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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-12-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 realbadangel fixed issue #1902
00:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1902 -- Meshnodes with facedir 0 have bad smooth lighting
00:16 zat hey devs remove items number limits on cooking recipes!
00:21 realbadangel zat. what for?
00:22 zat so recipes for alloys and such can finally be made
00:23 VanessaE he wants to be able to stick two iron in a single cooking slot I guess, like with technic's alloy furnace
00:23 VanessaE or similar.
00:24 zat iron and copper and make... whats the alloy that resuts from that? :P
00:24 zat or was it zinc and copper
00:24 VanessaE NOTHING reasonable is made from copper+iron
00:24 VanessaE (however two copper + one tin is bronze I think)
00:24 VanessaE (if one is using correct and proper recipes)
00:25 exio4 what kind of simple problem I could write that interacts with the user in a dumb way (reading from console) and does something fancy?
00:25 exio4 hmm
00:25 exio4 oh, this isn't main channel
00:25 exio4 sorry
00:26 zat thing is that I suggest that recipes registering should not enforce limits because
00:26 zat 1.- this would loose binding between recipes and nodes for crafting
00:26 zat 2.- whoever wants to make crafting tables or furnaces WON'T have to code their own framework for alternate recipes
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00:31 paramat BTW zat is developing awesome stuff so as long as it's reasonable im backing these requests =)
00:31 zat (lol)
00:36 realbadangel zat, if something can be done easily with a mod it means that engine is flexible enough
00:36 realbadangel and doesnt have to be changed
00:37 realbadangel if that wouldnt be possible, that will be another story and a reason for request
00:37 zat it can be done with the engine, yes, easily? no... its duplicating code
00:37 zat it can be done with a MOD, yes, easily? no... its duplicating code
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00:37 realbadangel technic does all that without modifications to the engine, so it is possible
00:39 zat that it is possible by adding a lot of duplicate code, modspace, and duplicating an already existing api in order to add a feature that could easily be added to the engine is possible, does it mean that it is the best?
00:40 realbadangel not really
00:40 realbadangel it means it is already working
00:40 realbadangel and we all have much more important things to do that reinventing the wheel ;)
00:40 realbadangel *than
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00:41 realbadangel at some point we could allow that for engine, but now we shall focus on upcoming xmas release and fix more critical issues
00:42 zat what that mod does is working around a lack of flexibility of the engine. does it work? probably it does, still it makes using such features much more cumbersome, starting with the fact that I have to depend on a particular mod in order to gain said feature
00:42 zat realbadangel: I am not asking anyone to make it, I want to know how well accepted the idea would be
00:42 zat so I can implement it...
00:42 realbadangel if you code it i will merge it
00:43 realbadangel enough?
00:43 zat realbadangel: more than enough
00:43 realbadangel so deal
00:45 paramat kewl
00:49 realbadangel paramat, kewl what?
00:50 paramat the above
00:51 zat hint: read above
00:51 realbadangel ah
00:52 realbadangel zat, while you will be adding that feature, think of custom craft types
00:53 realbadangel not only hardcoded ones as we have by now
00:53 zat hows that?
00:53 zat you mean accept custom strings?
00:54 realbadangel no, i mean craft types registration by mods
00:54 realbadangel atm theyre hardcoded in the engine
00:54 zat no no yes I got that
00:55 zat so other than cooking or normal etc...
00:55 realbadangel they all should be registered by lua mod
00:55 realbadangel and engine should not carry ANY hardcoded type
00:55 zat sounds good
00:56 realbadangel this way we will get clean engine way to register any craft recipe
00:57 realbadangel and any subgame will be able to get own ones
00:58 zat has anyone worked in a mods manager that can resolve dependencies?
00:59 realbadangel not my area
01:00 zat that would be good
01:00 zat anyone who is interested: make it like nodejs's npm :P
01:04 realbadangel such things are problematic always. and best resolver is always human's mind
01:05 realbadangel but some are just too lazy ;)
01:05 zat naaaaaa
01:10 realbadangel anyway i can just comment such thing, havent even touched that code before
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02:22 Zeno` realbadangel, are you here?
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02:47 Zeno` hmmmm, #1904
02:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1904 -- Fix MSVC build by SmallJoker
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03:16 electrodude512 gitk
03:16 electrodude512 derp, nvm, wrong terminal
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04:20 paramat in lua, within 'minetest.register_on_mapgen_init(function(mg_params)' how would i check the presence of a certain mapgen flag?: 'if mg_params.flags <contains> "biomes" then'
04:27 paramat while on the subject, here's my addition of a 'biomes' mapgen flag, i guessed and used 0x12 in '#define MG_BIOMES 0x12' in mapgen.h
04:27 paramat https://github.com/paramat/minetest/commit/6268e42296ef95c9ddcf72831ded4575688ef0c5
04:28 Zeno` it should be 0x20
04:29 Zeno` 0x12 is 0x08 | 0x04 (i.e. DUNGEONS + LIGHT)
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04:29 Zeno` err not that, but still
04:30 Zeno` it's a combination of two bits, and these look like they're bitwise flags
04:30 n4x if you are using bits as flags, the next value should be 0x0F
04:30 Zeno` no
04:30 VanessaE uh, no.
04:30 n4x er
04:30 Zeno` F is 1111
04:30 VanessaE unless 0x10 is used, then 0x20 is correct.
04:31 VanessaE (and 10 is indeed used)
04:32 kahrl I guess you guys aren't into the decimal system but have you celebrated the milestone of 1000 closed PRs yet?
04:33 Zeno` kahrl, I haven't I will celebrate tonight!
04:33 Zeno` paramat, that 0x20 was meant for you, by the way ;)
04:33 kahrl we should have a dev party
04:33 Zeno` count me in!
04:33 Zeno` kahrl, you're bringing the beer
04:33 kahrl nah I'm poor
04:34 Zeno` I'll see if a sponsor will give us a few kegs then
04:34 paramat thanks
04:41 paramat i need to learn about bitwise stuff
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05:09 hmmmm well sheezy
05:09 hmmmm paramat:  I have a proposal
05:10 hmmmm if you were serious about multiple BiomeManagers, why not have a "null" biome manager that generates without biomes?
05:10 paramat hi
05:10 hmmmm adding stuff like new mapgen flag parameters is okay but you have to realize they're permanent once a release is made
05:12 paramat 'multiple biomemanagers' meaning multiple biome systems?
05:12 hmmmm yeah, that's how it would be implemented
05:13 hmmmm class BiomeManagerParamat : public BiomeManager {   u8 getBiome( .... ); // this is my override of getBiome! ...
05:14 paramat so the one null biomemanger would access each mapgen and create base terran only?
05:14 hmmmm hmm
05:14 paramat sorry that my programming skills and knowledge of terminology is not great
05:14 hmmmm I think not having any biomes is the wrong way to think about it
05:15 hmmmm "no biomes" would just be having a single biome registered, grass or whatever
05:15 paramat (i used to program BASIC in the 80s heh)
05:15 hmmmm 80s?
05:15 hmmmm you're older then lol
05:15 paramat lol
05:15 hmmmm i don't know why i always thought you were in your early 20s
05:16 paramat started programming at age 11 with a 48kb sinclair ZX spectrum
05:16 hmmmm that's awesome
05:16 paramat oh im very youthful =] look half my age too
05:16 hmmmm did you just never bother making a career out of coding?
05:16 hmmmm it's very lucrative
05:16 paramat i should never have stopped
05:18 paramat when i left home age 22 i stopped programming
05:18 paramat yeah good idea i'll look into coding
05:18 paramat as i prefer to work from home
05:20 paramat hm anyway i guess a flag is too permanent yes
05:21 paramat i can't release default biomes for mgv5/v7 without allowing players to disable them
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05:48 hmmmm hmmm
05:49 hmmmm well
05:49 hmmmm when you say default biomes you actually are referring to biomes included with the minetest default game
05:49 hmmmm when i say default biome i mean the biome that's hardcoded into the biomemanager so it doesn't explode if nothing's registered
05:51 hmmmm i think it's best to include a 'clear biomes' api and make a note that one or more mods will compete with each other if they both register biomes
05:51 hmmmm mods shouldn't even be using biomes right now because it's technically undocumented and may be changed at any given time
05:51 hmmmm because biomes suck because i never got around to fixing them
05:52 hmmmm there was always something more important that needs to be coded *right now*
05:56 Zeno` hmmmm, can I merge #1904 please? I'm asking you specifically because of the typo (see comments)
05:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1904 -- Fix MSVC build by SmallJoker
05:57 hmmmm oh shoot
05:57 hmmmm how the hell did that pass my own unit tests
05:57 Zeno` false cast to 0.0
05:57 hmmmm hmm
05:58 Zeno` np.persist == 0.7 -> false
05:58 * paramat reads
05:58 hmmmm why
05:58 hmmmm OHH
05:58 hmmmm because of floating point round off
05:58 Zeno` yep
05:58 hmmmm and it just so happens that under MSVC, their atof() is more accurate
05:58 Zeno` so it would then get cast to 0.0 and the unit test passes ;)
05:59 hmmmm this is such an awesome bug
05:59 Zeno` I'm guessing that on MSVC an implicit cast from bool to double is an error
05:59 Zeno` rather than a warning that probably only shows up with -Wextra
05:59 hmmmm as for src/hud.cpp, that's sapier's doing, not my own.  i did make a stdint.h mistake once though.
06:00 Zeno` I have no idea about the hud.cpp changes but they look obviously correct
06:00 hmmmm thank you smalljoker
06:00 hmmmm i'm glad there are people out there who actually try building with MSVC
06:02 Zeno` yeah :)
06:04 Zeno` ok, will merge now
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06:12 Zeno` I'd also like to merge #1853 (which is my last outstanding PR) so I can clean up my @*$(@ working repo
06:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1853 -- Add name of node pointed at to debug by Zeno-
06:13 hmmmm looks good
06:13 Zeno` ok will do. Thank you
06:27 paramat time to nap before a possible orion launch O/
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11:25 Zeno` Anyone here familiar with particle spawners?
11:29 jin_xi kind of
11:30 Zeno` jin_xi, do you know where/how they are supposed to be deleted?
11:30 Zeno` because they're leaking
11:30 Zeno` a lot
11:31 jin_xi i made a pull (very wip) to replace them with irrlichts ones
11:32 Zeno` hmm
11:32 Zeno` http://pastebin.com/CDBDPvDw
11:32 Zeno` those lines are the source of the leaks
11:34 jin_xi there are many 'new's
11:35 Zeno` yeah, and I cannot find where they're being deleted (they're obviously not); I guess the better question might be where are they supposed to be deleted?
11:36 Zeno` and when?
11:36 jin_xi theres delete_particlespawner but i dont think it deletes anything else but the id of the spawner...
11:37 jin_xi whole particles code is a mess, i specially like how parameters are read from lua.
11:38 jin_xi https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_particles.cpp#L62
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11:40 Zeno` hmm yeah
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11:46 jin_xi historically particles were first done entirely via lua and entities, then c++ + GL_QUADS was added... later it was messed up even more when forced horizontal particles were added
11:46 Zeno` they can't even BE deleted
11:47 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/game.cpp#L3007
11:48 jin_xi entire system should be replaced and irrlicht particles used instead
11:48 Zeno` I can't see how that memory allocation can be deleted because the reference to the memory is not even stored (as far as I can tell)
11:50 Zeno` same with line 2992
11:52 Zeno` I can't even understand what that's supposed to be doing lol
11:59 jin_xi so particles were originally done this way because it was not clear if/how irrlicht can do colliding particles
12:01 jin_xi https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1700/ this pull adds irrlicht particles and collision detection but does not much else
12:03 Zeno` hmm
12:03 Zeno` that PR doesn't address the issue in game.cpp though
12:03 Zeno` the code that seems to do nothing at all
12:04 Zeno` Do you know who wrote the current code? Maybe they know
12:04 jin_xi jeija i think
12:10 jin_xi well, im trying to get someone capable looking at particles for a long time now, as my knowlege of c++ is as lacking and ancient.
12:20 kilbith realbadangel ^
12:23 Zeno` jin_xi, good memory
12:23 Zeno` Jan 2013
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12:29 Zeno` well it's broken, that's all I can tell at the moment
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12:33 Zeno` jin_xi, if you can fix all these issues I'll support your PR :P
12:33 jin_xi yeah right
12:33 Zeno` ?
12:34 Zeno` I will... the current system is broken. It's even more confusing than code I write
12:34 jin_xi as i said, i can not do it...
12:35 Zeno` you want me to chat to RBA if you're not around?
12:35 jin_xi look, all i did was figureing out how to do collision with irrlicht particles, as it was given as the reason mt has rolled its own
12:36 Zeno` maybe your way is better
12:36 jin_xi so, i hope it helps someone to replace current particles, but i can not do it
12:36 jin_xi anyway, bbl
12:36 Zeno` ok, I'll talk with RBA and see what he's doing with it
13:45 Zeno` kahrl, I managed to get a sponsor to buy some beer for the party
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17:09 * Krock thinks, Zeno` should merge the pull requests slowlier but more exact (reference flood at #1887 )
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17:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1887 -- Lighting artifacts
17:10 GhostDoge Krock: *more slowly
17:13 Krock whatever.
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17:34 Zeno` Krock, what?
17:36 Zeno` 1887 is not a merge
17:36 Zeno` it's an issue
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17:39 * Zeno` thinks Krock should concentrate on more important issues
17:42 Krock Zeno`, I meant the messages of "Zeno- referenced this issue from a commit in Zeno-/minetest 4 days ago"
17:42 Zeno` Yeah I have no idea why that happened. The merges are the same
17:43 Zeno` Perhaps some person(s) asked me to change the commit
17:43 Zeno` I can't remember
17:43 Zeno` it's not an issue
17:44 Krock Zeno`, it happens because someone changed the commit's contents, I would call that 'amend'
17:44 Zeno` of course
17:45 Zeno` Stop concentrating in minutia and look at the bigger issues. Please.
17:45 Zeno` there was only ONE commit/merge
17:45 VanessaE FINALLY someone said it
17:45 realbadangel hi all
17:47 VanessaE hi RBA
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17:48 Krock VanessaE, said what?
17:49 VanessaE Krock: [12-05 12:48] <Zeno`> Stop concentrating in minutia and look at the bigger issues. Please.
17:49 VanessaE that happens a lot around here.
17:50 Krock Really? I haven't seen it that frequent yet. Nvm. It's just a 'view' issue
17:50 realbadangel i guess we will have more issues like that until we change lighting system
17:50 Krock I've the feeling, a new lighting system will require more CPU power
17:51 VanessaE unlikely
17:51 VanessaE and it would use the GPU probably.
17:52 Krock Yeah. GPU is a much better soulation for those things
17:57 twoelk Eh? why is it only a much better solution? I thought it was invented to be THE solution, it is the reason the GPU exists :-D
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18:08 Krock twoelk, just minetest doesn't use all GPU power yet :/
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18:09 twoelk all? does it use any?
18:09 twoelk not counting what the OS assigns anyways
18:10 Krock I think OpenGL is hardware-based, so it's more effective than the software render
18:11 Krock -think +know
18:11 GhostDoge twoelk: even the software renderer uses gpu power
18:12 Krock GhostDoge, yeah. the screen must be drawn somehow <.<
18:12 twoelk ah
18:12 * twoelk doesn't like his own tone and goes for a mining spree enjoying the deep down wonders of lavalakes
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20:33 paramat MTgame team, lua pinetree generation and pine sapling growth is ready for merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/366#issuecomment-65749940
20:34 VanessaE no moretrees nodes' compatibility :'(
20:35 paramat explain what needs to be done, i fix
20:35 VanessaE nothing, it just means I'll have to add some if's and aliases in moretrees :) :)
20:35 * VanessaE erases the extra smiley.
20:35 paramat phew okay
20:36 VanessaE I have to wonder why you use a vmanip here instead of L-systems though
20:37 VanessaE (I'm sure it works perfectly fine, just seems like a ton of code by comparison)
20:38 paramat pines are near-identical to mg pines, it's sfan5's design
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20:48 GhostDoge VanessaE: The l-system implementation is a ton of code too ;)
20:49 hmmmm so fun that nobody is going to implement L-system decorations aside from me :/
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20:56 Krock L-system is too difficult to understand for me somehow
21:06 VanessaE in such a situation, I'd just spawn saplings at mapgen time, and let an ABM with chance 1, interval 1 grow them.
21:09 realbadangel what is so difficult in l-system trees?
21:09 VanessaE nothing at all, but I think the issue here is not having the necessary hooks in the mapgen "decorations" system to spawn them natively
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21:13 realbadangel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2294
21:13 realbadangel all the code needed to spawn a tree
21:15 realbadangel same structure is aviable on engine side, so its same dead simple
21:18 realbadangel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/treegen.h#L38
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21:18 realbadangel and then just call this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/treegen.h#L68
21:23 hmmmm oh, that seems pretty simple
21:23 hmmmm so lsystem decorations would be just a decoration wrapper around TreeDef and some "spawn near node" type of things
21:24 realbadangel https://github.com/VanessaE/moretrees/blob/master/tree_models.lua#L1
21:24 hmmmm and generate() could just call make_ltree()
21:24 realbadangel here you go with all the models you would need
21:24 hmmmm the only thing i fear is the cutoff
21:24 VanessaE hmmmm: yes, more or less like that.  take a look how I use the code in moretrees/plants_liv
21:24 VanessaE lib*
21:24 hmmmm those lsystem trees get really tall
21:25 realbadangel not all of them
21:25 hmmmm alright
21:25 VanessaE that cutoff issue was fixed a long time ago, I thought?
21:25 hmmmm nope =/
21:25 hmmmm i wrote code for it but long story short it sucks
21:25 realbadangel beech is about the size of old trees
21:25 VanessaE strange, I never see even the biggest ones get cut off in my test worlds (delete map, re-gen, repeat) but, *shrug*
21:25 hmmmm only issue I see is if I add this, i'm going to get moaning and groaning from people filing bug reports about how their lsystem trees got cut off
21:26 VanessaE (biggest being the giant sequoia)
21:26 VanessaE they USED to get cut up pretty bad, but I could swear someone fixed that a while back.
21:27 realbadangel hmmmm, i havent saw any cut off trees for quite a while
21:27 hmmmm that's because you write them to the map with spawn_ltree....
21:28 VanessaE gotta run.  bbl
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21:43 kahrl is this a known issue? mgv6 sometimes generates air "holes" between land and ocean
21:43 kahrl for example, next to the spawn jungle on seed 0: http://i.imgur.com/HYQa3Wx.png
21:44 kahrl before I could make the screenshot, the nodes below the junglegrass and where the flowing water is were air
21:44 kahrl of course then liquid update kicked in
21:45 kahrl in a previously generated map with the same kind of issue, liquid update never happened and there were just holes
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21:48 Krock kahrl, that's nothing new
21:48 kahrl ah, I thought so
21:48 kahrl never noticed it though for some reason
21:48 Krock I only noticed it with extreme mountain and ocean worlds
21:49 Krock with many height diffrernces and caves
21:49 kahrl you mean with modified noise params?
21:49 Krock exactly
21:49 kahrl well this is with the default params so perhaps it could be more seen as a bug
21:50 hmmmm did it exist in 0.4.3?
21:50 kahrl let me check
21:50 hmmmm (i.e. did I mess that up somehow??)
21:51 hmmmm if anything i bet that's caused by caves
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21:52 Krock Question: Are there any 'vector.*' functions I should add in my next pull request (except of vector.floor())?
21:53 GhostDoge Krock: vector.ceil maybe?
21:54 Krock added
21:54 kahrl hmmmm: looks like it existed
21:55 kahrl liquid update happens quite fast in 0.4.3 though so it's hard to see
21:56 kahrl yeah, it's definitely there in 0.4.3
21:57 Krock kahrl, does the function name 'math.get_sign(x)' look okay for you?
21:58 kahrl Krock: where is it?
21:58 Krock kahrl, on my screen. it should return -1 when the number is negative and 1 when it's positive
21:58 Krock useful for directions
21:59 kahrl sounds good, isn't it usually called just sgn though?
21:59 kahrl so math.sgn
21:59 Krock *math.sign?
22:01 kahrl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_function calls it sgn
22:01 kahrl my math professors usually called it that as well
22:02 Krock hmm google returned me Math.Sign() from C#
22:03 kahrl you could add both ;)
22:03 kahrl math.sign = math.sgn
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22:05 Krock :/
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22:18 Krock #1907
22:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1907 -- Add Lua helper functions by SmallJoker
22:21 Krock Slightly extended the math.sign() function with a limiter - it prevents from rounding if required
22:26 kahrl s/If the number is smaller/If the absolute value is smaller/
22:27 kahrl I'd call the variable limit in the implementation too for clarity
22:29 Krock Thanks for the improvement. Updated the commit
22:29 Krock hmm
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