| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:02 |
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Sokomine joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:01 |
hmmmm |
welp I got terasology working and then Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError |
| 01:02 |
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| 01:14 |
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| 01:25 |
paramat |
hmmmm do you know about cube world? https://picroma.com/media it's the only other voxel game other than MC and MT that interests me |
| 01:27 |
paramat |
most of the blocks aren't diggable though |
| 01:27 |
hmmmm |
well there's why it loads so fast |
| 01:28 |
hmmmm |
they pregenerate the meshes |
| 01:28 |
hmmmm |
which means they're also in a better position to pregenerate lights |
| 01:41 |
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| 02:02 |
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| 02:04 |
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| 02:26 |
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| 02:54 |
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| 04:03 |
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| 04:23 |
paramat |
non-eased 2d noise is essential for making widely spaced towers to the floatlands that do not look phallic |
| 04:23 |
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| 04:23 |
hmmmm |
dicklands v3.0 |
| 04:24 |
hmmmm |
why do you say non-eased? |
| 04:43 |
hmmmm |
so I was thinking about things a little bit more, and method #2 for alternative lighting isn't actually limited by the amount of spread since the only thing that matters are light values at the mapblock edge |
| 04:49 |
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| 05:08 |
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| 05:22 |
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| 05:40 |
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| 05:40 |
paramat |
https://cdn.mediacru.sh/8/8X1EueLVjzv3.png https://cdn.mediacru.sh/P/PuO-2rK_0s4q.png |
| 05:41 |
paramat |
with 2d noise these would have a round cross section and a rounded knobby-end |
| 05:41 |
paramat |
now they have a diamond cross section and are spiky and blade like |
| 05:44 |
hmmmm |
ahh that's great stuff |
| 05:45 |
paramat |
it's 2d noise that when it exceeds 1.1, the amount it exceeds is ^ 4 then multiplied by a factor |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
i love how the 3d noise makes a bridge over the river |
| 05:45 |
paramat |
yeah good bridge |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
how do you make rivers again? |
| 05:45 |
paramat |
https://github.com/paramat/levels |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
intersection of two different noises or something |
| 05:46 |
paramat |
um, terrain height = abs(2dnoise) creates the valleys |
| 05:47 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 05:47 |
paramat |
then place that on top of a large scale 2d noise to vary the riverbed height |
| 05:47 |
hmmmm |
I used to use low points of 2d noise to make rivers but they formed a lot of closed loops |
| 05:47 |
hmmmm |
anyway looking at minecraft's generation method made me rethink things |
| 05:48 |
paramat |
yes i get that too, so i use a very large scale and low persistence |
| 05:48 |
hmmmm |
it might be a good idea to statically generate an overview of the world on world init |
| 05:48 |
hmmmm |
so that way I can set map-wide details |
| 05:48 |
paramat |
(see riverdev mod for my river method) |
| 05:49 |
paramat |
terasology creates it's world that way |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
minecraft does rivers by fractals |
| 05:49 |
ShadowNinja |
So it seems like lua-aip-md is approved. I'll merge soon, unless you object hmmmm? |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
what's that? |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
oh the documentation md format? yeah |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
so it assigns pixels numbers from 0 to 3 |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
and then the borders between 2 and 3 blocks it assigns to be part of the river |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
and then it does some kind of polynomial smoothing |
| 05:50 |
paramat |
interesting |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
i like the idea of having a larger overview of the map to work with but i don't like that algorithm |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
it sucks |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
well maybe it produces good enough rivers but i can do even better |
| 05:51 |
paramat |
of course |
| 05:51 |
hmmmm |
i can randomly generate points over the map and use them as inflection points for a bezier curve |
| 05:51 |
paramat |
i've been aiming to have terrain detail on all scales up to almost world scale |
| 05:51 |
hmmmm |
bezier curves typically make great rivers |
| 05:52 |
* paramat |
will research bezier |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
yeah that's the real big problem with perlin noise |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
you simply can't get world-scale features |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
they keep repeating too often, and if you set the spread factor too large, that causes other problems |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
like lack of detail |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
so then to compensate you need to add more octaves |
| 05:53 |
hmmmm |
but then adding more octaves causes more smaller versions of the features you're aiming to have |
| 05:53 |
hmmmm |
etc. |
| 05:53 |
hmmmm |
i haven't experimented with lacunarity too much at this point, but i have a feeling that might be another way to overcome this issue |
| 05:53 |
hmmmm |
i like what it did with 3d noise blobs |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
i don't like what lacunarity does for 2d noise so far |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
maybe i just haven't hit the right values |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
i really haven't been doing much mapgen stuff, period, as of late |
| 05:55 |
ShadowNinja |
BTW, the md Lua API could use some improvement, but that'll be 10000x easier after it's merged. |
| 05:55 |
hmmmm |
just do it |
| 05:56 |
|
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| 05:56 |
paramat |
in watershed/riverdev, there are several terrain characteristics, each with it's own scale and low octaves. together they cover all scales of detail |
| 05:57 |
paramat |
well up to 8000 nodes |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
typically i've noticed that noise looks bad with less than 3 octaves |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
the kind of noise we have anyway |
| 05:57 |
paramat |
^ yes |
| 05:57 |
hmmmm |
simplex noise can offer higher quality noise |
| 05:58 |
hmmmm |
i need to figure out how to optimize that first, though |
| 05:58 |
paramat |
i considered 8000 nodes to be okay to repeat at because that's a good size for 'kingdoms'/continents/nations |
| 05:58 |
hmmmm |
maybe for the meantime i can add in the point value functions |
| 05:59 |
paramat |
i'm very keen on simplex, can't get excited for point value |
| 05:59 |
hmmmm |
the problem I have with simplex noise so far is that it seems to make a lot of tiny circles |
| 05:59 |
hmmmm |
probably just requires jiggering some parameters |
| 06:02 |
paramat |
8000 node nations means up to 64ish nations, so each player could have their own territory of 8knx8kn, assumiing a max player number of 64 |
| 06:03 |
paramat |
guess 16 players is more realistic, so 16knx16kn territories |
| 06:04 |
paramat |
^ those screenshots are simplest possible non-eased 3D noise mapgen (apart from the towers) yet it looks so good |
| 06:12 |
paramat |
so anyway hmmmm .. can i go ahead and add v5 type caves to v7? your idea of using ore veins is clever, but in practice those would need to be registered in a mod or in builtin, it's all a bit messy. i would like the cave params *in* the mapgen as with v5 |
| 06:15 |
paramat |
i can't stand this https://cdn.mediacru.sh/M/Mwa6aGDuDZZz.png any longer =P |
| 06:17 |
paramat |
interstingly the highest dark surface is at y = 46.5 |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
that's caused by problems with the lighting algorithm |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
not the caves themselves |
| 06:17 |
paramat |
yes happens with water too |
| 06:17 |
paramat |
river water |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
what i would like is a combination of v5 caves for routes and v6 large caves for caverns... |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
no lava inside the v5 cave routes |
| 06:18 |
paramat |
oh yes i forgot, large lava caverns would be as before |
| 06:18 |
paramat |
that was my plan |
| 06:18 |
paramat |
with those well below the surface chunk |
| 06:19 |
paramat |
okay will work on it, thanks |
| 06:23 |
paramat |
mmm .. but then perhaps the lava caves should be made with 3d noise too, the tricky bit is how to decide the lava level, i'll think on it |
| 06:27 |
paramat |
.. i might confine each cavern to a mapchunk+shell as before, and could re-use mountain noise as the shape noise since it's not used down there |
| 06:27 |
paramat |
oops no i cant, mountaind are optional |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
too much 3d noise |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
you should isolate the cave carving and put it into cavegen.cpp |
| 06:28 |
paramat |
okay |
| 06:29 |
paramat |
but the tunnels left in the mapgen, as in v5 |
| 06:30 |
hmmmm |
?? |
| 06:30 |
hmmmm |
oh hold on |
| 06:30 |
hmmmm |
hrmmmmm |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
CaveGenV7() can consist of CaveGenV5() + CaveGenV6() with large_cave == true |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
ermm |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
leave CaveGenV7 as it is right now, you'd only need to modify MapgenV7::generateCaves() |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
we'll just not use cavegen v7 |
| 06:35 |
paramat |
okay |
| 07:09 |
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| 07:15 |
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| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
remind me TODO: remove proller's freezemelt bullshit from read_content_features |
| 08:20 |
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| 08:43 |
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| 08:56 |
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| 09:01 |
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| 09:01 |
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| 09:10 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:19 |
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| 09:31 |
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| 09:35 |
paramat |
hmmmm also freezemelt is in lua api txt node definition line 2862 |
| 09:35 |
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| 09:42 |
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| 09:49 |
T4im |
hm.. do mods have to do something different now to support the new screwdriver, or is its multinodehandling currently bugged? |
| 10:20 |
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| 10:28 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 11:01 |
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sapier joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:08 |
est31 |
If we use certs in a smart way, we neither need signing nor server_name-like constructs |
| 11:08 |
sapier |
well a cert is always signed ;-) at least self signed ... btw that's what I mentioned yesterday ;-) |
| 11:11 |
est31 |
in fact we dont even need certs, diffie hellman with session keys is enough |
| 11:11 |
est31 |
only need to make sure we have some sort of channel binding |
| 11:11 |
est31 |
(im now speaking about the "rogue server" attack) |
| 11:11 |
sapier |
no it's not enough |
| 11:11 |
est31 |
why not |
| 11:12 |
sapier |
because it's only gonna protect this single connection and wont provide any improvement for future connects |
| 11:13 |
est31 |
and what is the attack? we have channel binding |
| 11:13 |
est31 |
so no relayed login possible |
| 11:13 |
sapier |
user connects to server a |
| 11:13 |
sapier |
some time passes |
| 11:14 |
sapier |
user connects to server a ... which now is server b ... how could user ever find out server b is not a prior having a fully established connection? |
| 11:14 |
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| 11:15 |
sapier |
using certs verifying a server you try to connect against a already known cert would solve this |
| 11:15 |
est31 |
is not a prior? |
| 11:15 |
sapier |
ONLY for future attempts of course |
| 11:16 |
sapier |
with prior I mean prior username and more importand passwd/hash transmission |
| 11:16 |
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cib0 joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:17 |
est31 |
so you mean server b acts as client for server a using another username? |
| 11:17 |
sapier |
for example |
| 11:18 |
sapier |
a simple proxy |
| 11:18 |
est31 |
but the user can't login as same username, as the server b doesn't know the password |
| 11:19 |
sapier |
there's one problem with security, ONE leak is enough to render every further atempt useless ;-) |
| 11:19 |
est31 |
and there is channel binding |
| 11:19 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 11:19 |
sapier |
server b would still get username and password hash |
| 11:19 |
sapier |
as client wouldn't even know he's connecting to wrong server |
| 11:20 |
est31 |
we could use SRP, which seems to give only one attempt |
| 11:20 |
sapier |
user would recognize once having joined and beeing in completely wrong world |
| 11:20 |
est31 |
username is no secret |
| 11:20 |
sapier |
we could but why should we build our own mechanism if there are exisiting ones? |
| 11:21 |
est31 |
storing certs still give you problems |
| 11:21 |
sapier |
username is not a secret but still nice to know for rouge servers |
| 11:21 |
sapier |
you'd get at least a list of validated users worth to attack |
| 11:21 |
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| 11:21 |
est31 |
when I connect to servers.minetest.net/list, I currently see almost all users connected to minetest servers |
| 11:21 |
Calinou |
world downloading is possible, so several servers could have the same world :P |
| 11:22 |
Calinou |
and same mod set |
| 11:22 |
sapier |
well so user may not even recognize immediatly he's in wrong world |
| 11:22 |
sapier |
serverlist shows usernames? |
| 11:22 |
est31 |
not in the gui |
| 11:23 |
est31 |
but in the json file |
| 11:23 |
est31 |
and on the html page too |
| 11:23 |
sapier |
grrr once you don't check every commit ppl add crap like this |
| 11:23 |
Calinou |
you can find it on servers.minetest.net |
| 11:23 |
est31 |
when you hover over the srv name |
| 11:23 |
Calinou |
it is useful, to find people |
| 11:23 |
sapier |
exactly ... even those ppl who don't want it |
| 11:23 |
Calinou |
however servers.minetest.net/list shouldn't show it, as the information isn't shown (waste of bandwidth) |
| 11:23 |
Calinou |
it's a widely accepted feature in games |
| 11:23 |
sapier |
and there's not setting to disable it |
| 11:23 |
Calinou |
use a fakename if you don't want to be found |
| 11:24 |
est31 |
ok that's an argument for certs |
| 11:24 |
sapier |
that's just a workaround a sane way to do it make a client tell server "I don't want you to spread my online state" like it's been common until facebook |
| 11:24 |
est31 |
but still you need a good way to distinguish it in the gui |
| 11:24 |
Calinou |
a client-side setting to hide you from user list would be good |
| 11:25 |
Calinou |
but don't remove all usernames |
| 11:25 |
Calinou |
finding people can come extremely helpful at times |
| 11:25 |
sfan5 |
friendly reminder: this is just a game, not a banking application |
| 11:25 |
est31 |
^ |
| 11:26 |
est31 |
I esp. think its quite weird people freak out that other ppl can see their online status but when fb or whatsapp sees it and shares it with marketing corps nobody cares |
| 11:26 |
sapier |
sfan5 if this was a banking app we'd have to talk about verified certs including secure infrastructure for generation too ;-) |
| 11:26 |
sfan5 |
sapier: we were already talking about certs yesterday |
| 11:26 |
sapier |
right now we're more about talking a mechanism similar to ssh where a servers fingerprint is verified once you did an initial connect |
| 11:27 |
sapier |
and yes ssh uses certs too ;-) |
| 11:27 |
sapier |
self signed one |
| 11:27 |
sapier |
s |
| 11:27 |
est31 |
signing (by CA or similar mech, not self-) is only neccessary when the cert maps to a name |
| 11:28 |
sapier |
imho we don't need a ca as we don't have a way to establish a chain of trust anyway |
| 11:28 |
sapier |
trust is established on user accepting a certain server |
| 11:28 |
est31 |
I also think we dont need cas. |
| 11:29 |
sfan5 |
I also think we don't need any of this certificate stuff. |
| 11:29 |
sapier |
the only thing we could make sure is that once a server is known user will be warned if something is strane |
| 11:29 |
sapier |
strange |
| 11:29 |
sapier |
better suggestions on how to get done what I just said? |
| 11:29 |
est31 |
you need to show in the gui whether a server is known or not |
| 11:30 |
est31 |
I'm still for diffie-hellman + srp + channel binding |
| 11:30 |
|
ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:30 |
est31 |
no certs involved |
| 11:30 |
sapier |
"Connecting to not yet known server <name/IP> are you sure?" + "Server <name/IP> chnaged identification do you really wanna connect?" |
| 11:31 |
sapier |
that's not gonna provide any integrity between different connections |
| 11:31 |
est31 |
and when the list features another server with the same name, just with a typo? |
| 11:31 |
sapier |
it's almost as useless as now |
| 11:31 |
sapier |
then you're warned about a new server! |
| 11:31 |
sapier |
everytime the id changes you're told about it |
| 11:32 |
sapier |
of course I know ppl tend to ignore those messages but there's not much more we can do without damaging freedom of minetest |
| 11:33 |
est31 |
I dont think the gain is that large its a game after all |
| 11:33 |
T4im |
why are you concerned about servers impostering other servers? |
| 11:33 |
sapier |
well if there's no gain then leave it the way it is |
| 11:33 |
sapier |
I'm against establishing a new login mechanism without doing it right this time |
| 11:33 |
T4im |
in the modern open source games based on q3 you generate clientcerts as well... makes any binding onto a name unimportant until a client decides to /register the nick there… the whole concept of passwords in minetest is actually quite an odd one compared to that... (I thought when starting minetest, that it was a pw for private servers you only get in with invitation) |
| 11:34 |
est31 |
no nowadays you can set up a server, get people logged in, and then use their hashes to log in at other servers and cause harm |
| 11:34 |
T4im |
evolved from the originally proprietary cd-key to unique ID's and then to client certs |
| 11:34 |
est31 |
I think there is no way of doing it 100% right |
| 11:34 |
sapier |
t4im how are client certs supposed to work if you connect from different machines? |
| 11:34 |
T4im |
you transfer your "qkey" in that case |
| 11:35 |
sapier |
so it's basically a big long stored PASSWORD ;-) |
| 11:35 |
T4im |
well a stored secret |
| 11:35 |
sfan5 |
T4im: "that it was a pw for private servers you only get in with invitation" the password field can also work that way when it's the first time you sign into a server |
| 11:35 |
T4im |
but one that is not send to servers |
| 11:35 |
sapier |
not sure if I'd consider this to be an advancement ;-) |
| 11:36 |
T4im |
it added however also an identifiable mark against banned troublemakers :) |
| 11:36 |
T4im |
additional to ip and name |
| 11:36 |
sapier |
est31 true there's no way to get everything done but imho we should do everything we already know about |
| 11:37 |
sapier |
and if you're already implementing something as complicated as you suggest the self generated certs wont make a significant difference ;-) |
| 11:38 |
est31 |
I'm happy with any progress, as long as it happens |
| 11:39 |
sapier |
well unless you do it ;-) nothing s gonna happen. I have up implementing security to minetest long ago, there's to many ppl opposing to it |
| 11:39 |
sapier |
minetest is almost like a trojan ;-) |
| 11:40 |
sapier |
the only thing missing is client side lua ;- |
| 11:40 |
sapier |
) |
| 11:40 |
* T4im |
feels a cold chill |
| 11:41 |
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| 11:41 |
sapier |
well that's the reason why client side lua was not done by now. If this is added it has to be right at first try. We're not gonna accept a "let's implement security later" commit for this |
| 11:42 |
T4im |
thank you, whole heartedly for that decision ;) |
| 11:42 |
est31 |
thx too |
| 11:43 |
Zeno` |
Have we decided what "client side lua" actually is now? ;) |
| 11:43 |
Zeno` |
There seemed to be some confusion the other day |
| 11:44 |
Zeno` |
Some people thought it meant "the server will automatically send some Lua to the client to execute". I've always thought it meant being able to write mods for the client |
| 11:44 |
sapier |
it's "server sends lua to client" |
| 11:45 |
sapier |
mods on client don't make any sense |
| 11:45 |
Zeno` |
sure they do |
| 11:45 |
sfan5 |
it's both |
| 11:45 |
sapier |
for what zeno? |
| 11:45 |
Zeno` |
lots of things; modifying HUD, custom formspecs, custom bindings, etc etc etc etc |
| 11:45 |
sfan5 |
^ |
| 11:46 |
sapier |
no you can't do things like that |
| 11:46 |
est31 |
or a "stored passwords" mod |
| 11:46 |
sapier |
hud as well as formspec data as well as evaluation is always done on server side |
| 11:46 |
sapier |
the only thing you could do is writing a bot |
| 11:47 |
est31 |
write a bot using lua. you can already now write a bot |
| 11:47 |
sapier |
and sfan5 no it's not both, as those tasks are completely different |
| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
of course you can |
| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
I run a modified client |
| 11:48 |
Zeno` |
I'd rather use mods to do that instead of changing the client's source code :/ |
| 11:48 |
sapier |
Zeno good luck on different mods |
| 11:48 |
Zeno` |
different mods? |
| 11:48 |
sapier |
mods may expect clients not to mess around with their formspecs so if your client does good luck ;-) |
| 11:48 |
Zeno` |
how is HUD done server-side? |
| 11:49 |
sapier |
hud element data is stored on server |
| 11:49 |
sapier |
as well as position and type |
| 11:49 |
sapier |
server tells client what exactly to be shown |
| 11:49 |
Zeno` |
this is what I meant the other day by separating the client from the server much more than it is right now |
| 11:49 |
Zeno` |
sapier, but please read the logs (this was already discussed) |
| 11:49 |
Zeno` |
I think 2 days ago? |
| 11:50 |
Zeno` |
Add to the discussion if necessary, of course |
| 11:50 |
sapier |
well if you guys did have a look at the pull requests you'd have recognized that separation of hud is already done |
| 11:50 |
Zeno` |
yeah, I used that as an example only :p |
| 11:50 |
sapier |
I did this about a year ago |
| 11:51 |
sapier |
still it's gonna break everything so it's not gonna be added anytime soon ;-) |
| 11:51 |
Zeno` |
Server sending arbitrary code to client to execute != client-side modding! |
| 11:51 |
sapier |
sfan5 said it's same not me |
| 11:51 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 11:51 |
sfan5 |
i said client-side mods is both |
| 11:52 |
sapier |
(12:45:10) sfan5: it's both |
| 11:52 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
| 11:52 |
Zeno` |
It's a terminology issue but they are two different things so there needs to be the distinction |
| 11:52 |
sfan5 |
both != same |
| 11:52 |
Zeno` |
do we have server side modding yet? |
| 11:52 |
sapier |
we've been talking about "client side lua" that term was only for server sending code to client to be executed by now |
| 11:52 |
Zeno` |
Does that mean the client can send the server arbitrary code to execute? Of course not |
| 11:52 |
T4im |
NaCL could provide you with a good client side sandboxing… amanieu started porting unvanquished from qvm to it too a while back |
| 11:53 |
T4im |
haven't checked on them latly, so not sure how it stands, but I guess its still better than something custom made |
| 11:53 |
sapier |
t4im ... no |
| 11:53 |
Zeno` |
So, let's just decide two different terms for the two different thing. Please :) |
| 11:53 |
sapier |
we're not gonna add another programming language |
| 11:53 |
T4im |
not talking about language |
| 11:53 |
est31 |
NaCL is not a language |
| 11:53 |
est31 |
its for binary code |
| 11:54 |
T4im |
you could write it to execute lua |
| 11:54 |
sapier |
for what reason? |
| 11:54 |
T4im |
sandboxing |
| 11:54 |
est31 |
basically it can be used for sandboxing |
| 11:54 |
sapier |
guys this is a freetime project we're not gonna spend months of development for a small piece ;-) |
| 11:54 |
Zeno` |
If we don't get the terminology for this correct and objective then there is going to be a big mess IMO |
| 11:54 |
sapier |
or did you volonteer to do this? |
| 11:55 |
sapier |
client side lua == server sending lua code |
| 11:55 |
Zeno` |
what is server side lua? |
| 11:55 |
sapier |
client side modding == well ... lua bots, graphical changes things like that |
| 11:55 |
Zeno` |
this is what I mean. That definition makes no sense |
| 11:55 |
sapier |
-server + client sorry .. |
| 11:55 |
sapier |
wait |
| 11:55 |
sapier |
what are you telling I didn't write server side lua |
| 11:56 |
sapier |
CLIENT SIDE LUA!!! |
| 11:56 |
T4im |
sapier: well, the suggestion was partly with the idea, that it is faster to use an existing sandboxing technology that is activly developed than write your own |
| 11:56 |
Zeno` |
I'm saying that using your definition (of client-side Lua) that server side Lua would mean the client sending code to the server to execute |
| 11:56 |
sapier |
only if there are ppl having experience with that technology and if it's fitting the overall application design t4im |
| 11:57 |
sapier |
I don't know anything about nacl ... except it's beeing salt |
| 11:57 |
sapier |
exactly and we don't have server side lua zeno |
| 11:57 |
sapier |
we have server side mods |
| 11:57 |
Zeno` |
ok, so we should have client side mods |
| 11:58 |
Zeno` |
and *then* some other term for the server sending Lua for the client to execute |
| 11:58 |
sapier |
if you're gonna implement it you're free to do but to me there's almost no use for them |
| 11:58 |
Zeno` |
they're both related but very distinct |
| 11:58 |
sapier |
no zeno |
| 11:58 |
Zeno` |
yes sapier |
| 11:58 |
sapier |
because client side lua would solve tons of issues we have due to lag |
| 11:59 |
Zeno` |
but why should the /server/ send that Lua to the client? |
| 11:59 |
sapier |
the only thing they might have in common is their language ... if that's enough minetest is same as samba |
| 11:59 |
Zeno` |
that's not a "mod"; it's... I dunno... a "plugin" or something |
| 11:59 |
sapier |
e.g. to make client predict what happens on digging a special node |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
So have these things as part of the client already |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
no need for Lua at all |
| 12:00 |
sapier |
no we don't |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
So make these thing part of* |
| 12:00 |
sapier |
we can't |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
why not? |
| 12:00 |
sapier |
we'll never know what mods may want to do on digging a node |
| 12:00 |
Zeno` |
How can sending code for the client to run get around that? |
| 12:01 |
sapier |
so you just suggested client side lua ;P |
| 12:01 |
Zeno` |
I asked a question :p |
| 12:01 |
sapier |
e.g. you could tell client to execute some lua code on dig |
| 12:02 |
sapier |
that code would check for which node has been digged and act like this |
| 12:02 |
Zeno` |
yeah, and why does that need to be Lua? |
| 12:02 |
sapier |
you can make it javascript too |
| 12:02 |
sapier |
or c# |
| 12:02 |
sapier |
or java |
| 12:02 |
Zeno` |
no, no, no... why does the server have to send that code? |
| 12:02 |
est31 |
or llvm bytecode |
| 12:02 |
est31 |
because its customized |
| 12:02 |
sapier |
but I guess it'd be helfull to use same language as the mods itself are written |
| 12:03 |
sapier |
because mods are on server |
| 12:03 |
Zeno` |
I do understand what you're saying, I'm just suggesting that there needs to be two different terms |
| 12:03 |
Zeno` |
because they're different |
| 12:03 |
sapier |
guys could you pleas get known to mintests architechture? |
| 12:03 |
Zeno` |
sapier, I'm pretty sure I know it very well now |
| 12:03 |
sapier |
argh |
| 12:04 |
sapier |
ok I'm defining: HANS == lua mods on server |
| 12:04 |
sapier |
OTTO = server sending lua code to client |
| 12:04 |
Zeno` |
and the third? |
| 12:04 |
sapier |
and ZEUS == lua mods run on client only |
| 12:04 |
Zeno` |
Ok, nice |
| 12:04 |
sapier |
enough terms now? |
| 12:04 |
Zeno` |
can you add that to the dev wiki? |
| 12:04 |
sapier |
so we already have HANS |
| 12:04 |
sapier |
and I think OTTO would help |
| 12:05 |
sapier |
but I see no valuable use for ZEUS |
| 12:05 |
Zeno` |
you are underestimating ZEUS |
| 12:05 |
sapier |
possible proove me wrong |
| 12:05 |
Zeno` |
could the client cache OTTO code? |
| 12:05 |
sapier |
no |
| 12:05 |
sapier |
well |
| 12:05 |
sapier |
not between connections |
| 12:05 |
sapier |
OTTO code is transmitted on login |
| 12:06 |
Zeno` |
that's a minor detail |
| 12:06 |
Zeno` |
if the client and the server both know the OTTO code, why would the server have to retransmit it? |
| 12:06 |
sapier |
no it's not because if you want to cache OTTO code over different connections you need server identity again |
| 12:06 |
Zeno` |
Why not say "I'm not going to connect you because your OTTO is incorrect! Go here ... to update it!"? |
| 12:07 |
est31 |
why not make it like the graphics? store them by their hashes? |
| 12:07 |
sapier |
because you don't know if OTTO has to be updated or not |
| 12:07 |
Zeno` |
The server does thoug |
| 12:07 |
Zeno` |
so it sends that message |
| 12:07 |
sapier |
hashes beeing most time as long as code itself? |
| 12:07 |
est31 |
thats the issue |
| 12:08 |
sapier |
if code size really becomes an issue we can still add caching in first step it's most likely not gonna be added |
| 12:09 |
est31 |
^ |
| 12:10 |
sapier |
it's meant for small code pieces ... well I know about ppl usually abusing things in ways they're not meant to be used ;-) |
| 12:10 |
Zeno` |
Are there examples of other games doing this? |
| 12:10 |
sapier |
still getting this feature correct with secure enough sandboxing is hard enough for first try |
| 12:11 |
sapier |
zeno none I know about. Minetests focus on extensibility is unique |
| 12:11 |
sapier |
causing a lot of trouble for us ;-) but imho it's worth it |
| 12:12 |
Zeno` |
For the server sending "execute this" fragments then some kind of byte code is probably better than Lua. That way if the client does not know what an op does it can simply not run it |
| 12:13 |
Zeno` |
It still seems strange to me, but I agree it's worth exploring |
| 12:13 |
sapier |
if you use lua bytecode it's still executed and if you reinvent the wheel you're way to limited |
| 12:13 |
Zeno` |
I didn't say lua bytecode ;) |
| 12:13 |
Zeno` |
isn't being limited the idea? |
| 12:13 |
sapier |
own bytecode is crap we don't wanna invent another language ... formspec was silly enough |
| 12:14 |
sapier |
we're not gonna make this mistake again |
| 12:14 |
sfan5 |
let's use XML |
| 12:14 |
Zeno` |
javascript and activeX were big mistakes IMO |
| 12:14 |
sapier |
<<looking for something to throw at sfan5 |
| 12:14 |
sfan5 |
:D |
| 12:14 |
sfan5 |
XML sucks |
| 12:15 |
sapier |
no just because of starting another endless discussion |
| 12:15 |
Zeno` |
ok, who is implementing this "server sends stuff to client" stuff? |
| 12:16 |
sapier |
mods are written in lua so why should we make modders write half of their stuff in one the other part in another language? |
| 12:16 |
Zeno` |
IMO there needs to be a plan |
| 12:16 |
Zeno` |
a documented plan |
| 12:16 |
sapier |
noone zeno |
| 12:16 |
Zeno` |
not something pretty much ad-hoc like IRC conversations |
| 12:16 |
sapier |
that's not the way minetest works |
| 12:16 |
sapier |
if someone sometimes has fun to do it it's gonna be done ;-) |
| 12:17 |
Zeno` |
I know that, but something like this has so many (potential) issues and things that might be confusing |
| 12:17 |
sapier |
that one will have it done and then everyone is against it and it's gonna be rewritten at least twice |
| 12:17 |
sapier |
if that one didn't give up by that time it may eventually be merged |
| 12:18 |
Zeno` |
like formspecs? |
| 12:18 |
Zeno` |
:p |
| 12:19 |
sapier |
well formspecs got to a point where replacing them is about 2 months of full time development |
| 12:19 |
sapier |
client side lua is way less |
| 12:20 |
Zeno` |
client side execution of server sent arbitrary code (CSESSAC) you mean? |
| 12:20 |
sapier |
hmm actually I already have most pieces of a prototype here ;-) I'm just to lazy to do the final parts and do the fighting right now |
| 12:20 |
sapier |
OTTO |
| 12:20 |
Zeno` |
CSESAC! |
| 12:21 |
sapier |
noone can say that |
| 12:21 |
Zeno` |
I can |
| 12:21 |
sapier |
and typing is even worth |
| 12:21 |
sapier |
worse |
| 12:21 |
sapier |
hmm let me guess you're czech? :-) |
| 12:22 |
Zeno` |
Australian |
| 12:22 |
sapier |
thoght there's been spoken english when I was there last time |
| 12:22 |
Zeno` |
I pronounce it see-ess-eee-ess-ess-a-see |
| 12:23 |
sapier |
crazy ... but it's already been defined to be OTTI |
| 12:23 |
sapier |
OTTO |
| 12:23 |
sapier |
;-P your fault you wanted terms |
| 12:23 |
sapier |
and everyone knows never make ME choose names ... now you know why |
| 12:24 |
Zeno` |
well, it might be easier to remember "OTTO" if you have a logo to associate with it |
| 12:24 |
sapier |
still first thing I'm gonna do now is switch android build to latest openssl |
| 12:26 |
est31 |
why is openssl a dep?? |
| 12:27 |
est31 |
and only for android |
| 12:27 |
sapier |
because android app has to provide all libs it's using |
| 12:27 |
sapier |
openssl is required for curl |
| 12:27 |
est31 |
ah ok |
| 12:27 |
sapier |
which is required for fetching serverlist |
| 12:28 |
est31 |
and media? |
| 12:29 |
sapier |
media can be fetched by internal minetest protocol too and usually media servers don't use https so there we could use curl without ssl |
| 12:29 |
est31 |
so curl also compiles without openssl when you dont need https |
| 12:30 |
sapier |
if it's configured that way yes |
| 12:31 |
est31 |
cool |
| 12:31 |
est31 |
there is an srp impl under the MIT license where the only dep is openssl |
| 12:32 |
est31 |
no libgmp |
| 12:32 |
est31 |
https://github.com/cocagne/csrp |
| 12:33 |
sapier |
9th october 2013 doesn't seem to be alive? |
| 12:47 |
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| 12:52 |
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| 13:49 |
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| 13:56 |
Zeno` |
So many pull requests |
| 13:57 |
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| 13:58 |
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| 14:15 |
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| 14:20 |
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| 14:55 |
Krock |
erm. since when is the status ber in the middle? |
| 14:55 |
Krock |
*bar, not beer |
| 14:58 |
Zeno` |
the what? |
| 15:00 |
Krock |
the thing which appears when you enable/disable free_move, noclip etc |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
dunno |
| 15:05 |
Krock |
"Center status text for better visibility. " Zeno- committed 5 days ago |
| 15:05 |
Krock |
ah okay |
| 15:06 |
Zeno` |
is there something wrong with it? |
| 15:07 |
Krock |
no, just wondered why it's centered now |
| 15:10 |
Zeno` |
I might revert that actually |
| 15:11 |
Krock |
it's good this way |
| 15:11 |
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| 15:11 |
Zeno` |
It's hard to say. I like it a lot at first but now I'm not sure. It's not really a big deal though |
| 15:11 |
gregorycu |
Yoyoyo |
| 15:11 |
Zeno` |
hi gcu |
| 15:11 |
gregorycu |
Hi there |
| 15:12 |
gregorycu |
I'm in bali |
| 15:12 |
gregorycu |
Lack of coding is making me crazy. How did the release go? |
| 15:12 |
sfan5 |
good |
| 15:13 |
Zeno` |
As smooth as a piece of sandpaper |
| 15:13 |
sfan5 |
except we still don't have msvc builds |
| 15:13 |
gregorycu |
That sounds wonderful |
| 15:13 |
gregorycu |
That sounds less wonderful |
| 15:13 |
Krock |
using indev builds is not disallowed |
| 15:13 |
gregorycu |
Is that a problem? |
| 15:14 |
Zeno` |
huh? |
| 15:14 |
gregorycu |
I mean, do we need msvc release builds? |
| 15:14 |
Zeno` |
MSVC version can still be built |
| 15:14 |
Zeno` |
someone just has to do it |
| 15:14 |
Krock |
nah, not needed |
| 15:14 |
gregorycu |
No need for msvc over mingw |
| 15:14 |
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| 15:16 |
gregorycu |
Something to consider down the track is adding certain C++11 features |
| 15:16 |
Zeno` |
can't |
| 15:16 |
gregorycu |
For that, having msvc builds would be very handy |
| 15:16 |
gregorycu |
Why not? |
| 15:17 |
Zeno` |
not all compilers we support/target support C++11 |
| 15:17 |
gregorycu |
Doesn't have to be the full feature set |
| 15:17 |
Zeno` |
e.g. the compilers in some Linux LTS distros do not have a C++11 compliant compiler |
| 15:18 |
gregorycu |
Lts? |
| 15:18 |
Zeno` |
no, but the compiler must support the basics ;) |
| 15:18 |
Zeno` |
Long Term Support |
| 15:18 |
gregorycu |
Indeed |
| 15:19 |
gregorycu |
I try someone has done a CBA of supporting these distros? |
| 15:19 |
gregorycu |
Trust |
| 15:19 |
Zeno` |
CBA? :) |
| 15:20 |
Zeno` |
I think most of them will be EOL soon... I guess I can compile a list |
| 15:20 |
gregorycu |
Cost benefit analysis |
| 15:21 |
gregorycu |
Aka: is it worth it |
| 15:22 |
Zeno` |
Oh, nah. Nobody has done that but there are lots of VPSs that offer (for example) Centos6 :/ |
| 15:23 |
Zeno` |
I think 2017 is a bit too much even for a LTS though |
| 15:24 |
Zeno` |
I'll do some research |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
how about adding an option to disable C++11 features? |
| 15:26 |
gregorycu |
What would that mean? |
| 15:26 |
gregorycu |
I didn't express that well |
| 15:27 |
gregorycu |
There are two facets to C++11 |
| 15:27 |
gregorycu |
Language and library |
| 15:28 |
gregorycu |
Adding an option to disable C++ language features means double implementing things |
| 15:28 |
celeron55 |
lol that's nonsense |
| 15:28 |
gregorycu |
Yes |
| 15:28 |
gregorycu |
It is |
| 15:29 |
sfan5 |
i think freeminer does that |
| 15:29 |
gregorycu |
Library may be easier but... |
| 15:29 |
gregorycu |
It's not worth the effort |
| 15:29 |
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| 15:29 |
celeron55 |
my standing is that MT is free to start using C++11 this year; the features that are available in debian stable's GCC |
| 15:30 |
celeron55 |
unless someone can come up with a good explanation why not |
| 15:30 |
gregorycu |
Well |
| 15:30 |
celeron55 |
supporting some ridiculous 1990-to-2017 LTS distro is not a good reason |
| 15:30 |
celeron55 |
msvc2008 is not a good reason |
| 15:31 |
celeron55 |
freebsd's ancient built-in compiler is not a good reason |
| 15:31 |
gregorycu |
I agree with celeron |
| 15:31 |
celeron55 |
something else could be |
| 15:31 |
gregorycu |
With a cavet |
| 15:32 |
gregorycu |
There are quite a few compilers out there missing C++11 features |
| 15:32 |
Zeno` |
it's 2011-2017 (6 year LTS support) |
| 15:32 |
gregorycu |
Msvc comes to mind |
| 15:32 |
Kray |
why'd you use ancient msvc |
| 15:32 |
gregorycu |
Not ancient |
| 15:32 |
Zeno` |
What is a good reason *to* support c++11? |
| 15:32 |
gregorycu |
Latest |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:33 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, does the public server list keep track of server OS? |
| 15:33 |
gregorycu |
Latest msvc is missing c++11 features and I know mingw was lagging gcc in terms of feature set |
| 15:33 |
Zeno` |
it'd be nice to make a decision based on data rather than opinion |
| 15:33 |
gregorycu |
Not idea what the story is thesedays |
| 15:33 |
Zeno` |
mingw is *way* behind |
| 15:33 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: it's a much better language then c++03; this cannot be explained to anyone unless they personally try it and get used to it |
| 15:34 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: so get on to that now if you want to know the answer |
| 15:34 |
gregorycu |
I say this politely |
| 15:34 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, but... who is refactoring the code to use C++11 stuff? |
| 15:34 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: mingw is behind? what? it's GCC, you can get mingw 4.9 easily and it has basically absolutely everything |
| 15:34 |
gregorycu |
If you don't know the answer to that question, you've not used C++11 |
| 15:34 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: nobody; it's a backwards-compatible language |
| 15:34 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, mingw != gcc |
| 15:35 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: i have been using the useful parts of C++11 for two years now and mingw has never been an issue |
| 15:35 |
Zeno` |
what is the gcc bundled with the latest mingw? |
| 15:35 |
gregorycu |
I'll be back in a little while |
| 15:36 |
Zeno` |
something from 2013 by the looks of it |
| 15:36 |
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| 15:37 |
Zeno` |
make that 2010 |
| 15:37 |
Zeno` |
err, sorry, 2013 |
| 15:38 |
Zeno` |
so hardly any C++11 features :( |
| 15:40 |
Zeno` |
none that I'd trust anyway. Needs more research |
| 15:41 |
Zeno` |
I'm not sure if it's "experimental" or not |
| 15:42 |
Zeno` |
"GCC provides experimental support for the 2011 ISO C++ standard." "Since this standard has only recently been completed, the feature set provided by the experimental C++11 mode may vary greatly from one GCC version to another. No attempts will be made to preserve backward compatibility with C++11 features whose semantics have changed during the course of C++11 standardization." |
| 15:42 |
Zeno` |
Not really sure I like the sound of that |
| 15:42 |
Kray |
where are you reading this |
| 15:42 |
Zeno` |
https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.8/cxx0x_status.html |
| 15:43 |
Kray |
that text is obsolete |
| 15:43 |
Kray |
look at the table |
| 15:43 |
Zeno` |
gcc 4.8.1 is the gcc bundled with mingw |
| 15:44 |
Zeno` |
I am. It's in experimental |
| 15:44 |
Kray |
there's also C++14 already https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx1y.html |
| 15:45 |
Zeno` |
not with mingw there isn't |
| 15:46 |
Zeno` |
Relying on features that are experimental for mingw could quite possibly lead to some very hard to find bugs or undefined behaviour or who knows what... |
| 15:47 |
Zeno` |
I guess we could drop support for mingw |
| 15:49 |
celeron55 |
lol |
| 15:49 |
celeron55 |
it's obvious from how and what you speak that you have never even tried using C++11 with mingw |
| 15:50 |
celeron55 |
it works pretty much flawlessly as far as i am concerned |
| 15:51 |
Zeno` |
I'm not sure why they have that disclaimer then |
| 15:52 |
Zeno` |
#1959 <--- is that caused by mingw? |
| 15:52 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1959 -- Checking public serverlist checkbox causes minetest to freeze. |
| 15:53 |
Zeno` |
because with TDM and latest versions of gcc it's impossible to reproduce. It can only be reproduced using mingw |
| 15:53 |
gregorycu |
Strangely enough, I think we need to test and see for ourself |
| 15:54 |
Zeno` |
And that is what I'm talking about when I say "hard to find bugs" |
| 15:54 |
gregorycu |
And the time to think about these things is at the start of a release cycle |
| 15:54 |
Zeno` |
Is it the code's fault or the compilers fault? |
| 15:54 |
gregorycu |
But that was C±±03 |
| 15:54 |
Zeno` |
Yes, but still an old version of gcc |
| 15:55 |
gregorycu |
I can't do the analysis here, but surely mingw isn't that bad |
| 15:56 |
Zeno` |
It's not. It just has an old version of gcc |
| 15:56 |
gregorycu |
I mean for c++11 support |
| 15:56 |
gregorycu |
I know it doesn't match gcc |
| 15:56 |
Zeno` |
The problem, for me, is that the C++11 support in that version of gcc is "experimental" |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
So whether it works or not is... well... I dunno |
| 15:57 |
gregorycu |
But I'm struggling to believe it's so far behind |
| 15:57 |
Kray |
the text is completely obsolete |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
Kray, how? |
| 15:57 |
Kray |
there is nothing "experimental" with gcc's c++11 support |
| 15:57 |
gregorycu |
Not gcc |
| 15:57 |
gregorycu |
Mingw |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
Kray, I am talking about the version of gcc bundled with mingw |
| 15:57 |
Kray |
gcc is mingw |
| 15:57 |
gregorycu |
No. It's not. |
| 15:58 |
gregorycu |
Mingw lags behind gcc's feature set |
| 15:58 |
gregorycu |
Anyway |
| 15:58 |
Zeno` |
the gcc version in mingw has not been updated since 2013 |
| 15:58 |
gregorycu |
I think there should be a discussion at least |
| 15:59 |
celeron55 |
it basically uses the same codebase and just leaves out some platform-specific things |
| 15:59 |
celeron55 |
all the language features work just the same |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:00 |
gregorycu |
People are switching to clang... Just another variable. |
| 16:00 |
Zeno` |
I wonder why there has been updates to gcc since 2013 then |
| 16:00 |
Zeno` |
if it's all "the same" they should have just stopped updating |
| 16:01 |
hmmmm |
the worst part about developing minetest is that you can't play it without thinking "damn, I need to fix that" |
| 16:01 |
hmmmm |
I'm going to add a Settings button to the pause menu and it's going to have a single tab with a single checkbox that says "fullscreen" |
| 16:02 |
hmmmm |
filling the rest of it in is up to everybody else |
| 16:02 |
gregorycu |
On this topic, it may be worth considering making clang the supported compiler on Windows |
| 16:02 |
gregorycu |
Instead of gcc |
| 16:02 |
gregorycu |
Pool time |
| 16:04 |
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hmmmm |
pool time, huh. |
| 17:04 |
hmmmm |
over where i am it's snowing, the exact opposite of pool time |
| 17:05 |
hmmmm |
btw is anybody around right now? |
| 17:05 |
shadowzone |
I am here |
| 17:05 |
hmmmm |
anybody who uses schematics from files |
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hmmmm |
:/ |
| 18:23 |
hmmmm |
i'll just make a post on the forum about it |
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| 21:46 |
sapier |
hello, does anyone own a android mips device? |
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| 22:19 |
ShadowNinja |
Comments on #1952? |
| 22:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1952 -- Use the console instead of a dedicated window when pressing chat/command keys by ShadowNinja |
| 22:20 |
ShadowNinja |
Curent ones are mositive, but there are no dev comments. |
| 22:20 |
sapier |
I haven't tried it yet but I like the idea |
| 22:20 |
ShadowNinja |
positive* |
| 22:20 |
sapier |
I'm gonna do a quick code check but I'd guess it's ok |
| 22:22 |
sapier |
hmm schouldn't a { after a if be on next line or am I mixing this up with some other project again? |
| 22:23 |
sapier |
well at least in guiChatConsole.cpp you should do it consistent for functions ;-) |
| 22:23 |
sapier |
void GUIChatConsole::closeConsoleOnEnter(bool close) { ... I always wanted to correct you Shadow ;-) |
| 22:24 |
sapier |
everything else seems to be fine |
| 22:31 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Nope, { only go on their own line for functions. |
| 22:32 |
sapier |
yes void GUIChatConsole::closeConsoleOnEnter(bool close) { is a function ;-) |
| 22:32 |
ShadowNinja |
I didn't actually write this, just rebase it a lot, but I'll check the code style now. |
| 22:33 |
sapier |
come on don't destoy my single success ;-) *joking* |
| 22:33 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yep, that's technically wrong, everything else seems good though. |
| 22:34 |
sapier |
true |
| 22:34 |
sapier |
sadly noone seems to have a android mips devices ... so I'm not gonna know if my openssl mips build works. I switched to official openssl as the android variant we've been using wasn't updated |
| 22:35 |
sapier |
but official openssl doesn't support mips |
| 22:35 |
sapier |
not sure if my compiler flags are really correct ... at least build and link works fine |
| 22:35 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Can you use GnuTLS? Does that support mips? |
| 22:37 |
sapier |
I don't know if there's support for android build on gnutls |
| 22:38 |
sapier |
nor do I know how to link curl against gnutls if I remember correct it didn't work when I tried it ... so I used openssl which did work. could've been a minor error or some big issue, I just don't know |
| 22:39 |
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| 22:40 |
sapier |
but otherwise I don't have any preference about openssl or gnutls |
| 22:43 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: do you have any reason why to prefere gnutls to openssl? |
| 22:44 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: From what I've heard OpenSSL's API and general code quality is horrible. It also has licensing issues (although they may not apply to us). |
| 22:45 |
sapier |
licensing issues on openssl? you're kidding even my company links it to our apps and our lawyers are more then picky |
| 22:46 |
sapier |
and on the other hand openssl is used way more often and those guys are working hard to improve those issues already found |
| 22:46 |
sapier |
I'd be carefull to assume gnutls to be really better right now |
| 22:47 |
sapier |
but I'd not be surprised if it was too |
| 22:55 |
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| 23:04 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: there's one caveat about using the console for regular commands: |
| 23:05 |
VanessaE |
opening the console doesn't disable mouse panning in linux |
| 23:05 |
VanessaE |
i.e. it won't release the mouse when open, while opening the regular command line does. this is useful sometimes. |
| 23:05 |
VanessaE |
http://xkcd.com/1172/ |
| 23:05 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2043 anyone against updating to a recent version instead of a known to be bad version? |
| 23:25 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: plus copy&paste in linux needs to be completely sorted out before the console is made the only method of command entry |
| 23:32 |
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| 23:33 |
Wayward_One |
does this look like a possible memory leak to anyone? http://i.imgur.com/bYNF1nw.png |
| 23:34 |
Wayward_One |
that was taken just after closing minetest, after using 0.4.11-44-gd91559b for around 30 minutes |
| 23:34 |
sapier |
seems to be yes |
| 23:34 |
sapier |
any mods installed? |
| 23:35 |
Wayward_One |
no, i was on a server, BigPappa's Carbone |
| 23:37 |
sapier |
valgrind and windows doesn't work that well :-) |
| 23:40 |
Wayward_One |
testing again, already memory use is up from 20-ish to 75 and climbing since starting minetest and joining a server |
| 23:41 |
Wayward_One |
...percent, that is |
| 23:41 |
VanessaE |
Wayward_One: are there particle spawners in the vicinity? |
| 23:42 |
Wayward_One |
no, and i'm on a completely different server atm too |
| 23:50 |
Wayward_One |
heh, just crashed Cinnamon now, almost ran out of memory |
| 23:52 |
VanessaE |
now ya done it! ;) |
| 23:53 |
sapier |
hmm emerge thread is not cleaning up the emerge queue, but that's not your memory leak |
| 23:53 |
Wayward_One |
just after starting and joining a server: http://imgur.com/odIJPrt |
| 23:54 |
Wayward_One |
...and just after closing: http://imgur.com/hCsdZ6L |
| 23:55 |
Wayward_One |
VanessaE: yeah lol, gonna have to restart in a sec |
| 23:56 |
Wayward_One |
sapier, not sure what that means |
| 23:56 |
sapier |
means I found a memory leak but it's not yours ;-) |
| 23:56 |
Wayward_One |
ah, ok :P |
| 23:58 |
Wayward_One |
should i open an issue on github? |
| 23:58 |
sapier |
yes |
| 23:59 |
Wayward_One |
will do |
