| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:39 |
|
exio4 joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:59 |
hmmmm |
god dammit Zeno- |
| 01:59 |
hmmmm |
I explicitly disapproved of 874109c520 |
| 02:00 |
hmmmm |
it's like everybody wants their feature !!!now!!! and so they do it themselves and they do it wrong |
| 02:25 |
|
exio4 joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:28 |
kaeza |
the alternative is waiting half a year (or more) to get something in |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
maybe we should bring an Agile workflow into development |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
we'll have a sprint of, let's say a month, and the active developers get assigned issues to work on |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
so everybody knows what's being worked on and when |
| 02:33 |
hmmmm |
well, I was going to work on improvements to schematics, but now it seems i'm going to have to push the new noiseparams up in priority |
| 02:46 |
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| 02:52 |
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| 02:53 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm |
| 02:54 |
Zeno` |
<hmmmm> I explicitly disapproved of 874109c520 |
| 02:55 |
Zeno` |
I actually spoke to celeron55 about that before committing to confirm what I was allowed to do |
| 02:55 |
Zeno` |
I.e. protocol |
| 02:58 |
Zeno` |
I think if it was specifically disapproved it should have been mentioned in the comments. I doubt many of us are successful mind readers :) |
| 02:59 |
hmmmm |
i thought you saw it when i spoke about it |
| 02:59 |
Zeno` |
nope |
| 03:00 |
Zeno` |
if I had I woulnd't have merged :/ |
| 03:01 |
hmmmm |
well whatever, just don't tell people to use it i guess |
| 03:01 |
hmmmm |
for now |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
i would fix it right now but i'm working on like work work for my day job |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
that i didn't get a chance to do during the daytime because shit happened IRL today |
| 03:03 |
Zeno` |
:) |
| 03:06 |
* Zeno` |
gives hmmmm some Nutella so he feels better and has more energy to fix the RL shit |
| 03:29 |
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| 04:53 |
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| 05:02 |
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| 05:05 |
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| 05:08 |
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| 05:16 |
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| 05:31 |
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| 06:42 |
hmmmm |
hey guys, what do you think about sections in the config file |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
i.e. |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
instead of keymap_forward and keymap_backward, it's keymap.forward and keymap.backward |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
Settings *keymaps = g_settings->getSection("keymap"); int backward = keymaps->getInt("backward"); |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
now i'm not proposing JSON |
| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
just breaking things down into objects |
| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
someone was talking about this a few weeks ago |
| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
well, maybe a month ago |
| 06:46 |
hmmmm |
i want this because the getStruct thing sucks |
| 06:47 |
|
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| 06:47 |
VanessaE |
save that change for 0.5.x |
| 06:47 |
VanessaE |
that'll break literally every server config out there. |
| 06:47 |
hmmmm |
obviously there are intelligent ways to not break compatibility |
| 06:48 |
hmmmm |
you can probably see where this is going |
| 06:48 |
VanessaE |
I can, generally. |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
mapgen.v6.noise.terrain.scale = 50 |
| 06:49 |
VanessaE |
but how long would such compatibility code be maintained before someone decides it's obsolete? |
| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
so i'm not saying i want json configs but |
| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
i want json configs |
| 06:51 |
Zeno` |
I'm not saying I don't understand |
| 06:51 |
Zeno` |
but I don't understand |
| 06:52 |
Zeno` |
So I can't say much :) |
| 06:52 |
Zeno` |
I can't say I like JSON very much though |
| 06:52 |
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| 06:54 |
Zeno` |
is there JSON parsing in the engine? |
| 06:54 |
hmmmm |
there is |
| 06:54 |
diemartin |
hmmmm, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-09-26#i_3945936 |
| 06:55 |
diemartin |
(related) |
| 06:55 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 06:55 |
Zeno` |
ahh I knew someone was talking about it about a month ago heh |
| 06:55 |
hmmmm |
I don't bring this up randomly though |
| 06:55 |
hmmmm |
it's because I want to add boolean options to NoiseParams |
| 06:56 |
hmmmm |
the current struct setting type is not that flexible and is positionally based, right |
| 06:57 |
hmmmm |
but it was the most compact way i could fit it without flooding the global settings namespace with 50000 different settings |
| 06:57 |
hmmmm |
for a single mapgen's noise descriptions |
| 06:57 |
hmmmm |
proller's solution of making the setting's text serialized json is completely boneheaded and terrible in many ways |
| 06:58 |
hmmmm |
but making the entire config file a big json entry isn't bad at all because it's readable and can span multiple lines |
| 07:08 |
Zeno` |
50000 settings? |
| 07:09 |
hmmmm |
obviously an exaggeration. but per noiseparams there are 8 parameters, and per mapgen there are like 10 noiseparams, so a lot |
| 07:10 |
Zeno` |
maybe mapgen stuff should be in a different file then |
| 07:10 |
hmmmm |
there's a lot of stuff that could and should be done |
| 07:10 |
hmmmm |
and i'm going to be the one to actually do it |
| 07:11 |
Zeno` |
what do you mean? |
| 07:12 |
hmmmm |
config file include directives, multi-line entries, heirarchical settings, etc. |
| 07:12 |
hmmmm |
yet settings hasn't functionally been touched since it was implemented |
| 07:13 |
Zeno` |
sounds like a big job |
| 07:14 |
Zeno` |
What' |
| 07:14 |
Zeno` |
What's the main concern with have a second config file for mapgen (beyond simple params) |
| 07:15 |
hmmmm |
nothing, i want to do that |
| 07:15 |
Zeno` |
oh, sorry I misunderstood |
| 07:15 |
hmmmm |
it's just that when i do things, i do them right |
| 07:16 |
hmmmm |
once i get the config file improvements done, i'll be able to organize noiseparams in settings the right way |
| 07:16 |
hmmmm |
once i can specify whichever flags or noise type in settings, i can add new noiseparams options |
| 07:16 |
hmmmm |
once i specify noiseparams options and types, you'd be able to add eased (or remove) eased noise anywhere |
| 07:16 |
hmmmm |
in addition to absolute value noise, contour noise, etc. |
| 07:17 |
Zeno` |
can the current .conf file be made to transparently (backwards compatible) have an include directive? |
| 07:17 |
hmmmm |
of course |
| 07:17 |
hmmmm |
i'll take baby steps. that'll be the first thing to do |
| 07:18 |
Zeno` |
Well, I think if the main .conf file remains essentially the same and the other things are progressively added then people might be happier. What are the main advantages you're aiming for? Performance or better maintainability/readability/flexibility of config files? |
| 07:20 |
hmmmm |
latter |
| 07:22 |
Zeno` |
I'm sitting on the fence. If it's done with backwards compatibility and introduced slowly then I don't have a strong opinion against it. |
| 07:23 |
Zeno` |
I do like hierarchical data |
| 07:23 |
hmmmm |
how about i just do it instead of talking about it and you'll see it's nice |
| 07:25 |
Zeno` |
Well, I think people will be able to make a decision more easily with something to actually look at rather than hypotheticals |
| 07:31 |
Zeno` |
I still think JSON is overkill for something that's only read at startup |
| 07:31 |
|
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| 07:32 |
Zeno` |
I dunno... but I don't spend a lot of time looking at my config files hehe |
| 07:36 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm, did you have any luck with that segfault (double free) on shutdown? |
| 07:36 |
hmmmm |
nope |
| 07:37 |
Zeno` |
I tried for a while but couldn't find it :/ |
| 07:38 |
RealBadAngel |
it happened to me once when exiting to main menu (so not only on shutdown) |
| 07:42 |
Zeno` |
yeah, singleplayer game shuts down the singleplayer server when returning to the launch menu |
| 07:43 |
Zeno` |
I even stepped through the destruction sequence |
| 07:43 |
Zeno` |
but it's (apparently) free'd before it even gets there |
| 07:46 |
Zeno` |
happens to me every run |
| 07:47 |
Zeno` |
launch single player --> exit game or exit to main menu --? minetest': free(): invalid pointer: ..... |
| 07:54 |
|
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| 07:56 |
Zeno` |
any objections to me merging #1833? |
| 07:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1833 -- Remove most exceptions from getNode() (and variants) by Zeno- |
| 07:56 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 07:57 |
Zeno` |
Ok, thanks |
| 07:57 |
VanessaE |
zeno, about that.. |
| 07:57 |
Zeno` |
yep? |
| 07:58 |
VanessaE |
no objections, but I had Sokomine try it out and she saw no improvement at all. |
| 07:58 |
VanessaE |
any comment why that might be? |
| 07:58 |
VanessaE |
she didn't report any regressions, just no measurable improvement for some reason |
| 07:58 |
Zeno` |
if she was already getting her FPS cap there would be no difference apart from less CPU usage. Could that be it? |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
nope, definitely not at any fps cap - she was only pulling a max of 11 fps in her test |
| 07:59 |
Zeno` |
11 fps on VE-S? |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
yeah, at the spawn |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
the standard acid test :) |
| 07:59 |
hmmmm |
"my friend Carol doesn't think that's a very bright shade of red. any comment why that might be?" |
| 07:59 |
Zeno` |
heh, other things might be involved :) |
| 08:00 |
Zeno` |
perhaps setNode() is now a bottleneck... I intend to look at that after this is commited |
| 08:01 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: Sokomine is quite adept at spotting problems and zeno writes good code. a more apt analogy might be "I had my mechanic friend put your super fuel formula in but her car power and economy didn't change any." |
| 08:02 |
hmmmm |
your perception sucks |
| 08:02 |
VanessaE |
so does your attitude. :P |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
the speed difference between checking a return value vs. handling a blown exception is very large |
| 08:03 |
VanessaE |
you clearly missed the part earlier where I said zeno's code actually worked rather well for ME. |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
it's measurable |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
maybe you can't *feel* it, but it's there |
| 08:03 |
hmmmm |
don't worry, it's an improvement. some person's feelings aren't going to get in the way of a good commit |
| 08:04 |
VanessaE |
*facepalm* damn it hmmmm prefix your statements so we can see who you're talking to. |
| 08:10 |
Zeno` |
the performance increase, though, should be enough to visibly see |
| 08:11 |
Zeno` |
I tend to trust Sokomine's observations as well |
| 08:11 |
Zeno` |
But I don't have an explanation atm |
| 08:59 |
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| 09:12 |
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| 09:20 |
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| 09:39 |
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| 09:45 |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:08 |
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| 10:41 |
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| 10:42 |
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| 11:23 |
Zeno` |
RealBadAngel, is there any way that you can think of that the impact of getSmoothLight() can be reduced? |
| 11:24 |
Zeno` |
i.e. performance increased |
| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
the family of functions are pretty expensive (relatively speaking) |
| 12:07 |
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| 13:22 |
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| 14:08 |
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| 14:08 |
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| 14:40 |
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| 14:49 |
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| 15:01 |
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| 15:01 |
Zeno` |
hi hmmmm |
| 15:02 |
Zeno` |
this double free really needs to be fixed :/ |
| 15:02 |
hmmmm |
i agree... any ideas? |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
nope... I just spent another hour and cannot work it out |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
is there a tool that will show where the previous delete occurred? |
| 15:03 |
celeron55 |
valgrind memcheck doesn't do that? |
| 15:04 |
celeron55 |
i'm pretty sure it does |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, doesn't seem to. I've asked in #valgrind (about 45 minutes ago) but no response yet |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
well if it does it should be easy |
| 15:04 |
hmmmm |
well, just fyi there's no other place where ores are deleted aside from in register_ore, in which case it's not even added to OreManager, and then in OreManager's dtor |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
yeah I see that hmmmm, which is why it's so frustrating |
| 15:05 |
celeron55 |
Zeno`: maybe --track-origins=yes or something |
| 15:07 |
Zeno` |
maybe. I'll run it again |
| 15:07 |
Zeno` |
building |
| 15:12 |
Zeno` |
no more info than last valgrind session |
| 15:12 |
Zeno` |
pasting |
| 15:13 |
Zeno` |
http://pastebin.com/aZSr1MJC |
| 15:14 |
Zeno` |
very frustrating hehehe |
| 15:15 |
hmmmm |
maybe it would be helpful if you added a print statement to the Ore dtor and compared with addresses in OreManager::create() |
| 15:17 |
Zeno` |
I've stepped through it. I've even looked for pointer aliases |
| 15:19 |
Zeno` |
maybe I'm just tired |
| 15:19 |
Zeno` |
I'll try again tomorrow |
| 15:19 |
* Zeno` |
signs off for the day :) |
| 15:58 |
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| 16:08 |
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| 16:11 |
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| 16:25 |
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| 16:32 |
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| 16:54 |
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| 17:06 |
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| 17:42 |
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| 17:56 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: What about a Lua config? You'd just have to add quotes around string settings, you'd get includes through dofile, and it's very flexible. Lua was originally designed to be a configuration file parser after all. |
| 17:57 |
ShadowNinja |
You'd have to convert it to a C++ structure though for speed. |
| 17:57 |
ShadowNinja |
Unless Lua's fast enough -- which it might be. |
| 17:58 |
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| 18:53 |
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| 18:56 |
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| 19:22 |
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| 19:32 |
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| 19:34 |
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| 19:35 |
Calinou |
wieldhand is always fully bright, even in dark areas… |
| 19:36 |
Calinou |
*** Error in `./minetest': free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000002062648 *** |
| 19:36 |
Calinou |
crash on qui |
| 19:36 |
Calinou |
quit* |
| 19:37 |
VanessaE |
already been reported. |
| 19:37 |
VanessaE |
blame hmmmm apparently :P |
| 19:41 |
hmmmm |
ShadowNinja, this way is reverse compatible with old config files |
| 19:41 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, here? |
| 19:42 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, i figured that out too, will fix it tommorow |
| 19:45 |
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| 20:00 |
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| 20:05 |
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| 20:10 |
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| 20:19 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: you should consider libraries for that though; like https://github.com/vstakhov/libucl |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
that for example may or may not be basically a more fleshed out implementation of what you would do |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
and you could then focus on making something actually new |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, do you have anythin against adding mumble support? |
| 20:48 |
celeron55 |
no if it's optional at buildtime and runtime |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
(external audio chat, positioned by game) |
| 20:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i would like to see it as option in menu |
| 20:49 |
RealBadAngel |
so runtime one |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
code is not expensive |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
and its universal |
| 20:52 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHMjBPUmGZk |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
well if it doesn' |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
t depend on external libraries, then it doesn't need to be optional at build time |
| 20:54 |
celeron55 |
(i think this is quite obvious) |
| 20:54 |
RealBadAngel |
code i saw is quite simple |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
needs to export just position of the players |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
in mp env it will work quite nice imho |
| 20:57 |
RealBadAngel |
havent checked it for myself yet, but could saw it implemented in many projects with the same example code |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:08 |
MinetestForFun |
re |
| 21:17 |
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| 21:17 |
RealBadAngel |
yes? |
| 23:01 |
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| 23:32 |
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| 23:34 |
hmmmm |
celeron55, that's exactly what I want to do actually, minus the distinction between sections and objects |
| 23:34 |
hmmmm |
the problem is that i don't want an additional dependency for something so trivial |
| 23:37 |
celeron55 |
well, that one could certainly be bundled in the source |
| 23:37 |
hmmmm |
ehh... |
| 23:37 |
hmmmm |
i can code the same thing without all the overcomplicated, unnecessary bits in 30 minutes |
| 23:37 |
celeron55 |
okay, time starts now |
| 23:37 |
proller |
lol |
| 23:42 |
celeron55 |
i do think that C APIs for stuff like that tend to be tedious to use; for that reason a pure C++ one could be inherently better |
| 23:42 |
celeron55 |
(if it's properly designed to not require manual memory management) |
| 23:43 |
hmmmm |
that library you pasted probably isn't thread-safe either |
| 23:44 |
proller |
hmmmm, you even cant fix segfault in 2 days |
| 23:45 |
hmmmm |
can we get some ops in this channel? |
| 23:45 |
proller |
and they can fix ? |
| 23:46 |
exio4 |
proller: minetest's code is in the github repository, tell us where the problem is and how to fix it |
| 23:47 |
proller |
why i should fix others shitcode ? |
| 23:47 |
hmmmm |
he hasn't fixed anything at all |
| 23:48 |
hmmmm |
ugh |
| 23:48 |
proller |
lol (v2) |
| 23:48 |
hmmmm |
it really pains me that a beligerant asshole like proller is able to reap the benefits of minetest development |
| 23:48 |
hmmmm |
we should have a vote on modifying the license to a custom version of LGPL that specifically excludes proller from using it |
| 23:49 |
celeron55 |
hmm i think this works on freenode |
| 23:49 |
hmmmm |
christ |
| 23:49 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commits/master |
| 23:50 |
hmmmm |
i haven't counted exactly, but i'm pretty sure 75% of the commits there are fixes for his own fuckups |
| 23:51 |
hmmmm |
a friend of mine I know IRL tried out freeminer after he found it on google as a supposedly "better minetest with more features" |
| 23:51 |
hmmmm |
he told me it sucked much more and kept crashing every 5 minutes |
| 23:51 |
Megaf |
freeminer is not better |
| 23:51 |
Megaf |
but it has some cool pull requests that minetest doesnt |
| 23:52 |
Megaf |
and proller have actually deactivated some crashs, |
| 23:52 |
Megaf |
I mean, some stuff that minetest thing is critical error freeminer doesnt, so it wont crash |
| 23:53 |
Megaf |
and one good thing about freeminer is the hability to use leveldb for the rollback file |
| 23:53 |
PenguinDad |
Megaf: what errors are you talking about in specific? |
| 23:53 |
Megaf |
anyway, I still prefer Minetest |
| 23:53 |
Megaf |
PenguinDad: I beleive some mod errors about nil value |
| 23:56 |
celeron55 |
maybe this isn't #-dev stuff, but i'm not on #minetest so if someone is interested about a random podcast that compares voxelands/minetest-classic with minetest, start at 1:06:40 here: http://unseenstudio.co.uk/tuxjam-ogg/tuxjam-34/ |
| 23:57 |
celeron55 |
it's slightly interesting altough they're not putting exactly a whole lot of thought into it |
