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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-11-30

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02:31 hmmmm hey guys, what are your opinions on escaped strings in the config?
02:31 hmmmm I am thinking of doing it backwards, like instead of a string having special chars escaped, all the special chars are escaped to begin with
02:32 hmmmm adding multi-line string settings while i'm doing this other thing because why not
02:47 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Um, I already did that...
02:48 hmmmm what?
02:48 ShadowNinja #1684
02:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1684 -- Add multi-line settings and setting escapes by ShadowNinja
02:49 hmmmm ah
02:49 hmmmm this is implemented in a totally different manner though
02:49 hmmmm in fact, what I wrote so far nukes everything in your commit
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02:52 hmmmm ShadowNinja, this is a lot simpler.  if """ is the value for a config setting all by itself, the next lines will be the multi-lined text until it sees the next """ on a line by itself
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03:09 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Ah.  You could also do the same with single quotes, since they'll probably not be at the start of a value.
03:09 ShadowNinja Er, single double-quotes (").
03:11 hmmmm i wanted to use three double-quotes because that's the multiline-text specifier for pytho
03:11 hmmmm python
03:12 hmmmm and it's pretty rare
03:12 hmmmm i'm not bothering with escaping the text because that gets messy and it's not worth it in general
03:21 kahrl hmmmm: you could use serializeJsonStringIfNeeded from inventory.cpp
03:21 hmmmm absolutely disgusting
03:21 hmmmm this is not quite json
03:22 hmmmm http://fpaste.org/155226/41731774/
03:22 kahrl that function leaves the string unchanged if there is nothing to escape
03:23 hmmmm so basically the parser is super simple
03:24 hmmmm parseConfigObject returns events now
03:24 hmmmm could be a comment, a key-value pair, a group ({}), a multiline value, etc.
03:25 hmmmm i also fixed updateConfigFile.  not that it didn't work, but holy crap...
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03:27 hmmmm settings are maps from strings to SettingsEntry, which is a struct with a string or a Settings *.  if the settings * is not-NULL, then it has child settings.  you can get settings from groups by either doing something like:  Settings *mapgen_config = g_settings->get("mapgen");  mapgen_config->get("seed");  or you could do g_settings->get("mapgen.seed");
03:27 hmmmm yes? no?
03:28 hmmmm as for setting defaults in settings sub-trees, i haven't figured that one out.  there's no elegant interface there.
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03:30 kahrl imo get() should return string and throw an error if the setting is actually a group
03:31 hmmmm get() already returns a string
03:31 kahrl have a getGroup() that returns a child settings object
03:31 hmmmm oh, whoops
03:31 hmmmm yeah, sorry.  there's getEntry() now.  get() just returns getEntry().value, and getChildren() returns getEntry().children
03:32 kahrl sounds good
03:34 kahrl how do you handle the case where one thread uses a child settings object and another thread deletes it?
03:35 hmmmm i don't!  user beware, don't delete children Settings objects
03:36 hmmmm at first I was going to have getChildren return a deep copy of a std::map<std::string, SettingsEntry> but that'd be a bit awkward to handle
03:39 kahrl what if one thread calls g_settings->set("blah", "something") and setting blah was a group? that would delete the child settings object, right? does every caller have to check for that case?
03:40 hmmmm that's one piece of behavior i haven't decided on yet
03:41 hmmmm i think what i'm going to have it do is what it does right now, which is lets it succeed, but doesn't get written back to the config file
03:41 hmmmm or maybe write two entries; blah = something \n blah = { ...child settings here... }
03:42 kahrl I prefer the second version
03:42 hmmmm same..
03:53 ShadowNinja Groups would be great -- just make it accessible from Lua too.
03:53 ShadowNinja And if \n and friends aren't escaped in keys throw some kind or error if you try to use them.
03:54 ShadowNinja (That was a security issue in my security branch)
03:54 hmmmm security issue?
03:55 ShadowNinja Seems like only [a-zA-Z0-9_-.] should be allowed.
03:55 hmmmm maybe from lua... i dunno...
03:55 ShadowNinja hmmmm: minetest.setting_set("foo=tr​ue\nsecure.enable_security", "false")
03:56 hmmmm multiline is for values, not keys
03:56 ShadowNinja Causes a problem when reloaded.
03:56 hmmmm ahhhh
03:56 hmmmm i see what you're saying now
03:56 hmmmm that's clever
03:57 hmmmm though, isn't that true with the current Settings?
03:57 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Yes, just while you're at it.
03:57 hmmmm security in settings deserves a closer look
03:59 ShadowNinja if (!string_allowed(name, ...) throw UnsupportedOperationException("Only alphanumeric characters, underscores, and dashes allowed in setting keys");
04:00 ShadowNinja Just something like that in set((.
04:00 hmmmm have to do the same thing for keys
04:00 hmmmm erm values
04:00 ShadowNinja Make foo.bar = true equivalent to foo = { bar = true } too
04:00 hmmmm also need to check to make sure they're not inserting a multiline specifier
04:01 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Yes, although I'd just make them escape properly.
04:01 ShadowNinja (values that is)
04:02 hmmmm agh the escaping
04:02 hmmmm no escapes!  escaping strings opens a can of worms
04:03 kahrl how so?
04:03 hmmmm more potential security issues, more code complexity, more confusing to look at, etc.  I'd personally rather have my settings a little bit less flexible instead
04:03 hmmmm if you can't write """ in a piece of multiline text... well then
04:04 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Alright, sanitize it then.
04:04 kahrl serializeJsonStringIfNeeded has been around for a long time without issues
04:04 hmmmm actually
04:04 kahrl it's also tested
04:04 hmmmm you can still write """ in multiline text
04:04 hmmmm it just can't be on a line all on its own
04:05 hmmmm i'll check out the serializeJsonStringIfNeeded
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04:05 kahrl well, serializeJsonString is tested to be fully exact
04:05 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Er, so are the leading and trailing newlines stripped?
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04:06 hmmmm not for multiline text
04:06 hmmmm http://fpaste.org/155226/41731774/
04:07 hmmmm actually what i pasted is a tiny bit inaccurate.. the closing """ would not be indented otherwise that line would be treated as another part of the multiline string
04:08 ShadowNinja hmmmm: So that produces "\ntext begins here....\n"?
04:08 hmmmm no beginning and trailing \ns
04:08 hmmmm intermediate newlines are kept
04:08 hmmmm so that text would be:
04:08 ShadowNinja I'd prefer if leading indentation was stripped, but that would be trickier.
04:09 hmmmm "text begins here\nwhitespace is not removed\n   in a multiline string"
04:09 hmmmm see
04:09 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Alright.
04:09 hmmmm I considered stripping the leading indentation
04:09 hmmmm sorta wonder if I could put an option for that in a config-meta-config
04:10 hmmmm i also had another idea for config directives
04:10 hmmmm @include "somefile.conf"
04:10 hmmmm @multiline_indentation off
04:10 hmmmm or something
04:10 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Just strip the indentation in front of the setting declaration, if any.
04:10 kahrl didn't you say that @include makes updateConfigFile almost impossible to write?
04:10 hmmmm not impossible
04:10 hmmmm just more difficult than it's worth
04:11 hmmmm including other files is pretty useless
04:11 hmmmm if I were REALLY bored I guess i'd put it in but i have so many better things to do
04:12 ShadowNinja It's usefull if you have more than one server, but I can see how it would be much more complex.
04:13 hmmmm you'd need to keep track of which settings originated from where
04:15 kahrl you could probably get away with not overwriting the included files and appending changed settings to the end of the main config file
04:16 ShadowNinja Just changed ones, yes.
04:17 hmmmm i guess that's true
04:17 hmmmm heh that's dirty but it works
04:20 ShadowNinja Another thing to do to Settings:  Make them typed so you don't have to stoi/strtof/is_yes/etc on every get.  I'd convert all settings that weren't obviously numbers or booleans to quoted strings to remove ambiguity (1337/"1337"/true)
04:21 ShadowNinja Possible issue: some people use 1 instead of true/yes/on.
04:22 Zeno` Sounds pretty complicated
04:22 ShadowNinja It would add a fair amount of complexity though.
04:23 hmmmm ShadowNinja, that's way outside the scope of this
04:23 ShadowNinja Zeno`: You said as as I typed ^.
04:23 hmmmm I originally wanted to do that but everybody told me it was worthless
04:23 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Yes, just saying.
04:24 ShadowNinja hmmmm: IMO you should use getGroup instead if getChildren, it sounds better.
04:24 ShadowNinja (If I understood you)
04:25 hmmmm I was debating between getSubtree, getChildren, getBranch, and getGroup
04:26 ShadowNinja subtree -> no, sounds complicated | branch -> not descriptive of what it is | children -> meh, just doesn't sound right to me
04:28 ShadowNinja Also, Settings isn't necessarily a RB tree, it could be a hashmap, or even a vector, that's an implementation detail.
04:29 hmmmm it becomes a tree in concept with this new feature though
04:30 ShadowNinja I see, but it still sounds complicated.  Use simple words where possible.
04:31 ShadowNinja But I'll be off to sleep now.  o/
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06:46 Zeno` Can anybody explain what https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d0be27415eb9386b2367ab798268da6fbe8b7a68 actually does?
06:47 Zeno` It seems to be the source of https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=3&amp;t=10655&amp;p=163167#p163167
06:47 Zeno` s/source/cause
06:51 Zeno` https://gist.github.com/Zeno-/a6b5191d2190d053f219
07:06 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/350
07:10 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/351
07:16 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/352
07:19 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/353
07:19 Calinou they can all be tagged as low-priority enhancement
07:19 Calinou except the tools one, which can probably be enhancement
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08:12 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/354 – 3D signs
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08:38 Krock Hello world.
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09:45 jack_desktop Howdy, I'm currently wondering if there is a wiki or something that goes through the steps of developing what is now Minetest? I assume what I'm asking may not exist though, just thought I would ask, would love to know how Minetest was created from very basics to what it is now.
09:46 jack_desktop I know there is the dev.mintest.net wiki, does that fit the question, currently reading through bits of it now actually.
09:49 sfan5 i don't think we have a wiki entry for that
09:50 jack_desktop Ahh okay, thanks.
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10:29 sapier any final thoughts on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1561 ? I'm gonna merge it in a few hours
10:31 Zeno` sapier, regarding #1885, my latest commit exposes the g_core_settings pointer as const, so I'm not sure how things can get out of sync. This also eliminates have to "sync back" to g_settings when the class is destroyed (i.e. all sets must be done through g_settings())
10:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1885 -- Create CoreSettings class for time-critical sections to use by Zeno-
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10:32 sapier Zeno what happens if someone changes the setting via directly accessing that member
10:32 Zeno` Which member?
10:32 sapier +bool enable_shaders;                                      +bool enable_fog;                                      +bool doubletap_jump;                                      +bool node_highlighting;
10:32 Zeno` they can't
10:32 sapier for example
10:32 sapier why not?
10:32 Zeno` it's const
10:33 Zeno` the whole external reference (pointer) to the core_settings object is now const
10:33 sapier ok so they couldn't without using const_cast
10:34 sapier so only the unmaintainable shadowcopy remains
10:34 Zeno` well, yes, but if people are going to do that... *shrug*
10:34 sapier ppl are doing that
10:34 Zeno` why?
10:35 sapier because they don't see how they're supposed to change the value and will just thing you've ben over-cautious when making it const
10:35 sapier having two central copys of variables feels quite bad and I'm almost 100% sure this will cause errors in future
10:36 Zeno` At the moment there are more that two copies of this critical variables
10:36 sapier any "protection" you add can be easyly removed by someone not knowing the consequences
10:36 Zeno` every class makes their own copy
10:36 Zeno` of course protection can be removed :)
10:36 sapier not here ain't more then one central copy
10:37 Zeno` I can even access private members of a class, but I think if something went wrong it'd be my own fault
10:37 sapier 100 local copys which are controled by that local instance are better then two global stores to be kept in sync
10:37 sapier everyone usually looks for the first way to do something and wont continue to look for another one once this seemed to work
10:38 Zeno` ?
10:38 Zeno` this first way to do something is cast away const?
10:38 sapier It's useless to discuss who's fault it would be as it's allways gonna be someone else who has to fix it ;-)
10:38 Zeno` Anyway, I guess I just can't think of a better way :/
10:39 sapier what's wrong with using the callback mechanism I suggested?
10:39 Zeno` I'm not sure how it's different to what I've implemented
10:39 sapier the difference is the lack of second central store
10:40 Zeno` So every function that want to keep copies of these values would register a callback?
10:40 sapier we're in c++ so it's more every class but that's a semantic detail
10:40 Zeno` err, yes, that's what I meant
10:41 sapier basically yes
10:41 Zeno` well, that's easily done now using my callback class
10:41 Zeno` I guess I could modify it
10:42 sapier As I said your callback mechanism is quite good, the minor change I'd like would be a way to pass a parameter to a callback
10:42 jin_xi hey Zeno, did you read the logs? there was some discussion regarding settings whey you were off
10:42 sapier I'll push the font_engine today there's a more simple callback mechanism for settings. I'd like to replace this by your one in next step
10:42 Zeno` I really don't see much of a difference though ;) An advantage, though, of the current method is the actual place where "perform the callbacks" can be isolated to somewhere it's safe(r)
10:43 Zeno` jin_xi, do I dare read it?
10:43 Zeno` (s/the current method/this patch)
10:44 jin_xi http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-11-29#i_4043326
10:44 Zeno` All the callback does is set a dirty flag... the actual updates are done in a place where syncronisity shouldn't be an issue (as far as I can see)
10:44 Zeno` The font patch looks good
10:44 Zeno` celeron55, has misunderstood
10:45 Zeno` there is no necessity to add code in 10 different places :/
10:45 jin_xi read on
10:45 Zeno` I have no idea where he got that idea (nor kahrl)
10:45 sapier looks like another variant of callbacks to me
10:45 Zeno` templates?
10:46 * Zeno` sighs
10:48 sapier :-) well I don't like templates to much too
10:49 Zeno` I don't think celeron55 actually read the code based on his comments :/
10:49 Zeno` meh
10:49 Zeno` sapier, I haven't tried the font thing for about a month, but I tried it when you first made the PR
10:50 sapier I added Zeframs commit about a week ago so there might be a major difference
10:50 Zeno` When are you merging it?
10:50 sapier my part is only the basics, zefram fixed the formspecs
10:50 sapier in about 5-6 hours
10:51 Zeno` I'll test before then
10:51 sapier thanks
10:51 Zeno` If I don't find anything it will be because I found no issues and/or fell asleep :)
10:51 Zeno` If I don't say anything it will be*
10:52 sapier well there will be changes, quite reasonable as now font scaling is added :-)
10:56 nore ./minetest --address digitalaudioconcepts.com --port 30001 --name nore --password <password> --go --config minetest.conf <-- if "video_driver = null" in minetest.conf, then I get floating point exception right after connecting
10:57 sfan5 nore: fixed in freeminer
10:57 sfan5 </troll>
10:57 nore lol
10:57 sfan5 nore: suggestion: gdb it, fix it and pull request
11:00 nore SIGFPE in CNodeDefManager::fillTileAttribs
11:07 Zeno` sapier, where is doCallbacks() called?
11:17 Zeno` I'm not sure if people are going to add settings if they have to register a callback for every setting they're interested in :p
11:18 Zeno` sapier, are the valgrind leaks false positives? (in #1561)
11:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1561 -- Implement proper font handling by sapier
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11:50 sapier Zeno`: for what I remember doCallbacks is called on setting a setting
11:51 sapier valgrind leaks? I'll check
12:02 sapier Nope no false positives. font is grabed once to often so it's not deleted on shutdown, fixed
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12:03 sapier It'd be a shutdown leak only but better to have no leak at all
12:03 Zeno` That's the only issue I experienced. The only other (very minor) one was that on the pause screen my path was chopped off at the bottom
12:04 sapier is this a new issue? I remember this beeing told multiple times by now? maybe we need to implement some sort of size check for it
12:06 Zeno` I don't know if it's new... I just happened to notice it
12:07 Zeno` I can't check if it's a current issue or not because I'm fixing merge conflicts in another one of my branches :(
12:08 sapier no problem if it's new I'm gonna address it later guess that's nothing mission critical
12:10 Zeno` yep, very minor as I said (just cosmetic)
12:16 PenguinDad the path being cut off isn't a new issue for me
12:18 Zeno` It's new for me (just tested), but *shrug*
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12:26 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/327
12:26 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/338
12:26 kilbith nore, sfan5 ^
12:27 kilbith then we'll done with the textures for 0.4.11
12:30 sapier What about a feature freeze as of about 10th december to be able to do a release for christmas?
12:31 nore seems good
12:32 sapier but means that everyone who wants things in for this release has to get it polished till next weekend
12:32 nore together with the addition of snow biomes & other snow related things to minetest_game
12:32 nore yep
12:34 sapier I'm gonna check the android pulls and issues, hopefully most of them can be merged. My first check was quite positive but without real test I can't be sure
12:34 sapier And I don't know how much was broken through other commits since last android build ;-)
12:35 sapier -through + due to
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12:45 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1603
12:45 rubenwardy "Use frame instead of words 'no screenshot available"
12:45 rubenwardy The build doesn't fail, Travis is lying
12:45 rubenwardy (I only changed an image)
12:46 PenguinDad rubenwardy: the build failing isn't caused by your change
12:46 rubenwardy Yeah. It is something to do with wrong version of irrlicht (no matching call to irr:: blah blah)
12:47 PenguinDad you just forked at a point where the build was failing
12:48 sapier rubenwardy: just rebase to latest version
12:53 rubenwardy Done
12:53 sapier thanks
13:03 rubenwardy Travis passed
13:14 Zeno` sapier, what if I close my PR and just work on the callback class
13:14 Zeno` would that be more digestible?
13:14 Zeno` and celeron55*
13:14 sapier good Idea, if you want to merge it I suggest waiting till font_engine is merged as you can replace that callback mechanism by yours too
13:15 sapier -merge +split
13:16 Zeno` Yeah, I think that's the way to go because it doesn't cause arguments and it can be used with whatever method is finally agreed upong
13:16 sapier yes
13:18 Zeno` If you want to cherry pick those two files (callback.cpp|.h) before I get around to it, feel free :p It's almost midnight here
13:19 Zeno` Also, the data type passed... std::string is good I think (to pass the setting name) but should there be user data as well?
13:19 Zeno` Actually it doesn't matter
13:19 Zeno` std::string is fine
13:20 sapier well we'll have to think about how to pass parameters in a generic mechanism. that's an open issue true
13:20 Zeno` yes
13:20 sapier I'd prefere to avoid passing a void* pointer ;-)
13:20 Zeno` same
13:21 celeron55 one way to do that kind of thing is to make an abstract base class for callback parameters and dynamically casting it when receiving it
13:22 celeron55 then it's a matter of preference whether to add template functions for getting and passing it directly as the final type or leaving that to the caller and callback
13:22 celeron55 the class can be completely empty, C++ will store the type of it
13:22 Zeno` quite possibly. But depending on what happens the name of the setting might be enough. They (the settings) don't change that much after startup, though. But that's an idea worth exploring
13:23 Zeno` I'm not sure about templates (only because I find them ugly... I am biased)
13:23 celeron55 for a simple purpose like that they don't look bad
13:24 Zeno` quite possibly yeah
13:24 celeron55 but they will cause weird errors when used wrong in any complexity
13:26 sapier well the first version (font_engine) one has built in callbacks. I think we should design the generic mechanism in a way it's most likely gonna handle all situations where we may need callbacks in future. Let's better take some time then rush into something we have to fix soon again
13:27 Zeno` I think callbacks are the way to go. I know there is that thing called, umm, main_game_callback or something, but it's not very useful atm (it might be client only as well)
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13:28 sapier and of course once we have a solution we should replace ALL callback style things in mt by this one ;-)
13:29 Zeno` yeah
13:37 Zeno` #1889 ... feel free to modify/adapt/whatever. I need to rest (spent half the afternoon bisecting stuff heh)
13:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1889 -- Proposed callback manager. by Zeno-
13:37 sapier good night zeno
13:37 Zeno` I'll hang around, but night ;)
13:37 Zeno` night celeron55
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16:18 sol_invictus I get a lot of messages like: Got packet command: 60 for peer id 642 but client isn't active yet. Dropping packet
16:18 sol_invictus What could be the reason?
16:19 sapier most likely some old client connects
16:19 sapier maybe a andoid fork
16:20 sapier there's been a lot of issues with client joining about a year ago sadly we couldn't fix them backwards for those old clients
16:21 sfan5 nore: did you already agree to #327?
16:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/327 -- Localplayer check position by MirceaKitsune
16:22 sapier how often do you see those messages and on which loglevel sol_invictus, maybe we need to lower the level where that messages are shown
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16:23 sol_invictus I see this in server console with --quiet
16:24 sol_invictus it's ERROR[ServerThread]
16:24 sapier did anyone check how much cpu load 327 gnerates?
16:24 sfan5 sapier: talking about minetest_game
16:24 sapier sol_invictus: hmmm guess we really should lower the loglevel for that entry
16:24 sapier ahhhh wrong link again :-)
16:25 sapier I wonder if we have that code in ...
16:25 sapier well I don't wonder enough to check it
16:28 nore sfan5, yes
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16:32 sfan5 nore: I'l merge it then
16:32 nore ok
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16:37 CraigyDavi Anything stopping https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/345 from getting merged?
16:38 sfan5 nore: ^
16:39 nore no, nothing preventing merg
16:39 nore e
16:39 nore sfan5, your thoughts?
16:39 Zeno` well, I don't see why de-indenting the block mentioned can't be done now
16:39 Zeno` why make it a separate PR?
16:40 sfan5 nore: the PR looks good, but Zeno` is right
16:40 sfan5 CraigyDavi: can you do what Zeno` suggested?
16:40 CraigyDavi Ok I'll de-indent it
16:40 Zeno` I'm ok with it apart from that
16:40 nore sfan5, btw: your thoughts on the pine-* pull?
16:41 sfan5 nore: link?
16:41 nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336
16:41 sfan5 nore: pine PR is ok
16:42 nore ok, and should we do it all at once, or add tree models & mapgen at the same time?
16:44 sfan5 nore: tree models & mapgen later
16:44 sfan5 nore: can i merge 336? (pine-pr)
16:44 nore yep, merge it
16:45 Zeno` yeah
16:45 Zeno` nore, but I thought you wanted it for a Christmas release :P~
16:46 CraigyDavi #336 doesn't have any sapling growth code though?
16:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/336 -- Settings checkboxes not saved if you quit without first leaving the Settings tab
16:46 nore no, not yet
16:46 sfan5 Zeno`: later doesn't imply after christmas
16:46 sfan5 CraigyDavi: correct
16:46 nore but it's easy to import the code from mg
16:47 CraigyDavi Updated minetest_game/pull/345 with de-indentation
16:47 Zeno` sfan5, my bad. I thought he said he wanted it as part of the Christmas release. I sometimes imagine things (and I was joking anyway) :)
16:47 nore sfan5, btw: what about adding code to get snow biomes in mgv6? (so that would be lua mapgen)
16:47 sfan5 nore: can i merge the new 345?
16:48 nore sure
16:49 sfan5 ok
16:50 sfan5 CraigyDavi: error: mods/bucket/init.lua: patch does not apply
16:50 CraigyDavi Oh that's due to https://github.com/minetest/​minetest_game/commit/e707ba3
16:50 nore kaeza fixed a few globals too IIRC
16:51 CraigyDavi Well it was in my PR before kaeza...
16:51 sfan5 CraigyDavi: can you rebase it?
16:51 CraigyDavi Yeah I'll remove the bucket part
16:52 sapier I'm preparing https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1561 for merge now so last chance to mention issues prior merge
16:56 sfan5 sapier: why XML?
16:56 sapier ask irrlicht guys that's the way they do fonts
16:57 sapier our old font was legacy only
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17:00 sfan5 sapier: 1) see github comments 2) who agreed to that pull?
17:01 sapier all the comments have been handled
17:01 sapier unless there's been a new one within the last 10 min ;-)
17:02 sfan5 i made some new ones
17:02 CraigyDavi sfan5, rebased
17:03 sapier its desktop only because android for example provides valid dpi information automaticaly
17:03 sapier would you agree to replace "PC/MAC" to "Desktop"
17:03 Zeno` irrlicht probably uses XML because of fontconfig
17:04 sfan5 Zeno`: no
17:04 Zeno` no?
17:04 sfan5 the irrlicht xml files contain which chat is where in the png
17:05 sapier I don't know why irrlicht uses those fonts, and to be honest I don't care because I can't change it
17:05 sfan5 that has nothing to do with fontconfig
17:05 sapier sfan5 is "Desktop" ok?
17:05 sfan5 yes
17:08 sapier sfan5 only those 3 comments or don't I see the other ones yet?
17:09 sfan5 sapier: no, thats the only one
17:10 sapier ok in this case I'm gonna merge it. hopefully our formspec scaling issues are gone after this
17:10 nore joined #minetest-dev
17:11 kahrl ugh
17:11 kahrl I started downloading the patch when you said you're going to merge it to try it and it's not even downloaded yet
17:11 kahrl that's how bloated those XML files are
17:12 kahrl why not just drop non-freetype support?
17:13 kahrl for comparison, the current minetest working tree is about 44K, while 1561.patch is 5.08M
17:14 kahrl ok, download is finished now
17:15 kahrl still, requiring everyone who wants to git clone minetest to download this stuff (which they even probably won't use, as they'll enable freetype) is bad
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17:16 kahrl especially since the download rate at github.com is so low
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17:18 kahrl 17.5KB/s according to wget
17:18 Calinou <+kahrl> why not just drop non-freetype support?
17:19 Calinou I agree, it is worth it
17:19 Calinou (we could do the same for gettext.)
17:19 Calinou LANG=C forces english.
17:21 kahrl well supporting USE_GETTEXT=0 is quite trivial
17:21 Calinou gettext should be enabled by default
17:21 Calinou I don't like having to use cmake . -DENABLE_GETTEXT=1 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=1 -DENABLE_REDIS=1
17:21 kahrl just do #define gettext(String) String  (as is done in gettext.h)
17:22 Calinou (LevelDB and Redis should be used if found on system, that's all)
17:22 Calinou (and could be explicitly disabled if found)
17:22 PenguinDad Calinou: Redis is enabled if it's found
17:22 Calinou but why not LevelDB?
17:24 kahrl how often do you actually run cmake? I never have to do it
17:24 Calinou a few times a month since I make builds I publish
17:24 Calinou (and I strip them of useless files by hand…)
17:25 kahrl sounds like a job for a script
17:27 Zeno` I run cmake maybe 12 times a week :3
17:28 PenguinDad I run cmake 4 times a week :D
17:29 kahrl I feel bad for neglecting my cmake now ;)
17:29 sfan5 Calinou: xyz wanted me to enable redis by default
17:31 Calinou both should be enabled if found
17:31 Calinou trying out my script… (I'll publish it when done)
17:32 kahrl is it as simple as changing OPTION(ENABLE_LEVELDB "Enable LevelDB backend") to OPTION(... 1)?
17:32 sfan5 kahrl: i think it is
17:32 kahrl if so then I support it
17:34 Zeno` Sort of related, why are debug builds built using -O1?
17:35 kahrl they would be way too slow otherwise
17:35 kahrl unplayable for most
17:35 PenguinDad Zeno`: because -Og is pretty new?
17:35 Zeno` PenguinDad, what about -O0
17:36 Zeno` kahrl, with no optimisation (compared to -O1) I find very little difference
17:36 Calinou what is your hardware?
17:37 Zeno` Calinou, not really relevant because there is very little difference
17:38 Zeno` But if you must know, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
17:39 Zeno` I run debug builds with no optimisation on my laptop as well without -O1, though
17:40 Zeno` If there is a huge difference between -O0 and -O1 there is a big problem (IMO)
17:42 sapier kahrl you know that everyone not wanting to use freetype has to download those fonts too ;-) well true ttf files are only 5 mb compared to 10mb for the other ones. but I'm quite sure the xml files are heavyly compressed for transmission
17:42 sapier if you really wanna debug you have to set it to -O0 anyway, -O1 is quite useless for gdb debugging
17:45 sapier kahrl yes we could drop non freetype support. I'd not do this for two reasons: 1) Freetype code isn't anything different except it creates those "files" otf ... and second the code doing this is a nightmare, it's buggy as hell misses all checks and we don't have anyone who understands it
17:46 sapier if irrlicht would have native freetype support I'll be first to agree dropping non freetype support
17:46 kahrl what are those bugs?
17:47 sapier try setting your font file to something invalid ;)
17:48 kahrl it falls back to the builtin irrlicht font
17:48 sapier If I remember correct zefram mentioned some font parameters aren't exactly correct too, He did do special handling for this for his formspec fixes
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17:48 sapier something invalid not something not existing ;-)
17:49 kahrl same thing
17:50 kahrl "works for me" (tm)
17:50 sapier well I don't know what you're doing different but I got various out of bounds memory accesses because the code did interpret a png file as ttf
17:52 sapier And as I don't have any knowledge about fonts so I can't fix it
17:55 kahrl maybe older versions of freetype didn't reject invalid files?
17:55 kahrl dunno
17:55 sapier is there any additional concern left except the size issues? I don't say they don't exist but that's the price to pay if we wanna have full scaling support
17:55 Calinou font size could be slightly larger by default
17:55 sapier it's crashing outside of freetype withing our own code
17:55 Calinou also make shadow alpha 255 instead of 128
17:56 Calinou makes font easier to read
17:57 sapier I don't have any preferences about the alpha does anyone agree to changing this?
17:58 sapier current size and alpha was checked by various ppl so I'd only change it if there's more then one person saying same
17:59 Calinou do these people play the game on a regular basis?
17:59 sapier I think so
18:04 sapier But as I said I don't really have a preference
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18:26 sapier ok I'm pushing it now, we can change those parameters later if there's a majority for it
18:28 Calinou thanks
18:29 sapier thanks? I didn't change them by now
18:30 sapier but if you want to change them I wont stop you from doing it ;-)
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18:44 kilbith sfan5: I still need your vote for the new header : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/341
18:44 kilbith thanks again
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18:54 shadowzone kilbith: I like the last one
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19:01 Megaf sapier: take a look https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1890
19:01 Megaf #1890
19:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1890 -- Copying text from gnome terminal to minetest causes both to crash.
19:02 Megaf Professional look you say. kahrl
19:02 Megaf :)
19:07 sapier is this new or as of font scaling?
19:07 kahrl I think it's a duplicate of #373
19:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/373 -- Copy-paste doesnt work on GNU/Linux, from another program to Minetest
19:08 kahrl it's mentioned in the comments there
19:13 sapier hmm on kde there ain't a crash nor does copy n paste work
19:14 PenguinDad Megaf: I already noticed this ~6 months ago but thought it's not worth reporting :/
19:14 Calinou whoa, why were so many files added to repository?
19:14 Calinou quite heavy ones
19:14 sapier fonts
19:15 Calinou that sucks
19:15 Calinou bitmap fonts should be buried
19:15 sapier well once irrlicht supports freetype we can do this
19:15 Calinou we have Freetype support?
19:16 sapier but irrlicht doesn't have
19:16 sapier and our freetype support is quite ugly and buggy code
19:16 Calinou works well enough
19:16 Calinou handles some Latin characters, better than nothing
19:16 sapier unless you try your own fonts
19:16 Calinou also we could have coloured chat :(
19:16 Calinou I've tried the Droid Sans fonts without issues
19:16 sapier once you do that youd recognize how broken our code is
19:17 Calinou I can't type stuff like é in chat, only in console
19:17 sapier I've read multiple times irrlicht guys want to support freetype maybe there's light at the end of the tunnel
19:17 Calinou yes, but when will we ship it? it takes years until all distributions package it
19:18 sapier true
19:18 sapier so we don't really have options
19:21 kahrl Calinou: I complained about the huge files (see log) but I was the only one, so I figured no one else cared
19:21 sapier well none of you seems to have mentioned that the biggest file (with huge difference) is a truetype font
19:22 Calinou it looks cleaner when you don't ship a lot of random files
19:22 Calinou but anyway the damage is done, you commited the files, they are in history :P
19:23 sapier still I can't merge truetypes font generator ;-)
19:23 sapier -truetype + irrlicht
19:26 sapier btw according to git size of all those files is 3.8m compressed, less then that single ttf fonts size
19:26 Megaf we should really migrate to other engine
19:26 Megaf irrlight is our biggest limitation...
19:26 Calinou no, just no
19:26 Calinou we can sure do a lot of things using it
19:26 Megaf no copy and paste, no proper fonts, lots of bugs
19:26 Megaf slow development
19:27 Megaf and so on
19:27 sapier no too ... any other engine will just have other limitations ... limitations we don't know yet
19:27 Calinou it would take too much time to change engine
19:27 Megaf and it's not that lightweight and simple
19:27 kahrl sapier: couldn't you have compressed that ttf file then?
19:27 kahrl I mean removed unused glyphs
19:27 Megaf Calinou: more time than fixing all bugs and implementing all resources?
19:27 sapier how to know which ones are unused? we do have i18n support?
19:28 kahrl do we really need the whole kanji set?
19:28 Calinou yes, way more
19:28 Calinou the game seems to support Latin and Russian
19:28 Calinou but remember about Japanese users…
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19:31 kahrl even buildat, at its early stage of development, already had to make changes to its engine (urho3d) to work properly
19:31 Calinou Megaf, as for copy-paste, there are other doable chat improvements, like history in chat window, chat colours, …
19:32 Calinou shortcuts (Ctrl + U erases whole line to the left, Ctrl + K erases whole line to the right)
19:32 kahrl use f10 and those shortcuts work :)
19:35 sapier btw colored chat could be implemented if someone would care ;-)
19:37 nore sapier, I thought it was backported...
19:38 kilbith there's coloured chat in FM
19:38 sapier did someone check the license yet nore?
19:39 nore no, but it was said to have been backported from before the license change
19:39 nore I did not check that though
19:39 sapier well we have to be sure unless we wanna remove it again ;-)
19:39 sapier backporting is from fm is usually a bad idea better just look at what something does and implement yourself
19:41 nore https://github.com/freeminer/free​miner/commits/master/src/chat.cpp <-- chat colors were implemented before license change
19:41 sapier nice :-)
19:42 nore and not modified since then
19:42 nore (at least, chat.cpp did not have a change that affected colors it seems)
19:42 kahrl while talking about fm: does anyone agree that we should replace the server flags in the multiplayer tab by icons before the next release?
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19:43 hmmmm I agree
19:43 sapier me too
19:43 nore me too
19:44 kahrl ok great, I'll work on it then
19:44 nore btw, about fm: their "COPYING" file says GPL but the "LICENSE" file says LGPL
19:44 sapier as there are so many dev online right now what do you think about feature freeze as of about 10th december to get a release till christmas?
19:44 kahrl sapier: sounds good to me
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19:46 nore already told it looked good, that leaves about 1 week to complete a few features for mt_game too
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19:56 nore sfan5, about what to do in minetest_game before the 0.4.11 release: make pine trees generate and grow, add snow biomes, maybe pine/jungle sticks?
19:56 nore any other thing I might have missed?
19:56 sfan5 i don't think you missed anything
19:58 nore should we add an issue somewhere for the TODO, or in the wiki?
20:00 kahrl I think something in #1561 is droppped too early
20:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1561 -- Implement proper font handling by sapier
20:00 kahrl if I switch tabs, I get a segfault on shutdown
20:00 kahrl s/droppped/dropped
20:00 sapier are you sure? it's been dropped to late before :-(
20:01 kahrl I saw that in the log
20:01 sapier hmm maybe order of deletion is wrong
20:01 kahrl gdb backtrace is not very helpful (it crashes in ~CGUIEnvironment())
20:03 sapier can you try moving the fontenginne deletion behind device dropping in main.cpp l1572?
20:03 kahrl will try
20:05 kahrl http://sprunge.us/QFdI
20:07 sapier oh the other way round someone drops the font fontenginge is supposed to handle .. great
20:07 kahrl oh, forgot to mention this is a build without freetype
20:08 sapier was this backtrace prior or after modification?
20:08 kahrl after
20:08 kahrl I think when you do m_env->getFont() in initSimpleFont you have to grab() the font
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20:10 sapier great ... I just removed that assuming it to be same memory leak as for freetype mode :-(
20:10 kahrl the irrlicht convention is: if a function name starts with create, you have to drop() the resulting object yourself, otherwise you must not
20:11 kahrl so drop the result of createTTFont but not the result of getFont
20:11 sapier hmm my fault, I always mix it up
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20:17 sol_invictus what happened to freetype support, sapier?
20:18 jin_xi sol_invictus: use -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1
20:19 sol_invictus it's always on in my builds
20:19 sol_invictus I can't use custom fonts anymore with HEAD
20:19 Krock <3 costom fons
20:20 Krock -o+u+t
20:21 sol_invictus this was taken with droid sans set in config https://i.imgur.com/oBIECfL.png
20:21 sapier freetype should still be on
20:22 sapier there's no change in default settings just non freetype mode looks way better then before
20:24 sol_invictus then why doesn't it work anymore?
20:24 sapier can you give me your settings?
20:24 sol_invictus I reverted your commits and now it's fine https://i.imgur.com/oBIECfL.png
20:25 sapier still can you give me your settings ;-)
20:25 sol_invictus http://sprunge.us/gYVA
20:26 sapier do you have a DroidSans.ttf file there?
20:26 sol_invictus of course!
20:27 sapier can you post debug log of startup somewhere?
20:27 sol_invictus no, won't do this now
20:28 sapier btw both of your screenshots are same file
20:29 sol_invictus https://i.imgur.com/cD0MGfX.png *
20:30 sapier doesn't look to me like not working at all but just some slightly different font size
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20:33 sol_invictus slightly different?!
20:33 sol_invictus what are smoking? it's tiny!
20:34 sapier well as mentioned before our freetype code doesn't really provide correct font sizes so zephram had to use some reference which most likely was 800x600
20:34 sapier you can verify my assumption about the size by setting it to a bigger value
20:34 celeron55 you should aim to preserve font size settings in a maximized full hd window though
20:34 celeron55 that's what people use anyway
20:35 sapier then next one will complain about not beeing identical in 800x600
20:35 celeron55 but who uses 800x600 for actual gameplay?
20:35 celeron55 sounds insane
20:36 sapier well we can tune the default size
20:36 celeron55 this isn't a large issue at all but this just seems like the wrong assumption anyway
20:36 sapier right now for the first time freetype and non freetype sizes are equal (within certain range)
20:36 celeron55 feel free to do nothing, i guess people can just adjust their settings
20:37 sapier don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with adjusting the default size, as long as I don't have to change it every day due to someone complaining ;)
20:38 sapier prior someone mentions this as bug, the strange gui scaling due to y size of window was removed too
20:39 sapier celeron don't make me lookup the chat log where you did agree to this ;-)
20:40 celeron55 also, to make myself clear, i don't want default font sizes to be preserved; they have been too small for years
20:40 celeron55 (i was only referring to settings that users may have set by themselves)
20:41 sapier I agree that this is suboptimal but we'd get only one thing correct either freetype or non freetype as both haven't been consistent by now
20:42 sapier by definition you can't make two things consistent which haven't been without making one different from befor
20:47 sapier well I'm gonna wait for a little bit more feedback prior fixing the issues with those font changes. I'm quite sure there will be more
20:49 hmmmm alright done
20:51 hmmmm agh god damn
20:51 jin_xi lol
20:53 hmmmm merge conflict with the proper font handling patch
20:54 sapier :-) not very surprising
21:00 hmmmm usually it's not too bad but this needs a lot of manual intervention
21:05 hmmmm sapier... question
21:05 sapier yes?
21:05 hmmmm where are the settings.cpp modifications actually used
21:05 hmmmm I mean where is doCallback called
21:06 sapier I'll have a look, hope it's not been lost due to merge error
21:07 sapier oops
21:08 hmmmm don't fix it yet!
21:08 hmmmm woah those are big fonts
21:08 hmmmm heh it compiles and passes the unit tests
21:08 hmmmm ok good enough for me
21:09 sapier it's supposed to be called in the set functions, obviously it ain't
21:09 hmmmm ironically this callback mechanism was what zeno- was going to do
21:10 hmmmm hrmmm it's taking a long time to push to github for some reason
21:10 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/bc4fbc8567d9a35d463484e128a9b3fa40cf5132
21:10 hmmmm goot i just realized i forgot something
21:10 sapier well that mechanism was implemented quite some time before. And that part of zenos fix wasn't denied what was questioned was the shadowcopy of settings
21:11 hmmmm btw
21:12 hmmmm from now on, people should turn on their code editor's remove-trailing-whitespace feature no matter how messy it makes diffs
21:12 hmmmm I'm really getting tired of the trailing whitespace stuff
21:12 sapier I'm with you ... even I'll make sure it's on again ;-)
21:13 sapier tell me when I can fix the docallbacks bug
21:13 hmmmm well
21:13 hmmmm any concerns about my patch?
21:14 sapier what's it supposed to do?
21:14 hmmmm add settings groups and multiline settings entries
21:14 hmmmm see the test.cpp diff for a sypnopsis
21:16 sapier I'm not sure about the groups do we really need it? isn't it just a optical change?
21:16 hmmmm it's part of a bigger change
21:16 hmmmm i.e. noise parameters
21:16 hmmmm and map_meta.txt
21:17 sapier well I guess you wouldn't add it if you didn't need it so if it works merge it
21:17 hmmmm this way, map_meta.txt contents == g_settings->getGroup("mapgen");
21:18 hmmmm and also now i'll be able to add noise params as i'd like
21:18 sapier hmm I wonder how groups do fit the callback mechanism
21:18 hmmmm okay, fetch from upstream, rebase, and then fix the set doCallbacks thing
21:19 hmmmm have them callback as well, why not
21:19 sapier how to call the callback for a parameter within a group ... or can't those be changed on their own?
21:20 sapier e.g. group1->param1 vs group2->param1
21:20 hmmmm oh..
21:20 hmmmm your callback should pass the Settings object it was called frmo
21:20 hmmmm do you *assume* your callback was from g_settings?  that's not a good idea
21:21 sapier well by that time there wasn't any other settings object ;-)
21:21 hmmmm sure there was
21:21 sapier Zenos callback mechanism would solve that issue
21:21 hmmmm just not global
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21:21 sapier there was? where?
21:26 hmmmm well all the *_meta.txt files for one
21:26 hmmmm mapgenparams is a Settings
21:26 hmmmm i'm sure there are more
21:27 hmmmm now we have structured settings!
21:27 sapier well I don't see a immediate problem as a callback is registred to that specific settings instance.
21:28 sapier yet I see that right now you can't use same callback to handle different settings instances
21:28 hmmmm wonder if it would've been a better idea to move to an XML-based config file
21:49 sapier wow .... months ago mentioning xml would've caused an immediate flamewar
21:50 jin_xi resignation
21:50 hmmmm i'm being sarcastic :)
21:51 sapier hmm could someone write a world -> stl converter? I'd like to try printing a world :-)
21:51 sapier hmm a small one :-)
21:52 celeron55 just look in the forums, there have been topics about that
21:52 sapier really? :)
21:52 celeron55 probably better use google because forum search sucks
21:53 sapier wow there's really a mod to do this :-)
21:53 hmmmm why would anybody want to waste real-life resources on perlin puke
21:54 sapier well I'd guess "just for fun" ;-)
21:54 celeron55 looks like these guys did it succesfully https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=9949
21:54 celeron55 or... this guy
21:54 celeron55 it's only one talking there 8)
21:54 shadowzone http://picpaste.com/pics/Scree​nshot-rCli6W1i.1417384474.png  <-- is it suppose to look like this?
21:55 sapier but I'm missing a photo of a actual print
21:55 * shadowzone waves at celeron55
21:55 sapier I think so yes
21:55 sapier I'd prefer it a little bit smaller but that's my personal taste
21:56 kahrl that's what she said
21:56 * kahrl hides
21:57 sapier I wonder how long the size finetuning will take this time ;)
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22:20 kahrl sapier: shall I push the segfault fix?
22:20 sapier the non grabbed font?
22:20 sapier yes
22:20 kahrl ok
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23:49 paramat nore > "sfan5, about what to do in minetest_game before the 0.4.11 release: make pine trees generate and grow ...", yes pine sapling growing code and the pine schematic will be done for 0.4.11, thanks for merging the pine nodes

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