Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-12-30

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 paramat so now get_mapgen_params and biome api changes are in i can try getting some biomes into MTgame, however since tree schems will take time to create (and schems unstable) how about i add beaches and plains biomes with grasses and flowers for now? then at least v5/v7 will look good
00:22 paramat then i'll aim to get a complete set of biomes finished, with trees, for next stable. i plan to use lua tables for tree schems, it's actually the easiest way currently
00:54 paramat left #minetest-dev
01:58 hmmmm lots of work on biomes coming up soon
02:00 hmmmm there's so much work to do on EVERYTHING
02:01 hmmmm i blew my entire christmas vacation on trying to get minetest to a happy place but it still needs work to get there
02:02 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
02:25 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/ca89e63b27a2548a7615fcf4943c22f88818f6eb
02:29 shmancelot joined #minetest-dev
02:39 hmmmm hahahahaha
02:39 hmmmm on_generated has been being called with the incorrect blockpos for a very long time
02:40 hmmmm s/being//
02:40 hmmmm actually since 0.4-dev
02:42 prozacgod joined #minetest-dev
03:18 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
03:19 paramat joined #minetest-dev
03:20 paramat i'm using recent git 5e2 and can't get decorations to appear, i'm suspecting the addition of height min/max (which is very useful)
03:20 hmmmm does reverting that one make them work??
03:20 hmmmm personally they work for me...
03:22 acerspyro left #minetest-dev
03:22 paramat i see, i haven't bisected yet, hope this is my mistake
03:23 paramat discovered while testing my biomes branch is MTgame https://github.com/paramat/minetest_game/com​mit/9cafad476a036bd1cbd7401acb1f164e4abe2b23
03:23 paramat *in
03:35 paramat guess it's bisect time.. BTW people seem a little confused about your v7 vote, they don't know how extreme your proposed 'modification' will be, and some are voting yes because they would like to see v7 improved (as i would, i almost voted yes at first)
03:42 paramat personally the only reason i can see to trash v7 is if it was embarrassingly bad, which of course it isn't (indev was much much worse). seems obvious to me to have more choice and variety
03:43 paramat good thing we're not a democracy heh
03:43 hmmmm it's not going to look much the same
03:43 hmmmm let's put it that way
03:44 hmmmm the fundamental approach i took to terrain is flawed.. i used 2d noise composed with 3d noise to get nice properties of both and i ended up with the worst instead
03:45 hmmmm v5 using 3d as the base and 2d as a height factor is much better
03:46 paramat well, if it's kept i'm offering to maintain it, make improvements, and come up with alternative noiseparams for use in .conf
03:47 hmmmm offer accepted
03:47 paramat i've been playing with using the 3D noise to create floatlands throughout the atmosphere, this being the advantage of the separate 2D and 3D noises
03:47 paramat cool man
03:48 hmmmm you know the thing about mapgens is that what we consider crappy algorithms can turn out to be really awesome with the right noise parameters
03:48 hmmmm eh
03:48 hmmmm floatlands is supposed to be a realm thing
03:48 hmmmm which ties in with the biome thing
03:48 hmmmm you probably saw BIOME_TYPE_AETHER
03:48 paramat yes i keep seeing that
03:49 paramat there have been requests recently for extra 'levels' above/below
03:49 hmmmm it's probably a good idea to bump the priority of working on the biome system
03:50 paramat so of course i've been wondering if v7 aether/nether is coming
03:50 paramat ..in v7
03:50 hmmmm i haven't determined how this is going to work yet
03:51 paramat apart from the requests, i feel any new mapgen should make full use of the vertical space
03:51 hmmmm my original idea was to have aether/nether independent of the mapgen but i'm not sure that's a great idea
03:51 hmmmm so each mapgen should define a generateTerrain() for each biome type
03:52 paramat agreed they shouldn't be independant of mapgen
03:52 hmmmm the actual terrain is easy for those
03:53 paramat in my lua mapgen i keep seeing ways of just tweaking the normal realm to create stuff above and below
03:53 hmmmm it can't be too much more difficult than 2d noise * 3d noise > threshhold for aether and carve out negative space with 3d noise for nether
03:53 hmmmm finer details aside
03:54 hmmmm perhaps there should be a "default" generateTerrain() for aether/nether defined in mapgen.cpp and then each mapgen can leave it unimplemented if they don't want to do anything special
03:54 paramat yep, for a 3D noise mapgen just changing how 'noise gradient' behaves can generate all 3 types of reallm
03:55 hmmmm with all this stuff, how am I supposed to find time to work on OGL lightmaps and the emergethread disk queueing
03:55 hmmmm :/
03:55 hmmmm or what about the lua ABM context switching cleanup
03:57 paramat i don't expect you to do all these things as well, i can do the simpler / time consuming work on mapgen
03:58 hmmmm and then any of the things on the dev wiki TODO list... hah
03:58 hmmmm minetest is a full time job
03:58 paramat you know i'm the 'mapgen tea boy'
03:58 hmmmm lol
03:58 hmmmm care for a cuppa?
03:58 paramat funny i don't drink caffeine
03:59 paramat anyway here's my mapgen that does all 3 realms just by altering 'noise gradient' https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&t=10481
04:00 hmmmm tea doesn't necessarily contain caffeine, does it?
04:00 hmmmm I'm looking for a minecraft-like nether
04:00 paramat yeah more underworldy
04:01 hmmmm in any case this requires modifying light levels
04:01 hmmmm client side biome effects
04:01 hmmmm they're going to be necessary if this is to be successful
04:01 paramat i also realised adjusting how noise gradient behaves can create planets/dyson spheres/dyson cubes/tube worlds
04:01 paramat yeah lighting =P
04:02 hmmmm i'm going to add something very dangerous to the modding api that only very responsible people can use
04:03 paramat too bad i miss out
04:03 hmmmm nah, it's intended for you
04:03 hmmmm i am trying to come up with signing mechanisms
04:03 hmmmm if I don't, it WILL be abused and cause tons of crashes and people whining and moaning
04:03 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
04:04 hmmmm you probably realize what it is I'm talking about, right?
04:06 paramat signing ... mirror-image mapgens?
04:07 paramat symmetry through signing of co-ords erm..
04:07 hmmmm huh?
04:08 paramat guess not =)
04:08 hmmmm control over envlock from on_generated :p
04:08 hmmmm crazy, huh
04:08 paramat multi-threaded lua mapgen?
04:09 hmmmm that not so much, because there's still scriptlock
04:09 hmmmm just so that ServerThread doesn't hang while map is generating
04:09 hmmmm that's the #1 problem with lua mapgens
04:09 paramat yes
04:09 hmmmm here's a really easy solution.  but the dumb people
04:11 paramat this would be a more powerful form of threaded lua mapgen i guess, control over when to thread?
04:12 hmmmm the problem is that i can't think of a good way to stop other people from impersonating you
04:12 hmmmm because open source
04:13 paramat lol. well anyway that is indeed dangerous
04:13 hmmmm we can't communicate with a 3rd party server
04:13 paramat i would be happy enough with multi-threaded lua mapgen for the masses
04:14 hmmmm it's either restricted to certain people or nothing at all
04:14 hmmmm there's simply too much potential for abuse
04:14 paramat crumbs
04:15 paramat i thought it would be for everyone, c55 was considering it a priority
04:15 paramat just for LVM seemed doable
04:16 paramat anyway, if that can be done yes please
04:16 paramat if not ill do it in core
04:16 hmmmm the only safe way is to add checks !EVERYWHERE! to every single api
04:16 hmmmm ugh
04:17 hmmmm i have a solution for this actually
04:17 hmmmm alright, i can do it the safe way
04:19 paramat to be clear i have no resistence to coding core mapgen now, just haven't got around to it
04:20 paramat 'riverdev' mod is a monster and needs to be done in core
04:20 hmmmm lua mapgens are nicer because you don't need to generalize as much
04:20 paramat they are more relaxing too
04:21 paramat 'leisure coding' core is a bit stressful
04:22 paramat i like to hide away and work independantly with lua stuff, i miss it actually
04:26 hmmmm http://fpaste.org/164229/14199135/
04:26 hmmmm :p
04:26 hmmmm i'm busy for a while
04:26 paramat me too
04:32 paramat left #minetest-dev
04:58 VanessaE all right, this shit has to stop
04:58 VanessaE Minetest for windows needs a proper installer
04:58 VanessaE not this zip file shit
04:59 VanessaE I'm trying to help someone through just unzipping the file and they can't even figure out what a zip is.
05:02 hmmmm minetest might not be for them :p
05:04 VanessaE eh..
05:04 Zeno` 7z self-extracting archives are probably the easiest solutions for Windows
05:04 VanessaE Zeno`: +1
05:12 VanessaE so, what about it?
05:12 VanessaE is there some reason not to switch to that like, right now?
05:20 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
05:36 sol_invictus joined #minetest-dev
05:44 paramat joined #minetest-dev
05:47 paramat i assume if height_min and height_max are left out of a decoration definition it will still work? now bisected and commit 863379a breaks decos
05:48 paramat the biomes work okay though
05:50 hmmmm hahaha
05:51 hmmmm do you see why?  :)
05:51 hmmmm i bet it works if you specified a height_min/height_max
05:51 paramat i'll try adding that in ...
05:57 paramat erm it still doesn't work with those params in
05:59 paramat anyway that bool that triggers continue may be the error?
05:59 hmmmm how is that logically possible
06:00 hmmmm did you see this?  this is what i figured the problem is:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/b589353d89a5a5cd2dd999a13ca039079bee0ece
06:00 paramat well i can't see the error
06:00 paramat swapped
06:01 paramat oh yeah see it now
06:02 hmmmm it works for me after my fix... so
06:02 paramat will compile and test!
06:03 hmmmm oh uh oh
06:03 hmmmm i see a larger problem
06:03 hmmmm with decosimple anyway
06:08 hmmmm really need to start being more careful with naming things
06:11 paramat still doesnt work
06:17 paramat are -32000 and 32000 safe to use as height limits? i always see 31000 instead
06:18 paramat wow v7 with super-amplified 3D noise is stunning
06:18 paramat mgv7_np_mountain = 0, 16, (250, 350, 250), 5333, 5, 0.68, 2.0
06:25 paramat yes it's simple decos which don't appear for me
06:31 paramat oh there's 2 height_max parameters!
06:31 hmmmm yea
06:31 paramat good grief
06:31 hmmmm the height_min/height_max is wrong terminology
06:31 hmmmm it should be y_min/y_max
06:31 hmmmm if i do that, i'll break compatibility though!
06:32 paramat http://i.stack.imgur.com/9y9uk.gif
06:32 hmmmm i set height_max to 20 for grass and i got
06:32 hmmmm an interesting result
06:33 hmmmm also i discovered that if you cut the bottom node of one of these... grass trees... all the nodes on top will fall down
06:34 hmmmm and what's more is that the dropped items like seeds gather together if they fall on top of one another
06:34 hmmmm very convenient feature
06:35 hmmmm so I was wasting time making this http://i.imgur.com/QHkKgYT.jpg
06:48 hmmmm okay, NOW try it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/9b0d77a549e4c29c9c189ff2a454568fa9746c1e
07:09 paramat okay
07:12 paramat ah because grass is 'attached node', nice
07:27 paramat now works, thanks, big relief
07:39 paramat enough stress and excitement for one day, time to watch sci-fi anime
07:39 hmmmm you and your anime...
07:39 hmmmm is it a new show or what?
07:41 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
07:47 paramat i'm currently watching 3 series from last year. i get withdrawl symptoms with anime. the average anime is more imaginative and has better design and story than any hollywood live-action film
07:47 paramat left #minetest-dev
07:48 hmmmm i've gotta catch up on the past 3 seasons
08:30 Krock joined #minetest-dev
09:01 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
09:11 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
09:23 nore joined #minetest-dev
09:26 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
09:40 crazyR joined #minetest-dev
10:29 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
10:45 chchjesus joined #minetest-dev
11:06 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
11:08 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
11:14 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
11:18 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
11:37 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
12:19 dzho joined #minetest-dev
12:19 dzho joined #minetest-dev
12:26 exio4_ joined #minetest-dev
12:48 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
12:49 Zeno` kahrl, #2017... any reason why your gist isn't merged?
12:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2017 -- facedir > 23 causes segfault in client
12:51 Zeno` I will merge #1851 soon. Bug fix
12:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1851 -- Cleanup updateCameraDirection and fix random input not working by Zeno-
12:53 fz72 joined #minetest-dev
12:54 Zeno` Also #2026
12:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2026 -- Fix endian.h include for FreeBSD by AMDmi3
13:05 exio4 joined #minetest-dev
13:11 cib joined #minetest-dev
13:12 Zeno` comments on #1967, please
13:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1967 -- Add display_gamma option for client by Zeno-
13:16 Krock Zeno`, I'm not sure if that feature is used by regular players. Also, this could be confusing when the server uses an other light tabe and (as example) the plants won't grow
13:20 Zeno` Doesn't affect the server
13:20 Zeno` Gamma correction (and brightness and contrast, but I'm not going to do that at this point) are common game options
13:21 Zeno` the light table is a *display* value, not something used for ABMs etc
13:21 Krock Can't te screens do that?
13:21 Krock *the
13:22 Krock whatever. I'm not sure if that should be merged
13:23 T4im joined #minetest-dev
13:24 Zeno` screens?
13:24 Zeno` You want me to adjust my monitor for one game? :)
13:26 Zeno` My monitor is calibrated and I (for one) am not going to change anything on the monitor just for minetest.  Many people have complained about this simple feature being missing for a long time.  All monitors are different and this fixes that problem by letting the user set a "correction"
13:27 Zeno` It will also stop 500 #if 0  #endif variants of light_table heh
13:30 Zeno` I'm not sure why it's not easy to understand that people's monitors (and eyesight) are different :/
13:30 Zeno` and there is no one size fits all solution
13:50 Megaf Hi Zeno`
13:50 Megaf Zeno`: memory leak on server side is fixed indeed
13:50 Megaf Zeno`: but client leak is not
13:51 pitriss Zeno`: I support your set gamma patch
13:52 pitriss Zeno`: my monitor is also set up properly but I know many ppl who will find this useful
14:05 Zeno` I'm just making some changes so it's even more obvious that this (light_table) is a client thing only
14:05 Zeno` pushed
14:07 Zeno` I'll merge before I go to sleep I guess... otherwise it'll never happen
14:11 jluc joined #minetest-dev
14:13 Zeno` waiting for Travis
14:14 Krock did someone agree the merge?
14:14 Zeno` yes, pitriss
14:14 Zeno` and MegaF
14:15 Krock I thought devs must agree or am I wrong?
14:17 Zeno` Well, if that were the case nothing would ever get merged unfortunately :(
14:18 Zeno` and shadowninja kind of agreed (apart from his comment that it may affect servers, which I've now addressed... the code isn't even there for servers now)
14:18 Zeno` I'm still not sure why you're so opposed to it
14:19 Krock Okay, the range is limited and the defaults equal the current light table
14:19 Krock nothing speaks against it
14:21 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
14:24 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
14:24 Zeno` This will all become obsolete when (if?) GPU lighting is implemented anyway. When that's done there's probably no way to get the actual light value
14:25 Zeno` displayed light value*
14:31 zat joined #minetest-dev
15:01 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
15:03 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
15:09 exio4 joined #minetest-dev
15:24 roniz joined #minetest-dev
15:25 exio4 joined #minetest-dev
15:26 n4x joined #minetest-dev
15:36 werwerwer joined #minetest-dev
15:43 Ritchie hello
15:44 Ritchie Zeno`: i support your gamma patch too
15:45 Ritchie Zeno`: can i ask what monitor do you have that you said you have it calibrated?
15:46 Zeno` It's not an expensive monitor. I have 3x SyncMasterS22B300 monitors that I've calibrated with Spyder2
15:48 Ritchie i have a cheap LCD screen "ProView" but i have now a chance to buy used EIZO FlexScan F67 with low price
15:48 Zeno` But I'm not changing brightness/contrast/gamma on the monitor for the only game in existence without the ability to change those values (at least gamma) when it's an easy fix :)
15:48 Ritchie yes i agree with you
15:49 chchjesus__ joined #minetest-dev
15:49 Zeno` The EIZO is much better than a ProView
15:49 Zeno` about 1000x better probably
15:51 Ritchie http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen3350.html
15:52 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
15:52 Ritchie i bought it in university accomodation for 0.5l slivovitze:D
15:53 Ritchie -e
15:57 troller joined #minetest-dev
15:58 cib0 "We want to document most or all of Minetest core with Doxygen-style code comments. The system for extracting information from those comments is not yet ready, but once we have comments in that format, it should be relatively simple to implement. " what
15:58 cib0 "is not yet ready"?
15:59 Zeno` Tesseract, I've updated #1967 to make it completely obvious that it does not affect server stuff. Merge?
15:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1967 -- Add display_gamma option for client by Zeno-
16:00 Zeno` cib0, where did you get that quote from?
16:00 cib0 http://dev.minetest.net/Engine_documentation
16:00 Zeno` I think it's ready
16:00 Zeno` That page is probably outdated
16:00 cib0 If it is that page should probably contain a link to an online version of the docs, too. :)
16:01 cib0 "Last modified January 2013" yup
16:01 Zeno` Well, there are no online docs yet (AFAIK) but the " system for extracting information from those comments" is in place
16:02 Zeno` i.e. https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/blob/master/doc/Doxyfile.in
16:04 Zeno` Could probably do with some improvement, but at least it's in place :)
16:09 fz72 joined #minetest-dev
16:14 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
16:17 Zeno` Ok, since there are no problems I'll merge in 30 minutes
16:21 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
16:25 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
16:26 celeron55 what the hell
16:27 celeron55 yes, that page is very outdated and it gives a wrong idea about what we can accept as contributions in that area
16:28 celeron55 i added a notice to it
16:33 kaeza #minetest-doc is also dead. would it be OK to redirect here instead?
16:44 hmmmm argh
16:45 hmmmm if minetest didn't have lua modding capabilities i bet it would be half the size
16:46 VanessaE (Score:-1, Troll)
16:46 VanessaE :P
16:47 hmmmm no sarcasm here
16:47 hmmmm consider something trivial like adjustable light
16:47 hmmmm normal games just... adjust the light
16:47 VanessaE well half the size it might be, but it would also have like 1 percent of the userland activity also
16:48 hmmmm instead if minetest wants to adjust the light there needs to be:
16:48 hmmmm - a lua api to do so
16:48 hmmmm - documentation on it
16:48 hmmmm - server -> client transfer
16:48 hmmmm - actually adjusting the light
16:49 hmmmm - also a protocol version bump
16:49 mpa1212 joined #minetest-dev
16:49 VanessaE well
16:50 VanessaE consider the flipside to that code-size coin:  does the total amount of code lead to a reduction on performance, maintainability, etc.?
16:50 hmmmm then some time later modders want to do x y and z with the api so you have to maintain it
16:50 hmmmm well, it certainly decreases developer happiness
16:50 VanessaE (on performance, I mean assume a game with no mods installed)
16:51 VanessaE well, I'll grant you that :P
16:51 Brains Of course, you didn't have to implement all those things that the modders did with your api...  So, write good and popular APIs.  (If you manage to figure out how to do that repeatably, retire to a moderately sized island and invite your peers.)
16:53 hmmmm it's difficult to think of minetest as a game because of these reasons
16:53 hmmmm there's so much more overhead and it does so much more than simply 'be entertaining'
16:53 hmmmm very little focus these days on audiovisuals and graphics
16:54 hmmmm although there's lots of work that could be done there
16:54 Brains It is getting hard for even big games to be successful without modding capabilities.  *shrug*
16:54 VanessaE hmmmm: haven't I been complaining about the lack of focus on A/V for a while now? (with exceptions to what RBA has done recently)
16:54 Zeno` ahem
16:54 VanessaE and zeno :)
16:54 Zeno` :P
16:55 VanessaE (though I lumped your stuff under performance, not AV)
16:55 Zeno` fair enough I guess ;)
16:56 VanessaE hmmmm: there's two problems though - not enough coders who can do it, and not enough skills among those we have who already can.
16:56 hmmmm there's simply too much shit todo
16:56 hmmmm how long have i been wanting to add the nether
16:56 VanessaE I mean, I've seen screenshots of some seriously "next level shit" to quote Will Smith, and those things are just way WAY beyond what Minetest can do given the current skill level we have at our disposal
16:57 hmmmm 250+ commits later and i still didn't get to that
16:57 hmmmm what do you mean?
16:57 VanessaE I mean nice AV effects, shadows, bloom, etc
16:57 hmmmm oh, AV effects
16:57 VanessaE things that irrlicht itself probably can't even do
16:57 cib0 There's always a balance to be found between simplicity, flexibility and features..
16:57 hmmmm of course irrlicht can't do that
16:58 VanessaE but which, if used to proper degree would look really good in minetest
16:58 hmmmm in any case, we're right up against a wall because of irrlicht
16:58 hmmmm it's probably a smart idea to fork it and include the source
16:58 hmmmm modify that
16:58 VanessaE hmmmm: I dunno about that.....
16:58 hmmmm really.
16:59 hmmmm it's either that or start using raw opengl
16:59 VanessaE honestly?  that's a better idea imho
16:59 hmmmm you don't work with any of this though
16:59 VanessaE yeah I know
16:59 hmmmm how could you believe your opinion holds a lot of weight
16:59 VanessaE but my point is, what happens if by some miracle irrlicht actually develops along similar lines as you're proposing maintaining in your own fork?
17:00 hmmmm awesome stuff, but that won't happen
17:00 VanessaE do you switch back to mainline?
17:00 hmmmm irrlicht is optimized for typical "game" games
17:00 hmmmm and there's nothing preventing us from contributing back
17:00 hmmmm if they don't accept our contributions, no sweat.
17:00 Zeno` there's an easier way
17:01 VanessaE well since my opinions seem to hold little weight, I'll just shut up.
17:01 Zeno` "abstracting" the rendering engine
17:01 cib0 Go away. :|
17:01 cib0 :P
17:01 Zeno` this could probably be done in a few weeks
17:01 exio4 as long as you don't use objects for that, we'll hug you Zeno`
17:02 cib0 Looks like I'm the only one who believes the audio-visuals are just fine?
17:02 hmmmm and you'll be fighting with the irrlicht interface then
17:02 hmmmm who said you'll be able to get your paws on irrlicht private resouces
17:02 hmmmm resources
17:03 Zeno` Why would I have to?
17:03 hmmmm because you might need to
17:04 hmmmm i'm not sure what's involved to do all the things we want to do yet
17:04 Zeno` Not really... irrlicht versions/build will just not be able to do some things other backends can do (maybe)
17:05 Zeno` The main problem is the server and other parts of shared/common code use irrlicht types; but that's not *too* hard to change
17:06 kilbith hmmmm, it seems have a bug with the mapgen: https://lut.im/w1GAF3IJ/FwXbqJNt  (latest git, that happen here and there)
17:07 hmmmm nothing changed the output
17:07 kilbith large rectangular pieces of hundreds nodes
17:08 Krock kilbith, use 0.4.10 and 0.4.11 and compeare those
17:08 hmmmm there was a period in 0.4.10-dev where output got messed up a little
17:08 Krock *compare
17:08 hmmmm it could be that the map seed got messed up, make sure that's set correctly in both versions where it works properly and doesn't work properly
17:08 VanessaE hmmmm: can we PLEASE get a "delete this block from the database" command?
17:09 hmmmm thought there already was one
17:09 VanessaE to fix that ^^ after the fact?
17:09 VanessaE there isn't, afaik
17:09 VanessaE there was supposed to be, SN propose such
17:09 hmmmm you can do //regen, no?
17:09 hmmmm for some mods
17:09 VanessaE that doesn't delete blocks from the mapgen database.
17:10 VanessaE s/mapgen/map/
17:16 VanessaE (fwiw, //regen I think is a command in the 'mg' mod but it just triggers lua mapgen code to overwrite what's there.  that doesn't do any good for forcing the base mapgen, e.g. mgv6 to regenerate an area that was botched)
17:17 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
17:18 kilbith hmmm, i may know why that happens now, the seed changes whenever you enter in the *same* world
17:18 kilbith hmmmm ^
17:19 hmmmm you have a random seed set?
17:19 kilbith yes
17:20 hmmmm yes, i see the problem
17:20 hmmmm this could be related to the map_meta.txt error
17:20 hmmmm you say this started happening recently?
17:21 kilbith yes, since today
17:21 kilbith i wander on the map whenever you push new commits
17:23 hmmmm do things work fine before 5e2753c7?
17:23 kilbith haven't tested
17:24 kilbith built after 9b0d77a
17:28 hmmmm whoopsies
17:28 * Krock makes a troutslap ready
17:28 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
17:30 proller joined #minetest-dev
17:30 minetestforfun joined #minetest-dev
17:31 hmmmm kilbith, try this https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/a3d7203be5777010f13bf5465667028b920f4a29
17:38 proller joined #minetest-dev
17:38 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
17:40 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
17:40 neoascetic https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/master/src/CMakeLists.txt#L110
17:41 neoascetic why we need this statement? why not always simply process cmake_config.h.in?
17:46 Amaz left #minetest-dev
17:47 celeron55 it allows easier building for platforms that don't really have cmake easily available
17:48 celeron55 i actually used that to my benefit this year so there's that
17:49 celeron55 mostly it's a historical thing from the time when minetest natively supported a visual studio project
17:50 celeron55 it could be removed i guess
17:51 hmmmm hey celeron, what approach are you taking for improving vertex buffering in buildat?
17:58 rubenwardy #buildat
17:58 celeron55 umm... regarding to what exactly?
17:59 proller joined #minetest-dev
17:59 hmmmm well i was under the impression that buildat had the same fundamental problem as minetest does with mesh rendering due to the vertex buffering
18:00 celeron55 well it's a bit similar but it uses so much larger buffers and it has functioning texture atlasing
18:00 celeron55 so it really doesn't have an issue
18:00 rubenwardy Two core developers agree! https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/1977#issuecomment-68335991
18:01 celeron55 or, well
18:01 rubenwardy #1977
18:01 celeron55 i mean, that part of it is very unfinished
18:01 celeron55 and it has compromises that maybe shouldn't be there
18:01 hmmmm rubenwardy, was it rebased to the current revision of the API?
18:01 celeron55 so whether it's aacceptable completely depends on where you set the bar
18:01 rubenwardy See shadowninja's commt
18:02 hmmmm hmm
18:02 rubenwardy (s)he'll do it soon, probably
18:02 celeron55 buildat's goal is more about flexibility than performance so it does not concern me a lot
18:02 hmmmm ahh, taking the technically easy way out
18:02 hmmmm is urho3d any better than irrlicht in that regard?
18:02 Zeno` it should be merged now
18:02 hmmmm irrlicht seems to be optimized for generic game-games
18:03 celeron55 there's not that much you can do with performance in the end if you don't get the thing done in the first place - and you probably won't if you try something too fancy
18:03 Zeno` I suspect it needs rebasing again though :(
18:03 hmmmm it doesn't use any fancy buffering modes
18:03 celeron55 frankly buildat is probably already too intricate to take off
18:05 celeron55 hmmmm: urho3d is optimized zero amount for open world games like irrlicht (and all others); it's just more modern (basically it uses an opengl 2 style with some requirements from ogl3 while irrlicht is from the opengl1 era)
18:05 celeron55 i don't know if an open source engine exists that is designed for this kind of stuff
18:05 celeron55 i'm not surprised if it does not
18:06 hmmmm i'm no stranger to minecraft-like games
18:06 hmmmm before i discovered minetest, i was going to write one from scratch along with the graphics engine
18:07 hmmmm sorta wondering if I should continue on that mess
18:07 rubenwardy It is up to you. We can't stop you. Diversity is good.
18:08 rubenwardy Of course we like you contributing.
18:08 hmmmm no, i mean the dynamic-world graphics engine
18:08 Zeno` where is the main bottleneck?
18:09 celeron55 well, you could try, but make damn sure you find an easy way to include the boatload of model and animation support that is needed for a real game
18:09 rubenwardy CPU to GPU
18:09 celeron55 urho3d handles that absolutely effortlessly for buildat
18:09 celeron55 and irrlicht adequately for minetest
18:10 rubenwardy buildat is very slow for me - I guess I need a gaming PC.
18:10 hmmmm originally it was going to be sparse voxel octree-based
18:10 Zeno` irrlicht is the bottleneck?
18:10 hmmmm no, irrlicht is just old
18:10 kilbith hmmm: i confirm that your patch works, thanks
18:11 celeron55 rubenwardy: try lowering the rendering distance that is hardcoded in... umm... let me find it
18:11 celeron55 rubenwardy: assuming you are trying to run games/digger, see games/digger/main/client_lua/init.lua
18:11 Zeno` hmmmm, if irrlicht is not the bottleneck then how can switching to something more modern help?
18:12 hmmmm ?? it can't, it could make things a little better
18:12 hmmmm this was discussed before
18:14 Calinou we have a CPU bottleneck somewhere
18:14 kilbith hmmmm, the versionning is wrong on your fork: https://lut.im/1JeIGBa7/SihLfMQ1
18:14 Calinou probably by scene node abuse or such
18:15 kilbith (i use linux)
18:15 hmmmm whaa?
18:15 rubenwardy Much better, celeron55, it's now about 30 FPS rather than 1 FPS.
18:16 rubenwardy @160
18:16 Zeno` hmmmm, perhaps I directed the question at the wrong person
18:17 hmmmm the bottleneck is uploading meshes to the gpu
18:17 Zeno` celeron55... <celeron55> hmmmm: urho3d is optimized zero amount for open world games like irrlicht (and all others); it's just more modern (basically it uses an opengl 2 style with some requirements from ogl3 while irrlicht is from the opengl1 era)
18:17 Zeno` how is that an issue?
18:17 hmmmm again.. read up
18:18 Zeno` I have read up and I can assure you that it's not the issue
18:18 hmmmm it definitely is.  what brand of gpu do you have?
18:18 Zeno` nvidia
18:18 hmmmm then check your profiler in the debug menu, look at num_meshes_processed
18:19 celeron55 hmmmm: are you not interested in just implementing texture atlases and mapblock mesh combining?
18:19 celeron55 it would get the mesh upload performance to a totally acceptable level
18:20 Calinou is the old texture atlas code of any use now?
18:20 hmmmm sure, but I can't help but wonder if I'd be able to eke out some more performance by changing some buffering modes
18:20 hmmmm i've been reading that chapter in that OpenGL Insights book
18:20 celeron55 well the thing that is achievable if these pre-made engines are not used is that meshes could be uploaded from other threads
18:20 celeron55 it's the main difference
18:21 Calinou also, what about VBOs, that are currently used in Freeminer?
18:21 Calinou helped greatly in jungles
18:22 celeron55 well the situation with them of course is specific to irrlicht
18:22 hmmmm could've sworn we had vbo support for a while now, which can be enabled via the config
18:22 hmmmm unsynchronized buffers with multiple worker threads
18:23 Zeno` ok I just looked. GPU is not struggling at all
18:23 celeron55 they don't help much without big meshes though, and big meshes rarely happen without texture atlasing and mapblock mesh combining!
18:23 hmmmm i wanted to run multiple MeshMakeThreads
18:23 hmmmm gah
18:23 celeron55 (that's why you see a difference in jungles; they are the only place with big meshes)
18:23 hmmmm could just make mapblocks larger 8)
18:23 hmmmm 16x16x16 is pretty arbitrary
18:24 celeron55 then you leave out support for old intel laptops
18:24 celeron55 maybe it's acceptable
18:24 Calinou wouldn't that break all maps? and what about map size?
18:25 celeron55 but you can't make them too large, it starts causing other issues due to data size
18:25 celeron55 yes it will break everything
18:25 celeron55 that's why i talk about combining them at runtime
18:25 hmmmm i'll add that and see where it gets me
18:26 celeron55 oh also, in addititon to "old intel laptops", mobile devices need the small meshes too
18:26 celeron55 they neither can render a huge amount of vertices
18:26 celeron55 i mean, android
18:27 celeron55 buildat apparently happens to use 32x32x32 chunks (=MT mapblocks)
18:28 celeron55 there's no map saving at all so it's easily changeable :P
18:31 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
18:34 AnotherBrick joined #minetest-dev
19:05 VanessaE hmmmm: you asked earlier about VBO support.  no, we don't have it in minetest but there is a now-outdated pull for it.  I've used it in the past, and it worked well.  Whether it's still as performant, I don't know.  It never made it in because it causes memory leaks (outdated/obsolete meshes aren't deleted)
19:11 hmmmm perhaps it should be rebased.  i'd merge it in a second.
19:12 VanessaE well until the leak/obsolete meshes issue is solved, I think it'll be vetoed even faster
19:13 rubenwardy * if it works correctly
19:13 VanessaE ah, here it is:  https://github.com/ShadowNinja/minetest/tree/vbo
19:14 VanessaE I guess it never got a proper pull request, but anyway there's the code.
19:27 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
19:28 celeron55 joined #minetest-dev
19:35 hmmmm there is no leak
19:36 hmmmm it's just vastly increased memory usage
19:39 VanessaE ask Pilzadam.
19:39 hmmmm that's what i understood
19:39 VanessaE according to him I think it was, memory will just keep increasing as new meshes are generated and fed to the GPU
19:39 VanessaE the old ones are never thrown out
19:39 hmmmm hhrmm
19:40 hmmmm but freeminer added this?
19:40 VanessaE yep, apparently
19:40 VanessaE whether/how they fixed that issue, idk
19:40 hmmmm they probably didn't fix the issue
19:40 hmmmm by freeminer we mean proller
19:40 VanessaE heh
19:41 VanessaE inb4 some snide remark from him  ;)
19:42 rubenwardy How dare Freeminer take our code, make a better game and don't allow us to take it back.
19:42 rubenwardy The GPL -> LGPL move failed
19:42 Calinou yes we know :/
19:42 rubenwardy If we moved back, we could nick their code
19:42 VanessaE "better" is quite subjective here.
19:42 Calinou if Minetest was GPL they could switch to AGPL :p
19:43 hmmmm freeminer is waaaay inferior to minetest
19:43 rubenwardy better -> some optimisations
19:43 hmmmm those optimizations aren't actual optimizations and they're buggy as shit
19:43 Calinou Freeminer feels broken when you play it
19:43 rubenwardy They optimised things and added things that we don't have
19:43 rubenwardy Oh, okay
19:43 Calinou stuff like coloured text is very useful, and we can merge it
19:43 hmmmm proller told you he optimized things but they simply omit essential steps
19:43 Calinou but the PR has been abandoned and no dev approved it
19:43 hmmmm leading to bugs in edge cases
19:43 rubenwardy Just look how he did these things, and subtly copy them
19:44 hmmmm I did look at them and I'm not copying any of it
19:44 hmmmm it sucks ass
19:44 rubenwardy Well, look at it in despair and do it your own way.
19:44 hmmmm despair?
19:44 rubenwardy Loss of all hope
19:44 hmmmm I'm not exactly weeping over freeminer
19:45 hmmmm if you think it's better than minetest, that's fine.  you go play freeminer
19:45 rubenwardy (loss of all hope because it is a bad way of doing it, to clarify)
19:45 rubenwardy I prefer Minetest
19:46 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
19:50 hmmmm here's a typical Freeminer "fix" or "optimization":  https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/877ef2f5dcaa341c76a9abe073cbea5bba63ddae​#diff-34f48ad91ac6c202ac60b0348ae90e30R160
19:51 hmmmm like... are you shitting me
19:52 rubenwardy Wow
19:52 hmmmm and here's another "fix" for his "optimization":  https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/bef8bdb61b9fb8addcb1389c44efaf14cee155a7
19:53 hmmmm which basically invalidates 99% of the advantage gained from the optimization
19:53 hmmmm but the optimization wasn't really necessary to begin with
19:53 hmmmm freeminer is soo awesome
19:53 rubenwardy Lol
19:54 hmmmm I want you to seriously go through the commit logs, subtract Merge commit messages, and count the number of them that begin with the word "fix"
19:54 hmmmm perhaps also subtract the trivial ones like "remove comment"
19:54 rubenwardy Discard any that were ported from MT
19:55 rubenwardy https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/88bde8e8e9d8a75ae3fa05444993f4815d1334f1
19:55 rubenwardy "Fix merge"
19:55 hmmmm this is why he's not a minetest core dev
19:56 rubenwardy This is why I'm not a Minetest core dev: https://github.com/rubenwardy/NodeBoxEd​itor/blob/master/src/FileDialog.cpp#L85
19:56 hmmmm that's in bad taste but it's not invalid
19:57 Brains Heh, I had a dickens of a time convincing people that delete this was valid if not exactly the best taste...
19:58 rubenwardy "bad taste"? Like bad code style/structure?
19:58 hmmmm yes
19:58 rubenwardy Okay
19:58 hmmmm the "C++ way" is to perform deinitialization in the destructor
19:58 hmmmm so "delete fileobject" should actually be the thing to close the file handle
19:59 rubenwardy ah, that makes sense
19:59 hmmmm RAII and all that great stuff
19:59 hmmmm RAII is retarded and doesn't need to exist if it weren't for exceptions
19:59 hmmmm C++ is a shit language
20:00 rubenwardy Why does Irrlicht use drop rather than delete?
20:00 rubenwardy ie node->drop();   delete node;
20:03 rubenwardy Ah, grab()
20:03 Kray do you even know the point of RAII
20:03 Kray it is not that you manually do it
20:03 Kray but you use proper memory management
20:03 Kray as in unique_ptr or shared_ptr
20:03 exio4 it is poor man's garbage collection
20:04 Kray if it wasn't for the fact C++ doesn't have special syntax to make it less verbose, this is superior way to do memory management
20:04 hmmmm and if you used unique_ptr/shared_ptr, you wouldn't need a destructor
20:04 Kray garbage collection doesn't guarantee object lifetime and features possible performance issues
20:04 Kray u wot
20:04 Kray it is the destructor doing all the work
20:04 Kray which is being invoked by the memory container
20:05 hmmmm maybe if there was a special piece of syntax that told the compiler to automatically manage this thing
20:05 hmmmm like I said... destructors are unnecessary
20:05 Kray do you even know what you are talking about
20:06 Kray if you have some kind of a file handle, you obviously need to close it
20:06 Kray which is done in the destructor
20:06 hmmmm what's the difference between file->close();
20:06 hmmmm and delete file;
20:06 hmmmm you're assuming that RAII simply needs to exist
20:06 Kray delete file; is unnecessary when you manage your memory properly
20:07 Kray you don't need to do anything to clean up after you
20:07 Kray the file gets closed when you can no longer access the thing using the file automatically
20:07 Kray as in, when the unique_ptr or last shared_ptr gets deinitialized from heap
20:08 Kray if you write modern c++ you write 0 new or delete statements
20:08 hmmmm you use files how often?
20:08 Kray this is not just about files
20:08 hmmmm like 1% of the time?
20:08 Kray this is everything memory
20:08 rubenwardy Why use new when you can use malloc?
20:08 hmmmm 99% of destructor usage is memory management
20:10 hmmmm this all simply confirms my point that the concept of constructors/destructors is necessary only because of exceptions
20:11 hmmmm just because other languages jumped on the RAII train doesn't mean you have to.  it simply requires you to write more code to do the same task
20:11 kahrl I've read new/delete based code and smart pointer based code, I've always found the latter much harder to follow
20:11 kahrl anyway shared_ptr is boost or C++11 so this kind of moot for minetest
20:11 kahrl this is*
20:11 nore joined #minetest-dev
20:12 Kray hmmmm: it requires you to write more code and remember to do all deinitializations and stuff yourself
20:12 Kray more code to do same thing AND more ways to introduce bugs
20:12 hmmmm again, not if your language had some kind of "auto-deallocate"
20:12 rubenwardy destructors are overrated. Just do pvariable = NULL;
20:13 hmmmm you're stuck in the C++ mode of thinking
20:13 rubenwardy Easy
20:13 hmmmm if C++ does it, it must be the correct way to do it, I guess
20:13 Kray C++ does shitload of stuff so wrong it's not even funny
20:14 Kray but RAII is simply superior
20:14 hmmmm I don't know about you, but I can't see it
20:14 rubenwardy What have I started?
20:14 Kray i write C# for living and otherwise it is genuinely a good language, but i miss so much C++ style guaranteed object lifetime
20:15 rubenwardy c# is good, except it is pretty much Windows only.
20:15 hmmmm RAII has nothing to do with object lifetime.
20:15 Kray RAII has everything to do with object lifetime
20:16 rubenwardy C# is a powerful laser rifle strapped to a donkey, when taken off the donkey the laser doesn't seem to work as well. http://img.svbtle.com/ddmvewfmbobm0g.png
20:16 hmmmm are you sure you know what you're talking about?
20:16 hmmmm :)
20:16 Kray >In RAII, holding a resource is tied to object lifetime
20:16 Kray t: wikipedia
20:16 hmmmm holding a resource
20:17 hmmmm holding.  a.  resource.
20:17 hmmmm that doesn't affect the object lifetime at all
20:17 Kray RAII is the concept of object lifetime
20:17 hmmmm no it's not
20:17 hmmmm object lifetime is something separate
20:17 Kray when the object begins to exist, i.e. you allocate it dynamically or from the heap, it is initialized
20:17 hmmmm there is no such thing as the 'heap'
20:17 hmmmm that's an implementation specific detail and it doesn't belong in this discussion
20:18 Kray you know full well what i mean
20:18 hmmmm stop saying that
20:18 rubenwardy Go to PM?
20:18 Kray when the object is no longer accessible, it is denitialized and its lifetime ends
20:18 kahrl btw, here's a more recently rebased version of the vbo patch: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/tree/vbo
20:18 VanessaE kahrl: ah, that's a bit better :)
20:19 hmmmm but how does initialization and deinitialization have anything to do with the object's lifetime
20:19 hmmmm I can initialize an object 5 lines later in C
20:19 Kray are you serious
20:19 rubenwardy Well, they generally mark the start and the end
20:19 hmmmm yes, I am serious
20:19 Kray the object is initialized when it begins to exist
20:19 hmmmm with RAII
20:19 Kray it is denitialized when it ceases it
20:19 hmmmm yes
20:19 Kray yes, with RAII
20:19 hmmmm so are you saying that everything in the world uses RAII because it's so awesome?
20:20 hmmmm my point is that RAII does not dictate anything about object lifetime
20:20 Kray wat
20:20 hmmmm an object's lifetime is a separate concept from initialization and deinitialization.  RAII combines the two.
20:20 Kray it is even in the initialism itself
20:20 Kray Resource Acquisition Is an Initialization
20:21 hmmmm RAII is the concept that they should be one in the same
20:21 hmmmm but they don't need to be
20:21 hmmmm RAII mechanisms combine the two to happen concurrently
20:22 hmmmm so like I said, RAII has nothing to do with object lifetime.
20:22 hmmmm in the sense that it does not affect object lifetime
20:22 hmmmm RAII makes events dependent upon an object's lifetime however
20:22 hmmmm are you seriously arguing with this?
20:23 Kray by now you are just generating nonsense to make it seem like you have an argument
20:23 hmmmm you're a C++ fanboy with his RAII head stuck so far up his ass he can't see anything different
20:24 crazyR joined #minetest-dev
20:24 hmmmm you can set some default values by adding a piece of syntax to do that in the class declaration.  you can manage memory by adding a piece of syntax to tell the compiler to clear it at the end of the object's lifetime.  there is no need for constructors or destructors.
20:25 hmmmm it leads to nothing more than adding more tasks to a programmer's todo list that makes coding less enjoyable
20:25 celeron55 i actually agree with hmmmm in "RAII is retarded and doesn't need to exist if it weren't for exceptions", but some of the things you're saying is not right
20:25 hmmmm "oh gotta define a constructor for this"
20:26 celeron55 or, well, not that it's completely retarded, but it's not a necessary thing in a language
20:26 hmmmm it's retarded because it poisoned the well
20:26 celeron55 hmmmm: did you watch some of the videos i linked to you previously?
20:26 hmmmm case in point:  kray thinks it's the only way existing
20:26 hmmmm no
20:26 celeron55 because what you're now saying is like taken almost directly from them
20:26 celeron55 ...and the guy proceeds to start designing his own language after the ranting videos
20:26 Kray 222010 +hmmmm my point is that RAII does not dictate anything about object lifetime
20:27 hmmmm haha :(  I found myself
20:27 Kray this is so incredibly wrong statement
20:27 hmmmm I was designing a "new-C" a year ago
20:27 hmmmm this is one of the major things
20:27 hmmmm Kray, tell me
20:28 Kray RAII is a model of object lifetime
20:28 Kray no one who has any kind of understanding of what it is can state that RAII doesn't dictate anything about object lifetime
20:28 hmmmm it's a model of initializing and deinitializing on object lifetime events
20:28 hmmmm RAII told me that the object dies when it falls out of scope - right?
20:28 Kray on object lifetime events that it dictates
20:28 hmmmm but wait that happens with C too
20:28 hmmmm C doesn't have RAII
20:29 hmmmm what is going on here
20:29 Kray on lifetime events that are necessary for it to work
20:29 celeron55 hmmmm: watch all of this stuff later once you have time, starting from "Ideas about a new programming language for games.": https://www.youtube.com/user/jblow888/videos
20:29 Kray on lifetime events that don't exist in garbage collected languages
20:29 hmmmm haha
20:29 hmmmm celeron55:  is it more like C than it is a better C++?
20:29 celeron55 it's also in my blog http://c55.me/blog/?p=1723
20:29 celeron55 hmmmm: yes, the guy hates C++ in the same way as I and you
20:29 hmmmm alright
20:30 hmmmm so I'm nowhere near being alone in that I want a better C and C++ is the wrong way to go
20:30 celeron55 he is going to publish it free and open source later, but he's keeping it to himself until it's proper
20:30 hmmmm I started writing down some design concepts for my language but I never did anything about it because i have no time and better things to do
20:30 hmmmm I bet you did the same thing, right?
20:30 celeron55 no i haven't done such
20:30 celeron55 i'm too much of a practical person
20:30 celeron55 8)
20:31 hmmmm does his new-C language have optional garbage collection?
20:31 celeron55 no
20:31 hmmmm there's one difference
20:32 celeron55 watch the videos for your entertainment at some point, let's discuss them then 8)
20:32 acerspyro joined #minetest-dev
20:32 celeron55 i recommend them to Kray too
20:34 hmmmm i'l check it out
20:34 hmmmm i'd much rather get some of the biome crap done though
20:40 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
20:40 hmmmm wish the videos were in text format.. I read a lot faster than I do listen to some guy in front of a webcam
20:43 celeron55 yeah; you really have to watch them at some time when you're not in the mood of doing anything
20:43 celeron55 or do some cooking or stuff while listening
20:43 hmmmm i can't multitask
20:44 celeron55 or, just sit back and throw efficency in the thrash, it's a hobby anyway
20:44 celeron55 trash*
20:44 celeron55 +i
20:45 celeron55 i'm *watching* a 3-hour live streamed podcast at the moment, about videogames 8D
20:45 hmmmm i suppose i could eat while watching videos, because eating is more automatic than other things
20:45 celeron55 because... well, i got enough done today already
20:47 celeron55 i enjoy listening to that guy, he's not bad or uninteresting at speaking at all
20:47 hmmmm i like this guy so far
20:52 kahrl I tend to watch videos (well, some) at increased speed
20:52 kahrl you can listen faster than talk
20:55 celeron55 i find myself burning out easily if i'm "efficient" so i find long videos to be quite convenient
20:55 celeron55 put a few in a day and it's much harder to overwork yourself 8)
20:58 kahrl yeah, I watch the "serious" videos at increased speed so I have more time to watch non-serious stuff at normal speed to relax :P
20:59 kahrl "serious" = mostly lectures from my uni or some MOOC
21:08 J_L joined #minetest-dev
21:12 josh joined #minetest-dev
21:13 Guest32871 Hey guys I just was noticing this glitchy behavior, think it's worth filing an issue? Video of the problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/i​7zfklip3g85gwq/out.ogv?dl=0
21:13 Guest32871 (Namely, the seeing through walls)
21:15 hmmmm yeah i noticed that too
21:15 hmmmm file an issue about it... it started recently
21:15 kahrl this is with the default FOV, right?
21:16 Guest32871 Yes
21:16 roniz joined #minetest-dev
21:17 kahrl any idea when it started happening?
21:17 Guest32871 kahrl: No idea, I just downloaded the game today :)
21:18 kahrl ah okay
21:18 kahrl there was a similar bug a long time ago (#718) but only with increased FOV, so yours is not a duplicate
21:18 kahrl definitely file an issue
21:19 celeron55 it seems like you have to be exactly at that position relative to mapblocks for it to happen
21:23 VanessaE I've noticed it too, and have for a long while.
21:23 VanessaE didn't think to mention it.
21:24 Guest32871 celeron55, kahrl: It would be helpful to include my game save or something to reproduce the issue I'm thinking. Where could I find some such save file?
21:24 VanessaE it's really noticable if you have a lot of map loaded up, and you fly high in order to take a wide-angle screenshot (e.g. a world preview image for a server topic)
21:24 VanessaE (default FoV)
21:26 celeron55 it's probably not the same issue
21:27 celeron55 it's in the same system but a different issue
21:27 celeron55 those close mapblocks aren't supposed to be handled by the same calculation as the very far ones
21:31 kahrl Guest32871: I assume a game save won't be necessary, just include the coordinates and which direction you're facing
21:31 kahrl just make a screenshot with the F5 debug info enabled
21:39 Guest32871 kahrl, celeron55, VanessaE, hmmmm : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2032
21:41 crazyR_ joined #minetest-dev
21:49 kahrl Guest32871: yeah, I can reproduce that when I load your world
21:52 kahrl also when I build a similar staircase in another world at the same coordinates
21:54 shadowzone joined #minetest-dev
21:54 Guest32871 Interesting
21:56 kahrl easiest way to reproduce this is to stand at x=z=0 and dig down until the F5 info shows y = -2.5
21:56 kahrl then jump
22:06 fz72 joined #minetest-dev
22:07 cody2 joined #minetest-dev
22:15 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
22:35 kahrl https://gist.github.com/kahrl/4c0dbb62b3bd67666c03
22:35 kahrl not sure if that is the best way to fix it but it works
22:36 kahrl the issue is that the camera is just outside the radius given by block_max_radius but still close enough that the FOV check below fails
22:38 kahrl perhaps the FOV check can be fixed but I don't have any idea how
22:51 Guest32871 Wow that was fast!
23:30 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
23:30 RealBadAngel hi
23:32 celeron55 kahrl: yeah, and it occurs because of that due to block visibility not being updated every frame
23:32 celeron55 or... umm... maybe
23:33 celeron55 at least it might be part of what is going on but whatever, if that works in practice, it's fine
23:37 RealBadAngel the issue looks like wrong positioned camera or somethin like that
23:38 RealBadAngel block visibility cannot be updated every frame
23:39 RealBadAngel it is done in mapblock mesh updates only
23:41 RealBadAngel only way to make those faces invisible is imho the position of the camera
23:49 celeron55 lol don't start
23:50 celeron55 you're going to the wrong direction and already just embarras everybody
23:50 celeron55 +s
23:51 RealBadAngel just a thought, im not sure
23:55 RealBadAngel on the other hand mesh updates doesnt care about face visibility, only irrlicht can eliminate visible faces
23:55 RealBadAngel i mean depending on camera position
23:56 RealBadAngel notice that happens on jumps, changing camera position

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext