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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-11-22

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Time Nick Message
00:20 prozacgod joined #minetest-dev
00:31 Sokomine paramat: that you-cant-build-where-you-stand could be solved with a single line i think...just add an option so that that particular check always returns true for people who want to build
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01:25 Sokomine yes, a single config option would solve my problem (and that of other builders). can't that be added? it sounds...exaggerated...to start a pull request for a single line...
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01:46 pitriss Sokomine: i support your idea.
02:01 Ritchie Sokomine: i support your idea too
02:01 n4x nice one fn
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03:09 Zeno` Megaf, do you still have a local copy of my repo? If so can you git pull and git checkout fix_ambient_occlusion and test again please?
03:12 Zeno` Anyone else who wants to test: https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commit/​fed354992ee5b16a2a4d6c8f66d07dccefe75853
03:15 VanessaE Zeno`: can't put my finger on it, but that seems a little different from before
03:15 VanessaE (just tested)
03:15 Zeno` great
03:15 Zeno` :)
03:15 VanessaE emphasis on "little"
03:15 VanessaE might be imagining it?
03:16 Zeno` Possibly
03:16 Zeno` It's different to my fix at 3:30AM though
03:16 Zeno` This way is correct and the same as before
03:16 Zeno` well, it's the same as before
03:17 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011212014%20-%2010%3a18%3a18%20PM.png
03:17 Zeno` Looks right to me
03:18 VanessaE note that the shading on the tops of the left/right parts of the _--_ structure on the right still reacts to placing a block under it
03:18 VanessaE but I guess you weren't addressing that
03:18 Zeno` No, I just wanted to get it back to how it was day before yesterday
03:19 Zeno` Before tackling what is (I think?) a different issue
03:19 VanessaE *nod*
03:19 VanessaE just making sure we're talking about different issues.
03:19 VanessaE so yeah, I guess if that screenshot is right, then you're good.
03:19 VanessaE especially since you and I seem to be blind ;)
03:20 Zeno` yep. So "on the tops of the left/right parts of the _--_ structure on the right still reacts to placing a block under it" is there before my previous commit?
03:20 VanessaE yeah
03:21 VanessaE that's an old issue.  I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't any mixup between that and other shading glitches, since it's related
03:21 VanessaE now for the inevitable Megaf test ;)
03:21 Zeno` cool
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03:24 Fritigern OMG It broke ALL of my worlds, impregnated my (male!) hamster and curdled my coffee!!!
03:25 VanessaE Fritigern: you forgot about making kittens cry and creating black holes.
03:25 Fritigern Oh yeah, that too!
03:25 Fritigern sucked in my computer, so now i am using this crappy quantum computer. It's here, but it isn;t
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03:36 Zeno` What does being assigned to an issue mean?
03:36 Zeno` ShadowNinja, assigned me
03:36 n4x that you are meant to fix it, so go work on it, slave developer! ;P
03:36 Zeno` Aww, dat's not fair!
03:38 ShadowNinja Zeno`: It means you're working on it or will be working on it.  I set it because you said as much in a comment.
03:38 Zeno` Thanks
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04:37 Jericho Can someone help me set up a local server for me and my little brother? Both laptops run ubuntu, if that means anything
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07:35 RealBadAngel Jericho, better ask in #minetest
08:02 Jericho Ok, thank you
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08:51 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1865 → tag as enhancement (good for modding)
08:51 Calinou hi Zeno` :)
08:52 Zeno` hi Calinou
08:53 Calinou I would like a “proposal” label for the issue tracker; basically enhancements or feature requests that are “explained” in the issue
08:53 Calinou thus, already a part of the work is done (more or less)
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08:59 Zeno` I proposal different than feature request?
08:59 Zeno` Is*
09:06 Calinou proposal = what should be done is accurately explained
09:07 Calinou feature request = “Add curvable blocks please”, proposal = “Add curvable blocks, such as, … here are models, … here are proposed recipes”
09:07 Calinou so the proposal is potentially easier to implement
09:07 Zeno` Yes. There is no proposal label, so I guess someone will have to add it
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10:10 Zeno` RealBadAngel, can you check #1864 please?
10:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1864 -- Fix smooth lighting regression by Zeno-
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11:48 Zeno` can anyone look at #1864?
11:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1864 -- Fix smooth lighting regression by Zeno-
11:49 Zeno` also... hmm I can't connect to github
11:49 sfan5 if it fixes the issue you have my approval
11:49 Zeno` ah there it is. Also: 1864
11:50 Zeno` it fixes the issue :)
11:50 Zeno` Been playing all day because it made me paranoid
11:50 Zeno` I can't check #1863 directly although it looks right
11:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1863 -- Fix compiling if no endian.h found by neoascetic
11:50 Zeno` Krock?
11:51 Krock Zeno`, testing
11:53 Krock Zeno`, client.cpp compiled fine
11:53 Krock seems to work
11:54 Zeno` thanks
11:54 Zeno` sfan5, any comments on #1863?
11:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1863 -- Fix compiling if no endian.h found by neoascetic
11:54 sfan5 again: if it fixes the issue you have my approval
11:54 Zeno` Ok, I'll merge them both because they both fix bugs/regressions
11:56 Zeno` Why is my internet so slow :/
11:59 Zeno` thanks
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14:02 Zeno` #1644
14:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1644 -- Refactor main by Zeno-
14:03 Zeno` yay, nay, undecided?
14:03 kilbith amen
14:03 PenguinDad *takes a deep breath* Yay ;)
14:04 RealBadAngel just push a button
14:06 RealBadAngel Zeno`, just for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgeL5C1DmUw
14:06 Zeno` nah, I'll do git apply --check at least :D
14:07 Zeno` I love van halen
14:08 RealBadAngel everybody... Fire in the Hole!
14:08 Zeno` ok, so RBA agrees (?), Kahrl has looked at it many times. I think that the only way the PR can progress is if it's merged.
14:08 Zeno` brb, finding some Bourbon
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14:10 Zeno` $ git apply --check 1644.patch
14:10 Zeno` [crobbins@localhost minetest]$
14:10 Zeno` :-o
14:10 Zeno` I still need that Bourbon or 2... bb very soon
14:14 Zeno` Ok, this PR is too old and too much tested
14:14 Zeno` I'll wait for RBA to come back but I'll merge it then
14:19 Krock It would be cool if nodeboxes could be somehthing like glasslike_connected /Offtopic
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14:22 Krock Zeno`, does it increase the gameplay speed somehow?
14:23 Zeno` Krock, nope
14:23 RealBadAngel but it allows the speedup changes easier
14:23 Zeno` it makes it easier to maintain and add new features
14:23 Zeno` yes, later
14:24 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw
14:24 RealBadAngel :)
14:27 Krock somehow it reminds me to this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SezoGW_z9w0
14:27 Zeno` hah
14:28 Krock wrong link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkwgMMNXjTc
14:28 Zeno` Will things ever be the same again? It's the Final Countdown
14:28 Zeno` PSB are great
14:30 Zeno` 10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...
14:30 Krock 1 0
14:31 Zeno` fuse was faulty
14:32 RealBadAngel fire in the hole!
14:32 * RealBadAngel hides
14:32 Zeno` fire in the hole!
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14:33 PenguinDad I prefer this Fire in the Hole ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irOuRCkO0nQ
14:34 Zeno` err, I guess
14:34 Zeno` lol
14:36 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Cn-1hmOZQ
14:36 Zeno` oh gawd
14:36 RealBadAngel "gimme sip of vodka" ;)
14:36 shadowzone Oh great
14:37 RealBadAngel polish parody :)
14:37 * Zeno` hands the bottle to RBA
14:37 Zeno` sip away!
14:37 RealBadAngel bottoms up!
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15:03 sfan5 who broke the build?
15:03 sfan5 Zeno`
15:03 Zeno` The build is broken?
15:03 sfan5 game_params.requested_world_path);
15:03 sfan5 ^
15:03 sfan5 owait
15:04 sfan5 Zeno`: http://sprunge.us/gjGD
15:06 Zeno` change line 1517 to game_params.world_path
15:07 sfan5 that works
15:07 sfan5 now push that fix to master
15:07 Zeno` ok, I'll push a fix now
15:07 Zeno` thank you
15:09 sfan5 anyway
15:10 sfan5 who enabled bi-/tri-linear filtering for hotbar items
15:10 Zeno` not me
15:12 PenguinDad sfan5: do you have intel graphics?
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15:14 Zeno` sfan5, fixed in master/HEAD
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15:15 sfan5 PenguinDad: yes and no
15:16 sfan5 PenguinDad: dual gfx: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) + NVIDIA Corporation GF119M [GeForce GT 520M] (rev ff)
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15:28 RealBadAngel sfan5, on which card its ok and wrong?
15:38 sfan5 RealBadAngel: intel
15:40 VanessaE so intel is both ok *and* wrong? :)
15:40 n4x apparently
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15:43 RealBadAngel sfan5, it looks like intel's opengl is fucked up then
15:44 RealBadAngel im not sure what i should do in such situation
15:44 RealBadAngel reversing working code is not a solution
15:45 RealBadAngel imho rather filling bug report to Intel
15:46 RealBadAngel i do have HD 4670 and GTX 500Ti here, not experiencing any problems
15:46 RealBadAngel if those morons fucked up something let them fix it
15:46 sfan5 RealBadAngel: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/​4542f7736e947fc855495ce754c3af44984dab4c
15:47 RealBadAngel that is not a solution
15:47 sfan5 why not
15:47 RealBadAngel its a workaround
15:47 sfan5 it still solves the problem
15:47 RealBadAngel im against it
15:47 sfan5 and what would you rather have, complaining users or a workaround?
15:47 RealBadAngel intel fucked up things, not us
15:47 sfan5 correct
15:48 sfan5 but users will complain that "minetest sucks" because it works everywhere else
15:48 sfan5 because everyone else is using the workaround
15:48 RealBadAngel hmm
15:48 RealBadAngel im not sure
15:48 RealBadAngel let other devs vote for it too
15:49 RealBadAngel i would rather fill an issue and send it to Intel
15:49 RealBadAngel theyre paid well enough to make their work
15:50 RealBadAngel we dont have to fix their problems
15:50 sfan5 adding a workaround does not prevent you from notifying intel
15:50 VanessaE add the workaround.
15:50 VanessaE you can always revert it in the future.
15:50 RealBadAngel using workarounds is not safe, sooner or later it will crash again
15:51 sfan5 it doesn't crash at all
15:51 RealBadAngel they have to obey the rules and standards
15:51 Zeno` I think we have to look at this from a user's perspective
15:51 sfan5 adding a workaround does not make standard invalid either
15:51 kahrl I fixed the whitespace error in that commit, here's the newest version: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/​277d653cfe848fcfbdfea02afb48ea870f4cb852
15:52 Zeno` A user is not going give a shit whose problem it is
15:52 sfan5 ^
15:52 RealBadAngel if their implementation is wrong, community have to let them know bout it
15:52 RealBadAngel and demand the solution
15:52 VanessaE Zeno`:  +1
15:53 VanessaE plus, what's the likelyhood of intel actually fixing the issue?
15:53 RealBadAngel all of us are paying them, by buying their product, we do have right to demand it
15:53 VanessaE yes, we have that right, but they have the claimed right to ignore us.
15:53 VanessaE we're not Blizzard or Steam.
15:54 RealBadAngel so we have the same right
15:54 RealBadAngel and buy amd
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15:54 RealBadAngel just follow Linus way, and show them a finger
15:54 RealBadAngel nothin less, nothin more
15:55 VanessaE yeah, that'll fly :)
15:55 VanessaE users will just find other software, not change their hardware
15:55 sfan5 but the user is going to say that minetest sucks because it has a graphics bug
15:55 sfan5 <Zeno`> A user is not going give a shit whose problem it is
15:55 kaeza yes, but in the meantime, I can has workaround?
15:55 VanessaE remember, this is *integrated* chips in some cases.
15:55 VanessaE users *can't* change
15:55 RealBadAngel sure, we can make a workaround, but we should make a public statement thats only because Intel sucks
15:56 sfan5 >public statement
15:56 sfan5 lol
15:56 sfan5 <VanessaE> we're not Blizzard or Steam.
15:56 VanessaE RealBadAngel: as in sfan5's case, that's an integrated chip, so are you saying he has to unsolder his gfx chip and plunk an AMD chip on there?
15:56 RealBadAngel lol
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15:56 sfan5 VanessaE: it's in the cpu, I'd have to buy a pin-compat. AMD cpu which does not exist
15:56 n4x basically, don't buy crappy overpriced hardware
15:57 VanessaE sfan5: ah, even worse.  I presumed a laptop with a separate GPU chip or so.  I'm not used to these CPU/GPU combo chips
15:57 RealBadAngel or rather choose what are you buying
15:57 RealBadAngel and avoid the cheap crap
15:58 RealBadAngel intel is good at makin CPUs but elsewhere sucks
15:58 sfan5 VanessaE: the nvidia is a seperate chip
15:58 sfan5 RealBadAngel: I'm not buying a laptop with AMD cpu just because 1 of the apps i use refuses to fix a bug with intel
15:58 RealBadAngel i wont be buyin laptop in any case
15:59 RealBadAngel laptops are not computers. theyre toys.
16:00 RealBadAngel if something is workin on a laptop its just luck.
16:01 RealBadAngel not to mention notebooks
16:01 RealBadAngel then it would be a miracle
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16:02 sfan5 what
16:05 RealBadAngel ok ok, lets do workarounds
16:06 RealBadAngel but anyway we should inform folks that best results will be get using real GPUs
16:07 Calinou Intel IGPs are real GPUs
16:07 Calinou recent ones are fine…
16:07 sfan5 I was about to say that saying that will only start arguments
16:08 RealBadAngel Calinou, fine? you meant as a joke, and fine in meaning causing good ammount of laugh? ;)
16:08 RealBadAngel LPS (Laughs Per Second) ;)
16:09 RealBadAngel Intel GPUs are worth shit
16:09 Calinou Intel HD 4000/4400/4600 are fine, they can give you 30-60 FPS with proper settings
16:09 RealBadAngel they just dont know how to do that
16:09 Calinou (that is, usually, shaders off… I know you hate shader-less)
16:09 Calinou they do know, and try to keep a reasonable TDP
16:10 Calinou not 20 W
16:10 Calinou 200 W*
16:10 RealBadAngel they try to hit different customers group
16:10 RealBadAngel they dont care bout gamers in this case
16:10 RealBadAngel this segment is just for office use and occasionaly video
16:11 RealBadAngel but not games at all
16:11 Zeno` and sometimes minetest :D
16:11 gravgun RBA, if you want a real GPU, buy real GPUs.
16:11 sfan5 Calinou: 60 fps, shaders on, no leaves in sight(that causes drops in fps) w/ my intel card
16:11 gravgun ^ same
16:11 RealBadAngel dont follow them
16:11 PenguinDad RealBadAngel: this could also simply be a mesa bug...
16:11 sfan5 ^
16:12 RealBadAngel we do have 2 major players there, AMD and NVIDIA
16:12 sfan5 RealBadAngel: I can't choose not to have an intel card unless i use an amd cpu
16:12 RealBadAngel what?
16:12 RealBadAngel you can have amd cpu and nvidia card
16:12 kaeza how would it sound if I told the Windows userbase "fuck you, we will intentionally break Minetest so it won't run on Windows. get a real OS loser"?
16:12 RealBadAngel and vice versa
16:13 RealBadAngel and btw, "windows" is not a real os
16:13 RealBadAngel they are going to skip 9 and release 10 next yr
16:13 kaeza you missed the point
16:14 RealBadAngel im fixing a few computers each day, by fixing i mean format and clean install
16:15 RealBadAngel make 50 installs per week and come back to the discussion
16:15 gravgun RealBadAngel: me fixing mah computers: pacman -Syu.
16:15 RealBadAngel windows + intel is ubeliveable SHIT
16:15 gravgun Basically same
16:15 gravgun Windows + Intel = Wintel?
16:15 Calinou Intel's Windows drivers are not great, but are decent
16:15 RealBadAngel but is should be greatefull on the hand
16:15 Calinou please, stop dissing on drivers
16:15 sfan5 RealBadAngel: (almost)all intel desktop cpus have graphics intregrated
16:15 Calinou stuff also happens on your side, of your fault
16:15 VanessaE RealBadAngel: shit they may or may not be, but as you can clearly see that's what customers have and they're not gonna change what they already have if, to them, it generalyl works.
16:15 VanessaE generally*
16:15 RealBadAngel thx to their shit i earn money
16:16 sfan5 you can't buy an intel gfx card seperately
16:16 Calinou this is very unprofessional
16:16 Calinou dedicated cards are a burden to laptop (and some desktop) users, so don't expect them to get one
16:16 Calinou (IMO, they should disappear)
16:17 RealBadAngel i made once a mistake, for one of my clients i set xubuntu, on her laptop
16:17 sfan5 Calinou: why? and every non-beginner laptop has a dedicated card by nvidia or amd
16:17 RealBadAngel after that i got a few calls, how to do this and that
16:17 RealBadAngel then she stop calling me at all
16:17 y Calinou: yeah, they shouldn't exist, becausing upgrading hardware is a really dumb idea, lets buy a whole new cpu
16:18 RealBadAngel so i decided to call her and ask how the things go
16:18 RealBadAngel she answered it just works
16:18 Calinou sfan5, suddenly: Ultrabooks
16:18 RealBadAngel so i lost the customer
16:18 sfan5 Calinou: im talking about the average laptop
16:18 Calinou y, dedicated card is a cost, power, temperature, space and driver issue burden
16:18 Calinou Intel's graphics market share keeps on growing
16:19 y because you are forced to have one
16:19 sfan5 ultrabooks  are special
16:19 sfan5 Calinou: intel cards don't even opencl iirc
16:19 Calinou they can.
16:19 y they do, but really crappy
16:19 gravgun sfan5: Beignet
16:19 Calinou both on Windows and GNU/Linux (using the controversial Beignet)
16:20 gravgun Oh I have an idea
16:20 gravgun lemme bring something even crappier
16:20 gravgun SoC gpus!
16:21 Calinou ARM SoC drivers are fast-food ones, that is well-known
16:21 gravgun (PowerVR comes to mind)
16:21 sfan5 gravgun: the intel gpu is in the cpu
16:21 gravgun sfan5: I know
16:21 sfan5 or at least on the same die
16:21 gravgun I even know HD 3/4xxx interact with CPU though memory maps
16:22 gravgun like most SoC GPUs
16:22 gravgun so design is kinda the same I know
16:22 gravgun but it's for actual desktop usage here
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16:27 RealBadAngel so, i do agree on Kahrl's workaround
16:27 * sfan5 agrees too
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16:29 Calinou it gave me an idea
16:29 Calinou detect hardware, disable some settings on slow hardware
16:29 Calinou eg. Intel would have shaders off by default, no fancy trees
16:30 Calinou to have better defaults
16:30 Calinou same for view distance
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16:31 Zeno` ok, well it should me merged then
16:32 Calinou what is the workaround anyway?
16:32 Zeno` Calinou, nobody knows now
16:33 VanessaE [11-22 10:53] <kahrl> I fixed the whitespace error in that commit, here's the newest version: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/​277d653cfe848fcfbdfea02afb48ea870f4cb852
16:33 Zeno` Oh yeah, /me remembers
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16:42 ShadowNinja Sokomine: There is an option -- noclip.  You'll probably have it on all creative servers.
16:44 Zeno` so, umm, is anyone merging it after that conversation? :D
16:45 Sokomine ShadowNinja: no. noclip is not a solution for this problem. noclip sometimes even makes placement of such nodes as i'm concerned about harder. same way as fly is not always the solution. there are situations where fly has to be turned off in order to achieve the desired outcome (i.e. shift+rightclick something). noclip is for entirely diffrent situations than "i want to build in a tight spot"
16:49 VanessaE plus you don't always want to grant noclip
16:49 ShadowNinja Sokomine: noclip is for passing through solid objects, which is what you're doing.
16:49 Zeno` is this the "not place node inside player position" thing?
16:49 VanessaE my FFA and Vanilla servers gives fly but not noclip
16:49 VanessaE Zeno`: yeah
16:50 VanessaE noclip+fly also allows players to break into restricted areas, which is why I don't grant the former.
16:50 ShadowNinja Sokomine: If it's a nodebox and it's blocking the whole node then that should be fixed properly by checking the boxes.
16:50 VanessaE ShadowNinja: why is there such a huge resistance to making the behavior configurable?
16:51 Sokomine shadowninja: no, i'm not. what i'm placing are usually very small nodes. some have to be placed from the right direction in order to rotate accordingly. don't think about solid nodes here. think about thin nodeboxes - like those very slim panels that come out of the circular saw
16:51 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Because it's weird to pass through solid objects -- especially if it's only ones you place while you're inside them.
16:51 VanessaE ShadowNinja: weird to you, normal to everyone else :)
16:52 Sokomine or signs for that matter. handrails. something like that. no problem of walking past it once its placed. placing it with that you-cant-build-where-you-stand-thing like in the current master is not possible
16:52 VanessaE ShadowNinja: that's not a good enough argument for making that behavior configurable, and you know it.
16:52 ShadowNinja Sokomine: Then the border checking has to be fixed, not the feature removed.
16:52 VanessaE for not* making
16:53 Sokomine ShadowNinja: many things are weired
16:53 * Sokomine throws a look at the cobble in her inventory and wonders if she hasn't become a black hole a while ago
16:53 ShadowNinja Sokomine: But we don't aim for it (unless it's necessary to make a good game)
16:53 VanessaE Sokomine: not quite, you'll need a lot more mass yet :)
16:53 VanessaE ShadowNinja: "unless necessary to make a good *game*"
16:54 VanessaE ShadowNinja: in other words, let the game authors decide if that feature should be enabled or not
16:54 VanessaE make. it. configurable.
16:54 ShadowNinja Sokomine: If thin nodeboxes don't block the whole node your issue will be fixed.  Make an issue for that on GitHub.
16:54 Sokomine ShadowNinja: please don't confuse my complaint with "i want to see through the world like noclip when burried in nodes". even when placing of nodes is again possible, that the-screen-turns-black-entirely will remain - thus no breach of noclip privilege for those that are concerned about it
16:55 Sokomine ShadowNinja: i was of the impression that the game is about building. you yourshelf did run a creative server. while that is not the ONLY way the game can be played, it is certainly one of its major features
16:56 Sokomine VanessaE: hmm. with bags filled? still not enough for a black hole? :)
16:56 VanessaE Sokomine: nope :)
16:56 Zeno` What's wrong with burying yourself anyway? I do it all the time in real life
16:56 ShadowNinja Sokomine: Yes, and the full-node checks are an annoying bug.
16:56 VanessaE Sokomine: you'll need something like 5 times the mass of the sun :)
16:56 Calinou_ in creative mode, I think you should always be able to place blocks in yourself
16:56 Calinou_ makes sense
16:56 ShadowNinja Sokomine: Proper checks would work just fine, right?
16:57 Sokomine oh..ok. there might not be enough mass in the entire mt world for that
16:57 Sokomine we're not talking about creative mode here. it does not even have much to do with how the game is
16:59 Sokomine and then there's of course pillaring up. that means putting a node at your feet. usually a full node that can easily be digged up again. a cheap way of scaffolding
16:59 Sokomine ShadowNinja: proper checks would help. yet they would be pretty complicated. you'd have to check if the player can still stand there once the node is placed
17:00 Sokomine and even then - the player might be *slightly* off - because he was trying to get into the right position so that the node will adjust
17:01 Sokomine a simple rule which will not cover all cases but ought to help a lot already would be the following rule: if it's at the feet of the player, allow placement anyway. if it's at eye level height, allow placement if it's got another drawtype than the normal cube
17:01 VanessaE G*d people, just make the behavior critical.  it'll take a few lines of code, default to "can't build at your feet", Sokomine and I (yeah, I don't like it either) can turn it back on in .conf, and everyone can be happy.
17:01 VanessaE critical?
17:01 VanessaE er
17:01 VanessaE configurable!
17:01 Calinou_ can be disabled client-side already :p server doesn't check
17:02 Sokomine guess about half the players will turn it to the building-enabled version. there have been enough ones that complained about it in the past
17:02 Calinou_ I'm tempted to fork client to add various features, but I'm afraid it'd run out of date
17:02 Calinou_ VanessaE, do you think it is worth it?
17:02 VanessaE Calinou_: nope.
17:02 Sokomine Calinou_: yes, the client can be patched so that it is disabled. this does require editing the code. always. whenever there's a change to the sources. that is what i'm doing now for since that feature exists
17:03 * Zeno` doesn't understand
17:03 Zeno` Why is it such a big deal to make it configurable?
17:05 Calinou_ we should be careful about not overloading minetest.conf
17:06 Calinou_ (this is why I proposed namespaces: to make loading minetest.conf less troublesome)
17:06 Zeno` it already is in a way
17:06 Calinou_ we could have minetest-client.conf, minetest-common.conf minetest-server.conf perhaps
17:06 Zeno` I don't think that's a good argument to put forward for being against an option
17:07 Zeno` heck, look at Apache config files if you think minetest.conf is "heavy" :)
17:07 Sokomine Zeno`: i guess some devs just never did build anything seriously with nodeboxes, so they don't understand the problem. or their buildings are more on a 3:1 scale so that there's so much room inside that it doesn't matter
17:08 Zeno` (my comment has nothing to do with your proposal, btw, Calinou_ ... it's just an observation about adding things to .conf)
17:09 Calinou_ yes
17:09 Calinou_ it can be added
17:12 Zeno` Anyway, this may make me unpopular, but I think we (devs) need to start listening to users more and not enforce *our* ideas on users unless there is a good reason to
17:12 Zeno` And I really can't see a good reason to not make this configurable
17:13 Calinou in doubt, make something configurable if it makes sense
17:13 Zeno` AFAIC there is not strong argument to *not* make it configurable other than some strange sense of what's "right"
17:15 VanessaE "right" and "good gameplay" can only be ascertained by the people who play the games or who maintain those games that are being played.
17:15 Zeno` That's why I put "right" in quotes
17:15 VanessaE maintainers of the engine, to be quite blunt, really are not the people to ask about gameplay unless they also fall within one of those two groups :)
17:17 Calinou we don't have that much core developers too
17:18 Zeno` Calinou, and that's why we should listen more to gamers and those who maintain those games (IMO)
17:19 Zeno` TBH I don't care about this build inside yourself issue, but apparently others feel strongly about it
17:19 kilbith some devs are like politics, not that aware of reality but dictate anyways
17:19 Zeno` To me it's a a non-issue: just make it configurable
17:19 Zeno` It's what... one line of code?
17:20 Zeno` maybe two if you count braces
17:20 Zeno` And then everyone is happy
17:21 Calinou developers don't like listening to gamers
17:21 kilbith like politicals with people
17:22 Sokomine Zeno`: yes. one line of code (namely checking for that config value). plus maybe 2 lines added in the example config so that people know what it does
17:23 Sokomine i havn't sent a pull request myshelf because i'd feel akward to post such a small request
17:23 Calinou it is fine to post a PR for a few lines
17:23 Calinou I've done so
17:24 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1856
17:24 RealBadAngel ive pushed there mesh rotation helpers
17:24 RealBadAngel any objections?
17:25 Calinou does this let modders rotate meshes at load or runtime?
17:25 Calinou would be great
17:26 RealBadAngel this is just method, to be used later on
17:27 RealBadAngel irrlicht provides method to rotate single vertice
17:27 RealBadAngel ive implemented the same for whole mesh
17:27 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/312
17:27 Calinou can this be merged?
17:28 RealBadAngel ~~ idk, up to you
17:28 RealBadAngel im neutral
17:29 RealBadAngel need a voice, got it
17:29 Calinou is neutral an approval?
17:30 * Krock thinks, he should care a bit more about MTG
17:30 Calinou that would make people care a lot more!
17:31 Zeno` RBA, this PR will open up opportunities for improvement?
17:32 Zeno` And it's currently unused? If so, I will agree.
17:34 RealBadAngel Calinou,well, +1
17:34 RealBadAngel Zeno`, unused. those are methods i do need
17:34 RealBadAngel will be used in next commits
17:35 RealBadAngel just pushing them now because theyre too generic
17:36 Zeno` Well, I don't know what the policies are regarding incorporating/porting irrlicht into minetest, but if there are no policies broken I say go
17:36 RealBadAngel there was a case already, 1 yr ago
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17:36 RealBadAngel ive copied over one fuction for use with l-systems
17:37 RealBadAngel so its just a matter of style not the funcionality
17:38 Zeno` I have no particular objection if license compliance and style are ok
17:38 Calinou Irrlicht is zlib, so (L)GPL-compatible
17:39 RealBadAngel i will squash the PR and will merge it then
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18:24 paramat hi nore, sfan5, sorry to bother you again about this, please can https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336 be merged? please read the last comment for details. if you want mgv5 biomes for 0.4.11 this needs to be merged very soon, the nodes need to be merged before i can make the pinetree schematics =)
18:26 sfan5 paramat: can you consider a different leaves texture? does this pull take the recent texture changes into account? (aka are the texture modified new textures?)
18:34 paramat sfan5 yes im fine with a new needles texture, if i can find one
18:36 paramat sfan5 i don't think my pull is affected by the new MTG textures
18:36 sfan5 didn't the wood texture change or smth.?
18:37 paramat don't think so, can anyone correct me?
18:37 sfan5 I'm not sure either
18:37 paramat im looking through commits now
18:37 sfan5 thats why I'm asking
18:40 paramat checked back to July, no change to wood or tree textures. my textures were derived from default textures long after July
18:41 paramat ah wood colours were changed in April
18:42 paramat but thats before i created my textures so it's okay
18:45 paramat you don't like the needles texture? i'll look for another, it can always be changed later, nore what do you think of the needles texture? seems okay to me, at least for the moment
18:45 sfan5 it's okay
18:45 sfan5 but I'd prefer a diff. one
18:45 paramat i can edit it in GIMP
18:45 nore well, I like the one in mg
18:46 nore this one is a bit too light I reckon
18:46 paramat okay i can make a darker one with more contrast, and show it to you later tonight/tomorrow?
18:47 paramat oh hang on, i could just use the mg texture ...
18:47 paramat it's up to you guys
18:47 sfan5 the mg texture if based on the previous leaf texture in _game
18:48 sfan5 if we use that w/o modifications it'll bring some variance
18:48 paramat ah no good, needles need to look like needles, not leaves
18:49 paramat i'll edit Splizard's texture and see what you think later or tomorrow
18:49 paramat bbl
18:54 paramat hm the mg pine leaves texture seems okay, it doesn't look like normal leaves, i think i'll use it in my commit, for now at least, i guess this is okay with you two?
18:54 nore it is with me
18:55 nore just don't forget to add it to the textures licenses file (it is CC-BY-SA by Zeg9 IIRC)
18:55 paramat okay thanks
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19:07 VanessaE strange issue with current HEAD... I seem to be jammed in all-view-range mode or at least my view range is stuck at a really high value when it should not be
19:08 VanessaE yeah, it's just a long view range (almost 240), because fog is still visible in the distance.
19:09 VanessaE weird.
19:09 * VanessaE tries again.
19:10 VanessaE hm, seems fine now.  temporary glitch.
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20:32 Krock sfan5, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1866
20:33 Krock It saves to much
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20:50 RealBadAngel o! sapier is here
20:51 RealBadAngel whats up buddy?
20:57 RealBadAngel sfan5, you have commented irrlicht 1.8 code
20:58 RealBadAngel i havent changed it at all
20:58 Krock Is there already a request to make the view blurry near the borders of the window?
20:59 Krock Fucus. ath might be the word for it
20:59 RealBadAngel Krock, there is no possibility to add such effects atm
20:59 Krock oke
20:59 PenguinDad Krock: your eyes/brain already produce this effect
21:00 RealBadAngel it can be done with specialized shader
21:00 RealBadAngel but needs post processing shaders at all
21:00 Krock PenguinDad, yes but videos and screenshots look amazing with blur
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21:01 RealBadAngel and btw, i have tested this very effect in terasology, and found it extremaly annoying in real gameplay
21:01 RealBadAngel but still nice ;)
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21:07 RealBadAngel squashed #1856, going to merge it now if there are no objections
21:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1856 -- Port createForsythOptimizedMesh from Irrlicht 1.8 by RealBadAngel
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21:21 Sokomine finally made the pull reqest: #1867 would be glad if it could be approved. and a lot of players would be glad as well
21:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1867 -- added enable_build_where_you_stand option by Sokomine
21:21 paramat \O/
21:22 Krock Sokomine, lookup markdown and replace the code-codes :3
21:22 kilbith +1 Sokomine
21:22 Krock but it looks good
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21:30 paramat shorter is better, i think the word enable isnt needed ;]
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21:33 Megaf +1 Sokomine
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22:32 paramat sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest​_game/pull/336#issuecomment-64097813 new needles texture preview
22:34 VanessaE paramat: -1, pine needles just aren't that dark
22:34 VanessaE I ave tons of pines around me and none are anywhere near as dark as that
22:34 VanessaE have*
22:35 paramat i agree, but the darkness was requested
22:36 VanessaE frankly, I like the lower texture better, but it's still too dark imho
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22:42 paramat mg's texture was derived from the old leaves texture, looks too much like dark leaves to me, not needles
22:43 kilbith paramat: also, let pass more space between the needles. there are not that 'tight' IRL...
22:44 VanessaE bbl
22:44 kilbith they*
22:44 paramat hm could do. dense looks better to me
22:46 kilbith unrealistic
22:49 sfan5 paramat: please make it a bit lighter
22:49 sfan5 not that dark
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22:49 casimir I like splizard's needles texture the way it is. But make sure to add a dark green background colour, so they are not that ugly when fancy leaves are turned off. (Should be done for the other leaves too.)
22:50 paramat okay, it matches your mg texture in darkness
22:50 paramat ah a coloured background, yes
22:51 paramat thanks, much to do then
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22:53 paramat i'll update and rebase the commit ready for sunday
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