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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-11-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 RealBadAngel depending on what i do have in hand meshnode rotating on the ground (totally different one) takes its texture
00:00 VanessaE haha
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00:01 RealBadAngel kahrl, im afraid you have messed something totally here, theres no other explanation :)
00:01 kahrl well it is your code right now ;P
00:01 VanessaE kahrl: there IS something you didn't account for btw: hidden face detection in your meshes.
00:01 RealBadAngel just set item
00:01 RealBadAngel all other is not modified
00:01 VanessaE I wonder if you'll want to revisit that sooner or later
00:02 kahrl VanessaE: what do you mean by that?
00:02 RealBadAngel and i can see item on the ground changing textures (but not the model)
00:02 VanessaE kahrl: drop a fence and then get up *really* close to it so that the camera clips into it.  you can see tons of faces that should not be there.
00:02 RealBadAngel that can be related to materials
00:02 kahrl ah
00:03 kahrl well I can't really fix that without computing a mesh for every item again
00:03 RealBadAngel and explain why i had before different materials than i should
00:03 VanessaE yeah, I expected as much
00:03 RealBadAngel not the mesh, mesh is intact
00:03 RealBadAngel materials are fucked up
00:03 kahrl RealBadAngel: what do you change exactly?"
00:03 kahrl -"
00:03 kahrl how do you set the materials?
00:03 VanessaE kahrl: I guess in that case it's enough to let the GPU handle it.
00:04 kahrl VanessaE: I hope it doesn't become a problem when there's a ton of items on the ground
00:04 RealBadAngel you were setting materials only in extrusion code or in case of meshnodes
00:05 RealBadAngel so i had unset materials (so black background or some random color) material type not set
00:05 RealBadAngel so other players reported
00:06 RealBadAngel the code somehow for us had no effect because something got it overriden
00:06 RealBadAngel with filtering enabled and emtsolid propably
00:06 kahrl well if you change the materials of the mesh directly instead of on the meshnode, then no wonder it'll get replicated to other meshnodes with the same mesh
00:06 RealBadAngel now i can see that changes in another instance of wielded can cause changes to one already used (on the ground, floatin as an item)
00:07 kahrl just change changeToMesh so it clones the mesh whenever you need to modify its materials directly
00:07 RealBadAngel theres propably some sharing issue, things get common for all the instances of wieldmesh
00:08 kahrl I tried to figure out the least amount of cloning needed so everything worked
00:08 kahrl which obviously worked for me but not for everyone
00:08 RealBadAngel hold on a sec
00:08 kahrl what irrlicht version are you using btw?
00:09 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/WB2Urthc
00:09 RealBadAngel 1.7.something
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00:10 VanessaE *1.8.1 here)
00:10 VanessaE (
00:10 kahrl ah, so that *could* be the reason
00:10 kahrl I use 1.8.0
00:10 RealBadAngel Sokomine, here?
00:10 RealBadAngel Sokomine, whats ur version?
00:12 paramat okay hmmmm it's very approximate but just works https://github.com/paramat/​minetest/commits/mgv5spawn let me know if you want this rebased and squashed
00:19 paramat https://cdn.mediacru.sh/LRUAdm4ixTAX.png hmmmmm i can make biome surface continuous at y = 47 in mgv5 by generating up to maxp.y + 1 or a little higher, dropping biomes and calculating light from there. let me know if you approve i might be able to do this in mgv7 also
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00:56 celeron55 Taoki: it's a possibility, but i don't think anyone is going to look into it anytime soon
00:56 Taoki celeron55: Ok. Since the problem is, all servers (unless hosted on an excellent connection) are very very laggy. This seems to be a weak spot more than I imagined
00:56 celeron55 the current protocol implementation is a temporary solution to which sapier sunk too much time into
00:57 Taoki It can take 3 minutes for a door to open when you click it even
00:57 Taoki I see
00:57 celeron55 i'm not interested in any explanations
00:57 Taoki Yeah... a solution is probably the important part. And this is sadly not a part of the code I'm good at...
00:59 Taoki I don't even know what the actual bottleneck is. Since well, other games simply preform better on a connection as fast. I thought that usind UDP and sending packets normally is all it takes, but I think I was wrong
00:59 celeron55 the networking wasn't laggy in that way when i last touched it, so you can blame some changes that have come after my work on it i guess
00:59 celeron55 people are incredibly lazy in testing stuff on anything else than their own setups
01:00 Taoki Sone don't have a variety of machines either, just one computer.
01:00 Taoki Anyway, the first part should be finding the bottleneck I guess
01:00 Taoki BTW: The problem exists for several months. Not something I just noticed now. Was the same way an year ago at best
01:00 RealBadAngel im not, i have to test my changes on many setups, and always there will pop one with another incopatible
01:01 celeron55 it's probably just tuned to perform properly on a fast connection and does not have means to configure whatever-thing-that-might-be at runtime
01:01 celeron55 maybe there's a setting that can be changed, maybe not
01:02 Taoki I looked in minetest.conf.example. Only found the server step, and how many packets to send per said step (default is 1024)
01:03 Taoki Maybe that default should be lowered? What if only 16 packets at most are sent for instance? The high number could be clogging the network
01:03 celeron55 no idea, maybe you can find it out
01:04 RealBadAngel Taoki, you should talk to VanessaE, OldCoder or Megaf for example. They have played a lot with server settings
01:04 celeron55 or maybe someone can just prepare an up-to-date enet patch and somehow prove that it is indeed working better in every way
01:04 Taoki I heard enet is times faster. Totally hope that can be implemented!
01:05 RealBadAngel Taoki, servers are overloaded with stuff which clients should handle in the first place
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01:05 RealBadAngel lighting, inventory mods etc
01:06 RealBadAngel until this changes you can dream of servers speed
01:06 Taoki Possibly, sometimes
01:06 RealBadAngel not sometimes, its reality
01:06 VanessaE RealBadAngel: I haven't fiddled with server settings in a while, but server *lag* has gone up a lot in the last months, even on the light-weight servers.  I have no idea why
01:07 RealBadAngel mt is growing, there are more players
01:07 Taoki This issue will probably drag MT behind a lot. I'd personally suggest listing it as a top priority
01:07 RealBadAngel if on dstep server is doing something for every player, then sends it it costs the time of it
01:08 Taoki I mean, if you need to push for 5 minutes into an unloaded area until a chunk appears there, walk 10 blocks then wait another 5 minutes for the next chunk, multiplayer can just as well be considered "on hold"
01:08 RealBadAngel im doing what i can do for client rendering, to speed it up
01:09 RealBadAngel but i know little bout servers code
01:09 Taoki Thanks. Low FPS is a problem too, though IMO not the highest one. Still an important thing though
01:09 RealBadAngel Taoki, i saw 1400 fps lately
01:09 Taoki o.o
01:09 RealBadAngel so dont call it low ;)
01:09 Taoki With what draw distance though? :)
01:10 RealBadAngel ask Zeno
01:10 Taoki Likely not more than 30 blocks or so
01:10 Taoki ok
01:10 RealBadAngel he broke that record
01:10 RealBadAngel next one was around 1k fps
01:10 VanessaE yeah and I still can't break 20 fps at spawn on my Survival server, let alone 60 in most places
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01:11 RealBadAngel things will improve greatly soon
01:12 RealBadAngel see digging/placing nodes now and before
01:12 RealBadAngel cracks will get even better speedup
01:13 RealBadAngel then when i got everything separated and will be able to change everything to use tangent space
01:13 shadowzone RealBadAngel: sounds like a pretty big Change.
01:14 RealBadAngel then minimalize server's lighting code just to lightlevel at node
01:14 RealBadAngel and just turn on the lights
01:15 RealBadAngel also i will be able to use many built in irrlicht features
01:15 RealBadAngel just when i get rid of that lighting system
01:16 Taoki Can't wait for real lighting <3
01:17 RealBadAngel Taoki, it works great, http://i.imgur.com/wHjL1dJ.png
01:18 Taoki OMG, ince!
01:18 Taoki nice
01:19 Taoki Is the sun lighting on nodes in that screenshot also dynamic?
01:19 shadowzone Wow
01:20 Taoki indeed
01:20 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/b3usu4B.png http://i.imgur.com/T8wf2tp.png
01:21 RealBadAngel compare those two
01:21 OldCoder On server settings I have done a lot of bettings
01:21 RealBadAngel and you become a poet? ;)
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01:22 Taoki RealBadAngel: Is light level culling working though?
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01:27 RealBadAngel Taoki, current light system is expensive, working only for cubes
01:27 Taoki I see
01:28 RealBadAngel and kills the servers
01:28 RealBadAngel to make story short, its a disease
01:28 Taoki :<
01:28 RealBadAngel could be accepted for singleplayer
01:29 RealBadAngel and non developed worlds
01:29 Taoki I hope it at least makes it in as an option, whether disabled by default or not
01:30 RealBadAngel there wont be any option
01:30 RealBadAngel old system will be gone
01:30 RealBadAngel you wont miss it
01:30 Taoki ok. Hope it works out like this and it's not slower
01:31 Taoki Still, did you discover how to keep sunlight from shining in caves with it? Or torches through walls
01:32 RealBadAngel a) simple logic - light level (simplified current lighting system will be handy) b) i dont have to, its a matter of engine
01:33 Taoki ok
01:33 RealBadAngel we are using advanced 3d engine
01:33 Taoki Oh god... if realtime shadows (via light cutting) would be possible too <3
01:33 Taoki yeah
01:33 RealBadAngel why folks are thinking we have to reinvent the wheel all the time??
01:34 RealBadAngel taoki, dl freeminer
01:34 RealBadAngel proller enabled shadows for entities already
01:34 Taoki RealBadAngel: Just tried it. Sadly it's very resource intensive, laggy and buggy :x
01:34 Taoki o.o
01:34 Taoki Awesome!
01:34 RealBadAngel so players cast shadows
01:34 RealBadAngel as any other item or entity
01:35 RealBadAngel but i dont want it yet
01:35 RealBadAngel without real lights
01:36 Taoki yeah... point would be for nodes to do it too
01:36 RealBadAngel exactly
01:37 RealBadAngel when we decide to say Fiat Lux, its gonna happen
01:38 RealBadAngel but until then, we have a lot of work to optimze or rebuild current code
01:39 RealBadAngel we have to change "good enough" code to "fast enough" one
01:40 Taoki Yeah
01:40 Taoki I wish all major issues could be fixed. So many though
01:40 Taoki Like the network code
01:41 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/987e565eeb80f0fe2825267de728f8a1989a051d
01:41 RealBadAngel see this for example
01:41 RealBadAngel even keys handling could be made 10x faster
01:42 RealBadAngel my thought is that we have met here codebase
01:42 RealBadAngel well founded and working
01:42 RealBadAngel now its time to optimize it and make it running
01:44 RealBadAngel new features are rare and are matter of personal tastes rather
01:44 RealBadAngel what we should aim now is just pure speed
01:44 Taoki Indeed
01:45 RealBadAngel Rome wasnt built in a day ;)
01:45 RealBadAngel it will take some time :)
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01:46 Taoki I think performance is a great problem in MT. After it, I think the look and feel doesn't fully inspire stability yet
01:47 Taoki In lack of better words, I don't get quite a nice feel when on every server I go, there's pieces of water and dirt and wood floating all over the place, as if the world is a mess. Combined with lag and not-perfect-quality textures... well it's a bit demotivating :P
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01:49 RealBadAngel thing will get better, just be patient
01:49 RealBadAngel and meanwhile, code something nice :)
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01:51 Taoki I shall over time :)
01:51 Taoki Hi OldCoder
01:52 OldCoder Taoki o/
01:57 RealBadAngel kahrl, on?
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02:38 kaeza here's the mumble patch, fixed for at least MinGW32 compilation: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/6adb86d42483990882d3
02:38 kaeza needs testing on MSVC, but I don't think it will have any problems
02:41 kaeza (also merged the definition from game.h to game.cpp, since it's only used by class Game and it requires windows.h, thus avoiding header inclusion bloat)
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02:42 hmmmm where is snprintf defined?
02:43 kaeza stdio.h
02:43 hmmmm on which platform did you test this
02:43 kaeza MinGW32...
02:44 hmmmm is this mumble thing supposed to work on anything else aside from windows?
02:44 kaeza Linux via shm
02:44 hmmmm I am 85% sure that won't compile under Linux
02:44 hmmmm you'll be missing snprintf()
02:45 kaeza I didn't touch anything related besides adding an #ifdef WIN32 (and moving the shared mem struct in to game.cpp)
02:46 kaeza the original patch is by iqualfragile, and AFAIK, it worked for him
02:46 hmmmm see, snprintf is a C++11 feature
02:46 Zeno` snprintf is c99 though
02:47 hmmmm or C99
02:47 hmmmm but C++03 (which we use) doesn't have snprintf
02:47 Zeno` really? that's bizarre
02:47 hmmmm yea
02:47 hmmmm try it
02:48 hmmmm or maybe it's just my compiler
02:48 kaeza well, did you try the patch?
02:48 hmmmm does gcc ever change the default target standard?
02:49 hmmmm no, i have not.
02:49 hmmmm i'm just saying, right off the bat, it looks like it might not work for that reason
02:50 Zeno` works fine
02:50 hmmmm also, does this mean we're adding a hard dependency to SysV resources by using shm_*?
02:50 hmmmm see I thought our target was base POSIX
02:50 kaeza maybe add ENABLE_MUMBLE or so?
02:50 Zeno` $ g++ -Wall -std=c++03 test.cpp
02:50 hmmmm that would be a good idea
02:50 Zeno` on http://codepad.org/lVtpaG4q
02:51 hmmmm Zeno`, hmm, doesn't work for me under FreeBSD 9.x
02:52 hmmmm ahh....ermm
02:52 hmmmm nevermind
02:52 hmmmm cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-std=c++03"
02:52 Zeno` :D
02:53 hmmmm well this is interesting
02:53 hmmmm does this mean minetest adheres to C++98?
02:56 hmmmm nope... rather, gnu++98
02:56 Zeno` most likely I'd say
02:56 hmmmm i knew there was a reason why snprintf works
02:57 hmmmm meh... who gives a crap.  we'll deal with platform incompatibility issues as they pop up
02:59 kaeza I'll just add ENABLE_MUMBLE (defaulting to 0, as similar options). if somebody wants mumble and the platform is not supported, well, point them to the sources :P
03:00 kaeza this is still WIP, though. would hope there was more people 'round here with "uncommon" platforms for testing
03:00 Zeno` where is the patch?
03:02 hmmmm well it has style issues
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03:05 kaeza hmmmm, besides style issues, anything else?
03:05 kaeza (what style issues, BTW?)
03:06 hmmmm well i'm not sure if game.cpp is the appropriate place for platform-dependent things like that to begin with
03:07 hmmmm first you have the members of that struct named using the useless kind of hungarian notation
03:07 hmmmm second, LinkedMem isn't very descriptive at all, it should be something more like MumbleLinkedMem
03:08 hmmmm third, you have spaces in between the member names and their types
03:08 hmmmm fourth, even worse, you inconsistently apply your own style
03:09 hmmmm fifth, you define members with UINT32 and u32 as separate for win32 for a reason i'm not really sure about
03:09 kaeza eh forget it
03:09 hmmmm sixth, mumblelm should not be global, but if it were a global, it needs to be prefixed with g_
03:09 hmmmm it should be part of the application's recyclable state (see: part of Game)
03:10 hmmmm seventh, you don't have any code to deinitialize the mumble link
03:10 hmmmm eigth, you don't indent nested preprocessor directives
03:10 hmmmm the preprocessor directives are interspersed between declarations and generally not properly placed in accordance with the rest of the code
03:10 kaeza alright, I'll let iqual deal with this stuff
03:10 kaeza tata
03:12 hmmmm wait!  there's more
03:17 Zeno` free knives?
03:17 VanessaE Zeno`: only if you pay an extra 5 bucks in shipping
03:17 Zeno` I'll pass
03:17 VanessaE but...but... they're TITANIUM!
03:18 hmmmm ceramic knives are the new hotness
03:18 VanessaE hmmmm: got one years ago from a thrift store.  zzzz. :)
03:19 Zeno` I have stone knives... no fancy ceramic or titanium
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05:35 Zeno` kahrl, I've added WIP tag to refactor_main
05:37 Zeno` I've addressed your comments, but not the ones related to ClientLauncher class. I figure it's better to get that completely class'ified before removing WIP
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09:22 Zeno` hmmm has checked and agreed to #1810. Just want to make sure it's still ok to merge or if anyone has any last minute comments
09:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1810 -- Fix profiler values not being updated (F6) and not being logged by Zeno-
09:27 Megaf so that's why my profiler never actually worked on my server
09:28 Zeno` probably not Megaf (it's client only)
09:29 Zeno` For when you press f6
09:32 Megaf oh, so nevermind
09:32 Megaf sorry about that
09:33 Megaf Anyway, well done people, my server havent had a single crash for almost one month now
09:33 Megaf Minetest is much more stable now a days, at least on the server side
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10:35 kilbith hello, master
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11:25 RealBadAngel kahrl, i got the patch almost ready, just need to disable waving at hand
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11:55 kaeza I don't know what caused it, probably kahrl_'s patch, probably something else I missed, but I'm getting 30FPS with view distance of 80, while I previously got the same framerate for half (or even a third) of the distance :D
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11:58 RealBadAngel there were a few patches lately that improved the performance
11:59 RealBadAngel meshnodes patch, digging/placing one
11:59 Zeno` and the_game
11:59 Zeno` they all added up
11:59 RealBadAngel yes
11:59 RealBadAngel more to come
12:03 Zeno` yay :)
12:03 RealBadAngel what?
12:03 Zeno` "more to come"
12:04 RealBadAngel ah that, ofc
12:04 Zeno` I have a couple more as well, so if you have more to come then this is a great thing
12:04 RealBadAngel i have ready wieldmesh improvements, but that damn waving
12:05 Zeno` I have no idea why I don't see those wieldmesh glitches
12:05 Zeno` it's very weird
12:05 RealBadAngel propably version of irrlicht
12:05 Zeno` I managed to reproduce on Windows with DirectX (but OpenGL worked)
12:05 RealBadAngel but thats only a part of my code, applying there shaders is even more important
12:05 Zeno` yeah
12:10 Zeno` wow (at notice)
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12:41 kilbith Zeno` should be OP since he's a core-dev, right ?
12:44 Amaz s/OP/voice
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13:04 guest365 when will be come version 0.4.11?
13:05 Amaz The rumour is that it will come this month...
13:05 guest365 thanks
13:10 RealBadAngel i have poted that notice on Groupon Poland FB profile
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18:32 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1677
18:32 rubenwardy Add name of node pointed at to debug
18:32 rubenwardy How can I get the texture that is currently being pointed to?
18:34 Calinou in Lua that is possible
18:34 Calinou in C++, probably, but I can't help
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18:36 rubenwardy Nevermind.
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23:10 RealBadAngel yikes, i think i finished that wield changes
23:22 VanessaE nice
23:30 RealBadAngel just some fine tuning left
23:31 RealBadAngel it took me way longer than i thought
23:31 RealBadAngel many things were completely broken

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