
kahrl |
you would have the unreadable font everywhere so you change the font size |
| 15:30 |
sapier |
if you change the font size your buttons ext fields etc are moved around |
| 15:30 |
kahrl |
but since minetest reads the dpi it can choose a sane default font size |
| 15:31 |
gregorycu |
In github, how do I resync my fork to minetest? |
| 15:31 |
kahrl |
yeah, that needs to be fixed |
| 15:31 |
sapier |
so you really prefere a broken layout to a consistend scaling one? |
| 15:31 |
kahrl |
no |
| 15:31 |
kahrl |
fix the layout |
| 15:31 |
sapier |
I can't |
| 15:31 |
kahrl |
we talked about how to do it |
| 15:31 |
sapier |
not while keeping everything same |
| 15:32 |
sapier |
I could make the positioning font independent yes |
| 15:32 |
sapier |
but that's gonna break EVERY formspec |
| 15:32 |
sapier |
it'd be the clean way of doing it |
| 15:33 |
kahrl |
yeah, that's the reason for making it formspec version dependent |
| 15:33 |
sapier |
and you're the one maintaining it? |
| 15:33 |
kahrl |
the legacy formspecs get the old layout that only works on ~72dpi or whatever |
| 15:33 |
kahrl |
what's there to maintain? |
| 15:34 |
sapier |
mixing up old and new positioning is unmaintainable so we'd need to copy it |
| 15:34 |
sapier |
thus we'd have two independent implementations in parallel |
| 15:35 |
sapier |
unless everyone agrees to not change anything on old version and only work on new I'll not do this |
| 15:35 |
kahrl |
if (m_font_size_dependent_layout) { .. blah .. } is unmaintainable? |
| 15:35 |
sapier |
yes because the positioning is quite messed up atm by global variables and formspec element dependencys |
| 15:35 |
hmmmm |
hrmmm |
| 15:36 |
sapier |
I'll not add another variable to check and do even more complicated element positioning |
| 15:36 |
hmmmm |
that screenshot kahrl posted is supposed to demonstrate the difference in scaling between formspec GUI and native irrlicht GUI? |
| 15:36 |
hmmmm |
er what the lack of scaling vs. scaling does? |
| 15:36 |
kahrl |
hmmmm: just the inconsistent font size between different forms |
| 15:37 |
sapier |
kahrl that's by design half of these formspecs use fixed size |
| 15:37 |
hmmmm |
sound volume isn't formspec though |
| 15:37 |
kahrl |
well I made those screenshots from a user perspective |
| 15:37 |
kahrl |
they don't know what formspecs and native irrlicht GUIs are |
| 15:38 |
sapier |
well maybe we should just make sound volume a formspec ;-) |
| 15:38 |
kahrl |
or whether a formspec is fixed size |
| 15:38 |
hmmmm |
don't bother |
| 15:38 |
hmmmm |
my plan is to eliminate a couple of those menus into one actual options page |
| 15:38 |
sapier |
well we could make all of them fixed size |
| 15:38 |
sapier |
that's minor |
| 15:39 |
hmmmm |
the thing that's been holding me up is figuring out whether it should be scaled, how to scale it, do people even want scaling, etc. |
| 15:39 |
kahrl |
sapier: it would still be the same problem with mod-provided formspecs |
| 15:39 |
sapier |
What I don't like is this creapy scale some formspec elements but not all |
| 15:40 |
sapier |
ok hmmm so I'm not gonna spend time on in game settings |
| 15:40 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm, that will only solve the problem ob builtin formspecs |
| 15:40 |
Zeno` |
s/ob/of |
| 15:40 |
sapier |
ok one suggestion ... I'm gonna revert all those forspec font changes |
| 15:40 |
sapier |
add versioning |
| 15:41 |
sapier |
copy formspec and fix positioning in there |
| 15:41 |
hmmmm |
unrelated question, but is there any way to have irrlicht autoselect the height/width of the element you're adding based on text size? |
| 15:41 |
sapier |
AND declare old guiFormspecMenu.cpp read only |
| 15:41 |
Zeno` |
err |
| 15:42 |
sapier |
Zeno`: ? a little bit more information then "err" |
| 15:42 |
sapier |
hmmmm: I don't think so |
| 15:42 |
Zeno` |
add the versioning and a fallback for old clients |
| 15:42 |
sapier |
nope |
| 15:42 |
sapier |
if a formspec has new version there's not gonna be a fallback but an error |
| 15:43 |
sapier |
so a mod using new formspec wont show correct on old clients |
| 15:43 |
sapier |
I cannot convert formspecs otf |
| 15:43 |
Zeno` |
we don't release new clients often enough for that to be a viable solution :( |
| 15:43 |
kahrl |
sapier: btw it is already the case that some elements scale and some don't |
| 15:43 |
kahrl |
checkboxes |
| 15:43 |
sapier |
then there ain't any solution Zeno` |
| 15:44 |
Zeno` |
ok, maybe I am misunderstanding. I'll wait to see what you implement |
| 15:44 |
sapier |
kahrl: there are plenty of cases that need to be fixed |
| 15:44 |
sapier |
we fixed a few of them yet ... font wasn't the last thing |
| 15:44 |
Zeno` |
just, please, keep the font size the same across formspecs :/ |
| 15:45 |
Zeno` |
(for the same point size) |
| 15:45 |
sapier |
no because I wont spend a week of development to just have same discussion again |
| 15:45 |
sapier |
unless we have a general agreement on doing it this way I won't even start |
| 15:45 |
sapier |
of course we'll have to fix things once it's done |
| 15:46 |
Zeno` |
look, if I specify "I want a the font size to be 10pt" I expect it to be 10pt (even if it's pre-scaled) |
| 15:46 |
sapier |
Zeno I'm gonna keek either everything same size or nothing |
| 15:46 |
sapier |
I'm not gonna do this crazy scale something again |
| 15:46 |
Zeno` |
I don't expect 10pt in one formspec to look different to 10pt in an different formspec |
| 15:46 |
Zeno` |
you don't scale for each formspec! |
| 15:46 |
Zeno` |
you scale once |
| 15:46 |
sapier |
I'm gonna remove the font size setting as it's not usefull at all |
| 15:47 |
sapier |
crap each independent formspec element is scaled |
| 15:47 |
sapier |
I'm gonna scale all or none |
| 15:47 |
sapier |
not some |
| 15:47 |
Zeno` |
what's so hard to understand? |
| 15:48 |
Zeno` |
10pt (after initial scaling) must look the same and be the same size everywhere it's used |
| 15:49 |
sapier |
then we need to remove the support for different forms of formspecs |
| 15:49 |
sapier |
no fixed autoscale any longer |
| 15:49 |
sapier |
I'll be glad to remove this crap |
| 15:49 |
sapier |
I never wanted it anyway |
| 15:49 |
Zeno` |
it has to autoscale because the "actual" point size of the font is not known until after client init |
| 15:50 |
Zeno` |
s/point size/pixel size(width or height) |
| 15:50 |
sapier |
non autoscale was initially added because mainmenu did look crazy whith all that "empty" room in between it's elements |
| 15:51 |
sapier |
now as we have (almost) all scaling we actually wouldn't have that issue any longer |
| 15:52 |
sapier |
zeno you want all fonts to have same size? |
| 15:52 |
sapier |
right? |
| 15:53 |
Zeno` |
If I want a 10pt font (no matter the final pixel dimensions) I expect it to be the same size wherever it's shown |
| 15:53 |
sapier |
so no fixed forms any longer? |
| 15:54 |
sapier |
that's crucial becaus font height is tied to layout way to close |
| 15:54 |
sapier |
if we fix it we could make font heigth independent |
| 15:54 |
Zeno` |
well, check if the form is fixed size |
| 15:54 |
sapier |
but that's gonna break almost all formspecs |
| 15:55 |
sapier |
no I'm not doing additional checks zeno either we clean it up or revert it ... we're not gonna make it even more messy |
| 15:55 |
Zeno` |
well, I can't and won't make that decision |
| 15:55 |
Zeno` |
But I will say that I do not like the current behaviour and would revert it |
| 15:56 |
sapier |
good because by now we're at a dead end everyone doesn't want something different to not be changed at all |
| 15:56 |
sapier |
so we cannot fix anything |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
oooh controversy |
| 15:58 |
hmmmm |
am i like the only one who dgaf about formspec scaling |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
"dgaf"? |
| 15:58 |
n4x |
don't give a fuck |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
ah |
| 15:58 |
sapier |
well if I didn't need something consistent for android I wouldn't care too |
| 15:59 |
sapier |
but the old way doesn't work and I can't fix it without cleaning it up |
| 15:59 |
sapier |
the current way is the most compatible variant to old one we can get |
| 15:59 |
sapier |
unless we do two different variants |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:02 |
Zeno` |
which is what I suggested before |
| 16:02 |
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| 16:03 |
sapier |
well I didn't get an anwer till when you expect you redesign to be complete ... not even a rough guess |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:04 |
sapier |
and you didn't answer about my suggestion about the versioning either |
| 16:06 |
sfan5 |
>just made a new windows build |
| 16:06 |
sfan5 |
>kahrl pushes a new commit |
| 16:06 |
sapier |
windows doesn't have auto dpi detection |
| 16:06 |
sapier |
so there's another different situation |
| 16:07 |
kahrl |
sfan5, while you're busy, can you also setup weblate? :D |
| 16:07 |
sapier |
https://gist.github.com/sapier/d7561b4c0e3822053bbf Zeno`this should make fontsizes consistent |
| 16:07 |
ErronousNickname |
I'm reworking the GUIFormSpecMenu::OnEvent function. I removed the m_rmouse_auto_place for RMB dragging so it always works and implemented the MBR 10 items dragging as proposed. I'd make a bigger change to the function to make it more consistent and implement LMB dragging to split up the whole stack. Does that sound good? |
| 16:07 |
sfan5 |
kahrl: uh.. maybe |
| 16:07 |
kahrl |
sfan5: jk |
| 16:08 |
sfan5 |
>another commit |
| 16:08 |
sfan5 |
i think i'll be building a new build in the afternoon |
| 16:08 |
sapier |
ErronousNickname: do you have a andorid device to verify these changes don't break it? |
| 16:08 |
Zeno` |
sfan5, it does nothing |
| 16:09 |
Zeno` |
well, nothing that will affect anything anyway |
| 16:09 |
ErronousNickname |
No, that's a problem. Would an Android emulator (like the one from the SDK) work? |
| 16:10 |
sapier |
I think so |
| 16:10 |
sapier |
wait |
| 16:10 |
kahrl |
ErronousNickname: sounds good |
| 16:10 |
sapier |
emulators don't have multitouch support so you couldn't even test it |
| 16:10 |
kahrl |
ErronousNickname: make sure that dragging onto a different, non-empty stack doesn't cause it to swap |
| 16:11 |
kahrl |
(that was an annoying bug in the first version of that feature) |
| 16:11 |
sapier |
Zeno`: well with my patch we've a different issue |
| 16:11 |
sapier |
hud and gui scale independent |
| 16:11 |
ErronousNickname |
Non-empty stack of the sae type? |
| 16:11 |
kahrl |
different type |
| 16:11 |
sapier |
some fonts are part of hud others of gui |
| 16:12 |
Zeno` |
ErronousNickname, that whole function needs refactoring (IMO) |
| 16:13 |
sapier |
Zeno`: what about following solution I decouple layout from formspec by using a separate value instead of fontsize |
| 16:13 |
Zeno` |
and no, the m_rmouse_button_auto_place is required atm |
| 16:14 |
sapier |
that value is set to be correct at 800x600 ... everything else may be broken |
| 16:14 |
Zeno` |
sapier, possibly. I am tired and having trouble keeping up now :) |
| 16:15 |
ErronousNickname |
Zeno`: Why? It appears to work fine. Right click always places one (or adds one), dragging does the same for any tile I drag over |
| 16:16 |
Zeno` |
ErronousNickname, without it there are terrible problems (e.g. moving "mouse" over a non-empty inventory slot will swap whatever you have in your hand with what's in that inventory slot and cause litter) |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:17 |
Zeno` |
There needs to be some "user interaction" to enable "auto drop" |
| 16:17 |
ErronousNickname |
I fixed that. RMB dragging over non-empty won't do anything |
| 16:17 |
Zeno` |
I may have fixed the "litter" problem, I can't remember |
| 16:18 |
Zeno` |
ok, make a PR then |
| 16:18 |
ErronousNickname |
PR? |
| 16:18 |
Zeno` |
pull request |
| 16:19 |
ErronousNickname |
ok, soon. Haven't use github for quite some time |
| 16:20 |
kahrl |
ErronousNickname: how do you prevent auto dropping from happening if you mousedown on an item then don't immediately release? |
| 16:21 |
kahrl |
that may have been worded strangely, it's hard to express that |
| 16:21 |
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| 16:22 |
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| 16:22 |
kahrl |
well I'll see how it works when the PR is there |
| 16:23 |
ErronousNickname |
RMB DOWN on a stack will replace it atm, however dragging over won't. I don't think that's much of a problem but I will keep such things in mind when rewriting the function. |
| 16:23 |
kahrl |
I think RMB-dragging over the same kind of stack should drop one item |
| 16:24 |
kahrl |
not sure what should happen if you RMB-drag over the same slot twice |
| 16:25 |
kahrl |
minecraft doesn't drop anything in that case; but dropping an item again could be useful |
| 16:26 |
kahrl |
just to be clear, by "dropping" I mean adding to the target slot, not dropping an item entity |
| 16:26 |
kahrl |
(so much confusing language!) |
| 16:27 |
Zeno` |
happy new year! |
| 16:28 |
ErronousNickname |
RMB draggin over the same kind does add one item, so does dragging ove the same place twice. Dragging over a different type of item won't do anything BUT Mousedown will |
| 16:28 |
ErronousNickname |
git is sooo complicated...^^ |
| 16:28 |
kahrl |
ErronousNickname: yeah that's good |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:48 |
sapier |
crap ... we even have formspec elements using mixed positioning |
| 16:50 |
ErronousNickname |
kahrl: I'm really not sure about what I did but I'll just Create the pull request anyway if nobody will be mad if I messed up, ok? |
| 16:51 |
kahrl |
sure go ahead |
| 16:51 |
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| 17:05 |
rubenwardy |
sapier |
| 17:05 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2093 I'm gonna merge this in a few minutes ... zephram sorry I tryed to get your work in but ppl are to lazy to adjust to something better and I'm not willing to waste any more time |
| 17:06 |
rubenwardy |
Is this the correct way to scale by offset: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2094/files#diff-af29bcc6c7dda4b2f32c1b2e0c0dba42R177 |
| 17:06 |
sapier |
offset? |
| 17:06 |
rubenwardy |
in HUD |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
I don't know how the hud scaling works, so I copied from other code |
| 17:07 |
sapier |
no for what I remember it's displaydensity/96 |
| 17:07 |
sapier |
density |
| 17:07 |
sapier |
and you shouldn't apply it twice of course ;-) |
| 17:08 |
sapier |
porting::getDisplayDensity() * 96; |
| 17:08 |
sapier |
*96 not / 96 |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
Is it already applied? |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/hud.cpp#L350 |
| 17:18 |
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| 17:44 |
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| 17:47 |
sapier |
kilbith: please check if fonts now fullfill your whishes |
| 17:51 |
sfan5 |
oh god |
| 17:51 |
sfan5 |
shit |
| 17:51 |
sfan5 |
what did you guys do to the fonts |
| 17:51 |
sfan5 |
what the fuck |
| 17:51 |
sapier |
ok now next one is pissed ... grrr |
| 17:52 |
sapier |
I'll never touch any formspec again never never never ... no matter what you do there it's gonna be wrong |
| 17:52 |
sfan5 |
well |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
sapier: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/i/iO65dsaIUS8n.png |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
the menu fits perfectly on the 1920x1080 screen |
| 17:54 |
sapier |
did you ever manually change the gui_scaling factor? |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
(i still think it's too big in that case, but thats personal preference) |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
dunno |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
possibly |
| 17:54 |
sapier |
set it to 0.75 that's new default value |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
nope |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
i didn't change the gui scale |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
is it in minetest.conf? |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
obviously not |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
it seems to default to 1.0 |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
windows or linux? |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
linux |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
0.75 is too small |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
for all tabs to appear |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
ohh update your minetest clone it's supposed to default to 0.75 |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
can we please just have the old thing |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
that's what 0.75 does |
| 17:56 |
sfan5 |
"sapier authored an hour ago" |
| 17:56 |
sfan5 |
that explains it |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
thought I fixed it yesterday |
| 17:56 |
sfan5 |
does it look how it looked before 0.4.10 at HEAD? |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
close |
| 17:57 |
Joooo |
kahrl: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2092 in case you didn't notice. Is this the kind of PR you meant? |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
and going back to pre 0.4.10 implies droping android support ... which just ain't possible without clening up the scaling mess in formspec |
| 17:58 |
sfan5 |
what do you mean by "going back"? |
| 17:58 |
sfan5 |
sapier: it's too small |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
the only way to go back is removing fontengine and everything depending on it |
| 17:58 |
sfan5 |
way too small |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
this sucks |
| 17:59 |
sapier |
true ... one tells to small the other one to big |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
it even scaled the minimal icon to such an extent that the lines aren't visible |
| 17:59 |
sapier |
please make a screenshot and show me |
| 18:02 |
sfan5 |
sapier: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/RI_7iTtbMX-Y.png |
| 18:02 |
sapier |
what scaling factor is set now? |
| 18:02 |
sfan5 |
default |
| 18:02 |
sfan5 |
(no value set in mt.conf) |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
can you do a xdpyinfo | grep resolution and tell me what dpi you have? |
| 18:04 |
sfan5 |
96x96 dpi |
| 18:06 |
sapier |
ah I see ... removing the font automatic requires removing the gui scaling adjustment too |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
please try again |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
too big |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
rubenwardy: sorry mixed up X and Y .... are you sure you wanna do the fighting? |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
sapier: my opinion: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png |
| 18:11 |
sapier |
Well Zeno didn't want different formspecs to behave different so I disabled the fixed size for mainmenu |
| 18:12 |
kilbith |
sapier: compiling but seeing all that shit i think that revert to the 0.4.11 state would be better the best solution and don't care of Android, this isnt playable. |
| 18:12 |
kilbith |
0.4.11-stable state |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
0.4.11 is crap |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
it's just having all that font code in but throws away the result and uses something different |
| 18:13 |
sfan5 |
sapier: here's what i mean by too big https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
sfan do you have freetype? |
| 18:14 |
sfan5 |
wtf |
| 18:14 |
sfan5 |
ofc i have freetype |
| 18:14 |
sapier |
because this doesn't even look similar to what I see |
| 18:14 |
sfan5 |
can't you somehow set the gui scale so that the mainmenu looks like it looked in 0.4.9 |
| 18:14 |
rubenwardy |
It is a bug that needs to be fixed. My PR works at my gui_scaling and DPI. |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
Minetest 0.4.11-85-g30334b6 |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
Using Irrlicht 1.8.1 |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
Build info: VER=0.4.11-85-g30334b6 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=1 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=1 USE_CURL=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 USE_LUAJIT=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR=. |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
was there any image_button releated change? http://i.imgur.com/zh4NhV5.png |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
*related |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
I just need to know what to times offset.X and offset.Y by |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
Krock no |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
in-game, those buttons work fine |
| 18:16 |
Krock |
strange, this only happens in mainmenu |
| 18:16 |
sfan5 |
Krock: what? |
| 18:16 |
sapier |
sfan5 your fonts look why more fat then mine |
| 18:16 |
Krock |
sfan5, the not-drawing images |
| 18:16 |
sapier |
kilbith: would like to have your's ;-) |
| 18:16 |
kilbith |
a moment |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
Krock: does that subgame have an image |
| 18:17 |
Krock |
sfan5, all subgames except of redcrab has an image |
| 18:17 |
sapier |
how are we supposed to fix this if it looks different for everyone? |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
Krock: oh, you mean that dunno |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
sapier: git reset 0.4.9 --hard && git push -f |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
(jk) |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
but seriously |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
just revert the mainmenu to how it looked in 0.4.9 |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
nobody complained |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
at that time |
| 18:18 |
sapier |
if I do this we never can have a android build |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
then scale the mainmenu for android or whatever |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
all of this font/android stuff has just been making the looks of formspecs/the mainmenu inconsistent and ugly for everyone |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
I can't because it's not scaling but positioning what causes issues ... I'm telling this 200th time now |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
k |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
it's not android it's gonna be relevant for 4k screens too |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
0.4.9 formspec did work at exactly 96 dpi and 800x600 |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
0.4.11 is broken at exactly 96 dpi and 800x600 |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
for any other resolution and dpi level the result was actually undefined |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
-dev |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
for any other resolution and dpi level the result might be better or worse depending on who last touched the font code |
| 18:20 |
sapier |
well if you consider a slightly increased menu you could even fix yourself broken then it may be broken |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
</current situation> |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
"slightly increased menu" |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
wat |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
<sapier> sfan5 your fonts look way more fat then mine |
| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
how is that slightly |
| 18:21 |
sapier |
but I'm annoyed I'm gonna spend those 5h and revert back to 0.4.9 menu including all it's bugs ... don't anyone ever even ask me about formspec or android I'll just ignore any further request |
| 18:21 |
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| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
gg |
| 18:22 |
sfan5 |
guess we won't get a non-ugly mainmenu for 0.4.12 |
| 18:22 |
sfan5 |
time to switch to terminal interfaces |
| 18:24 |
kilbith |
if sapier don't revert his shit, Zeno will do. it's as simple as that. |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
Or fix it |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
so |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: link to your pull? |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
#2094 |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2094 |
| 18:25 |
Krock |
ShadowBot! |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
ShadowBot ignores me |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
So does ShadowNinja |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
It seams |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
seems |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
aw |
| 18:26 |
sfan5 |
that pull doesn't fix the mainmenu |
| 18:26 |
rubenwardy |
:( |
| 18:26 |
sfan5 |
i wonder how every other program manages to work with fonts |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
I'm not sure if https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2095 is the best soulation but it's one |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
when it seems so hard to do correctly |
| 18:27 |
rubenwardy |
Krock, does that work on all platforms? |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
rubenwardy, it replaces double-backslash with '/' and it works on windows - so I guess it also works with linux |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:31 |
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| 18:33 |
ezraanderson |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10924 <-- I though stan5 & sapier were in cahrge of the android version, correct? |
| 18:34 |
rubenwardy |
They were the main developers |
| 18:34 |
rubenwardy |
But nobody is really in charge. |
| 18:34 |
rubenwardy |
afaik |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
What is broken about the main menu? Is it the fonts being too small? |
| 18:35 |
Calinou |
scaling works strangely |
| 18:37 |
kilbith |
welcome to the hate club |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
ezraanderson: i only did an inital attempt at android, sapier is the android dev |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png |
| 18:42 |
ezraanderson |
is that an 800x600 window? |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
sfan5, checkboxes suck |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
(old checkboxes) |
| 18:47 |
sfan5 |
Krock: the ones with white bg? |
| 18:47 |
sfan5 |
ezraanderson: yes |
| 18:47 |
Krock |
sfan5, yes, these are ugly IMO |
| 18:48 |
Calinou |
white bg is preferable, it's more visible |
| 18:48 |
rubenwardy |
A minimalistic menu would be better, one meant for a game. https://jarime.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/terraria6.png |
| 18:49 |
rubenwardy |
My Minetest mainmenu draws like this: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/0/0oWP6rTHPJOd.png |
| 18:49 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: no freetype? |
| 18:49 |
kilbith |
yep, no freetype |
| 18:49 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: i think that white bg was because of using old irrlicht versions |
| 18:50 |
rubenwardy |
no. Should I use freetype? |
| 18:50 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 18:50 |
sfan5 |
and no |
| 18:50 |
sfan5 |
right now using freetype makes the menu look like https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png |
| 18:50 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 18:50 |
sfan5 |
(as of current HEAD) |
| 18:51 |
rubenwardy |
Is sapier, or someone, working on fixing it? Or will it be reverted? |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
<sapier> but I'm annoyed I'm gonna spend those 5h and revert back to 0.4.9 menu including all it's bugs ... don't anyone ever even ask me about formspec or android I'll just ignore any further request |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
* sapier (~sapier p5B02FE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left |
| 18:51 |
rubenwardy |
Lol. |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
i guess that means sapier doesn't want to fix it |
| 18:54 |
kilbith |
so it's clear enough, sfan5 has free hand to revert |
| 18:54 |
sfan5 |
the problem is that i don't know what to revent to make it non-ugly |
| 18:55 |
ezraanderson |
I can't tell if this is sarcasm, joking, or friction among you all |
| 18:56 |
rubenwardy |
friction |
| 18:56 |
rubenwardy |
probably |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
BTW, http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/lua_api.html |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:58 |
ezraanderson |
wow, nice :) |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:30 |
ShadowNinja |
I think font scaling can be fixed simply. Just use font_size in points so that it displays with the same physical size everywhere! This will break formspecs only with very big fonts (and that can't be solved without rewriting formspecs from scratch). |
| 19:35 |
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| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
if sapier reverts all those things, then we can just discard the android port too |
| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
know what you're getting into, people |
| 20:50 |
celeron55 |
i think every solution so far sucks |
| 20:51 |
sfan5 |
I'm not talking to reverting all those font things |
| 20:51 |
sfan5 |
but making the menu look like it looked under 0.4.9 at 96dpi 800x600 (standard stuff) |
| 20:52 |
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| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
well i full agree with that too |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
right now scaling or something else is just brokne |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
broken* |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
see the screenshots i posted |
| 20:54 |
ShadowNinja |
The gui scaling is good, but tying the font size into how other things are scaled is madness. |
| 20:54 |
celeron55 |
also it looks like freetype and non-freetype fonts have a size difference |
| 20:54 |
sfan5 |
https://cdn.mediacru.sh/e/eTMm9UxkEqTc.png https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rw28oPh531fD.png (these) |
| 20:54 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: I think non-freetype just choses the colsest bitmap font. |
| 20:54 |
celeron55 |
this just needs patience from everyone; you can't just go and rant at sapier for all day and expect him to not explode and quit |
| 20:55 |
sfan5 |
ShadowNinja: the screenshot rubenwardy posted looks like irrlichts bitmap font |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
unless you expect him to do that and then proceed to replace his effort |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
irrlicht's font is smaller i think |
| 20:56 |
Krock |
please not irrlicht's default font.. |
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| 21:55 |
sfan5 |
argh |
| 21:55 |
sfan5 |
ShadowNinja: why are you adding low priority labels |
| 21:55 |
sfan5 |
everything that is not either of the other priorities is automatically low priority |
| 21:57 |
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| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
38.107.244.xxx - - [09/Jan/2015:22:03:00 +0000] "POST /announce HTTP/1.1" 202 61 "-" "Minetest/0.4.dev-20120122-1-2338-ga86a633-dirty (Linux/3.2.0-4-amd64 x86_64)" "-" |
| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
looks like someone also has the bug with git i had a few years ago |
| 22:04 |
sfan5 |
(look at the version, it's using a very old tag which is >2000 commits behind) |
| 22:04 |
n4x |
what bug |
| 22:04 |
sfan5 |
or maybe it's not git |
| 22:04 |
sfan5 |
or something else |
| 22:05 |
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| 22:08 |
ShadowNinja |
sfan5: Looks like they have to git pull --tags. |
| 22:29 |
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| 22:38 |
ezraanderson |
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.c55.wandstep <-- celeron55, what did you write this game in? |
| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
html5 with a bunch of crap i have written during the past 18 months |
| 22:40 |
celeron55 |
namely https://github.com/8dromeda/h1edpi |
| 22:40 |
ezraanderson |
so android version is wrapped in htm5? |
| 22:40 |
celeron55 |
yes, with a number of details polished for that specific purpose |
| 22:41 |
ezraanderson |
whats your development system? linux,win,osx? |
| 22:42 |
acerspyro |
Maybe he's on BSD :P |
| 22:43 |
celeron55 |
you don't need to look very far to find an answer to that but linux |
| 22:43 |
acerspyro |
^ |
| 22:43 |
acerspyro |
I figured that the head dev of an open-source ALTERNATIVE project to something closed-source would be on a free platform. |
| 22:45 |
ezraanderson |
I assumed so, but he might be a Vbox fan, for all I know |
| 22:46 |
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| 22:46 |
acerspyro |
lol, to me, using vbox is the equivalent of holding the OS by the tip of the fingers like it's a rotting piece of dog shit. |
| 22:46 |
celeron55 |
well that's what i use vbox for |
| 22:46 |
acerspyro |
To run Windows in it. |
| 22:46 |
acerspyro |
Windows merited that. |
| 22:46 |
acerspyro |
:P |
| 23:45 |
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