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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-12-10

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Time Nick Message
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04:08 paramat hmmmm, i hope i have the minetest.conf format for heat and humidity noises correct here, please could you check? https://forum.minetest.net/viewto​pic.php?f=18&p=164110#p164110 perhaps i should also change the defaults to persist = 0.5 before 0.4.11
04:08 hmmmm no
04:09 hmmmm use the new format
04:09 hmmmm the single line positional parameter format is old and depreciated, and does not support any new noise parameters
04:11 hmmmm also i hope you realize that those noise parameters for biomes aren't the default at all in the future... they're just some BS i made up temporarily and i didn't have any reason to change them
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04:34 paramat ah the new format okay
04:34 paramat thanks
04:34 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/f2c18511a4a3c3cfdda3671d02f1b7468cb56405
04:35 hmmmm i am really happy with this commit
04:35 hmmmm look at all the lines i was able to delete
04:36 paramat yes the group format is much better
04:42 hmmmm i have the format specified in minetest.conf.examples
04:44 paramat yeah found that
04:44 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d50878d608fdea2be890ff75b93212f5bba1d6f8
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04:49 paramat nice
04:52 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/88c28414f4a88c8d66f9cadb150896f9e25527ae
05:06 paramat i guess now lacunarity is added the group format is mandatory. i'll make a pull later tonight to change heat and humidity persistences to 0.5
05:06 hmmmm it's not.. why do you say that?
05:08 paramat okay. thought lacunarity, being a new noise param, forced the group format
05:08 hmmmm only if you want a different lacunarity than the default
05:08 hmmmm for people who have been happy with noise so far, this should not make any change
05:08 hmmmm don't forget, there's also the new flags parameter
05:15 paramat yes looking at those now, absvalue will be very useful
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05:38 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/fb2bc956b18bd70a47bff00d5726d4754867856a
05:38 hmmmm who would've thought that removing a single asterisk would cause this much trouble
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06:10 kahrl should I merge #1662? apparently it works for some people and there isn't really anything it could break (the code only runs when Ctrl-V is pressed)
06:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1662 -- Add paste command (Ctrl-V) in GUIChatConsole by kahrl
06:11 hmmmm lgtm
06:12 kahrl merging
06:20 hmmmm can we get a snowman block or something in before release?
06:22 VanessaE a mesh node would be most appropriate for that
06:32 hmmmm paramat: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/a89f37bb653eda393d835b9546ec86244d3932b6
06:32 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1932 someting was merged while i was making this pull, let me know if rebase is necessary
06:33 hmmmm i don't think it should conflict with anything
06:34 paramat yep good
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06:38 hmmmm oh, you don't have commit privleges
06:40 paramat not sure i'm qualified for those `=/
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06:51 paramat thanks for the merge
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07:38 kahrl kilbith: I like your sketches, unfortunately right now they are not implementable because formspec lacks certain features
07:38 kahrl for example #1668
07:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1668 -- Example text for text fields
07:39 kahrl kilbith: maybe remind me when 0.4.11 is released?
07:39 kahrl for now I'll go with something I can finish today :P
07:40 kahrl updated #1891
07:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1891 -- Display serverlist flags as icons by kahrl
07:40 VanessaE kahrl: put the icons closer together
07:40 kahrl yeah, I meant to do that
07:40 VanessaE and I agree with you about getting rid of the vertical labels.
07:41 VanessaE kilbith is also right about squashing the player counts down.  maybe auto-size the column?
07:41 VanessaE (no reason to make it more than 2/2 digits unless it actually needs more)
07:42 kahrl well I don't want 1000 to show up as, say, 00
07:42 kahrl but I don't know what to show instead
07:43 VanessaE right, but if a server has 1000 as a value, can't you dynamically widen the column only then?
07:43 kahrl let me check if table[] has that feature... I don't think it does
07:44 kahrl nope, you can specify a minimum width but not a maximum width or an overridable width
07:44 kahrl it would look a bit ugly too
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07:47 kahrl I could do the Excel thing and show large numbers as ##
07:49 kahrl I'll do that for now until someone finds a better solution
07:49 VanessaE meh
07:50 VanessaE I'd be more inclined to write 99+ or some such
07:50 VanessaE but that still requires three "digits"
07:50 VanessaE ## will confuse users I think
07:51 kahrl let me try 99+
07:56 kahrl well it's of course better than 1000 but the gap still seems big and unsightly
07:57 kahrl 'lots' is even a bit shorter than '99+'
07:57 VanessaE heh
07:57 kahrl on the other hand, it would have to be translated
07:59 kahrl how about ∞?
07:59 VanessaE heh
07:59 realbadangel hmmmm, https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&t=10701
07:59 VanessaE infinite would probably not work :P
08:01 hmmmm nice stuff and all, but i'm looking for just a single node
08:01 hmmmm er rather two nodes, a snowman head and a snowman body
08:01 hmmmm not meshes, just nodes
08:02 hmmmm then they'll randomly start appearing on dirt_with_snow between dec 24 and dec 26th 00:00 UTC
08:03 kahrl ≈∞
08:03 kahrl that's mathematically not incorrect and also looks like glasses (which you almost need to decipher it)
08:03 VanessaE haha
08:05 realbadangel hmmmm, http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/71110
08:09 hmmmm sure, why not
08:13 VanessaE kahrl: what about displaying something like "99+" in place of the *whole* xx/yy column?
08:14 VanessaE (at that point, is a user gonna care how many players the server claims to accept if it's already claiming to have >99 online at that moment?)
08:14 kahrl I think the user cares more about clients than clients_max in most cases
08:15 kahrl oh, you mean if clients > 99?
08:15 VanessaE yeah
08:15 kahrl that doesn't really happen very often
08:15 kahrl I'm more concerned with clients_max > 99
08:15 VanessaE oh, hrm
08:16 kahrl 𓁨  <-- the egyptian hieroglyph for 'very large number' (or 1000000)
08:17 kahrl aww, not included in the font
08:17 VanessaE it's a little box reading [010368] on my end :)
08:17 VanessaE er 013068
08:18 kahrl here too ;)
08:18 VanessaE maybe just cap it at 99
08:19 VanessaE can it be displayed with, say, an underline or a box around the number or something?
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08:19 kahrl not easily, no
08:19 kahrl perhaps even ... would get the point across
08:20 VanessaE possibly
08:20 VanessaE by "box" I mean inverse colors or just a custom background color
08:20 kahrl maybe
08:21 VanessaE or,
08:21 VanessaE there are UTF chars for circled numbers, too
08:21 kilbith kahrl: saw my sketch yesterday ?
08:21 VanessaE if you wanted to be fancy :)
08:21 kahrl I don't like the inverse colors because it encourages people to specify a huge client_max just so their server stands out
08:21 kahrl kilbith: yeah
08:21 VanessaE U+2460 --> ①
08:21 kahrl I like it
08:21 VanessaE etc.
08:22 kahrl kilbith: http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-12-10#i_4056126
08:22 kilbith the "Favorites:" atop is irrevelant - you should move that as checkbox instead of Public Serverlist
08:23 kilbith and extend the list further upward
08:23 kahrl kilbith: I think it would be best as a radio button,  o Public Serverlist  o Favorites
08:23 kahrl (of course once that's a valid formspec element)
08:24 kilbith just  o Favorites  can make the sort
08:24 hmmmm minimal was part of the minetest repo as of 0.4.4, right?
08:25 kahrl hmmmm: easy way to check: git show 0.4.4:games/minimal
08:25 hmmmm nevermind actually
08:25 hmmmm this was before the CWD fix
08:32 kilbith kahrl: not interested for making the clients "loading bar" finally ?
08:33 VanessaE bbl
08:35 kahrl kilbith: I can't specify a per-row tooltip
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08:37 kilbith oh, ok
08:56 kahrl #1891 updated again, now trying the freeminer icons for comparison
08:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1891 -- Display serverlist flags as icons by kahrl
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08:59 kilbith better; but a little bit more spacing between clients / icons / serv. names
09:01 kahrl kilbith: like this? http://i.imgur.com/192FMD5.png
09:01 kilbith yes, perfect
09:07 kahrl removed the Favorites label: http://i.imgur.com/1vSj4I7.png
09:12 kilbith better - just have to replace Public Serv. checkbox by Favorites and invert its sorting
09:13 kahrl not sure that makes a difference in usability
09:14 kilbith right
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10:11 kilbith kahrl, i did the creative icon (2 variants): https://mediacru.sh/ae1a64e6e013
10:12 kilbith quickly made on a crap software on a slow raspberry pi
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11:12 Zeno` https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commit/d5e​0ed07456f09125ccfe6712fa389d84b332423.patch if anybody wants to test (I haven't tested much at all)
11:12 Zeno` Relates to #944
11:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/944 -- bug: item loss due to moving items out of output-only inventory to an occupied slot
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13:13 Zeno` #1933 for testing and comments
13:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1933 -- Fix item loss due to moving items out of output-only inventory to an occupied slotTesting by Zeno-
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14:37 VanessaE kahrl: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa​/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite-1.png
14:37 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa​/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite-2.png
14:38 VanessaE and the gimp file:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vaness​a/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite.xcf
14:38 VanessaE colors based on kilbith's image
14:39 kilbith looks good :+1:
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14:49 kilbith VanessaE: those icons are 16x16px - i'm not that 64px can be auto-scaled in the column
14:49 kilbith not sure*
14:50 VanessaE I can make smaller ones if so desired, however high resolution versions should be preferred here because of the probability of high definition screens.
14:51 VanessaE hm, the "infinity" symbol is a tad off-center
14:52 VanessaE there, fixed.
15:05 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/​hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16-1.png
15:05 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/​hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16-2.png
15:05 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa​/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16.xcf
15:05 VanessaE I'd suggest making use of both resolutions where appropriate.
15:09 VanessaE there, made some minor color tweaks to those last three.
15:12 VanessaE and... antialiased it.
15:15 VanessaE more anti-aliasing, and I'm done.
15:17 Zeno` I like it
15:19 * VanessaE pokes kahrl
15:24 VanessaE anyway, there it is.  the 64px one scales down to 32px nicely.
15:24 VanessaE so that covers three sizes :P
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16:01 kilbith VanessaE: for 16px, i suggest to move the infinit synbol onto the right-bottom corner
16:02 kilbith that'd let the cube's edges visible
16:03 VanessaE nah, it'd be too small then
16:03 kilbith how so ?
16:04 kilbith we can't easily discern the cube behind the symbol actually
16:04 VanessaE there's only about 5 or so pixels of space on each of those side faces :P
16:05 VanessaE eh?  I can see the cube shape just fine
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16:05 VanessaE anyway the original XCF is up there.  someone can modify it if so desired.
16:06 kilbith look at the quantity number for inventory icons, they are placed in the corner - i suggest the same way for that symbol
16:07 kilbith usual sense
16:07 VanessaE hrm
16:08 kilbith it seems like the infinit symbol is just surrounded by a pentagone
16:09 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/​hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16-3.xcf
16:09 VanessaE oops
16:09 kilbith hexagone*
16:09 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/​hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16-3.png
16:09 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/​hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16-4.png
16:09 VanessaE like this?
16:10 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/l/lW-_3BKiCqBt.png <-- Example with the 16px-1 one.
16:10 Calinou today I made a 1024² texture that looks pretty great
16:10 VanessaE Amaz: try it with one of those last two I just linked.
16:10 kilbith VanessaE: better (IMO) but reduce the infinit symbol
16:10 Calinou hi
16:10 Amaz Just going to :P
16:10 VanessaE kilbith: I already reduced it in height by 1 px.
16:10 Calinou nice icons and colours
16:10 VanessaE for those last two images.
16:11 Calinou what is the yellow hexagon icon?
16:11 kilbith VanessaE: still again
16:11 Calinou creative?
16:11 VanessaE Calinou: yeah
16:11 Calinou don't put an hexagon around it
16:11 VanessaE but it's a wireframe cube with a yellow infinity on it
16:11 Calinou just a yellow infinite symbol
16:12 Calinou else, it becomes hard to read
16:12 Calinou looks like scissors
16:12 Calinou the infinite symbol could also be blue-ish
16:12 kilbith it's not an hexagon
16:12 Calinou try this colour: #55CCFF
16:12 kilbith i said that it seems like an hexagon
16:12 Calinou kilbith, at first glance it looks like one :)
16:12 kilbith and the wireframed cube is your idea btw
16:13 kilbith only the infinit symbol would evoke nothing in particular
16:13 VanessaE Calinou: with that color, it blends into the gray background of the block too much
16:13 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/b/bZcIUUCESxNE.png <-- With 16-3
16:14 Calinou there would be no background if you removed the cube
16:14 Calinou that's what I meant
16:14 Calinou oh this one is good, Amaz
16:14 VanessaE Amaz: kilbith is right, 16-3 does look better.
16:14 Amaz Yep.
16:14 Calinou try it in other colours?
16:14 Calinou yellow looks like a warning
16:14 Calinou that's why I suggested blue-ish
16:15 VanessaE try 16-5.png
16:15 VanessaE I made it greenm
16:15 VanessaE -m
16:15 Calinou green sounds good too
16:15 Calinou also, try a smaller heart for damage? looks a tad too large
16:16 Zeno` I think I like green
16:16 Zeno` green suggests "go"
16:16 VanessaE yes
16:16 kilbith or "core-dev" :P
16:16 Zeno` heh
16:16 Zeno` blue suggests annoying LED on my monitor
16:17 VanessaE 16-6.png is up also.  blue as Calinou suggested.
16:17 VanessaE (not the exact shade but as close as I could make it)
16:18 kilbith yeah, this blue looks nice
16:19 VanessaE I've updated the xcf to move the infinite symbol to the corner as in the pngs, and to include all three colors in separate layers.
16:19 kilbith Amaz: try 16-6.png please
16:19 Amaz Coming, coming :P
16:21 Zeno` It's hard being green
16:21 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/K/KHXf2sn5ViPT.png <- With 16-5
16:22 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/x/xOJ0iyWWf3fx.png <- With 16-6
16:22 Calinou your name is green, Zeno`
16:22 kilbith VanessaE: make the infinit translucent please
16:22 Calinou oh, I meant both the cube and infinite symbol, Amaz
16:22 Calinou :/
16:22 Zeno` although now I see that I think blue is better
16:22 VanessaE kilbith: which color?
16:22 Calinou 16-6 looks good enough though
16:22 kilbith blue
16:23 Amaz Calinou, I don't make the textures....
16:23 Calinou ah
16:23 Amaz (Not sure what you're saying though)
16:23 Amaz VanessaE does them :)
16:23 Amaz I just "model" them.
16:23 VanessaE kilbith: 16-7.png, blue.  set to 85% opacity
16:24 VanessaE also, updated the 64px xcf to include all three colors in separate layers.
16:24 kilbith try to 50%, cube edges should be a bit visible
16:24 VanessaE kilbith: 50% is too low.  can't hardly see it then.
16:24 kilbith or more
16:25 VanessaE 16-8.png, set it to 70%
16:25 kilbith 75% should be perfect
16:25 VanessaE 16-9.png .
16:26 kilbith Amaz ^
16:26 kilbith thanks Vanessa
16:27 Amaz :P
16:27 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/6/66XxI17BQkIr.png <- 7
16:27 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/v/v5_V40SRnJzI.png <- 8
16:29 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/I/IgOwctklfo2o.png <- 9
16:29 VanessaE oh, I guess I forgot to turn off the grey background on the block
16:30 VanessaE try 16-10.png
16:30 VanessaE same as 16-9 but without the grey and black parts.
16:30 Calinou make the infinite symbol white, if you want it to be seen in this case
16:30 kilbith white will be confused with the cube's edges
16:31 Calinou then gray/black cube edges?
16:32 Amaz https://cdn.mediacru.sh/T/TzNQWSH0ziL_.png <- 10
16:33 kilbith Calinou: black formspec background, how you'll can see that cube ?
16:33 Calinou the cube faces would be transparent gray :P
16:33 Calinou or try… green cube, white infinite
16:33 VanessaE Amaz: you know, I think I like it better *with* the grey (16-9).
16:33 kilbith me too
16:33 Amaz VanessaE, same here.
16:34 kilbith it gives a visual consistency
16:34 kilbith and i think that 85% opacity for infinit is the best
16:36 VanessaE 16-11.png is calinou's green/white idea.
16:36 kilbith yep, much better
16:38 VanessaE I don't really like it though.  the grey block with a colored infinity looks better imho
16:39 kilbith VanessaE: same as 11 but in blue please
16:39 VanessaE the block in blue?
16:39 kilbith yes
16:39 VanessaE 16-12.png
16:40 kilbith -11 is better for infinit contrast
16:41 kilbith Amaz ^
16:41 VanessaE re-saved -12, with 85% on the infinity.
16:41 VanessaE er 80%
16:41 Calinou 16-11 looks good and readable
16:42 kilbith 16-11 is perhaps too "acid-ish" or so
16:45 VanessaE both xcf's updated to add the blue/white theme as new layers.
16:45 kilbith plus there's already green clients numbers next to that icon
16:47 Amaz 11: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/_/_cQi14vDNvz1.png
16:47 Amaz 12: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/u/ujaZz_KyL9jz.png
16:47 Calinou blue + white is good too
16:48 VanessaE I like the blue/white also.
16:48 kilbith ok, my definitive vote is for 12
16:48 kilbith blue
16:48 VanessaE I think we have a winner
16:48 Amaz 12 does seem good.
16:49 Calinou 12 too
16:50 kilbith kahrl, here the winner: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/images/infinite16-12.png
16:50 Zeno` yep
16:51 VanessaE kahrl: and the xcf for that, with some interim layers:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa​/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16.xcf
16:51 Amaz Screenshot of it in action: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/u/ujaZz_KyL9jz.png
16:51 VanessaE 64 px xcf, http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vaness​a/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite.xcf
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16:54 VanessaE I passed it by Abe, he says it looks fine, and he interprets it as "infinite materials"
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16:54 VanessaE so its meaning is good.
16:54 VanessaE (I usually run icons and such by him at least once.  since he doesn't play, he makes for a good, neutral opinion)
16:55 kilbith now i'm wondering for a gold-ish one :/
16:55 VanessaE I can do gold.  one moment,
17:00 VanessaE 16-13.png
17:01 kilbith hmm, i meant the same style of cube with gold color
17:01 VanessaE can't be done without a gradient.
17:01 VanessaE otherwise, it looks like this:
17:02 VanessaE 16-14.png
17:02 kilbith ah yeah... bad
17:02 kilbith so stay on the blue then
17:03 VanessaE yeah
17:03 VanessaE I think 16-12.png is the best.
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17:10 VanessaE 16-15.png looks much more like gold.
17:10 VanessaE but 16-12 blue/white is still better
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17:27 kilbith yes
17:39 VanessaE let's just go with 16-12
17:40 * VanessaE saves the final xcf's and closes the files.
17:41 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vaness​a/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite.xcf
17:41 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa​/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16.xcf
17:41 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/images/infinite16-12.png
17:42 kilbith amen.
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18:05 kaeza will #1862 be merged before release?
18:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1862 -- Add minetest.global_exists() by ShadowNinja
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18:10 VanessaE Amaz: check the log.
18:12 Amaz Yep. Do you want screenshots with the others?
18:12 kaeza I still see no point in that pull, though
18:12 VanessaE Amaz: sure, what the hell :P
18:12 Amaz :P
18:18 Amaz 13: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/-/-3AERrzyaDyn.png
18:18 Amaz 14: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/9/994IB58d6gfX.png
18:18 Amaz 15: https://mediacru.sh/gLZo7QKnkrXc
18:20 kilbith horrible
18:21 kilbith that's all i can say
18:21 Amaz ^
18:21 VanessaE yeah, the gold looks nice by itself but it just doesn't work at all in practice.
18:22 Krock I prefer a pen.
18:22 Krock Like "Free edit"
18:22 Calinou pen looks like “Interact granted by default”
18:22 Amaz ^
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18:23 Krock Calinou, ah right. That's almost a default for me :3
18:23 Krock nvm. Bad idea with the pen
18:24 Krock Amaz, use the dirt textures
18:24 Amaz ?
18:24 Krock As cubes in the background of that infinite sign
18:24 kilbith we've already choosen the icon, Krock
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18:24 Amaz I don't make the icons anyway...
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18:24 Amaz http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-12-10#i_4056597
18:26 Krock ah. the ppl already decided
18:26 Amaz Yep.
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19:00 Taoki Hmm... I wanted to make a forum thread about this, but I'm not sure what the best section is, so perhaps I should ask here: I've been around and working on Minetest for a while, and I'd like to be able to make things advance faster. Is there a chance that I could join the dev list on Github, so I can have an official vote on accepting pull request and the ability to accept pulls?
19:00 Taoki I know there's a rule that a minimum number of developers need to agree to a pull before it's accepted. If there's anything else I need to know, I can probably learn.
19:02 Taoki Should I email such a request to a specific address... or create an issue on Github?
19:03 Calinou being a core dev requires good C++ knowledge
19:04 Taoki Calinou: Mine isn't excellent. But I seem to understand most of Minetest's code, unlike other C++ projects. Perhaps because it's more cleanly or simply done.
19:05 Taoki I probably wouldn't ask if I didn't :P After all I got the basis of 3D models coded back in the day... so I can likely figure things out.
19:09 PilzAdam Taoki, you can't request this yourself; we will invite you if we think that you are good, would fit the job and would be a benefit for the team
19:09 PilzAdam at least that's how it was done in the past
19:09 Taoki I see. Ok in that case
19:10 VanessaE that said, Taoki WOULD be a benefit, imho.
19:10 Taoki PilzAdam: Can I still officially vote on pull requests however? As in, do I count in the rule that "a minimum of X developers must agree for a pull to be accepted"? That's what I'm most interested in... I'd like to be able to test and confirm changes and help things go even faster.
19:10 Taoki And thanks VanessaE :)
19:11 PilzAdam no, there is no rule that would allow this
19:11 PilzAdam you could help us by testing pull requests, though
19:11 Krock I'm happy about not being in the merge-privilege-dev list, this ay I can blame others :3
19:11 Krock *way
19:11 Calinou Taoki makes a lot of strange or Minecrafty judgments
19:11 Calinou but overall would help the team
19:12 Taoki PilzAdam: ok
19:13 Taoki Could be nice if there was a half-dev status... where you can't accept / reject pulls but can officially weigh down on them. At least if enough people do happen to agree with my ideas :P
19:14 Taoki I seem to favor eye candy and some new visual changes more than the average user sometimes
19:14 Amaz I think that the half-dev idea is very good.
19:14 kilbith you imagine how many people would wants this status if allowed ?
19:14 Calinou bureaucracy isn't appreciated much by Minetest devs
19:15 Amaz kilbith, yeah...
19:15 Taoki kilbith: It could be granted for low level contributors and known users only. Like those who have been around for more than 3 - 6 months, have some knowledge of the code, understand the project's direction, etc.
19:16 Taoki I think there are many non-(officially)-devs who would qualify
19:16 Calinou there are dozens of people who have been around for 1+ years and know the code a bit :P
19:16 kilbith opinions (if logic) are considerate by devs anyways - no need to have an official status for ease the enforcement of your views
19:16 Krock ^ me
19:17 * Krock puts his message above kilbith's
19:17 Taoki Calinou: If they're all trusted users who seek to help, having them all count for feature votes would sound like a nice thing to consider :)
19:17 Calinou voting should be a last resort
19:18 Calinou not a general thing to do
19:18 Calinou do you see your country voting on everything?
19:18 Calinou use consensus
19:18 Krock Not even Switzerland votes for everything
19:18 Calinou “+1” shouldn't be worth anything, only arguments should
19:18 jin_xi +1
19:18 * Taoki agrees
19:19 Taoki Depends who'se count though
19:20 Calinou how to fix mods that use globals?
19:20 Calinou especially the intllib-supporting ones
19:20 Calinou kaeza, ^
19:21 Calinou some server errors out due to globals
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19:21 VanessaE I thought someone added a config switch to silence those warnings?
19:22 Krock #1862
19:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1862 -- Add minetest.global_exists() by ShadowNinja
19:22 Calinou it has lots of warnings, but shuts down due to an error
19:22 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/9466167/
19:23 Krock Calinou, interesting. The error couldn't be written completely
19:23 Krock > Connexion
19:23 Calinou network-related errors are translated
19:24 Calinou by the system, probably
19:27 VanessaE wow, that's a new one
19:27 VanessaE and that's singleplayer??
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19:29 Calinou no, a server
19:30 Calinou #minetestforfun @ InchraNet
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19:31 PilzAdam Taoki, how would signs using the mesh drawtype work?
19:31 PilzAdam you still can't change textures at runtime
19:32 PilzAdam nore, hi, do you have time to look at some pull requests of minetest_game?
19:32 PenguinDad Taoki: minetest doesn't use mtl files afaik
19:32 Taoki PilzAdam: Yeah, I remember someone mentioning that this is still a limitation for meshnodes. Not for entities though. So a sign could spawn a single entity, containing a plane with a different material for each latter.
19:32 Taoki **letter
19:32 VanessaE the problem is the texture compositing operations.  they slow the client down greatly.
19:32 nore sorry, no time now, and my internet connection is crap (that's the problem with my irc client auto-connect)
19:32 Taoki Previously I believe signed spawned one entity per letter... that was indeed very ugly.
19:33 VanessaE Taoki: no.  they spawn one entity per sign.
19:33 Taoki VanessaE: Ah... that's good then
19:33 nore just very fast: which ones?
19:34 PilzAdam nore, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/174 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/375 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/366 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/354 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/338
19:34 VanessaE the problem is the client apparently does not handle the compositing operations used to build the texture, very well.  possibly to the point of iterating through them every video frame.
19:34 Taoki If there's one entity per sign, I imagine realtime signs could be accepted in minetest_game. Although not necessarily, as that might still be unstable... I couldn't vore 100% in favor of that either.
19:34 VanessaE realbadangel can explain; he has a plan to mitigate the problem.
19:34 PilzAdam Taoki, could you elaborate how materials will solve the problem?
19:34 PilzAdam I still don't understand it...
19:35 Taoki PilzAdam: If there is a flat plane for each letter using a different material, a different letter texture could be assigned for each face.
19:36 Taoki A model would simply contain an array of flat planes, each with a material of its own. Then Lua can, for example, assign texture "B" to material "4" to make the 4th later a B.
19:36 VanessaE Taoki: that would be potentially thousands of materials per sign.
19:36 PilzAdam how can you change the arrangement of letters at runtime?
19:36 PilzAdam can you change the textures <-> material assignements at runtime in Lua?
19:36 VanessaE no
19:37 Taoki PilzAdam: On entities, the texture array can apparently be changed in realtime. It's how skins or the armor mod appear to work... so 3D armor allows you to set your skin then a helmet / chestplate / etc individually.
19:37 nore PA: I was ok with #366
19:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/366 -- Add a list of servers to the Multiplayer tab by Jeija
19:37 Taoki Sadly this doesn't appear to be possible on meshnodes... at least yet.
19:37 nore #375 looked good
19:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/375 -- New tree generator. by RealBadAngel
19:37 nore #354 too
19:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/354 -- Added ability to fetch media from remote server (using cURL library) by xyzz
19:38 VanessaE Taoki: realbadangel has a plan for a VGA text drawtype.  no fiddling with meshes or materials or entities.
19:38 Taoki This is probably part of a different problem: Minetest isn't designed with the idea that a node should be possible to retexture. Texture is considered a static property of each node type.
19:38 Taoki This could theoretically be fixed though...
19:38 Taoki VanessaE: Nice! That is indeed even better.
19:38 nore the two others are good too
19:38 nore sorry, can't stay
19:38 PilzAdam nore, thanks! :D
19:39 PilzAdam I wait for sfan5's vote on these then...
19:40 Taoki Reminder that I made a small bugfix also, #1926 It lets footstep sounds work on liquid nodes so swimming sounds can be possible, and also enables climbing sounds for ladders out of the box.
19:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1926 -- Liquid & climbing footsteps by MirceaKitsune
19:40 Calinou this should really be merged…
19:41 PilzAdam Taoki, I wouldn't call that a "bugfix"
19:41 Calinou it isn't a bug fix, but it is an improvement
19:41 Taoki Right. Sort of, I guess. Footstep sounds on liquids didn't work in the past either. But I'm not sure if that was intended at the time.
19:41 Taoki More like an improvement fix... or just an improvement, sure :)
19:43 Calinou but this will probably not be merged :( as usual
19:43 PilzAdam Taoki, change the comment above the if too
19:44 Calinou yes, always keep comments up-to-dae
19:44 Calinou I've seen various out of date comments while reading the code
19:44 Taoki PilzAdam: What should I change it to?
19:44 PilzAdam isn't that obvious?
19:45 PilzAdam "If the player seems to be walking on solid ground, swimming or climbing,"
19:45 Taoki Ok... just wanted to be sure
19:45 PilzAdam otherwise this seems fine; needs to be tested, though
19:47 Taoki I tested it myself and everything looks and works good. Others should test too of course
19:55 PilzAdam realbadangel, have you tested https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/375 yet?
19:56 Calinou Taoki, https://github.com/minetest/minetest​_game/pull/312#issuecomment-66511214
19:57 Calinou seems obvious, but I'll clarify it again :)
19:57 Calinou I don't like spending hours on a game and not do much
19:57 Taoki Calinou: I still think the current default speed is okay. If it's too fast, things well... simply happen too fast.
19:57 Calinou Minecraft's is a tad faster for comparison
19:58 Calinou the walking speed, not the sprinting one
19:58 Calinou my changes would make Minetest's speed between Minecraft's walking and sprinting
19:58 Taoki Maybe just a very little bit, but I wouldn't support the walking speed getting much faster otherwise
19:58 Calinou also, the speeds I have put are the same as the ones currently used in Carbone… so if you play that subgame, you already use the modified speeds
19:58 Taoki Sounds like too much I think
19:58 Calinou if you think walking is too fast, you've never played Sauerbraten :P
19:59 Taoki I play Xonotic, I know what it's like :3
19:59 kilbith the Carbone's physics are quite hard to handle :/
19:59 kilbith i'm not the only one to think that
19:59 Calinou Xonotic is not quite as fast
19:59 Calinou seems fine for me
20:00 Calinou if you want to walk slowly, sneak
20:00 Calinou sneaking is 2× slower, not 3× slower, in Carbone
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20:00 Calinou the acceleration values are close to Minecraft's, but the way Minetest handles acceleration is very strange
20:01 kilbith in Carbone, you feels like a rocket, especially jump+run from the water
20:02 PenguinDad kilbith: in minetest_game I feel like a rock :/
20:03 Calinou jump-run in water is like if you swam IRL
20:03 Calinou did you ever watch swimming championships? :D
20:03 kilbith no i mean jump+run from water to air
20:04 kilbith 3-4m of jumping, staying during several seconds in air
20:04 Calinou oh, run as in fast_mode
20:04 Calinou the point of fast_mode is mostly for admins and testing
20:04 Calinou it is intentionally very fast
20:05 kilbith also, the skidding is exagerate
20:05 kilbith ~3m whenever you're ending a run
20:06 Calinou not worse than Minetest
20:06 Calinou if you keep holding the fast_mode key
20:06 Calinou anyway, gtg, bye
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20:48 Megaf #1934
20:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1934 -- TAB auto complete will no longer work on console.
20:48 Megaf ^
20:57 sfan5 PilzAdam: my vote on what?
20:58 PilzAdam <PilzAdam> nore, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/174 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/375 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/366 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/354 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/338
20:58 PilzAdam nore agreed on all of these
21:06 kilbith wow, obsidian bricks pull is so old...
21:06 kilbith texture is outdated
21:07 kilbith the current obsidian is different
21:11 PilzAdam textures are not that important, they can be changed later
21:13 kilbith and i don't like that trend of making bricks from any material
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