Time Nick Message 01:58 paramat hey hmmmm please could you check code/merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1834 ? it is rebased and squashed, details in last comment 01:59 hmmmm sure 02:00 hmmmm ahh 02:00 paramat thanks, also preparing the overgen commit 02:01 hmmmm you realize that f * noise_ground->np->octaves * noise_ground->np->scale isn't the min/max of that noise? 02:01 hmmmm I am going to be adding lacunarity soon as a noise param, and if that is greater than 1, it would blow your entire assumption away 02:02 paramat ah okay 02:03 hmmmm hmm 02:03 paramat i assumed f * octaves * scale because persist is usually set below 1 02:03 paramat so i think it's okay currently 02:03 hmmmm i should probably add a utility function to Noise to calculate the min/max possible values 02:04 paramat i do that often with a calculator 02:05 paramat okay so i'll need to rewrite in future, but this works for spawning in the meantime 02:24 paramat hmmmm, here's the new pull request for a simpler (temporary) mgv5 overgeneration https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1855 02:36 paramat hmmmm, biomes certainly does need work, i have a suggestion for being able to set biome heat/humidity noise parameters in .conf, it's essential to tune the spreads depending on number of biomes, i'll probably attempt this myself 04:10 hmmmm just wondering how the overgeneration affects speed 04:10 hmmmm did you check that? 04:10 paramat no, but its from 80 to 82 node layers 04:10 hmmmm oh okay 04:11 paramat just 1 up 1 down 04:11 hmmmm i like the overgeneration idea, but the implementation could probably be improved, or generateBiomes could be improved, or both 04:11 hmmmm notice how at y=47 the biome 'top node' is discontinous? 04:11 hmmmm it forms a right angle 04:12 paramat yeah 04:12 hmmmm yea 04:12 paramat you mean in my commit? 04:13 hmmmm the screenshot on the pull request 04:13 paramat ah 04:14 paramat yes i think i see what you mean 04:15 hmmmm oh 04:15 paramat this is just a very minimal temporary overgen, because ive been working on deeper overgen and its complex, many weeks work perhaps 04:15 hmmmm when you write your commit messages, could you do it in the format of 04:15 hmmmm component: Add thing here 04:16 hmmmm for example 04:16 hmmmm Mapgen V5: Add overgeneration support 04:16 paramat okay 04:16 hmmmm thanks 04:16 paramat oh wow thanks for the merge 04:16 hmmmm what 04:17 paramat only just seen 04:27 Zeno` Ok I'm happy with #1852 now. Some good improvements in speed with few changes 04:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1852 -- Optimise getTileInfo(), CNodeDefManager::get() and VoxelManipulator::addArea() by Zeno- 04:28 hmmmm excellent 04:28 hmmmm addArea doesn't modify area any, right? 04:30 hmmmm you should probably add a const qualifier to those if so 04:30 Zeno` good point; I'll check 04:31 hmmmm yea, VoxelManipulator::addArea(const VoxelArea &area) 04:31 hmmmm it looks great! 04:31 Zeno` ok, will do 04:31 hmmmm i love when people make things faster 04:31 hmmmm minetest is too damn slow 04:31 Zeno` thanks. So you're ok with a merge once I fix that const qualifier? 04:31 hmmmm yea 04:32 Zeno` thanks 04:36 Zeno` area is modified 04:36 Zeno` hmm no it's not... will have to change some other functions 07:46 RealBadAngel hi 07:46 RealBadAngel #1856 07:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1856 -- Port createForsythOptimizedMesh from Irrlicht 1.8 by RealBadAngel 07:47 RealBadAngel i need that function to speed-up mapblock mesh, unfortunatelly its aviable only in irrlicht >=1.8, so i merged it into our codebase 07:49 Zeno` more performance improvements? :D 07:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: how much of an improvement will it lead to? 07:56 VanessaE corollary to that, is there a good reason to maintain compatibility with 1.7.x at this point? 07:57 RealBadAngel some distros still dont have 1.8 07:58 RealBadAngel and this is second case i ported back needed code, first time it was when i added l-system trees 07:58 RealBadAngel read: ages ago ;) 07:58 VanessaE well for those distros where 1.8 isn't yet available, it's not that hard to compile irrlicht 07:59 VanessaE just wondered is all 07:59 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/treegen.cpp#L496 08:00 RealBadAngel this code is aviable in 1.8 too 08:01 RealBadAngel anyway, either we switch to 1.8 now or i need patch above 08:02 Zeno` What's the performance gain? 08:02 RealBadAngel it depends on the models(meshes) 08:02 Zeno` lots or moderate? :) 08:02 RealBadAngel it simplifies the meshes, so they have less polygons 08:03 Zeno` Oh, there is a link to a paper. /me reads 08:03 RealBadAngel and its quite fast 08:03 RealBadAngel im already using that for all meshnodes and wielded 08:04 Zeno` In your own repo? 08:04 RealBadAngel in my worktree 08:04 Zeno` yep 08:04 RealBadAngel instead of cloneMesh im using this function 08:04 RealBadAngel i get a cloned mesh but optimized at the same time 08:05 Zeno` well if it's needed and we don't want to move to 1.8 then there cannot be a problem with this I'd expect :) 08:05 Zeno` And when we do move to 1.8 it would simply get removed (correct?) 08:05 RealBadAngel yup 08:06 RealBadAngel same as setRotationAxisRadians 08:29 VanessaE bbl 08:39 Zeno` I'm all for something that improves performance or leads to improved performance 08:41 kilbith fix the mem. leaks reported by VE, Sokomine, Megaf 08:42 Zeno` kilbith, I've started hunting 09:11 jin_xi Zeno: one def mem leak is the one with signs and such. celeron also mentioned a solution, which was to reference count texture ourselves. that would be a very worthwile addition imo 09:13 jin_xi http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-10-11#i_3976793 09:16 Zeno` hmm 09:17 Zeno` I dunno if signs would cause the kind of leak I'm seeing though 09:17 Zeno` I can get the client to use 10GB of RAM in about 15 minutes 09:17 jin_xi ugh 09:17 Zeno` maybe they can 09:17 Zeno` I'm going to try something 09:17 Zeno` it's hard to track down because at end of execution everything is cleaned up correctly 09:18 Zeno` I'll deliberately crash it 09:25 OldCoder Zeno`, Hi 09:25 Zeno` Hi 09:26 OldCoder Most people asleep? 09:26 Zeno` They've had several days of sleep. Must have eaten an enchanted apple 09:26 OldCoder Ah 09:40 Megaf_ heh, yesterday I was asking about Irrlicht 1.8 features here, and today we seem to soon get some https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1856 10:09 Megaf_ Comments? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1854#issue-49590015 10:31 Zeno` I have no issue with that Megaf_ (in theory) except for the fast_fly 10:31 Zeno` RealBadAngel, if your PR is needed to improve things then I say go for it 10:33 Megaf_ If the whole problem is with fly fast then I can just remove that... 10:34 Megaf_ That does seems like a personal opinion and seems like people like the way it is not because they find it better, but just because it is like that at the moment 11:05 Megaf_ Why this havent been marged yet? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336 11:05 Megaf_ #336 11:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/336 -- Settings checkboxes not saved if you quit without first leaving the Settings tab 11:06 Megaf_ not that 11:06 Megaf_ Pine tree, pine needles, pine saplng and pine wood nodes, stairs and slabs 11:08 Zeno` Dunno. I gave it a thumbs up just now 11:09 Megaf_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1643#issuecomment-63956484 11:09 Megaf_ #1643 11:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1643 -- Single player worlds should be visible regardless of selected game 11:10 Megaf_ !tell PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1643#issuecomment-63956484 11:10 ShadowBot Megaf_: O.K. 11:43 kahrl so... wieldmesh 11:43 kahrl I had an idea for fixing #1844 11:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1844 -- odd wield item glitch 2 11:44 kahrl if the extrusion mesh is split into two meshbuffers, one for the Y slices and one for everything else, anisotropic filtering can be forced on for only the problematic Y slices 11:44 kahrl so I implemented that: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/5709750ff403dfb68d2d7185888ef7c85e249c28 11:45 kahrl seems to work fine for me, but of course I never had the blurring problem so that's kind of pointless 11:45 kahrl if someone who has that blurring problem could test ^, that would be great 11:48 Zeno` kahrl, refactor_main is updated again :p 11:48 Zeno` kahrl, I'm also thinking of taking limitFps() out of thegame.cpp and putting it into something like utils/gfx.cpp (so it can be shared with main.cpp mainly). Thoughts? 11:51 Zeno` I 11:51 Zeno` I'd test your changes but I've never experienced the issue(s) either 11:51 kahrl Zeno`: yeah it makes sense to share a function like limitFps 11:52 kahrl how does main.cpp do it right now? 11:52 kahrl ah, just sleep_ms(25) 11:54 Zeno` yeah 11:54 Zeno` which is kind of fine but not great 11:55 Zeno` I mean it doesn't hurt, but I'd just like it consistent if that makes sense 11:55 Zeno` I'll split limitFps() out into it's own file some time (in the next week, or three heh) 11:56 kahrl Zeno`: maybe it would fit into drawscene.h 11:56 kahrl dunno though 11:57 Zeno` maybe, I'll keep thinking about it. It does seem strange having a file for just one function but maybe others can be moved into it as well 11:57 Zeno` will have to look more closely at some point 11:58 Zeno` Then again... maybe the whole irrlicht thing can be abstracted 11:59 Zeno` if it doesn't affect performance. If that happened then maybe a port to, I dunno, Ogre3d (just an example!) for the client could become possible 12:00 Zeno` that's very long term though 12:00 kahrl well I doubt that's feasible 12:00 kahrl at the least such an abstraction would be very leaky 12:00 Zeno` I think it could be done 12:00 Zeno` I got told that refactoring the_game() wasn't really feasible as well :P 12:01 kahrl well I don't want to tell you not to try it ;) 12:01 Zeno` Anyway, this is not anywhere near the top of my TODO list hehe 12:01 Zeno` It's way down the bottom and my TODO list is about to overflow 12:01 kahrl things like the formspec menu would have to be essentially rewritten probably 12:02 Zeno` yeah exactly 12:02 Zeno` I didn't say it would be *easy* 12:12 Zeno` I think #1847 is ok to merge unless there are objections 12:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1847 -- Use native byte-swapping for de/serialization by rafael7 12:13 Zeno` two core devs agreed; I'll merge in 30 minutes or so (assuming there are no further comments) 12:27 Megaf_ Zeno`: go for it 13:23 Zeno` what are people's thoughts on a feature freeze until 0.4.11 is released? 13:24 Zeno` i.e. only bug fixes and possibly performance issues addressed 13:25 Zeno` RealBadAngel, #1705 <-- does adding that back to shaders until 0.4.11 is released work for you? 13:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1705 -- Regression in smooth day-night transition 13:28 Zeno` kahrl, https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/d157219cb3ab3949147a9a87de6276341d93707a.patch adds one whitespace error :P 13:29 Zeno` other than that it seems ok to me... but I didn't experience the issue in the first place 13:31 Zeno` it does seem complicated though heh 13:32 Zeno` hmm, there may be a performance regression with it 13:32 Zeno` not sure 13:33 Zeno` fps difference with and without *seems* to be about 10fps on my computer 13:34 Zeno` hard to tell... I'll test with my ram-database later 13:41 Zeno` I guess feature freeze is boring, but surely it has to be done some time 13:43 Megaf_ +1 13:43 Megaf_ :) 13:46 Megaf_ just merge my PR before freezing things 13:47 Megaf_ If only a core dev agreed with it 14:01 kilbith RBA is doing such things on signlike, so not now IMO 14:01 kilbith and plantlike 14:04 kilbith .11 for xmas, .12 for july, etc. 2 releases/year 14:05 Zeno` possibly 14:05 Zeno` although signlike is a performance improvement AFAIK 14:06 Zeno` but where does it stop? 14:07 kilbith we can raise a major versionning in waiting more 14:07 Zeno` the next release is 0.4.11 though 14:07 Zeno` I'm not sure that should be changed 14:08 Zeno` The more new features get added the more there is to (potentially) debug 14:10 Zeno` I guess a related question is "does the current state of HEAD warrant a release"? 14:11 Zeno` (assuming there is a feature freeze for a bit so bugs can be squashed) 14:12 Megaf_ every x.x.n release could be bug fix and every x.n.x release could be new features 14:12 Megaf_ and n.x.x could be major changes 14:13 Megaf_ like new mapgen, new textures, new rendering engine 14:13 kilbith MT 1.x in ~15 years lol 14:14 n4x how are new textures a major change? 14:15 Megaf_ alone it isnt, be is should be included on with another major change 14:15 Megaf_ for a player view can be a major change 14:15 Megaf_ in a player point of view* 14:16 Megaf_ Im not talking about little textures changes.. Im talking about a total change in all textures at once 14:17 Zeno` well that then begs the question: "how do minetest_game changes affect the engine versioning?" :P 14:17 kilbith unrelated 14:19 Megaf_ so, when we say. Minetest version 3.4 14:19 Megaf_ to what are we referring to? 14:19 Zeno` no idea 14:19 Zeno` minetest_game, however, is not the engine 14:20 Zeno` and not part of the engine 14:22 Megaf_ -- Looking for include file endian.h 14:22 Megaf_ -- Looking for include file endian.h - found 14:22 Megaf_ interesting 14:22 Megaf_ and I will be testing this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1856 in a couple of minutes 14:26 jin_xi Megaf_: this adds a feature, but its not used yet afaict 14:26 jin_xi so you wont see any change 14:27 Zeno` yeah, it's not used yet 14:27 Megaf_ jin_xi: Im happy enough if it doesnt crass the game 14:27 Megaf_ crash* 14:27 jin_xi well, its not used in the game. you can test if it builds. 14:30 Megaf_ I will test some PR by Zeno` too 14:30 Megaf_ mostly tests like if it builds properly and doesnt breaks things 14:30 Zeno` which PR? 14:34 Zeno` :3 14:35 * Zeno` panics 14:36 VanessaE Megaf_: you don't need to test if it can build, Travis CI does that 14:37 VanessaE but testing if a commit breaks your normal workflow is always a good idea. 14:38 Megaf_ Yep, I do the second too 14:38 Megaf_ Zeno`: #1851 14:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1851 -- Cleanup updateCameraDirection and fix random input not working by Zeno- 14:38 Megaf_ and #1853 14:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1853 -- Add name of node pointed at to debug by Zeno- 14:41 Zeno` oh yeah, that needs to be merged (the first one) 14:42 Megaf_ let me test it first 14:42 Zeno` I can't merge without another core dev approving, but yes testing is most welcome 14:44 Megaf_ Ok, RBA thingy didnt cause any drawback 14:45 Megaf_ actualy it did 14:45 Megaf_ the field of view seems to be messed up now 14:45 Zeno` It cannot have done that... it's not used 14:46 Megaf_ hm 14:46 Megaf_ something looks weird 14:46 Zeno` so if FOV is messed up then it's something else :) 14:46 Megaf_ it noticed that after applying RBAs patch 14:47 * Zeno` looks again 14:47 Zeno` it's not used yet... must be a coincidence 14:48 Zeno` it's just "dead code" waiting to be put to a use 14:49 Megaf_ ok, so it must be something in my head... 14:51 Megaf_ Zeno`: Compiling #1851 agora 14:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1851 -- Cleanup updateCameraDirection and fix random input not working by Zeno- 14:52 Megaf_ s/agora/now 15:09 Megaf_ Zeno`: testing 1851 now 15:12 Megaf_ Zeno`: 1851 have passed Megaf's test 15:14 Zeno` thank thee 15:25 Megaf_ sfan5: did you do a rm CMakeCache.txt and make clean before compiling? 15:25 Megaf_ try a fresh git clone in another folder 15:25 VanessaE ... 15:25 Megaf_ #1858 15:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1858 -- std::bad_alloc 15:25 sfan5 I did a make clean 15:25 sfan5 didn't clean the cmake cache 15:25 Megaf_ I mean, I have no problem at all with that 15:26 Megaf_ sfan5: you have to remove CMakeCache too 15:26 Megaf_ and rerun cmake 15:26 sfan5 why 15:26 sfan5 I re-ran cmake multiple times 15:26 Zeno` meh, just do out of source builds... it's easier 15:27 Zeno` rebuilding with clang to test again 15:29 Zeno` are you sure that commit is the issue sfan5? 15:29 sfan5 no 15:29 sfan5 thats just the commit im on 15:29 Zeno` I think that needs to be cleared up first ;) 15:30 sfan5 hm 15:30 Zeno` ok with clang and your settings I don't have the issue 15:30 sfan5 can't reproduce with another clone 15:30 sfan5 but there's still the "no worldname given or no game selected" bug when you start minetest for the first time 15:31 Zeno` next! 15:31 Zeno` lol ;) 15:32 sfan5 nah 15:32 sfan5 might be because of -march=native 15:33 Zeno` building again 15:35 sfan5 yep 15:35 sfan5 crashes 15:35 Megaf_ I have found another bug, related to saving world localy 15:38 Zeno` sfan5, I still can't reproduce 15:38 Zeno` -g -O1 -Wall -march=native 15:38 sfan5 Zeno`: what does "echo | clang -### -E - -march=native" output? 15:39 Zeno` http://pastebin.com/Cci0ZAvE 15:40 Zeno` excuse the world name hehe 15:40 sfan5 >"-target-cpu" "core-avx2" 15:41 sfan5 it's "-target-cpu" "corei7-avx" for me 15:41 Zeno` hmm 15:42 Zeno` Ok, can you check if the commit prior to f7d6509 works? 15:43 sfan5 sure 15:43 Megaf_ Im downloading clang here 15:43 Megaf_ and I can test on an i7 too 15:43 Zeno` If it does then I guess I should revert f7d6509 15:44 Zeno` although I have nfi why it's an issue 15:44 sfan5 Megaf_: I have an i5 here, but the corei7-avx is probably for the whole i[357] series 15:44 Megaf_ isnt it better to fix instead of reverting? 15:44 sfan5 ofc 15:44 Zeno` Megaf_, if the game is not playable it's better to revert until why it's not working is determined (IMO) 15:45 sfan5 but only if we can figure out how to fix it 15:45 Megaf_ sfan5: still, my laptop is an AMD-E1, I believe I will not have the same issue, but I will try on another laptop we have here 15:46 Zeno` I have i7 15:46 sfan5 Zeno`: happens with d406ac9 too 15:46 sfan5 Zeno`: why is your target_cpu core-avx2 then? 15:46 Zeno` ok, well it's not the latest commit 15:46 sfan5 oh wait 15:47 Zeno` I have no idea 15:47 sfan5 you have an i7, those have avx2 15:47 sfan5 Zeno`: try -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS=-target-cpu corei7-avx 15:47 sfan5 that should work for you 15:47 sfan5 avx is backwards-compatible IIRC 15:47 Zeno` should work or break? 15:47 sfan5 work as in not a SIGILL 15:48 Zeno` ok one sec 15:48 sfan5 and breaks as in std::bad_alloc 15:48 sfan5 -s 15:48 Megaf_ my CPU does have avx too 15:49 Zeno` umm no I can't even run cmake with that 15:50 sfan5 why not 15:50 Zeno` target does not exist 15:50 sfan5 clang version? 15:50 Megaf_ my target here is "-target-cpu" "btver2" 15:50 Zeno` 3.4 15:50 sfan5 i have 3.5 15:50 sfan5 upgrade 15:50 Megaf_ sfan5: maybe you can use other target that is not your cpu? 15:51 sfan5 you can use any target you want 15:51 sfan5 the question is whether it will run on your current cpu 15:54 Megaf_ how can you see the list of available targets? 15:55 Zeno` 3.4.2 is the latest version I can get 15:55 Zeno` maybe bisect the issue and see where it started? 15:56 Zeno` sfan5 ^^ 15:57 sfan5 I'll do that 15:57 Zeno` I'm sorry I can't reproduce 15:57 Zeno` I'll install another distro tomorrow for testing and stuff 15:58 Megaf_ sfan5: can you give me your cmake line please? 15:58 sfan5 Megaf_: http://clang.llvm.org/doxygen/Targets_8cpp_source.html#l01969 15:58 sfan5 Megaf_: CC=clang CXX=clang++ cmake . -DBUILD_SERVER=0 -DENABLE_REDIS=0 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0 -DENABLE_SOUND=0 -DENABLE_GETTEXT=0 "-DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS=-D__extern_always_inline=inline -march=native" 16:00 Calinou -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0 and -DENABLE_REDIS=0 are redundant 16:00 sfan5 wrong 16:00 sfan5 redis is enabled by default 16:00 sfan5 and I actually wanted to write -DENABLE_LEVELDB=1 16:00 Megaf_ Calinou: wrong 16:01 Megaf_ sfan5: maybe thats why it crashes? 16:01 Calinou someone broke smooth lighting in Git? 16:01 sfan5 Megaf_: because leveldb is disabled? 16:01 Calinou why aren't all backends enabled if found? 16:01 Megaf_ if you map is leveldb 16:01 Calinou stop optimizing getTileInfo without testing the game… 16:02 Calinou 2nd time this happens 16:02 Megaf_ sfan5: and to compile with clang I run make? 16:02 sfan5 Megaf_: my map is newly created and sqlite3 16:02 Zeno` I was using a newly created map as well 16:02 sfan5 and it won't std::bad_alloc because it can't find the backend 16:02 sfan5 Megaf_: run cmake the way I did 16:02 sfan5 then run make 16:02 Megaf_ ok 16:03 Megaf_ compiling 16:03 Megaf_ we forgot this -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS=-target-cpu corei7-avx 16:03 Zeno` I created the world, changed map_meta.tx to sfan5's values, deleted the original *.sqlite files and re-launched 16:04 sfan5 Zeno`: the map meta is not relevant 16:04 sfan5 it happens with every v6 world 16:04 Zeno` well I wanted to make sure :) 16:06 Zeno` Megaf_, you were affected by the bug before #1851 ;) 16:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1851 -- Cleanup updateCameraDirection and fix random input not working by Zeno- 16:06 Zeno` add random_input = true to minetest.conf and try before and after the patch 16:07 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1859 → tag as bug 16:07 Megaf_ how do I add -target-cpu corei7-avx? 16:08 Megaf_ my cmake is like this at the moment cmake ../../ -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DBUILD_SERVER=0 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0 -DENABLE_REDIS=0 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1 "-DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS=-D__extern_always_inline=inline -march=native" 16:08 Zeno` Calinou, I see no problem. Can you be more descriptive? 16:08 Calinou GRR 16:09 VanessaE a screenshot would be good 16:09 Calinou you're a core developer and not seeing any difference between new and old? 16:10 Calinou OK, one sec 16:10 Zeno` Apparently so 16:10 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/gMxznO-H5I4i.png 16:10 Calinou broken 16:10 Calinou no ambient occlusion at node edges. 16:10 Calinou but light fades smoothly (see cave) 16:10 Calinou working: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/E_mXDbjD4PkF.png 16:12 VanessaE ah, yeah I see the difference 16:12 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1860 → also tag as bug 16:12 Calinou (that's fine for torches, but not non-glowing stuff :P) 16:12 VanessaE Calinou: you probably ought to put those screenshots in the bug report 16:12 Calinou OK 16:12 VanessaE but crop to subject 16:13 VanessaE 1860 is already known 16:13 VanessaE RBA's fixing it 16:14 Megaf_ Calinou: I confirmed your issues, just tested here 16:14 Calinou thanks :) 16:14 Calinou too lazy to crop :( I hope it's not too hard to notice 16:14 Megaf_ Zeno`: sorry to interrupt you, but how do I add the target CPU thing? 16:15 Megaf_ Calinou: I created a Minimal world and even there you can confirm, using v6 16:15 Megaf_ I go under the shadow of a tree and my wield item still at full brightness 16:15 Megaf_ also, theres no smoothing on the "corners" of nodes 16:16 Calinou [by the way: smoothing of node corners was worsened by some commit, but I didn't bother reporting it; it looks okay anyway] 16:16 Calinou try placing a single node in a flat area 16:16 Calinou there is (nearly) no smoothing 16:18 Megaf_ https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/6201512/5145348/e477d398-7199-11e4-8da6-e99d39564e06.png 16:18 VanessaE hm. I'd say smooth, but more subtle than it used to be; it's hard to tell 16:18 VanessaE I'm not at current HEAD, rather a couple weeks behind 16:19 Zeno` Calinou, does this look better: https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/tree/test 16:20 VanessaE Calinou: is this what you're seeing? http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011212014%20-%2011%3a21%3a29%20AM.png 16:20 VanessaE (that's a full block, the top just gets "lost" in the background because the shading is the same) 16:21 Calinou yes! 16:21 Calinou exactly 16:22 Calinou was broken by some April-June commit 16:22 Calinou (the one that was a speedup too) 16:23 VanessaE the same thing, with more nodes placed: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011212014%20-%2011%3a24%3a10%20AM.png 16:23 VanessaE (for reference) 16:23 Calinou I'll post an issue 16:23 VanessaE maybe it's just that the shading is too subtle? 16:24 Calinou there is none at all 16:24 VanessaE no, look again 16:24 VanessaE it's there 16:24 Calinou the way the checks are made make it impossible to have any shading 16:24 VanessaE it's just very subtle 16:24 VanessaE at least in my screenshots 16:24 Calinou or yes, it is too subtle due to the lack of checks 16:25 VanessaE feel free to copy&paste my screens into your bug if you want 16:26 VanessaE RealBadAngel would probably say to forget all lighting bugs because hardware-assisted lighting is coming Real Soon Now :) 16:26 Calinou done 16:26 Calinou yeah… but when will it? 16:26 VanessaE idk 16:28 * Megaf_ still downloading Zeno` branch 16:29 Zeno` I'll revert it tomorrow 16:30 Zeno` 3AM here, goodnight all 16:31 Zeno` I won't revert the whole thing though 16:32 Zeno` just that one function 16:32 Megaf_ $ clang --version 16:32 Megaf_ Debian clang version 3.5.0-6 (tags/RELEASE_350/final) (based on LLVM 3.5.0) 16:32 Megaf_ I dont have that target either Zeno` 16:32 Megaf_ good night Zeno` 16:32 Zeno` Thanks for pointing it out Calinou 16:35 Megaf_ Calinou: I'm compiling Zeno` branch to see if he fixed or reverted or whatever that 16:36 Zeno` Megaf_, it didn't 16:37 Megaf_ no? 16:37 Zeno` no 16:37 Zeno` I'll revert it and work out how to make it faster another time 16:38 Megaf_ Zeno`: I kinda like the way it is now 16:38 Megaf_ I dont why Calinou is so upset 16:41 Calinou smooth lighting is completely broken 16:41 Calinou we do not break features like this 16:41 Calinou do you developers play the game you develop? 16:41 Megaf_ some dont 16:43 Megaf_ sfan5: I cant confirm the clang issue, version 3.5 here and I dont have that target either... Just use gcc... 16:43 Megaf_ or other target 16:43 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 16:43 Megaf_ maybe its a clang bug... 16:45 Zeno` yes I play the game Calinou 16:45 Zeno` geez 16:45 Megaf_ Whos messing with signs again? 16:45 Megaf_ Every time someone messes with sign I have to remove them all and replace so I can actually read the text on them 16:45 Zeno` I acknowledged your issue and said I'd fix it. What more would you like me to do? 16:47 Calinou talking to Megaf_, RBA, sapier and all that 16:47 VanessaE Megaf_: what sign? 16:47 Zeno` My motivation for that change was to increase performance and I think I've done a pretty good job at that so far 16:47 Zeno` anyway, I am asleep :) 16:48 Megaf_ VanessaE: the one we can write using colors 16:48 VanessaE that's signs_lib and is not related to this channel 16:48 Megaf_ good night Zeno`, sleep well 16:48 Megaf_ VanessaE: ok 16:49 Megaf_ Calinou: I dont develop minetest, but I do play it, lol 16:49 VanessaE besides which, if you can't see the text, either an engine issue is preventing the entities from being displayed, or your entities-per-mapblock limit is set too low 16:49 Calinou Zeno`, then you may also break all shaders 16:49 Calinou that is good for performance 16:50 Megaf_ VanessaE: I will take the second option 16:50 Megaf_ Calinou: As matter of fact it is... 16:50 Calinou when you optimize such things, always test. no excuses 16:50 Calinou it happened once already 16:50 Calinou exact same issue 16:52 Zeno` I tested 16:52 Zeno` Calinou, can you please test https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/tree/test ? 16:52 Zeno` I've just updated it 16:53 Zeno` I test everything as much as anybody :/ 16:53 Zeno` or more 16:53 Zeno` sheesh 16:53 Zeno` I'm not here to ruin the game 16:53 Calinou cloning 16:53 Zeno` and was that exact same issue my fault last time? :( 16:53 Calinou how did you break smooth lighting like that then? 16:53 Calinou no, was sapier's, who did similar stuff 16:53 Megaf_ Calinou: stop complaining to Zeno`, he may be the only one who test this and the one who is working more now 16:54 Zeno` I didn't notice 16:54 Zeno` I tested nearly everything. I did not notice the subtle difference in rendering 16:54 Zeno` I can see it now though 16:54 Megaf_ Zeno`: Im compiling your new commit on test branch 16:55 Calinou subtle? :/ 16:55 Megaf_ Calinou: Yes, subtle 16:55 Calinou in theory it's subtle, in practice it's ultra obvious 16:55 Megaf_ VanessaE said that, Zeno` said that and now Im saying that too 16:55 Calinou except on a flat world 16:55 Megaf_ Zeno`: that fixes the smooth ligthing 16:56 Megaf_ Zeno`: wield item still at full brightness 16:56 VanessaE the wield item brighness issue is unrelated 16:56 Megaf_ maybe it doesnt fix, hard to tell 16:56 Calinou your fork does not work 16:57 Calinou in fact, smoothing works only if there is air below the smoothed nodes 16:57 Calinou _ X X _ 16:57 Calinou X _ _ X 16:57 Calinou X = node, _ = air (side view) 16:57 Calinou then you will have smoothing… 16:57 VanessaE lemme try that 16:58 Megaf_ there is smoothing everywhere 16:58 Megaf_ but at the corners 16:58 VanessaE that screenshot is solid stacks of sandstone, I didn't think to make the stacks hollow 16:58 Zeno` Ok, well I'll put the slow code back 16:59 Zeno` problem solved 16:59 Zeno` wait air below it? 16:59 Zeno` I just tested with sand below the nodes 16:59 Calinou no one has managed to make it faster without breaking stuff 17:00 Calinou yes, I'd like improvements to be able to use view range 150-200 with good FPS, but not if it breaks smooth lighting 17:00 Zeno` I have 17:00 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/83Sz-kj9OCnl.png 17:00 Calinou how it looks with your build ^ 17:00 Calinou clearly lacks smoothing 17:00 VanessaE wait, I see what calinou's saying, Zeno` 17:00 Zeno` ignoring that commit I have already increased FPS a lot 17:00 Zeno` VanessaE, yeah, I will revert it 17:01 VanessaE nono 17:01 Zeno` are you sure that's on the test branch? 17:01 VanessaE there's two issues in play here, I'm talking about the one above with the _ X X _ / X _ _ X diagram 17:01 Zeno` because that is not what I am seeing 17:01 VanessaE that predates your commits, I think 17:02 VanessaE I can confirm the effect he's talking about, and I'm pretty sure you did NOT break it 17:02 Megaf_ why dont we all use the same mapgen and seed and go to the same place? 17:02 Calinou oh, branch 17:02 Calinou I forgot 17:02 Zeno` on my test branch I see shading in the 45 degree angles 17:02 Megaf_ lets say seed shader, mapgen v6, spawn position 17:02 Calinou I'll test performance too 17:03 VanessaE Zeno`: go in-game and build this 8-node structure: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011212014%20-%2012%3a04%3a05%20PM.png 17:03 Calinou sorry for forgetting about branch 17:03 Calinou and in general for being angry 17:03 Calinou (but I'm extremely annoyed when people break things and don't notice it) 17:03 Zeno` so it's better now? 17:03 Calinou I'm compiling 17:03 Calinou wait 17:03 shadowzone What is that for? 17:03 VanessaE then place a block underneath and watch how the shadow changes on the tops of the two blocks at either end 17:03 Calinou your branch works 17:04 Calinou individual nodes are slightly smoothed 17:04 Zeno` ok, I will use the test branch tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback :) If someone (or you) finds something else wrong I'll just revert the changes completely. I really don't want to break stuff 17:05 Calinou now who volunteers to fix the crap light table? :P 17:06 Calinou far from extraordinary: 90-110… 17:06 VanessaE Calinou: why can't we just use the one you proposed like 6 months ago? :P 17:06 Calinou are you sure you didn't worsen performance? 17:06 Calinou VanessaE, c55 doesn't want it due to reasons like gamma and stuff like that 17:06 Zeno` actually it's crap 17:06 Zeno` I'll revert it hehe 17:06 Megaf_ VanessaE: Calinou Zeno` 17:06 Megaf_ https://cdn.mediacru.sh/z7mTIBwWcCJO.png 17:07 Megaf_ Thats on the test branch 17:07 Calinou performance is more or less the same 17:07 Calinou 140 FPS on both, same place 17:08 Zeno` night looks horrible when placing a torch 17:08 Zeno` I think it's best that I just take those changes out completely 17:08 Calinou maybe I gained 3 FPS 17:08 Calinou how does night look different? 17:08 Zeno` oh there is an increase, but if it doesn't look right it's broken 17:08 Calinou this doesn't affect the light table 17:08 Megaf_ Zeno`: isnt it fixed now? 17:08 Zeno` Megaf_, not at night apparently 17:09 Zeno` the light torches emit look diamond shaped 17:09 Zeno` I'll work on this tomorrow 17:09 Calinou [carbone torches emit light level 14 instead of 13 in minetest_game] but notice the dots, they are due to the light table, not due to your changes 17:09 Calinou uploading screenshot 17:09 Calinou this isn't due to your changes 17:10 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/5Z0astRCCwHg.png 17:10 Megaf_ Zeno`: at night https://cdn.mediacru.sh/2RUD50QVWOdL.png 17:10 Calinou you just need to tweak the light table to be smoother 17:10 Zeno` hmm 17:11 Zeno` the lights look good at ground level but I'm not sure they look very good from afar 17:11 Megaf_ hold on 17:11 Calinou this is truly a light table problem 17:12 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1362 17:12 Zeno` I'll tweak the light table to see if I can make it nicer 17:12 Calinou my table is linear, so not necessarily a good idea 17:12 Calinou personally I use the debugging-for-dark table as my screen makes stuff too dark 17:12 Calinou works great 17:12 Calinou see light.cpp for examples 17:13 Megaf_ https://cdn.mediacru.sh/Bli3kLk4W8Br.png 17:13 Megaf_ from distance 17:13 Megaf_ looks like the screenshot from Calinou 17:13 Megaf_ thats not due to your changes Zeno` 17:13 Megaf_ thats just the it is 17:13 Calinou since 0.4_20120318 17:13 Calinou so, long time ago 17:13 Calinou 0.3 had a better table overall 17:13 Zeno` the transition is too sharp 17:14 Megaf_ Calinou: whats wrong with linear light table? 17:15 Calinou it looks diamond-y from far away 17:15 Calinou it doesn't make sense 17:15 Calinou light is not linear in real life 17:15 Zeno` I don't like that diamond look 17:16 Calinou so, keep your changes, they give me 3-4 FPS 17:16 Calinou I thought it was a large improvement 17:19 Zeno` :) 17:20 Calinou I'd like a big bump, like Minecraft recently saw :( 17:21 Calinou view range 256 (equivalent to Minecraft's Far) is still a dream 17:21 Calinou (especially if you want server to send that) 17:21 Zeno` ok this is test branch and a build from a few weeks ago: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011212014%20-%2012%3a19%3a44%20PM.png 17:21 VanessaE master upstream on left, zeno's test branch on the right ^^^^^^^^^ 17:22 Zeno` so I think tomorrow I'll work on the night "diamond-y" thing tomorrow 17:22 Zeno` I think I can make that better 17:22 VanessaE as for diamond-y light, it's always looked diamond-y to me 17:22 VanessaE since, forever 17:22 Zeno` I'll still try :) 17:22 * Zeno` is paranoid now 17:23 Zeno` 3:30AM I am not going to be able to watch ALF :( 17:23 Krock Zeno`, I like the left one more 17:23 Calinou a light table change will probably need several core devs to agree 17:23 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011212014%20-%2012%3a25%3a05%20PM.png 17:23 Calinou this is big stuff 17:23 VanessaE ^^^^ upstream 17:24 Calinou how much FPS in each? 17:24 Calinou /set -n fps_max 0 17:24 Calinou to temporarily disable FPS limit 17:25 Zeno` Oh, I can show you profiles to prove it's faster now. As long as I can get it to look acceptable it's certainly faster 17:25 Calinou profile doesn't mean it is necessarily faster in practice :P 17:25 Megaf_ [17:22] as for diamond-y light, it's always looked diamond-y to me 17:25 Megaf_ I agree 17:26 Zeno` Calinou, yes, but I also look at sleep time :) 17:26 VanessaE sapier! 17:26 Megaf_ but, I mean, everyone on these games needs to be squares 17:26 Calinou drawtime is another solution 17:26 sapier hello 17:26 Calinou hi sapier, you are welcome 17:26 Megaf_ so, whats wrong with that shape? 17:26 Zeno` and my test world is the same every time (RAM database) 17:26 Zeno` So I'm not comparing apples to oranges 17:27 VanessaE Megaf_: light propagates in straight lines, so absent an obstruction, it should be spherical, not diamond. 17:27 Megaf_ That in real life, but we are in a voxel world 17:27 Calinou it is impossible for it to be really spherical 17:27 Calinou hardware lighting will fix this 17:27 Calinou it can try looking spherical using a non-linear table 17:27 VanessaE Calinou: sure, but it's possible to calculate an approximation 17:28 Calinou eg. use 85 % of each light level 17:28 sapier "VanessaE: Megaf_: light propagates in straight lines," << only exactly true in absence of gravity 17:28 VanessaE Megaf_: yeah but we have many non-voxel things like fences, torches, etc. 17:28 Calinou each lower light level uses 85 % of the previous one 17:28 Calinou or 80 % (that's what Minecraft did for a while) 17:28 VanessaE sapier: well let's assume Earth-like gravity where light effectively travels in straight lines. we're not in range of any supermassive objects here ;) 17:28 Calinou or 82 % (a middle ground) 17:29 VanessaE sapier: besides, gravity would count as an "obstruction" ;) 17:30 Zeno` light at night is brighter now but I think that may be how it used to be 17:30 sapier VanessaE: are you sure? ;-) gravity doesn't modify light but the room light travels through 17:30 VanessaE sapier: ok now you're just splitting hairs ;) 17:30 Zeno` I remember having to change all my mods to increase node brightness about 4 months ago 17:30 sapier true ;) 17:30 Zeno` sapier! 17:30 * VanessaE dives out of zeno's way 17:31 Zeno` lol 17:31 khonkhortisan and slowly doth the two great lights become one 17:31 Krock e:\programme\mt_compiler\minetest\src\util/serialize.h(25): fatal error C1017:Unknown const of a integer 17:32 Krock Current GIT is broken for MSVC 17:32 sapier OldCoder did the patch I sent you quite some time do same thing as your variant of fixing same error? 17:32 Calinou I tweak light table if I need bright stuff :P 17:32 sapier hello zeno how are you? 17:33 Megaf_ Hi sapier, how are things? Have you been busy? 17:33 Krock okay. the error seems to be a cmake fault 17:34 Megaf_ Krock: sfan5 have a problem with that commit too 17:34 sapier yes extremely busy ... ppl always want things to be ready prior christmas ... all at once 17:34 Krock Megaf_, mhm okay 17:34 Zeno` Megaf_, I don't think sfan5's issue was related because the commit before that didn't work for them either 17:34 * Krock slaps Zeno` 17:35 Megaf_ Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1858 17:35 Megaf_ Zeno`: there were several commits in a short period 17:35 Megaf_ perhaps we have to slow down a little 17:36 Zeno` and none of those commits would cause that issue 17:36 Zeno` still waiting on a bisect 17:37 VanessaE sapier: speaking of prior-to-christmas, we have an initial call for feature freeze :) 17:37 VanessaE but no one's agreed yet 17:37 Krock gonna run cmake config and compile everything from scratch 17:37 Calinou 0.4.11 was supposed to be released on November 17:37 Calinou so a feature freeze today or tomorrow makes sense 17:37 VanessaE and I guess xmas is now the target for 0.4.11 isn't it? 17:37 Calinou aim for release on late November, I say 17:37 Calinou don't wait too much 17:37 Zeno` I suggested a feature freeze a few hours ago 17:38 Zeno` anyway, sapier #1826 17:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1826 -- Fix for various Android build errors. Enable landscape rotation. by KodexKy 17:39 sapier zeno already looking at it ;-) 17:39 Zeno` hehe cool 17:39 Zeno` night all (again) 17:40 Zeno` geez, the sun is coming up 17:41 ShadowNinja I think 0.4.10 os too soon for #1409, move to 0.5? 17:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1409 -- MIDI music support 17:42 Calinou 0.5 will never be out at this pace… 17:42 Calinou this is for 0.5 anyway 17:42 Calinou and quite low-priority 17:43 Calinou low-quality OGG does wonders :P 17:43 Calinou (or support Opus? :D) 17:43 VanessaE ShadowNinja: feature freeze has been called for. 17:43 Calinou would be cool to have. 17:43 VanessaE (having MIDI or module music would be nice, but not for 0.4.11) 17:44 ShadowNinja Also: Sokomine's item move out of read-only bug, and signals API can be delayed. 17:44 ShadowNinja VanessaE: But not agreed to yet. ;-) 17:44 VanessaE ShadowNinja: agreements/disagreements are requested :) 17:45 Calinou however… prediction for node inventories? 17:45 Calinou this is urgent 17:45 Calinou gameplay suffers a lot from this 17:45 ShadowNinja Hmmm... 17:45 VanessaE the move-out-of-read-oly bug needs fixed before 0.4.11 17:45 Calinou there was a patch, which had occasional false positives but otherwise worked 17:45 VanessaE that's persisted for way too long. 17:45 VanessaE only* 17:45 ShadowNinja Calinou: No, not urgent, just annoying. 17:46 VanessaE er... when it comes to gameplay, annoying == urgent 17:46 ShadowNinja Anyway, we don't want to do that now. 17:46 VanessaE *never* annoy your users. 17:46 VanessaE but whatever 17:46 ShadowNinja VanessaE: I classify urgent as game/build-breaking. 17:48 Krock Okay, could someone help me to solve this error: "src\util/serialize.h(25): fatal error C1017: Invalid expression 17:48 Krock for integer constant" quickly? 17:49 VanessaE Krock: git reset to commit d406ac994b8092c5bd2dc32eda1a2eafbf95a30c and see if that works 17:50 Krock compiling 17:51 Krock works 17:51 Krock client.cpp compiled finw 17:51 Krock ^ VanessaE 17:52 Zeno` ok it needs to be reverted 17:52 Krock but maybe it's also a fault of cmake 17:53 Megaf_ you still here? 17:53 Megaf_ Krock: whats your CPU? 17:53 Krock Megaf_, AMD Athlon 4000+ 17:54 Megaf_ oh, ok 17:54 Zeno` what line does the error occur on? 17:54 Krock "CMAKE_HAVE_ENDIAN_H:BOOL=OFF" is in CMakeCache.txt 17:54 Krock rror: "src\util/serialize.h(25): fatal error C1017: Invalid expression 17:54 ShadowNinja Zeno`: The android patch seems fine BTW. 17:54 Megaf_ Krock: if change that to ON? 17:55 ShadowNinja It's not optimal, but it's better than before. 17:56 Krock same error, Megaf_ 17:56 Zeno` change line 25 to #ifdef HAVE_ENDIAN_H and see what happens? 17:57 Krock :\programme\mt_compiler\minetest\src\util/serialize.h(26): fatal error C1083: Datei (Include) kann 17:57 Krock nicht geöffnet werden: "endian.h": No such file or directory [E:\Programme\MT_compiler\bin\src\min 17:57 Krock edian not found 17:57 Krock need to set to false now 17:58 Krock okay. 17:58 Krock that thing is defined but it keeps throwing errors 17:58 Krock (same as latest posted error) 18:00 Megaf_ Zeno`: I'm afraid that commit only works on Linux 18:00 Megaf_ does windows have this .h files? 18:00 Megaf_ these* 18:00 Krock removing those https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f7d65091f83abe1cb1a70d6823291df8accbe6ab#diff-ebab3775208ceccb934d0d29f384a367R77 both lines helped 18:01 Krock I also added an "#ifndef HAVE_ENDIAN_H 0 #define HAVE_ENDIAN_H 0 #endif" on top 18:01 Zeno` did you remove line 39 as well? 18:02 Krock I added an #ifndef around it 18:02 Zeno` might be able to remove it. Check with ShadowNinja :) 18:02 Zeno` I'm asleep :) 18:02 Krock ok gn. 18:03 Megaf_ Zeno`: is it for real now? 18:04 Megaf_ :) 18:04 gravgun Too shy of answering :3 18:07 RealBadAngel i just got new keyboard, damn it looks nice: http://a4tech.com/images/products/Accessary/KD-800L_410X220.jpg 18:07 RealBadAngel irl it looks even better :) 18:48 Megaf_ Calinou: Here we can see your issue with smooth light very clearly https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/6201512/5147471/bceea874-71ad-11e4-9c94-418cede76284.png 18:50 Megaf_ RealBadAngel: is the sun a light source? 18:50 Megaf_ I mean, does the light actually comes from the sun on minetest? I don't think it does 18:51 Calinou sun is a light source, emits a reserved light level (15) 18:51 Megaf_ it looks like there is a gigantig torch always at 0 degrees 18:51 Megaf_ shadows dont move 18:51 Calinou on the two screenshots, why don't the trees generate at the same place? 18:51 Calinou worlds should always generate the same way with the same seed… 18:51 Calinou all light is fake… 18:52 Megaf_ Calinou: no idea, I was asking myself the same thing 18:52 Megaf_ I compiled both exatectly the same way, same world name, same seed 18:53 Megaf_ they are 8 commits appart 18:54 RealBadAngel Megaf_, shaders are using sun for calculations 18:54 RealBadAngel atm it is located always 100 nodes above the player 18:55 RealBadAngel temporary solution, it just waits for real sun in game 18:56 RealBadAngel the moment we will switch to irrlicht lighting, shaders will use them with almost no changes at all 19:00 Megaf_ Im thinking about redoing this and sending a pull request, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/844/files 19:00 Megaf_ anyone agrees with that? 19:01 RealBadAngel partially i do 19:01 RealBadAngel the setting is needed but i think that we need new menu design 19:02 RealBadAngel simply theres no place for more settings 19:04 RealBadAngel and we shall redo them the way c55 proposed: simple menu with single/multi/settings/whatever and then open right formspecs, designed for tasks 19:04 Calinou I agree ^ 19:04 Calinou also, move credits to a text file? 19:04 Calinou (to save up one tab) 19:05 RealBadAngel i see it as 4-5 lines navigated by up/down/enter (or mouse) 19:05 RealBadAngel the main menu ofc 19:05 RealBadAngel credits can be put there too 19:06 RealBadAngel with such layout you can make the memu nice, with big fonts 19:06 Megaf_ and some commit have actually messes with field of view 19:06 Calinou we could have a quit button too, for fullscreen players 19:06 Megaf_ I get distortions now 19:06 Calinou in the main-menu 19:07 RealBadAngel i asked google for "main menu layout" 19:07 RealBadAngel http://media.moddb.com/images/games/1/16/15864/UI_menu_mainMenu_guide.png 19:08 RealBadAngel i was thinking about something like that 19:08 Calinou that is mediocre 19:08 Calinou this isn't an action game by the way :P 19:08 RealBadAngel ofc not, but main menu style 19:09 RealBadAngel or rather funcionality. simple. just select what you need\ 19:10 RealBadAngel tabs are functional but looks like from 20 yrs ago 19:11 RealBadAngel and are overloaded with settings 19:11 RealBadAngel this doesnt look either nice nor friendly 19:12 RealBadAngel also the menu is unusable on android devices 19:13 RealBadAngel looks like shit and works the same way :( 19:13 Calinou too many outlines, borders is the problem 19:13 Calinou flat design is the new cool thing ;) 19:13 Calinou having a lot of settings is fine, if they are well-organized 19:14 Calinou (and don't add settings that don't change much/anything) 19:15 Megaf_ maybe a simple single window thing, in portrait would be ideal 19:15 Megaf_ a scrolling window 19:15 Megaf_ divided in areas 19:26 kilbith what about a HTML/CSS mainmenu ? 19:26 kilbith (idea from ShadowNinja) 19:29 kaeza and JS for modding! 19:30 rubenwardy I would love HTML and CSS instead of formspecs 19:30 rubenwardy Not full HTML and CSS, but inspired by it 19:30 rubenwardy very similar elements but a few custom ones 19:30 VanessaE kaeza, rubenwardy: channeling lamefun? ;) 19:33 Megaf_ where does form spec comes from? Is it something from Lua? 19:34 Calinou libRocket makes it possible to do that, kilbith 19:34 Calinou the CPU usage is high though 19:34 Calinou both in Warsow and Unvanquished… 19:34 Calinou which implement it (quite well) 19:34 Calinou the Unvanquished HUD is libRocket ;) 19:34 kilbith but that ought very flexible 19:34 ShadowNinja HTML is big, but it implements just about every feature you could want. 19:34 Calinou Megaf_, yes, and the C++ code 19:34 Calinou http://librocket.com/ 19:34 rubenwardy HTML and Django style templates. Will probably be quite large. 19:35 PenguinDad libRocket causes really high cpu usage at high framerates for me 19:36 kaeza what I'd like instead of HTML is some kind of packing/layout manager 19:38 jin_xi kaeza: its ok for generated gui but hard to get to look right in a game i think 19:38 Calinou using something like Tesseract or Sauerbraten's UI? 19:38 Calinou http://tesseract.gg/ look at menu code on SVN web view 19:59 Krock I think gsmapper needs a rewrite which only updates the complete minimap every 2 seconds 20:00 PenguinDad and changes the license 20:00 Krock I don't get th logic of the current draw-style 20:03 Calinou every 5 seconds is probably enough, or even 10 20:03 Calinou I'd like a round/rotatable map, so it'd have to be entirely redone 20:03 Calinou à la Rei's minimap 20:03 kaeza PenguinDad++ 20:10 paramat concerning feature-freeze, hmmmm usually organises that. personally i would like at least 2 weeks before freeze to finish mgv5 default biomes (with new default snow biomes and pines) 20:15 paramat sfan5 please could you consider https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336 ? see last comment i would like to use the pines from mg, is that okay? but i need 336 merged very soon to give me the nodes to make the pine schematic 20:16 sfan5 paramat: why a schmatic? 20:16 sfan5 the pines in mg are generated using randomness 20:17 sfan5 s/randomness/lua/ 20:17 paramat yep i know 20:17 sfan5 (note to self: think before you type 20:17 sfan5 ) 20:17 paramat because mgv5 uses the biome API and schematics for trees 20:17 paramat although i would prefer to grow them by random code 20:20 paramat so yeah i need to make tree schems for appletree and jungletree too 20:21 paramat although the lua sapling-growing code in default will alow me to generate sapling pines exactly as in mg 20:22 Krock This solved the compiling bugs where HAVE_ENDIAN_H was not defined as an constant integer http://pastebin.com/5gewXYjK 20:22 Krock actually, it just turns off the feature in the source codes 20:23 paramat i feel a release for winter solstice (21st Dec) is good and realistic, people wil be busy the few days before xmas 20:23 paramat *will 20:24 PenguinDad Krock: you shouldn't solve bugs by simply disabling the feature 20:25 paramat a lot seems broken so an immediate feature freeze seems too soon 20:29 paramat ive waited 2 weeks for Blockmen's input on MTG336, perhaps he's busy or a taking a break from MT, so i need Nore and sfan5 to merge 336 20:39 Krock PenguinDad, I know 20:42 Megaf_ And I have just messed up my pull request 20:42 Megaf_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1854 20:46 * Megaf_ gives up 20:47 Krock Megaf_, it's so easy with tortoise git :P 20:47 Megaf_ I just wanted to merge to minetest master... 20:48 Megaf_ then I squashed everything to a single commit 20:48 Megaf_ and fucked up things =/ 20:48 Megaf_ and besides that, no one wants my pull request anyway... 20:49 Krock exactly 21:03 OldCoder sapier, your patch is incomplete 21:04 OldCoder sapier, please PM me your email address. The address I was given was apparently incorrect. 21:04 OldCoder sapier, I have a new combined patch that fixes the problem entirely. PM me email address and I will send it. 21:04 OldCoder I am away today; traveling to Silicon Valley o/ 21:04 OldCoder 21:05 OldCoder If somebody else sees this, please PM me his email address, the patch is important 21:20 RealBadAngel paramat, if you want random trees, use l-system ones, not schematics 21:22 RealBadAngel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system 21:23 RealBadAngel you got the most powerful tool to model the plants and you still want schematics. thats a bit weird, do you realize that? 21:24 kilbith take a look into MoreTrees, though 21:24 RealBadAngel those are just examples 21:24 RealBadAngel imagine what l-systems could do with micro blocks 21:26 paramat RBA try to convince hmmmm instead =) im just following orders 21:27 RealBadAngel best way to convince here is to show working code 21:27 RealBadAngel and a beautiful landscape 21:27 VanessaE "I was just following orders!" is never an excuse, paramat ;) 21:28 paramat heh agreed VE 21:28 RealBadAngel lol indeed 21:29 RealBadAngel paramat, i wish i could see mountains high, big trees and world proportional 21:29 RealBadAngel and nice shaped 21:29 paramat i guess schems are faster and that's the most important thing 21:30 RealBadAngel schems are for villages and the like 21:30 paramat my mapgens can be scaled up to unlimited sizes 21:30 RealBadAngel not for the flora for christ sake 21:30 paramat trees need to be proportional to the terrain, i find moretrees too big for mgv6 21:30 RealBadAngel make proper landscape then 21:31 paramat indeed (watershed) 21:31 RealBadAngel atm we do have human beings nearly same sized as trees 21:31 RealBadAngel do you think thats realistic? 21:31 VanessaE well to be fair, 21:31 VanessaE the default trees are more like 2-3x the height of a human in the game 21:31 VanessaE and in the real world, there are many kinds of trees that are that height. 21:32 VanessaE *looks out the window* 21:32 paramat mgv5 is small scaled too, needs small trees, also to avoid getting chopped during mapgen trees need to be <16 nodes high 21:32 VanessaE I see a few of them right here in the yard around me 21:32 RealBadAngel oh cmon 21:33 VanessaE so in the case of moretrees, the terrain just needs to scale up to match 21:33 VanessaE the trees aren't too big - the terrain is too flat. 21:33 RealBadAngel http://www.visitsequoia.com/img/3_1_1_The_Giant_Forest.jpg 21:33 VanessaE RealBadAngel: exactly. 21:34 RealBadAngel http://www.cel-mai.ro/imagini/sequoia-m/sequoia.JPG 21:34 paramat well i hope to add a large scaled mapgen, so you can use that 21:34 RealBadAngel exactly, large scaled one 21:35 RealBadAngel with big lakes, trees, mountains and all that stuff 21:35 RealBadAngel not just funny puddles with some bonsai 21:35 VanessaE wouldn't it be simpler to offer an mgv6 option with large-scaled map_meta.txt defaults? 21:36 VanessaE (or mgv7, either way) 21:37 paramat i'll tr to fix the mgv6/mgv7 discontinuities at y = 47 etc so you can do that 21:37 paramat ^ now fixed in mgv5 21:39 RealBadAngel paramat, have you saw terasology landscape with those trees? 21:41 paramat yes and investigated their mapgen 21:41 VanessaE paramat: there may be another issue. Isn't mgv6 supposed to be continuous all the way back to pretty much near the beginning of the 0.4.x series when it was introduced? 21:41 VanessaE I mean, how the default settings are interpreted that is 21:41 RealBadAngel http://blog.movingblocks.net/wp-content/uploads/Terasology-130707004254-3840x2160-1800827_960x332.jpg 21:41 paramat you mean not breaking old worlds? 21:42 RealBadAngel please keep in mind one thing: single l-system tree will be slower than a bonsai or schematic one 21:42 paramat i can make terrain like that, already have 21:42 VanessaE paramat: yeah, more or less - I mean like bring in an old world, load it, go generate some new terrain and it just blends right in with the old terrain, without mapblock edges 21:42 VanessaE assuming the same seed as before 21:42 RealBadAngel but you dont need so much of big trees 21:43 RealBadAngel a few around are better than 100 hundred of small ones 21:43 paramat yes i will have to make sure old world's don't break 21:43 RealBadAngel and then you can start to think if a few could be done faster than 100 21:44 VanessaE paramat: I ask because I'm talking with OldCoder elsewhere about it. unless an error was made in importing the old world data or the settings thereof, it seems that this is no longer the case. 21:44 paramat l systems is something i need to play with and time etc 21:44 VanessaE paramat: you are aware of the efforts to bring Redcrab's server up-to-date (with the result being called Silvercrab), yes? 21:45 paramat Vanessa, old worlds being broken is bad news, please link me to the discussion 21:45 paramat ehm sort of 21:45 RealBadAngel paramat, in the future i do plan (after current work is done) to extend, or rather shrunk l-systems 21:46 RealBadAngel and let it generate grass, bushes etc 21:46 OldCoder VanessaE, I must leave but I will put up the world that resulted; this will explain what I mean 21:46 OldCoder o/ 21:46 VanessaE paramat: can't link to it (#minetest-staff, so it's not publicly-logged) but the short version is that efforts to recover the map have been successful, but efforts to ensure that the map blends seamlessly into modern iterations of mgv6 result in "chaos" which I take it means blocks being....rather poorly matched. OldCoder will have to fill you in on the rest. 21:47 OldCoder I mean, I will put the resulting world online soon for your review 21:47 OldCoder Probably tonight or tomorrow 21:47 OldCoder VanessaE, paramat ^ 21:48 VanessaE OldCoder: one quick question: are you dead certain that the spawn building is exactly in the same place in the map as it was in the original world, and that the seed I gave you was correctly transcribed? 21:52 VanessaE in fact I'll just check the former myself :) 21:53 VanessaE yep, it's correct. 21:54 paramat okay, how old is the redcrab world? perhaps it was started before hmmmmm decided to keep mgv6 consistent 21:55 OldCoder paramat, VanessaE I will boot Chaos World tonight or tomorrow for review 21:56 paramat personally i prefer coded trees (as in mgv6) to schems or l-systems, because they can have any generation method, therefore more character 21:56 paramat oldcoder okay 21:57 VanessaE OldCoder: --> msg 22:11 Sokomine RealBadAngel: hmmm seems to see the usage of schems for villages as almost abusive. afaik he intended it to be used for trees, special hills, stalagmites/stalagtites and the like 22:13 Sokomine VanessaE: with large trees, it's important to be able to sustain a sufficiently high view range so that the trees can be seen 22:14 paramat to be clear schems do have randomness, but this is set per node 22:15 Sokomine RealBadAngel: small trees are better for gameplay. a 5-nodes-high tree trunk may in most cases be cut down by a lazy player. higher trees - they get cut up partly by players 22:17 paramat Sokomine i'm very happy you managed to get 'force place' added to schems, essential for my own (ab)use of schems for generative architecture etc 22:18 paramat to be artistic or creative abuse (non-standard use) is essential =) 22:18 Sokomine i'm not sure if anyone has ever actually used randomness for schematics so far? 22:19 Sokomine paramat: yes :-) that force parameter kind of saved the ethereal mod/mapgen and the xanandu server. else they would have had no real option to re-grow their trees (they're all schematics) 22:27 Fritigern Sokomine: Any chance that the markers mod will get updated any time soon? 23:27 Sokomine it would be really great if commit 4896d4b where optional and could be disabled so that players can again place nodes where they stand. this is very important for any people who use the game for building (some do!). i regulary fix that in my local version 23:28 PenguinDad Sokomine: what's so bad about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/4896d4b? 23:32 VanessaE I think she means 1b4908b :) 23:32 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/85 23:35 paramat what was the argument against an option for this? can it be done in creative? i guess you want it in non-creative mode too 23:36 paramat placing signlike drawtypes where you stand seems allowable 23:37 PenguinDad Just removing the client.checkPrivilege("noclip") would be an acceptable solution imo 23:38 paramat i consider it important to keep sokomine happy =D 23:41 paramat i'd code it myself if i knew how, hope it happens 23:44 DFeniks i probably shouldnt talk about this because i know nothing about it. but maybe player coordinates can be used to see if he is inside cube , not radius or something ? 23:45 DFeniks because cubes are not round 23:45 PenguinDad DFeniks: that wouldn't change anything 23:46 DFeniks well, you know better