Time Nick Message 00:31 Sokomine paramat: that you-cant-build-where-you-stand could be solved with a single line i think...just add an option so that that particular check always returns true for people who want to build 01:25 Sokomine yes, a single config option would solve my problem (and that of other builders). can't that be added? it sounds...exaggerated...to start a pull request for a single line... 01:46 pitriss Sokomine: i support your idea. 02:01 Ritchie Sokomine: i support your idea too 02:01 n4x nice one fn 03:09 Zeno` Megaf, do you still have a local copy of my repo? If so can you git pull and git checkout fix_ambient_occlusion and test again please? 03:12 Zeno` Anyone else who wants to test: https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commit/fed354992ee5b16a2a4d6c8f66d07dccefe75853 03:15 VanessaE Zeno`: can't put my finger on it, but that seems a little different from before 03:15 VanessaE (just tested) 03:15 Zeno` great 03:15 Zeno` :) 03:15 VanessaE emphasis on "little" 03:15 VanessaE might be imagining it? 03:16 Zeno` Possibly 03:16 Zeno` It's different to my fix at 3:30AM though 03:16 Zeno` This way is correct and the same as before 03:16 Zeno` well, it's the same as before 03:17 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011212014%20-%2010%3a18%3a18%20PM.png 03:17 Zeno` Looks right to me 03:18 VanessaE note that the shading on the tops of the left/right parts of the _--_ structure on the right still reacts to placing a block under it 03:18 VanessaE but I guess you weren't addressing that 03:18 Zeno` No, I just wanted to get it back to how it was day before yesterday 03:19 Zeno` Before tackling what is (I think?) a different issue 03:19 VanessaE *nod* 03:19 VanessaE just making sure we're talking about different issues. 03:19 VanessaE so yeah, I guess if that screenshot is right, then you're good. 03:19 VanessaE especially since you and I seem to be blind ;) 03:20 Zeno` yep. So "on the tops of the left/right parts of the _--_ structure on the right still reacts to placing a block under it" is there before my previous commit? 03:20 VanessaE yeah 03:21 VanessaE that's an old issue. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't any mixup between that and other shading glitches, since it's related 03:21 VanessaE now for the inevitable Megaf test ;) 03:21 Zeno` cool 03:24 Fritigern OMG It broke ALL of my worlds, impregnated my (male!) hamster and curdled my coffee!!! 03:25 VanessaE Fritigern: you forgot about making kittens cry and creating black holes. 03:25 Fritigern Oh yeah, that too! 03:25 Fritigern sucked in my computer, so now i am using this crappy quantum computer. It's here, but it isn;t 03:36 Zeno` What does being assigned to an issue mean? 03:36 Zeno` ShadowNinja, assigned me 03:36 n4x that you are meant to fix it, so go work on it, slave developer! ;P 03:36 Zeno` Aww, dat's not fair! 03:38 ShadowNinja Zeno`: It means you're working on it or will be working on it. I set it because you said as much in a comment. 03:38 Zeno` Thanks 04:37 Jericho Can someone help me set up a local server for me and my little brother? Both laptops run ubuntu, if that means anything 07:35 RealBadAngel Jericho, better ask in #minetest 08:02 Jericho Ok, thank you 08:51 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1865 → tag as enhancement (good for modding) 08:51 Calinou hi Zeno` :) 08:52 Zeno` hi Calinou 08:53 Calinou I would like a “proposal” label for the issue tracker; basically enhancements or feature requests that are “explained” in the issue 08:53 Calinou thus, already a part of the work is done (more or less) 08:59 Zeno` I proposal different than feature request? 08:59 Zeno` Is* 09:06 Calinou proposal = what should be done is accurately explained 09:07 Calinou feature request = “Add curvable blocks please”, proposal = “Add curvable blocks, such as, … here are models, … here are proposed recipes” 09:07 Calinou so the proposal is potentially easier to implement 09:07 Zeno` Yes. There is no proposal label, so I guess someone will have to add it 10:10 Zeno` RealBadAngel, can you check #1864 please? 10:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1864 -- Fix smooth lighting regression by Zeno- 11:48 Zeno` can anyone look at #1864? 11:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1864 -- Fix smooth lighting regression by Zeno- 11:49 Zeno` also... hmm I can't connect to github 11:49 sfan5 if it fixes the issue you have my approval 11:49 Zeno` ah there it is. Also: 1864 11:50 Zeno` it fixes the issue :) 11:50 Zeno` Been playing all day because it made me paranoid 11:50 Zeno` I can't check #1863 directly although it looks right 11:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1863 -- Fix compiling if no endian.h found by neoascetic 11:50 Zeno` Krock? 11:51 Krock Zeno`, testing 11:53 Krock Zeno`, client.cpp compiled fine 11:53 Krock seems to work 11:54 Zeno` thanks 11:54 Zeno` sfan5, any comments on #1863? 11:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1863 -- Fix compiling if no endian.h found by neoascetic 11:54 sfan5 again: if it fixes the issue you have my approval 11:54 Zeno` Ok, I'll merge them both because they both fix bugs/regressions 11:56 Zeno` Why is my internet so slow :/ 11:59 Zeno` thanks 14:02 Zeno` #1644 14:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1644 -- Refactor main by Zeno- 14:03 Zeno` yay, nay, undecided? 14:03 kilbith amen 14:03 PenguinDad *takes a deep breath* Yay ;) 14:04 RealBadAngel just push a button 14:06 RealBadAngel Zeno`, just for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgeL5C1DmUw 14:06 Zeno` nah, I'll do git apply --check at least :D 14:07 Zeno` I love van halen 14:08 RealBadAngel everybody... Fire in the Hole! 14:08 Zeno` ok, so RBA agrees (?), Kahrl has looked at it many times. I think that the only way the PR can progress is if it's merged. 14:08 Zeno` brb, finding some Bourbon 14:10 Zeno` $ git apply --check 1644.patch 14:10 Zeno` [crobbins@localhost minetest]$ 14:10 Zeno` :-o 14:10 Zeno` I still need that Bourbon or 2... bb very soon 14:14 Zeno` Ok, this PR is too old and too much tested 14:14 Zeno` I'll wait for RBA to come back but I'll merge it then 14:19 Krock It would be cool if nodeboxes could be somehthing like glasslike_connected /Offtopic 14:22 Krock Zeno`, does it increase the gameplay speed somehow? 14:23 Zeno` Krock, nope 14:23 RealBadAngel but it allows the speedup changes easier 14:23 Zeno` it makes it easier to maintain and add new features 14:23 Zeno` yes, later 14:24 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw 14:24 RealBadAngel :) 14:27 Krock somehow it reminds me to this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SezoGW_z9w0 14:27 Zeno` hah 14:28 Krock wrong link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkwgMMNXjTc 14:28 Zeno` Will things ever be the same again? It's the Final Countdown 14:28 Zeno` PSB are great 14:30 Zeno` 10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2... 14:30 Krock 1 0 14:31 Zeno` fuse was faulty 14:32 RealBadAngel fire in the hole! 14:32 * RealBadAngel hides 14:32 Zeno` fire in the hole! 14:33 PenguinDad I prefer this Fire in the Hole ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irOuRCkO0nQ 14:34 Zeno` err, I guess 14:34 Zeno` lol 14:36 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Cn-1hmOZQ 14:36 Zeno` oh gawd 14:36 RealBadAngel "gimme sip of vodka" ;) 14:36 shadowzone Oh great 14:37 RealBadAngel polish parody :) 14:37 * Zeno` hands the bottle to RBA 14:37 Zeno` sip away! 14:37 RealBadAngel bottoms up! 15:03 sfan5 who broke the build? 15:03 sfan5 Zeno` 15:03 Zeno` The build is broken? 15:03 sfan5 game_params.requested_world_path); 15:03 sfan5 ^ 15:03 sfan5 owait 15:04 sfan5 Zeno`: http://sprunge.us/gjGD 15:06 Zeno` change line 1517 to game_params.world_path 15:07 sfan5 that works 15:07 sfan5 now push that fix to master 15:07 Zeno` ok, I'll push a fix now 15:07 Zeno` thank you 15:09 sfan5 anyway 15:10 sfan5 who enabled bi-/tri-linear filtering for hotbar items 15:10 Zeno` not me 15:12 PenguinDad sfan5: do you have intel graphics? 15:14 Zeno` sfan5, fixed in master/HEAD 15:15 sfan5 PenguinDad: yes and no 15:16 sfan5 PenguinDad: dual gfx: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) + NVIDIA Corporation GF119M [GeForce GT 520M] (rev ff) 15:28 RealBadAngel sfan5, on which card its ok and wrong? 15:38 sfan5 RealBadAngel: intel 15:40 VanessaE so intel is both ok *and* wrong? :) 15:40 n4x apparently 15:43 RealBadAngel sfan5, it looks like intel's opengl is fucked up then 15:44 RealBadAngel im not sure what i should do in such situation 15:44 RealBadAngel reversing working code is not a solution 15:45 RealBadAngel imho rather filling bug report to Intel 15:46 RealBadAngel i do have HD 4670 and GTX 500Ti here, not experiencing any problems 15:46 RealBadAngel if those morons fucked up something let them fix it 15:46 sfan5 RealBadAngel: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/4542f7736e947fc855495ce754c3af44984dab4c 15:47 RealBadAngel that is not a solution 15:47 sfan5 why not 15:47 RealBadAngel its a workaround 15:47 sfan5 it still solves the problem 15:47 RealBadAngel im against it 15:47 sfan5 and what would you rather have, complaining users or a workaround? 15:47 RealBadAngel intel fucked up things, not us 15:47 sfan5 correct 15:48 sfan5 but users will complain that "minetest sucks" because it works everywhere else 15:48 sfan5 because everyone else is using the workaround 15:48 RealBadAngel hmm 15:48 RealBadAngel im not sure 15:48 RealBadAngel let other devs vote for it too 15:49 RealBadAngel i would rather fill an issue and send it to Intel 15:49 RealBadAngel theyre paid well enough to make their work 15:50 RealBadAngel we dont have to fix their problems 15:50 sfan5 adding a workaround does not prevent you from notifying intel 15:50 VanessaE add the workaround. 15:50 VanessaE you can always revert it in the future. 15:50 RealBadAngel using workarounds is not safe, sooner or later it will crash again 15:51 sfan5 it doesn't crash at all 15:51 RealBadAngel they have to obey the rules and standards 15:51 Zeno` I think we have to look at this from a user's perspective 15:51 sfan5 adding a workaround does not make standard invalid either 15:51 kahrl I fixed the whitespace error in that commit, here's the newest version: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/277d653cfe848fcfbdfea02afb48ea870f4cb852 15:52 Zeno` A user is not going give a shit whose problem it is 15:52 sfan5 ^ 15:52 RealBadAngel if their implementation is wrong, community have to let them know bout it 15:52 RealBadAngel and demand the solution 15:52 VanessaE Zeno`: +1 15:53 VanessaE plus, what's the likelyhood of intel actually fixing the issue? 15:53 RealBadAngel all of us are paying them, by buying their product, we do have right to demand it 15:53 VanessaE yes, we have that right, but they have the claimed right to ignore us. 15:53 VanessaE we're not Blizzard or Steam. 15:54 RealBadAngel so we have the same right 15:54 RealBadAngel and buy amd 15:54 RealBadAngel just follow Linus way, and show them a finger 15:54 RealBadAngel nothin less, nothin more 15:55 VanessaE yeah, that'll fly :) 15:55 VanessaE users will just find other software, not change their hardware 15:55 sfan5 but the user is going to say that minetest sucks because it has a graphics bug 15:55 sfan5 A user is not going give a shit whose problem it is 15:55 kaeza yes, but in the meantime, I can has workaround? 15:55 VanessaE remember, this is *integrated* chips in some cases. 15:55 VanessaE users *can't* change 15:55 RealBadAngel sure, we can make a workaround, but we should make a public statement thats only because Intel sucks 15:56 sfan5 >public statement 15:56 sfan5 lol 15:56 sfan5 <VanessaE> we're not Blizzard or Steam. 15:56 VanessaE RealBadAngel: as in sfan5's case, that's an integrated chip, so are you saying he has to unsolder his gfx chip and plunk an AMD chip on there? 15:56 RealBadAngel lol 15:56 sfan5 VanessaE: it's in the cpu, I'd have to buy a pin-compat. AMD cpu which does not exist 15:56 n4x basically, don't buy crappy overpriced hardware 15:57 VanessaE sfan5: ah, even worse. I presumed a laptop with a separate GPU chip or so. I'm not used to these CPU/GPU combo chips 15:57 RealBadAngel or rather choose what are you buying 15:57 RealBadAngel and avoid the cheap crap 15:58 RealBadAngel intel is good at makin CPUs but elsewhere sucks 15:58 sfan5 VanessaE: the nvidia is a seperate chip 15:58 sfan5 RealBadAngel: I'm not buying a laptop with AMD cpu just because 1 of the apps i use refuses to fix a bug with intel 15:58 RealBadAngel i wont be buyin laptop in any case 15:59 RealBadAngel laptops are not computers. theyre toys. 16:00 RealBadAngel if something is workin on a laptop its just luck. 16:01 RealBadAngel not to mention notebooks 16:01 RealBadAngel then it would be a miracle 16:02 sfan5 what 16:05 RealBadAngel ok ok, lets do workarounds 16:06 RealBadAngel but anyway we should inform folks that best results will be get using real GPUs 16:07 Calinou Intel IGPs are real GPUs 16:07 Calinou recent ones are fine… 16:07 sfan5 I was about to say that saying that will only start arguments 16:08 RealBadAngel Calinou, fine? you meant as a joke, and fine in meaning causing good ammount of laugh? ;) 16:08 RealBadAngel LPS (Laughs Per Second) ;) 16:09 RealBadAngel Intel GPUs are worth shit 16:09 Calinou Intel HD 4000/4400/4600 are fine, they can give you 30-60 FPS with proper settings 16:09 RealBadAngel they just dont know how to do that 16:09 Calinou (that is, usually, shaders off… I know you hate shader-less) 16:09 Calinou they do know, and try to keep a reasonable TDP 16:10 Calinou not 20 W 16:10 Calinou 200 W* 16:10 RealBadAngel they try to hit different customers group 16:10 RealBadAngel they dont care bout gamers in this case 16:10 RealBadAngel this segment is just for office use and occasionaly video 16:11 RealBadAngel but not games at all 16:11 Zeno` and sometimes minetest :D 16:11 gravgun RBA, if you want a real GPU, buy real GPUs. 16:11 sfan5 Calinou: 60 fps, shaders on, no leaves in sight(that causes drops in fps) w/ my intel card 16:11 gravgun ^ same 16:11 RealBadAngel dont follow them 16:11 PenguinDad RealBadAngel: this could also simply be a mesa bug... 16:11 sfan5 ^ 16:12 RealBadAngel we do have 2 major players there, AMD and NVIDIA 16:12 sfan5 RealBadAngel: I can't choose not to have an intel card unless i use an amd cpu 16:12 RealBadAngel what? 16:12 RealBadAngel you can have amd cpu and nvidia card 16:12 kaeza how would it sound if I told the Windows userbase "fuck you, we will intentionally break Minetest so it won't run on Windows. get a real OS loser"? 16:12 RealBadAngel and vice versa 16:13 RealBadAngel and btw, "windows" is not a real os 16:13 RealBadAngel they are going to skip 9 and release 10 next yr 16:13 kaeza you missed the point 16:14 RealBadAngel im fixing a few computers each day, by fixing i mean format and clean install 16:15 RealBadAngel make 50 installs per week and come back to the discussion 16:15 gravgun RealBadAngel: me fixing mah computers: pacman -Syu. 16:15 RealBadAngel windows + intel is ubeliveable SHIT 16:15 gravgun Basically same 16:15 gravgun Windows + Intel = Wintel? 16:15 Calinou Intel's Windows drivers are not great, but are decent 16:15 RealBadAngel but is should be greatefull on the hand 16:15 Calinou please, stop dissing on drivers 16:15 sfan5 RealBadAngel: (almost)all intel desktop cpus have graphics intregrated 16:15 Calinou stuff also happens on your side, of your fault 16:15 VanessaE RealBadAngel: shit they may or may not be, but as you can clearly see that's what customers have and they're not gonna change what they already have if, to them, it generalyl works. 16:15 VanessaE generally* 16:15 RealBadAngel thx to their shit i earn money 16:16 sfan5 you can't buy an intel gfx card seperately 16:16 Calinou this is very unprofessional 16:16 Calinou dedicated cards are a burden to laptop (and some desktop) users, so don't expect them to get one 16:16 Calinou (IMO, they should disappear) 16:17 RealBadAngel i made once a mistake, for one of my clients i set xubuntu, on her laptop 16:17 sfan5 Calinou: why? and every non-beginner laptop has a dedicated card by nvidia or amd 16:17 RealBadAngel after that i got a few calls, how to do this and that 16:17 RealBadAngel then she stop calling me at all 16:17 y Calinou: yeah, they shouldn't exist, becausing upgrading hardware is a really dumb idea, lets buy a whole new cpu 16:18 RealBadAngel so i decided to call her and ask how the things go 16:18 RealBadAngel she answered it just works 16:18 Calinou sfan5, suddenly: Ultrabooks 16:18 RealBadAngel so i lost the customer 16:18 sfan5 Calinou: im talking about the average laptop 16:18 Calinou y, dedicated card is a cost, power, temperature, space and driver issue burden 16:18 Calinou Intel's graphics market share keeps on growing 16:19 y because you are forced to have one 16:19 sfan5 ultrabooks are special 16:19 sfan5 Calinou: intel cards don't even opencl iirc 16:19 Calinou they can. 16:19 y they do, but really crappy 16:19 gravgun sfan5: Beignet 16:19 Calinou both on Windows and GNU/Linux (using the controversial Beignet) 16:20 gravgun Oh I have an idea 16:20 gravgun lemme bring something even crappier 16:20 gravgun SoC gpus! 16:21 Calinou ARM SoC drivers are fast-food ones, that is well-known 16:21 gravgun (PowerVR comes to mind) 16:21 sfan5 gravgun: the intel gpu is in the cpu 16:21 gravgun sfan5: I know 16:21 sfan5 or at least on the same die 16:21 gravgun I even know HD 3/4xxx interact with CPU though memory maps 16:22 gravgun like most SoC GPUs 16:22 gravgun so design is kinda the same I know 16:22 gravgun but it's for actual desktop usage here 16:27 RealBadAngel so, i do agree on Kahrl's workaround 16:27 * sfan5 agrees too 16:29 Calinou it gave me an idea 16:29 Calinou detect hardware, disable some settings on slow hardware 16:29 Calinou eg. Intel would have shaders off by default, no fancy trees 16:30 Calinou to have better defaults 16:30 Calinou same for view distance 16:31 Zeno` ok, well it should me merged then 16:32 Calinou what is the workaround anyway? 16:32 Zeno` Calinou, nobody knows now 16:33 VanessaE [11-22 10:53] I fixed the whitespace error in that commit, here's the newest version: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/277d653cfe848fcfbdfea02afb48ea870f4cb852 16:33 Zeno` Oh yeah, /me remembers 16:42 ShadowNinja Sokomine: There is an option -- noclip. You'll probably have it on all creative servers. 16:44 Zeno` so, umm, is anyone merging it after that conversation? :D 16:45 Sokomine ShadowNinja: no. noclip is not a solution for this problem. noclip sometimes even makes placement of such nodes as i'm concerned about harder. same way as fly is not always the solution. there are situations where fly has to be turned off in order to achieve the desired outcome (i.e. shift+rightclick something). noclip is for entirely diffrent situations than "i want to build in a tight spot" 16:49 VanessaE plus you don't always want to grant noclip 16:49 ShadowNinja Sokomine: noclip is for passing through solid objects, which is what you're doing. 16:49 Zeno` is this the "not place node inside player position" thing? 16:49 VanessaE my FFA and Vanilla servers gives fly but not noclip 16:49 VanessaE Zeno`: yeah 16:50 VanessaE noclip+fly also allows players to break into restricted areas, which is why I don't grant the former. 16:50 ShadowNinja Sokomine: If it's a nodebox and it's blocking the whole node then that should be fixed properly by checking the boxes. 16:50 VanessaE ShadowNinja: why is there such a huge resistance to making the behavior configurable? 16:51 Sokomine shadowninja: no, i'm not. what i'm placing are usually very small nodes. some have to be placed from the right direction in order to rotate accordingly. don't think about solid nodes here. think about thin nodeboxes - like those very slim panels that come out of the circular saw 16:51 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Because it's weird to pass through solid objects -- especially if it's only ones you place while you're inside them. 16:51 VanessaE ShadowNinja: weird to you, normal to everyone else :) 16:52 Sokomine or signs for that matter. handrails. something like that. no problem of walking past it once its placed. placing it with that you-cant-build-where-you-stand-thing like in the current master is not possible 16:52 VanessaE ShadowNinja: that's not a good enough argument for making that behavior configurable, and you know it. 16:52 ShadowNinja Sokomine: Then the border checking has to be fixed, not the feature removed. 16:52 VanessaE for not* making 16:53 Sokomine ShadowNinja: many things are weired 16:53 * Sokomine throws a look at the cobble in her inventory and wonders if she hasn't become a black hole a while ago 16:53 ShadowNinja Sokomine: But we don't aim for it (unless it's necessary to make a good game) 16:53 VanessaE Sokomine: not quite, you'll need a lot more mass yet :) 16:53 VanessaE ShadowNinja: "unless necessary to make a good *game*" 16:54 VanessaE ShadowNinja: in other words, let the game authors decide if that feature should be enabled or not 16:54 VanessaE make. it. configurable. 16:54 ShadowNinja Sokomine: If thin nodeboxes don't block the whole node your issue will be fixed. Make an issue for that on GitHub. 16:54 Sokomine ShadowNinja: please don't confuse my complaint with "i want to see through the world like noclip when burried in nodes". even when placing of nodes is again possible, that the-screen-turns-black-entirely will remain - thus no breach of noclip privilege for those that are concerned about it 16:55 Sokomine ShadowNinja: i was of the impression that the game is about building. you yourshelf did run a creative server. while that is not the ONLY way the game can be played, it is certainly one of its major features 16:56 Sokomine VanessaE: hmm. with bags filled? still not enough for a black hole? :) 16:56 VanessaE Sokomine: nope :) 16:56 Zeno` What's wrong with burying yourself anyway? I do it all the time in real life 16:56 ShadowNinja Sokomine: Yes, and the full-node checks are an annoying bug. 16:56 VanessaE Sokomine: you'll need something like 5 times the mass of the sun :) 16:56 Calinou_ in creative mode, I think you should always be able to place blocks in yourself 16:56 Calinou_ makes sense 16:56 ShadowNinja Sokomine: Proper checks would work just fine, right? 16:57 Sokomine oh..ok. there might not be enough mass in the entire mt world for that 16:57 Sokomine we're not talking about creative mode here. it does not even have much to do with how the game is 16:59 Sokomine and then there's of course pillaring up. that means putting a node at your feet. usually a full node that can easily be digged up again. a cheap way of scaffolding 16:59 Sokomine ShadowNinja: proper checks would help. yet they would be pretty complicated. you'd have to check if the player can still stand there once the node is placed 17:00 Sokomine and even then - the player might be *slightly* off - because he was trying to get into the right position so that the node will adjust 17:01 Sokomine a simple rule which will not cover all cases but ought to help a lot already would be the following rule: if it's at the feet of the player, allow placement anyway. if it's at eye level height, allow placement if it's got another drawtype than the normal cube 17:01 VanessaE G*d people, just make the behavior critical. it'll take a few lines of code, default to "can't build at your feet", Sokomine and I (yeah, I don't like it either) can turn it back on in .conf, and everyone can be happy. 17:01 VanessaE critical? 17:01 VanessaE er 17:01 VanessaE configurable! 17:01 Calinou_ can be disabled client-side already :p server doesn't check 17:02 Sokomine guess about half the players will turn it to the building-enabled version. there have been enough ones that complained about it in the past 17:02 Calinou_ I'm tempted to fork client to add various features, but I'm afraid it'd run out of date 17:02 Calinou_ VanessaE, do you think it is worth it? 17:02 VanessaE Calinou_: nope. 17:02 Sokomine Calinou_: yes, the client can be patched so that it is disabled. this does require editing the code. always. whenever there's a change to the sources. that is what i'm doing now for since that feature exists 17:03 * Zeno` doesn't understand 17:03 Zeno` Why is it such a big deal to make it configurable? 17:05 Calinou_ we should be careful about not overloading minetest.conf 17:06 Calinou_ (this is why I proposed namespaces: to make loading minetest.conf less troublesome) 17:06 Zeno` it already is in a way 17:06 Calinou_ we could have minetest-client.conf, minetest-common.conf minetest-server.conf perhaps 17:06 Zeno` I don't think that's a good argument to put forward for being against an option 17:07 Zeno` heck, look at Apache config files if you think minetest.conf is "heavy" :) 17:07 Sokomine Zeno`: i guess some devs just never did build anything seriously with nodeboxes, so they don't understand the problem. or their buildings are more on a 3:1 scale so that there's so much room inside that it doesn't matter 17:08 Zeno` (my comment has nothing to do with your proposal, btw, Calinou_ ... it's just an observation about adding things to .conf) 17:09 Calinou_ yes 17:09 Calinou_ it can be added 17:12 Zeno` Anyway, this may make me unpopular, but I think we (devs) need to start listening to users more and not enforce *our* ideas on users unless there is a good reason to 17:12 Zeno` And I really can't see a good reason to not make this configurable 17:13 Calinou in doubt, make something configurable if it makes sense 17:13 Zeno` AFAIC there is not strong argument to *not* make it configurable other than some strange sense of what's "right" 17:15 VanessaE "right" and "good gameplay" can only be ascertained by the people who play the games or who maintain those games that are being played. 17:15 Zeno` That's why I put "right" in quotes 17:15 VanessaE maintainers of the engine, to be quite blunt, really are not the people to ask about gameplay unless they also fall within one of those two groups :) 17:17 Calinou we don't have that much core developers too 17:18 Zeno` Calinou, and that's why we should listen more to gamers and those who maintain those games (IMO) 17:19 Zeno` TBH I don't care about this build inside yourself issue, but apparently others feel strongly about it 17:19 kilbith some devs are like politics, not that aware of reality but dictate anyways 17:19 Zeno` To me it's a a non-issue: just make it configurable 17:19 Zeno` It's what... one line of code? 17:20 Zeno` maybe two if you count braces 17:20 Zeno` And then everyone is happy 17:21 Calinou developers don't like listening to gamers 17:21 kilbith like politicals with people 17:22 Sokomine Zeno`: yes. one line of code (namely checking for that config value). plus maybe 2 lines added in the example config so that people know what it does 17:23 Sokomine i havn't sent a pull request myshelf because i'd feel akward to post such a small request 17:23 Calinou it is fine to post a PR for a few lines 17:23 Calinou I've done so 17:24 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1856 17:24 RealBadAngel ive pushed there mesh rotation helpers 17:24 RealBadAngel any objections? 17:25 Calinou does this let modders rotate meshes at load or runtime? 17:25 Calinou would be great 17:26 RealBadAngel this is just method, to be used later on 17:27 RealBadAngel irrlicht provides method to rotate single vertice 17:27 RealBadAngel ive implemented the same for whole mesh 17:27 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/312 17:27 Calinou can this be merged? 17:28 RealBadAngel ~~ idk, up to you 17:28 RealBadAngel im neutral 17:29 RealBadAngel need a voice, got it 17:29 Calinou is neutral an approval? 17:30 * Krock thinks, he should care a bit more about MTG 17:30 Calinou that would make people care a lot more! 17:31 Zeno` RBA, this PR will open up opportunities for improvement? 17:32 Zeno` And it's currently unused? If so, I will agree. 17:34 RealBadAngel Calinou,well, +1 17:34 RealBadAngel Zeno`, unused. those are methods i do need 17:34 RealBadAngel will be used in next commits 17:35 RealBadAngel just pushing them now because theyre too generic 17:36 Zeno` Well, I don't know what the policies are regarding incorporating/porting irrlicht into minetest, but if there are no policies broken I say go 17:36 RealBadAngel there was a case already, 1 yr ago 17:36 RealBadAngel ive copied over one fuction for use with l-systems 17:37 RealBadAngel so its just a matter of style not the funcionality 17:38 Zeno` I have no particular objection if license compliance and style are ok 17:38 Calinou Irrlicht is zlib, so (L)GPL-compatible 17:39 RealBadAngel i will squash the PR and will merge it then 18:24 paramat hi nore, sfan5, sorry to bother you again about this, please can https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336 be merged? please read the last comment for details. if you want mgv5 biomes for 0.4.11 this needs to be merged very soon, the nodes need to be merged before i can make the pinetree schematics =) 18:26 sfan5 paramat: can you consider a different leaves texture? does this pull take the recent texture changes into account? (aka are the texture modified new textures?) 18:34 paramat sfan5 yes im fine with a new needles texture, if i can find one 18:36 paramat sfan5 i don't think my pull is affected by the new MTG textures 18:36 sfan5 didn't the wood texture change or smth.? 18:37 paramat don't think so, can anyone correct me? 18:37 sfan5 I'm not sure either 18:37 paramat im looking through commits now 18:37 sfan5 thats why I'm asking 18:40 paramat checked back to July, no change to wood or tree textures. my textures were derived from default textures long after July 18:41 paramat ah wood colours were changed in April 18:42 paramat but thats before i created my textures so it's okay 18:45 paramat you don't like the needles texture? i'll look for another, it can always be changed later, nore what do you think of the needles texture? seems okay to me, at least for the moment 18:45 sfan5 it's okay 18:45 sfan5 but I'd prefer a diff. one 18:45 paramat i can edit it in GIMP 18:45 nore well, I like the one in mg 18:46 nore this one is a bit too light I reckon 18:46 paramat okay i can make a darker one with more contrast, and show it to you later tonight/tomorrow? 18:47 paramat oh hang on, i could just use the mg texture ... 18:47 paramat it's up to you guys 18:47 sfan5 the mg texture if based on the previous leaf texture in _game 18:48 sfan5 if we use that w/o modifications it'll bring some variance 18:48 paramat ah no good, needles need to look like needles, not leaves 18:49 paramat i'll edit Splizard's texture and see what you think later or tomorrow 18:49 paramat bbl 18:54 paramat hm the mg pine leaves texture seems okay, it doesn't look like normal leaves, i think i'll use it in my commit, for now at least, i guess this is okay with you two? 18:54 nore it is with me 18:55 nore just don't forget to add it to the textures licenses file (it is CC-BY-SA by Zeg9 IIRC) 18:55 paramat okay thanks 19:07 VanessaE strange issue with current HEAD... I seem to be jammed in all-view-range mode or at least my view range is stuck at a really high value when it should not be 19:08 VanessaE yeah, it's just a long view range (almost 240), because fog is still visible in the distance. 19:09 VanessaE weird. 19:09 * VanessaE tries again. 19:10 VanessaE hm, seems fine now. temporary glitch. 20:32 Krock sfan5, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1866 20:33 Krock It saves to much 20:50 RealBadAngel o! sapier is here 20:51 RealBadAngel whats up buddy? 20:57 RealBadAngel sfan5, you have commented irrlicht 1.8 code 20:58 RealBadAngel i havent changed it at all 20:58 Krock Is there already a request to make the view blurry near the borders of the window? 20:59 Krock Fucus. ath might be the word for it 20:59 RealBadAngel Krock, there is no possibility to add such effects atm 20:59 Krock oke 20:59 PenguinDad Krock: your eyes/brain already produce this effect 21:00 RealBadAngel it can be done with specialized shader 21:00 RealBadAngel but needs post processing shaders at all 21:00 Krock PenguinDad, yes but videos and screenshots look amazing with blur 21:01 RealBadAngel and btw, i have tested this very effect in terasology, and found it extremaly annoying in real gameplay 21:01 RealBadAngel but still nice ;) 21:07 RealBadAngel squashed #1856, going to merge it now if there are no objections 21:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1856 -- Port createForsythOptimizedMesh from Irrlicht 1.8 by RealBadAngel 21:21 Sokomine finally made the pull reqest: #1867 would be glad if it could be approved. and a lot of players would be glad as well 21:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1867 -- added enable_build_where_you_stand option by Sokomine 21:21 paramat \O/ 21:22 Krock Sokomine, lookup markdown and replace the code-codes :3 21:22 kilbith +1 Sokomine 21:22 Krock but it looks good 21:30 paramat shorter is better, i think the word enable isnt needed ;] 21:33 Megaf +1 Sokomine 22:32 paramat sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336#issuecomment-64097813 new needles texture preview 22:34 VanessaE paramat: -1, pine needles just aren't that dark 22:34 VanessaE I ave tons of pines around me and none are anywhere near as dark as that 22:34 VanessaE have* 22:35 paramat i agree, but the darkness was requested 22:36 VanessaE frankly, I like the lower texture better, but it's still too dark imho 22:42 paramat mg's texture was derived from the old leaves texture, looks too much like dark leaves to me, not needles 22:43 kilbith paramat: also, let pass more space between the needles. there are not that 'tight' IRL... 22:44 VanessaE bbl 22:44 kilbith they* 22:44 paramat hm could do. dense looks better to me 22:46 kilbith unrealistic 22:49 sfan5 paramat: please make it a bit lighter 22:49 sfan5 not that dark 22:49 casimir I like splizard's needles texture the way it is. But make sure to add a dark green background colour, so they are not that ugly when fancy leaves are turned off. (Should be done for the other leaves too.) 22:50 paramat okay, it matches your mg texture in darkness 22:50 paramat ah a coloured background, yes 22:51 paramat thanks, much to do then 22:53 paramat i'll update and rebase the commit ready for sunday