Time  Nick       Message
02:03 paramat    okay hmmmm this is rebased and ready for review/merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1892 (add definable node_stone to mgv5 and mgv7, plus other stuff)
02:17 paramat    https://cdn.mediacru.sh/1w9qknwcgA1I.png caves are making a mess of mgv7, especially at y = 47, good thing they will be replaced with 3D noise caves. also i would like to add 1 up 1 down overgeneration to mgv7
02:40 paramat    there is a problem with the idea of auto scaling heat and humidity spreads from number of biomes: it is usually necessary to stack biomes vertically, to have beaches and highland biomes, floatland biomes etc
02:46 paramat    so i have a request, if you able to find time, please could you make the heat and humidity noises settable in .conf? this solves other problems as well
04:51 paramat    ah .. biomes is written for worlds without overhangs. biome for each entire mapchunk column is set from the highest surface in the mapchunk. this can't cope with vertically stacked biomes or overhangs, biome needs to be recalculated each time a new top surface is detected. i will fix! =)
05:00 hmmmm      hi paramat
05:00 hmmmm      err....
05:00 hmmmm      he left within 5 minutes
05:01 hmmmm      in any case, yeah I know about the overhang biome problem... the only real solution to this is to define a "biome class" which correlates to one or more biomes existing between different heights
05:02 hmmmm      or make biomes use 3d noise (gross!)
09:02 hmmmm      https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/367448805ebb6ac3117d2687e3aac1b94e919a33
09:02 hmmmm      objections??
14:07 paramat    sorry hmmmmm i was busy. now i see what you mean by biomes being in a bad way, and understand why you can afford to calculate biomes from voronoi: because it's only done once per mapchunk. i will contemplate a solution, perhaps recalculating at beach level and defining beach/ocean biomes. anyway this means mgv5 biomes will still be unstable for 0.4.11
14:12 paramat    mgv7 is awesome but needs tuning, yes i am offering to do this after 0.4.11, i can also add 3D noise caves
15:24 jin_xi     yeah so good to see you doing c++ mapgen work paramat!
15:26 paramat    =)
15:26 * Megaf_   would like to write its own mapgen in lua...
15:26 Megaf_     I just a need a flat surface
15:27 Megaf_     with a very specific block
15:32 paramat    there's a mod for that somewhere
15:34 Amaz       https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9772 ?
15:36 paramat    yep
15:38 hmmmm      paramat!
15:38 hmmmm      i needed to talk to you about something
15:39 hmmmm      oh i see
15:40 paramat    hi
15:40 hmmmm      right so like I was saying, the current way I have biomes is retarded and i want to change it
15:41 hmmmm      having an absolute min_height/max_height for biomes makes it impossible to precalculate a biome correlation map
15:42 paramat    yes im seeing the problems now
15:42 hmmmm      btw, how did you solve the issue of dirt_with_grass being placed beneath water?
15:43 paramat    lol i didn't, just let it be there
15:43 hmmmm      eww =/
15:43 hmmmm      so yeah that brings up yet another issue with biomes and overhangs
15:44 paramat    however that will be solved if we get biomes working, so i couldn't be bothered to worry about that
15:44 hmmmm      so what if underneath the overhang there's a pool of water, and the biome stays as plains instead of beach
15:44 paramat    im working on a hack (sorry) that i'll push soon for you to see
15:45 hmmmm      the original idea was to have a separate "ocean" biome
15:46 hmmmm      which has top_node == default:dirt rather than default:dirt_with_grass
15:46 hmmmm      so I'm wondering if there is still merit in keeping absolute min/max heights
15:48 paramat    my hack calculates an 'ocean/beach biomemap' calculated with y = water_level + 3
15:49 paramat    then define ocean/beach biomes below the land/floatland biomes
15:49 paramat    still has bugs but will now push
15:51 hmmmm      wait but that's no good
15:51 paramat    i only discovered all this because i couldn't get sheet ice to work
15:51 hmmmm      it'd have to be y == water_level or else it'd still place the dirt with grass
15:52 paramat    yes i see a problem there
15:53 paramat    maybe biome definition will have to include a 'node_beach'
15:53 paramat    place that near water level
15:53 hmmmm      aghh
15:53 hmmmm      all these different node_thingies
15:53 hmmmm      i was honestly considering having some hard-coded biomes that do special things that registered biomes won't be able to do
15:54 hmmmm      you'd be able to remove them, but not add any new ones
15:54 hmmmm      yes? no?
15:54 hmmmm      the reason why Minecraft has none of these problems is because it's all hardcoded to shit
15:54 paramat    possibly
15:55 paramat    i can see why you got frustrated
15:56 paramat    i feel like persevering with what we have though and improve it, many people like it
15:56 paramat    but hey why not have another mapgen system? if you're inspired do it
15:57 paramat    there's always room for specialist mapgens
15:57 paramat    .. and multiple biome systems
15:57 hmmmm      that is true
15:57 hmmmm      multiple biome systems sounds like a horror
15:58 hmmmm      all i know for sure is that i absolutely hate the current biome system
15:58 twoelk     maybe beach should not be like other biomes but rather look for other things like flatland besides water of at least some volume and thus override other biom info
15:59 Megaf_     Thanks Amaz !
15:59 paramat    hmmmmm you're fed up with it so i'll see what i can do with it. if you come up with a better system that can then be the primary system, no problem
16:00 paramat    i really feel future mapgens should make use of the vertical space, so vertically stacked or 'floatland' biomes need to be coped with
16:01 paramat    i see your 'nether' 'aether' type biomes in the code, hope to see these developed
16:02 twoelk     btw underwatergrass = seagrass-meadows (me dreaming of lovely places I remember visiting)
16:04 VanessaE   what's wrong with grass under the water?
16:06 PenguinDad twoelk: why not underwater grass == algae?
16:07 paramat    its okay when it's intentional
16:11 twoelk     seagrass-meadows are beautiful to swim through, algae can be a lot gloomier at times, at least some sorts
16:13 paramat    hmmmm since mgv7 is your mapgen you could perhaps develop a new biome system in that while i see what i can do with improving the current system in mgv5. both mapgen are highly unstable anyway so we might as well experiment
16:17 paramat    so far i'm thinkng adding node_beach, node_underwater etc to a biome definition to cope with the verticality, making biomes strictly 2D. need a nap bbl O/
17:51 Calinou    One or more parameters were invalid or use too much memory
17:51 Calinou    how to fix?
17:51 Calinou    it breaks my worlds
17:52 VanessaE   perlin parameters - probably number of octaves
17:56 rubenwardy celeron55: why is there no subgame section on minetest.net? I would suggest making a top level item called "Customisation" and putting mods, texture packs and subgames underneath it in the drop down.
18:32 VanessaE   shit, I get the same error as Calinou now
18:33 Calinou    report on issue tracker?
18:33 Calinou    this is a blocker
18:33 VanessaE   blocker outright.
18:33 VanessaE   this breaks a known good world that barely has any use at all (one of my testing worlds)
18:34 VanessaE   (mgv6, default mapgen params, not even 0.1% explored)
18:36 VanessaE   nearly every single world in my list is broken now.
18:37 twoelk     :-(
19:15 celeron55  rubenwardy: so, how exactly do you want it to be like, then?
19:16 Calinou    probably add popular subgames to it, like Mods and  Texture Packs
19:16 Calinou    (by the way, both of these should be updated)
19:17 rubenwardy I guess like (popular) mods, but for games.
19:17 rubenwardy Suggesting in this topic https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10675
19:17 celeron55  is this good? http://c55.me/test/minetest.net/doku.php
19:18 celeron55  actually now that there is space, i'll move screenshots away from downloads
19:18 rubenwardy yes
19:18 rubenwardy perfect
19:18 VanessaE   that's good actually.  and, screenshots under Community I think.
19:19 celeron55  what? why?
19:19 rubenwardy Screenshots and features lists are the first things I look for when visiting a new site
19:19 VanessaE   no specific reason, I'm just not one to have lots of top-level menu items is all
19:20 VanessaE   besides, "Have a look at some screenshots, taken by the community."
19:20 VanessaE   :)
19:20 rubenwardy No, I think screenshots on top level. You could put development and donate under "contribute", if you are low on space.
19:20 rubenwardy But, meg
19:20 rubenwardy *h
19:20 * Krock    gives celeron55 © #footer
19:21 rubenwardy blue headers actually look quite nice.
19:21 celeron55  lol, looks like the layout breaks when i moved donate away from top level (i don't think it needs to be there)
19:21 Krock      I would prefer a dashed line under the sub-headers
19:22 Krock      But well, it's already much better than the current
19:22 rubenwardy You probably hard coded in CSS the last navbar to be donate.
19:22 rubenwardy XD
19:22 celeron55  gaah
19:22 celeron55  i'm not interested in fixing this layout for a non-donate last link
19:22 rubenwardy nth-child(last), iirc
19:23 celeron55  i'll put screenshots there
19:23 Krock      Ah and the "Developement" tab is cut-off
19:23 rubenwardy Layout looks fine except the drop down being cropped.
19:24 celeron55  hmm, 6 seems to be one too much in my eyes
19:24 celeron55  i'll leave fixing the dropdown to someone who is most annoyed by it
19:26 celeron55  now minetest.net is updated and the repo of that layout is here if someone wants to fix it: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_dokutemplate3
19:27 celeron55  and these two pages need to be created: http://minetest.net/customize http://minetest.net/subgames
19:28 rubenwardy I am creating subgames
19:28 celeron55  the "customize" page should contain links to each of the dropdown pages (in addition to some other content it may have)
19:28 celeron55  well i'll add a stub version of it
19:35 rubenwardy Suggestions for popular subgames? http://www.minetest.net/subgames
19:35 rubenwardy Actually, I'll look at the server list
19:37 celeron55  i fixed the cut-in-half dropdown now
19:37 rubenwardy Yay :)
19:38 celeron55  well you have an error on the page
19:38 rubenwardy The image resizing is broken.
19:38 celeron55  "More mods are available on the forum"
19:38 rubenwardy fixed
19:40 celeron55  i have no idea about image resizing
19:40 celeron55  i haven't seen any errors from dokuwiki
19:40 celeron55  so i have no practical way of fixing it
19:41 rubenwardy This image should have a width of 200: http://www.minetest.net/_media/screenshot_4031722052.png?w=200
19:41 rubenwardy It doesn't seem to be going through a php script
19:41 rubenwardy etc
19:42 celeron55  maybe the server doesn't have libgd nor imagemagick
19:42 celeron55  i have no control over that in that hosting really
19:42 celeron55  or maybe the cache is just broken in whatever way
19:43 celeron55  looks like it has imagemagick
19:45 celeron55  bleh, i really am not interested in fighting with this so live with it
19:46 celeron55  one day i'll move it to some other host
19:46 celeron55  (or maybe i'll die before that)
20:11 twoelk     rubenwardy: you could link to the wiki http://wiki.minetest.net/Games
20:11 twoelk     or even here http://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Games
20:11 kilbith    why "donations" link has disappeared ? money is the "nerve of war" as we said here
21:11 celeron55  kilbith: "development" dropdown
21:35 VanessaE   ok.  rollback_check is insanely slow with a check radius of 0.  e.g. /rollback_check 0 9999999
21:35 VanessaE   takes an insane amount of time
21:36 VanessaE   (radius 0 is supposed to be "only check *this* node", is it not?)
23:00 VanessaE   netsplit?