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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-01-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 kilbith there's the Mono DejaVu Sans
00:00 kilbith https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/tree/master/fonts
00:00 sapier that'S the non freetype font
00:00 sapier well one of them
00:00 VanessaE sapier: um, there's a dejavu sans and also a dejavu sand mono font
00:00 VanessaE I have them on my system
00:01 sapier but I just saw there are some useless files in there too I'm removing it
00:01 kilbith can't say, but i'm sure that i use freetype and DejaVu
00:01 VanessaE (idk if minetest does or does not use the system ones, but I know they exist)
00:01 sapier kilbith: that's hard to believe
00:02 sapier unless the file we use contains dejavu but ain't named that way
00:02 kilbith how can i prove that my build use freetype, factually ?
00:03 sapier actually it's quite hard to proove nowadays as non ft fonts look almost as good as ft
00:03 sapier you should see in pause menu if you did compile with freetype
00:03 sapier if you didn't disable it in config it's supposed to be enabled
00:04 kilbith -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1  this is i used this mornig
00:04 kilbith +n
00:04 sapier isn't it USE_FREETYPE=1
00:04 sapier I'm not sure I always mix those
00:05 kilbith and anyways, the daily builds on launchpad use freetype too and the look is the same than my own build
00:05 sapier but even for non freetype dejavu is mono font only and menu shouldn't use it
00:05 kilbith ENABLE_FREETYPE     - Build with Freetype2; Allows using TTF fonts
00:05 sapier well that's one thing we did with font engine too freetype as well as non freetype look quite same
00:06 sapier hmm not exactly
00:07 sapier non freetype is a little bit smaller at default scaling
00:07 sapier and doesn't have shadows
00:08 sapier but we still don't have a ttf font file called dejavu ;-)
00:09 sapier FreeSans seems to be smaller
00:10 kilbith sapier: https://lut.im/odN0B7ZI/HAdQlrdj
00:10 kilbith and it's DejaVu
00:11 sapier well it's still not called dejavu ;-)
00:11 VanessaE I miss bitstream vera sans
00:12 VanessaE that was the *perfect* sans font :P
00:12 VanessaE (well the mono version was anyway)
00:13 sapier we've got liberationsans.ttf and DroisSansFallbackFull.ttf and liberationmono.ttf
00:13 sapier no other ttf fonts are there if you didn't copy them
00:14 sapier yess freesans is about 2 px less height then liberationsans
00:15 kilbith but more stocky
00:15 sapier well liberationsans at that size would most likely be same stocky ;-)
00:16 sapier hmm not most likely but exactly
00:16 sapier just tried
00:19 sapier well guys I don't care if you find a font all of you agree and that one is free let's just use that font
00:22 acerspyro how about no fonts at all, but instead, a voice that tells you what the button says
00:23 sapier someone would complain about the voice not beeing friendly enough for sure
00:23 hmmmm ahhhh shit don't tell me that i left that commented out when i went to commit
00:23 acerspyro YO, BITCH, DIS IS THE FUCKIN' CONNECT BUTTON
00:23 acerspyro *little kid cries*
00:24 hmmmm but how would a system without audio configured workt hen
00:24 sapier braille?
00:24 acerspyro flash caps lock to say a sentence in binary
00:25 sapier for what I know braille doesn't have stupid things like font
00:25 VanessaE wat?  dude, efficiency!  use all three lights.
00:25 acerspyro That would need a system based on the triplum theory
00:26 acerspyro You'll need 4 lights to use a quantic system.
00:26 VanessaE but THERE.. ARE.. NOT.. FOUR.. LIGHTS!!
00:26 * VanessaE hides
00:26 acerspyro power light
00:26 acerspyro :D
00:26 VanessaE in that case flash the HDD light too :P
00:27 acerspyro yeah
00:27 acerspyro and the wireless light
00:27 acerspyro and the bluetooth light
00:27 acerspyro And the backlight
00:27 acerspyro :D
00:28 sapier just use those damn stupid things called pixels almost any screen has plenty of them
00:28 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/4a57ef12a163f9792a8822b6e1a2bd9dca4f86fb
00:28 sapier :-P
00:28 hmmmm you guys can stop crying now, i made a mistake
00:28 hmmmm i fixed it
00:28 sapier lol
00:28 hmmmm it existed for a whole three days
00:28 acerspyro lol
00:28 sapier second silly bug today :)
00:28 acerspyro We made it.
00:29 hmmmm i stopped liquid flow temporarily to compare generated light sources
00:29 VanessaE hmmmm: but...but...that just means everyone will have to bitch even louder about fonts or something :P
00:29 sapier I don't know how often I accidentally merged real debuging debug mode
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00:50 acerspyro Can we make it so that you can drag scrolling lists to scroll them? It's pretty hard to grab the scroll bar on android
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01:39 hmmmm hrum
01:39 hmmmm is there any way to have irrlicht autoselect the height/width of a control based on how much space the text takes up?
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01:45 paramat hmmmm, please could you merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2078 ?
01:45 hmmmm yeah, i *could*
01:46 hmmmm but i'm not sure if i *will*...  what do other people say about this change?
01:46 paramat sorry, 'review'
01:47 hmmmm so calinou created the original commit
01:47 hmmmm hmm
01:47 paramat it was merged by zeno with approval from RBA
01:48 hmmmm this is a very subjective kind of thing
01:48 hmmmm let me try it out first...
01:48 paramat if you test the original value 23 on 1:1 steps then try the current value of 10 you will get a shock
01:49 paramat well yes but it's now so bad it's beyond subjective
01:49 paramat =)
01:52 paramat i think you should be the new AV manager, i trust you with that. we need someone with similar tastes to c55 to preserve MT's character, for continuity
01:54 hmmmm i can barely see the difference between the two
01:55 paramat face a wall beside the steps and walk sideways up the step
01:56 paramat the player also sinks deep into a set of steps
01:58 paramat doing the exponential math at framerate 60FPS, the camera position used to be 68% biased towards the previous frame, now it's 85%, huge change
01:59 acerspyro do backtraces go here or in #minetest?
02:03 paramat camera rise time for a step went from a small fraction of a second to over 1 second
02:04 paramat anyway perhaps we'll end up with a parameter for it =)
02:11 hmmmm i think so too
02:11 hmmmm i'd rather wait and get some more feedback from the community
02:11 hmmmm maybe make a forum post about it
02:11 paramat okay cool
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02:57 Zeno` err... what's happening with fonts?
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03:45 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Make a ling staircase and walk up it.  After a few seconds you'll feel like your chin is touching the stairs.
03:45 ShadowNinja I might have tested with a slightly higher walking speed though.
03:46 ShadowNinja long*
03:46 VanessaE ShadowNinja: already reported that.
03:46 VanessaE as did paramat
03:47 VanessaE [01-05 16:15] <VanessaE> that reminds me - something was changed in the step height such that if you RUN up a long flight of stairs (say 10 nodes worth), you "sink" into the stairs a bit.
03:47 Zeno` Just for the record, my fonts look terrible
03:56 Zeno` gui_scaling = 0.62 looks almost right... but, *shudder*
03:58 hmmmm yeah, my fonts got super huge after the most recent patch
03:59 hmmmm so can somebody please clue me into formspec sizing and fonts?  how does this work?  how is screen_dpi related to gui_scaling?
03:59 Zeno` why am I setting gui_scaling to 0.62 though for things to look *almost* right
03:59 Zeno` it's not quite right, but it's acceptable
04:00 Zeno` sort of :/
04:00 VanessaE hmmmm: only sapier can give a straight answer.  I'm completely clueless now :-/
04:00 Zeno` which commit is it?
04:00 VanessaE all I know is, the fonts need to stay exactly the same point size no matter where they appear in- or out-of-game, regardless of window size.
04:00 hmmmm he reverted your #if 0.  sapier says that thing works as intended
04:00 VanessaE and that point size needs to be something *I* can set from the config.
04:01 Zeno` So the fonts being broken is intended? cool!
04:01 hmmmm he just added X dpi detection
04:01 Zeno` Working as intended for sapier, maybe. Certainly not what I would expected intended to be though :(
04:01 Zeno` ok, that commit... /me looks
04:02 * Zeno` wonders what 0.039370 is
04:02 hmmmm i recognize that constant from somewhere
04:03 VanessaE I wondered that too when I saw it, didn't think to ask.
04:04 hmmmm feet per millimeter
04:05 VanessaE wat
04:05 hmmmm eactually no
04:05 VanessaE well 0.039370 feet does work out to exactly 12 mm
04:05 VanessaE so thats one inch in m,m
04:05 VanessaE mm
04:06 VanessaE er, 1 mm in inches
04:06 hmmmm The DisplayWidthMM macro returns the width of the specified in screen in millimeters
04:06 hmmmm so you guess
04:06 hmmmm DPI == Dots Per Inches
04:06 hmmmm you're gonna need to convert millimeters to inches somewhere
04:06 Zeno` close
04:07 VanessaE true enough
04:07 VanessaE I tend to forget displays are specified in mm in X
04:07 hmmmm i never even knew that ;\
04:07 hmmmm hrmm, you'd sware Irrlicht would provide something for getting the DPI from the OS
04:08 hmmmm somebody around here was asking for an easy thing to do on minetest.. here's one, add Windows, Android, and OS X DPI detection
04:08 Zeno` well even if it's detecting DPI correctly (it seems to be) things still seem.. "wrong"
04:19 Zeno` Well, that's another point. I wonder what these changes look like on Windows
04:20 Zeno` or Wayland
04:34 Zeno` I'm marking it as a bug
04:34 Zeno` i.e. the text input formspec is broken again like last time
04:35 Zeno` you start typing and at the end of the input box you keep typing but the characters are hidden
04:35 Zeno` (this is if you change gui_scaling)
05:05 Zeno` merging 2078
05:05 Zeno` #2078
05:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2078 -- Return step smoothing value to 23 by paramat
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06:10 Zeno` I just tried to explain max_lag on the forum. Dunno if I did a very good job :3 lol
06:12 Zeno` (probably because I'm convinced how useful it is myself)
06:12 Zeno` I'm not*
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08:58 Zeno` So what percentage of server_step should transformLiquids() be allowed to consume?
08:58 Zeno` Assuming liquid_loop_max is deprecated
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09:14 gregorycu I'd argue whatever is remaining
09:17 Zeno` heh, what is that? :p
09:18 Zeno` oh, like fps... yeah ok
09:18 Zeno` hmm
09:19 Zeno` so server step is (by default) 0.1 seconds
09:19 Zeno` .. just thinking out aloud here
09:20 Zeno` what if the server is not even keeping up with that?
09:20 Zeno` (ignoring transformLiquids())
09:22 Zeno` might have to be a percentage of "whatever a server_step actually takes excluding the transformLiquids()"
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09:31 gregorycu If the server step is never hitting its target, we need to fix that
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11:51 luizrpgluiz hi
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13:42 gregorycu He's back, and ready for more
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15:12 Zeno` Perhaps this font scaling based on the size of the form(spec) should be abandoned
15:12 Zeno` it makes no sense
15:12 gregorycu Zeno, I have some "interesting" news
15:12 Zeno` A scaled font (once scaled) should be the same size in everywhere
15:12 Zeno` news?
15:14 gregorycu So, I dug a trench, and dropped some water down one end
15:14 gregorycu This is how the nodes were updated
15:14 gregorycu http://pastebin.com/JaEbqNtU
15:14 gregorycu Each row is a "tick"
15:14 gregorycu And each column a node in the row
15:15 gregorycu x is a node getting updated
15:15 gregorycu Bloody strange pattern
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16:20 ShadowNinja Font should always be the same physical size, that's what points are for.  Just interpret font_size as points using the screen's DPI.
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17:25 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/issues/2080#event-215598643 we don't assign people to issues / pull requests
17:26 PilzAdam it looks as if we are saying "nobody else is allowed to research / fix / work on this"
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17:55 sfan5 ShadowNinja: ping
18:03 Krock is it my fault when the subgames don't show up correctly in the menu?
18:03 Krock well, they're there but the icon has gone
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18:05 Krock also the serverlist images are broken
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18:33 Calinou crap, my step height commit was reverted
18:33 Calinou well, step height is FPS-dependant
18:33 Calinou paramat should have put an intermediate value like 20
18:34 VanessaE Calinou: I guess that's the one that makes you sink down to your chin if you climb a long flight of stairs
18:34 Calinou there should be a max sink-down too
18:34 VanessaE (or it feels that way from a first person perspective)
18:35 Calinou my world stopped generating?
18:36 VanessaE it did?
18:38 Calinou https://lut.im/0DkaM08V/KwOa7wKJ
18:39 VanessaE weird
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18:45 Krock Calinou, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1815
18:46 VanessaE does Carbone use a lua mapgen?
18:48 Krock also flower-growing could use vmanip
18:50 Calinou VanessaE, no, also I was using minetest_game
18:51 VanessaE huh, I shoulda recognized that terrain as standard mgv6 faire.
18:53 VanessaE as for the map stopping like that, I've no idea :-/
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19:31 ezraanderson what is a goog time to catch celeron55 online for a quick chat?
19:32 rubenwardy Are you sure you need to speak to him?
19:32 rubenwardy Others may be able to help
19:33 ezraanderson https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=10924 <-- he has thread, I don't have time to test it, but I might have some advice
19:34 ezraanderson I can
19:34 rubenwardy Ah. You might want to email or PM him, if he isn't responding now
19:35 ezraanderson I can't post there, but I think you really wants testers, which sad because I would love to test just lacking time :(
19:35 ezraanderson blah, typing issues/ *I can post there
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20:26 sfan5 * b0ba05c - (tag: 0.4.0) BITCH, THIS IS 0.4.0. (2 years, 6 months ago)<Perttu Ahola>
20:26 sfan5 ^ my favourite commit
20:26 sfan5 ShadowNinja: ping
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20:36 ShadowNinja ShadowNinja: Yes?
20:36 ShadowNinja ...
20:36 ShadowNinja sfan5: Yes?
20:37 ShadowNinja inb4 lol
20:38 sfan5 lol
20:38 sfan5 ShadowNinja: i have the patch you wanted
20:40 ShadowNinja sfan5: Ah, thanks.  Link?
20:40 sfan5 ShadowNinja: in a min.
20:44 sfan5 ShadowNinja: http://sprunge.us/aGZK
20:45 sfan5 just git am that and push it to your branch
20:45 sfan5 and travis should work again
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20:49 ShadowNinja sfan5: Just waiting on https://travis-ci.org/minete​st/minetest/builds/46364208 now.
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21:00 ShadowNinja Does #2046 look good now?
21:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2046 -- Remove included SQLite3 by ShadowNinja
21:03 sfan5 ShadowNinja: yep
21:03 sfan5 it doesn't only look good
21:03 sfan5 it was actually tested
21:03 sfan5 (i even tested whether the produced windows builds worked)
21:07 ShadowNinja sfan5: Have you successfully built a server with only the Irrlicht headers, or do you know of someone who has?.
21:07 sfan5 I'm pretty sure the server does not even link to irrlicht
21:07 ShadowNinja Some of the more complex Irrlicht things that the server uses might be implemented in source files.
21:08 * ShadowNinja looks.
21:09 ShadowNinja Yep.  I'll revert that.
21:13 sfan5 i just built a server without having irrlicht installed
21:13 sfan5 (from HEAD)
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21:25 Amaz I have a bug with the scaling of the menu and formspecs...
21:25 VanessaE everyone does.
21:25 Amaz Okay.
21:25 Amaz Meau appears really big, inventory appears really small?
21:25 Amaz *menu
21:28 sfan5 ShadowNinja: can you merge 2046 now?
21:34 ShadowNinja sfan5: Yep.
21:35 ShadowNinja sfan5: Done.
21:36 sfan5 now they're in the wrong order
21:36 sfan5 but who cares
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21:38 apdapreturns Hello
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21:42 ShadowNinja sfan5: In that order there's never a commit with a broken Windows build.
21:42 apdapreturns Can I ask something about cmake build process for windows?
21:42 sfan5 hm, correct
21:42 apdapreturns CMAKE_CODEBLOCKS_EXECUTABLE, what is this?
21:42 apdapreturns actually, lol
21:43 sfan5 that doesn't have anything to do with windows
21:43 apdapreturns I was going to ask about the DLL errors I got when running cc.exe
21:43 apdapreturns but I should probably go ask around in mingw-w64
21:43 apdapreturns also that was a stupid question
21:43 apdapreturns that's probably just codeblocks.exe, lol
21:44 apdapreturns srry for stupid question
21:44 sfan5 if you use code::blocks with cmake, cmake probably wants to know where to find codeblock
21:45 apdapreturns yeah exactly
21:45 apdapreturns libwinpthread-1.dll errors are probably just because I'm missing that in mingw-w64/bin/
21:46 sfan5 correct
21:51 apdapreturns when cmake resets your whole config
21:51 apdapreturns >_>
21:52 iqualfragile_ PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API (not enough memory)
21:53 iqualfragile_ i do think i have enought memory
21:53 iqualfragile_ or is 32GB not considered enough anymore
21:56 apdapreturns hmm
21:56 apdapreturns is it a good idea to build minetest automatically at each new commit
21:56 apdapreturns and if so can I setup something like cron to do that? i'm not good with git
22:05 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: You might have a mod that's doing something like logging every chat message in memory (that caused LuaBot to crash twice, although it took a few days and the system had only 512MB).
22:06 iqualfragile_ ShadowNinja: it crashes within minutes from starting
22:06 iqualfragile_ and i guess its pipeworks loading shittons of items
22:06 iqualfragile_ but i want it to do that
22:07 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: You want it to load 30GB or items?
22:07 ShadowNinja If so, download more RAM.
22:07 iqualfragile_ it does not fill my ram
22:08 iqualfragile_ it only uses about 1GB and then crashes
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22:08 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: Oh, that's weird.
22:08 apdapreturns CMakeFiles\minetest.dir\objects.a(l​_mainmenu.cpp.obj)l_mainmenu.cpp|| undefined reference to `__imp_libintl_gettext'|
22:09 iqualfragile_ yep, almost exactly one gb
22:09 apdapreturns my gettext include dir and DLLs are correct in cmake
22:09 apdapreturns any ideas? :s
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22:09 chrisf iqualfragile_: attach a debugger, find out what's actually going on...
22:10 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: Lua or LuaJIT?
22:10 iqualfragile_ luajit
22:11 iqualfragile_ you can't run pipeworks with just lua
22:15 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: Try Lua: http://stackoverflow.com/questions​/27015150/how-to-get-past-1gb-memo​ry-limit-of-64-bit-luajit-on-linux
22:16 ShadowNinja (Or get pipeworks to use malloc() through FFI)
22:17 iqualfragile_ great god
22:17 apdapreturns undefined reference to `__imp_libintl_gettext'| Anyone?
22:19 iqualfragile_ pipeworks and luajit don't seem to like each others, i have had similar problems earlier
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22:25 apdapreturns CMakeFiles\minetest.dir\objects.a(seri​alization.cpp.obj)serialization.cpp|| undefined reference to `deflate'|
22:25 apdapreturns anyone can help me with that? did anyone here build minetest for windows?
22:29 ShadowNinja apdapreturns: Link to ZLib.
22:30 apdapreturns ShadowNinja, I already used cmake to link zlib
22:31 ShadowNinja apdapreturns: Then make sure it's found.
22:32 iqualfragile ok, this is strange: the memory use only happens when enabling pipeworks
22:32 iqualfragile also when not using luajit it does not even try to use that much ram
22:33 iqualfragile but when i do use it it crashes reliably
22:36 iqualfragile also using gdb gives no stacktrace
22:39 apdapreturns ShadowNinja, back, how?
22:40 apdapreturns I'm pretty sure deflate.c and deflate.h are there
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22:43 apdapreturns ok need to link with -lz
22:43 apdapreturns i think
22:49 apdapreturns -lz and it's still giving me errors
22:49 apdapreturns not fun :s
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23:18 ezraanderson I can't remember the code tags for github issue?
23:18 ezraanderson '' or ``?
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23:27 kilbith sapier: any plan for fix the scaling ? everyone is complaining so far
23:28 sapier I'm waiting for your and vanessaE's suggestion for a different font
23:28 sapier you both think we use wrong font so suggest a better one
23:29 sapier I can't make the font less skinny then it is and was before
23:29 kilbith ...
23:29 kilbith it's NOT just about the fonts scaling
23:29 kilbith read the logs/git please
23:29 Wayward_One ezraanderson, i believe it's the same code tag for a PR
23:30 sapier sorry I read it about twenty times the only issue I read form there is "it's skinny" and "I don't like it"
23:30 Wayward_One *test* #2045
23:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2045 -- Possible memory leak
23:30 sapier first one ok I understand it but I don't see a way to fix
23:31 sapier second ... well nice you don't like it but I can't make everyone happy just because he got used to the old non scaling fonts
23:31 sapier if you give me some hint how to fix it I'll gladly do it
23:31 kilbith just an example... http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-01-08#i_4100207
23:31 kilbith Zeno is disgusted too
23:32 sapier of course menu is big as it's now adjusted to screen dpi
23:32 sapier and it's not a complain about font scaling but about the dpi fix
23:33 kilbith bear in mind that the issue is unanimously recongnized
23:33 sapier everyone is disgusted but noone does really make suggestions how to fix "keep it broken as before" ain't an option
23:34 sapier tell me what exactly ypu don't like or get used to it
23:34 sapier I can fix amaz issue for example
23:35 kilbith i have detailled enough my complain i think :)
23:36 ezraanderson the code tag, i used and worked for including code in an issue is ```C
23:36 ezraanderson I just couldn't remember
23:36 sapier well if you feel this is detailed enough I'm sorry I'm most likely not smart enough to read what you mean
23:36 sapier maybe someone more smart can translate it for me
23:37 mrtux joined #minetest-dev
23:37 ezraanderson what font issue?
23:38 sapier that's exactly what I wanna know ezraanderson
23:40 kilbith you're trying to easily to desengage you for fix the issue clearly expressed both by me and vanessa
23:40 kilbith s/to/too
23:40 sapier noone of you did express anything clearly?
23:41 sapier what's wrong? to big/small? to big/small compared to button size? what else?
23:41 sapier I can't fix a "doesn't look nice"
23:41 sapier goddamn
23:41 kilbith again, read the logs
23:42 kilbith and doesnt simplify our speeches
23:42 sapier no I'm not gonna read the logs a 120th time if you can't tell me what's wrong in a few sentences there's most likely nothing at all wrong
23:43 ezraanderson are you talking about the android version? or all versions?
23:44 sapier he's talking about pc version on his particular screen
23:44 ezraanderson ah
23:44 ezraanderson is it  4k monitor or something?
23:45 kilbith just a random laptop screen but "particular" is used for invalidate my issue ;)
23:46 sapier No I just mentioned this to show up that what you see there may not be true for everyone and we have to find a solution suitable for everyone
23:50 kilbith well, 7ad17a25 is a good start, thanks
23:51 sapier well actually it's just for calming down ppl beeing to lazy to get used to changing a setting themselfs
23:52 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
23:53 sapier still I need to know what else you believe to be wrong kilbith
23:55 kilbith the scalling is simply excessive and the fonts aren't consistent/skinny
23:55 sapier excessive consistent skinny ... all relative and subjective sayings
23:55 kilbith all is defined here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2077
23:55 kilbith no, that's unanimous
23:56 sapier ok I'm gonna fix it
23:56 sapier done ... it's way better now
23:56 kilbith thanks, and i'm gonna sleep right now
23:57 sapier good .. maybe you can be more precise what precise change you expect me to do
23:57 sapier fonts scale exactly same way as formspec scale (except of rounding errors) I don't se how it can be more consistent
23:58 kilbith ^ VanessaE, i pass you the relay
23:58 sapier skinny ... well at some sizes this is true yes ... but that's a basic issue with rasterized screens ... get a 4k screen and we're gonna see way less issues like this
23:59 sapier and excessive ... well you're always free to set a smaller gui_scaling factor

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